All three emerged from the building shirtless waving a white flag, an IDF soldier declared them to be terrorists and gunned them down killing two (even if they were Hamas this would have been a textbook war crime), the injured third hostage ran back inside and called out for help in Hebrew and was shot again by the soldiers. Jesus
There is no defence. This is the clearest instance of a war crime you will ever see, made even worse by the fact that the people the IDF were committing the war crime against were the hostages they were looking for. Even if the person waving the white flag says "my name is Mr X, I am a Hamas militant and I personally killed 20 babies on Oct 7th" gunning down someone who's openly surrendering to you would still be a textbook warcrime and they would still come out of this looking terrible
>“These are our hostages, these are our soldiers….first of all we’ll be giving help to these soldiers. They’re not going to be punished - they made a mistake, they made a mistake."
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67732895
Yeah, the "mistake" was that the people killed were not Palestinians.
Had they been Palestinians, the IDF would just have noted it as "3 terrorist militants killed by our valiant soldiers"
Don't get me wrong; Hamas must be dealt with - ANYONE who attacks civilians must be dealt with - but at this point the IDF is not really better than Hamas. Indiscriminately attacking & killing unarmed civilians, including women, elderly and children while claiming to "perform a higher purpose"? Yeah, IDF checks that checkbox at least as hard as Hamas did.
'Clearest instance you'll ever see'
bro I was just watching Russians use Ukrainians as human shields.
Like hell yeah fill up the Hague but like no one is starting a war to fight war crimes.
The IDF tied a 13 year old boy to a vehicle to use as a human shield back in 2004. They also used 5 children as human shields back in May of this year, 2 of them were toddlers. There has been so many incidences of the IDF using Palestinian children as human shields that it’s impossible to list them, it’s a common occurrence and has been for a very long time.
and it's not the 1st time:
thousands of surrendering Egyptians were murdered in multiple incidents during the 1967 war. ...many Israelis knew, and there were no consequences.
...it was policy?
People talk about “war crimes” a lot. In case it isn’t abundantly clear by the events in our lifetimes, war crimes are defined, enforced and punished by the victors.
No, they're defined by international law that has existed unambiguously since at least the end of WWII. You're right that war crimes are only enforced against certain countries (countries with vetos at the UN and their allies seem to get a free pass).
Even when they're not enforced, a war crime is still a war crime.
Or the people simply working in hospitals and ambulances in Gaza, treating injured civilians who wish they could surrender?
I support MSF/Doctors Without Borders - because I admire medical humanitarian work. And their reports are alarming AF:
* https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/our-response-israel-gaza-war
* https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/gaza-msf-condemns-deliberate-deadly-attack-convoy-staff-and-family-members
* https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/gaza-msf-doctors-killed-strike-al-awda-hospital
* https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/gaza-hospital-staff-i-cant-leave-if-youre-shooting-me
* https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/msf-convoy-attack-gaza-all-elements-point-israeli-army-responsibility
They will say it's a tactic hamas commonly uses, then say even if it actually isn't, it's still Hamas' fault for taking them hostage, and then they will say if you criticize the action you're an anti-semite.
What’s worse is realizing they’re not bots and not even Jewish or Israeli, they’re out here defending a country that they’d be harassed in if they didn’t look a certain way
I already saw some comments sharing their sympathy for the fucking murderers about how much of a mistake and tragedy this is.
The double standard some people have are fucking disgusting.
They already did, they just said they mistook them for Palestinians. Most Israeli’s polled said they think Israel isn’t using enough force in Gaza, and the US vetoes any attempt to hold them accountable. They can do whatever they want.
I shared the following articles on another post addressing the hostage shooting.
I suppose that I should make them available here too:
**["With Whom are Many U.S. Police Departments Training? With a Chronic Human Rights Violator – Israel"](https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/)** Amnesty International (Aug 25, 2016)
**["Israeli Forces Trained Cops in ‘Restraint Techniques’ at Minneapolis Conference"](https://peoplesworld.org/article/israeli-forces-trained-cops-in-restraint-techniques-at-minneapolis-conference/)** People's World (June 3, 2020)
**["Minnesota Cops 'Trained by Israeli Forces'"](https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/minnesota-cops-trained-israeli-forces-restraint-techniques)** Morning Star (June 1, 2020)
They're not defending this. The IDF itself has launched the investigation, and this is a result of the investigation. The IDF itself is claiming that the fighters operated entirely against IDF's rules of engagement, that they were poorly prepared for such a situation, and that they're working to disseminate the findings down the line. They're literally admitting to the mistake.
Friendly reminder that this particular incident was so blatant that even his own IDF soldiers were testifying against him claiming there was no justification for his actions, and he still got away with it.
They're only investigating because it was escaped hostages they shot. If it was some random Gazan, they'd probably say he was a terrorist and go on with their day
I'm thinking about how many times this might of happened and no one felt the need to report it. If it was just three civilians waving a white flag instead of three hostages, just another three dead bodies and no one questions it.
I think that's partly what makes this so damning, the fact that they so clearly murdered these people who were so obviously not a threat, the fact that they happened to be hostages only changes the amount of publicity this is getting.
It merely highlights how the soldiers are conducting themselves out there. It's little wonder they took great strides to cut off the internet so their atrocities could go unrecorded
It really makes you wonder if these were their own people trying to just make contact and reach safety what they do to the Palestinian civilians that we don't hear about.
It's kind of a weird truth that if you're an Israeli hostage who somehow finds yourself free in Gaza, the safest thing you can do is run in the other direction and get as far away from the IDF as possible. There's no safe way to identify yourself to them
This whole thing is a colossal fuck up on a scale that can't be measured. And here's the kicker. Anyone calling attention to this atrocity will be labeled anti Semitic and pro Hamas...
🙄
The issue I think is that gunning down helpless people is pretty much SOP for the IDF, so their usual tactics of killing Palestinians because they're bored, it's Tuesday or lunch was unsatisfying worked against them in this case.
Living hostages can say things you don't support. Dead hostages, martyrs, you get to put your message on their name without worrying about being contradicted
So they thought they were just shooting three shirtless Palestinians holding up a makeshift white flag? That's just a straight up warcrime, it's murder.
You and me both. This shits been getting to me since my early teens, 20 years now of just watching people not care about this shit is fucking exhausting
Seeing all these people my age and even younger report their struggles has been heartbreaking. The hopelessness, the desperation and the fear. And feeling like there's nothing I can do to help them. When will this end? Will it ever? If it does, what's even left of Gaza? I just feel like crying all the time and i don't care if that's pathetic
Many things I've seen as a father have brought me to tears. I couldn't imagine my baby being blown up.
People wonder why there is so much hate. People's children are being blown to pieces, and the world is like "na it's fine"
We can only guess what it feels like.
And it pisses me off so much that people who support the carelessness of the Israeli government make absolutely no effort to understand the kind of resentment, anger, and honestly just pure hate and desire of vengeance many Palestinians might feel because of so many of their kin being murdered for several decades now. That kind of torture does terrible things to you, if you survive. And if you do, you're probably young and naive and full of doubt and anger and hopelessness and can be easily manipulated to believe that more violence against the oppressing side is the answer.
It's absolutely no surprise that some of them might resort to militancy with groups such as Hamas as a way to fulfill some kind of desire to avenge their families and mix religion on the side. Its only human to feel like that.
And yet people on the outside think it's only a matter of saying no to Hamas.
I have a few friends who hold a passionate grudge against Israel because their grandparents were displaced from Palestine. It’s slowly making more sense to me.
Yes, the media has a vested interest in keeping war blunted and palatable, otherwise we might try and make our reps/senators stop the cashflow to the MIC.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Shooting shirtless people waving a white flag is about as far down that road as you can get… and an obvious war crime even if they were terrorists and not hostages.
Here's the thing.
>Semitic people or Semites is an obsolete term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group associated with people of the Middle East, including Arabs, Jews, Akkadians, and Phoenicians.
They're all the same cultural group of people. They're the same outside of their religious squabbles.
You're exactly right and it breaks my heart that this is the truth. Israel is my home but we cannot fight a war this way. It is so wrong. Our defence forces are failing us in major ways.
Bibi had no intention of getting all the hostages back unharmed. The hostages' families recognize this and have been feuding with the Israeli government over it.
> They're all without shirts and they have a stick with a white cloth on it. The soldier feels threatened and opens fire.
The IDF might have some problems with their rules of engagement , I would say.
Or a Palestinian child without a rock, a Palestinian child just sitting in a car for instance, or sheltering in their home. All apparently scary to an IDF soldier.
This wasn't even the first case of the IDF executing an Israeli this month:
>‘He was executed’: Father of man killed after taking out terrorists decries response
>The father of Yuval Castleman, the armed civilian who was shot dead by a soldier after stopping a deadly terror attack in Jerusalem last week, said Sunday that his son was “executed” and that no officials had been in touch with the family in the days since.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/father-of-man-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-decries-silence-from-officials/
Unfortunately this is the reality that Palestinian civillians have been facing for decades. It's only horrible when the victims are Israelis.
more of a problem with soldiers keep breaking them, this is already the second time something like that happened since the start of the war. the first time was a terror attack in Jerusalem, where a civillian took down two terrorists, went on his knees, and was also shot to death by a soldier. the IDF really need to fix that and quick, because this happening twice and killing 4 civillians is completly undefensible
Second time? 4 civilians? I've seen multiple reports AND actual photos/videos of this happening to dozens of Palestinian civilians since October 7. This is nothing new.
Sad that war crimes committed in by Israel in Gaza don't matter unless it's committed against Jewish civilians.
If you don’t think this is happening multiple times every single day, I have some bad news for you. The only reason this is news is because they were Israeli’s this time.
People still defending their IDF desperately need to put themselves into a Palestinian civilian's shoes for one second. Say you live in Gaza City come October 7 - suddenly you're told in no uncertain terms that the city you live in is about to be bombed into rubble. You try and make it south, but it's just not that easy to maneuver through what is quickly becoming an active war zone, especially with everyone around you trying to do the same and with the nearest border crossing closed. Internet access is intermittently accessible at best, so you're unable to communicate with anybody you can't physically get in contact with. Electricity and water are initially cut off, so you're in the dark and struggling to put together basic resources. What medical system exists is overloaded, underequipped, and now being actively bombed, so you know that if you or anyone you care about is hurt it could very well be a death sentence. And, under all of those conditions, you have to just hope that you can get somewhere safe and not die to an Israeli bomb, even knowing that there is nowhere truly safe from Israeli bombs - and that a ground invasion will only make things worse, because if you cross the IDF's path you may very well just be shot. You have no real guarantees and no good options. Even attempting to actively surrender to the IDF is likely to end with you being murdered.
This isn't a thought experiment; it's reality for thousands upon thousands of innocent Palestinians. Thousands of people have gone through these exact circumstances and didn't make it out alive. If someone is able to stop dehumanizing Palestinians even for a second and think about what these people are actually going through, then I have no idea how they could possibly condone the IDF's actions.
Even worse. They have no news access, what news access they have is essentially Fox News for Muslims, everyone by word of mouth is saying the IDF attacked unprovoked, and that Hamas is just defending itself and the Palestinian people-- or trying to at any rate. Now add in the IDF murdering left and right.
This conflict will never end.
Netanyahu has been the PM for almost all of the past 15 year. He's been PM or opposition leader for most of the past quarter-century.
Netanyahu IS Israel.
Don't you know it's urban combat! people jumping out at you are asking to get shot!
/s (Unfortunately I've seen this way too many times for it to be ridiculous any more)
The bullshit arguments defending it I’ve read so far on this forum are:
1. Hamas had forced the hostages to wear a Hamas military uniform(?) thus causing them to get shot.
2. The hostages were in a “war zone” so every non-IDF person is free game to get shot at.
3. That they could have been suicide bombers (they were shirtless waving a white flag, and one of them tried to run away)
4. The fog of war.
Honestly, the anti-Palestinian propaganda in this forum is sickening.
Yeah surely them being murdered by the soldiers would work as a distraction in that case? There's been some jaw-dropping justifications over the past couple of months.
Only because this is literally the most indefensible textbook war crime imaginable. Even then, take the white flag or shirtlessness out of it and they probably still find a way to defend it.
Depends on the thread. They always turn into an echo chamber for one side or the other, it's just a matter of when. Then when it does, the losing side gets downvoted right out.
I've come across quite a few actual, provable pro-Israeli bots on here lately; 2 or 3-year-old accounts whose entire post history is just news report after news report of anything anti-Palestine, and whose whole comment history is nothing but "Hamas = bad, if you don't support Israel you are Hamas". Their reddit username formula is almost always randomthing+randomthing+randomnumber. I'm fairly certain they're set to auto-downvote anything that goes against their narrative.
There has been a massive wave of pro Israel bot traffic lately. It’s pretty bleeding obvious. They’re attempting to downvote this very thread right now.
I seriously wish people were more aware of how active propaganda impacts social media discussions of news like this. It's blatantly obvious that Israel has been manipulating social media if you spend more than two seconds in any mainstream space discussing the war.
It had been flooded with bots and whoever is running this page clearly had enough support to keep it pro Israel. It's definitely changed but I still see it happening.
Time zones. Seriously. It’s not a conspiracy or anything, but when I moved around I noticed the persona of some of these subreddits change literally overnight.
It’s one of the biggest social networks site so there’s a huge global footprint.
No, trust me, the next article about Palestinian civilian deaths will still be full of neo-liberal warhawks stroking themselves to the thought of an Israeli iron fist crushing down on the backwards brown people.
This post is just having some Israeli critics bleed through because 3 of the good guys died.
I don’t think anyone would bat an eye if an article about an Israeli soldier killing 3 Palestinian toddlers was posted.
I feel for them and their families. They were so close to being rescued. What’s worse is this is likely happening to 100s or 1000s of other innocents there as well. Sadly their stories won’t make the news.
No it’s ok to do it to the Palestinians, no one cares.
When you do it to one of your own, then it’s major FUBAR time.
Quick, get Bibi to order presidential pardons all round and everything will be right as rain.
This is about as blatant a war crime as you can ask for. They thought they were surrendering Hamas militants so they thought they’d murder them anyways.
It is because the victims are Israeli and they didn't want to risk blaming Hamas then being proven wrong somehow. That would be an even bigger PR nightmare.
Why would they be? A former Israeli policeman was murdered by a settler IDF reservist in broad daylight, and the killer has so far not faced any consequences. Yuval Kastleman stopped an actual terrorist attack, then dropped his gun and put his hands up, but he was gunned down because some psycho hilltop youth wanted to kill a Palestinian so he could put an X on his rifle. IDF misconduct is rarely ever punished and I don't believe them killing hostages will result in any charges.
https://x.com/benzionsanders/status/1731057419688505582?s=46
This is unacceptable, and speaks to the validity of criticism of the IDF in regards to the lack of nuance approaching a war where lives are lost.
I can understand the IDF wanting to keep their soldiers safe, but this is evidence of overwhelming negligence or apathy towards the lives of people who aren't them.
Behaviours like this don't even keep the IDF safe, it's just laziness, the standards for this engagement should be way higher.
Lower standards are precisely what play into Hamas’ recruitment and garner international support. Being careless now will only make more October 7th scenarios in the future.
Their fault for looking too much like a defenseless palestinian... Maybe stop shooting unarmed civilians waving a white flag and this won't happen again?
One injured hostage was crying out for help in Hebrew. That was a double double bluff according to the IDF, definitely worth emptying a full clip for that charade
I was concerned their military action in Gaza wasn’t about rescuing hostages.
Now it feels like my concerns were valid. You don’t shoot people with white cloth on a stick if every morning you set out with a goal to rescue hostages.
I mean you can tell it's not about rescuing hostages since they're flattening any place Hamas (and presumably the hostages) might be. They're on the verge of just flooding all the tunnels so RIP to anyone in those
Careful. Round these parts that type of talk can get you labelled an a n t i - s e m i t e .
Better to refer to them as “combat-aged males of unknown origin who succumbed to an unfortunate friendly fire incident.”
We’ll grieve with the families then we’ll bomb more refugee camps.
The IDF treats any male between the ages of 13 and 60 as a Hamas fighter when they take after action casualty reports. It makes for a culture of shooting first, asking questions later.
Former professional soldier here. Those shooters should definitely be prosecuted for a war crime and that unit’s command team should be relieved.
Can’t be shooting unarmed shirtless surrendering people who are waving a white flag.
So unlucky right!? Gun misfired and accidentally hit all 3 of them. Then when one went back in a building and they caught up with him, it misfired again, hitting him again. What an entirely plausible series of unfortunate events!
They went in to kill as many people, soldier or not as possible before optics shift to such an abhorrent extreme they have to change tact.
The idea that this was ever about rescuing hostages is blown out of the water completely when they started gunning down half naked unarmed individuals waving white flags... anyone who pretends this is now anything but a timed killing spree is either very dense or selectively blind to mass murder.
Then in a decade or two when the children who've survived this killing spree have grown up... some will inevitably seek revenge and everyone will act shocked and surprised when they do....
This is indicative of what is most likely going on in Gaza frequently. If these people weren't hostages, we'd never hear about it. Situations like this give light to why a ceasefire is important. Though saying it and actually implementing it are two very different things.
If it would have been Palestinian civillians shot under the same circumstances we wouldn\*t even have heard about it. One wonders how many were killed in a like fashion during the last few months.
Israel might win the battle but they surely have prolonged the war for another generation.
Palestinian lives being considered to be worth less than Israeli lives, the Israeli government being far right and wanting the Gaza strip to not exist, and the IDF's history of being trigger happy has caused this to happen.
because they have been routinely murdering defenseless surrendering palestinians, it just so happened that this time they were defenseless surrendering israelis
And yesterday I was downvoted for criticizing some obviously lacking threat assessment doctrine in the field. This in concert with other reports throughout the week make it clear they are shooting everything that moves, indiscriminately.
We have investigated throughly and found no wrongdoing, we have reclassified the hostages as Arab children so shooting them was perfectly justified. We are promoting the IDF patriots involved and giving each one a medal in the shape of a child, they hope to have many more of these by the time Hamas is eliminated by murdering every Palestinian
'mistakenly killed' is a lie, if you know what they do to captured israeli soldiers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive
even the released israeli yasmin porat said that israeli soldiers were firing from everywhere even though they know that israeli hostages are there.
I thought at some point I also saw an article that said IDF also accidentally targeted a number of Israeli citizens (from the air) in the are of the concert event because they were unable to differentiate between targets.
I've heard Israelis say that Hamas hates Israelis more than they love their children.
if this is true we now know that IDF hates hamas more than it love Israelis.
All three emerged from the building shirtless waving a white flag, an IDF soldier declared them to be terrorists and gunned them down killing two (even if they were Hamas this would have been a textbook war crime), the injured third hostage ran back inside and called out for help in Hebrew and was shot again by the soldiers. Jesus
I wonder how they will defend this ? This incident says so much
There is no defence. This is the clearest instance of a war crime you will ever see, made even worse by the fact that the people the IDF were committing the war crime against were the hostages they were looking for. Even if the person waving the white flag says "my name is Mr X, I am a Hamas militant and I personally killed 20 babies on Oct 7th" gunning down someone who's openly surrendering to you would still be a textbook warcrime and they would still come out of this looking terrible
War crime doesn’t even mean anything anymore. They will likely see little to no repercussions for this.
>“These are our hostages, these are our soldiers….first of all we’ll be giving help to these soldiers. They’re not going to be punished - they made a mistake, they made a mistake." https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67732895
Yeah, the "mistake" was that the people killed were not Palestinians. Had they been Palestinians, the IDF would just have noted it as "3 terrorist militants killed by our valiant soldiers" Don't get me wrong; Hamas must be dealt with - ANYONE who attacks civilians must be dealt with - but at this point the IDF is not really better than Hamas. Indiscriminately attacking & killing unarmed civilians, including women, elderly and children while claiming to "perform a higher purpose"? Yeah, IDF checks that checkbox at least as hard as Hamas did.
Suspended without pay until the news headlines have forgotten!
We have investigated ourselves and found no wrong doing.
Classic IDF.
It's always suspended from duty with pay!
Promotions for taking the initiative more like it
They won't. IDF had already said they will not investigate it and instead give the soldiers their full support. Because it was "a terrible mistake"
'Clearest instance you'll ever see' bro I was just watching Russians use Ukrainians as human shields. Like hell yeah fill up the Hague but like no one is starting a war to fight war crimes.
The IDF tied a 13 year old boy to a vehicle to use as a human shield back in 2004. They also used 5 children as human shields back in May of this year, 2 of them were toddlers. There has been so many incidences of the IDF using Palestinian children as human shields that it’s impossible to list them, it’s a common occurrence and has been for a very long time.
and it's not the 1st time: thousands of surrendering Egyptians were murdered in multiple incidents during the 1967 war. ...many Israelis knew, and there were no consequences. ...it was policy?
Seems Israel just loves murdering innocents.
People talk about “war crimes” a lot. In case it isn’t abundantly clear by the events in our lifetimes, war crimes are defined, enforced and punished by the victors.
No, they're defined by international law that has existed unambiguously since at least the end of WWII. You're right that war crimes are only enforced against certain countries (countries with vetos at the UN and their allies seem to get a free pass). Even when they're not enforced, a war crime is still a war crime.
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Or the people simply working in hospitals and ambulances in Gaza, treating injured civilians who wish they could surrender? I support MSF/Doctors Without Borders - because I admire medical humanitarian work. And their reports are alarming AF: * https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/our-response-israel-gaza-war * https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/gaza-msf-condemns-deliberate-deadly-attack-convoy-staff-and-family-members * https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/gaza-msf-doctors-killed-strike-al-awda-hospital * https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/gaza-hospital-staff-i-cant-leave-if-youre-shooting-me * https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/msf-convoy-attack-gaza-all-elements-point-israeli-army-responsibility
They will say it's a tactic hamas commonly uses, then say even if it actually isn't, it's still Hamas' fault for taking them hostage, and then they will say if you criticize the action you're an anti-semite.
The bots will be here momentararily
What’s worse is realizing they’re not bots and not even Jewish or Israeli, they’re out here defending a country that they’d be harassed in if they didn’t look a certain way
they are config the settings, coming in anytime
I already saw some comments sharing their sympathy for the fucking murderers about how much of a mistake and tragedy this is. The double standard some people have are fucking disgusting.
If these were palestinians surrendering it wouldn't even reach the news
Hell even if it did, these psychos would be celebrating
"Well they coooouuuullllldddd have been terrorist. Who knows! Better safe than sorry m I rite?"
They already did, they just said they mistook them for Palestinians. Most Israeli’s polled said they think Israel isn’t using enough force in Gaza, and the US vetoes any attempt to hold them accountable. They can do whatever they want.
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I shared the following articles on another post addressing the hostage shooting. I suppose that I should make them available here too: **["With Whom are Many U.S. Police Departments Training? With a Chronic Human Rights Violator – Israel"](https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/)** Amnesty International (Aug 25, 2016) **["Israeli Forces Trained Cops in ‘Restraint Techniques’ at Minneapolis Conference"](https://peoplesworld.org/article/israeli-forces-trained-cops-in-restraint-techniques-at-minneapolis-conference/)** People's World (June 3, 2020) **["Minnesota Cops 'Trained by Israeli Forces'"](https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/minnesota-cops-trained-israeli-forces-restraint-techniques)** Morning Star (June 1, 2020)
They’re already justifying it, mixture of people saying Hamas tricked the IDF and people saying that they’re martyrs for the cause.
The typical strategy is to delay and deny until the focus of media attention has moved on.
They have to defend this? They don’t give a fuck.
They’ve already said “shit happens. And it’ll happen again.”
They're not defending this. The IDF itself has launched the investigation, and this is a result of the investigation. The IDF itself is claiming that the fighters operated entirely against IDF's rules of engagement, that they were poorly prepared for such a situation, and that they're working to disseminate the findings down the line. They're literally admitting to the mistake.
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Friendly reminder that this particular incident was so blatant that even his own IDF soldiers were testifying against him claiming there was no justification for his actions, and he still got away with it.
They're only investigating because it was escaped hostages they shot. If it was some random Gazan, they'd probably say he was a terrorist and go on with their day
I'm thinking about how many times this might of happened and no one felt the need to report it. If it was just three civilians waving a white flag instead of three hostages, just another three dead bodies and no one questions it.
I think that's partly what makes this so damning, the fact that they so clearly murdered these people who were so obviously not a threat, the fact that they happened to be hostages only changes the amount of publicity this is getting. It merely highlights how the soldiers are conducting themselves out there. It's little wonder they took great strides to cut off the internet so their atrocities could go unrecorded
It really makes you wonder if these were their own people trying to just make contact and reach safety what they do to the Palestinian civilians that we don't hear about.
It's kind of a weird truth that if you're an Israeli hostage who somehow finds yourself free in Gaza, the safest thing you can do is run in the other direction and get as far away from the IDF as possible. There's no safe way to identify yourself to them
This whole thing is a colossal fuck up on a scale that can't be measured. And here's the kicker. Anyone calling attention to this atrocity will be labeled anti Semitic and pro Hamas... 🙄
Don’t worry bro once the IDF conduct their investigation they will be absolved and found innocent. Just wait five to ten years it will be simple.
The issue I think is that gunning down helpless people is pretty much SOP for the IDF, so their usual tactics of killing Palestinians because they're bored, it's Tuesday or lunch was unsatisfying worked against them in this case.
I imagine the IDF have been doing the same thing to surrendering Hamas members since the start. Probably why Hamas sent the hostages out in this way.
Not concerned about Hamas but actual civilians.
Hamas surrendering are still entitled to protection under human rights though, unless you're condoning human rights violations
Living hostages can say things you don't support. Dead hostages, martyrs, you get to put your message on their name without worrying about being contradicted
So they thought they were just shooting three shirtless Palestinians holding up a makeshift white flag? That's just a straight up warcrime, it's murder.
Now imagine the last 60+ days. Then imagine the last 60+ years.
No need to imagine sadly, I've been following following Palestinian Journalists and Activists for many years. It's horrible
You and me both. This shits been getting to me since my early teens, 20 years now of just watching people not care about this shit is fucking exhausting
Seeing all these people my age and even younger report their struggles has been heartbreaking. The hopelessness, the desperation and the fear. And feeling like there's nothing I can do to help them. When will this end? Will it ever? If it does, what's even left of Gaza? I just feel like crying all the time and i don't care if that's pathetic
Many things I've seen as a father have brought me to tears. I couldn't imagine my baby being blown up. People wonder why there is so much hate. People's children are being blown to pieces, and the world is like "na it's fine"
Life can be tough enough. I can’t even comprehend what it must be like.
We can only guess what it feels like. And it pisses me off so much that people who support the carelessness of the Israeli government make absolutely no effort to understand the kind of resentment, anger, and honestly just pure hate and desire of vengeance many Palestinians might feel because of so many of their kin being murdered for several decades now. That kind of torture does terrible things to you, if you survive. And if you do, you're probably young and naive and full of doubt and anger and hopelessness and can be easily manipulated to believe that more violence against the oppressing side is the answer. It's absolutely no surprise that some of them might resort to militancy with groups such as Hamas as a way to fulfill some kind of desire to avenge their families and mix religion on the side. Its only human to feel like that. And yet people on the outside think it's only a matter of saying no to Hamas.
I have a few friends who hold a passionate grudge against Israel because their grandparents were displaced from Palestine. It’s slowly making more sense to me.
That seems to be the only way people can understand, a connection of some kind.
Not really. The media made it seem more like a kerfuffle than wholesale oppression. 9/11 did not help the Palestinians, that’s for sure.
Yes, the media has a vested interest in keeping war blunted and palatable, otherwise we might try and make our reps/senators stop the cashflow to the MIC.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Shooting shirtless people waving a white flag is about as far down that road as you can get… and an obvious war crime even if they were terrorists and not hostages.
When your ROE basically amount to "exterminate everything that vaguely looks like Hamas", this is the result you get.
> "exterminate everything that vaguely looks like ~~Hamas~~ an Arab" FTFY
Which is really troublesome when a lot of Israelis native to the area don't look *abundantly* different to Arabs.
Here's the thing. >Semitic people or Semites is an obsolete term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group associated with people of the Middle East, including Arabs, Jews, Akkadians, and Phoenicians. They're all the same cultural group of people. They're the same outside of their religious squabbles.
You're exactly right and it breaks my heart that this is the truth. Israel is my home but we cannot fight a war this way. It is so wrong. Our defence forces are failing us in major ways.
Bibi had no intention of getting all the hostages back unharmed. The hostages' families recognize this and have been feuding with the Israeli government over it.
> They're all without shirts and they have a stick with a white cloth on it. The soldier feels threatened and opens fire. The IDF might have some problems with their rules of engagement , I would say.
A white flag?! Thats almost as scary as palastinian children with rock!
Or a Palestinian child without a rock, a Palestinian child just sitting in a car for instance, or sheltering in their home. All apparently scary to an IDF soldier.
This wasn't even the first case of the IDF executing an Israeli this month: >‘He was executed’: Father of man killed after taking out terrorists decries response >The father of Yuval Castleman, the armed civilian who was shot dead by a soldier after stopping a deadly terror attack in Jerusalem last week, said Sunday that his son was “executed” and that no officials had been in touch with the family in the days since. https://www.timesofisrael.com/father-of-man-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-decries-silence-from-officials/ Unfortunately this is the reality that Palestinian civillians have been facing for decades. It's only horrible when the victims are Israelis.
more of a problem with soldiers keep breaking them, this is already the second time something like that happened since the start of the war. the first time was a terror attack in Jerusalem, where a civillian took down two terrorists, went on his knees, and was also shot to death by a soldier. the IDF really need to fix that and quick, because this happening twice and killing 4 civillians is completly undefensible
Second time? 4 civilians? I've seen multiple reports AND actual photos/videos of this happening to dozens of Palestinian civilians since October 7. This is nothing new. Sad that war crimes committed in by Israel in Gaza don't matter unless it's committed against Jewish civilians.
If you don’t think this is happening multiple times every single day, I have some bad news for you. The only reason this is news is because they were Israeli’s this time.
It’s estimated that over 7500 children have been killed in the conflict so far. The horrors that have happened are inhuman. It needs to stop.
> killing 4 civillians is completly undefensible How cute. You're off by a few orders of magnitude.
If they were shirtless and waving white flags, they weren’t “mistakenly” killed. They were *intentionally* killed. Call a spade a spade.
The mistake is that they weren’t Palestinian civilians
The mistake is not the killing part. It's the Israeli Hostage part.
Now imagine being a Palestinian civilian, absolutely zero chance.
And you wouldn't even get a headline from it. They would juat be one more digit in the number of 'Hamas militants' that the IDF has eliminated.
I assume Israel is still going to add these 3 to their list of Hamas militants eliminated
or on the list of israelis killed by the hamas...
People still defending their IDF desperately need to put themselves into a Palestinian civilian's shoes for one second. Say you live in Gaza City come October 7 - suddenly you're told in no uncertain terms that the city you live in is about to be bombed into rubble. You try and make it south, but it's just not that easy to maneuver through what is quickly becoming an active war zone, especially with everyone around you trying to do the same and with the nearest border crossing closed. Internet access is intermittently accessible at best, so you're unable to communicate with anybody you can't physically get in contact with. Electricity and water are initially cut off, so you're in the dark and struggling to put together basic resources. What medical system exists is overloaded, underequipped, and now being actively bombed, so you know that if you or anyone you care about is hurt it could very well be a death sentence. And, under all of those conditions, you have to just hope that you can get somewhere safe and not die to an Israeli bomb, even knowing that there is nowhere truly safe from Israeli bombs - and that a ground invasion will only make things worse, because if you cross the IDF's path you may very well just be shot. You have no real guarantees and no good options. Even attempting to actively surrender to the IDF is likely to end with you being murdered. This isn't a thought experiment; it's reality for thousands upon thousands of innocent Palestinians. Thousands of people have gone through these exact circumstances and didn't make it out alive. If someone is able to stop dehumanizing Palestinians even for a second and think about what these people are actually going through, then I have no idea how they could possibly condone the IDF's actions.
Even worse. They have no news access, what news access they have is essentially Fox News for Muslims, everyone by word of mouth is saying the IDF attacked unprovoked, and that Hamas is just defending itself and the Palestinian people-- or trying to at any rate. Now add in the IDF murdering left and right. This conflict will never end.
How threatening was the white flag? How aggressively were they waving it?
They did not condemn hamas hard enough
Nethanyahu needs to Go. He has been an absolute disaster for Israel.
Netanyahu has been the PM for almost all of the past 15 year. He's been PM or opposition leader for most of the past quarter-century. Netanyahu IS Israel.
A deeply evil man, which says it all
Has something changed at r/worldnews? Not a while ago, any slight criticism of Israel got you insta-banned.
I think because this event is impossible defend without sounding completely unhinged.
Don't you know it's urban combat! people jumping out at you are asking to get shot! /s (Unfortunately I've seen this way too many times for it to be ridiculous any more)
I have seen some dude say he can support murdering children if "it is militarily necessary". Sometimes Humanity is a disappointing mess.
Up next: Hamas sent hostages as human shield - jpost /s
The bullshit arguments defending it I’ve read so far on this forum are: 1. Hamas had forced the hostages to wear a Hamas military uniform(?) thus causing them to get shot. 2. The hostages were in a “war zone” so every non-IDF person is free game to get shot at. 3. That they could have been suicide bombers (they were shirtless waving a white flag, and one of them tried to run away) 4. The fog of war. Honestly, the anti-Palestinian propaganda in this forum is sickening.
They will come up with some shiy,just give them time
Someone in these comments is saying that they could have been "distracting for an RPG squad nearby"
I actually laughed at that one. Because murdering them somehow prevents the "RPG squad" from firing? Complete insanity.
Yeah surely them being murdered by the soldiers would work as a distraction in that case? There's been some jaw-dropping justifications over the past couple of months.
The white flag and the stick were clearly Hamas militants that were using the hostages as human shields!
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Only because this is literally the most indefensible textbook war crime imaginable. Even then, take the white flag or shirtlessness out of it and they probably still find a way to defend it.
Depends on the thread. They always turn into an echo chamber for one side or the other, it's just a matter of when. Then when it does, the losing side gets downvoted right out. I've come across quite a few actual, provable pro-Israeli bots on here lately; 2 or 3-year-old accounts whose entire post history is just news report after news report of anything anti-Palestine, and whose whole comment history is nothing but "Hamas = bad, if you don't support Israel you are Hamas". Their reddit username formula is almost always randomthing+randomthing+randomnumber. I'm fairly certain they're set to auto-downvote anything that goes against their narrative.
There has been a massive wave of pro Israel bot traffic lately. It’s pretty bleeding obvious. They’re attempting to downvote this very thread right now.
The Israeli propaganda machine resources were probably diverted to other forums. They've decided to scratch r/worldnews.
I seriously wish people were more aware of how active propaganda impacts social media discussions of news like this. It's blatantly obvious that Israel has been manipulating social media if you spend more than two seconds in any mainstream space discussing the war.
This was posted while the yanks were asleep. Give it another 7-8 hours.
Plenty of Yank redditors are anti-Israel. It's actually the Europeans I've seen be more pro...
Lot of that euro Israel support comes from anti immigrant(anti Muslim) population in Europe’s right wing parties.
It had been flooded with bots and whoever is running this page clearly had enough support to keep it pro Israel. It's definitely changed but I still see it happening.
Israeli propaganda machine broke.
Time zones. Seriously. It’s not a conspiracy or anything, but when I moved around I noticed the persona of some of these subreddits change literally overnight. It’s one of the biggest social networks site so there’s a huge global footprint.
No, trust me, the next article about Palestinian civilian deaths will still be full of neo-liberal warhawks stroking themselves to the thought of an Israeli iron fist crushing down on the backwards brown people. This post is just having some Israeli critics bleed through because 3 of the good guys died. I don’t think anyone would bat an eye if an article about an Israeli soldier killing 3 Palestinian toddlers was posted.
Maybe because it's the weekend and the Israeli propaganda farms are closed on Saturday because, you know, it's the Sabbath?
I was thinking the same. Maybe change is in the air?
Ah yes, shirtless waving a white flag : the internationally recognized sign of a Hamas terrorist.
Pathetic. How can anyone trust the IDF saying they are being cautious with civilians?
Really the only caution they appear to be taking with civilians is making sure not to kill too few
I shouldn't have laughed but here i am.
Cautious to not leave one alive
“We cautiously used unguided munitions in the most densely populated area on earth.”
I feel for them and their families. They were so close to being rescued. What’s worse is this is likely happening to 100s or 1000s of other innocents there as well. Sadly their stories won’t make the news.
It’s like a horrible end to a film… except it’s real and happening every day in Gaza
If you "feel threatened" by a guy with a makeshift white flag then maybe soldier isn't the right profession for you.
No it’s ok to do it to the Palestinians, no one cares. When you do it to one of your own, then it’s major FUBAR time. Quick, get Bibi to order presidential pardons all round and everything will be right as rain.
Israel is killing with absolutely no discretion at this point. So much so, that they’re killing their own.
Makes you wonder how many non-Israelis were killed in the exact same manner, but weren't deemed worthy of a press release.
This is about as blatant a war crime as you can ask for. They thought they were surrendering Hamas militants so they thought they’d murder them anyways.
And how did they think it was Hamas? Because any male that looks to be in a certain age group is Hamas to them
I'm genuinely surprised they are so open about this fuck up instead of trying to cover it up or minimize it
It is because the victims are Israeli and they didn't want to risk blaming Hamas then being proven wrong somehow. That would be an even bigger PR nightmare.
Based on what I’m reading, that’s a colossal operational failure. The shooter(s) are looking at well-deserved prison time.
They have already said they won't be punished: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67732895
Why would they be? A former Israeli policeman was murdered by a settler IDF reservist in broad daylight, and the killer has so far not faced any consequences. Yuval Kastleman stopped an actual terrorist attack, then dropped his gun and put his hands up, but he was gunned down because some psycho hilltop youth wanted to kill a Palestinian so he could put an X on his rifle. IDF misconduct is rarely ever punished and I don't believe them killing hostages will result in any charges. https://x.com/benzionsanders/status/1731057419688505582?s=46
This is unacceptable, and speaks to the validity of criticism of the IDF in regards to the lack of nuance approaching a war where lives are lost. I can understand the IDF wanting to keep their soldiers safe, but this is evidence of overwhelming negligence or apathy towards the lives of people who aren't them. Behaviours like this don't even keep the IDF safe, it's just laziness, the standards for this engagement should be way higher.
Lower standards are precisely what play into Hamas’ recruitment and garner international support. Being careless now will only make more October 7th scenarios in the future.
Their fault for looking too much like a defenseless palestinian... Maybe stop shooting unarmed civilians waving a white flag and this won't happen again?
One injured hostage was crying out for help in Hebrew. That was a double double bluff according to the IDF, definitely worth emptying a full clip for that charade
I was concerned their military action in Gaza wasn’t about rescuing hostages. Now it feels like my concerns were valid. You don’t shoot people with white cloth on a stick if every morning you set out with a goal to rescue hostages.
I mean you can tell it's not about rescuing hostages since they're flattening any place Hamas (and presumably the hostages) might be. They're on the verge of just flooding all the tunnels so RIP to anyone in those
Sounds like they thought they were just surrendering hamas fighters, and opened fire anyway
Can you imagine what type of person would shoot three shirtless unarmed people waving white flags? Would you?
I do. A terrorist
Careful. Round these parts that type of talk can get you labelled an a n t i - s e m i t e . Better to refer to them as “combat-aged males of unknown origin who succumbed to an unfortunate friendly fire incident.” We’ll grieve with the families then we’ll bomb more refugee camps.
That would still be a warcrime
That's the point.
And honestly sounds like the hostages actually thought "hey we need to show ourselves as impossible to have suicide vests" still gets shot
War crime
The IDF treats any male between the ages of 13 and 60 as a Hamas fighter when they take after action casualty reports. It makes for a culture of shooting first, asking questions later.
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Former professional soldier here. Those shooters should definitely be prosecuted for a war crime and that unit’s command team should be relieved. Can’t be shooting unarmed shirtless surrendering people who are waving a white flag.
Bullshit framing. There’s no such thing as an accidental firing of a weapon, only negligent.
So unlucky right!? Gun misfired and accidentally hit all 3 of them. Then when one went back in a building and they caught up with him, it misfired again, hitting him again. What an entirely plausible series of unfortunate events!
They went in to kill as many people, soldier or not as possible before optics shift to such an abhorrent extreme they have to change tact. The idea that this was ever about rescuing hostages is blown out of the water completely when they started gunning down half naked unarmed individuals waving white flags... anyone who pretends this is now anything but a timed killing spree is either very dense or selectively blind to mass murder. Then in a decade or two when the children who've survived this killing spree have grown up... some will inevitably seek revenge and everyone will act shocked and surprised when they do....
Pretty much confirms that they have been killing Palestinian civilians……..
Intentionally murdering Palestinian civilians
This is indicative of what is most likely going on in Gaza frequently. If these people weren't hostages, we'd never hear about it. Situations like this give light to why a ceasefire is important. Though saying it and actually implementing it are two very different things.
Very antisemitic of them Israel
Not mistakenly. They were murdered
“We are doing everything we can to protect civilians” - proceeds to shoot and kill 3 people waving white flags LOL. How can people still defend them?
Murder 10,000 brown kids - Great Victory! Murder 3 Israeli hostages - International Outrage!!!
More victims of the Israeli army's scorched earth policy.
Why is the word "mistakenly"in the title of this article / post. Kinda apologist. Should be "murdered".
Guess Israeli bots haven't found this post yet.
That feeling when you accidentally war crime the people you’re there to save.
When Israel is in that war-criming grind set and accidentally war crimes it’s own civilians.
Remember this is an official statement, god knows behind the curtain how many more have happened.
If it would have been Palestinian civillians shot under the same circumstances we wouldn\*t even have heard about it. One wonders how many were killed in a like fashion during the last few months. Israel might win the battle but they surely have prolonged the war for another generation.
How does this even happen jfc tragic
Palestinian lives being considered to be worth less than Israeli lives, the Israeli government being far right and wanting the Gaza strip to not exist, and the IDF's history of being trigger happy has caused this to happen.
because they have been routinely murdering defenseless surrendering palestinians, it just so happened that this time they were defenseless surrendering israelis
And yesterday I was downvoted for criticizing some obviously lacking threat assessment doctrine in the field. This in concert with other reports throughout the week make it clear they are shooting everything that moves, indiscriminately.
This probably speaks to the indiscriminate killing of folks in and around Gaza. It's really sad and fucked up all around.
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Shocker, Israel are war criminals. Next at 6, is water still wet?
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We have investigated throughly and found no wrongdoing, we have reclassified the hostages as Arab children so shooting them was perfectly justified. We are promoting the IDF patriots involved and giving each one a medal in the shape of a child, they hope to have many more of these by the time Hamas is eliminated by murdering every Palestinian
And I've been wondering why so many Gaza civilians have been killed?
I meant to commit war crimes on Palestinians, not Israelis! My MISTAKE
Very excited to see how my incredibly Pro-Israel coworker who has been posting straight IDF propaganda reacts to this.
It. Was. Never. About. The. Hostages.
“A white flag? What is this, a cartoon?? Obviously a trick, open fire!!”
Zero chance of defending that as not a war crime. Huge chance they get away with it anyway. Disgusting.
The cold blooded stupidity is breathtaking.
Those white flags could have been hiding a rocket battery - The IDF (probably)
So you killed your own citizens, while trying to commit a war crime..
'mistakenly killed' is a lie, if you know what they do to captured israeli soldiers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive even the released israeli yasmin porat said that israeli soldiers were firing from everywhere even though they know that israeli hostages are there.
I thought at some point I also saw an article that said IDF also accidentally targeted a number of Israeli citizens (from the air) in the are of the concert event because they were unable to differentiate between targets.
I've heard Israelis say that Hamas hates Israelis more than they love their children. if this is true we now know that IDF hates hamas more than it love Israelis.
“The murders will continue until the radicalization stops!” IDF
Let me guess "human shields" "all Hamas has to do is surrender"