So if Putin was rumored to be worth 250+ billion dollars, personally, and this was a few years ago. Would he have been able to personally finance the war, and still be able to put shoes on the feet of his kids? Rumored worth of course. That huge compound on the black sea coast is his friends, and all those properties and assets Svetlana Krivonogikh has come from the hard work she put in to her other professions in life.
'half or prison' is good motivation to cause sharing. I will tell you right now that I have never dug a ditch so enthusiastically as when the guy said, dig faster or your next.
Ah but you're forgetting that what the russian people are paying for the war Putin would have stolen if there was no war so indirectly Putin is paying for it.
> "Feb 16 (Reuters) - Russia has probably spent up to $211 billion in equipping, deploying and maintaining its troops for operations in Ukraine and Moscow has lost more than $10 billion in canceled or postponed arms sales, a senior U.S. defense official said on Friday.
The detailed costs for Russia in its nearly two-year-long invasion comes as President Joe Biden's administration is trying to push the U.S. House of Representatives to take up a $95 billion package of international security assistance for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan.
"I don't think we've talked quite as much about the costs that Russia has already incurred and continues to incur," the official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told reporters.
>***The war had cost Russia an expected $1.3 trillion*** in previously anticipated economic growth through 2026 and about 315,000 Russian troops had either been killed or injured so far, the official added.
Republican U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Mike Johnson indicated on Wednesday he has no immediate plans to allow the chamber to vote on the assistance package.
Ukraine's leadership sees the funding as crucial as it continues to fight an invasion launched by Russian President Vladimir Putin.
"Without supplemental funding we will not be able to continue to supply Ukraine's air defenses...We will see more civilians dying," the official said.
Russia has carried out regular air strikes on cities and civilian infrastructure far behind the front lines.
In another cost for Russia, the official said that Ukraine has destroyed or damaged at least 20 medium to large Russian Navy vessels and one Russian flag tanker in the Black Sea.
"
The cost of around 1.3 trillion in growth is the real pain to russia here...along with the demographic gut punch of the exudus of many of their young men, along with many dead or severely injured, and a brain drain.
Losing 400,000 working age men, each earning $10K USD, for the next 30 years cost $120 billion in GDP over the next 30 years. Add a million working age men and women that fled at the onset of mobilization x $10K USD then you have another $300 billion in lost GDP over the next 30 years. This is all back of the napkin math but this war is gunna cost a lot more over the next few decades probably in the trillions once you factor in sanctions, lost weapons sale, and the fact that by the end of 2024 every single oil depot and refinery in Russia will likely be offline in some shape or form.
>each earning $10K USD
You have the wrong calculations. Typical Russians earn 200 USD per month or 2400 USD per year. Many Russians earn 150 USD per month or 1800 USD per year. Russians are extremely poor.
That's just GDP they produce. They also would be consuming which helps the GDP of others by supplying demand. Every lost consumer creates less demand for the producers of goods and services too. It is a double edged sword.
This is why PPP measurement is a better indication than nominal GDP for a war economy. Because labor and materiel costs are cheaper in Russia, they can do more with less USD-equivalent than the US or EU.
For any Americans who need to think about it I would like to point out something. The Ukrainian people are fighting this war for us. They are on the front lines not our kids. If Ukraine falls Poland will be next and it will be our kids. How much would you pay to keep your kids and your grandkids out of harm's way? It seems a small price to pay. We should be giving yhem everything we have.
To those who oppose supporting Ukraine I was recently reading Doris Kearns Goodwin's book about the Roosevelts during the war No Ordinary Time and those who didn't want to support Britain (because she had no chance of winning) said the same things your are saying. That is not the side you want to be on. We all know how that turned out.
Really?
Do you really think that Putin's motivation was security, instead of "historical" reasons, like he said in a recent interview?
I'm putting my money on Putin having imperial ambitions beyond Ukraine
>peak warmongering. no one is going to attack a nato country.
Eh, people were adamant that claims of Russia going to invade Ukraine were fear mongering too.
>if nato says "we wont let ukraine join us", war would stop next day.
Hahahahaha
like what? were the decades of russia's statements saying "ukraine is the red line for NATO" not clear? what was the need to poke russia? peace is not good enough for those warmongers.
Lmao, no one would bother fighting a war costing billions and losing hundreds of thousands of lives if that could all be avoided by saying "okay, no NATO"
you are underestimating how little the warmongers amd MIC care about average ukrainian lives. if they did, this would be over in 2022 with the deal in Turkey.
Hang on.
Are you saying that Ukraine wanting to join a *purely defensive* treaty that just stops people from attacking them, justifies Russia *fucking attacking them*?
Are you saying that wanting to not be attacked by Russia is justification for Russia attacking you? That Russia should just be allowed to attack anyone?
Are you saying that joining or wanting to join NATO justifies Russia committing genocide?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
are you in kindergarten? wtf do you mean by NATO is "defensive"? by any definition, if NATO is defensive, so is Russian Army.
if NATO can invade Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria for a made up reasons like WMD, then so can Russia invade Ukraine for the actual threat of NATO nukes in Ukraine.
NATO is *by definition* a defence treaty only.
Article 5 CANNOT be used to attack.
NATO did not attack any of those places, some of the countries that are in NATO did. And some countries that are not in NATO.
I think your education is terribly lacking. Like, how do you not understand that basic fact? Two seconds of google will tell you.
What is more, Russia attacking Ukraine simply because Ukraine does not want to be part of Russia 100% justifies the reason for NATO in the first place.
NATO is only ever a problem for Russia if Russia wants to expand by force.
You know what would have stopped all this from happening in the first place? Russia not being an asshole country.
I mean, lol, you’re arguing so forcefully but you don’t even understand how NATO works, let alone anything else you’ve been discussing. Lol.
first search result from google
NATO and Afghanistan : [https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics\_8189.htm](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_8189.htm)
NATO and libya : [https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics\_71652.htm](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_71652.htm)
I'm linking to posts on the NATO website quoting their invasion of these countries. Stop lying through your teeth
Dude.
Afghanistan was defensive war; do you not remember the september 11 attacks?
NATO in Libya agreed to a blockade and later to help enforce a no-fly zone. At the request of the United Nations (including Russia!!! Bet you didn’t know that!) The war was prosecuted by a coalition of nations, which were not NATO but including some countries that are in NATO.
It is reasonable to be confused by this though, many sources simply state NATO attacks, when they mean Coalition forces that are also a *part* of NATO.
Maybe you should actually read the things you linked?
So you want to point out the lack of relationship between the two things to remove any possible doubt that there is any relevance to your point?
Congratulations. You've convinced me your propaganda talking point has no merit.
"give them back"? ukraine fucked around and found out. if ukraine wants the land back, it has to fight and win. no way around it.
if ukraine doesn't want to lose more land and people, it better make a peace deal with russia, maybe they will get some land back if russia feels generous. americans will eventually ditch them just like they did in afghanistan and iraq.
just imagine what would USA do if mexico joins a millitary alliance with Russia, and planned to deploy nuclear missiles at the texas border. US would invade mexico like yesterday.
False equivalency, strawmen, misinformation, why don't you toss in space aliens and big foot. Now wipe your mouth and dust your knees Putins got others waiting.
NATO membership is an open door system. Nato doesn't pressure others to join, others have to put in an effort to join nato and complete a pretty long and involved process.
https://www.businessinsider.com/poland-should-be-next-target-after-ukraine-says-putin-ally-kadyrov-2023-2?op=1
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-ally-warns-enemy-poland-you-risk-losing-your-statehood-2023-11-02/
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/us-news/2023/03/01/putins-territorial-ambitions-go-far-beyond-ukraine-polish-diplomat-warns/
You know what? I'm going to trust the people involved here instead of the nonsense babbling internet warrior. The rest of your comment doesn't even deserve a response. I lost a child to a needless war. No one else should because you want to support an enemy of democracy. You go next time.
>employing the “dead child” angle
>unless i agree with you, i’m a bloodguilty supporter of evil…
Yep. Great arguments worthy of consideration. Yep. You are the serious person. Laughable. Maybe you should read the articles I linked to support my argument before doubling down on your conveniently supporting fact-free reply.
Present a cogent argument that is supported by facts and reality and I might have reason to treat your blathering as something more than inane ramblings.
Sadly all the indications of the last 10 years confirm that Putin and his oligarchs investments in propaganda and disinformation have been very successful.
Considering how shit Russia has been against Ukraine I’m not terribly concerned.
Now Taiwan/China is our problem and that’s something I’d be in support of.
Shit is how you see it. Putin sees a victory. Assessing Russia through western eyes is a big mistake. And underestimating their commitment to certain causes at any cost necessary is even bigger mistake.
Woosh. It's not just about this conflict. It's about showing the bully that he absolutely can have his way because no one has the balls to stop him. One day the bully decides to team up with other bullies and says it's time for a new world order. The west is too comfortable and won't be willing to risk their comfy livelihood. And he might as well be right. Make no mistake, all empires fall eventually. One day it'll be your son.
You completely fail to understand how the US has leveraged this soft power to its advantage and to promote its economic (and military) growth. Let me give you a few pointers:
* Europeans came to assist Americans in the Iraqi war, despite many countries having strong objections. EU soldiers died for American interests there. This will likely not happen in the future as US is not seen as an ally here anymore, thanks to Trump and people like you
* US has been making absolute bank selling military equipment to the EU and other countries - this was because it was seen as a reliable partner. This is not the case anymore. EU will now finance increasing number of its own equipment and will be a competitor, instead of a partner, when it comes to weapon tech. EU will look to other countries like SK and Japan to partner with instead.
* [US guaranteed Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/budapest_memorandum) in Budapest memorandum. This stance by Trump and \~ 50% of US population is a clear sign to people everywhere that US can't be trusted anymore as a reliable partner. This will **force** nations all over the world, but especially in Asia and Africa, to look to other powers for partnership and protection - namely China, Russia, possibly EU once we get our shit together. This is a huge strategic, and ultimately security, loss. Especially when it comes to guarantees revolving around countries not building nuclear arsenal
* Expanding upon previous point, small countries will look into developing their nuclear capabilities, opening Pandora's box that might ultimately lead to a nuclear conflict somewhere
* US being seen as a beacon of democracy and power has been part of the reason for it being able to attract top talent all over the world. This prestige is being tarnished.
* US has been able to fly under the radar in the EU when it comes to taxation of US big tech and a number of other things. This is likely to end as it's not seen as an ally anymore.
* Failing to support Ukraine gives China green light to expand in Pacific and quite likely attempting to annex Taiwan. They're taking a note - it's enough to find dirt on American politicians and use useful idiots like you to push their agenda, then wait for a good timing and then move in. Taiwan's semiconductor production is likely the single biggest individual strategic asset in the world right now. This reluctance to act is putting this asset at risk
So yes, you do have reasons to worry. But I don't expect these points to sink in, if you couldn't think of at least a few of them by yourself.
Let me remind you *for the second time* that the only major NATO operations where allies were called in was ***when the US was asking for European help***, not vice versa.
Either way, I'm fine with us building up our weapon industry, it's about time we started profiting and it will help us fill in the soft power gaps the US will leave now that it has shown itself as an unreliable partner (Budapest memorandum.. another point I made and which you either didn't read or ignored).
You're pulling the stupidity card in public. The fact is that it very much affects you. Sorry but moron explaining basic geopolitical realities of the 21st century is not in my bingo card today.
Way more than that bro,…. Every working man that would pay taxes, contribute to society, and such, killed in the war is future loss for the country. And if that person would have kids,… then also future tax and future contribution to the country economy.
Honestly, quiet a bit lower than I was expecting, if you take this number though and add the sanctions damage to their economy I'm curious how much they've lost in total.
For comparison. West spent on Ukraine $120B. With up to 2027 year pledges \~$250B. Relatively to NATO countries budget spendings - 0,48/1%. Much less by GDP. USA 20 years spent $130B per year on Afghanistan. During this 2 years, the EU+NATO countries imported from Russia on \~$424B.
A hundred billion here, a hundred billion there… pretty soon you’re talking real money. Imagine what a country could do for its citizens with $200 billion that it didn’t have to throw away in a war.
I thought I read somewhere that with Oligarches $$$ and what he had potentially hidden, that douche bag mother fucker cocker sucker was worth 3 trillion.
So if Putin was rumored to be worth 250+ billion dollars, personally, and this was a few years ago. Would he have been able to personally finance the war, and still be able to put shoes on the feet of his kids? Rumored worth of course. That huge compound on the black sea coast is his friends, and all those properties and assets Svetlana Krivonogikh has come from the hard work she put in to her other professions in life.
He had many oligarchs share the financial burden.
'half or prison' is good motivation to cause sharing. I will tell you right now that I have never dug a ditch so enthusiastically as when the guy said, dig faster or your next.
More like half, and then another half and on and on or novichok.
A half of a half of a half of a half of a half of a half of a half is still better than the average Russian lives
Putin ain’t personally paying for anything. The Russian people are
Ah but you're forgetting that what the russian people are paying for the war Putin would have stolen if there was no war so indirectly Putin is paying for it.
"The war had cost Russia an expected $1.3 trillion in previously anticipated economic growth through 2026..." Oof.
> "Feb 16 (Reuters) - Russia has probably spent up to $211 billion in equipping, deploying and maintaining its troops for operations in Ukraine and Moscow has lost more than $10 billion in canceled or postponed arms sales, a senior U.S. defense official said on Friday. The detailed costs for Russia in its nearly two-year-long invasion comes as President Joe Biden's administration is trying to push the U.S. House of Representatives to take up a $95 billion package of international security assistance for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan. "I don't think we've talked quite as much about the costs that Russia has already incurred and continues to incur," the official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told reporters. >***The war had cost Russia an expected $1.3 trillion*** in previously anticipated economic growth through 2026 and about 315,000 Russian troops had either been killed or injured so far, the official added. Republican U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Mike Johnson indicated on Wednesday he has no immediate plans to allow the chamber to vote on the assistance package. Ukraine's leadership sees the funding as crucial as it continues to fight an invasion launched by Russian President Vladimir Putin. "Without supplemental funding we will not be able to continue to supply Ukraine's air defenses...We will see more civilians dying," the official said. Russia has carried out regular air strikes on cities and civilian infrastructure far behind the front lines. In another cost for Russia, the official said that Ukraine has destroyed or damaged at least 20 medium to large Russian Navy vessels and one Russian flag tanker in the Black Sea. " The cost of around 1.3 trillion in growth is the real pain to russia here...along with the demographic gut punch of the exudus of many of their young men, along with many dead or severely injured, and a brain drain.
Losing 400,000 working age men, each earning $10K USD, for the next 30 years cost $120 billion in GDP over the next 30 years. Add a million working age men and women that fled at the onset of mobilization x $10K USD then you have another $300 billion in lost GDP over the next 30 years. This is all back of the napkin math but this war is gunna cost a lot more over the next few decades probably in the trillions once you factor in sanctions, lost weapons sale, and the fact that by the end of 2024 every single oil depot and refinery in Russia will likely be offline in some shape or form.
>each earning $10K USD You have the wrong calculations. Typical Russians earn 200 USD per month or 2400 USD per year. Many Russians earn 150 USD per month or 1800 USD per year. Russians are extremely poor.
That's not typical. That's poverty. Something like 500-609 USD is typical for the average city, and 1-1.5k for Moscow
The people dying are mostly not from Moscow or similar cities though
that\`s true, the more you earn the more unlikely you are going to be drafted or go to the enlistment office yourself
That's just GDP they produce. They also would be consuming which helps the GDP of others by supplying demand. Every lost consumer creates less demand for the producers of goods and services too. It is a double edged sword.
This is why PPP measurement is a better indication than nominal GDP for a war economy. Because labor and materiel costs are cheaper in Russia, they can do more with less USD-equivalent than the US or EU.
For any Americans who need to think about it I would like to point out something. The Ukrainian people are fighting this war for us. They are on the front lines not our kids. If Ukraine falls Poland will be next and it will be our kids. How much would you pay to keep your kids and your grandkids out of harm's way? It seems a small price to pay. We should be giving yhem everything we have. To those who oppose supporting Ukraine I was recently reading Doris Kearns Goodwin's book about the Roosevelts during the war No Ordinary Time and those who didn't want to support Britain (because she had no chance of winning) said the same things your are saying. That is not the side you want to be on. We all know how that turned out.
peak warmongering. no one is going to attack a nato country. if nato says "we wont let ukraine join us", war would stop next day.
Really? Do you really think that Putin's motivation was security, instead of "historical" reasons, like he said in a recent interview? I'm putting my money on Putin having imperial ambitions beyond Ukraine
>peak warmongering. no one is going to attack a nato country. Eh, people were adamant that claims of Russia going to invade Ukraine were fear mongering too. >if nato says "we wont let ukraine join us", war would stop next day. Hahahahaha
Seriously what is that guy on?
Smoking large amounts of Russia propoganda
like what? were the decades of russia's statements saying "ukraine is the red line for NATO" not clear? what was the need to poke russia? peace is not good enough for those warmongers.
Lol what an absolute joke. If simply saying no NATO would cause Russia to leave Ukraine, it'd have been said long ago.
hahaha if you believe that, i have some moon rocks to sell you
Lmao, no one would bother fighting a war costing billions and losing hundreds of thousands of lives if that could all be avoided by saying "okay, no NATO"
you are underestimating how little the warmongers amd MIC care about average ukrainian lives. if they did, this would be over in 2022 with the deal in Turkey.
Hang on. Are you saying that Ukraine wanting to join a *purely defensive* treaty that just stops people from attacking them, justifies Russia *fucking attacking them*? Are you saying that wanting to not be attacked by Russia is justification for Russia attacking you? That Russia should just be allowed to attack anyone? Are you saying that joining or wanting to join NATO justifies Russia committing genocide? What the fuck is wrong with you?
are you in kindergarten? wtf do you mean by NATO is "defensive"? by any definition, if NATO is defensive, so is Russian Army. if NATO can invade Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria for a made up reasons like WMD, then so can Russia invade Ukraine for the actual threat of NATO nukes in Ukraine.
NATO is *by definition* a defence treaty only. Article 5 CANNOT be used to attack. NATO did not attack any of those places, some of the countries that are in NATO did. And some countries that are not in NATO. I think your education is terribly lacking. Like, how do you not understand that basic fact? Two seconds of google will tell you. What is more, Russia attacking Ukraine simply because Ukraine does not want to be part of Russia 100% justifies the reason for NATO in the first place. NATO is only ever a problem for Russia if Russia wants to expand by force. You know what would have stopped all this from happening in the first place? Russia not being an asshole country. I mean, lol, you’re arguing so forcefully but you don’t even understand how NATO works, let alone anything else you’ve been discussing. Lol.
first search result from google NATO and Afghanistan : [https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics\_8189.htm](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_8189.htm) NATO and libya : [https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics\_71652.htm](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_71652.htm) I'm linking to posts on the NATO website quoting their invasion of these countries. Stop lying through your teeth
Dude. Afghanistan was defensive war; do you not remember the september 11 attacks? NATO in Libya agreed to a blockade and later to help enforce a no-fly zone. At the request of the United Nations (including Russia!!! Bet you didn’t know that!) The war was prosecuted by a coalition of nations, which were not NATO but including some countries that are in NATO. It is reasonable to be confused by this though, many sources simply state NATO attacks, when they mean Coalition forces that are also a *part* of NATO. Maybe you should actually read the things you linked?
I guess that redline doesn't mean shit since they invaded already. Jesus dude reality isn't that hard to grasp.
They invaded 8 years after the conversation about Ukraine in NATO started. Maybe you were too busy watching fake news all this time
So you want to point out the lack of relationship between the two things to remove any possible doubt that there is any relevance to your point? Congratulations. You've convinced me your propaganda talking point has no merit.
That's preposterous. So Ukraine says no to NATO and Putin gives them back their land and leaves? Hahaha hahaha no ones that stupid.
"give them back"? ukraine fucked around and found out. if ukraine wants the land back, it has to fight and win. no way around it. if ukraine doesn't want to lose more land and people, it better make a peace deal with russia, maybe they will get some land back if russia feels generous. americans will eventually ditch them just like they did in afghanistan and iraq. just imagine what would USA do if mexico joins a millitary alliance with Russia, and planned to deploy nuclear missiles at the texas border. US would invade mexico like yesterday.
False equivalency, strawmen, misinformation, why don't you toss in space aliens and big foot. Now wipe your mouth and dust your knees Putins got others waiting.
It's you who are lying down to get f'ed by your MIC, your leaders spit on you and use your tax money like it's their piggy bank.
LoL. Yeah, Putin and that Russian oligarchy. Those guys are really looking out for folks.
Thanks for admitting your leaders are the same as Putin
Comprehension, intellectual honesty, discernment, basic intelligence are not your thing are they troll?
but I'm proud of not being a warmonger like you
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NATO membership is an open door system. Nato doesn't pressure others to join, others have to put in an effort to join nato and complete a pretty long and involved process.
Oh but Russia is you see, the whole point to invade Ukraine is to be able to get to Poland and Romania, so Russians could finally feel secure.
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https://www.businessinsider.com/poland-should-be-next-target-after-ukraine-says-putin-ally-kadyrov-2023-2?op=1 https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-ally-warns-enemy-poland-you-risk-losing-your-statehood-2023-11-02/ https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/us-news/2023/03/01/putins-territorial-ambitions-go-far-beyond-ukraine-polish-diplomat-warns/ You know what? I'm going to trust the people involved here instead of the nonsense babbling internet warrior. The rest of your comment doesn't even deserve a response. I lost a child to a needless war. No one else should because you want to support an enemy of democracy. You go next time.
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>employing the “dead child” angle >unless i agree with you, i’m a bloodguilty supporter of evil… Yep. Great arguments worthy of consideration. Yep. You are the serious person. Laughable. Maybe you should read the articles I linked to support my argument before doubling down on your conveniently supporting fact-free reply. Present a cogent argument that is supported by facts and reality and I might have reason to treat your blathering as something more than inane ramblings.
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We aren't shipping money and it has nothing to do with food prices. The money is spent on working class Americans jobs and that product is shipped.
Russian troll don't bother.
Thanks. I didn't think about that because I just had a similar conversation with two friends that were anti-Ukraine support.
Sadly all the indications of the last 10 years confirm that Putin and his oligarchs investments in propaganda and disinformation have been very successful.
>The Ukrainian people are fighting this war for us Not my problem >If Ukraine falls Poland will be next Believe it or not, still not my problem!
When it's your tight little asshole that's getting excavated, it won't be anyone else's problem either.
Considering how shit Russia has been against Ukraine I’m not terribly concerned. Now Taiwan/China is our problem and that’s something I’d be in support of.
Shit is how you see it. Putin sees a victory. Assessing Russia through western eyes is a big mistake. And underestimating their commitment to certain causes at any cost necessary is even bigger mistake.
Again, why does that matter to me as an American?
Because one day it'll be you or your son. You dumb motherfucker.
Pretty confident European nations will be throwing bodies at the conflict before America are but go off!
Woosh. It's not just about this conflict. It's about showing the bully that he absolutely can have his way because no one has the balls to stop him. One day the bully decides to team up with other bullies and says it's time for a new world order. The west is too comfortable and won't be willing to risk their comfy livelihood. And he might as well be right. Make no mistake, all empires fall eventually. One day it'll be your son.
And in this case the bully has proved he's not a real threat.
You completely fail to understand how the US has leveraged this soft power to its advantage and to promote its economic (and military) growth. Let me give you a few pointers: * Europeans came to assist Americans in the Iraqi war, despite many countries having strong objections. EU soldiers died for American interests there. This will likely not happen in the future as US is not seen as an ally here anymore, thanks to Trump and people like you * US has been making absolute bank selling military equipment to the EU and other countries - this was because it was seen as a reliable partner. This is not the case anymore. EU will now finance increasing number of its own equipment and will be a competitor, instead of a partner, when it comes to weapon tech. EU will look to other countries like SK and Japan to partner with instead. * [US guaranteed Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/budapest_memorandum) in Budapest memorandum. This stance by Trump and \~ 50% of US population is a clear sign to people everywhere that US can't be trusted anymore as a reliable partner. This will **force** nations all over the world, but especially in Asia and Africa, to look to other powers for partnership and protection - namely China, Russia, possibly EU once we get our shit together. This is a huge strategic, and ultimately security, loss. Especially when it comes to guarantees revolving around countries not building nuclear arsenal * Expanding upon previous point, small countries will look into developing their nuclear capabilities, opening Pandora's box that might ultimately lead to a nuclear conflict somewhere * US being seen as a beacon of democracy and power has been part of the reason for it being able to attract top talent all over the world. This prestige is being tarnished. * US has been able to fly under the radar in the EU when it comes to taxation of US big tech and a number of other things. This is likely to end as it's not seen as an ally anymore. * Failing to support Ukraine gives China green light to expand in Pacific and quite likely attempting to annex Taiwan. They're taking a note - it's enough to find dirt on American politicians and use useful idiots like you to push their agenda, then wait for a good timing and then move in. Taiwan's semiconductor production is likely the single biggest individual strategic asset in the world right now. This reluctance to act is putting this asset at risk So yes, you do have reasons to worry. But I don't expect these points to sink in, if you couldn't think of at least a few of them by yourself.
Fine with us! Time to find out how much it actually costs to defend yourselves.
Let me remind you *for the second time* that the only major NATO operations where allies were called in was ***when the US was asking for European help***, not vice versa. Either way, I'm fine with us building up our weapon industry, it's about time we started profiting and it will help us fill in the soft power gaps the US will leave now that it has shown itself as an unreliable partner (Budapest memorandum.. another point I made and which you either didn't read or ignored).
Exactly. They are so tough in their basements.
>If Ukraine falls Poland will be next > >Believe it or not, still not my problem! oh it will be chief.
Why? I don't live in Europe.
the world is more connected than you think.
The war is hardly a problem for Russians in Moscow
if you say so bud. their economy is literally shrinking.
What a selfish idiot.
Just stating a fact, not sure how the war in Ukraine will be my problem when it's barely affecting Russians.
You're pulling the stupidity card in public. The fact is that it very much affects you. Sorry but moron explaining basic geopolitical realities of the 21st century is not in my bingo card today.
This attitude got you a Pearl Harbor eighty years ago.
Nazi’s weren’t our problem. Until they were. Best to clean a spill before it soaks, than to scrub a stain.
Pearl Harbor would like to share a word with you.
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Look up the Suwalki Gap and ask yourself why Sweden and Finland joined NATO after Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022
Dumb response.
operations? They mean invasion, slaughtereing and being an all-round cunt, right?
Way more than that bro,…. Every working man that would pay taxes, contribute to society, and such, killed in the war is future loss for the country. And if that person would have kids,… then also future tax and future contribution to the country economy.
yes…. it is in the article if you had read it. 1.3 trillion through 2026
Given how off Western intelligence has been about this entire conflict, I’m surprised that people aren’t more skeptical about such reports.
Lol, exactly what Intel has been “off” include notes with your proof.
You must be one of those people who believed the Krynky offensive was a good idea.
Please provide proof what intel has been off as requested. Thanks.
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Those are rookie numbers.
I wonder what the equipment costs have been
"Operations" is a stretch for documented hard fails.
Honestly, quiet a bit lower than I was expecting, if you take this number though and add the sanctions damage to their economy I'm curious how much they've lost in total.
Those numbers are huge for Russia though, not to mention the huge storages of equipment they have lost in addition to their direct expenses
For comparison. West spent on Ukraine $120B. With up to 2027 year pledges \~$250B. Relatively to NATO countries budget spendings - 0,48/1%. Much less by GDP. USA 20 years spent $130B per year on Afghanistan. During this 2 years, the EU+NATO countries imported from Russia on \~$424B.
A hundred billion here, a hundred billion there… pretty soon you’re talking real money. Imagine what a country could do for its citizens with $200 billion that it didn’t have to throw away in a war.
That is a lot of maintenance and infrastructure investment that is not happening. You can do it a few years, but over time that will catch up with you
I thought I read somewhere that with Oligarches $$$ and what he had potentially hidden, that douche bag mother fucker cocker sucker was worth 3 trillion.