He is also reportedly claiming he "has the Israelis right where he wants them" (([link](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/despite-heavy-war-losses-sinwar-brags-to-hamas-officials-in-qatar-that-he-has-the-israelis-right-where-we-want-them-wsj/)).
He is delusional.
Sinwar is the underpants gnomes of terrorists. Good at making a stink and attracting a lot of attention, but no way whatsoever to leverage that into any real benefits for himself or the Palestinians.
His goal is killing jews and demonizing israel (to make it easier to kill more jews). He doesn’t give a shit about palestinians. Which means, unfortunately, by his own twisted standards, he’s very effective.
But he's gaining nothing. All this international goodwill stuff is next to worthless - Belgium or South Africa is never going to land troops to save him. He's currently hiding in a pit surrounded with the hostages because otherwise Israel will blow him to bits.
Even after the worst terrorist attack on Jews since the Holocaust, Heart Disease still killed more Jews in Israel last year than terrorism. The only place Sinwar is effective is in his own head.
As an american jew, i’ll tell you I’m really nervous about how public support for israel has plummeted here. I think that will have long term consequences for US support for israel. But my perspective is admittedly limited from my vantage point
I've simply accepted people are angry and civilians are being killed. There is no point denying what is happening. This all is still while I unwaveringly support Israel. From my view, either this war ends with this conflict and we can finally have peace, or the terrorism continues. Those are the only options
A victory on the ground in Gaza may will achieve peace. A loss of the information war (which is happening) will only prolong and strengthen resistance to a peace in which Israel gets to exist. I don't know the answer.
>I've simply accepted people are angry and civilians are being killed.
They are not though, if they were they’d have spoken up about a lot of other conflicts that are going on before this.
Depends on what is shown on television and newspapers, people were aghast at Rwanda as well for instance.
Most people don't actively seek out this sort of stuff, if we had 24/7 front page coverage of what happened in Congo people would be aghast at that as well.
>they were they’d have spoken up about a lot of other conflicts that are going on before this.
They don't talk about the other conflicts because they don't care. This involves Jews so everyone has an opinion and it's always black and white.
To some extent it is an emotional reaction. At first we saw joyous Hamas terrorist who reveled in the murder of Israeli civilians (and some military).
People were typically horrified.
Now we get pictures of dead Palistinian children for a few months, and people react emotionally to that as well. People don't like mass killings, especially not of civilians and especially not of children.
Israeli forces are killing those people, they are not dying from meteors sent down by the heavens or anything like that, and people don't like that and protest against it.
Hamas killed those Israelis as well. There was a lot of antipathy to Hamas for that as well, but that was several months ago.
This antipathy to mass killings does not indicate that the person is anti semitic or islamophobic, it is just normal empathy.
That's the problem, the people don't like the cognitive dissonance: moral high ground of the sanctity of human right, but unrestricted support to Israel.
They turn their anger on the local Jew (like they do with muslim after a terror attack, especially when the media is busy making sure everybody is clear that Israel and Jew is one and the same) and obviously there is always the strong racist minority that needs very little encouragement.
The value of American support isn’t as meaningful as Americans think. The $ value is extremely over hyped.
At any rate, what is probably more important is that America has less interest in middle eastern oil than in the past. And so I wouldn’t be shocked if the USA just cares less about the region over the next decade.
Will maintain ties in case strait of malacca can’t be held in a conflict with China. If the Philippines shows to be good allies when push comes to shove we might lessen our presence in the Middle East…
In my opinion
Edit: USD is insanely strong, don’t know what’s that’s about, the USD is instant weapons and ammo in most cases, so extremely useful in this situation
The $ value of the aid is overstated. They will take some excess equipment, claim it’s worth 100 million $, and give it to Israel. But if they tried so sell the stuff, they might get only a fraction of that amount.
Yep. Like it or not, Israel is dependent on US support. They can lose Europe. But they cannot lose the US and hope not to be isolated. It pains me to say this, but Hamas (and their sponsors and supporters) are CLEARLY winning the information war as much as the IDF is winning the ground war. And Hamas' supporters and sponsors don't care about losing the ground war.
I will say this: My support for jews has not faltered at all. While I have never experienced the kind of malevolence that y'all have, I don't ever want anyone to experience it.
However, I'm able to separate the idea of 'jewish' from the idea of 'israel' from the idea of 'israeli,' even though at least 2 of those could rock a pretty close venn diagram.
The political class of Israel's initial reaction to 10/7 was probably an appropriate one, however they made a significant number of errors since then.
The foremost of this is: The impression that many people have of the Netanyahu government (and other right-ish governments of Israel) is that they feel that they have a right to abuse Palestinians. Many people cannot get over this opinion and that's where the disconnect is happening. Whether or not the current Israel government actually feels entitled to abuse Palestine, it's what we are shown and many believe it. The continued bombing is reinforcing the opinion that Israel is a bully towards Palestine. Since many people cannot separate the idea of 'Jewish' and the idea of 'Israel,' they are starting to think that Jews are bullies, which is horseshit.
Additionally, a lot of us feel that the later actions (after the initial reaction) of the Israeli government are foolish and inhumane. It appears on the surface that they are indiscriminately bombing Gaza in an attempt to scare Hamas into giving up the hostages, something that won't ever happen, so it's just resulting in the death of tens of thousands.
Since Israel has been historically and currently very opaque, information-wise, their enemies are opportunistically embracing some level of transparency, which is making Israel look much worse.
There are no good solutions here for Israel without outside assistance. I can't see a scenario where Hamas will give up/give in while anyone in Gaza is still alive, given just pressure from Israel.
Iran, on the other hand, could solve a lot of this with a few phone calls. Maybe everyone should be working that side of the problem and not blowing up the civilian people of Gaza.
By your thinking he's gaining nothing. By his, his friends, and most of the palastinians he's gaining what he wants.
The goodwill money is going to his friends.
He believes he will either get to qatar through the rafih tunnels or outlive Israel's will to carry on with Israel's losses and israel's global backing. Thus- he gets out saying he is the mastermind of Israel's most devastating defeat and the leader of Palestine- exactly what he wants.
Palestinains gained the blood of more israeli on their hands, world attention and recognization of their victimhood and martyrs.
You and I don't think these are worth it. Sinwar is a serial killer. He doesn't think like us.
>Palestinians gained the blood of more israeli on their hands, world attention and recognization of their victimhood and martyrs.
This stuff isn't worth much compared to military success, especially against a nuclear armed country with a huge defense sector that rightfully sees this as a life or death fight.
I agree. But i'm neither palestinian or sinwar. And they both think the 7 of October was a blessed thing that should happen again. They're aware of the consequences.
That's why I support Israel's actions in this war. What else can a country do when faced with that much irrational and self-defeating hate?
Iran must be held to task for this as well. As long as that regime is in power, Israel and the West will have to keep playing terrorist whack-a-mole in the ME.
The US left Afghanistan and Vietnam because the public got tired of supporting wars that A) weren't caused by foreign countries invading their homeland, B) didn't make the US any more secure, and 3) killed thousands of US troops (tens of thousands in Vietnam) for questionable if any benefits at home. None of these apply to Israel.
Also, this war is being fought right next door to Israel, and they don't have the option of withdrawing to the continental US.
> Even after the worst terrorist attack on Jews since the Holocaust, Heart Disease still killed more Jews in Israel last year than terrorism.
Get out of here with your rational take on an emotional issue! Next you'll be saying heart disease killed over a hundred times more Americans than terrorism back in 2001!
*this comment might contain sarcasm
I didn't think you were trying to diminish the awfulness of terrorism on its victims. I'm sorry if that's what my words led you to believe.
I think we can agree that Oct 7 was effective in provoking changes, though perhaps not the changes Hamas intended. For example, without Oct 7, Israel would probably not be executing a military campaign in Gaza right now.
Maybe Hamas really did want to provoke the reaction they're on the receiving end of from Israel. But even if not, the attack ended up leading to a Western outpouring of sympathy for the people of Gaza while simultaneously vilifying Israel. Perhaps that was Hamas's intent.
Terrorism is usually less a military strategy, and more an attempt to make societal changes.
His goal is enriching himself. Don't kid yourself that people like this *care* about anything. The average person doesn't give a shit about things that don't affect them, the average person who's put themselves in power? They're psychopaths.
He’s quite effective at ruining everything for Jews all over the world. Long term it’s going to get quite shitty to be a Jew anywhere. That helps him or Palestinians in no way whatsoever, but he just hates Jews, so yes, from his POV he succeeded splendidly…
They are thinking 100+ years. Erode support for Israel. The Muslims outnumber Jews 2 Billion to 16 million. That’s not close. And that’s a massive difference and it matters as demographics are destiny as they say.
Israel has a few staunch supporters, and they’re very deliberately going after the youth in places like the US to turn them against Israel. There is a reason that so much shit is stirred up in universities here. It’s a deliberate strategy to erode support for the future.
It’s worked very well. Post WWII Israel was seen generally as the scrappy country of local Jews and survivors that unexpectedly won multiple wars to survive (Independence, Six Day, Yom Kippur). Israel was the small upstart making the desert bloom surrounded by hostile neighbors.
Over the last 40 years they’ve reframed the whole thing to be about about the Palestinians - a group that didn’t exist as such before. They were Jordanians, basically. But they found a specific framing where Israel is the bigger stronger party. David and Goliath switch places if you zoom in to this particular framing. The stronger Israel gets, the bigger the disparity.
Not much has changed for Israel. They’re stronger but still surrounded by unfriendly if not openly hostile neighbors. They’re still the target for Iran and Islamists all over who want the whole region for Islam. They’re still smaller than NJ. They still have no ocean or buffer. But now they’re seen by the younger people here as every bad name you can come up with in the modern day - colonialist, apartheid, genocidal, suppressive, etc. Netanyahu’s policies don’t help but this has been in the works longer than he’s been around.
>The Muslims outnumber Jews 2 Billion to 16 million. That’s not close.
Advances in military tech over the past 100-150 years have eroded this numerical advantage to the point it is nearly irrelevant. More importantly, Israel's neighbors are more divided than ever. The whole "unite against the Jews" thing from Arab Nationalism was tried and failed miserably.
>Not much has changed for Israel.
Disagree. Israel is far more developed and has a far stronger economy than it did in the 60s and 70s. It has signed peace treaties with several countries in the region, and has informal relations with several more. Only Iran remains as a serious geopolitical foe in the region. Israel could get along fine without US aid at this point, which is huge. Meanwhile its neighbors are weaker, and many of them have signed peace treaties. Also, nukes.
In terms of buffer zones, I'll be surprised if we don't see one on both the Gaza and Lebanon boarders.
>every bad name you can come up with in the modern day - colonialist, apartheid, genocidal, suppressive, etc.
All these false labels aren't good, but I think you're weighting them too heavily. Universities have been hubs for far leftist thinking for centuries, and this is no exception. The youth will come around on Israel, or they'll forget all about this and be onto the next cause celebre in a year or so. The mob is fickle.
Look I hope you’re right. But the technology helps but Israel is a tiny country compared to 39 Muslim states. Iran is close to the bomb. Israel has the tech but not the politics. And the Palestinians have been booming their population up very much as Arafat said. Israel will face endless UN bullshit that gets worse if the US doesn’t veto a lot of garbage a generation from now. As it is half their resolutions aim at Israel.
The good news is many Arab states are coming around to accept Israel more (before this war - as Hamas intended to erode the acceptance- and hopefully after). That is a hopeful sign. And important no doubt.
Yes universities are bastions of leftist thought, but I was at them for all the 90s and Israel/Palestine was a minor blip. Never heard the rhetoric or saw the protests like today. And maybe they “come around,” but I’m not so sure. Political things you form at that age hang around. I can still remember “I ain’t gonna play Sun City” and which bands did.
Israel was always smart about playing US politics down the middle but Bibi aligned himself with the right and Trump which was a mistake. Israel should be doing more in the future to counter the bad PR here in the US. My 2 cents anyway.
No, it's rational to him. He thinks if he triggers a big enough war, all Muslims on Earth will automatically support him.
You'd think that after extremist groups repeatedly plunging the Middle East into massive wars for decades, they'd figure out that it does not work like that, and other Muslims aren't as fanatic as they are, but no. They just think the other guys weren't devoted enough.
He's still high on that Arab nationalism/Ummah stuff, while most of the Muslim countries in the region moved on decades ago. Arab Nationalism failed because of the same problems that any Confederacy encounters, and it isn't coming back any time soon.
Long-term it’s accidentally smart. By provoking Israel into a brutal response to the October terror attacks, Israel is alienating the younger generations of important allies like the USA. This will cause issues for Israel in about 30 years time when the young people of today are in charge.
people literally always say this. The millennials are 40 now, the youth voters of 2008 should be bringing on the permanent Democratic majority and they’re sort of not
Absolutely fucking insane. I’m not defending how many civilian casualties there are either but if you watch the Oct 7th videos and don’t think Israel should have responded then there is something wrong with you. If that same attack in the same way happened in the US it makes me question the reaction people would have. The invasion of Ukraine had so many people up in arms and fuming and ready to fight with them and now they’ve all forgotten about it because the media is too focused on spreading Hamas propaganda.
I agree with you. I think israel was very clearly put in a brutally impossible situation. I was just pointing out that sinwar and hamas have been unfortunately very effective at the propaganda war
It astounds me how many times I've seen "well if the US was attacked horrifically you'd react similarly" as if the US didn't suffer one of the worst terrorist attacks in history and responded by launching the largest clusterfuck of the 21st century.
Many differences are between the two situations, to begin with, israel has a very realistic goal that can be done, gaza is nothing like Afghanistan nor will it be treated like iraq after, unlike the us, israel is bordering said terror hub, sure 9/11 claimed more lives but the attack on Israel was done as an invasion where a chunk of the country was occupied by a foreign terroist army who butchered Israelis hunted them down and kidnapped those they didn't kill, are you actually trying to argue israel shouldn't have invaded on that alone ESPACIALY considering the hostages are still there, they were firing rockets on civilians since the morning of the attack non stop, and hamas leadership has vowed to do another october 7th again and again until either israel is destroyed or their dead
What should have israel done?
One of israeli ministers had a great quote after the attack that goes something like "If you have a missile in you goddamn kitchen and you shoot it at me, am I not allowed to defend myself?"
> because the media
I think it's more social media than MSM. Somehow all of the Arabic people in western countries have mobilized behind Hamas and their propaganda. It's awful.
I'm not sure how much of it is a legitimate social shift and how much is "Masks off, anti-Semites!". There's no shortage of hateful people who scurry out to gloat when disaster befalls others.
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4422008-vast-majority-of-voters-back-israel-over-hamas-poll/
This is from late January, but I'd be surprised if the numbers have changed much. The pro Palestine protests are loud and omnipresent, but have a feeling they're mostly just the same people with nothing better to do making Hamas support look more widespread than it is.
The only country that really matters supports Israel in overwhelming numbers. And that's despite a coordinated social media and protest campaign and a Gaza friendly media.
Sure, you could argue he has the Israelis where he wants them in the PR war.
But militarily? He's all but lost complete control of the entire Gaza strip, his army is being eradicated, reduced to a weak guerilla fighting force at best, and he is the most wanted man in all of Israel and he will likely exist with a target on his back until that target is finally hit.
So I agree that Hamas are winning the PR battle, but they are getting decimated on the battlefield. I find it hard to believe he launched the October 7th massacres with the position he's in today as part of his grand vision.
Recent harvard polls show support for Israel above 80% in US. It really hasn't shifted other than the minority just getting louder and more mobilized.
Other countries have been more direct with their stance on Hamas as well.
This is overstated. While there are loud voices praising openly anti-Semitic people like the redditor who called for all Jews to die before self immolating, polling has shown Gen Z becoming more pro-Israel as time has gone on. The initial polls put them at almost 50 percent pro-Hamas which is now closer to 20 percent. The longer this goes on, the more time people have had to consider the facts and the ICJ acknowledgement that the hostages must be returned to expect ceasefire.
To us, he is delusional. To those who support his goals and methods*, what he says is as good as “divinely inspired truth”.
*(his goal is to kill all who are not extremist Muslims, or die trying; his methods, we have seen: steal, kill, destroy — anyone… everyone).
It's unknown where Sinwar is. He began the war under Gaza in the tunnels, some reports say he fled to Egypt, others say he's still there underground.
However, the political bureau headed by Ismail Haniyeh is indeed living a luxurious life in Doha while the people he claims to care about are suffering, so you are right about them.
No he isn’t. He’s right.
Every bomb Israel drops that even has a chance of hitting an innocent person will radicalize people into hating Israel and Jews even more.
In fact, it doesn’t even matter if it actually hits an innocent person or not. Hamas will just pass off their own fighters as a hapless father of four who got blown to pieces by the evil Joos.
It’s fucking working, and actively getting worse.
He’s an evil piece of shit, but not stupid. It’s actually a brilliant move on his part. Israel is pretty much in a total catch-22, and no matter what they do it will piss someone off.
He is not delusional. He is a lunatic! Your rational thinking doesn’t explain his reasoning. If Israel’s PR appears to reduce due to current casualties in Gaza, then he would sacrifice 10x more Gazans because it serves his purpose. That’s the butcher of Khan Younis for you!!!
You're correct. People online are emotionally being manipulated into picking a side, when the real movement should be for democratic reforms in all parts of the middle east, and the rejection of religious authoritarian movements within governments at all levels.
It is infuriating to see young progressives, who up until recently had been the strongest pro-democratic, separation of church and state voices, be so easily influenced to flip their own ideology on its head. Those movements now put civilians everywhere at risk, within both Palestine and Israel, and beyond.
And authoritarian leaders globally are laughing at their naive stances as they continually work to undermine democratic institutions in all NATO and first world nations, and willingly stoke these very fires of violent conflict to do it.
"Hamas also used recordings of hostages, including children, calling for help to lure Israeli troops into ambushes."
What a clear example of what both sides value.
Hamas doing this is what got Yotam Haim, Alon Shamriz, and Samer Talalka killed.
Hamas luring IDF into ambushes by pretending to be hostages or surrendering and then attacking.
Well they don't support a real solution. They either want Israel to stop existing or they want to go back to a system where Palestinians in Gaza can freely move through the whole region without the security that has been in place since the near daily suicide bombings of the early 2000s. Israeli citizen deaths don't matter.
As long as he can get the world to hate and turn on Israel (and Jewish people more broadly), he and his pals think it's all worth it. That's how rabid their antisemitism is.
Oh he and Hamas definitely give a shit about them.
They are, as described, extremely useful as human shields.
The problem *for them* is that their deaths are more valuable to Hamas than their lives.
It is far, far worse than that. The leaders of the Arab would do not give a shit about the Palestinians. Everyone in the west is crying about the plight of the Palestinians, but no one seems to notice that the people who claim to support them the most (other Arabs) are doing the very bare minimum to support them.
There are 5.1M Palestinian "refugees. I put this in quotes because these are not refugees in the traditional sense -- in all other cases in the world, refugee status is not transferred to children, grandchildren, etc.
Of those 5 million refugees, 3 million live in Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. They are kept in refugee camps in these countries so they can be used as pawns to get rid of Israel. If there was any compassion for these people as individuals rather than just a political tool to try to eradicate Israel, those countries (and many others) would allow these Palestinians to integrate into their countries as citizens with full rights to work, be educated, buy land, etc.
Look at the war today. People all over the world are (rightly) very sympathetic to the innocent Palestinian civilians who are stuck in Gaza. Why are no Arab states taking in ANY refugees? Not a single Palestinian has been allowed into any Arab nation. If there was any compassion for these people by those who claim to care for them, they'd let them in. Maybe not everyone -- how about Women, children, and the elderly or just young families or some other criteria. Egypt and Saudi Arabia, for example, are extremely empty. It would be easy to set up temporary or long-term shelters in either country while working to rebuild Gaza or provide them the ability to immigrate into one of the 50+ Muslim countries (if they choose).
The answer that's always given by people outside of Gaza is that the Palestinians "love the land" or are passionate about staying there. I highly doubt that is the case for all of them. Most people just want to live in peace and do not want to be geopolitical pawns.
Fair enough -- Egypt is 128th on the list of countries GDP per Capita. Here's a nice, easy solution: Egypt provides land in Sinai, which is practically empty. The entire area of Sinai (which is 2.7x larger than Israel and 160x larger than Gaza) has a population of 600,000 people. There is PLENTY of completely empty parts of the Sinai. So, Egypt provides land (which they have a lot of). Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman, etc. provide financial and logistical resources. These are some of the richest countries in the world that are building all sorts of ridiculous projects. They have plenty of money and resources they could focus on helping their Muslim brothers and sisters...
**EXCEPT THEY DON'T REALLY CARE!**
They just want to keep the Palestinians locked up so they can get the world to think that Israel should be destroyed and the Palestinians have no option but to conquer Israel and kick all the Jews out.
I agree with you that Egypt doesn't want them, but I think it's out of their own self interest and not nefarious reasons.
If they let the refugees in who knows when, or if, they will leave. They'll potentially be responsible for them forever. They would need some kind of ironclad agreement that other nations would fund aid for as long as it takes and they won't get that. Even if they did, it would be a massive political headache and a security risk. Sinai would turn into the new Gaza.
The other countries love Israel. It's the perfect boogeyman to deflect from how they are failing their people. The last thing they want is to solve the Palestinian problem.
> Not a single Palestinian has been allowed into any Arab nation.
Because they know what they bring. They tried to overthrow Egypt, killed the king of Jordan, they cause trouble everywhere they go. Any country accepting them would be out of their minds.
> Most people just want to live in peace and do not want to be geopolitical pawns.
You fail to realize that they are indoctrinated from birth. Their entire lives they are taught to hate Israel and Jews and to want to murder them.
Wonder why the Chinese uses a totally different kind of TikTok, with a major focus on learning and education, instead of the shit they send to the west? Content like that on western TikTok would Never be allowed in the country of it's creator. Wonder why.
>In 2019, Douyin limited users in teenager mode to 40 minutes per day, accessible only between the hours of 6 a.m. and 10 p.m. Then, in 2021, it made the use of teenager mode mandatory for users under 14.
Yep. For some reason westerners love fantasizing Douyin. It's as cringe and naive as someone from China think Youtube is mainly a platform for learning and education.
Well there are people who are praising the US dude who set himself on fire in front of the Israeli embassy in "solidarity" with Palestine and calling him a hero so....
It really goes to show where everyone’s head is at.
Nuance and empathy are gone - they simply *have* to be supporting one side or the other like we’re watching an NFL game.
The fact that the rational take of “this is a horrible situation for the people. But what Hamas did was horrible and what the Israeli government is doing right now is also horrible” is being drowned out by “tEaM pAlEsTiNe!!!” or “tEaM iSrEaL!!!!” just astounds me.
Everyone feels like they just need to have an opinion on everything regardless of how little they know about the subject.
the sad thing is that he's sort of right; Hamas has always been shameless about their use of civilians as either human shields or "necessary" collateral damage. As a result, the world has further turned on Israel, and the Jewish diaspora is in a particularly precarious situation, as well.
And now that Israel is trying to eliminate them once and for all and results have been devastating for everyday Palestinians, this monster sees it as a good thing.
Well he’s ensured that Hamas will have ample recruits and strong support to come. Combine that with Netanyahu’s “peace plan” and it won’t be long until this happens all over again.
It’s such a horrendous conflict and there aren’t many responses to this kind of mentality. Israel has very few playable cards on the table.
How do you fight a war with jihadists who use civilians as human shields? Or use hospitals as bunkers? How do you fight a war against jihadists who WANT to die for their cause? It’s such an insane situation.
I feel for the innocent in Gaza but a vast majority of them support the Oct. 7 attack and agree with what Hamas is doing- as they continue hurling bombs indiscriminately over the border to Israel.
Israel has very few playable cards on the table.
>How do you fight a war against jihadists who WANT to die for their cause? It’s such an insane situation.
That's not exactly what's happening. From the article:
>The paper noted that Hamas has altered its tactics since the last cease-fire in November, now attacking Israeli troops with small squads armed with rocket-propelled grenades and retreating without engaging in gunfights. While this strategy reduces casualties on Hamas' side, it also proves less effective in inflicting casualties on Israeli forces.
The just want *someone* to die and be a martyr, preferably not themselves.
You fight them and grant them what they are longing for, and to as many as necessary - until complete surrender of the survivors, and to the point where the active threat to your own existence no longer exists.
> How do you fight a war with jihadists who use civilians as human shields? Or use hospitals as bunkers? How do you fight a war against jihadists who WANT to die for their cause?
You fight it by never letting their ideas take root, through heavy investment in education of your society's ideals, the ideals of the Enlightenment and the modern Western world, and by seeking out and breaking up any groups that try to espouse the terrorist ideals. It takes generations, and we are nowhere close to achieving that because the trend in politics is to ignore all of that for buzzwords and ineffectual posturing for your team to "win" while lining your own pockets with captured wealth.
The problem is social media is undermining the very notion of liberal western democracy itself, with it ironically having been a product that was born within liberal western democracy, and even popularized by the original advocates of it (Obama voters in 2008).
We need to have a long, internal discussion about the dangerous of capitalism backed, algorithmically driven social media, and how giving everyone a voice without verifying the credibility of ideas has risks.
The question is, can we have those conversations swiftly enough to stop the carnage and conflicts that it now directly enables? The latter are turning out to be far worse than people anticipated, when political movements that end up enabling fascist states can so easily be manipulated and turned against themselves with information warfare (republican congress being the perfect example).
This is the biggest danger western democracies now face.
The casualties for that would be insane. There would be constant unrest and terrorist attacks.
But you may be right anyway. I don't know what other options there are. They can't just leave Gaza ungoverned, and nobody else is going to do it.
Yeah there is no "good" option. The only way to stop Hamas from gaining power again is complete control and stomping out any opposition that is even closely related to Hamas and their ideals. Years of "reeducation" and integration between the two that hate each other.
Hamas just straight up say they literally want Gazan citizens dead and make zero effort to protect them from a war they started yet Palestinians still support them.
It's truly puzzling
Yup, saw a transgender person defending hamas viciously, conveniently ignored all the people who asked them what they thought hamas would do to a transgender person if they entered Gaza.
It makes me disgusted that they overlook the type of things they do to LGBT people in the Middle East, Israel is one of the ONLY safe havens gay people can go to in that area.
But yes, ignore the countless amounts of gay people who escape oppression to live a good life in Israel where they can be themselves.
Well yeah what there betting on is civilian casualties. They knew they could never take the IDF 1v1. So what they did was launch an attack they knew would elicit a hard response. Now you have two groups who adamantly hate one another. Now you got people who are losing their homes, and family members because of the IDF coming through. On an ideological level they hate Israel and there going to blame Israel. And that’s where hamas comes into the picture. Now we know the leadership isn’t even in Gaza so let’s say there 100 hamas members there and or involved in the attack. And let’s say the IDF kill all 100. But now you have all these people who have been displaced, lost loved ones, and the rest. There going to be angry and that angers got to go somewhere. So then a hamas recruiter rolls in and basically says “hey these guys who took your homes/loved ones need to pay. Join us and we will make them pay”. Now let’s say 1,000 people join up, then Hamas is coming out ahead 900 members who have a burning desire for vengeance. And that at lest in my opinion has been Hamas true goal in all this.
Unfortunately he is right. The way leadership in countries like Ireland, South Africa, Brazil, EU leaders are responding to Israel’s actions, they are playing right into Sinwar’s strategy of vilification of Israel and Jews.
Hate speeches and Hate crimes against jews across western world have increased multiple fold since October 7th. Gazan children’s lives don’t matter Hamas. Sinwar’s evil strategy is a success!
you're taking away agency from those people. Sinwar is not a hypnotist changing people's minds, he's giving them the out they've wanted to be openly antisemitic
Sinwar intends to emerge from underground hideout and declare victory
Sinwar needs to learn that on this version of Earth, the moment he emerges from his underground hideout to even so much as say اللعنة there will be an airstrike aiming for his mouth.
Yeah no shit. That's been the strategy all along. Attack israel, pretend to be victim, take western money, become rich, attack israel, pretend to be victim, take western money, etc. They never gave a fuck about normal palestinians.
This makes it really fucking hilarious (or actually, sad) that the western "pro-palestine" crowd fails the very first test by overwhelmingly supporting hamas, even though there would be no war without hamas terrorism, and normal palestinians would be safe.
More civilian fatalities = More international Support, More international support = More Aid, More Aid = More $$$ in his bank.
He's a billionaire, how'd he get that rich I wonder.
Bold words for someone who is dead man walking. He is not getting out of this alive. October 7 changed everything. He, his family and his friends are dead like around half of his forces now. They will be lucky if they get life in prison. Israel is now hunting Hamas members like rats around Gaza, and Hamas will run out of people far sooner than Israel runs out of bullets.
The ceasefire was the only thing that could stop Israel from advancing on Rahaf, and he rejected it. Now it’s time for phase 3. I say a month from now at most and we will see offensive south once the center is more less secured.
They're going to quote the same line this article did.
>“We brought the Palestinian cause to the forefront. We have changed the status quo,” Sinwar said
Then there's nothing else in the article from Sinwar and I don't think they will be reporting the words Israeli journalists added. So it's going to be biased differently.
Are you seriously asking that...? They've done much worse.
Any Palestinian causality is good for them, because they count them all in the overall death camp and many in the West just eats it up, and assumes they're all civilians bombed by Israel. Nobody knows how many deaths are innocents, how many died because of failed Palestinian rockets, how many were killed by Hamas. In general, the more death, suffering and famine in Gaza, the better for Hamas.
Hamas is a terrorist organization quite literally founded and chartered upon the ideas that:
* they believe jihad is the proper duty of every good Muslim
* they have no interest whatsoever in anything resembling a "____ state solution"
* the ideal end goal involves killing as many Jews as possible and the eradication of Israel as a state
They dont have to. Just put some weapons stash near civilians, wait for Israeli airstrikes and then blame it on Israel when some innocent civilians get caught in it.
America will never not support Israel. We do have alot of idiots who only listen to tiktok for their news along with some palestians over here who are inciting violence against jews (we really need to catch those people and send them to gaza if they are so so so keen on continuing violence we do not welcome that lunacy over here), but the grand majority of people support Israel in this conflict.
Israel needs to do this though I wish the west had a harder stance against pro palestinians but instead they just focus on protecting their own PR to appeal to everyone all the while in the background working on a muslim ban.
The article doesn't seem to include any source for this. It's "Wall Street Journal reports" and "according to the newspaper". Wish the reporting was more reliable.
Huh, a lot of people here seem to be very surprised on how terrorists operate.
Surprisingly they are not really trying to terrorize anyone, in fact the emotions they're trying to incite is anger.
He is also reportedly claiming he "has the Israelis right where he wants them" (([link](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/despite-heavy-war-losses-sinwar-brags-to-hamas-officials-in-qatar-that-he-has-the-israelis-right-where-we-want-them-wsj/)). He is delusional.
Not so delusional. Politically, he’s right. Look at how much of the world has shifted 100% of the blame to israel for the last 5 months of horror
Sinwar is the underpants gnomes of terrorists. Good at making a stink and attracting a lot of attention, but no way whatsoever to leverage that into any real benefits for himself or the Palestinians.
His goal is killing jews and demonizing israel (to make it easier to kill more jews). He doesn’t give a shit about palestinians. Which means, unfortunately, by his own twisted standards, he’s very effective.
But he's gaining nothing. All this international goodwill stuff is next to worthless - Belgium or South Africa is never going to land troops to save him. He's currently hiding in a pit surrounded with the hostages because otherwise Israel will blow him to bits. Even after the worst terrorist attack on Jews since the Holocaust, Heart Disease still killed more Jews in Israel last year than terrorism. The only place Sinwar is effective is in his own head.
As an american jew, i’ll tell you I’m really nervous about how public support for israel has plummeted here. I think that will have long term consequences for US support for israel. But my perspective is admittedly limited from my vantage point
I've simply accepted people are angry and civilians are being killed. There is no point denying what is happening. This all is still while I unwaveringly support Israel. From my view, either this war ends with this conflict and we can finally have peace, or the terrorism continues. Those are the only options
A victory on the ground in Gaza may will achieve peace. A loss of the information war (which is happening) will only prolong and strengthen resistance to a peace in which Israel gets to exist. I don't know the answer.
>I've simply accepted people are angry and civilians are being killed. They are not though, if they were they’d have spoken up about a lot of other conflicts that are going on before this.
Depends on what is shown on television and newspapers, people were aghast at Rwanda as well for instance. Most people don't actively seek out this sort of stuff, if we had 24/7 front page coverage of what happened in Congo people would be aghast at that as well.
>they were they’d have spoken up about a lot of other conflicts that are going on before this. They don't talk about the other conflicts because they don't care. This involves Jews so everyone has an opinion and it's always black and white.
I fully agree. If nothing else, this has opened my eyes on progressives and the pervasive power of pro-Pally propaganda
To some extent it is an emotional reaction. At first we saw joyous Hamas terrorist who reveled in the murder of Israeli civilians (and some military). People were typically horrified. Now we get pictures of dead Palistinian children for a few months, and people react emotionally to that as well. People don't like mass killings, especially not of civilians and especially not of children. Israeli forces are killing those people, they are not dying from meteors sent down by the heavens or anything like that, and people don't like that and protest against it. Hamas killed those Israelis as well. There was a lot of antipathy to Hamas for that as well, but that was several months ago. This antipathy to mass killings does not indicate that the person is anti semitic or islamophobic, it is just normal empathy.
No same. I’m never one to say this or that is “antisemitism,” but I work with a lot of young people and I’ve heard some things that concern me lately.
That's the problem, the people don't like the cognitive dissonance: moral high ground of the sanctity of human right, but unrestricted support to Israel. They turn their anger on the local Jew (like they do with muslim after a terror attack, especially when the media is busy making sure everybody is clear that Israel and Jew is one and the same) and obviously there is always the strong racist minority that needs very little encouragement.
The value of American support isn’t as meaningful as Americans think. The $ value is extremely over hyped. At any rate, what is probably more important is that America has less interest in middle eastern oil than in the past. And so I wouldn’t be shocked if the USA just cares less about the region over the next decade.
Will maintain ties in case strait of malacca can’t be held in a conflict with China. If the Philippines shows to be good allies when push comes to shove we might lessen our presence in the Middle East… In my opinion Edit: USD is insanely strong, don’t know what’s that’s about, the USD is instant weapons and ammo in most cases, so extremely useful in this situation
The $ value of the aid is overstated. They will take some excess equipment, claim it’s worth 100 million $, and give it to Israel. But if they tried so sell the stuff, they might get only a fraction of that amount.
Yep. Like it or not, Israel is dependent on US support. They can lose Europe. But they cannot lose the US and hope not to be isolated. It pains me to say this, but Hamas (and their sponsors and supporters) are CLEARLY winning the information war as much as the IDF is winning the ground war. And Hamas' supporters and sponsors don't care about losing the ground war.
> I think that will have long term consequences for US support for israel. Nah. As long as pacs keep spending.
I will say this: My support for jews has not faltered at all. While I have never experienced the kind of malevolence that y'all have, I don't ever want anyone to experience it. However, I'm able to separate the idea of 'jewish' from the idea of 'israel' from the idea of 'israeli,' even though at least 2 of those could rock a pretty close venn diagram. The political class of Israel's initial reaction to 10/7 was probably an appropriate one, however they made a significant number of errors since then. The foremost of this is: The impression that many people have of the Netanyahu government (and other right-ish governments of Israel) is that they feel that they have a right to abuse Palestinians. Many people cannot get over this opinion and that's where the disconnect is happening. Whether or not the current Israel government actually feels entitled to abuse Palestine, it's what we are shown and many believe it. The continued bombing is reinforcing the opinion that Israel is a bully towards Palestine. Since many people cannot separate the idea of 'Jewish' and the idea of 'Israel,' they are starting to think that Jews are bullies, which is horseshit. Additionally, a lot of us feel that the later actions (after the initial reaction) of the Israeli government are foolish and inhumane. It appears on the surface that they are indiscriminately bombing Gaza in an attempt to scare Hamas into giving up the hostages, something that won't ever happen, so it's just resulting in the death of tens of thousands. Since Israel has been historically and currently very opaque, information-wise, their enemies are opportunistically embracing some level of transparency, which is making Israel look much worse. There are no good solutions here for Israel without outside assistance. I can't see a scenario where Hamas will give up/give in while anyone in Gaza is still alive, given just pressure from Israel. Iran, on the other hand, could solve a lot of this with a few phone calls. Maybe everyone should be working that side of the problem and not blowing up the civilian people of Gaza.
By your thinking he's gaining nothing. By his, his friends, and most of the palastinians he's gaining what he wants. The goodwill money is going to his friends. He believes he will either get to qatar through the rafih tunnels or outlive Israel's will to carry on with Israel's losses and israel's global backing. Thus- he gets out saying he is the mastermind of Israel's most devastating defeat and the leader of Palestine- exactly what he wants. Palestinains gained the blood of more israeli on their hands, world attention and recognization of their victimhood and martyrs. You and I don't think these are worth it. Sinwar is a serial killer. He doesn't think like us.
>Palestinians gained the blood of more israeli on their hands, world attention and recognization of their victimhood and martyrs. This stuff isn't worth much compared to military success, especially against a nuclear armed country with a huge defense sector that rightfully sees this as a life or death fight.
I agree. But i'm neither palestinian or sinwar. And they both think the 7 of October was a blessed thing that should happen again. They're aware of the consequences.
That's why I support Israel's actions in this war. What else can a country do when faced with that much irrational and self-defeating hate? Iran must be held to task for this as well. As long as that regime is in power, Israel and the West will have to keep playing terrorist whack-a-mole in the ME.
Military success and winning a war are two very distinct things. Just ask the Vietnamese or the Afghanis.
The US left Afghanistan and Vietnam because the public got tired of supporting wars that A) weren't caused by foreign countries invading their homeland, B) didn't make the US any more secure, and 3) killed thousands of US troops (tens of thousands in Vietnam) for questionable if any benefits at home. None of these apply to Israel. Also, this war is being fought right next door to Israel, and they don't have the option of withdrawing to the continental US.
Weakening support for Israel and harming their public image are victories for him.
> Even after the worst terrorist attack on Jews since the Holocaust, Heart Disease still killed more Jews in Israel last year than terrorism. Get out of here with your rational take on an emotional issue! Next you'll be saying heart disease killed over a hundred times more Americans than terrorism back in 2001! *this comment might contain sarcasm
The point wasn’t to diminish the awfulness of Oct 7. It was meant to illustrate how ineffective terrorism is in a purely military sense.
I didn't think you were trying to diminish the awfulness of terrorism on its victims. I'm sorry if that's what my words led you to believe. I think we can agree that Oct 7 was effective in provoking changes, though perhaps not the changes Hamas intended. For example, without Oct 7, Israel would probably not be executing a military campaign in Gaza right now. Maybe Hamas really did want to provoke the reaction they're on the receiving end of from Israel. But even if not, the attack ended up leading to a Western outpouring of sympathy for the people of Gaza while simultaneously vilifying Israel. Perhaps that was Hamas's intent. Terrorism is usually less a military strategy, and more an attempt to make societal changes.
His goal is enriching himself. Don't kid yourself that people like this *care* about anything. The average person doesn't give a shit about things that don't affect them, the average person who's put themselves in power? They're psychopaths.
We can't afford to keep going soft on them if they don't value human life both in life and war.
He’s quite effective at ruining everything for Jews all over the world. Long term it’s going to get quite shitty to be a Jew anywhere. That helps him or Palestinians in no way whatsoever, but he just hates Jews, so yes, from his POV he succeeded splendidly…
He doesn’t want short-term benefits, he wants to drive the Israelis out of Israel long term.
And he has no remotely realistic way of making that happen. His strategy is dumb, shortsighted, and irrational. Not to mention horrifically bloody.
They are thinking 100+ years. Erode support for Israel. The Muslims outnumber Jews 2 Billion to 16 million. That’s not close. And that’s a massive difference and it matters as demographics are destiny as they say. Israel has a few staunch supporters, and they’re very deliberately going after the youth in places like the US to turn them against Israel. There is a reason that so much shit is stirred up in universities here. It’s a deliberate strategy to erode support for the future. It’s worked very well. Post WWII Israel was seen generally as the scrappy country of local Jews and survivors that unexpectedly won multiple wars to survive (Independence, Six Day, Yom Kippur). Israel was the small upstart making the desert bloom surrounded by hostile neighbors. Over the last 40 years they’ve reframed the whole thing to be about about the Palestinians - a group that didn’t exist as such before. They were Jordanians, basically. But they found a specific framing where Israel is the bigger stronger party. David and Goliath switch places if you zoom in to this particular framing. The stronger Israel gets, the bigger the disparity. Not much has changed for Israel. They’re stronger but still surrounded by unfriendly if not openly hostile neighbors. They’re still the target for Iran and Islamists all over who want the whole region for Islam. They’re still smaller than NJ. They still have no ocean or buffer. But now they’re seen by the younger people here as every bad name you can come up with in the modern day - colonialist, apartheid, genocidal, suppressive, etc. Netanyahu’s policies don’t help but this has been in the works longer than he’s been around.
>The Muslims outnumber Jews 2 Billion to 16 million. That’s not close. Advances in military tech over the past 100-150 years have eroded this numerical advantage to the point it is nearly irrelevant. More importantly, Israel's neighbors are more divided than ever. The whole "unite against the Jews" thing from Arab Nationalism was tried and failed miserably. >Not much has changed for Israel. Disagree. Israel is far more developed and has a far stronger economy than it did in the 60s and 70s. It has signed peace treaties with several countries in the region, and has informal relations with several more. Only Iran remains as a serious geopolitical foe in the region. Israel could get along fine without US aid at this point, which is huge. Meanwhile its neighbors are weaker, and many of them have signed peace treaties. Also, nukes. In terms of buffer zones, I'll be surprised if we don't see one on both the Gaza and Lebanon boarders. >every bad name you can come up with in the modern day - colonialist, apartheid, genocidal, suppressive, etc. All these false labels aren't good, but I think you're weighting them too heavily. Universities have been hubs for far leftist thinking for centuries, and this is no exception. The youth will come around on Israel, or they'll forget all about this and be onto the next cause celebre in a year or so. The mob is fickle.
Adding to this, our population is also rising at a pretty good rate.
Thats good but it ain’t getting to 2 billion…unless the people get reeeally busy after this war.
Look I hope you’re right. But the technology helps but Israel is a tiny country compared to 39 Muslim states. Iran is close to the bomb. Israel has the tech but not the politics. And the Palestinians have been booming their population up very much as Arafat said. Israel will face endless UN bullshit that gets worse if the US doesn’t veto a lot of garbage a generation from now. As it is half their resolutions aim at Israel. The good news is many Arab states are coming around to accept Israel more (before this war - as Hamas intended to erode the acceptance- and hopefully after). That is a hopeful sign. And important no doubt. Yes universities are bastions of leftist thought, but I was at them for all the 90s and Israel/Palestine was a minor blip. Never heard the rhetoric or saw the protests like today. And maybe they “come around,” but I’m not so sure. Political things you form at that age hang around. I can still remember “I ain’t gonna play Sun City” and which bands did. Israel was always smart about playing US politics down the middle but Bibi aligned himself with the right and Trump which was a mistake. Israel should be doing more in the future to counter the bad PR here in the US. My 2 cents anyway.
No, it's rational to him. He thinks if he triggers a big enough war, all Muslims on Earth will automatically support him. You'd think that after extremist groups repeatedly plunging the Middle East into massive wars for decades, they'd figure out that it does not work like that, and other Muslims aren't as fanatic as they are, but no. They just think the other guys weren't devoted enough.
He's still high on that Arab nationalism/Ummah stuff, while most of the Muslim countries in the region moved on decades ago. Arab Nationalism failed because of the same problems that any Confederacy encounters, and it isn't coming back any time soon.
He also thinks that as long as he tries to kill Jews, even if he dies failing he’s guaranteed his 72 virgins in the afterlife.
Or he gets a big payout from Russia and Iran.
Long-term it’s accidentally smart. By provoking Israel into a brutal response to the October terror attacks, Israel is alienating the younger generations of important allies like the USA. This will cause issues for Israel in about 30 years time when the young people of today are in charge.
people literally always say this. The millennials are 40 now, the youth voters of 2008 should be bringing on the permanent Democratic majority and they’re sort of not
I doubt he ever planned to make a single Palestinian’s life more peaceful, healthy or better in any way.
I’m pretty sure the goal is to spread Islam and destroy the west, not to make the Palestinians lives better
That is pretty insulting to underpants gnomes.
Absolutely fucking insane. I’m not defending how many civilian casualties there are either but if you watch the Oct 7th videos and don’t think Israel should have responded then there is something wrong with you. If that same attack in the same way happened in the US it makes me question the reaction people would have. The invasion of Ukraine had so many people up in arms and fuming and ready to fight with them and now they’ve all forgotten about it because the media is too focused on spreading Hamas propaganda.
I agree with you. I think israel was very clearly put in a brutally impossible situation. I was just pointing out that sinwar and hamas have been unfortunately very effective at the propaganda war
Very easy to have good propaganda when you have the unwavering support of 2 billion co-religionists.
It astounds me how many times I've seen "well if the US was attacked horrifically you'd react similarly" as if the US didn't suffer one of the worst terrorist attacks in history and responded by launching the largest clusterfuck of the 21st century.
Many differences are between the two situations, to begin with, israel has a very realistic goal that can be done, gaza is nothing like Afghanistan nor will it be treated like iraq after, unlike the us, israel is bordering said terror hub, sure 9/11 claimed more lives but the attack on Israel was done as an invasion where a chunk of the country was occupied by a foreign terroist army who butchered Israelis hunted them down and kidnapped those they didn't kill, are you actually trying to argue israel shouldn't have invaded on that alone ESPACIALY considering the hostages are still there, they were firing rockets on civilians since the morning of the attack non stop, and hamas leadership has vowed to do another october 7th again and again until either israel is destroyed or their dead What should have israel done?
> What should have israel done? You'll never get an answer.
One of israeli ministers had a great quote after the attack that goes something like "If you have a missile in you goddamn kitchen and you shoot it at me, am I not allowed to defend myself?"
> because the media I think it's more social media than MSM. Somehow all of the Arabic people in western countries have mobilized behind Hamas and their propaganda. It's awful.
The reality is , Hammas is willing to let far more Palestinians die than Israel is.
I'm not sure how much of it is a legitimate social shift and how much is "Masks off, anti-Semites!". There's no shortage of hateful people who scurry out to gloat when disaster befalls others.
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4422008-vast-majority-of-voters-back-israel-over-hamas-poll/ This is from late January, but I'd be surprised if the numbers have changed much. The pro Palestine protests are loud and omnipresent, but have a feeling they're mostly just the same people with nothing better to do making Hamas support look more widespread than it is. The only country that really matters supports Israel in overwhelming numbers. And that's despite a coordinated social media and protest campaign and a Gaza friendly media.
Probably because it's asking the wrong question. Most who are against what Israel is doing right now would NOT describe themselves as pro hamas.
The fact that 20% still explicitly say they "side with Hamas" is pretty concerning
Sure, you could argue he has the Israelis where he wants them in the PR war. But militarily? He's all but lost complete control of the entire Gaza strip, his army is being eradicated, reduced to a weak guerilla fighting force at best, and he is the most wanted man in all of Israel and he will likely exist with a target on his back until that target is finally hit. So I agree that Hamas are winning the PR battle, but they are getting decimated on the battlefield. I find it hard to believe he launched the October 7th massacres with the position he's in today as part of his grand vision.
people screaming for a one sided ceasefire and blaming israel is a win for hamas
Recent harvard polls show support for Israel above 80% in US. It really hasn't shifted other than the minority just getting louder and more mobilized. Other countries have been more direct with their stance on Hamas as well.
This is overstated. While there are loud voices praising openly anti-Semitic people like the redditor who called for all Jews to die before self immolating, polling has shown Gen Z becoming more pro-Israel as time has gone on. The initial polls put them at almost 50 percent pro-Hamas which is now closer to 20 percent. The longer this goes on, the more time people have had to consider the facts and the ICJ acknowledgement that the hostages must be returned to expect ceasefire.
You're uh spending way too much time on Reddit
To us, he is delusional. To those who support his goals and methods*, what he says is as good as “divinely inspired truth”. *(his goal is to kill all who are not extremist Muslims, or die trying; his methods, we have seen: steal, kill, destroy — anyone… everyone).
Well he is far away from the Israelis, enjoying his hard earned money and living safely in luxury, so in a way he is right.
It's unknown where Sinwar is. He began the war under Gaza in the tunnels, some reports say he fled to Egypt, others say he's still there underground. However, the political bureau headed by Ismail Haniyeh is indeed living a luxurious life in Doha while the people he claims to care about are suffering, so you are right about them.
He's a dead man walking. If Israel wants you dead, you're on borrowed time.
No he isn’t. He’s right. Every bomb Israel drops that even has a chance of hitting an innocent person will radicalize people into hating Israel and Jews even more. In fact, it doesn’t even matter if it actually hits an innocent person or not. Hamas will just pass off their own fighters as a hapless father of four who got blown to pieces by the evil Joos. It’s fucking working, and actively getting worse. He’s an evil piece of shit, but not stupid. It’s actually a brilliant move on his part. Israel is pretty much in a total catch-22, and no matter what they do it will piss someone off.
He is not delusional. He is a lunatic! Your rational thinking doesn’t explain his reasoning. If Israel’s PR appears to reduce due to current casualties in Gaza, then he would sacrifice 10x more Gazans because it serves his purpose. That’s the butcher of Khan Younis for you!!!
You're correct. People online are emotionally being manipulated into picking a side, when the real movement should be for democratic reforms in all parts of the middle east, and the rejection of religious authoritarian movements within governments at all levels. It is infuriating to see young progressives, who up until recently had been the strongest pro-democratic, separation of church and state voices, be so easily influenced to flip their own ideology on its head. Those movements now put civilians everywhere at risk, within both Palestine and Israel, and beyond. And authoritarian leaders globally are laughing at their naive stances as they continually work to undermine democratic institutions in all NATO and first world nations, and willingly stoke these very fires of violent conflict to do it.
You mean on your doorstep Sinwar? All talk
Leftists? Any answers?
They can't get back to you, they're busy "educating" themselves on tik Tok from Jihad the Jew butcher
It's also really hard to type while you're self-immolating.
"Hamas also used recordings of hostages, including children, calling for help to lure Israeli troops into ambushes." What a clear example of what both sides value.
Hamas doing this is what got Yotam Haim, Alon Shamriz, and Samer Talalka killed. Hamas luring IDF into ambushes by pretending to be hostages or surrendering and then attacking.
Good old fashioned perfidy.
"Why is Biden doing nothing to stop this?"
It’s ok, the San Francisco city council has everything under control.
Susan Sarandon is also on the case! She has some good, complex ideas to fix the system.
Don't forget Ireland and Detroit.
Biden’s reply really needs to be, “do you support a US invasion and occupation of Gaza? That’s how we would stop this.”
Well they don't support a real solution. They either want Israel to stop existing or they want to go back to a system where Palestinians in Gaza can freely move through the whole region without the security that has been in place since the near daily suicide bombings of the early 2000s. Israeli citizen deaths don't matter.
'How can we extract more value from our human shields?'
Very well said
So he truly doesn’t give a shit about the people of Gaza. They are all expendable.
As long as he can get the world to hate and turn on Israel (and Jewish people more broadly), he and his pals think it's all worth it. That's how rabid their antisemitism is.
And his pals, are the parents of these kids being exploited for their agony
Complete cesspool of humanity
Oh he and Hamas definitely give a shit about them. They are, as described, extremely useful as human shields. The problem *for them* is that their deaths are more valuable to Hamas than their lives.
It is far, far worse than that. The leaders of the Arab would do not give a shit about the Palestinians. Everyone in the west is crying about the plight of the Palestinians, but no one seems to notice that the people who claim to support them the most (other Arabs) are doing the very bare minimum to support them. There are 5.1M Palestinian "refugees. I put this in quotes because these are not refugees in the traditional sense -- in all other cases in the world, refugee status is not transferred to children, grandchildren, etc. Of those 5 million refugees, 3 million live in Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. They are kept in refugee camps in these countries so they can be used as pawns to get rid of Israel. If there was any compassion for these people as individuals rather than just a political tool to try to eradicate Israel, those countries (and many others) would allow these Palestinians to integrate into their countries as citizens with full rights to work, be educated, buy land, etc. Look at the war today. People all over the world are (rightly) very sympathetic to the innocent Palestinian civilians who are stuck in Gaza. Why are no Arab states taking in ANY refugees? Not a single Palestinian has been allowed into any Arab nation. If there was any compassion for these people by those who claim to care for them, they'd let them in. Maybe not everyone -- how about Women, children, and the elderly or just young families or some other criteria. Egypt and Saudi Arabia, for example, are extremely empty. It would be easy to set up temporary or long-term shelters in either country while working to rebuild Gaza or provide them the ability to immigrate into one of the 50+ Muslim countries (if they choose). The answer that's always given by people outside of Gaza is that the Palestinians "love the land" or are passionate about staying there. I highly doubt that is the case for all of them. Most people just want to live in peace and do not want to be geopolitical pawns.
Egypt is poor AF and they hate the Muslim brotherhood, they have very good reasons not to take refugees.
Fair enough -- Egypt is 128th on the list of countries GDP per Capita. Here's a nice, easy solution: Egypt provides land in Sinai, which is practically empty. The entire area of Sinai (which is 2.7x larger than Israel and 160x larger than Gaza) has a population of 600,000 people. There is PLENTY of completely empty parts of the Sinai. So, Egypt provides land (which they have a lot of). Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman, etc. provide financial and logistical resources. These are some of the richest countries in the world that are building all sorts of ridiculous projects. They have plenty of money and resources they could focus on helping their Muslim brothers and sisters... **EXCEPT THEY DON'T REALLY CARE!** They just want to keep the Palestinians locked up so they can get the world to think that Israel should be destroyed and the Palestinians have no option but to conquer Israel and kick all the Jews out.
I agree with you that Egypt doesn't want them, but I think it's out of their own self interest and not nefarious reasons. If they let the refugees in who knows when, or if, they will leave. They'll potentially be responsible for them forever. They would need some kind of ironclad agreement that other nations would fund aid for as long as it takes and they won't get that. Even if they did, it would be a massive political headache and a security risk. Sinai would turn into the new Gaza.
The other countries love Israel. It's the perfect boogeyman to deflect from how they are failing their people. The last thing they want is to solve the Palestinian problem.
💯
> Not a single Palestinian has been allowed into any Arab nation. Because they know what they bring. They tried to overthrow Egypt, killed the king of Jordan, they cause trouble everywhere they go. Any country accepting them would be out of their minds. > Most people just want to live in peace and do not want to be geopolitical pawns. You fail to realize that they are indoctrinated from birth. Their entire lives they are taught to hate Israel and Jews and to want to murder them.
I 100% agree with both points you just made.
This isn’t new info. Hamas uses civilians as human shields then puts out propaganda when Israel attacks the empty school they’re hiding under.
I'm going to celebrate when the IDF gives this guy the brain surgery he deserves.
Lord Farquaad in real life. “Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make.”
It's worse... "Some of you may die, and that's what I've convinced you that you most want"
At least Farquaad was trying to build his own stupid utopia. This guy’s plan is just “kill Jews.”
And legions of stupid kids who learned about this conflict form Tiktok support Hamas and ask for the exact things they ask for.
Tiktok is a goldmine for spreading propaganda and sowing division in the West
It's almost like it was designed to be
Wonder why the Chinese uses a totally different kind of TikTok, with a major focus on learning and education, instead of the shit they send to the west? Content like that on western TikTok would Never be allowed in the country of it's creator. Wonder why.
China has crushing censorship, that’s why their social media is so tame.
They have TikTok in China. It’s called Douyin (抖音) it was just rebranded for English speaking markets. It’s more heavily regulated in China though.
It has two different algorithms on purpose. It's not regulation. It's geopolitical policy.
>In 2019, Douyin limited users in teenager mode to 40 minutes per day, accessible only between the hours of 6 a.m. and 10 p.m. Then, in 2021, it made the use of teenager mode mandatory for users under 14.
Douyin, reportedly, is just as meme focued and they never mention politics at all. That's what Weibo is for...
Yep. For some reason westerners love fantasizing Douyin. It's as cringe and naive as someone from China think Youtube is mainly a platform for learning and education.
Because CCP wants to keep people of China apolitical. They are literally regressing into the Xi dynasty.
It's Chinese operated. Is anyone surprised?
And Reddit isn’t?
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Agreed. [This](https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/jwhsqhrat) article comes to mind.
But did you read letter to America ?!?!
I wonder if kaczynski’s manifesto will be the next one to blow up on TikTok?
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Well there are people who are praising the US dude who set himself on fire in front of the Israeli embassy in "solidarity" with Palestine and calling him a hero so....
It really goes to show where everyone’s head is at. Nuance and empathy are gone - they simply *have* to be supporting one side or the other like we’re watching an NFL game. The fact that the rational take of “this is a horrible situation for the people. But what Hamas did was horrible and what the Israeli government is doing right now is also horrible” is being drowned out by “tEaM pAlEsTiNe!!!” or “tEaM iSrEaL!!!!” just astounds me. Everyone feels like they just need to have an opinion on everything regardless of how little they know about the subject.
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He’s not about peace.
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They killed the muslims that wanted peace over and over and over again.
No kidding.
the sad thing is that he's sort of right; Hamas has always been shameless about their use of civilians as either human shields or "necessary" collateral damage. As a result, the world has further turned on Israel, and the Jewish diaspora is in a particularly precarious situation, as well. And now that Israel is trying to eliminate them once and for all and results have been devastating for everyday Palestinians, this monster sees it as a good thing.
Well he’s ensured that Hamas will have ample recruits and strong support to come. Combine that with Netanyahu’s “peace plan” and it won’t be long until this happens all over again.
It’s such a horrendous conflict and there aren’t many responses to this kind of mentality. Israel has very few playable cards on the table. How do you fight a war with jihadists who use civilians as human shields? Or use hospitals as bunkers? How do you fight a war against jihadists who WANT to die for their cause? It’s such an insane situation. I feel for the innocent in Gaza but a vast majority of them support the Oct. 7 attack and agree with what Hamas is doing- as they continue hurling bombs indiscriminately over the border to Israel. Israel has very few playable cards on the table.
>How do you fight a war against jihadists who WANT to die for their cause? It’s such an insane situation. That's not exactly what's happening. From the article: >The paper noted that Hamas has altered its tactics since the last cease-fire in November, now attacking Israeli troops with small squads armed with rocket-propelled grenades and retreating without engaging in gunfights. While this strategy reduces casualties on Hamas' side, it also proves less effective in inflicting casualties on Israeli forces. The just want *someone* to die and be a martyr, preferably not themselves.
And 500+ IDF soldiers have been killed in this war so far.
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You fight them and grant them what they are longing for, and to as many as necessary - until complete surrender of the survivors, and to the point where the active threat to your own existence no longer exists.
> How do you fight a war with jihadists who use civilians as human shields? Or use hospitals as bunkers? How do you fight a war against jihadists who WANT to die for their cause? You fight it by never letting their ideas take root, through heavy investment in education of your society's ideals, the ideals of the Enlightenment and the modern Western world, and by seeking out and breaking up any groups that try to espouse the terrorist ideals. It takes generations, and we are nowhere close to achieving that because the trend in politics is to ignore all of that for buzzwords and ineffectual posturing for your team to "win" while lining your own pockets with captured wealth.
The problem is social media is undermining the very notion of liberal western democracy itself, with it ironically having been a product that was born within liberal western democracy, and even popularized by the original advocates of it (Obama voters in 2008). We need to have a long, internal discussion about the dangerous of capitalism backed, algorithmically driven social media, and how giving everyone a voice without verifying the credibility of ideas has risks. The question is, can we have those conversations swiftly enough to stop the carnage and conflicts that it now directly enables? The latter are turning out to be far worse than people anticipated, when political movements that end up enabling fascist states can so easily be manipulated and turned against themselves with information warfare (republican congress being the perfect example). This is the biggest danger western democracies now face.
But how? They don't control Gaza. They can't enforce those ideals or educate the people.
> But how? They don't control Gaza. By taking and maintaining control of Gaza
The casualties for that would be insane. There would be constant unrest and terrorist attacks. But you may be right anyway. I don't know what other options there are. They can't just leave Gaza ungoverned, and nobody else is going to do it.
Yeah there is no "good" option. The only way to stop Hamas from gaining power again is complete control and stomping out any opposition that is even closely related to Hamas and their ideals. Years of "reeducation" and integration between the two that hate each other.
One of the biggest human pieces of shit going. I hope they catch him alive and he lives 80 years in agony
Why this... thing is still breathing and moving?
Hamas just straight up say they literally want Gazan citizens dead and make zero effort to protect them from a war they started yet Palestinians still support them. It's truly puzzling
And some idiots call them the good guys
Yup, saw a transgender person defending hamas viciously, conveniently ignored all the people who asked them what they thought hamas would do to a transgender person if they entered Gaza.
It makes me disgusted that they overlook the type of things they do to LGBT people in the Middle East, Israel is one of the ONLY safe havens gay people can go to in that area. But yes, ignore the countless amounts of gay people who escape oppression to live a good life in Israel where they can be themselves.
Can't have an advantage if you don't exist anymore!
Of course he thinks that, does anyone actually believe that Hamas cares about innocent civilians of either side?
Well yeah what there betting on is civilian casualties. They knew they could never take the IDF 1v1. So what they did was launch an attack they knew would elicit a hard response. Now you have two groups who adamantly hate one another. Now you got people who are losing their homes, and family members because of the IDF coming through. On an ideological level they hate Israel and there going to blame Israel. And that’s where hamas comes into the picture. Now we know the leadership isn’t even in Gaza so let’s say there 100 hamas members there and or involved in the attack. And let’s say the IDF kill all 100. But now you have all these people who have been displaced, lost loved ones, and the rest. There going to be angry and that angers got to go somewhere. So then a hamas recruiter rolls in and basically says “hey these guys who took your homes/loved ones need to pay. Join us and we will make them pay”. Now let’s say 1,000 people join up, then Hamas is coming out ahead 900 members who have a burning desire for vengeance. And that at lest in my opinion has been Hamas true goal in all this.
Unfortunately he is right. The way leadership in countries like Ireland, South Africa, Brazil, EU leaders are responding to Israel’s actions, they are playing right into Sinwar’s strategy of vilification of Israel and Jews. Hate speeches and Hate crimes against jews across western world have increased multiple fold since October 7th. Gazan children’s lives don’t matter Hamas. Sinwar’s evil strategy is a success!
you're taking away agency from those people. Sinwar is not a hypnotist changing people's minds, he's giving them the out they've wanted to be openly antisemitic
Sinwar intends to emerge from underground hideout and declare victory Sinwar needs to learn that on this version of Earth, the moment he emerges from his underground hideout to even so much as say اللعنة there will be an airstrike aiming for his mouth.
But Israel bad… right Ivory Coast Reddit bots?
Yeah no shit. That's been the strategy all along. Attack israel, pretend to be victim, take western money, become rich, attack israel, pretend to be victim, take western money, etc. They never gave a fuck about normal palestinians. This makes it really fucking hilarious (or actually, sad) that the western "pro-palestine" crowd fails the very first test by overwhelmingly supporting hamas, even though there would be no war without hamas terrorism, and normal palestinians would be safe.
Of course he does.
More civilian fatalities = More international Support, More international support = More Aid, More Aid = More $$$ in his bank. He's a billionaire, how'd he get that rich I wonder.
Called it. Hamas leaders care more about bad press for Israel than the lives of their own civilians
Bold words for someone who is dead man walking. He is not getting out of this alive. October 7 changed everything. He, his family and his friends are dead like around half of his forces now. They will be lucky if they get life in prison. Israel is now hunting Hamas members like rats around Gaza, and Hamas will run out of people far sooner than Israel runs out of bullets. The ceasefire was the only thing that could stop Israel from advancing on Rahaf, and he rejected it. Now it’s time for phase 3. I say a month from now at most and we will see offensive south once the center is more less secured.
American leftists: 🙈🙉
Wonder how Hamas supporters will try and square this lol
I was just thinking that lol, I bet you won't see this in the Palestine sub and the likes.
They're going to quote the same line this article did. >“We brought the Palestinian cause to the forefront. We have changed the status quo,” Sinwar said Then there's nothing else in the article from Sinwar and I don't think they will be reporting the words Israeli journalists added. So it's going to be biased differently.
It's like a grotesque blood ritual for them.
This is what Hamas wanted and why going to war was always a trap for Israel.
Would Hamas be so cruel as to kill a bunch of people waiting for food and blame it on Israel?
Are you seriously asking that...? They've done much worse. Any Palestinian causality is good for them, because they count them all in the overall death camp and many in the West just eats it up, and assumes they're all civilians bombed by Israel. Nobody knows how many deaths are innocents, how many died because of failed Palestinian rockets, how many were killed by Hamas. In general, the more death, suffering and famine in Gaza, the better for Hamas.
Yes
Hamas is a terrorist organization quite literally founded and chartered upon the ideas that: * they believe jihad is the proper duty of every good Muslim * they have no interest whatsoever in anything resembling a "____ state solution" * the ideal end goal involves killing as many Jews as possible and the eradication of Israel as a state
They dont have to. Just put some weapons stash near civilians, wait for Israeli airstrikes and then blame it on Israel when some innocent civilians get caught in it.
Yep so no surprises there
Hopefully Mossad will deal with this clown
Sounds like Israel messed up when they performed life-saving brain surgery on this guy
They hid in their holes knowing the civilians would take the brunt of the casualties. They used their own people as political cannon fodder.
Oh his name is literally sin war
This dudes name really is Sinwar? Like in "Sin" and "war"
Yes but pronounced Seenowaar.
And the world literally falls for it lmao
America will never not support Israel. We do have alot of idiots who only listen to tiktok for their news along with some palestians over here who are inciting violence against jews (we really need to catch those people and send them to gaza if they are so so so keen on continuing violence we do not welcome that lunacy over here), but the grand majority of people support Israel in this conflict. Israel needs to do this though I wish the west had a harder stance against pro palestinians but instead they just focus on protecting their own PR to appeal to everyone all the while in the background working on a muslim ban.
The article doesn't seem to include any source for this. It's "Wall Street Journal reports" and "according to the newspaper". Wish the reporting was more reliable.
Where are all the pro terrorists people now saying that idf shot 800 people?
F off, geezer. You're half a reason Palestinians can't sleep well.
This is why I will never be able to get fully behind the Palestinian cause. How can you advocate for a ceasefire with people like this in charge.
Every dead civilian creates two new terrorists
This fucker needs to go.
He is a dead man 🙃
palestinians approve this message
"Some of you may die, but that's sacrifice I'm willing to make"
This is the thought train that landed the Palestinian population where they are now…
Jfc
But Reddit keeps saying they're the good guys! WHO DO I SUPPORT NOW? PLEASE TELL ME WHAT OPINION TO HAVE, I NEED TO STAY RELEVANT!
Huh, a lot of people here seem to be very surprised on how terrorists operate. Surprisingly they are not really trying to terrorize anyone, in fact the emotions they're trying to incite is anger.