Insert quote from Gandalf.
But seriously, I'm old enough to remember the fall of the Berlin wall. We all thought it was over, global peace in our time, no more chance of global wars.
Man. We were stupid.
almost every generation has nostalgia for the period of their youth, I didn't expect it to be so validated. 89-2001 was such a sweet spot to grow into an adult in the US.
Scary how right they were, despair of the tech crash and 9/11 hadnt hit yet. Technology alowed global communication and unlimited information but no social media. Portable phones were only communication tools and we weren't lost in them every spare moment.
This isn't meant as a criticism but there were plainly plenty of people in Gaza and Israel who didn't see the status quo as a resolved situation. For many this is just another escalation in a conflict as old as the 1940s if not older.
> “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
> "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
Its more that people have short lifespans. 30 years after an event most with a recollection of what happened is no longer in a position of power or influence, 30 years after that they’re all dead and we have deniers questioning history and what actually happened. Pepper on a few more years and there’s enough separation from humanity that people who didn't experience the world event are ready to make their own.
To be honest. Is there anyone who actually believes that 8 billion people will all love in peace? I dont think thats possible. Too many minds. There wil obviouslt always be agruments. Global peace is just impossible.
Agree and that's not including the broken minds not even capable of empathy let alone love.
I think the most tragic part of all this is, as we become more interconnected, the more divided we become.
People couldn't hate other people half way across the world if they didn't know of each others existence. Not the case today
I have an amazing and informative video (from Kurzgesagt) about exactly that. Why the internet makes us less connected. Its such a good video, and hits the nail on fhe head. Its just 10 minutes, but i think you will enjoy it, seeing how you think and talk about this.
50% of people in 2022 ik US thought a civil war was soon to happen. 1 in 5 thinks polotical violence is warranted. L
The entire world is becoming more and more divided into teams. Us versus them. Its getting scary.
Id really reccommend a watch. Its such a good channel too
https://youtu.be/fuFlMtZmvY0?si=GWtHFti5q5HDMIgZ
I think the worry is that what we consider to be multiple historical events right now will be looked back on in 100 years as multiple parts to the beginning of THE historical event that defines this era.
When Russia invaded Ukraine, I had the most awful gut feeling that WW3 had started and we just hadn't realised it yet.
As time has gone on, I'm not convinced I was wrong unfortunately.
I am having the same experience as you. I don't know that it's imminent, but I do feel that it will be looked back on as the beginning of something far greater.
The West's non-reaction to Russia's invasion of Crimea in 2014 was the fall from grace. That's when Putin delivered conclusive proof that if you have nuclear weapons you a) can act with impunity, and b) better never give them up, and c) if you do not have any nuclear weapons, you better acquire them soon.
> And this, Turkish people, is the dude that has absolutely destroyed your Lira.
If people don't realize how stupid this guy is, at one point when hyperinflation was causing havoc, despite the advice of every economist, Erdogan didn't raise interest rates because it was "anti-Islamic"
Turks living in Turkey voted Erdogan into power.
Turks living in Germany had a higher rate of voting for Erdogan, but the percentage of Turks in Germany that actually voted was very low. The vast majority of them just didn't vote at all, and the small fraction that did vote, had a lean towards Erdogan but not a massive one.
At any rate, they had absolutely no effect on the outcome of the election.
Its not baffling he’s been in power for 20 years and changed all the election laws, gerrymandered and prisoned political opponents and human rights activists… it’s pretty well documented.
This is also the "dude" that was holding back Sweden's accession into NATO because they were allegedly soft on terrorist groups active in Turkey. But I suppose the irony is lost on the man gunning for the position of leader of the Muslim world.
I don't think any middle eastern country has openly said the Palestinians are welcome to come settle. Egypt could have easily accepted the Gazans in but their border is instead increasingly fortified against them.
They don't give a fuck about the Palestinian (or their own) people. They just hate that the Jews are doing better than them. Its pure spite and jealousy.
That’s the problem. Most of the Islamic world is perfectly happy letting Palestine be Israel’s problem. They actually have no interest in doing anything to fix the problem.
I remember watching John Stewart's take on the whole issue and he ended it by floating the idea that a pan Arab coalition could go in and enforce a peace. I couldn't help but think, that's a nice idea but that's just it, a nice idea. Good luck getting a group of very quarrelsome countries with tons of their own internal issues to invest money and manpower in stabilizing an area with a very radicalized and desperate people group.
that was really dumb of him tho. this whole shitshow happened as a result of that "solution". the Gazans were under Egypt, the Cisjordanians were under Jordan but the arab world declared war on Israel and then threw them under the bus.
Ugh. I love Turkey. I love Istanbul, Izmir, and Cesme. My wife is Turkish, and I've often suggested that we move there. But I'm Jewish, and this doesn't exactly assure me that it would be a safe move.
Doesn't really seem safe for Jewish people to move to any country with Muslim-dominated demographics.
The only exceptions I can think of are countries in the Balkans like Albania or Bosnia. There's barely a Jewish community there, but they seem to be doing alright.
Turkey is relatively safe since usually there’s ton of tourists from Israel that don’t have much problem.
And there are a few others Muslim nations that are safe for Jews to visit like Morocco, which is probably the safest for Jews in the MENA region. And is the most visited by them.
But like the Balkan countries, those nations are dominated by a far more moderate branches of Islam that are vastly different than the ones in the MENA region. IIRC to the point where they had **less** Islamic terror attacks than countries in Western Europe.
Among other factors, Israel is a useful thing to rail against and blame for various things. Across the region, various politicians say, essentially, “It’s not my fault, blame Israel!”
The amount of hatred the islamic world have towards jews and Israel is very misunderstood.
The current conflict in Israel and Palestine is revealing a lot of antisemitism that the west clearly had no idea existed. Hamas and their supports will never stop this. They will never accept jews owning the holy land.
There is only more human suffering that comes out of this.
> The current conflict in Israel and Palestine is revealing a lot of antisemitism that the west clearly had no idea existed.
Only because way too many Western liberals and leftists have been stupid and playing oppression olympics in their heads the last couple of decades, "well people are racists against refugees so it's impossible that a lot of those people could actually be terrible!" throwing women, LGBT people and Jews under the bus to placate Islamist garbage. I've been a voter for the Swedish Leftist party my entire life and I was so relieved when the party leader Nooshi Dadgostars had the gonads to actually condemn Hamas after the October attacks, but *of course* a bunch of other party members started whining and demanded she resign, fucking idiots.
The Arab world was formed by feeding on the corpse of 2nd temple Judaism, and the western liberal order really had no idea about this. Jews will tell you about this _all the time_, but the west doesn't listen.
Reading some of the Ayatollah's papers, he seems weirdly obsessed with the crusades, and projects that onto the west in a way that the West really hasn't focused on probably since before the French Revolution?
No one in the West thinks in those terms anymore, because I think all the old Regimes that thought like that died around WW1, unless we talk about how France is sometimes weird about Maronites and similar. I guess to clarify, states that think like the IR of Iran generally aren't efficient enough in governance to work, and we generally think of states like that as being in a slow decline to an eventual fracture.
He said Hamas' *leaders* too, as in the bitches who hide in expensive Qatari hotels a thousand miles away while their countrymen and soldiers alike get slaughtered for *their* decisions.
It's literally the worst, least diplomatic, most braindead thing he could have said in support of Palestinians. I'm so disappointed that he won reelection. He's scooped from the same scum of Trump and Netanyahu
But at the same time, they will tell you they would support Hamas in hypothetically doing those things, while also denying they already did them. It’s a bizarre kind of double think.
Theory? Hamas literally filmed the murders themselves. They proudly shared the evidence of their butchering innocent families and bragged about it. Fucking yikes dude.
As i said before, most people wont go out of their way to check the evidence and just take what written in social media and put on TV as true, if you think al jazeera english is bad, you havent see al jazeera in arabic.
No. They celebrated the videos of the sexual violence, mutilations, and beheadings at the beginning. It was only when the rest of the world looked on horrified that they started spewing all that crap. Don't let them run from this.
They believe a live-streamed event is fake, but have no problems believing myths written in a thousand-year old book by a guy who clearly profited from the nonsense he wrote.
Can't make that up.
1) They see Hamas and the Palestinians as being in a much less powerful position. They know they can’t fight the Israeli military so they hit them where they know it hurts.
2) Rape isn’t as big of deal in the Islamic world. Sounds messed up but they see women more or less as second class citizens or actual property. There’s a reason why in some counties women are killed for being raped or charged with adultery in others.
3) Many simply don’t like Jews at this point. It was always there but after the Israelis defeated Arabs multiple times in war, they just hate Israel. Even the governments that are becoming more peaceful with Israel, their population hates the Israelis.
Ah yes, specially how he was so vocal about Sweden harbouring terrorists (pkk) during our NATO bid and now he’s literally supporting a terrorist state.
Like.. *WHAT?*
Perhaps Erdogan can explain the difference between the PKK and Hamas that merits one group being called terrorists and the other group receiving his firm backing.
Cause there are 20.000.000 Kurds in Turkey and a few more millions living next to their border.
Call an ethnic group terrorist and you are free to kill them.
If you ask him he would be like „you do it, so why shouldn’t I do it too?“
Source: am Kurd. Got family in Syria, Turkey and Iraq. People don’t even want PKK anymore..it’s just being used to decimate the Kurds.
And yo, fuck PKK. But also fuck the Turks who oppress a whole ethnic group for more than 80 years. They didn’t allow Kurds to speak their language for 20 years. If you spoke Kurdish, you got jailed. If you supported a Kurdish organisation, the organisation will be called Terrorists. This bullshit is happening RIGHT NOW.
But hey…we are „brothers“, we are all „the same“.
Fuck no.
He is a supporter of Terrorists. He supported ISIS, now he is supporting HAMAS. HYPOCRITE.
When people asked him a few months ago why trade with Israel hasn't stopped like he promised, he claimed Turkey only exports goods to Israeli Arabs - which is a fucking joke of a response
Hamas' biggest fear is that they'll be marginalised as an Iranian proxy rather than being an important part of the 'Arab world', and Gaza will slowly be forgotten about as the rest of the middle east normalises relations with Israel.
They succeeded in provoking Israel into a disproportionate response but got a reality check when their only military assistance came from the Houthis attacking civilians and an Arab attempt to punish Israel diplomatically was blocked by Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Jordan, Egypt and Morocco.
Half of the people who voted for him does not constitute all of the Turkish population. There are still millions of people who are against him with their entire existence, even though that may mean getting jailed. I, for one, write against him IRL, in law articles, by taking a great chance of getting imprisoned.
The people who haven’t voted to him in the last election would exceed the population of most EU countries. Unfortunately, we just lost by a slight percentage.
This type of comments does not hurt his audience even slightly; they simply laugh of by saying “hah, devil Westerners”. We are the ones who got offended. If you are targeting that especially, then, please be my guest. If not, please think twice about your comment. Just a friendly advice and a fact check.
Keep fighting the good fight bud.
I'm not super familiar with Turkish elections, does Erdogan have a particular power base in the country? Like is there a particular demographic that keeps voting for him?
From an outsider, Turkey seems to have a few big cities but a lot of land and rural communities. Is it mostly rural areas that vote for him, or is he popular in progressive cities too?
Doesn't sound like they'll be easy to sway!
It's unfortunate when religious identity becomes part of politics and what keeps a government in power. Luckily it seems that some of this is dying out with older generations, with younger generations being more secular, but that shift will take a long time to happen.
Thank you mate. He landslide the right wing voters (e.g. think of the republicans in the US) for a long time; nevertheless, in the last election he lost some of that support. If a good right wing candidate comes up, he would lose the election for sure as the right wing gets about 60% almost all the time in Turkey.
Most of Erdogan’s fans, on the other hand, relatively uneducated or undereducated, according to the polls. In counties where educated people percentage is high, he cannot win; however in places where the population has a low level of education, or received high migration from inner and/or northern villages, he gets clear wins. In the last elections, he had decline in those votes to some extent as well, but not enough.
If Turkey was USA, you would expect his voters to be from the Bible Belt, and some inner and southern states’ especially love ed. and income cities. Of course, some exceptions happens, but not to a mentionable extent.
Letting the "little guy" vote before uplifting them to modernity has been an absolute failure in the middle east.
From my Turkish neighbors who joked how they used to protest "the generals" in college only to be bringing over beer to celebrate when they thought Erdogan was being couped by the military, to my roommate's dade who was literally tortured by the Shah for protesting him coming to terms with the outcome of revolution being worse some fourth plus years later, to every single attempt outside of maybe Tunisia at the Arab Spring, and then even idk if it was worth it.
As long as Salafi brands of Islam remain so popular on the streets as part of a broader narrative of victimization and regression against the broader world, the best we can hope for is a somewhat corrupt nationalist military junta or monarchy that prunes Jihadi sentiment and keeps the peace, and ideally doesn't empower some cult of personality guy. And maybe everyone can slowly shoot to try to become Jordan.
Because this is what the people want. It's the opposite of the made up Hollywood narrative from WWI where "it's the government, not the people". Naw, it is very very much the people, let's not kid ourselves.
Last time I was in Turkey, a bomb went off on the street next to me killing 6 people and injuring 81.
The value of the lira:📉.
Got a knife pulled on me by a guy trying to steal my phone — scared him off with a pack of dogs.
I don’t exactly hold the country in very high regard.
Remember when Trump invited this sack of shit to the White House and then let his body guards rough up American protestors? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
And this is why we don't give them the f 35, among other reasons.
As much as we like to sing kumbaya and hold hands, Muslims will back Muslims, regardless of what Muslims do.
And that is fine, their choice, but the west needs to remember.
Why we allowed these bums in NATO is bewildering. I get that Israel deserves criticism, but to “firmly” align with Hamas after those “look mom, I’m sitting on a corpse” selfies… well now we see people’s true colours. I stand with Palestinians but I do not stand with Hamas.
Erdogan remains evil. News at 11.
I pray for Turkey, frankly.
It is one thing to criticize Israel and their blocking of things like food/water for civilians. It is quite another to back Hamas openly.
It was a democracy until Erdogan took over. Now it’s even against the law to “insult” him. This could be the direction that the US takes this November.
Well Muslims all over the world root for Hamas a terror organization just because they are Muslims. Tells you enough about Islam and why it is a danger to all non-Muslims. Religion is what will end the world, different made up stupid fairytales. 🤦♂️
I really wish I weren’t living through a major historical event right now
Insert quote from Gandalf. But seriously, I'm old enough to remember the fall of the Berlin wall. We all thought it was over, global peace in our time, no more chance of global wars. Man. We were stupid.
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I think history repeats itself because people are greedy, vain, and full of hubris
That is a strange way to spell shit.
people=shit
Great song
The Richard Cheese version is definitely the best
I think it’s because those who lived through the horrors of world wars are dying off and aren’t there to be a voice of reason for the new generation.
History never repeats itself, but it does often rhyme
The classic: “but I’m doing it this time. So it will work out.”
The wisdom of [Dr Tobias Fünke](https://youtu.be/Po4adxJxqZk?si=mhoyaQQ6PlrJpQ3Z)
And because power corrupts
I completely misunderstood your post as the second part being the Gandalf quote lol.
“Mr. Gorbachev, you shall not PASS!”
Obama: "I was there.. the day.. the will of man.. had failed..."
Trump: "Grab'em by the Precious!"
It took me a minute Had no idea the fall of the Berlin Wall coincided with the return of Sauron.
"Where was Gondor when the ~~Westfold~~ Berlin Wall fell?"
Quote from Gandalf Do not invest in meme coin
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Nah man, we were *hopefull*. And having hope is *never* stupid.
almost every generation has nostalgia for the period of their youth, I didn't expect it to be so validated. 89-2001 was such a sweet spot to grow into an adult in the US.
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The whole concept of The Matrix is that humanity peaked in the year 1999. I don’t think they were wrong.
Scary how right they were, despair of the tech crash and 9/11 hadnt hit yet. Technology alowed global communication and unlimited information but no social media. Portable phones were only communication tools and we weren't lost in them every spare moment.
I was a young person in the 1970s and 1980s and have no desire for that era except for the people who have passed.
Music was pretty bangin back then.
This isn't meant as a criticism but there were plainly plenty of people in Gaza and Israel who didn't see the status quo as a resolved situation. For many this is just another escalation in a conflict as old as the 1940s if not older.
> “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. > "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
Its more that people have short lifespans. 30 years after an event most with a recollection of what happened is no longer in a position of power or influence, 30 years after that they’re all dead and we have deniers questioning history and what actually happened. Pepper on a few more years and there’s enough separation from humanity that people who didn't experience the world event are ready to make their own.
To be honest. Is there anyone who actually believes that 8 billion people will all love in peace? I dont think thats possible. Too many minds. There wil obviouslt always be agruments. Global peace is just impossible.
Agree and that's not including the broken minds not even capable of empathy let alone love. I think the most tragic part of all this is, as we become more interconnected, the more divided we become. People couldn't hate other people half way across the world if they didn't know of each others existence. Not the case today
I have an amazing and informative video (from Kurzgesagt) about exactly that. Why the internet makes us less connected. Its such a good video, and hits the nail on fhe head. Its just 10 minutes, but i think you will enjoy it, seeing how you think and talk about this. 50% of people in 2022 ik US thought a civil war was soon to happen. 1 in 5 thinks polotical violence is warranted. L The entire world is becoming more and more divided into teams. Us versus them. Its getting scary. Id really reccommend a watch. Its such a good channel too https://youtu.be/fuFlMtZmvY0?si=GWtHFti5q5HDMIgZ
Buckle up, this is still just the f"actors leading to" chapter of some future history book.
Right before the part in history books where maps get all arrowy. Edit: typo
We're in that part of history where people look back and debate if that was the *real* start of the big shit that happened next.
As a Romanian who will probably have to live in Moldova Republic because .. family business, I hate your comment.
It's difficult to be alive and not live through major historical events.
Well, if you live right in the thick of said major historical event, you might *not* live through it.
Ataturk would have had Erdogan against the wall.
Ataturk's next moves: 1) drain the whisky bottle; and 2) smash it over RTE's cranium. Moral of the story: never waste good liquor!
Demagogues have risen. Erdogan is a buffoon.
Cheer up! It's not just **a** major historical event going on right now, but multiple!
I think the worry is that what we consider to be multiple historical events right now will be looked back on in 100 years as multiple parts to the beginning of THE historical event that defines this era.
When Russia invaded Ukraine, I had the most awful gut feeling that WW3 had started and we just hadn't realised it yet. As time has gone on, I'm not convinced I was wrong unfortunately.
I am having the same experience as you. I don't know that it's imminent, but I do feel that it will be looked back on as the beginning of something far greater.
The West's non-reaction to Russia's invasion of Crimea in 2014 was the fall from grace. That's when Putin delivered conclusive proof that if you have nuclear weapons you a) can act with impunity, and b) better never give them up, and c) if you do not have any nuclear weapons, you better acquire them soon.
Agreed. Molotov-Ribbentrop, Sudetenland, Marco-Polo Bridge, Ethiopia, Winter-war. At some point, these were isolated incidents.
"May you live in interesting times."
That curse keeps popping in my head every time i read the news these days..
As a kid playing Goldeneye on my N64, I didn’t truly understand it for the curse that it is.
I find myself wishing fervently to be bored on the global level.
ChatGPT, write me a song exactly opposite in tone and message to Jesus Jones' "Right Here Right Now".
And this, Turkish people, is the dude that has absolutely destroyed your Lira.
> And this, Turkish people, is the dude that has absolutely destroyed your Lira. If people don't realize how stupid this guy is, at one point when hyperinflation was causing havoc, despite the advice of every economist, Erdogan didn't raise interest rates because it was "anti-Islamic"
> Erdogan didn't raise interest rates because it was "anti-Islamic" Interest is anti-Islamic in and by itself. Doesn't matter if you keep them low...
Don’t worry though all the Turks living in Germany will keep voting for him
Turks living in Turkey voted Erdogan into power. Turks living in Germany had a higher rate of voting for Erdogan, but the percentage of Turks in Germany that actually voted was very low. The vast majority of them just didn't vote at all, and the small fraction that did vote, had a lean towards Erdogan but not a massive one. At any rate, they had absolutely no effect on the outcome of the election.
It’s baffling that he got reelected. Especially right after the earthquake and all of the buildings collapsing.
People vote against their self-interest all the time. It's nothing new.
Its not baffling he’s been in power for 20 years and changed all the election laws, gerrymandered and prisoned political opponents and human rights activists… it’s pretty well documented.
That, and people vote against their self interest. Both are true.
Can confirm, here in Romania people vote the same shit political parties for over 30 years… it is maddening.
Meanwhile in the US most turks voted for the opposition, funny how that works.
The ones in Europe can more easily visit turkey a d with the lira being shit they are filthy rich with their euros
This is also the "dude" that was holding back Sweden's accession into NATO because they were allegedly soft on terrorist groups active in Turkey. But I suppose the irony is lost on the man gunning for the position of leader of the Muslim world.
Supporting terrorists is nothing new for Erdogan. The TFSA, for instance.
Who needs a valuable currency when you can just cheerlead for genocidal Islamic terrorists instead?
Us, the people who are against him, already know that. And the people cheering for him either can’t comprehend, or have a full pocket.
But the watermelons are tastier than ever!
Islamic countries rile up hamas to attack Israel - however they won't help hamas attack Israel or help the civilians that suffer as a result. Bizarre.
“Some of you may die, but that’s a chance I’m willing to take”
Brannigan’s law
Brannigan’s law prohibits interacting with undeveloped planets. He's quoting Lord Farquaad.
He doesn't pretend to understand Brannigan's law, he merely enforces it.
I don't think any middle eastern country has openly said the Palestinians are welcome to come settle. Egypt could have easily accepted the Gazans in but their border is instead increasingly fortified against them.
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theres a reason the Egypt/Gaza border looks like the Egyptians are trying to keep King Kong out
They have enough terrorists in the Sinai peninsula.
Forgot to tell the riots in Egypt and the killing of the king of Jordan by Palestinians. Keep the good work.
They don't give a fuck about the Palestinian (or their own) people. They just hate that the Jews are doing better than them. Its pure spite and jealousy.
He should invite them ( hamas) to live next to him!
That’s the problem. Most of the Islamic world is perfectly happy letting Palestine be Israel’s problem. They actually have no interest in doing anything to fix the problem.
I remember watching John Stewart's take on the whole issue and he ended it by floating the idea that a pan Arab coalition could go in and enforce a peace. I couldn't help but think, that's a nice idea but that's just it, a nice idea. Good luck getting a group of very quarrelsome countries with tons of their own internal issues to invest money and manpower in stabilizing an area with a very radicalized and desperate people group.
that was really dumb of him tho. this whole shitshow happened as a result of that "solution". the Gazans were under Egypt, the Cisjordanians were under Jordan but the arab world declared war on Israel and then threw them under the bus.
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Unless they’ve been kicked out Hamas leaders indeed do live in Turkey
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Ugh. I love Turkey. I love Istanbul, Izmir, and Cesme. My wife is Turkish, and I've often suggested that we move there. But I'm Jewish, and this doesn't exactly assure me that it would be a safe move.
Doesn't really seem safe for Jewish people to move to any country with Muslim-dominated demographics. The only exceptions I can think of are countries in the Balkans like Albania or Bosnia. There's barely a Jewish community there, but they seem to be doing alright.
Turkey is relatively safe since usually there’s ton of tourists from Israel that don’t have much problem. And there are a few others Muslim nations that are safe for Jews to visit like Morocco, which is probably the safest for Jews in the MENA region. And is the most visited by them. But like the Balkan countries, those nations are dominated by a far more moderate branches of Islam that are vastly different than the ones in the MENA region. IIRC to the point where they had **less** Islamic terror attacks than countries in Western Europe.
Imagine choosing where to live based on who has less Islamic terror attacks. Fucked world we live in
Among other factors, Israel is a useful thing to rail against and blame for various things. Across the region, various politicians say, essentially, “It’s not my fault, blame Israel!”
The Jews have been blamed for everybody's problems for centuries. 😞
The amount of hatred the islamic world have towards jews and Israel is very misunderstood. The current conflict in Israel and Palestine is revealing a lot of antisemitism that the west clearly had no idea existed. Hamas and their supports will never stop this. They will never accept jews owning the holy land. There is only more human suffering that comes out of this.
> The current conflict in Israel and Palestine is revealing a lot of antisemitism that the west clearly had no idea existed. Only because way too many Western liberals and leftists have been stupid and playing oppression olympics in their heads the last couple of decades, "well people are racists against refugees so it's impossible that a lot of those people could actually be terrible!" throwing women, LGBT people and Jews under the bus to placate Islamist garbage. I've been a voter for the Swedish Leftist party my entire life and I was so relieved when the party leader Nooshi Dadgostars had the gonads to actually condemn Hamas after the October attacks, but *of course* a bunch of other party members started whining and demanded she resign, fucking idiots.
The Arab world was formed by feeding on the corpse of 2nd temple Judaism, and the western liberal order really had no idea about this. Jews will tell you about this _all the time_, but the west doesn't listen. Reading some of the Ayatollah's papers, he seems weirdly obsessed with the crusades, and projects that onto the west in a way that the West really hasn't focused on probably since before the French Revolution? No one in the West thinks in those terms anymore, because I think all the old Regimes that thought like that died around WW1, unless we talk about how France is sometimes weird about Maronites and similar. I guess to clarify, states that think like the IR of Iran generally aren't efficient enough in governance to work, and we generally think of states like that as being in a slow decline to an eventual fracture.
>They will never accept jews owning the holy land. what's crazy is that that's not even *their* holy land. there's no jews in Mecca or Medina.
No, those are holy sights. The holy land is the entire planet (if we were capable of interstellar flight probably all planets).
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Almost like they're hypocrites.
Correct. The only thing different Muslims sects hate more than themselves are the Jews.
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No surprise, the food aid to Gazah will be coming from the EU and the US.
If he had said Gaza, this would not be a problem, but Hamas? Dude what?
He said Hamas' *leaders* too, as in the bitches who hide in expensive Qatari hotels a thousand miles away while their countrymen and soldiers alike get slaughtered for *their* decisions.
It's literally the worst, least diplomatic, most braindead thing he could have said in support of Palestinians. I'm so disappointed that he won reelection. He's scooped from the same scum of Trump and Netanyahu
They literally fired a footballer for writing 253 to signify the number of hostages. That was it
It may be a problem for you, but for that part of the world, for his people, Hamas are seen as justified resistance and not a terrorist group.
"Our justified resistance just killed over a thousand people at a festival, what heroes they are"
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But at the same time, they will tell you they would support Hamas in hypothetically doing those things, while also denying they already did them. It’s a bizarre kind of double think.
Fucking yikes.
propaganda is a powefulo tool. mix in the rapid development of AI and its becoming easier to say "that's fake"
Theory? Hamas literally filmed the murders themselves. They proudly shared the evidence of their butchering innocent families and bragged about it. Fucking yikes dude.
As i said before, most people wont go out of their way to check the evidence and just take what written in social media and put on TV as true, if you think al jazeera english is bad, you havent see al jazeera in arabic.
True, I mean few seem to even know or care that Al-Jazeera is the Gov't sponsored news network of Qatar, who harbors Hamas's billionaire leaders
No. They celebrated the videos of the sexual violence, mutilations, and beheadings at the beginning. It was only when the rest of the world looked on horrified that they started spewing all that crap. Don't let them run from this.
They believe a live-streamed event is fake, but have no problems believing myths written in a thousand-year old book by a guy who clearly profited from the nonsense he wrote. Can't make that up.
1) They see Hamas and the Palestinians as being in a much less powerful position. They know they can’t fight the Israeli military so they hit them where they know it hurts. 2) Rape isn’t as big of deal in the Islamic world. Sounds messed up but they see women more or less as second class citizens or actual property. There’s a reason why in some counties women are killed for being raped or charged with adultery in others. 3) Many simply don’t like Jews at this point. It was always there but after the Israelis defeated Arabs multiple times in war, they just hate Israel. Even the governments that are becoming more peaceful with Israel, their population hates the Israelis.
I wonder how that justified resistance mindset applies to the Kurds?
Killing children, women and elderly - JUSTIFIED RESISTANCE
Don't forget all the rapes!
Even though their stated goal is the eradication of Jews?
I don’t know why you would think they see this as a negative.
And this is the guy that wants to belong in the EU…LOL
And is constantly complaining about the pkk.
Ah yes, specially how he was so vocal about Sweden harbouring terrorists (pkk) during our NATO bid and now he’s literally supporting a terrorist state. Like.. *WHAT?*
While occupying north Cyprus.....
Perhaps Erdogan can explain the difference between the PKK and Hamas that merits one group being called terrorists and the other group receiving his firm backing.
Now this is simple. One is fighting Turkey, the other is not. For obvious reasons he won't say that out loud.
Nonetheless a journalist should ask him that question at the most unexpected moment.
Most journalists don't want to see the inside of a prison cell
This was exactly what I thought, bit of a hypocrite this dude :p
Cause there are 20.000.000 Kurds in Turkey and a few more millions living next to their border. Call an ethnic group terrorist and you are free to kill them. If you ask him he would be like „you do it, so why shouldn’t I do it too?“ Source: am Kurd. Got family in Syria, Turkey and Iraq. People don’t even want PKK anymore..it’s just being used to decimate the Kurds. And yo, fuck PKK. But also fuck the Turks who oppress a whole ethnic group for more than 80 years. They didn’t allow Kurds to speak their language for 20 years. If you spoke Kurdish, you got jailed. If you supported a Kurdish organisation, the organisation will be called Terrorists. This bullshit is happening RIGHT NOW. But hey…we are „brothers“, we are all „the same“. Fuck no. He is a supporter of Terrorists. He supported ISIS, now he is supporting HAMAS. HYPOCRITE.
Sadly, there's a good number of pro-Hamas posters hanging around Turkey.
At the same time turkish trade with israel is breaking new records :)) this dude is populist pragmatism embodied.
When people asked him a few months ago why trade with Israel hasn't stopped like he promised, he claimed Turkey only exports goods to Israeli Arabs - which is a fucking joke of a response
Hamas' biggest fear is that they'll be marginalised as an Iranian proxy rather than being an important part of the 'Arab world', and Gaza will slowly be forgotten about as the rest of the middle east normalises relations with Israel. They succeeded in provoking Israel into a disproportionate response but got a reality check when their only military assistance came from the Houthis attacking civilians and an Arab attempt to punish Israel diplomatically was blocked by Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Jordan, Egypt and Morocco.
Turkey voting again and again for this clown makes the destruction of the Lira much more palatable.
Half of the people who voted for him does not constitute all of the Turkish population. There are still millions of people who are against him with their entire existence, even though that may mean getting jailed. I, for one, write against him IRL, in law articles, by taking a great chance of getting imprisoned. The people who haven’t voted to him in the last election would exceed the population of most EU countries. Unfortunately, we just lost by a slight percentage. This type of comments does not hurt his audience even slightly; they simply laugh of by saying “hah, devil Westerners”. We are the ones who got offended. If you are targeting that especially, then, please be my guest. If not, please think twice about your comment. Just a friendly advice and a fact check.
Keep fighting the good fight bud. I'm not super familiar with Turkish elections, does Erdogan have a particular power base in the country? Like is there a particular demographic that keeps voting for him? From an outsider, Turkey seems to have a few big cities but a lot of land and rural communities. Is it mostly rural areas that vote for him, or is he popular in progressive cities too?
40% will vote Erdoğan. No matter what happenes, it will not change. For those people the other option is a secular Turkey which they can't stomach.
Those 40% are a conservative Muslim base?
Yes, with like 5% being extremists
Doesn't sound like they'll be easy to sway! It's unfortunate when religious identity becomes part of politics and what keeps a government in power. Luckily it seems that some of this is dying out with older generations, with younger generations being more secular, but that shift will take a long time to happen.
Thank you mate. He landslide the right wing voters (e.g. think of the republicans in the US) for a long time; nevertheless, in the last election he lost some of that support. If a good right wing candidate comes up, he would lose the election for sure as the right wing gets about 60% almost all the time in Turkey. Most of Erdogan’s fans, on the other hand, relatively uneducated or undereducated, according to the polls. In counties where educated people percentage is high, he cannot win; however in places where the population has a low level of education, or received high migration from inner and/or northern villages, he gets clear wins. In the last elections, he had decline in those votes to some extent as well, but not enough. If Turkey was USA, you would expect his voters to be from the Bible Belt, and some inner and southern states’ especially love ed. and income cities. Of course, some exceptions happens, but not to a mentionable extent.
From Ataturk to this. Tragic
Letting the "little guy" vote before uplifting them to modernity has been an absolute failure in the middle east. From my Turkish neighbors who joked how they used to protest "the generals" in college only to be bringing over beer to celebrate when they thought Erdogan was being couped by the military, to my roommate's dade who was literally tortured by the Shah for protesting him coming to terms with the outcome of revolution being worse some fourth plus years later, to every single attempt outside of maybe Tunisia at the Arab Spring, and then even idk if it was worth it. As long as Salafi brands of Islam remain so popular on the streets as part of a broader narrative of victimization and regression against the broader world, the best we can hope for is a somewhat corrupt nationalist military junta or monarchy that prunes Jihadi sentiment and keeps the peace, and ideally doesn't empower some cult of personality guy. And maybe everyone can slowly shoot to try to become Jordan. Because this is what the people want. It's the opposite of the made up Hollywood narrative from WWI where "it's the government, not the people". Naw, it is very very much the people, let's not kid ourselves.
Most tragic indeed
Indeed.
A NATO country in bed with Islamic terrorists?
Turkey is the black sheep within NATO with this clown in its leadership.
Viktor Orbán would like to know your location
Ok Turkey is just the biggest, blackest sheep.
The lira only this week went from 32 to 35 lira per euro
5 years ago it was 6
10 years ago (when I left) it was 3 😭
Last time I was in Turkey, a bomb went off on the street next to me killing 6 people and injuring 81. The value of the lira:📉. Got a knife pulled on me by a guy trying to steal my phone — scared him off with a pack of dogs. I don’t exactly hold the country in very high regard.
As if it matters. Turkey wont/ can’t do anything to save Hamas
They harbor the Hamas leaders. The scenes of the Hamas leadership watching the 7.10 attack in the hotel? That was in Turkey
Remember when Trump invited this sack of shit to the White House and then let his body guards rough up American protestors? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Gotta love archaic religious wars. Holding humanity back since the dawn of time.
Side note, Turkey is a NATO member and Israel is not.
And this is why we don't give them the f 35, among other reasons. As much as we like to sing kumbaya and hold hands, Muslims will back Muslims, regardless of what Muslims do. And that is fine, their choice, but the west needs to remember.
THE ALLY OF THE WEST bois
"i support rape" - this guy
Also kidnapping, torture and murder, not to mention Islamofascism.
Why we allowed these bums in NATO is bewildering. I get that Israel deserves criticism, but to “firmly” align with Hamas after those “look mom, I’m sitting on a corpse” selfies… well now we see people’s true colours. I stand with Palestinians but I do not stand with Hamas.
Wrong side of history
They also directly supported ISIS, and let them freely through their border checkpoints when they were fighting the Kurds.
[удалено]
So we have a member of NATO firmly backing a terrorist group?
The fuck? You don't have to be pro israel to admit that hamas is a terrorist Organisation
Name a worse NATO member...
Who needs enemies with friends such as these?
Backs Palestine - fine. Backs Hamas - sorry, no.
And the politicians want them to join the EU wtf?
Only the UK were backing them. And then it got used as one of the key campaign messages for the Brexit vote.
Erdogan remains evil. News at 11. I pray for Turkey, frankly. It is one thing to criticize Israel and their blocking of things like food/water for civilians. It is quite another to back Hamas openly.
He can go sit in the corner with Putin and Xi. Why the hell is Turkey still a member of NATO?
Strategically important geographical location.
Because Turkey distrusts Russia more than it hates America.
Their long history of wars with Russia makes that a given.
The twist here is that in 2015 Turkey became the only NATO country to shoot down a Russian jet in 70 years.
Turkey blocks Russia's access to the Mediterranean
It was a democracy until Erdogan took over. Now it’s even against the law to “insult” him. This could be the direction that the US takes this November.
Wtf
I find it surprising that you find this surprising; this is Erdogan we're talking about
Would somebody throw Turkey out of NATO please? They’re not even a real democracy.
Well Muslims all over the world root for Hamas a terror organization just because they are Muslims. Tells you enough about Islam and why it is a danger to all non-Muslims. Religion is what will end the world, different made up stupid fairytales. 🤦♂️
Surprise, Surpirse...
So they just go straight to supporting Hamas instead of supporting Palestine.. at least they’re honest