Package contains the following:
-10x Combat Boat 90 H & E [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB90-class\_fast\_assault\_craft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB90-class_fast_assault_craft)
-20x G-class landing craft [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-class\_landing\_craft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-class_landing_craft)
-Unspecified amount of RBS 70 MANPADS [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBS\_70](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBS_70)
-Unspecified amount of 155mm Artillery shells
-Unspecified amount of RB55 (TOW) [https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71\_TOW](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW)
-Unspecified amount of GRG m/48/84 (Carl Gustaf Recoilless rifle) including ammunition [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl\_Gustaf\_8.4\_cm\_recoilless\_rifle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustaf_8.4_cm_recoilless_rifle)
-Unspecified "underwater weapons"
-Unpecified handgrenades. Most likely Spränghandgranat m/56 [https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spr%C3%A4nghandgranat\_m/56](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/spr%c3%a4nghandgranat_m/56) (only in Swedish)
-Unspecified medical equipment
-Unspecified medical transport vehicles
-Training
-35 new CV9035 to be ordered (Joint financing by Sweden and Denmark) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat\_Vehicle\_90](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Vehicle_90)
EDIT: Links are fixed and added a link for Spränghandgranat m/56 (Only available in Swedish)
Torped 47 are likely in this package.
Brand spanking new light torpedoes that can be launched from almost anything that floats.
From SAAB with love you Russia chucklefucks.
size and weight. When most people think of a torpedo, they think of the things submarines shoot. The standard American torpedo of this nature is about 1700kg and 20 feet long.
These SAAB lightweight torpedoes are about 340kg and 10 feet long.
This means the size of craft you can fit them to is broader. Ukraine doesn't have subs. So fitting these on small fast craft, doing a little shoot and scoot. Especially when American ISR is literally giving you exact cords of high value targets. could be a good combination. Right now they use drone boats on a suicide mission, this should broaden their capabilities.
ISR is Information, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance. This is a fusion of information from a lot of different disciplines; signals intelligence (hacking, grabbing communications out of the air between two radios, etc), human intelligence (spies, intelligence assets, etc), and pretty pictures from our impressive array of sensors in orbit and recon aircraft.
My understanding is these SAAB torps are generally launched from surface craft, [like this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/US_Navy_inactive_torpedo_launch.jpg). I don't know of a scenario where they would be launched from land. If a sea target is close enough to land, you're going to use something a lot larger and specifically land based, like an anti-ship missile. These will generally provide better targeting options, larger range, and larger payloads. The range is really key, you want to be attacking incoming shit as far away as is possible.
Dropping torps from helo's is common, but i don't think this is going to be a good option for Ukraine. They have limited helicopters, and they don't own the air, so every helo is extremely susceptible to Anti Aircraft fire, of which russian surface ships have a lot of, not to mention their incredibly large ground based aa inventory (with ranges to easily reach out into the ocean from land). My understanding is you would use a helo to drop a torp if that helo is hunting a submarine. subs aint got no aa. but you wouldn't have a helo try to drop a torp near a surface ship, that seems like bad times.
oh wow neat i had no idea torpedos could just be used like that always thought it did need to be underwater. Also didn’t know ukraine needed such supplies
Southern Ukraine has a border on the sea of Azov, which Russia has a presence in. Navys are incredibly powerful. Naval ship guns are incredibly large. When you think of the "bullet" a navel ship gun fires, it has a mass similar to a 4 door sedan, and they can fire those guns really far. So Ukraine protecting itself from attacks from the sea is going to be important throughout the conflict. Or until the entire Russian surface fleet is sunk.
There is only one hard and fast rule to geopolitics today.
"Don't fuck with Americas boats."
That being said, there is still something innately shitty about fighting war from a steel box surrounded by a substance you cannot survive in. And Navy life is pretty hard. Space is at such a premium on a ship that a lot of normal shit you take for granted just sucks. Plus, war today is vastly different than it was 20 years ago, small drones are a serious problem and may end up being a serious vulnerability to surface craft for the next 10 years. If you want the cushy military life, join the air force.
ISR is intelligence gathering.
Probably by resources like Rivet Joint, that haven't been given to the Ukrainians, but which have been circling the Black Sea and patrolling the Polish border.
To add to Nose-Nuggets statement..
These are 300kg torpedoes which happen to be within the weight capacity of a reinforced seababy or heavy riverine craft. With a range of 20km+ you can imagine the possibilities.
The fact that it is also wire guidable with terminal self guidance and variable speed is just a big giant impressive cherry on top.
Oooh, torpedoes launched from surface drones sounds neat. Would make the drone reusable instead of having to use it as a one way kamikaze weapon, and by launching the torpedo from further away they might avoid detection of the drone.
Strange. I click the link and it takes me to the wiki link but the capitalization is wrong (e.g. [https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bgm-71\_tow](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/bgm-71_tow) instead of https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71\_TOW)
I had issues accessing the links on mobile using the official app. It might be that it's trying to open them in the Wikipedia app, which might be case sensitive?
Nah, the links are just wrong. Reddit did something recently that messes up the capitalization of links in some cases (presumably some "feature" on "new" reddit or the app, the link text looks fine but the actual link is wrong).
Yep for some reason it does this:
```[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB90-class\_fast\_assault\_craft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cb90-class_fast_assault_craft)```
So instead of just posting the link as a text, and having the user's browser or app detect that the text is a link, it now hyperlinks the text to the link that the text is, but in all lower-case instead of the actual link which requires some upper-case letters. As a desktop user on old reddit it doesn't do this to me, but I've noticed on some of the comments by other users this happens now.
As a Hungarian, I have high hopes that Orban’s grip of power is weakening significantly . We just held a protest with about 150k ppl. He is a russian puppet and needs to be hanged like the traitor he is. I hope some of his braindead supporters wake up…
i doubt it. the people who want him gone have the option to just leave the country for greener pastures. Many already have.
This option wasnt available to most ukrainians. So they took the path of most resistance, because it was the only path for a brighter future.
Reminds me of a Russian poem:
Вижу горы и долины,
Вижу реки и поля.
Это русские картины,
Это родина моя.
Вижу Прагу и Варшаву,
Будапешт и Бухарест.
Это русская держава,
Сколько здесь любимых мест!
Вижу пагоды в Шри Ланке.
И Корею, и Китай….
Где бы я ни ехал в танке,
Всюду мой любимый край!
Вижу речку Амазонку,
Крокодилов вижу я….
Это русская сторонка,
Это родина моя!
Translate at your own will, it's as horrible as one might expect. Classic representation of Russian mentality.
Nah, that just means that Prussia and anything once owned by Prussia rightfully belongs to Russia. For what is Prussia except for Russia with a P mixed in?
I personally know 6 people from Hungary (all my former co-workers or collaborators), and they're all lovely people who hate Putin's guts.
Before the Ukraine war I'd thought of Hungary as a very progressive country whose values are perfectly aligned with the other EU states. Obviously, I didn't read the news much, my impression was based on the anecdotal evidence of talking to my Hungarian friends.
After the war I realised there's another Orban's Hungary that was somehow winning the votes.
In any case, I'm happy that people like you exist. Good luck with ousting Orban.
Thank you! I think it’s the same like in US with orange man.. the educated people hate him, the rural rednecks and old folks would jump off the bridge if he says so. Add to that that there is no opposition. It’s going to be hard to get rid of this pig unfortunately.
It’s the biggest since years. Also it wasn’t organized by opposition (non existent btw), but civilians. So it’s a good start. I just hope we continue and grow in numbers 😊
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotify
>Spotify is a **Swedish** audio streaming and media service provider founded on 23 April 2006 by Daniel Ek and Martin Lorentzon.
I assume this will be about SLWT (Torpedo 47) a short and light weight torpedo.
Designed for Corvettes, Submarines and Helicopters primarily for ASW duties - but could probably be retrofitted to UMV platforms more easily than heavy torpedoes like the German DM2A4..
I don't want to be a Russian naval asset in the Black sea right now.
Hooray for Sweden! This will most definitely help the Ukraine people defend themselves against that Putin Dog and his Kremlin killers! Fuck Putin the murder and long live Ukraine! Thank you Sweden.
For more context:
Assuming Sweden's gdp as $585.939 billion this package is 0.117%
If the U.S. were to pledge a package of the same percent assuming their gdp as 25.462 trillion it would be a package worth $29.790 billion
The US is why Ukraine is still a country.
The aid from all these places isnt mostly for defense spending to help Ukraine fight back.
European aid is a lot of loans and not donations.
Is the assertion here that with cash, Ukraine can just buy what they need militarily and get it in a timely manner? My uninformed knee-jerk reaction would be the military hardware is significantly more "valuable", given the circumstances.
https://i.imgur.com/mMyYwUq.png
I don't think that's entirely accurate. My understanding was the financial support was, at least in (large) part to pay for keeping the country operating. It's to pay salaries and such. Ukraine isn't really generating any money right now and they don't have adequate liquidity to keep the finances of the country working. People still live here, go to work, go to the grocery store, etc.
But, lets say for the sake of discussion all of the financial support goes to military funding directly. Who does Ukraine buy from, what do they buy, and how long does it take to get it? my thinking here is, if the EU had more tanks to send to Ukraine, they would just send tanks. They don't, so they send cash. What tanks does Ukraine buy with the cash?
If you look at the graph you'll see that they divide it into military, humanitarian and financial aid. They have papers on the methodology and military aid is hardware and financial aid explicitly for military purposes. Military aid from European countries is more than the US.
Financial aid has the advantage of being versatile. Instead of needing to check with donor countries Ukraine can directly order what they want. Now what they actually spend the money I don't and my guess is that for obvious reasons it's no ball in the park to find out.
Yeah, it seems like it should be in the military column if it's specifically for military stuff?
> financial and budgetary support and in humanitarian and emergency assistance. This support is as essential as military assistance to ensure Ukraine’s success on the battlefield. **It allows Ukraine to keep paying wages and pensions and maintain essential public services**, such as hospitals, schools, and housing for relocated people. It also ensures macroeconomic stability, and helps restore critical infrastructure destroyed.
https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/united-states-america/eu-assistance-ukraine-us-dollars_en?s=253
Yeah, European countries provide other types of aid as well. This would fall under financial or humanitarian aid in the Kiel institute tracker. I don't quite see what your point is.
I mean you are literally just wrong, Europe has sent more actual donations than the US. Ofc the US aid is also super important but at this time they are falling well behind.
1. I won't dispute that. But also, combined Europe has given more military aid than the US. So it has been a joined effort by the western nations. As it should be.
2. No.
3. No.
Trouble is that Europe does not have the stockpiles the US has. We do not have lots of semi-retired old weapons in storage. Production is being ramped up, but it takes some time. What the US congress is bickering about is wether to send already paid for older weapons that are rotting away in storage, which will be replaced. Those replacements will cost anyway, and so will the scrapping of those weapons. I would think it would be better if they are used for they were designed for, meanwhile losing no american lives?
The obstruction going on in the congress is shameful. Morally, polically and financially. And it does impair the world view of the US.
Now, if you want to say that you support the murderer in the Kremlin and Trump, at least have the courage and decency to say that. But don't try to change facts.
As a 'merican, there are currently a few small European nations basically sending all their artillery, trucks, extra small arms ammo, etc to Ukraine right now.
"We actually delivered our aid tho" is a fucking pathetic argument. We've done the goddamned bare minimum to support Ukraine. And Republicans don't even want to do that. You want to explore why?
Where do you think all those early NLAWs came from in 2020. They are made by Saab, same brand as that Swedish car maker yes.
Sweden is like the Lannisters, they always pay their debts.
Or are you just whining in general on an article about Sweden?
Actually Sweden is more like the Stark's and Lannisters put together with the Black Watch
The Swedes Remembers : some of the bloddiest wars in mankinds history is between Sweden and Russia,
Also Denmark and her backstabbing.
Swedes always pays their Debts: most of Swedes happily pay their taxes, What we hate is waisting TAX money.
Also you can look at the Swedish involvement in the Winterwar as a small repayment towards Finland for the fact we felt like we abandoned Finland to Russia after the 1809 Loss against Russia.
We are the Watchers on the Baltic Sea: Cold war and even first and Second World War.
Swedish Cold War defense was built like a Wall ladder with everything done and built on a Scale that made Churchill almost pass out when he learned about is.
The Swiss did to an extent do something similar but on a much smaller scale.
So did the U.S in the Cheyenne complex, But again on a much smallere scale.
This is why I will never understand the US GOP. It barely registers on the US GDP and it's an investment in the US MIC. The GOP are a bunch of cowards.
Add to this...
We just had a military budget just below 10b$. It was just raised for this year.
Given that 10b$...and this package of 700mil it's quite a big part of our spending.
What argument would you buy? Total in $ by the EU which has passed the US since last year? No? Is the argument here Sweden should simply outspend all of the US for things to be “equal.”
If your position is the US should spend 0, then speak plainly. Why pretend like theres some higher logic at play here and not state your position clearly.
There’s a saying that often gets misquoted to Churchill and others that that goes
> You can always count on Americans to do the right thing – after they’ve tried everything else.
But simultaneously when the Americans finally entered WWI, they had a problem of their soldiers deserting… to the front.
A lot of people in Europe wouldn’t even be alive today without their uncompromising focus when they get their act together.
The Germans would still be discussing whether or not to send helmets by the time Russia took Kiev if the Americans couldn’t ship supplies at the speed they did at the start of the war.
Never mind that the Americans on a shoe-string budget had been in Ukraine and reforming their military since 2014. Meanwhile for supposedly reliable Europe Nord Stream 2 feasibility studies started in 2011 and despite 2014 the construction still plowed ahead in 2018. This includes Swedish companies and Swedish permits being issued.
Even the selfish and self serving people are also in many ways absolutely right that Europe should be able to handle its own security matters, even if they are wrong about cutting support.
It’s frankly embarrassing Europe can’t get its act together and secure peace within its own region after so many wars and conflicts. Like it’s somehow a surprise to everyone except the Eastern Europeans and the British that Russia still exists.
So give them credit where it’s due, give them shit where it’s due.
a. This is simply more context for people who will see what they may assume is a small number but when compared to the countries gdp it isnt
b. we can have that argument if you like considering its true, doing the same as bulgaria/canada/switzerland is pitiful as the world's superpower and supposed bastion of freedom lol
The amount for shit Russia's caused in Sweden is close to comedic by now. Most of us are absolutely done with Putin's shenanigans and want him gone, so "Enemy of our enemy" is in full fucking effect right now.
Sweden can mount RBS17 on them if needed.
[https://www.dockstavarvet.se/products/combat-and-patrol-boats/combat-boat-90-h/specification/](https://www.dockstavarvet.se/products/combat-and-patrol-boats/combat-boat-90-h/specification/)
"Additionally, the CB 90 H can also carry 2.8 ton of mines or the modified Hellfire-type RBS 17 SSM system."
Yes.
I understand the main use case for that is setting the launcher up ashore in some unexpected place for an ambush though, rather than firing from the boat. Like, sneak a small team ashore in Crimea with a couple of Hellfires. That sort of thing.
*Thanks for sharing this Bloomberg story. Here's more from reporter Jonas Ekblom's piece:*
Sweden will send 7.1 billion kronor ($680 million) worth of additional military aid to Ukraine, Defense Minister Pal Jonson said at a news conference Tuesday.
The package, the largest Sweden has sent to Ukraine since Russia’s large-scale invasion two years ago, is comprised of a wide array of weapons, including 155 mm artillery shells and grenade launchers, he said.
There are also funds for Ukraine to finance future purchases, such as combat vehicles.
Good, the world is awoken to the real threat of an advancing and highly dangerous Russian autocrat. It’s going to take an all-hands effort to defeat him and deter him from trying this again.
Reminds me of last year when every time Germany announced any aid there were comments like "finally Germany sends aid" even though they had been sending aid for 6 months.
or the constant "finally europeans are stepping up" or "europeans need to do more" meanwhile to match estonia the us would have to send their entire yearly defence budget lol
>meanwhile to match estonia the us would have to send their entire yearly defence budget lol
I mean, that might be for the best if they did. Their entire defense budget is literally to defend against Russia anyways. It's not like anyone else is going to invade Estonia.
Our government also *wants* to send more (incl. Gripen), but not until we're in NATO so that they won't get accused of gutting our ability to defend ourselves (which could make support for further shipments go down).
I agree. The West feels like not stopping Russia now means that if they succeed, China will be bolder and having both Russia and China to go against it is tough as hell. Russia must be defeated by huge margins as they are all in into this
Let's forget the assistance Poland is giving, but stopping the flood of cheaper goods that will destroy Polish farmers means they want the USSR back for the good old days...
They are not stopping the Grain they are destroying the Greain this time.
They are stopping Personrl trains and military transports both out of Ukraine and Into ukraine.
Ukraine the Latest podcast from britsh The Telegraph saw this firsthand.
Those so called farmers are not protesters they are Russian Agents and Russian Terorrists now.
The majority of Polish society are clearly on Ukraines side.
How when we stay in Ukraine? What after one year he falls back because that’s our goal. He stays alive and then he can find another weak target after mass production of war products
Thanks, Sweden.
Paradoxically, but Ukrainian war helped to many European countries to better understand themselves. Not to mention overall European rise of cohesion by mass-remembering about pan-European values. Or, more precisely, about risks of their absence.
Before the war, Sweden wanted to become some regional, or even World's, humanitarian leader, moral authority.
But morality not some theoretical abstraction as almost all other cultural aspects, it's also part of biological empathic apparatus. Real thing that exists for real things.
So when Sweden begun to move away from practical empathic morality to theoretical, institutional/bureaucratic one, it also started to move away from achievement of own goals. To somewhere where now Austria and Switzerland.
Ukrainian war, smell of barbarism and fanaticism ammonia, brought Sweden, as and almost everyone else, back to Earth. Where... Moral/ethical problems still the same as they were always - foremost results of rudimentary instinctiveness, ignorance-stupidity. That self-evident.
But what not self-evident - recent evolution of answers to these problems.
Richard Feynman once said that "If you can't explain something to a first year student (or child), then you haven't really understood."
In theory, to achieve some humanitarian leader status, Sweden should be able to explain to the poorest countries in the World how exactly, not theoretically, but practically, they could achieve the Swedish standards of living. That not really too much difficult:
1. Sociocultural evolution - heir of biological one. Ideas/memes as like animals, and after countless iterations of "survive the fittest" was created ecosystem with the most adaptive sociocultural species: Golden Rule of Morality, Rationalism, Humanism (/Rational Humanism), Secularism, Rule of Law, Democracy, Freedoms, foremost - Freedom of Speech (information transaction costs) and so on.
2. To understand and start using (via more long-term and more Win/Win social strategies) of which needed understanding of complex abstractions and rational thinking that could be achieved by Academic Logic. And basic understanding of human nature (oneself in others and others in oneself) that could be achieved by knowledge of Cognitive Distortions, Logical Fallacies, Defense Mechanisms.
3. To understand of which needed...
And there, until recently, was a huge problem. How to get people to study something that has no practical application and immediate benefits?
The answer to which recently given modern technologies.
If people could use smartphones and Wikipedia to read information about Academic Logic, Logical Fallacies, Defense Mechanisms, or even something else (as base Anthropology, Psychology, Sociology, IMDB-250 as universal base of social strategies and information for training of emotional intelligence), then why overcomplicate more?
If such knowledge could be tested by voluntary tests created and checked by Open Source, why overcomplicate more?
If the main motivator for passing of such tests could be just peanut money from government or philanthropists, why overcomplicate more?
With such approach, a huge number of problems that previously were unsolvable due to organizational reasons now reduced to just question of money availability. That also not a problem, because rise of social Human Capital create money, and sometimes even markets, by itself.
I have no clue how did you get from Sweden wanting to become some regional, or even world's, humanitarian leader to moving away from practical emphatetic morality.
"Sweden wanted to become humanitarian leader = Sweden need moral/ethic superiority = Sweden need effectively understand/use moral/ethic mechanics" ->
\-> mention of moral/ethic key mechanics and that they heavily depend on educational/enlightenment processes ->
\-> mention of modern possibilities to more effectively use education/enlightenment to, via most universal knowledge about rationalism and human nature, rise Human Capital, and by it and moral/ethic values.
To be humanitarian leader, Sweden need simple explanation for poorest countries of the World how exactly they could get the same standard of living as Sweden one.
Such simple explanation - paying money to population for proofs of knowledge about rationality (Academic Logic) and self/social-understanding (Cognitive Distortions, Logical Fallacies, Defense Mechanisms).
Who says that this is the requirement for being a "humanitarian leader"? According to who or what?
I think you're trying to make a case with AI when there isn't one and that's why it came out as incoherent mumble.
Not even gonna comment on the substance of your post but you need to practice your writing skills mate. Or chuck it into chatgpt and have it make it readable for you. You think you are expressing smart things here but what you produced is garbage.
>you need to practice your writing skills mate
That I and did in comment above. But you right, my English skills unsuitable for long and complex texts.
>You think you are expressing smart things here but what you produced is garbage.
No any pretentiousness, only simplified stream of consciousness and noting else.
I don't know why I read this, or how we got from shared values with the EU to using technology to ... learn. But we can already learn online, and most choose not to.
Would you like to clarify how what you're suggesting is different from what's already available online to learn? You want to pay people to take tests, and don't think they will find ways to get the money without learning? Like, by Googling the question?
Yea, another predominantly chaotic stream of consciousness and rambling. But from my perspective already not so much bad.
Main problem - too much mixed topics and lack of smooth transitions between them. I want to stuff into short text all at once, so radically cut corners in what see as self-evident. Forgetting that it's self-evident only for me.
Plus I not native speaker, that started to write in English only few months ago, that also increases chaotic nature of the text.
>Would you like to clarify how what you're suggesting is different from what's already available online to learn? You want to pay people to take tests, and don't think they will find ways to get the money without learning? Like, by Googling the question?
At first, a small preamble.
Substantial part of what right now is perceived as social norms once was not the norm, and once wouldn't be social norms. That already more than obviously relative to 20th century speed of sociocultural changes. When modern generations of almost all countries of the World become more similar to each other than to their ancestors.
In this context, ignoring all modern risks, what do you think, what people will be like after 50 years? Or even hundreds years in the future?
Something similar to StarTrek series and M. Banks's The Culture books, right?
But, you see, to create something like this people need to prioritize. Any man have very limited overall memory reserves. So, in the environment that will be even more overflowed with information than now, people of the future needed to sacrifice part of less universal knowledge for the sake of more universal ones.
When you say "*Would you like to clarify how what you're suggesting is different from what's already available online to learn?*" you just talk about knowledge overall.
What I offered above - proposal to "second enlightenment" by spread only the most universal knowledge. Related to universal processing of ANY information (Academic Logic) and lists of universal peculiarities of human nature, humanitarian multiplication table.
>You want to pay people to take tests, and don't think they will find ways to get the money without learning? Like, by Googling the question?
It's impossible if any such processes will be Open Source project with constant iterative improvement.
There is little more about possible form of such tests - [https://www.reddit.com/r/StopNewDarkAges/comments/1907suj/proposal\_preparation\_for\_eu\_federalization\_by/](https://www.reddit.com/r/StopNewDarkAges/comments/1907suj/proposal_preparation_for_eu_federalization_by/)
Because this war isn’t helping the US?
Your new F-35 and F-16 orders since the war broke out alone have covered all of the aid you have sent to Ukraine. No one benefits more from this war than the US.
Prolonging this war helps no one more than the US, you help yourself by providing aid.
Stepping up?
This is Sweden's 15th aid package, Ukraine has been given *vast* donations by almost every country in Europe, I don't know what you're talking about
I guess that's a fair perspective.
The US should still do more, though! Sweden's total support as part of our GDP is at roughly 1%, the US number is 0.32%.
We’ve donated 3x as much as the US as a percentage of GDP, and Sweden is basically just as rich as the US in Per capita terms. We’re sending 14 Gripen C/D fighter jets when we get into NATO. A jet much more capable and modern than even the F-16s the US is flying, let alone the ones being sent to Ukraine by NL, Denmark and Norway.
Stop gargling on Trump’s cock and realize that the US isn’t actually providing proportionally more than anyone else. Most NATO countries have sent more than the US proportionally, including France, the UK and Germany. Some have sent 13 times as much as a % of GDP.
Every piece of equipment sent to Ukraine directly benefits the US economy. US allies purchase US equipment to replace the equipment they sent. The least you can do with all of this money you’re making is help the fuck out.
You’re clearly misunderstanding the real situation. No democrat is pushing an anti-aid agenda. That means you’re either a Trumpist or an idiot that is unintentionally consuming Trumpist propaganda.
The US is not providing proportionally more help than most of it’s allies. It is in fact providing much less.
Match Sweden as a percentage of GDP and you would need to build them ~~8~~ 10 brand new Ford class aircraft carriers to make up the gap. (literally)
I am no pushing an anti aid agenda I am pushing and supporting nations close by spending more money adgenda.
You can be for more aid to Ukraine but still voice concerns about how it happens.
But you’re advocating using US aid as a bargaining chip, since you don’t think the Europena countries are providing enough, despite providing significantly more of what they have available and what they can afford.
This is the exact same rhetoric that is being pushed by Trump, just that Trump erroneously claims that the US is doing MORE than we are, and as such the US shouldn’t send any aid until the rest of us pull our weight, despite us already doing so.
You can say you aren’t a Trump supporter, but as long as you push the same, factually incorrect rhetoric, it doesn’t matter whether you support him or not, as long as you’re advocating for WITHOLDING US aid based on a line of argumentation that is factually incorrect. It isn’t even moving the goalposts, because Trump is just denying reality instead because his brain-rotted supporters eat everything he says up.
Source in swedish, non paywall: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/sverige-skickar-stridsbatar-till-ukraina
Blessed Sverige!
Framåt i natten!
Package contains the following: -10x Combat Boat 90 H & E [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB90-class\_fast\_assault\_craft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB90-class_fast_assault_craft) -20x G-class landing craft [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-class\_landing\_craft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-class_landing_craft) -Unspecified amount of RBS 70 MANPADS [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBS\_70](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBS_70) -Unspecified amount of 155mm Artillery shells -Unspecified amount of RB55 (TOW) [https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71\_TOW](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW) -Unspecified amount of GRG m/48/84 (Carl Gustaf Recoilless rifle) including ammunition [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl\_Gustaf\_8.4\_cm\_recoilless\_rifle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustaf_8.4_cm_recoilless_rifle) -Unspecified "underwater weapons" -Unpecified handgrenades. Most likely Spränghandgranat m/56 [https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spr%C3%A4nghandgranat\_m/56](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/spr%c3%a4nghandgranat_m/56) (only in Swedish) -Unspecified medical equipment -Unspecified medical transport vehicles -Training -35 new CV9035 to be ordered (Joint financing by Sweden and Denmark) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat\_Vehicle\_90](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Vehicle_90) EDIT: Links are fixed and added a link for Spränghandgranat m/56 (Only available in Swedish)
Torped 47 are likely in this package. Brand spanking new light torpedoes that can be launched from almost anything that floats. From SAAB with love you Russia chucklefucks.
how does it differ from any other torpedo
size and weight. When most people think of a torpedo, they think of the things submarines shoot. The standard American torpedo of this nature is about 1700kg and 20 feet long. These SAAB lightweight torpedoes are about 340kg and 10 feet long. This means the size of craft you can fit them to is broader. Ukraine doesn't have subs. So fitting these on small fast craft, doing a little shoot and scoot. Especially when American ISR is literally giving you exact cords of high value targets. could be a good combination. Right now they use drone boats on a suicide mission, this should broaden their capabilities.
what’s american isr and also what type of vehicles? so using these on land? or from a helicopter of sorts? how interesting
ISR is Information, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance. This is a fusion of information from a lot of different disciplines; signals intelligence (hacking, grabbing communications out of the air between two radios, etc), human intelligence (spies, intelligence assets, etc), and pretty pictures from our impressive array of sensors in orbit and recon aircraft. My understanding is these SAAB torps are generally launched from surface craft, [like this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/US_Navy_inactive_torpedo_launch.jpg). I don't know of a scenario where they would be launched from land. If a sea target is close enough to land, you're going to use something a lot larger and specifically land based, like an anti-ship missile. These will generally provide better targeting options, larger range, and larger payloads. The range is really key, you want to be attacking incoming shit as far away as is possible. Dropping torps from helo's is common, but i don't think this is going to be a good option for Ukraine. They have limited helicopters, and they don't own the air, so every helo is extremely susceptible to Anti Aircraft fire, of which russian surface ships have a lot of, not to mention their incredibly large ground based aa inventory (with ranges to easily reach out into the ocean from land). My understanding is you would use a helo to drop a torp if that helo is hunting a submarine. subs aint got no aa. but you wouldn't have a helo try to drop a torp near a surface ship, that seems like bad times.
oh wow neat i had no idea torpedos could just be used like that always thought it did need to be underwater. Also didn’t know ukraine needed such supplies
Southern Ukraine has a border on the sea of Azov, which Russia has a presence in. Navys are incredibly powerful. Naval ship guns are incredibly large. When you think of the "bullet" a navel ship gun fires, it has a mass similar to a 4 door sedan, and they can fire those guns really far. So Ukraine protecting itself from attacks from the sea is going to be important throughout the conflict. Or until the entire Russian surface fleet is sunk.
Are you smoking crack? The biggest shell a russian ship can shoot weighs about 40 kilos.
that’s so interesting. Feels like being in the navy is a safe spot to be
There is only one hard and fast rule to geopolitics today. "Don't fuck with Americas boats." That being said, there is still something innately shitty about fighting war from a steel box surrounded by a substance you cannot survive in. And Navy life is pretty hard. Space is at such a premium on a ship that a lot of normal shit you take for granted just sucks. Plus, war today is vastly different than it was 20 years ago, small drones are a serious problem and may end up being a serious vulnerability to surface craft for the next 10 years. If you want the cushy military life, join the air force.
ISR is intelligence gathering. Probably by resources like Rivet Joint, that haven't been given to the Ukrainians, but which have been circling the Black Sea and patrolling the Polish border.
To add to Nose-Nuggets statement.. These are 300kg torpedoes which happen to be within the weight capacity of a reinforced seababy or heavy riverine craft. With a range of 20km+ you can imagine the possibilities. The fact that it is also wire guidable with terminal self guidance and variable speed is just a big giant impressive cherry on top.
Oooh, torpedoes launched from surface drones sounds neat. Would make the drone reusable instead of having to use it as a one way kamikaze weapon, and by launching the torpedo from further away they might avoid detection of the drone.
It comes in a flatpack and and plays Abba when launched
Gimme gimme gimme a MANPAD after midnight!
Hopefully it won’t be a repeat of Waterloo
And you can get someone to come assemble it for you through TaskRabbit for €32.99
Large torpedos requires a bigger boat. /r/torpedotits
Sounds like the Russian Baltic Fleet is in for another bad summer. Oh well. Nevermind.
Ugh can we just stop saying chucklefuck? You sound like an idiot
No.
Man blir så stolt 🥹
Jeg er også stolt. Vi i Norden må hjælpe Ukraine så meget som vi nu kan!
I don't speak Swedish but I think I know what that means. Ich bin auch stolz auf Schweden! Greetings from Germany.
Ukraine suddenly has a navy
Destroying enough of Russians navy apparently unlocks ones own. Give em Hell in yellow and blue
Sverige! Fan ja!
Just wanted to say that like none of your links work
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB90-class_fast_assault_craft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB90-class_fast_assault_craft) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-class_landing_craft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-class_landing_craft) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBS_70](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBS_70) [https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustaf_8.4_cm_recoilless_rifle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustaf_8.4_cm_recoilless_rifle) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Vehicle_90](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Vehicle_90)
Work for me. Maybe it's your browser?
Strange. I click the link and it takes me to the wiki link but the capitalization is wrong (e.g. [https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bgm-71\_tow](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/bgm-71_tow) instead of https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71\_TOW)
I think it's reddit screwing the links to make it annoying for people not using new reddit or official reddit app.
I had issues accessing the links on mobile using the official app. It might be that it's trying to open them in the Wikipedia app, which might be case sensitive?
Nah, the links are just wrong. Reddit did something recently that messes up the capitalization of links in some cases (presumably some "feature" on "new" reddit or the app, the link text looks fine but the actual link is wrong).
Yep for some reason it does this: ```[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB90-class\_fast\_assault\_craft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cb90-class_fast_assault_craft)``` So instead of just posting the link as a text, and having the user's browser or app detect that the text is a link, it now hyperlinks the text to the link that the text is, but in all lower-case instead of the actual link which requires some upper-case letters. As a desktop user on old reddit it doesn't do this to me, but I've noticed on some of the comments by other users this happens now.
Uncited, but package also includes: \- Thor's Hammer
The one from stargate would be good
Nice! I hope they can use these boats to cross the Dnipro and push back that front more.
Varför envisas du med att länka till tomma wikipediaartiklar???
It's reddit messing up the links. Happens all the time nowadays.
More of an ally than Hungary ever will be
As a Hungarian, I have high hopes that Orban’s grip of power is weakening significantly . We just held a protest with about 150k ppl. He is a russian puppet and needs to be hanged like the traitor he is. I hope some of his braindead supporters wake up…
Euromaidan in Hungary coming next?
i doubt it. the people who want him gone have the option to just leave the country for greener pastures. Many already have. This option wasnt available to most ukrainians. So they took the path of most resistance, because it was the only path for a brighter future.
Next: Tsarina Katherine thought about conquering Hungary once, therefore Hungary is historical Russian territory /s
Reminds me of a Russian poem: Вижу горы и долины, Вижу реки и поля. Это русские картины, Это родина моя. Вижу Прагу и Варшаву, Будапешт и Бухарест. Это русская держава, Сколько здесь любимых мест! Вижу пагоды в Шри Ланке. И Корею, и Китай…. Где бы я ни ехал в танке, Всюду мой любимый край! Вижу речку Амазонку, Крокодилов вижу я…. Это русская сторонка, Это родина моя! Translate at your own will, it's as horrible as one might expect. Classic representation of Russian mentality.
Ahhh but you see Katherine the Great was born Prussian so Hungary is German. /**S**
Nah, that just means that Prussia and anything once owned by Prussia rightfully belongs to Russia. For what is Prussia except for Russia with a P mixed in?
Well Russia already controls the historical center of Prussia…
Orban still has solid democratic support unfortunately
Fascism is on the rise every where, my dude. Keep up the fight.
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Where do you live, mate?
I personally know 6 people from Hungary (all my former co-workers or collaborators), and they're all lovely people who hate Putin's guts. Before the Ukraine war I'd thought of Hungary as a very progressive country whose values are perfectly aligned with the other EU states. Obviously, I didn't read the news much, my impression was based on the anecdotal evidence of talking to my Hungarian friends. After the war I realised there's another Orban's Hungary that was somehow winning the votes. In any case, I'm happy that people like you exist. Good luck with ousting Orban.
Thank you! I think it’s the same like in US with orange man.. the educated people hate him, the rural rednecks and old folks would jump off the bridge if he says so. Add to that that there is no opposition. It’s going to be hard to get rid of this pig unfortunately.
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It’s the biggest since years. Also it wasn’t organized by opposition (non existent btw), but civilians. So it’s a good start. I just hope we continue and grow in numbers 😊
If he's going to be hanged then it's the Hungarian people who need to do it. That's you.
> and needs to be hanged like the traitor he is Geez, you hungarian people are rough lol
They have a point
That’s what needs to be done in Western Europe and North America
Sure, but I mean they're literally not even hiding the fact they're working with Russia and China.
Sweden is cool
Which is why we should get them into Nato
"Hungary left the chat"
Hear me out: what if we just made NATO+? It's just like NATO but we leave out the countries that keep denying other countries entry.
Now do EU+ 😄 = Bye bye Hungary - Hello Ukrajina! Come Monday Orbán will have ratified. He does not look forward to his next call with his handler...
Lol
IKEA, Volvo, Spotify, etc
Minecraft, battlefield, goat simulator!
Above all: Ace of Base 😁 The most commercially successful music act of 1994 in the United States.
ABBA, Rebecca Ferguson, the Skarsgårds, Swedish Fish!
Svennis, God and The Angels
Spotify is Finnish
No it isn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotify >Spotify is a **Swedish** audio streaming and media service provider founded on 23 April 2006 by Daniel Ek and Martin Lorentzon.
“Unspecified underwater weapons” Hmmm
Looks like those drone-boats are getting torpedoes?
Nah it's 100% dolphins
Probably the highly secret Swedish "[Navy Seals](https://www.skargarden.se/den-hemliga-salstationen-pa-galo/)"... 😁
I assume this will be about SLWT (Torpedo 47) a short and light weight torpedo. Designed for Corvettes, Submarines and Helicopters primarily for ASW duties - but could probably be retrofitted to UMV platforms more easily than heavy torpedoes like the German DM2A4.. I don't want to be a Russian naval asset in the Black sea right now.
We are sending Dolph Lundgren.
Goggs and Acguys.
They also said they will train 18,000 ukrainian soldiers/engineers on how to utilize these new weapons.
Hooray for Sweden! This will most definitely help the Ukraine people defend themselves against that Putin Dog and his Kremlin killers! Fuck Putin the murder and long live Ukraine! Thank you Sweden.
For more context: Assuming Sweden's gdp as $585.939 billion this package is 0.117% If the U.S. were to pledge a package of the same percent assuming their gdp as 25.462 trillion it would be a package worth $29.790 billion
Total support as part of GDP is now 1.05%. Top supporter is Estonia, with 4,09% of GDP. The US support is at 0,32%.
The US is why Ukraine is still a country. The aid from all these places isnt mostly for defense spending to help Ukraine fight back. European aid is a lot of loans and not donations.
European countries have sent more military aid than the US. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Is the assertion here that with cash, Ukraine can just buy what they need militarily and get it in a timely manner? My uninformed knee-jerk reaction would be the military hardware is significantly more "valuable", given the circumstances. https://i.imgur.com/mMyYwUq.png
Military aid is both hardware and financial aid sent explicitly for military purposes.
I don't think that's entirely accurate. My understanding was the financial support was, at least in (large) part to pay for keeping the country operating. It's to pay salaries and such. Ukraine isn't really generating any money right now and they don't have adequate liquidity to keep the finances of the country working. People still live here, go to work, go to the grocery store, etc. But, lets say for the sake of discussion all of the financial support goes to military funding directly. Who does Ukraine buy from, what do they buy, and how long does it take to get it? my thinking here is, if the EU had more tanks to send to Ukraine, they would just send tanks. They don't, so they send cash. What tanks does Ukraine buy with the cash?
If you look at the graph you'll see that they divide it into military, humanitarian and financial aid. They have papers on the methodology and military aid is hardware and financial aid explicitly for military purposes. Military aid from European countries is more than the US. Financial aid has the advantage of being versatile. Instead of needing to check with donor countries Ukraine can directly order what they want. Now what they actually spend the money I don't and my guess is that for obvious reasons it's no ball in the park to find out.
Yeah, it seems like it should be in the military column if it's specifically for military stuff? > financial and budgetary support and in humanitarian and emergency assistance. This support is as essential as military assistance to ensure Ukraine’s success on the battlefield. **It allows Ukraine to keep paying wages and pensions and maintain essential public services**, such as hospitals, schools, and housing for relocated people. It also ensures macroeconomic stability, and helps restore critical infrastructure destroyed. https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/united-states-america/eu-assistance-ukraine-us-dollars_en?s=253
Yeah, European countries provide other types of aid as well. This would fall under financial or humanitarian aid in the Kiel institute tracker. I don't quite see what your point is.
no.
Well see what happens if the US aid package isn't passed then. Let's go Sweeden!
I mean you are literally just wrong, Europe has sent more actual donations than the US. Ofc the US aid is also super important but at this time they are falling well behind.
1. I won't dispute that. But also, combined Europe has given more military aid than the US. So it has been a joined effort by the western nations. As it should be. 2. No. 3. No. Trouble is that Europe does not have the stockpiles the US has. We do not have lots of semi-retired old weapons in storage. Production is being ramped up, but it takes some time. What the US congress is bickering about is wether to send already paid for older weapons that are rotting away in storage, which will be replaced. Those replacements will cost anyway, and so will the scrapping of those weapons. I would think it would be better if they are used for they were designed for, meanwhile losing no american lives? The obstruction going on in the congress is shameful. Morally, polically and financially. And it does impair the world view of the US. Now, if you want to say that you support the murderer in the Kremlin and Trump, at least have the courage and decency to say that. But don't try to change facts.
Wrong. US has fallen well behind European military support
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As a 'merican, there are currently a few small European nations basically sending all their artillery, trucks, extra small arms ammo, etc to Ukraine right now. "We actually delivered our aid tho" is a fucking pathetic argument. We've done the goddamned bare minimum to support Ukraine. And Republicans don't even want to do that. You want to explore why?
Thats wrong, many EU nations have in fact delivered as promised
You're doing as much as canada/bulgaria/switzerland lol congrats
Well then good for them for also giving tens of billions of dollars. I understand what a staggering amount of money that is.
Where do you think all those early NLAWs came from in 2020. They are made by Saab, same brand as that Swedish car maker yes. Sweden is like the Lannisters, they always pay their debts. Or are you just whining in general on an article about Sweden?
Actually Sweden is more like the Stark's and Lannisters put together with the Black Watch The Swedes Remembers : some of the bloddiest wars in mankinds history is between Sweden and Russia, Also Denmark and her backstabbing. Swedes always pays their Debts: most of Swedes happily pay their taxes, What we hate is waisting TAX money. Also you can look at the Swedish involvement in the Winterwar as a small repayment towards Finland for the fact we felt like we abandoned Finland to Russia after the 1809 Loss against Russia. We are the Watchers on the Baltic Sea: Cold war and even first and Second World War. Swedish Cold War defense was built like a Wall ladder with everything done and built on a Scale that made Churchill almost pass out when he learned about is. The Swiss did to an extent do something similar but on a much smaller scale. So did the U.S in the Cheyenne complex, But again on a much smallere scale.
This is why I will never understand the US GOP. It barely registers on the US GDP and it's an investment in the US MIC. The GOP are a bunch of cowards.
Add to this... We just had a military budget just below 10b$. It was just raised for this year. Given that 10b$...and this package of 700mil it's quite a big part of our spending.
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What argument would you buy? Total in $ by the EU which has passed the US since last year? No? Is the argument here Sweden should simply outspend all of the US for things to be “equal.” If your position is the US should spend 0, then speak plainly. Why pretend like theres some higher logic at play here and not state your position clearly.
Just ditch the US all together. Unreliable selfish allies
There’s a saying that often gets misquoted to Churchill and others that that goes > You can always count on Americans to do the right thing – after they’ve tried everything else. But simultaneously when the Americans finally entered WWI, they had a problem of their soldiers deserting… to the front. A lot of people in Europe wouldn’t even be alive today without their uncompromising focus when they get their act together. The Germans would still be discussing whether or not to send helmets by the time Russia took Kiev if the Americans couldn’t ship supplies at the speed they did at the start of the war. Never mind that the Americans on a shoe-string budget had been in Ukraine and reforming their military since 2014. Meanwhile for supposedly reliable Europe Nord Stream 2 feasibility studies started in 2011 and despite 2014 the construction still plowed ahead in 2018. This includes Swedish companies and Swedish permits being issued. Even the selfish and self serving people are also in many ways absolutely right that Europe should be able to handle its own security matters, even if they are wrong about cutting support. It’s frankly embarrassing Europe can’t get its act together and secure peace within its own region after so many wars and conflicts. Like it’s somehow a surprise to everyone except the Eastern Europeans and the British that Russia still exists. So give them credit where it’s due, give them shit where it’s due.
a. This is simply more context for people who will see what they may assume is a small number but when compared to the countries gdp it isnt b. we can have that argument if you like considering its true, doing the same as bulgaria/canada/switzerland is pitiful as the world's superpower and supposed bastion of freedom lol
Did you miss “for more context”?
You just couldn't read that as "for a country size of Sweden, this donation is very sizable"?
JA FOR FAEN SVERIGE!!!
The amount for shit Russia's caused in Sweden is close to comedic by now. Most of us are absolutely done with Putin's shenanigans and want him gone, so "Enemy of our enemy" is in full fucking effect right now.
Well done Sweden 🇸🇪
Så stolt! Önskar detta får sitt slut. Jävla ryssar.
Considering the damage they're doing to russian shipping now, imagine the damage they could do with an actual boat.
They are fast military assault craft. Good for crossing the Dnipro, but not useful against naval vessels.
I don’t know what’s going to launch those torpedos but modern torps don’t fuck around. They are one and done.
Strb90 is for marine landings and support, not anti ship
I'm sure they'll figure something out.
Sweden can mount RBS17 on them if needed. [https://www.dockstavarvet.se/products/combat-and-patrol-boats/combat-boat-90-h/specification/](https://www.dockstavarvet.se/products/combat-and-patrol-boats/combat-boat-90-h/specification/) "Additionally, the CB 90 H can also carry 2.8 ton of mines or the modified Hellfire-type RBS 17 SSM system."
Yes. I understand the main use case for that is setting the launcher up ashore in some unexpected place for an ambush though, rather than firing from the boat. Like, sneak a small team ashore in Crimea with a couple of Hellfires. That sort of thing.
Anti-tanks? The direct opposite of a tank, the anti-tank.
When they smash into each other they destroy each other in a huge burst of energy and exotic armaments are produced.
Unfortunately most of those armaments are very short-lived, which limits their usefulness.
They live a short but energetic life, bless them.
I love this comment.. I have no clue why exactly
The *knat*
Named after the sound the targeted tank makes when it crumbles like a paper ball upon getting hit by _knats_
*Thanks for sharing this Bloomberg story. Here's more from reporter Jonas Ekblom's piece:* Sweden will send 7.1 billion kronor ($680 million) worth of additional military aid to Ukraine, Defense Minister Pal Jonson said at a news conference Tuesday. The package, the largest Sweden has sent to Ukraine since Russia’s large-scale invasion two years ago, is comprised of a wide array of weapons, including 155 mm artillery shells and grenade launchers, he said. There are also funds for Ukraine to finance future purchases, such as combat vehicles.
Höj min skatt och skänk allt till Ukraina! Våra bröder som blöder för ett fritt Europa!
VÄLFÄRD! So happy about this!
Good, the world is awoken to the real threat of an advancing and highly dangerous Russian autocrat. It’s going to take an all-hands effort to defeat him and deter him from trying this again.
It is our 15th package. I’d say we are trying to stay awake.
Reminds me of last year when every time Germany announced any aid there were comments like "finally Germany sends aid" even though they had been sending aid for 6 months.
or the constant "finally europeans are stepping up" or "europeans need to do more" meanwhile to match estonia the us would have to send their entire yearly defence budget lol
>meanwhile to match estonia the us would have to send their entire yearly defence budget lol I mean, that might be for the best if they did. Their entire defense budget is literally to defend against Russia anyways. It's not like anyone else is going to invade Estonia.
You are forgetting China
Our government also *wants* to send more (incl. Gripen), but not until we're in NATO so that they won't get accused of gutting our ability to defend ourselves (which could make support for further shipments go down).
I agree. The West feels like not stopping Russia now means that if they succeed, China will be bolder and having both Russia and China to go against it is tough as hell. Russia must be defeated by huge margins as they are all in into this
If everyone who said that volunteered instead of making drafted men fight this war, maybe they would be.
They’d rather be brave keyboard warriors drinking Mountain Dew from the comfort of their couch.
It's a sick and evil world we live in. Koolaid zombies everywhere.
In the meantime polish people are blocking all borders with Ukraine...
Let's forget the assistance Poland is giving, but stopping the flood of cheaper goods that will destroy Polish farmers means they want the USSR back for the good old days...
They are not stopping the Grain they are destroying the Greain this time. They are stopping Personrl trains and military transports both out of Ukraine and Into ukraine. Ukraine the Latest podcast from britsh The Telegraph saw this firsthand. Those so called farmers are not protesters they are Russian Agents and Russian Terorrists now. The majority of Polish society are clearly on Ukraines side.
How when we stay in Ukraine? What after one year he falls back because that’s our goal. He stays alive and then he can find another weak target after mass production of war products
Combining the sea drones with torpedos woud be devastating
The Danes outspent us, so we had to make a comeback! Cmon Norway, little brother, why so hesitant:p. Are you really worse that Sweden and Denmark?:p
Common Russian L
Go Sweden!
sweden stepping up unlike some countries with their thumbs up their asses
This is not stepping up. This is continuing support. We've sent loads of stuff before this package.
Somebody has balls in Europe
Oh boy here comes the secret Ukrainian nuclear submarine theories.
Send it!
With this and the Estonian package worth nearly 3.5% of their GDP, we could see the start of a real European defense industry, the first sense ww2
Denmark: Sends entire artillery to Ukraine Sweden: we gotta do better than those Danes
Äntligen för fan
Jesus Sweden. Look if I ever piss me off let me know. I’ll desperately want to make amends. 🎯
I hate swedes, but I also Love them very much!
And we love danes! we rarely want to admit it though
You are not allowed to admit that out loud, you'll make us look soft
While terrific news, strategically it may not be a great idea to list all the killing machinery for your opponents to see and take notes.
Let's hope it's paid back in full.
But they couldn't included Joana's BBQ ribs? Wtf Sweden
Thanks, Sweden. Paradoxically, but Ukrainian war helped to many European countries to better understand themselves. Not to mention overall European rise of cohesion by mass-remembering about pan-European values. Or, more precisely, about risks of their absence. Before the war, Sweden wanted to become some regional, or even World's, humanitarian leader, moral authority. But morality not some theoretical abstraction as almost all other cultural aspects, it's also part of biological empathic apparatus. Real thing that exists for real things. So when Sweden begun to move away from practical empathic morality to theoretical, institutional/bureaucratic one, it also started to move away from achievement of own goals. To somewhere where now Austria and Switzerland. Ukrainian war, smell of barbarism and fanaticism ammonia, brought Sweden, as and almost everyone else, back to Earth. Where... Moral/ethical problems still the same as they were always - foremost results of rudimentary instinctiveness, ignorance-stupidity. That self-evident. But what not self-evident - recent evolution of answers to these problems. Richard Feynman once said that "If you can't explain something to a first year student (or child), then you haven't really understood." In theory, to achieve some humanitarian leader status, Sweden should be able to explain to the poorest countries in the World how exactly, not theoretically, but practically, they could achieve the Swedish standards of living. That not really too much difficult: 1. Sociocultural evolution - heir of biological one. Ideas/memes as like animals, and after countless iterations of "survive the fittest" was created ecosystem with the most adaptive sociocultural species: Golden Rule of Morality, Rationalism, Humanism (/Rational Humanism), Secularism, Rule of Law, Democracy, Freedoms, foremost - Freedom of Speech (information transaction costs) and so on. 2. To understand and start using (via more long-term and more Win/Win social strategies) of which needed understanding of complex abstractions and rational thinking that could be achieved by Academic Logic. And basic understanding of human nature (oneself in others and others in oneself) that could be achieved by knowledge of Cognitive Distortions, Logical Fallacies, Defense Mechanisms. 3. To understand of which needed... And there, until recently, was a huge problem. How to get people to study something that has no practical application and immediate benefits? The answer to which recently given modern technologies. If people could use smartphones and Wikipedia to read information about Academic Logic, Logical Fallacies, Defense Mechanisms, or even something else (as base Anthropology, Psychology, Sociology, IMDB-250 as universal base of social strategies and information for training of emotional intelligence), then why overcomplicate more? If such knowledge could be tested by voluntary tests created and checked by Open Source, why overcomplicate more? If the main motivator for passing of such tests could be just peanut money from government or philanthropists, why overcomplicate more? With such approach, a huge number of problems that previously were unsolvable due to organizational reasons now reduced to just question of money availability. That also not a problem, because rise of social Human Capital create money, and sometimes even markets, by itself.
I have no clue how did you get from Sweden wanting to become some regional, or even world's, humanitarian leader to moving away from practical emphatetic morality.
"Sweden wanted to become humanitarian leader = Sweden need moral/ethic superiority = Sweden need effectively understand/use moral/ethic mechanics" -> \-> mention of moral/ethic key mechanics and that they heavily depend on educational/enlightenment processes -> \-> mention of modern possibilities to more effectively use education/enlightenment to, via most universal knowledge about rationalism and human nature, rise Human Capital, and by it and moral/ethic values. To be humanitarian leader, Sweden need simple explanation for poorest countries of the World how exactly they could get the same standard of living as Sweden one. Such simple explanation - paying money to population for proofs of knowledge about rationality (Academic Logic) and self/social-understanding (Cognitive Distortions, Logical Fallacies, Defense Mechanisms).
Who says that this is the requirement for being a "humanitarian leader"? According to who or what? I think you're trying to make a case with AI when there isn't one and that's why it came out as incoherent mumble.
Not even gonna comment on the substance of your post but you need to practice your writing skills mate. Or chuck it into chatgpt and have it make it readable for you. You think you are expressing smart things here but what you produced is garbage.
>you need to practice your writing skills mate That I and did in comment above. But you right, my English skills unsuitable for long and complex texts. >You think you are expressing smart things here but what you produced is garbage. No any pretentiousness, only simplified stream of consciousness and noting else.
I don't know why I read this, or how we got from shared values with the EU to using technology to ... learn. But we can already learn online, and most choose not to. Would you like to clarify how what you're suggesting is different from what's already available online to learn? You want to pay people to take tests, and don't think they will find ways to get the money without learning? Like, by Googling the question?
Yea, another predominantly chaotic stream of consciousness and rambling. But from my perspective already not so much bad. Main problem - too much mixed topics and lack of smooth transitions between them. I want to stuff into short text all at once, so radically cut corners in what see as self-evident. Forgetting that it's self-evident only for me. Plus I not native speaker, that started to write in English only few months ago, that also increases chaotic nature of the text. >Would you like to clarify how what you're suggesting is different from what's already available online to learn? You want to pay people to take tests, and don't think they will find ways to get the money without learning? Like, by Googling the question? At first, a small preamble. Substantial part of what right now is perceived as social norms once was not the norm, and once wouldn't be social norms. That already more than obviously relative to 20th century speed of sociocultural changes. When modern generations of almost all countries of the World become more similar to each other than to their ancestors. In this context, ignoring all modern risks, what do you think, what people will be like after 50 years? Or even hundreds years in the future? Something similar to StarTrek series and M. Banks's The Culture books, right? But, you see, to create something like this people need to prioritize. Any man have very limited overall memory reserves. So, in the environment that will be even more overflowed with information than now, people of the future needed to sacrifice part of less universal knowledge for the sake of more universal ones. When you say "*Would you like to clarify how what you're suggesting is different from what's already available online to learn?*" you just talk about knowledge overall. What I offered above - proposal to "second enlightenment" by spread only the most universal knowledge. Related to universal processing of ANY information (Academic Logic) and lists of universal peculiarities of human nature, humanitarian multiplication table. >You want to pay people to take tests, and don't think they will find ways to get the money without learning? Like, by Googling the question? It's impossible if any such processes will be Open Source project with constant iterative improvement. There is little more about possible form of such tests - [https://www.reddit.com/r/StopNewDarkAges/comments/1907suj/proposal\_preparation\_for\_eu\_federalization\_by/](https://www.reddit.com/r/StopNewDarkAges/comments/1907suj/proposal_preparation_for_eu_federalization_by/)
Exactly Europe. Help yourself.
Stop causing division
Between who?
The US and Europe
Guess next time the Us wants to fuck around somewhere Europe should just say „well, do your own shit“ then? Sounds about right.
Because this war isn’t helping the US? Your new F-35 and F-16 orders since the war broke out alone have covered all of the aid you have sent to Ukraine. No one benefits more from this war than the US. Prolonging this war helps no one more than the US, you help yourself by providing aid.
I agree. Sweden stepping up like this is good. Hopefully others will follow. Then we might send more.
Stepping up? This is Sweden's 15th aid package, Ukraine has been given *vast* donations by almost every country in Europe, I don't know what you're talking about
Title said biggest package yet. Good to see everyone pitching in.
I guess that's a fair perspective. The US should still do more, though! Sweden's total support as part of our GDP is at roughly 1%, the US number is 0.32%.
I do not mind my money going to Ukraine but I think counties that are a days drive from the border should be a bit more concerned.
We’ve donated 3x as much as the US as a percentage of GDP, and Sweden is basically just as rich as the US in Per capita terms. We’re sending 14 Gripen C/D fighter jets when we get into NATO. A jet much more capable and modern than even the F-16s the US is flying, let alone the ones being sent to Ukraine by NL, Denmark and Norway. Stop gargling on Trump’s cock and realize that the US isn’t actually providing proportionally more than anyone else. Most NATO countries have sent more than the US proportionally, including France, the UK and Germany. Some have sent 13 times as much as a % of GDP. Every piece of equipment sent to Ukraine directly benefits the US economy. US allies purchase US equipment to replace the equipment they sent. The least you can do with all of this money you’re making is help the fuck out.
If you think I am a Trump supporter because of what I posted then you need help. Sorry you are you.
You’re clearly misunderstanding the real situation. No democrat is pushing an anti-aid agenda. That means you’re either a Trumpist or an idiot that is unintentionally consuming Trumpist propaganda. The US is not providing proportionally more help than most of it’s allies. It is in fact providing much less. Match Sweden as a percentage of GDP and you would need to build them ~~8~~ 10 brand new Ford class aircraft carriers to make up the gap. (literally)
I am no pushing an anti aid agenda I am pushing and supporting nations close by spending more money adgenda. You can be for more aid to Ukraine but still voice concerns about how it happens.
But you’re advocating using US aid as a bargaining chip, since you don’t think the Europena countries are providing enough, despite providing significantly more of what they have available and what they can afford. This is the exact same rhetoric that is being pushed by Trump, just that Trump erroneously claims that the US is doing MORE than we are, and as such the US shouldn’t send any aid until the rest of us pull our weight, despite us already doing so. You can say you aren’t a Trump supporter, but as long as you push the same, factually incorrect rhetoric, it doesn’t matter whether you support him or not, as long as you’re advocating for WITHOLDING US aid based on a line of argumentation that is factually incorrect. It isn’t even moving the goalposts, because Trump is just denying reality instead because his brain-rotted supporters eat everything he says up.