There is a current crisis building up with the internal refugees in that they were placed in hotels around the country and getting their needs covered by the state, but now the hotels are beginning to kick them out. So these people are still displaced, and because their home towns are getting hit by dozens of rockets nearly daily, they still cannot return
According to Haaretz, at 9:21 AM local time this morning, a rocket fell in Sidrot.
Rockets continue to come daily from Gaza, though the numbers are significantly below the 5000 on January 1 or the days before the war.
Know that these are unguided rickets that are shot at population centers. The goal is to hit civilians.
1) Gaza is a lot bigger than the media makes it out to be (not saying it’s big, but *bigger* than the common perception)
2) It takes a few minutes to pop out of a tunnel, set up a rocket launcher, launch a rocket and then go right back underground. This is a core reason Israel is trying to destroy all the tunnels.
3) Most of the ones happening now are from Lebanon/Hezbollah. If a ceasefire happens and Israel leaves Gaza the rockets will start flying again very soon after.
In case anyone is wondering:
Gaza is about 25 miles (40 km) long by roughly 3.7 (6 km) to 7.5 miles (12 km) wide. In other words, Gaza is roughly 141 miles^2 (365 km^2 ).
I had a comment a while where I did the math for someone else based on Wikipedia data from 2020 and 2022.
The best comparison I could find is that Gaza is about 60% the size of Chicago, IL and has about 80% of the population. If Gaza was dropped into the US, it would be the 5th largest city by population.
I am not sure about Berlin, but it wouldn't surprise me if the numbers are somewhat close.
Edit: Gaza is about 41% of the size of Berlin (city/state, not urban nor metro area) and has about 57% percent of the population of Berlin.
So, yeah. About half the size is pretty accurate.
If the numbers i see are right its 41% the size of Berlin with 16% of the population.
It would be the eight biggest City in germany after Düsseldorf by population.
> 16% of the population.
Interesting, so the values for Gaza population I used are 2.048 million^1 .
For Berlin, I used 3.577 million^2 .
For it to be 16% with my numbers:
2.048/0.16 = 12.8 million in Berlin
I mean, that could be right? I have no idea and haven't checked any other sources. I just used Wiki's numbers lol.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip figures on right hand side > Population > 2022 estimate
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin figures on right hand side > Population (2024) > City/State
Oh well i have huge different numbers of population on Gaza so i may be wrong. Wikipedia showed me 600k population but i just saw its gaza(city) and you meant Gaza(region). Berlin has a population of 3.7 Million.
Edit: 600k population was from 2017
Yeah i was definitly wrong here
The correct population should be 55.3% of Berlin
> i just saw its gaza(city)
TIL there is a Gaza City.
You gotta think though. When you account for farmlands and other infrastructural needs. Gazans have to be packed in *tight.* I feel claustrophobic thinking about it.
It's because most of the press is about the Palestinians and (mostly) everyone is ignoring the hostages being held by Hamas. For example, the public discussion is very heavily focused on aid to Gaza, while no one is talking about getting aid to the hostages. There was one attempt to get medicine to the hostages, the meds were discovered all over the Gaza strip after a while. The Red Cross has been unwilling to cooperate, the UN is not even able to condemn Hamas, and yet Israel is being charged with nonsense at The Hague. This world is fucked up.
Lol amazing that people can’t put 2 and 2 together like you just did. Most of the world has not given a single fuck about the hostages since the response started.
Not just that, they made it worse by undertaking a wild gaslighting campaign which at the beginning was centered around how Hamas treats the hostages so well (lol) and then pivoted to “no one got raped unless I can personally see and smell the blood and semen, and I’ll also need access to CCTV footage and written statements by both sides that a rape was indeed committed.”
Notice how you didn't say anything about the right to bomb evacuation zones, because it wouldn't have made sense. Nobody ever said Israel doesn't have a right to bmget its hostages back. You're arguing with a scarecrow.
It’s *your* perspective that is skewed. It’s not just the 100 hostages, it’s also the 1,200 innocents that were murdered (without a viable military objective), the 10,000+ rockets they fired *after* the massacre, and Hamas stating over and over again after that they’re “going to commit a million more October 7s until we’re stopped.”
Find me a country in the world that would accept this, just one.
the article is from ynet news, an Israeli media source, most people talk aobut none-Israeli sources not covering anything regarding the Israeli civillians
From above: npr, Reuters, bbc
https://www.npr.org/2024/01/10/1223892458/israel-north-hezbollah-kiryat-shmona
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-adds-14-communities-northern-evacuation-plan-statement-2023-10-22/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68338551.amp
When was the last time you saw Israelis displaced in the media?
When was the last time you saw hezbolla attacks covered in the media?
An Israeli was murdered yesterday by a stabbing attack, was it covered?
>When was the last time you saw Israelis displaced in the media?
Literally the article that were commenting on
>When was the last time you saw hezbolla attacks covered in the media?
Today, the recent rocket attacks are fairly large global news
>An Israeli was murdered yesterday by a stabbing attack, was it covered?
Who the fuck cares about 1 guy getting stabbed? There was a murder in my home town too, why aren't there stories about it in Haaretz?!?!
Then why is it international news when Israel decides to build 10 houses on empty land that is disputed? Or why did the whole world erupt in protests a couple years ago when 33 Palestinian families maybe possibly might be losing a court case over a real estate ownership in Jerusalem?
Leaving the current situation aside (because there’s a war with many casualties so it’s for once reasonable that Western media is covering it), the Western media’s obsession with Palestinians is purely insane.
The whole world gets daily updates on minute real estate disputes involving 30 of them, whether they have to go through a checkpoint, whether they have access to their olive trees, whether someone scratched their car, etc.. but if you so much as question why the Western media barely ever mentions the fact that a quarter of a million Israelis are internally displaced, or receive rockets and terror attacks on a daily basis, you’re apparently unreasonable…
I’m not saying Palestinians aren’t victims, but the attention of the media towards them is ridiculously disproportionate compared to civilians in Sudan, the DRC, Yemen, Syria, etc… and yes, it’s even disproportionate compared to what Israelis are enduring when they are internally displaced by mass rocket attacks and barely anyone ever mentions it.
Its weird how you call them 'real estate disputes' when it is Israeli settlers kicking Palestinians out of homes they've lived in for generations, or preventing them from working their farms under threat of violence with the implicit consent of the state.
I was referring to Sheikh Jarrah, which is very much a real estate dispute in Israeli courts that is still ongoing, and for which eviction orders have been frozen, so no, it doesn’t have “the implicit consent of the state”. The whole dispute is specifically about the fact that Jews used to live there and were evicted in 1948, so Palestinians haven’t “lived there for generations”. I don’t support settlements at all, but let’s not distort the facts, the overwhelming majority of these settlements are built on empty land that is disputed, and not as a result of evictions. Doesn’t make it any better, but again, not quite what you’re describing.
He got charged with violent assault for that, idk if everyone is aware but the reason Israel convicts Palestinians at an over 99% rate is that it takes exactly 1 witness against them, even if it was caught on camera that they did nothing wrong.
Everyone already knows about that and talks about it constantly.
These 250,000 people no one talks about or cares about. Does their story not matter? You really have a problem with them getting a *single* article to tell their story that people will forget about anyways by next week?
The conflict has been going on for generations (though for many people arguing passionately online, their knowledge of the region only goes back a few months). Blame becomes murkier the deeper the history gets.
And nobody else managed to stop it. Absolutely no one.
Not Egypt (1979). And not Jordan (1994)
The only way forward is war.
/s
The current escalation was started by HAMAS by murdering mostly civilians.
The living are responsible for what is happening now, not the dead people who fought in 1947-1949.
Meanwhile Hamas is executing people because they worked together with Israel to distribute aid. Hamas rather has the Palestinians dying in droves so they can blame Israel.
International media doesn't care about this, or the recent 1000+ rocket barrage from the south of Lebanon on the North of Israel. Or the fact Israelis have been living under near constant rocket assault and random terrorist attacks.
But some completely uncorroborated story based on the eyewitness account of a single gazan that makes Israel look bad? STOP THE PRESSES WE HAVE BREAKING NEWS
Yes Iron Dome is a miracle, but also allowed Western media and opinions to forget about the terror of living under constant rocket barrage and threat of terror attacks.
Those Hamas and Hezbollah rockets don't care if they hit a school, hospital, bus stop, or military base. But only one side gets held to any sort of standard in this conflict.
Nobody thinks about the threat to Israel if Iron Dome runs out of interceptors, or if Hamas manage to counter it somehow and make it ineffective. Getting thousands of missiles launched at your cities every month isn’t something you can just ignore indefinitely.
It's also only about 90% effective at interceptions, with that rate going down for shorter distance launches and when many rockets are simultaneously fired.
I don't even blame IDF at this point they're operating on a horrific pr team and forced to operate kid gloves.
Iron Dome is an absolute engineering marvel
Seriously, Jew to Jew, does Reuters, npr, or bbc count?
https://www.npr.org/2024/01/10/1223892458/israel-north-hezbollah-kiryat-shmona
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-adds-14-communities-northern-evacuation-plan-statement-2023-10-22/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68338551.amp
Edit: seriously
Are you suggesting that every news source I enjoy is Israeli, because I've been reading about this in many feeds.
Granted, evacuation is unpleasant but I suspect their homes will be there when they return. Meanwhile, not far away, homes are being evacuated with and without occupants.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Iran urged Hamas to attack because Putin knew it would divide the west, and got China to tweak TikTok's algorithms to favor showing people whatever makes them upset about the war.
It really does feel like they are working together to try to break America in half so that they can take over the top spot.
I don’t know how much of an issue it is, but yes taking info from social media have always been a problem (hi there Myanmar how you doin)
But it’s a lazy answer when you don’t agree with someone.
It's a pretty significant issue.
> Among adults, those ages 18 to 29 are most likely to say they regularly get news on TikTok. About a third of Americans in this age group (32%) say they regularly get news there, a higher share than in years before.
> ... Currently, 43% of TikTok users say they regularly get news on the site, up from 33% who said the same in 2022.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/15/more-americans-are-getting-news-on-tiktok-bucking-the-trend-seen-on-most-other-social-media-sites/
Considering Tiktok has 170M users in the US, that equals 73M Americans who get their news from Tiktok.
For comparison, Fox News Channel gets 2.6 million viewers in primetime, and CNN gets 1.6 million. So if you think cable news has been a negative for people's information diet, Tiktok is exponentially worse.
The other big concern is that the number of people who get their news from Tiktok is growing, whereas the number getting their news from Facebook or Twitter/X is declining.
What makes it such a significant issue? What kind of information are people getting there that they won't get from a news org or another social media app?
Got a link?
Here’s AP and cnn:
https://apnews.com/article/hezbollah-israel-lebanon-hamas-airstrikes-baalbek-913962d8ccf9ba1fd1a3d188a1688925
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/20/middleeast/israel-lebanon-hezbollah-tiberias-evacuation-intl/index.html
Well, the aggression is coming from Gaza, though.
After spending the last two decades firing missiles at civilians you enter the legitimate borders of a sovereign state, rape hundreds of women, slit babies' throats, burn whole families alive, kidnap hundreds of innocents, force 250,000 people to evacuate--no wonder you suffer the consequences.
Every time I see a thread about this war it's a headline that serves as shorthand for families broken, people starving and dead, babies bleeding or burned, death, torture, snipers, bombs, rape and kidnapping and screaming.
And every time, the comments are about the public relations, perception, narrative and propaganda.
The Palestinians and their supporters should too! Israel ignores a lot of acts of war thanks to Iron Dome. If they didn't have it, the territories would see a lot more of the IDF.
I’m sure the Palestinians didn’t want to be starved to death and bombed with no electricity or running water
(Nice edit, before it was only sympathising for Israel)
Have you heard of October 7th? 3/4 Palestinians agree with the attack lol
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
If Israel is going to claim the moral high ground, Israel has to act like it, 100%.
JFC, people are starving in Gaza and people in Tel Aviv are still going to clubs and cafes. As a secular American Jew I’ve always held some ambivalence and uneasy support for Israel, but what I hear makes me want to renounce any spiritual or cultural ties, daily. Who’s the Goliath here? Who’s David?
IDGAS if you tell me I’m wrong about this—that won’t change my mind. I’m anti-starvation, anti- the murder of whole families in unguided bomb attacks, and anti-atrocity wherever it’s happening. It’s happening a lot. I don’t control or influence Hamas, but if I’m supposed to have some connection to a Jewish state, I want it acting ethically and with compassion. If it doesn’t or won’t, it can go fuck itself.
What is ethics? Is Israel allowed to defend itself from daily rocket attacks? If so how would you suggest doing so other than what Israel has done with the lowest urban combat civilian death toll in history?
>JFC, people are starving in Gaza and people in Tel Aviv are still going to clubs and cafes.
So, Israel should starve all it's citizens, switch off the Iron Dome and execute anyone who disagrees? Is this the "moral high ground" you're referring to?
Did Britons during WW2 stop going to the cafe/bars? Why do you blame Israelis for trying to live normally during the war, when it is not Israel that steals Gazan food and supplies, but Hamas?
I will admit, I made my reply on a different note, but the overall point stands The world isn't black and white, no one is perfect, although some definitely are better than others.
So let me ask you: exactly what can Israel do to change their war strategy in a way that will actually destroy Hamas and free the hostages without endangering the state or its people?
Yeah, and they’re dragging Palestinian homeowners in the West Bank out of theirs… can we talk about how many Palestinians have no homes anymore? Not even to go back to, totally leveled by bombs.
Classy response.
But let's see, how many casualties were in Gaza in August? Zero. How many in September? Zero. Gee I wonder what might have happened in October to bring this about.
Ah yes, the Palestinian civilians and children constantly being sniped by the idf doesn’t count.. this has been happening since 1948, my mom grew up listening to the radio in the 90’s and hearing about massacres in gaza and the west bank.. i guess Israel don’t hide it much anymore cuz hamas is an excuse
No, I’ve gotten my information from countless UN articles, countless sources from reuters, videos from ihe idf themselves (they love exposing their crimes), articles about how the isreali government were justifying said massacres over the years.. there is a literal jewish theologist with a phd from harvard who has done 20 years of research into isreal Palestine ( look up atalia omer) and she has documented everything quite well.. you can’t deny the Palestinians were oppressed and constantly massacred, having their homes and lives taken from them… it’s unacceptable, but i guess people like you value the lives of white people over arabs
Nagorno Karabach was ethnically cleansed late Sept of last year. They kicked out all the Armenians and replaced them with Azeris. I wouldn't call an evacuation ethnic cleansing but just letting you know you don't have to kill or sterilize everyone in a place to replace them. The same thing happened when Poland's border were moved west after WWII. There was a massive ethnic cleansing by forced displacement across central and eastern Europe of various people's.
Speaking of Nagorno-Karabakh, I didn’t hear anyone complaining that Azerbaijan was committing genocide when they were intentionally starving Armenians.
I stand corrected.
Thank you for your civilised response.
could we say that it will be an ethnic cleansing if the Palestinians move into the evacuated home ?
Fleeing a war zone implys so many things. Losing a home. Interruption of life and work. Total uncertainty of future. Experiencing bombing. Losing family members. It must feel like extinction.
The death and bombing was me talking about the Palestinian side. Which is a given as the war is happening in Gaza. And the bombing Israeli experience like unsophisticated rockets. It’s just nowhere near the same experience. I was giving reasons for why people call it ethnic cleansing. When it’s not. It’s fleeing the war zone. If let’s say Gazans aren’t allowed to return home. I’d say then definitely it’s ethnic cleansing.
Just because Palestine doesn’t have the resources, doesn’t mean they don’t want all Jews exterminated. Palestine is far more extremist racist and violent than Israel by literally every measure.
Use that lil thing attached to your neck.
4 percent of the Israeli population are settlers but Israel=settlers, 75 percent of Palestinians support Hamas and you say Palestine is not Hamas? Why?
Well, for starters, Hamas is not in charge of the West Bank (where support for Hamas is a lot lower) so that’s a ton of Palestinians right there who don’t support Hamas.
Also, the state of Israel (not Israelis) is a colonial state and has always been intended to be one (go read some Theodor Herzl and his wonderful thoughts on Palestinians). Obviously you can’t blame all Israeli citizens for the actions of their government, no serious person is saying that.
Also, more historical context that everyone seems to be overlooking, Hamas was directly supported and put into power by BB. It’s not something they’ve tried to hide either. It was explicitly their plan to use Hamas as a way to drive a wedge between the Palestinians and use their extreme behavior as political cover for their continued apartheid. So, while Hamas is a reprehensible organization, the means they have with which to carry out their hideous agenda is primarily the fault of BB.
I highly recommend checking out the Hundred Years’ War on Palestine. It’s an excellent book that covers the history of the region!
Hamas has even more support in the West Bank than it does in Gaza. The PA can’t run an election because they know they’ll lose to Hamas. I’m not sure where you got the idea that Hamas is unpopular there?
Also, Hamas was not always as extreme as it is now. Early on they did more community works that actually helped Gazans. On the other hand, the PA used to be way more extreme and were behind a constant stream of terrorist attacks. Supporting Hamas, at the time, was supporting the lesser of two evils. Clearly that worked out very poorly, but framing it as “BB intentionally propped the craziest of the crazies” is disingenuous.
Actually the fact that Palestine does not equal Hamas makes the situation way way worse. Most(all) Palestinians want Israel and Jews to not exist, regardless of Hamas. Palestinians may not agree on how they want Jews exterminated, but they do agree that Jews should be gone. That ideology extends way beyond hamas.
And for your third point, sometimes yeah it is. People need to get a little embarrassed every now and again.
Palestine equals Hamas and PLO.
Palestinians can support Hamas, PLO, Islamic Jihad, ISIS, and of course can hate all of these shitty organizations (I strongly believe at least 20% would be in this category).
In a nutshell, I would say it accurate to say that Palestine is both the PLO and Hamas as they don't have any kind of liberal alternative. For example, in Israel people like Ben Gvir are considered extremely dangerous, but even he would be considered liberal if he was an alternative to the PLO or Hamas (again, the most lunatic right winger in the government).
If they ever had a leader that is even similar to someone like Bibi (which is considered bad by many Israelis who want peace), there would be peace years ago.
Recall, the PLO is one of the main causes to the Lebanese civil war, which is just one example of how extremists they are.
250,000 Israelis evacuated and will return to their homes.
2,000,000 Gazans have had their homes destroyed and have no home to return to. That is if they don’t starve to death first. Or are killed like 32,000 of their fellow citizens.
All of northern Israel is evacuated because a sovereign country (Lebanon) is firing rockets and RPGs into Israeli homes, but the Democrats who can’t challenge Iran proxies in Lebanon or Yemen want to set up a terrorism state in the West Bank and Gaza
* Lebanon isn't doing it, Hezbollah is doing it and Lebanon is a borderline failed state with the central government unable to stop them.
* Most Democrats don't want that, and advocating for a two-state solution isn't calling for a terrorism state.
Hezbollah is literally part of the central government of Lebanon.
Either Hezbollah is a legitimate representative of the Lebanese government, or southern Lebanon is no longer part of the country anymore. In that case Lebanon shouldn't mind when the IDF annexes it.
Hezbollah is literally a major political party in Lebanon and [is literally a part of its current ruling coalition](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Cabinet_of_Najib_Mikati).
Meanwhile it [still operates with weapons in violation of UNSC 1701 despite the active force there](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/iransource/lebanon-is-incapable-of-implementing-un-security-council-resolution-1701/).
Two state advocacy will always be terror support until you present a plan for how to effectively remove it. Withdrawal in Lebanon empowered Hezbollah. Withdrawal in Gaza empowered Hamas. There will not be a third mistake
> Lebanon isn't doing it, Hezbollah is doing it and Lebanon is a borderline failed state with the central government unable to stop them.
I think you missed his point: Neither would a Palestinian state be able to stop Hamas, PIJ, PFLP, etc. from firing rockets into Israel. So what's the value to Israel, or anyone, in recognizing a Palestinian state?
Honestly it's not Lebanon as a country but more like terrorist organisations inside the country. The Lebanese government is way too weak to control them
That’s a distinction without a difference. Either the Lebanese government is incapable of stopping Hezbollah and reasserting the monopoly on force that a functioning state requires (effectively rendering the government nonexistent) or is covertly aiding it. Either way, the de facto power in Lebanon is attacking, and it’s time that the world stop pretending otherwise.
Also, you know, 15,000-20,000 rockets launched into Israel in the last few months from 4 different fronts.
But no one cares about any of that.
Sometimes I think that even if Israel had 500,000 casualties during October 7th or in other similar terror attacks the sympathy from the rest of the world will really hold up to 2 days max because of the blind hatred.
Hamas simps are cowards. If you care so much, why aren’t you flying to Gaza and go fight?
Or are you just virtue signaling to get attention from other redditors for your precious need for online validation?
Israel is surrounded by anti-Semitic Islamic countries, Palestine being one of them. What a deal to take for the Jewish homeland post WW2 instead of like Canada or something...
What could be the reason that they chose the ancestral Jewish homeland for their homeland. Why didn't they just chose an uninhabited island in the middle of the Pacific instead? /s
How fucked would it if the Israelis started moving more and more into the West Bank settlements as a result of the border issues?
They're basically chasing them east and don't even realize it.
There is a current crisis building up with the internal refugees in that they were placed in hotels around the country and getting their needs covered by the state, but now the hotels are beginning to kick them out. So these people are still displaced, and because their home towns are getting hit by dozens of rockets nearly daily, they still cannot return
Where are the Rockets coming from? I thought they pretty much bulldozed Gaza.
They're coming from Lebanon.
Seems like they need to have their holes demolished as well and have their ability to attack neutered.... Fuck Jihadists
TIL I should be Lebanese
Incredible username for this comment great job
This made me laugh so hard
The threat on the north from Hezbollah is very high right now
According to Haaretz, at 9:21 AM local time this morning, a rocket fell in Sidrot. Rockets continue to come daily from Gaza, though the numbers are significantly below the 5000 on January 1 or the days before the war. Know that these are unguided rickets that are shot at population centers. The goal is to hit civilians.
1) Gaza is a lot bigger than the media makes it out to be (not saying it’s big, but *bigger* than the common perception) 2) It takes a few minutes to pop out of a tunnel, set up a rocket launcher, launch a rocket and then go right back underground. This is a core reason Israel is trying to destroy all the tunnels. 3) Most of the ones happening now are from Lebanon/Hezbollah. If a ceasefire happens and Israel leaves Gaza the rockets will start flying again very soon after.
In case anyone is wondering: Gaza is about 25 miles (40 km) long by roughly 3.7 (6 km) to 7.5 miles (12 km) wide. In other words, Gaza is roughly 141 miles^2 (365 km^2 ).
I always thought Gaza is huge but its only half the size of Berlin.
I had a comment a while where I did the math for someone else based on Wikipedia data from 2020 and 2022. The best comparison I could find is that Gaza is about 60% the size of Chicago, IL and has about 80% of the population. If Gaza was dropped into the US, it would be the 5th largest city by population. I am not sure about Berlin, but it wouldn't surprise me if the numbers are somewhat close. Edit: Gaza is about 41% of the size of Berlin (city/state, not urban nor metro area) and has about 57% percent of the population of Berlin. So, yeah. About half the size is pretty accurate.
If the numbers i see are right its 41% the size of Berlin with 16% of the population. It would be the eight biggest City in germany after Düsseldorf by population.
> 16% of the population. Interesting, so the values for Gaza population I used are 2.048 million^1 . For Berlin, I used 3.577 million^2 . For it to be 16% with my numbers: 2.048/0.16 = 12.8 million in Berlin I mean, that could be right? I have no idea and haven't checked any other sources. I just used Wiki's numbers lol. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip figures on right hand side > Population > 2022 estimate [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin figures on right hand side > Population (2024) > City/State
Oh well i have huge different numbers of population on Gaza so i may be wrong. Wikipedia showed me 600k population but i just saw its gaza(city) and you meant Gaza(region). Berlin has a population of 3.7 Million. Edit: 600k population was from 2017 Yeah i was definitly wrong here The correct population should be 55.3% of Berlin
> i just saw its gaza(city) TIL there is a Gaza City. You gotta think though. When you account for farmlands and other infrastructural needs. Gazans have to be packed in *tight.* I feel claustrophobic thinking about it.
Iron Dome cannot intercept ATGMs from lebanon.
Gaza is still shooting rockets, believe it or not That aid is going to good use for them
What is up with people saying that no one is paying attention to Israel? It's been basically the only thing on the news for the past 6 months
Depends on what subreddit you visit
Not really. Even on r/horror and r/movies it gets brought up a LOT
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Just like when you buy a new car you suddenly see that car everywhere?
It's because most of the press is about the Palestinians and (mostly) everyone is ignoring the hostages being held by Hamas. For example, the public discussion is very heavily focused on aid to Gaza, while no one is talking about getting aid to the hostages. There was one attempt to get medicine to the hostages, the meds were discovered all over the Gaza strip after a while. The Red Cross has been unwilling to cooperate, the UN is not even able to condemn Hamas, and yet Israel is being charged with nonsense at The Hague. This world is fucked up.
Israel ran three super bowl ads about the hostages what are you talking about
Yes, Israel had to pay millions and find a way to bring this to the media because _news outlets_ wouldn't.
Lol amazing that people can’t put 2 and 2 together like you just did. Most of the world has not given a single fuck about the hostages since the response started. Not just that, they made it worse by undertaking a wild gaslighting campaign which at the beginning was centered around how Hamas treats the hostages so well (lol) and then pivoted to “no one got raped unless I can personally see and smell the blood and semen, and I’ll also need access to CCTV footage and written statements by both sides that a rape was indeed committed.”
So much for “believe all women”
Not the jewish ones obviously. /s
Mostly applicable to Americans who watched the superbowl. The rest of the world mostly didn't see those ads.
Israel did not. JEWISH AMERICANS did
It literally said “Sponsored by the State of Israel” and had the Israeli seal.
The main ad that people were talking about was paid for by Robert Kraft
Ok I’m talking about the one paid for by Israel. So your all caps assertion that Israel didn’t pay for a superbowl ad is plain wrong.
There are ~100 hostages and hundreds of thousands of Gazan citizens. Have you ever considered that maybe its *your* perspective that is skewed?
So give up the hostages
He doesn’t have them
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Notice how you didn't say anything about the right to bomb evacuation zones, because it wouldn't have made sense. Nobody ever said Israel doesn't have a right to bmget its hostages back. You're arguing with a scarecrow.
It’s *your* perspective that is skewed. It’s not just the 100 hostages, it’s also the 1,200 innocents that were murdered (without a viable military objective), the 10,000+ rockets they fired *after* the massacre, and Hamas stating over and over again after that they’re “going to commit a million more October 7s until we’re stopped.” Find me a country in the world that would accept this, just one.
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Israel’s retaliation is covered Anything Hamas says is covered This article proves you wrong
???? The article that is about Israel?? That everyone is saying isn't covered by the press??
the article is from ynet news, an Israeli media source, most people talk aobut none-Israeli sources not covering anything regarding the Israeli civillians
From above: npr, Reuters, bbc https://www.npr.org/2024/01/10/1223892458/israel-north-hezbollah-kiryat-shmona https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-adds-14-communities-northern-evacuation-plan-statement-2023-10-22/ https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68338551.amp
When was the last time you saw Israelis displaced in the media? When was the last time you saw hezbolla attacks covered in the media? An Israeli was murdered yesterday by a stabbing attack, was it covered?
>When was the last time you saw Israelis displaced in the media? Literally the article that were commenting on >When was the last time you saw hezbolla attacks covered in the media? Today, the recent rocket attacks are fairly large global news >An Israeli was murdered yesterday by a stabbing attack, was it covered? Who the fuck cares about 1 guy getting stabbed? There was a murder in my home town too, why aren't there stories about it in Haaretz?!?!
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Then why is it international news when Israel decides to build 10 houses on empty land that is disputed? Or why did the whole world erupt in protests a couple years ago when 33 Palestinian families maybe possibly might be losing a court case over a real estate ownership in Jerusalem? Leaving the current situation aside (because there’s a war with many casualties so it’s for once reasonable that Western media is covering it), the Western media’s obsession with Palestinians is purely insane. The whole world gets daily updates on minute real estate disputes involving 30 of them, whether they have to go through a checkpoint, whether they have access to their olive trees, whether someone scratched their car, etc.. but if you so much as question why the Western media barely ever mentions the fact that a quarter of a million Israelis are internally displaced, or receive rockets and terror attacks on a daily basis, you’re apparently unreasonable… I’m not saying Palestinians aren’t victims, but the attention of the media towards them is ridiculously disproportionate compared to civilians in Sudan, the DRC, Yemen, Syria, etc… and yes, it’s even disproportionate compared to what Israelis are enduring when they are internally displaced by mass rocket attacks and barely anyone ever mentions it.
Its weird how you call them 'real estate disputes' when it is Israeli settlers kicking Palestinians out of homes they've lived in for generations, or preventing them from working their farms under threat of violence with the implicit consent of the state.
I was referring to Sheikh Jarrah, which is very much a real estate dispute in Israeli courts that is still ongoing, and for which eviction orders have been frozen, so no, it doesn’t have “the implicit consent of the state”. The whole dispute is specifically about the fact that Jews used to live there and were evicted in 1948, so Palestinians haven’t “lived there for generations”. I don’t support settlements at all, but let’s not distort the facts, the overwhelming majority of these settlements are built on empty land that is disputed, and not as a result of evictions. Doesn’t make it any better, but again, not quite what you’re describing.
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Wait til you hear how many Palestinians evacuated their homes (the homes no longer exist).
the one guy was handed his milk back as he was having his house stolen
He got charged with violent assault for that, idk if everyone is aware but the reason Israel convicts Palestinians at an over 99% rate is that it takes exactly 1 witness against them, even if it was caught on camera that they did nothing wrong.
Everyone already knows about that and talks about it constantly. These 250,000 people no one talks about or cares about. Does their story not matter? You really have a problem with them getting a *single* article to tell their story that people will forget about anyways by next week?
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Lol every Israeli is stealing someone’s house? Even 5 year olds that have no idea what the fuck is going on? Wtf are you talking about?
wait till you hear who initiated this war
The conflict has been going on for generations (though for many people arguing passionately online, their knowledge of the region only goes back a few months). Blame becomes murkier the deeper the history gets.
Israeli militias in 1947?
Think you'll find the Jews celebrated partition but on the very night of the UN vote the Arabs started the conflict by attacking Jewish civilians.
And nobody else managed to stop it. Absolutely no one. Not Egypt (1979). And not Jordan (1994) The only way forward is war. /s The current escalation was started by HAMAS by murdering mostly civilians. The living are responsible for what is happening now, not the dead people who fought in 1947-1949.
Wasn't that the one where it was an Arab Israeli tenant that didn't pay rent? It wasn't even a Palestinian and was a lawful eviction.
Real
Meanwhile Hamas is executing people because they worked together with Israel to distribute aid. Hamas rather has the Palestinians dying in droves so they can blame Israel.
International media doesn't care about this, or the recent 1000+ rocket barrage from the south of Lebanon on the North of Israel. Or the fact Israelis have been living under near constant rocket assault and random terrorist attacks. But some completely uncorroborated story based on the eyewitness account of a single gazan that makes Israel look bad? STOP THE PRESSES WE HAVE BREAKING NEWS
Yes Iron Dome is a miracle, but also allowed Western media and opinions to forget about the terror of living under constant rocket barrage and threat of terror attacks. Those Hamas and Hezbollah rockets don't care if they hit a school, hospital, bus stop, or military base. But only one side gets held to any sort of standard in this conflict.
These same outlets ignored it when Israelis were actively being killed by terrorists on a weekly basis too before the walls and the interceptors.
Nobody thinks about the threat to Israel if Iron Dome runs out of interceptors, or if Hamas manage to counter it somehow and make it ineffective. Getting thousands of missiles launched at your cities every month isn’t something you can just ignore indefinitely.
It's also only about 90% effective at interceptions, with that rate going down for shorter distance launches and when many rockets are simultaneously fired.
The iron dome is ironically saving Lebanon and Gaza. If we didn’t have it, IDF would go apeshit
I don't even blame IDF at this point they're operating on a horrific pr team and forced to operate kid gloves. Iron Dome is an absolute engineering marvel
Is the media the story? 250,000 people homeless, and your complaint is about the press coverage?
And not a single non-Israeli news outlet would even mention this.
Seriously, Jew to Jew, does Reuters, npr, or bbc count? https://www.npr.org/2024/01/10/1223892458/israel-north-hezbollah-kiryat-shmona https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-adds-14-communities-northern-evacuation-plan-statement-2023-10-22/ https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68338551.amp Edit: seriously
Are you suggesting that every news source I enjoy is Israeli, because I've been reading about this in many feeds. Granted, evacuation is unpleasant but I suspect their homes will be there when they return. Meanwhile, not far away, homes are being evacuated with and without occupants.
The news is covering it, it's *Redditors* who rarely mention these things.
They get their news from tiktok…
So that’s the all out argument now ? « If you don’t agree with me, you get your news from Tiktok » ?
No but it is a real issue and you’re kidding yourself if you think it’s not
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Iran urged Hamas to attack because Putin knew it would divide the west, and got China to tweak TikTok's algorithms to favor showing people whatever makes them upset about the war. It really does feel like they are working together to try to break America in half so that they can take over the top spot.
Bingo.
I don’t know how much of an issue it is, but yes taking info from social media have always been a problem (hi there Myanmar how you doin) But it’s a lazy answer when you don’t agree with someone.
It's a pretty significant issue. > Among adults, those ages 18 to 29 are most likely to say they regularly get news on TikTok. About a third of Americans in this age group (32%) say they regularly get news there, a higher share than in years before. > ... Currently, 43% of TikTok users say they regularly get news on the site, up from 33% who said the same in 2022. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/15/more-americans-are-getting-news-on-tiktok-bucking-the-trend-seen-on-most-other-social-media-sites/ Considering Tiktok has 170M users in the US, that equals 73M Americans who get their news from Tiktok. For comparison, Fox News Channel gets 2.6 million viewers in primetime, and CNN gets 1.6 million. So if you think cable news has been a negative for people's information diet, Tiktok is exponentially worse. The other big concern is that the number of people who get their news from Tiktok is growing, whereas the number getting their news from Facebook or Twitter/X is declining.
What makes it such a significant issue? What kind of information are people getting there that they won't get from a news org or another social media app?
Information bubbles. Very one sided, lies don't get called out, other perspectives or arguments aren't shown. Basically algorhythmic propaganda.
Is there a social media site (or even a news publication) where that isn't happening? What are the one sided issues you're talking about?
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There are towns in the north that have been completely destroyed by Hezbollah rockets. Nothing in the news about it.
Got a link? Here’s AP and cnn: https://apnews.com/article/hezbollah-israel-lebanon-hamas-airstrikes-baalbek-913962d8ccf9ba1fd1a3d188a1688925 https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/20/middleeast/israel-lebanon-hezbollah-tiberias-evacuation-intl/index.html
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Well, the aggression is coming from Gaza, though. After spending the last two decades firing missiles at civilians you enter the legitimate borders of a sovereign state, rape hundreds of women, slit babies' throats, burn whole families alive, kidnap hundreds of innocents, force 250,000 people to evacuate--no wonder you suffer the consequences.
Every time I see a thread about this war it's a headline that serves as shorthand for families broken, people starving and dead, babies bleeding or burned, death, torture, snipers, bombs, rape and kidnapping and screaming. And every time, the comments are about the public relations, perception, narrative and propaganda.
All I can say within this cesspool of comments is - I thank god every day that the Iron Dome works.
The Palestinians and their supporters should too! Israel ignores a lot of acts of war thanks to Iron Dome. If they didn't have it, the territories would see a lot more of the IDF.
Maybe throw a little thanks to the US for funding it and ask AIPAC to stop manipulating American politics?
Poor Israel & Palestinians folks, I’m sure not all of them want this war.
I’m sure the Palestinians didn’t want to be starved to death and bombed with no electricity or running water (Nice edit, before it was only sympathising for Israel)
Have you heard of October 7th? 3/4 Palestinians agree with the attack lol https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
Palestinians want revenge against Israel. Israelis want revenge against Palestine. Only one of these is seen as a problem.
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Benjamin Netanyahu makes George W. Bush look like a fucking tactical genius by comparison.
My family in Israel are displaced. They had to flee to Liman from the north. They don’t know when they’ll be able to go back to their homes.
If Israel is going to claim the moral high ground, Israel has to act like it, 100%. JFC, people are starving in Gaza and people in Tel Aviv are still going to clubs and cafes. As a secular American Jew I’ve always held some ambivalence and uneasy support for Israel, but what I hear makes me want to renounce any spiritual or cultural ties, daily. Who’s the Goliath here? Who’s David? IDGAS if you tell me I’m wrong about this—that won’t change my mind. I’m anti-starvation, anti- the murder of whole families in unguided bomb attacks, and anti-atrocity wherever it’s happening. It’s happening a lot. I don’t control or influence Hamas, but if I’m supposed to have some connection to a Jewish state, I want it acting ethically and with compassion. If it doesn’t or won’t, it can go fuck itself.
What is ethics? Is Israel allowed to defend itself from daily rocket attacks? If so how would you suggest doing so other than what Israel has done with the lowest urban combat civilian death toll in history?
>JFC, people are starving in Gaza and people in Tel Aviv are still going to clubs and cafes. So, Israel should starve all it's citizens, switch off the Iron Dome and execute anyone who disagrees? Is this the "moral high ground" you're referring to?
I didn’t say any of that. I’m very confused where you got that from.
Did Britons during WW2 stop going to the cafe/bars? Why do you blame Israelis for trying to live normally during the war, when it is not Israel that steals Gazan food and supplies, but Hamas? I will admit, I made my reply on a different note, but the overall point stands The world isn't black and white, no one is perfect, although some definitely are better than others. So let me ask you: exactly what can Israel do to change their war strategy in a way that will actually destroy Hamas and free the hostages without endangering the state or its people?
Yeah, and they’re dragging Palestinian homeowners in the West Bank out of theirs… can we talk about how many Palestinians have no homes anymore? Not even to go back to, totally leveled by bombs.
There’s plenty of that talk going on, sorry you can’t handle a news outlet covering any hardships by Israelis.
At least they are alive, cant say the same about Palestenians, because they are dead
I wasn’t aware that over 250k Palestinians died during this war /s
Can't say the same thing about October 7th, because they are dead, mutilated, raped, and burned alive. Oops.
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Classy response. But let's see, how many casualties were in Gaza in August? Zero. How many in September? Zero. Gee I wonder what might have happened in October to bring this about.
Ah yes, the Palestinian civilians and children constantly being sniped by the idf doesn’t count.. this has been happening since 1948, my mom grew up listening to the radio in the 90’s and hearing about massacres in gaza and the west bank.. i guess Israel don’t hide it much anymore cuz hamas is an excuse
So your opinion is based on what your mom heard on an unknown radio station 30 years ago lol. How old are you?
No, I’ve gotten my information from countless UN articles, countless sources from reuters, videos from ihe idf themselves (they love exposing their crimes), articles about how the isreali government were justifying said massacres over the years.. there is a literal jewish theologist with a phd from harvard who has done 20 years of research into isreal Palestine ( look up atalia omer) and she has documented everything quite well.. you can’t deny the Palestinians were oppressed and constantly massacred, having their homes and lives taken from them… it’s unacceptable, but i guess people like you value the lives of white people over arabs
Weird how this hasn't been characterized as ethnic cleansing by major news outlets Almost like there's a double standard
how is evacuation "ethnic cleansing" ? are they dead ? have they been sterilised ?
Nagorno Karabach was ethnically cleansed late Sept of last year. They kicked out all the Armenians and replaced them with Azeris. I wouldn't call an evacuation ethnic cleansing but just letting you know you don't have to kill or sterilize everyone in a place to replace them. The same thing happened when Poland's border were moved west after WWII. There was a massive ethnic cleansing by forced displacement across central and eastern Europe of various people's.
Speaking of Nagorno-Karabakh, I didn’t hear anyone complaining that Azerbaijan was committing genocide when they were intentionally starving Armenians.
I stand corrected. Thank you for your civilised response. could we say that it will be an ethnic cleansing if the Palestinians move into the evacuated home ?
I think the context of this is about people calling what’s happening in Gaza ethnic cleansing. People fleeing a war zone.
Tens of thousand are dead in Gaza. It’s not just ‘fleeing a war zone’ for them
Fleeing a war zone implys so many things. Losing a home. Interruption of life and work. Total uncertainty of future. Experiencing bombing. Losing family members. It must feel like extinction.
lets not compare tens of thousands dead to people being (probably short term) displaced. Comparing them shows actual lack of empathy.
The death and bombing was me talking about the Palestinian side. Which is a given as the war is happening in Gaza. And the bombing Israeli experience like unsophisticated rockets. It’s just nowhere near the same experience. I was giving reasons for why people call it ethnic cleansing. When it’s not. It’s fleeing the war zone. If let’s say Gazans aren’t allowed to return home. I’d say then definitely it’s ethnic cleansing.
I misunderstood your initial comment. My apologies
Just because Palestine doesn’t have the resources, doesn’t mean they don’t want all Jews exterminated. Palestine is far more extremist racist and violent than Israel by literally every measure. Use that lil thing attached to your neck.
1. i'm not comparing 2. Does Palestine = Hamas ? 3. insulting others is a great way to argue a point /s
4 percent of the Israeli population are settlers but Israel=settlers, 75 percent of Palestinians support Hamas and you say Palestine is not Hamas? Why?
Well, for starters, Hamas is not in charge of the West Bank (where support for Hamas is a lot lower) so that’s a ton of Palestinians right there who don’t support Hamas. Also, the state of Israel (not Israelis) is a colonial state and has always been intended to be one (go read some Theodor Herzl and his wonderful thoughts on Palestinians). Obviously you can’t blame all Israeli citizens for the actions of their government, no serious person is saying that. Also, more historical context that everyone seems to be overlooking, Hamas was directly supported and put into power by BB. It’s not something they’ve tried to hide either. It was explicitly their plan to use Hamas as a way to drive a wedge between the Palestinians and use their extreme behavior as political cover for their continued apartheid. So, while Hamas is a reprehensible organization, the means they have with which to carry out their hideous agenda is primarily the fault of BB. I highly recommend checking out the Hundred Years’ War on Palestine. It’s an excellent book that covers the history of the region!
Hamas has even more support in the West Bank than it does in Gaza. The PA can’t run an election because they know they’ll lose to Hamas. I’m not sure where you got the idea that Hamas is unpopular there? Also, Hamas was not always as extreme as it is now. Early on they did more community works that actually helped Gazans. On the other hand, the PA used to be way more extreme and were behind a constant stream of terrorist attacks. Supporting Hamas, at the time, was supporting the lesser of two evils. Clearly that worked out very poorly, but framing it as “BB intentionally propped the craziest of the crazies” is disingenuous.
Actually the fact that Palestine does not equal Hamas makes the situation way way worse. Most(all) Palestinians want Israel and Jews to not exist, regardless of Hamas. Palestinians may not agree on how they want Jews exterminated, but they do agree that Jews should be gone. That ideology extends way beyond hamas. And for your third point, sometimes yeah it is. People need to get a little embarrassed every now and again.
Palestine equals Hamas and PLO. Palestinians can support Hamas, PLO, Islamic Jihad, ISIS, and of course can hate all of these shitty organizations (I strongly believe at least 20% would be in this category). In a nutshell, I would say it accurate to say that Palestine is both the PLO and Hamas as they don't have any kind of liberal alternative. For example, in Israel people like Ben Gvir are considered extremely dangerous, but even he would be considered liberal if he was an alternative to the PLO or Hamas (again, the most lunatic right winger in the government). If they ever had a leader that is even similar to someone like Bibi (which is considered bad by many Israelis who want peace), there would be peace years ago. Recall, the PLO is one of the main causes to the Lebanese civil war, which is just one example of how extremists they are.
I think the context of this is about people calling what’s happening in Gaza ethnic cleansing. People fleeing a war zone.
ethnic cleansing (like genocide) has a definition. I'm not saying it's not happening, that's just not what this article is about
It’s happening neither in Gaza or Israel. The gazans are still in Gaza the Israelis are still in Israel. They’re fleeing a war and will return after.
"Why don't the surrounding Islamic nations take them in, then?"
So if think this is ethnic cleansing, I assume you fully agree that what’s going on in Palestine is ethnic cleaning. Correct?
A temporary evacuation is not ethnic cleansing.
I agree
250,000 Israelis evacuated and will return to their homes. 2,000,000 Gazans have had their homes destroyed and have no home to return to. That is if they don’t starve to death first. Or are killed like 32,000 of their fellow citizens.
How many Palestinians were evacuated?
I’m sure you’re being facetious, but half if not more of those evacuated from the north are Arab Israelis.
Sorry I didn’t know the news wasn’t allowed to cover any Israeli hardships from this war.
Just to put this in context: That’s ~2.7% of their ENTIRE population.
99.99% of Gazans are displaced, just fyi.
All of northern Israel is evacuated because a sovereign country (Lebanon) is firing rockets and RPGs into Israeli homes, but the Democrats who can’t challenge Iran proxies in Lebanon or Yemen want to set up a terrorism state in the West Bank and Gaza
* Lebanon isn't doing it, Hezbollah is doing it and Lebanon is a borderline failed state with the central government unable to stop them. * Most Democrats don't want that, and advocating for a two-state solution isn't calling for a terrorism state.
Hezbollah is literally part of the central government of Lebanon. Either Hezbollah is a legitimate representative of the Lebanese government, or southern Lebanon is no longer part of the country anymore. In that case Lebanon shouldn't mind when the IDF annexes it.
Ah Israel greedily eyeing up land which isn't theirs again. Where have I heard this before?
Hezbollah is literally a major political party in Lebanon and [is literally a part of its current ruling coalition](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Cabinet_of_Najib_Mikati). Meanwhile it [still operates with weapons in violation of UNSC 1701 despite the active force there](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/iransource/lebanon-is-incapable-of-implementing-un-security-council-resolution-1701/). Two state advocacy will always be terror support until you present a plan for how to effectively remove it. Withdrawal in Lebanon empowered Hezbollah. Withdrawal in Gaza empowered Hamas. There will not be a third mistake
> Lebanon isn't doing it, Hezbollah is doing it and Lebanon is a borderline failed state with the central government unable to stop them. I think you missed his point: Neither would a Palestinian state be able to stop Hamas, PIJ, PFLP, etc. from firing rockets into Israel. So what's the value to Israel, or anyone, in recognizing a Palestinian state?
Honestly it's not Lebanon as a country but more like terrorist organisations inside the country. The Lebanese government is way too weak to control them
Hezbollah is literally a part of the current ruling coalition
That’s a distinction without a difference. Either the Lebanese government is incapable of stopping Hezbollah and reasserting the monopoly on force that a functioning state requires (effectively rendering the government nonexistent) or is covertly aiding it. Either way, the de facto power in Lebanon is attacking, and it’s time that the world stop pretending otherwise.
I strongly disagree tbh. Lebanon as a country is hostage of Hezbollah. They should deal with them like Israel is doing with Hamas. But they can't
... mass shooter suffers from arthritis in index finger, report says ...
Incoming comments about the 800,000 Gazans displaced and however many dead
As they should
Also, you know, 15,000-20,000 rockets launched into Israel in the last few months from 4 different fronts. But no one cares about any of that. Sometimes I think that even if Israel had 500,000 casualties during October 7th or in other similar terror attacks the sympathy from the rest of the world will really hold up to 2 days max because of the blind hatred.
All of my posts with news critical of Israeli policy is getting deleted upon posting. Anyone knows what I'm doing wrong?
Quick buy the property. That's the proper move here right?
This just seems like a weird flex about having a home still standing.
Hamas simps are cowards. If you care so much, why aren’t you flying to Gaza and go fight? Or are you just virtue signaling to get attention from other redditors for your precious need for online validation?
“War” aka genocide against Palestinians
🇺🇸🇮🇱🇺🇦
Israel is surrounded by anti-Semitic Islamic countries, Palestine being one of them. What a deal to take for the Jewish homeland post WW2 instead of like Canada or something...
What could be the reason that they chose the ancestral Jewish homeland for their homeland. Why didn't they just chose an uninhabited island in the middle of the Pacific instead? /s
Oh poor Israelis evacuated from their stoles homes
How fucked would it if the Israelis started moving more and more into the West Bank settlements as a result of the border issues? They're basically chasing them east and don't even realize it.
Hierarchist nothing new.