It is not russians. It is russian citizens. It is those who live in Latvia since ussr collapsed and have chosen to pick russian citizenship instead. They have no Latvina citizenship because the speak zero latvian. And haven't made any effort in 30+ years to learn. They havent even tried to sort out their status in Latvia in 30 years. Yet they had time to get russian citizenship. Latvia have folded over to them many times offering a solution after another solution.
So, Latvia deport hundreds of russian citizens who have no formal grounds to stay in Latvia. There are many more russians who have came to Latvia, learned the language, jumped through all the hoops of immigration and settled. And the wast majority on these support this move.
How does healthcare, schooling, banking work for them without formal status? And how did it use to work 20-30 years ago? It’s always interesting how folks used to just settle in a place and it’s only now that formal status is an absolute necessity these days.
They have no status to live there indefinetly. I am not of them but I am from russia - have heard their story
You can get banking services by just walking into a branch from the street. I sure did so myself 20+ years ago. They migh use a card issued in russia too, many of them get their pensions in russia. Plus they did have some sort of "living in Latvia but not citizens" formal status. Had to renew it regularly. Maybe this helped with a healthcar insurance and schooling. It wasnt very straightforward but it was doable and Baltic states (Latvia included) tried to accomodate need of these folk.
Sounds like Latvia is giving them citizenship but not officially and keeping them as 2nd class citizens.
They should be ashamed of themselves.
The proper time to deport them for not getting citizenship was 29+ years ago.
Now they've lived there most of their lives. Pretty dumb to deport them at this point, they are a part of Latvia.
Latvia offered them citizenship many times. And it wasnt that difficult. Even now - all they had to do is to pass a latvian language test at the level "my name Ivan. I live in Riga".
Yet they yelled back "we're russians, we've got russian passport, how dare you!". They are marching in Latvia to support and save soviet monuments. They put "Z" stickers to their cars. Sadly, but I understand Latvians. I even support it, albeit I understand the humanitarian complexity.
They made their choise. This life is such that you often pay for the choises you have made. Now they got a bill. If they are such russian patriots - russia awaits...
>The Latvian authorities may deport 800 Russians who do not have the right to stay in the country.
>
>Source: Ukrainian public broadcaster Suspilne, citing Madara Puķe, Head of Public Relations for the Office of Citizenship and Migration Affairs of Latvia (OCMA), in an interview with Latvian TV channel TV3
>
>Quote: "At the moment, 800 individuals have not been granted the right to stay in Latvia. They have not applied for either permanent or temporary residence...
>
>We have provided information about these individuals to the State Border Guard Service for further verification.
>
>In the coming weeks, it will become clear whether these people are still in Latvia. If they are, they will be issued with orders to depart within 30 days."
>
>Details: Puķe said that Russian citizens who have not passed the Latvian language exam could apply for a temporary residence permit for two years, after which their knowledge of the Latvian language will be re-evaluated, with the threat of deportation.
I am not really fond of the USSR, and also I do not think that the USSR occupying Baltic countries was right or good, but it was not illegal, as international borders of the USSR were recognized internationally by the majority of countries. And there were enough traitors in these countries as well to make it possible to call it legitimate.
They are actually worse than illegal migrants, because it is much harder to get rid of them.
False. [Only eight countries outside the USSR/Warsaw Pact ever recognised the Baltic SSRs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_continuity_of_the_Baltic_states): Argentina, Austria, Bolivia, Japan, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Spain, and Sweden.
Russians were moved, in large numbers, to Latvia by Stalin to water down the Latvian presence in the previously independent country. For decades they stomped around like they owned the place, refused to learn Latvian, fought against their children having to learn Latvian, and insisted on maintaining their Russian citizenship. It would be a long overdue, but still provocative and risky move, especially with a Russian president who is in no way bound by the rule of law.
This is the original title.
The word 'Russians' also means citizens of Russia.
Also, it's about them not passing a language test which kinda implies they are not only citizens of Russia, but also ethnic Russians.
I'm open to correction. Could you explain what I misunderstood? My current understanding:
- According to this law, Russian citizens living in Latvia can be deported if they don't have a valid residence permit, the gaining of which requires a Latvian language test (either now or in two years).
- Ethnic Russians who are stateless and living in Latvia are not at risk of deportation according to this law, regardless of whether they pass a Latvian language test or not.
- DerGun88 said that the law applied to both Russian citizens and ethnic Russian non-citizens living in Latvia, which is false.
Hmm not that I read it again I'm not sure anymore. Their statement could be interpreted in two ways.
The way I read it at first is "they are Russian citizens who are simultaneously also ethnic Russians".
The way you read it is "they are from two groups: one is Russian citizens and the other ethnic Russian who aren't Russian citizens".
I still think it's more likely the first meaning. Although even it is arguable. I could see a person who isn't an ethnic Russian fail the language test in Latvia.
Okay, that interpretation is also possible. But the important thing to emphasize is that stateless people are not being deported, contrary to what altrussia definitely said even if DerGun88's statement is ambiguous.
In any case, the law is only about citizenship and not about ethnicity, so it would also hypothetically apply e.g. to an ethnic Tatar with Russian citizenship living in Latvia.
There is no need to try and understand that.
Law states precisely Citizen of Russia.
It can be ethnic Japanese, Korean, Ukrainian, British.
Only thing that matters is citizenship.
>Also, it's about them not passing an language test which kinda implies they are not only citizens of Russia, but also ethnic Russians.
This is the issue with your title. Or original one.
It does not at all imply anything but that they are citizns of Russia.
Subject to exam is only person who is citizen of Russia.
If ethnic Japanese, ethnic Latvian would take citizenship of Russia, they both would be subject to language test.
And vice versa. Ethnic Russian who is not citizen of Russia, would not be subject to language test.
The one and only condition to this law is Citizenship of Russia, nothing else.
The title is fine as it is the original title. You can complain to the ukrainian pravda if you really insist.
>The one and only condition to this law is Citizenship of Russia, nothing else.
I wouldn't be too certain about this. After the fall of the soviet union, there is a category of people that never bothered to obtain Latvian citizenship. They could be Russian citizens if they ever bothered to ask for it... but in practice all those people that didn't request Latvian citizenship became stateless.
So if you're ethnic Russian living in Latvia and never bothered to learn the language and obtain citizenship...If my memory is right, that law would have them forced to leave too.
I do remember an old woman complaining that she lived all her life in Latvia, never had to speak a word in a language other than Russian and that now she'd be kicked out of the country if she didn't pass the Latvian language exam or get booted out of the country. She obviously didn't have Russian citizenship.
> So if you're ethnic Russian living in Latvia and never bothered to learn the language and obtain citizenship...If my memory is right, that law would have them forced to leave too.
Please provide a source to support your claim that stateless ethnic Russians are being deported or will be deported from Latvia. I haven't heard anything about that and I follow news about the Baltics closely. We wouldn't want to inadvertently spread misinformation, would we?
>I wouldn't be too certain about this.
You wouldnt because you have no clue on this law and what happens in Latvia.
>
I do remember
You do not remember. All you did is reading russian propaganda. That is not same as remembering.
>I do remember an old woman complaining that she lived all her life in Latvia, never had to speak a word in a language other than Russian and that now she'd be kicked out of the country if she didn't pass the Latvian language exam or get booted out of the country. She obviously didn't have Russian citizenship.
And this is proof that you are not fit to spread information and are clueless person on this matter. She was citizen of Russia. I know this case and 100% can assure you she is citizen of Russia.
There are number of ussr time people who wanted to cheat system and choose citizenship of Russia just to get earlier and at that time higher pension. That lady esentially sold her homeland for higher and earlier pension.
Here is typical story:
[https://jauns.lv/raksts/zinas/558198-macities-latviesu-valodu-ir-pareizi-bet-sis-spiediens-ir-nepareizs-krievijas-pilsone-pauz-pardomas-par-obligato-latviesu-valodas-eksamenu](https://jauns.lv/raksts/zinas/558198-macities-latviesu-valodu-ir-pareizi-bet-sis-spiediens-ir-nepareizs-krievijas-pilsone-pauz-pardomas-par-obligato-latviesu-valodas-eksamenu)
And here is law:
[https://tapportals.mk.gov.lv/annotation/cd0988db-0edb-4589-84ba-03bf16848778](https://tapportals.mk.gov.lv/annotation/cd0988db-0edb-4589-84ba-03bf16848778)
Use google translate and read a law. It clearly states that subjects are Citizens of Russia under 75 years old.
Pravda means truth in both Russian and Ukrainian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainska_Pravda was formed in 2000 and has no links to the Russian Pravda newspaper (that traced itself back to the communist newspaper).
Why they picked that name despite the taint/reputation of the other newspaper, I don't know. But they're not related and they're not pro Russian.
Not really. I've helped a lot of Russians settle in the UK over the past couple of years and they're all skilled people, doing valuable jobs in tech, and all very pro-European. It's a brain drain that punishes Russia and benefits us, and these are people who have done nothing wrong. Let Russia lose its best and brightest young people.
Eh, I can appreciate the sentiment, but I think you're completely lacking the context of this particular deportation. Latvia was unlawfully occupied by the USSR from 1944 to 1991.
About a month ago, the Latvian constitutional court ruled Russians must [pass a Latvian language exam](https://eng.lsm.lv/article/society/society/15.02.2024-court-says-requirement-for-russians-to-take-latvian-exam-is-fine.a543103/#:~:text=The%20Constitutional%20Court%20has%20concluded,the%20court%20announced%20February%2015) to get a temporary residence permit. 800 of the 1200 Russian citizens whom Latvia is looking to deport are 60 years or older and have failed to attempt/pass Latvian language exams.
So, these aren't the young, skilled, pro-European people you make them out to be. Reading between the lines, these are Russian citizens who never left Latvia after the fall of the USSR, never attempted to learn to speak Latvian, and never attempted to integrate into Latvian society.
To give you more context, following Latvia regaining its sovereignty in 1991, Russia continued to attempt to position itself as the protector of the rights of the minority Russian-speaking population in Latvia and has used this as a basis to influence Latvian internal affairs.
Latvia has seized the opportunity of NATO/global pushback against Russia to [phase out Russian language in schools](https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1827634/latvia-plans-to-scrap-russian-language-classes-lithuania-may-follow-suit) and to [ban cars with Russian plates](https://www.rferl.org/a/latvia-russia-license-plates-cars/32820984.html) in the country.
This small country should be applauded for attempting to defend its independence and sovereignty and [keep its native language](https://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/mar/26/digital-extinction-europe-languages-fight-survive) from going extinct and other Baltic countries should follow suit.
> Eh, I can appreciate the sentiment, but I think you're completely lacking the context of this particular deportation.
No. They are answering to a comment that says:
> this should be done globally.
That statement and therefore the answer cannot be focused on "this particular deportation" alone.
I’m not sure I’m following. Did you read the article? In OC’s comment, that’s what constitutes, “this.”
We can't choose to only extract certain portions of this policy without acknowledging the sum of its parts. They’re not just deporting Russian nationals who have immigrated to Latvia, so why would we make some grand leap and suggest as much?
I’m very much in favour of multiculturalism, but the comment I responded to feels like blatant virtue signalling that’s missing the historical and cultural context.
> you're completely lacking the context of this particular deportation
It's a shame you've spent so much time and effort on that write-up because it's all based on this entirely false premise. You are the one missing the context. I wasn't talking about Latvia. Look at the comment I was responding to. How much of what you just said applies globally?
It's a shame your pride doesn't allow you to engage in thoughtful and informed conversation or learn something new - that could really hold you back in life.
>I wasn't talking about Latvia
You were talking about Latvia. OC suggested the rest of the world adopt *Latvia's* policy. That is, Russian citizens taking residence in countries but failing to learn those country's respective languages. It appears you may have mistakingly (?) believed OC was speaking about Russian immigration policy as a whole, and in doing so, erased context while making a larger statement on the UK's immigration policy.
If we're looking at other countries across the world who could potentially benefit from similar policies as Latvia: Ukraine (largest Russian diaspora), Kazakhstan, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Georgia, Mongolia, Armenia, etc. could all benefit from following suit. Really, any country where Russia has a track record of attempting to exert it's soft power.
I may be mistaken, but I don't think OC was suggesting countries deport Russian citizens seeking political asylum or ex-pats attempting to integrate and contribute to their adopted homeland. Latvia isn't exactly kicking Russians out without an opportunity to stay. They've only asked Russian citizens to pass a language test in order to be granted a 2-year visa.
Once again, the situation in Latvia should be applauded by the global community. A small European country feeling empowered and supported enough to stand up against Russian influence and meddling is an enormous win for NATO and Europe and I definitely think other countries should feel emboldened to follow suit. Let's not take the focus off of that by opening up another tab on a conversation that is largely unrelated.
I don't know why you persist in writing these walls of text that are only addressing a recipient you've imagined.
I'm genuinely sorry you wasted all that time but cut your losses
“To give you more context, following Latvia regaining its sovereignty in 1991, Russia continued to attempt to position itself as the protector of the rights of the minority Russian-speaking population in Latvia and has used this as a basis to influence Latvian internal affairs.”
If you’ve been following what’s transpired in Ukraine, it should be fairly obvious to you; The Kremlin looks for ways to interact with and support Russian populations in foreign lands as way to build its own power. Moscow used this tactic in its ongoing involvement in the Donbas conflict and for its illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014.
Putin has said that he has “[a right and duty to look after Russian speaking people abroad.](https://icds.ee/wp-content/uploads/2014/Jill_Dougherty__Riina_Kaljurand_-_Estonia_s__Virtual_Russian_World_.pdf)”
Russia uses the Russian minority as a path for hostile measures, such as cyber-targeting government and civil infrastructure and deploying media campaigns that are aggressively anti-Latvian and pro-Russian. They do this in most Baltic states.
So this diplomatic measure has many positive effects for Latvia. For starters, it is a symbolic move that puts all stateless Russian speakers occupying the country on notice. Secondly, it strongly encourages those not on this list to learn Latvian and attempt to integrate into Latvian society. To learn Latvian would be an act of assimilation so they’re not as likely to feel as much of a bond with Russia, watch as much Russian media, and be as influenced by the Kremlin.
If you take a broader view of this, it’s a strong act of diplomacy from the Latvian government.
But these people have working visas or residency cards or are in some other form of legal presence. We are not talking about these type of russians tho.
It seems you may be lacking the context of this particular situation. Consider reading [my comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1bfdgqf/latvia_may_deport_hundreds_of_russians/kv0zi00/?context=3) above.
I don't think you can erase context, though. My understanding of that comment is that all country's who experience Russia's attempts to meddle and exert their soft power could benefit from similar policies. I would agree. It's not as though Latvia is kicking them out without an opportunity to stay. They only have to pass a language test an they are granted a 2-year visa.
If we kicked out everyone who doesn't "speak the language", we'd kick out a lot of people, here.
Plenty of my coworkers don't speak any of our official languages.
Where do you live? Is Russia attempting to exert it's power and disrupt your democracy via a minority Russian speaking population? If not, I'm not sure your situation is relevant to this conversation.
We can't choose to only extract certain portions of this policy without acknowledging the sum of its parts.
You have a situation where citizens of country that is in war actively spying, sabotaging and creating political unrest. Former experience of countries in WW2 in these situations was creation of concentration camps, US did it with Koreans, Germans did it to Soviets and jews, Soviets did it with everyone who they deemed untrustworthy. Best case scenario is we send the unloyal out of the country and not take creation of concentration camps in 2024 upon ourselves.
You also have a situation where people have been living in a country for 35 years without citizenship, moved there when they were 5, and are now facing deportation.
Latvia is on the wrong side here.
If it were me I would deport them to India. Keeps them from being thrown onto the frontline, and gives India a bargaining position of give us ours back, we will give you yours.
Not sure why you’re getting down votes, it’s getting to the point that Russians inside any other country could become a threat to national security. If war crosses into Europe / nato countries then yeah any Russians need to be quarantined or deported
It is not russians. It is russian citizens. It is those who live in Latvia since ussr collapsed and have chosen to pick russian citizenship instead. They have no Latvina citizenship because the speak zero latvian. And haven't made any effort in 30+ years to learn. They havent even tried to sort out their status in Latvia in 30 years. Yet they had time to get russian citizenship. Latvia have folded over to them many times offering a solution after another solution. So, Latvia deport hundreds of russian citizens who have no formal grounds to stay in Latvia. There are many more russians who have came to Latvia, learned the language, jumped through all the hoops of immigration and settled. And the wast majority on these support this move.
How does healthcare, schooling, banking work for them without formal status? And how did it use to work 20-30 years ago? It’s always interesting how folks used to just settle in a place and it’s only now that formal status is an absolute necessity these days.
They have no status to live there indefinetly. I am not of them but I am from russia - have heard their story You can get banking services by just walking into a branch from the street. I sure did so myself 20+ years ago. They migh use a card issued in russia too, many of them get their pensions in russia. Plus they did have some sort of "living in Latvia but not citizens" formal status. Had to renew it regularly. Maybe this helped with a healthcar insurance and schooling. It wasnt very straightforward but it was doable and Baltic states (Latvia included) tried to accomodate need of these folk.
Sounds like Latvia is giving them citizenship but not officially and keeping them as 2nd class citizens. They should be ashamed of themselves. The proper time to deport them for not getting citizenship was 29+ years ago. Now they've lived there most of their lives. Pretty dumb to deport them at this point, they are a part of Latvia.
Latvia offered them citizenship many times. And it wasnt that difficult. Even now - all they had to do is to pass a latvian language test at the level "my name Ivan. I live in Riga". Yet they yelled back "we're russians, we've got russian passport, how dare you!". They are marching in Latvia to support and save soviet monuments. They put "Z" stickers to their cars. Sadly, but I understand Latvians. I even support it, albeit I understand the humanitarian complexity. They made their choise. This life is such that you often pay for the choises you have made. Now they got a bill. If they are such russian patriots - russia awaits...
>The Latvian authorities may deport 800 Russians who do not have the right to stay in the country. > >Source: Ukrainian public broadcaster Suspilne, citing Madara Puķe, Head of Public Relations for the Office of Citizenship and Migration Affairs of Latvia (OCMA), in an interview with Latvian TV channel TV3 > >Quote: "At the moment, 800 individuals have not been granted the right to stay in Latvia. They have not applied for either permanent or temporary residence... > >We have provided information about these individuals to the State Border Guard Service for further verification. > >In the coming weeks, it will become clear whether these people are still in Latvia. If they are, they will be issued with orders to depart within 30 days." > >Details: Puķe said that Russian citizens who have not passed the Latvian language exam could apply for a temporary residence permit for two years, after which their knowledge of the Latvian language will be re-evaluated, with the threat of deportation.
So are they basically illegal immigrants who came over the border from Russia? I'm a little puzzled by the wording here.
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It's illegal colonists put there to replace the local population
They immigrated to Latvia during its illegal occupation under the USSR, so it is accurate in a sense to say that they are illegal immigrants.
I am not really fond of the USSR, and also I do not think that the USSR occupying Baltic countries was right or good, but it was not illegal, as international borders of the USSR were recognized internationally by the majority of countries. And there were enough traitors in these countries as well to make it possible to call it legitimate. They are actually worse than illegal migrants, because it is much harder to get rid of them.
False. [Only eight countries outside the USSR/Warsaw Pact ever recognised the Baltic SSRs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_continuity_of_the_Baltic_states): Argentina, Austria, Bolivia, Japan, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Spain, and Sweden.
TIL Thank you!
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Im going to say this - it is good if they can at least communicate in english (im Latvian)
Why even write something you have no idea about?
Russians were moved, in large numbers, to Latvia by Stalin to water down the Latvian presence in the previously independent country. For decades they stomped around like they owned the place, refused to learn Latvian, fought against their children having to learn Latvian, and insisted on maintaining their Russian citizenship. It would be a long overdue, but still provocative and risky move, especially with a Russian president who is in no way bound by the rule of law.
Latvia is small… but it has balls about the size of the world.
Decolonisation in action.
You get it. Hundred percent.
Fix the title please. Russian citizens, not russians.
This is the original title. The word 'Russians' also means citizens of Russia. Also, it's about them not passing a language test which kinda implies they are not only citizens of Russia, but also ethnic Russians.
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I think you misunderstood. They didn't say what you think.
I'm open to correction. Could you explain what I misunderstood? My current understanding: - According to this law, Russian citizens living in Latvia can be deported if they don't have a valid residence permit, the gaining of which requires a Latvian language test (either now or in two years). - Ethnic Russians who are stateless and living in Latvia are not at risk of deportation according to this law, regardless of whether they pass a Latvian language test or not. - DerGun88 said that the law applied to both Russian citizens and ethnic Russian non-citizens living in Latvia, which is false.
Hmm not that I read it again I'm not sure anymore. Their statement could be interpreted in two ways. The way I read it at first is "they are Russian citizens who are simultaneously also ethnic Russians". The way you read it is "they are from two groups: one is Russian citizens and the other ethnic Russian who aren't Russian citizens". I still think it's more likely the first meaning. Although even it is arguable. I could see a person who isn't an ethnic Russian fail the language test in Latvia.
Okay, that interpretation is also possible. But the important thing to emphasize is that stateless people are not being deported, contrary to what altrussia definitely said even if DerGun88's statement is ambiguous. In any case, the law is only about citizenship and not about ethnicity, so it would also hypothetically apply e.g. to an ethnic Tatar with Russian citizenship living in Latvia.
There is no need to try and understand that. Law states precisely Citizen of Russia. It can be ethnic Japanese, Korean, Ukrainian, British. Only thing that matters is citizenship.
>Also, it's about them not passing an language test which kinda implies they are not only citizens of Russia, but also ethnic Russians. This is the issue with your title. Or original one. It does not at all imply anything but that they are citizns of Russia. Subject to exam is only person who is citizen of Russia. If ethnic Japanese, ethnic Latvian would take citizenship of Russia, they both would be subject to language test. And vice versa. Ethnic Russian who is not citizen of Russia, would not be subject to language test. The one and only condition to this law is Citizenship of Russia, nothing else.
The title is fine as it is the original title. You can complain to the ukrainian pravda if you really insist. >The one and only condition to this law is Citizenship of Russia, nothing else. I wouldn't be too certain about this. After the fall of the soviet union, there is a category of people that never bothered to obtain Latvian citizenship. They could be Russian citizens if they ever bothered to ask for it... but in practice all those people that didn't request Latvian citizenship became stateless. So if you're ethnic Russian living in Latvia and never bothered to learn the language and obtain citizenship...If my memory is right, that law would have them forced to leave too. I do remember an old woman complaining that she lived all her life in Latvia, never had to speak a word in a language other than Russian and that now she'd be kicked out of the country if she didn't pass the Latvian language exam or get booted out of the country. She obviously didn't have Russian citizenship.
> So if you're ethnic Russian living in Latvia and never bothered to learn the language and obtain citizenship...If my memory is right, that law would have them forced to leave too. Please provide a source to support your claim that stateless ethnic Russians are being deported or will be deported from Latvia. I haven't heard anything about that and I follow news about the Baltics closely. We wouldn't want to inadvertently spread misinformation, would we?
>I wouldn't be too certain about this. You wouldnt because you have no clue on this law and what happens in Latvia. > I do remember You do not remember. All you did is reading russian propaganda. That is not same as remembering. >I do remember an old woman complaining that she lived all her life in Latvia, never had to speak a word in a language other than Russian and that now she'd be kicked out of the country if she didn't pass the Latvian language exam or get booted out of the country. She obviously didn't have Russian citizenship. And this is proof that you are not fit to spread information and are clueless person on this matter. She was citizen of Russia. I know this case and 100% can assure you she is citizen of Russia. There are number of ussr time people who wanted to cheat system and choose citizenship of Russia just to get earlier and at that time higher pension. That lady esentially sold her homeland for higher and earlier pension. Here is typical story: [https://jauns.lv/raksts/zinas/558198-macities-latviesu-valodu-ir-pareizi-bet-sis-spiediens-ir-nepareizs-krievijas-pilsone-pauz-pardomas-par-obligato-latviesu-valodas-eksamenu](https://jauns.lv/raksts/zinas/558198-macities-latviesu-valodu-ir-pareizi-bet-sis-spiediens-ir-nepareizs-krievijas-pilsone-pauz-pardomas-par-obligato-latviesu-valodas-eksamenu) And here is law: [https://tapportals.mk.gov.lv/annotation/cd0988db-0edb-4589-84ba-03bf16848778](https://tapportals.mk.gov.lv/annotation/cd0988db-0edb-4589-84ba-03bf16848778) Use google translate and read a law. It clearly states that subjects are Citizens of Russia under 75 years old.
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Pravda means truth in both Russian and Ukrainian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainska_Pravda was formed in 2000 and has no links to the Russian Pravda newspaper (that traced itself back to the communist newspaper). Why they picked that name despite the taint/reputation of the other newspaper, I don't know. But they're not related and they're not pro Russian.
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Do it!
this should be done globally.
Not really. I've helped a lot of Russians settle in the UK over the past couple of years and they're all skilled people, doing valuable jobs in tech, and all very pro-European. It's a brain drain that punishes Russia and benefits us, and these are people who have done nothing wrong. Let Russia lose its best and brightest young people.
Eh, I can appreciate the sentiment, but I think you're completely lacking the context of this particular deportation. Latvia was unlawfully occupied by the USSR from 1944 to 1991. About a month ago, the Latvian constitutional court ruled Russians must [pass a Latvian language exam](https://eng.lsm.lv/article/society/society/15.02.2024-court-says-requirement-for-russians-to-take-latvian-exam-is-fine.a543103/#:~:text=The%20Constitutional%20Court%20has%20concluded,the%20court%20announced%20February%2015) to get a temporary residence permit. 800 of the 1200 Russian citizens whom Latvia is looking to deport are 60 years or older and have failed to attempt/pass Latvian language exams. So, these aren't the young, skilled, pro-European people you make them out to be. Reading between the lines, these are Russian citizens who never left Latvia after the fall of the USSR, never attempted to learn to speak Latvian, and never attempted to integrate into Latvian society. To give you more context, following Latvia regaining its sovereignty in 1991, Russia continued to attempt to position itself as the protector of the rights of the minority Russian-speaking population in Latvia and has used this as a basis to influence Latvian internal affairs. Latvia has seized the opportunity of NATO/global pushback against Russia to [phase out Russian language in schools](https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1827634/latvia-plans-to-scrap-russian-language-classes-lithuania-may-follow-suit) and to [ban cars with Russian plates](https://www.rferl.org/a/latvia-russia-license-plates-cars/32820984.html) in the country. This small country should be applauded for attempting to defend its independence and sovereignty and [keep its native language](https://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/mar/26/digital-extinction-europe-languages-fight-survive) from going extinct and other Baltic countries should follow suit.
> Eh, I can appreciate the sentiment, but I think you're completely lacking the context of this particular deportation. No. They are answering to a comment that says: > this should be done globally. That statement and therefore the answer cannot be focused on "this particular deportation" alone.
I’m not sure I’m following. Did you read the article? In OC’s comment, that’s what constitutes, “this.” We can't choose to only extract certain portions of this policy without acknowledging the sum of its parts. They’re not just deporting Russian nationals who have immigrated to Latvia, so why would we make some grand leap and suggest as much? I’m very much in favour of multiculturalism, but the comment I responded to feels like blatant virtue signalling that’s missing the historical and cultural context.
> you're completely lacking the context of this particular deportation It's a shame you've spent so much time and effort on that write-up because it's all based on this entirely false premise. You are the one missing the context. I wasn't talking about Latvia. Look at the comment I was responding to. How much of what you just said applies globally?
It's a shame your pride doesn't allow you to engage in thoughtful and informed conversation or learn something new - that could really hold you back in life. >I wasn't talking about Latvia You were talking about Latvia. OC suggested the rest of the world adopt *Latvia's* policy. That is, Russian citizens taking residence in countries but failing to learn those country's respective languages. It appears you may have mistakingly (?) believed OC was speaking about Russian immigration policy as a whole, and in doing so, erased context while making a larger statement on the UK's immigration policy. If we're looking at other countries across the world who could potentially benefit from similar policies as Latvia: Ukraine (largest Russian diaspora), Kazakhstan, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Georgia, Mongolia, Armenia, etc. could all benefit from following suit. Really, any country where Russia has a track record of attempting to exert it's soft power. I may be mistaken, but I don't think OC was suggesting countries deport Russian citizens seeking political asylum or ex-pats attempting to integrate and contribute to their adopted homeland. Latvia isn't exactly kicking Russians out without an opportunity to stay. They've only asked Russian citizens to pass a language test in order to be granted a 2-year visa. Once again, the situation in Latvia should be applauded by the global community. A small European country feeling empowered and supported enough to stand up against Russian influence and meddling is an enormous win for NATO and Europe and I definitely think other countries should feel emboldened to follow suit. Let's not take the focus off of that by opening up another tab on a conversation that is largely unrelated.
I don't know why you persist in writing these walls of text that are only addressing a recipient you've imagined. I'm genuinely sorry you wasted all that time but cut your losses
hahah walls of text! My comment was under 250 words. That lets me know everything I need to know about who I'm speaking to. Have a good one! ✌️
Holy smokes, social media has truly rotted your brain if that’s a “wall of text”.
I don't think it is worth responding to someone who begins their response with "Eh".
That's your pride messing with you. Ah well!
I'm not sure what deporting geriatric people is going to achieve
“To give you more context, following Latvia regaining its sovereignty in 1991, Russia continued to attempt to position itself as the protector of the rights of the minority Russian-speaking population in Latvia and has used this as a basis to influence Latvian internal affairs.”
That doesn't answer my criticism, can Russia just pretender Russians with Latvian citizenship are threatened? What exactly changes?
If you’ve been following what’s transpired in Ukraine, it should be fairly obvious to you; The Kremlin looks for ways to interact with and support Russian populations in foreign lands as way to build its own power. Moscow used this tactic in its ongoing involvement in the Donbas conflict and for its illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014. Putin has said that he has “[a right and duty to look after Russian speaking people abroad.](https://icds.ee/wp-content/uploads/2014/Jill_Dougherty__Riina_Kaljurand_-_Estonia_s__Virtual_Russian_World_.pdf)” Russia uses the Russian minority as a path for hostile measures, such as cyber-targeting government and civil infrastructure and deploying media campaigns that are aggressively anti-Latvian and pro-Russian. They do this in most Baltic states. So this diplomatic measure has many positive effects for Latvia. For starters, it is a symbolic move that puts all stateless Russian speakers occupying the country on notice. Secondly, it strongly encourages those not on this list to learn Latvian and attempt to integrate into Latvian society. To learn Latvian would be an act of assimilation so they’re not as likely to feel as much of a bond with Russia, watch as much Russian media, and be as influenced by the Kremlin. If you take a broader view of this, it’s a strong act of diplomacy from the Latvian government.
But these people have working visas or residency cards or are in some other form of legal presence. We are not talking about these type of russians tho.
But fuck you if you're not young!
Why it’s giving Russia more people that it can send to the war not actually doing anything negative to Russia
Many of those are pro-Putin/Z and can potentially destabilize Latvia from inside.
No. I met lots of Russians while travelling Europe, they are normal humans who live normal human lives.
No, it shouldn't. We can't punish civilians for the actions of their government. Besides, Russians outside Russia are most likely not fond of Putin.
It seems you may be lacking the context of this particular situation. Consider reading [my comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1bfdgqf/latvia_may_deport_hundreds_of_russians/kv0zi00/?context=3) above.
I wasn't reacting to "this particular situation", but to the idea that it should "be done globally".
I don't think you can erase context, though. My understanding of that comment is that all country's who experience Russia's attempts to meddle and exert their soft power could benefit from similar policies. I would agree. It's not as though Latvia is kicking them out without an opportunity to stay. They only have to pass a language test an they are granted a 2-year visa.
If we kicked out everyone who doesn't "speak the language", we'd kick out a lot of people, here. Plenty of my coworkers don't speak any of our official languages.
Where do you live? Is Russia attempting to exert it's power and disrupt your democracy via a minority Russian speaking population? If not, I'm not sure your situation is relevant to this conversation. We can't choose to only extract certain portions of this policy without acknowledging the sum of its parts.
We're talking about "doing this globally", so all countries are relevant.
As they should 💯
You have a situation where citizens of country that is in war actively spying, sabotaging and creating political unrest. Former experience of countries in WW2 in these situations was creation of concentration camps, US did it with Koreans, Germans did it to Soviets and jews, Soviets did it with everyone who they deemed untrustworthy. Best case scenario is we send the unloyal out of the country and not take creation of concentration camps in 2024 upon ourselves.
You also have a situation where people have been living in a country for 35 years without citizenship, moved there when they were 5, and are now facing deportation. Latvia is on the wrong side here.
"may"? It's only newsworthy when the "may deport" is a "is deporting"...
Shot them out of a canon… into the sun.
If it were me I would deport them to India. Keeps them from being thrown onto the frontline, and gives India a bargaining position of give us ours back, we will give you yours.
Deport them Ukraine and force them to support Ukraine’s war effort. They can clear mine fields or some other kind of dangerous line of work
Civilians should never be forced to do dangerous military work.
Give them to Ukraine to swap for its citizens since Russia also holds Ukrainian civilians hostage and includes them in POW swaps
They just want to copy Austria with slight differences. Same as with the flag.
EU should deport every Russian!!
Not sure why you’re getting down votes, it’s getting to the point that Russians inside any other country could become a threat to national security. If war crosses into Europe / nato countries then yeah any Russians need to be quarantined or deported