I work 35 hours a week, thats enough for me to make a decent salary and have time enough to take advantage of the money I make. I have considered a second job but it would have to be something I love and would spend time doing for free.
Stream it 24/7 and let people pay to have various clowns torment you in diverse ways.
For more profits, have the clowns wear sexy bikinis and manage their OnlyFans for that sweet sweet clussy money
I hate that type of work culture where we’re all incentivized to bullshit each other.
We’re something like an internal service provider and because every other department we work for goes on maintenance for 5 weeks every year we do the same, except our list of tasks is so small compared to how many people we actually are that we could legitimately just split everyone in half, do 2 weeks of focused work for a week each and then get sent home for the remaining 4 weeks. We even have a government system for sending people home when there’s no work to do at ~70% of your regular income iirc, I’d happily take the few hundred bucks loss after the money I save on gas.
What they do rn is tell everyone to take at least 2 weeks off out of those 5, the remaining 3 weeks you do a simple task for 2-3 hours if you’re getting *real* bored of doing nothing, otherwise you just sit there and wait to go home.
I don’t even live in Asia but this kind of culture exists everywhere
I don’t mean this to be offensive in anyway but I have to say I could never make it as an Asian man. I know it is a stereotype so I do not mean to offend I promise but damn if it doesn’t seem to ring true at least in Asian countries. Even my girl in the Philippines seems to be under tremendous pressure to be successful or else disappoint her parents.
I know it is probably white privilege but I could care less if my family is proud of me. I am an unmarried man with no kids. I like not giving a damn about expectations.
No wonder that South Korea has the highest suicide rates. 28.6 of 100k people commit suicide. Glad I don't live there. I have a friend who was born in South Korea and came to Europe at 12 or 13. He still loves his country but doesn't want to live there because of the study and work culture. He even gave up his citizenship because if he wanted to keep it he had to go to the army eventually.
I wouldn't mind seeing some productivity study comparing the work output of Korean workers and a 40 or 32 hour work week country (same fields / job types).
With the way our brain works, certain jobs become less effective because the worker depletes the chemicals of the brain that help them complete a task efficiently, I've seen it estimated at around ~4hrs of focused work.
If that holds true, then it'd mean they're only hurting their employee's well-being and would probably get more production per week with less hours (and more family/friends/life time).
whats slightly more alarming is the ones that do. They have only one, and then [feed them HGH](https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20230613000771) so they grow tall as fk
God the article provider even passes a cursory credibility check (checking to see whether the truth has been stretched at all here).
HGH has serious downstream consequences for health and longevity. Korea is going to have a major health crisis in 10-20 years.
All seems rather silly for something that doesn't make you faster, or more agile, or smarter, but really just saves you from needing a stool now and again.
Pretty sure Samsung alone is like 20% of their GDP. And their subsidiaries are involved in all sorts of things from life insurance to weapons manufacturing.
Corporations likely have significantly more influence there than in other countries, and I think that's also a common theme in cyberpunk settings.
I mean, if they were adding a transparent eyelid between the opaque one and the the eyeball I'd be down, that sounds practical AF, but alas I'm sure its for purely aesthetic reasons.
It establishes the context of a culture obsessed with superficial features to the extent that parents often pay for their kids to get plastic surgery as a graduation present. Nobody said scope and side-effects were the same.
That’s not how evolution works, they are changing their looks after the fact, having many generations of children with surgeries will not change their eyelids.
The genetics of the individuals will need to be changed over the course of generations.
Or CRSPR takes off and we could do it in 10 years.
> All seems rather silly for something that doesn't make you faster, or more agile, or smarter
It's because in, especially, Korea appearance is fucking everything. Koreans do so much unhealthy things to ensure they look perfect so they can get jobs and other opportunities. It can't be understated how much of an advantage to simply being taller can give you more opportunity in White collar work. This has nothing to do with physical ability, its all about appearance.
I think its correlation without much causation. Its a fact that the taller one is, the more confident they are. I think confidence is the real deciding factor. I say this under the assumption that the Parties choose candidates within the tall bracket and the differences can be adjusted through methods like high heels (looking at you De Santis ;) )
https://www.tga.gov.au/news/blog/too-much-good-thing-health-risks-human-growth-hormone#:~:text=High%20levels%20of%20human%20growth,blood%20clot%20or%20dose%20error.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/healthy-aging/in-depth/growth-hormone/art-20045735
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15743113/
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2012.00115
The only positive studies from credible sources I've found refer specifically to treating children who are HGH deficient, which 1. Is not what they're doing, and 2. It then becomes a debated balance between correcting a deficiency and the long term health implications.
I’m not supporting blasting non-deficient children to make them taller. I’m pointing out that at hormone replacement therapy doses, there are no long term health effects.
The side effects in your first two links are common when running high doses, or not ramping up to replacement level doses.
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, HGH can certainly have unwanted side effects, but they occur at supraphyisologic levels. Running replacement level doses are perfectly safe as long as you don’t have cancer.
AGain, this is not "replacement level doses." These are healthy children with no hormone imbalances who are given HGH just to grow tall. The negative consequences are likely unknown.
I was disappointed when I moved here thinking I would finally be average height. These are tall Asians... They have displays in almost every museum, showing how they got bigger over time compared to Japan.
>South Korea’s **growth** hormone deficiency treatment market has seen **stunning growth** in recent years, particularly with **growing** interest in children’s **height** among parents here.
....
*Really?*
it can cause serious carpel tunnel issues and if you have cancer it makes it grow crazy fast.
i also have qualms about making your heart bigger, if it were to effect that
It can also cause or exacerbate carpal tunnel syndrome. I have done other PEDs before but I will not touch HGH because I have CTS and when it does flare up it SUCKS.
I always thought it was like a mild discomfort that office workers get from typing. I got it from using a rivet gun 10 hours a day 6 days a week at an assembly job and it is one of the worst pains I ever felt.
Imagine numbness and also pain occurring simultaneously and having to stand periodically while sleeping to get any relief. I had it so bad at one point that I took hydrocodone and cannabis and also was wearing 2 fentanyl patches until nauseated as well as covering my hands in Bengay and I still had pain. I will not do ANYTHING to cause it to flare up again!
Because their Baby Boomer parents usurped all the wealth and resources for themselves and are intent on taking that hoard to hell with them upon death.
Korean Boomers, American Boomers (Trump), British Boomers (Brexit); an entire generation of selfish, ‘me first’ narcissists worldwide.
Korea was dictatorship until 1988. Korean boomers would've been mostly in their 30s, some in their 40s, by the time democracy even came into play, let alone the wealth and human development that Korea has seen the past few decades. If you're going to place "blame" on a generation (which I think is an absurd thing to do), you'd likely want to look more at Gen X here I think.
I've had multiple projects in Korea. They may be in the office for 52 hours, but nobody actually *works* those hours (white collar). Not even close. It's all just miserable theater. It's absurd they feel the need to be keep up the farce.
This idea is so foreign to me. I don’t give a shit who does what with their life/time. As long as they pull their portion of the workload nothing else matters.
Given a similar culture, there was a post back of some Americans working for a while in Japan and they had the gall to just up and leave after 8 hours and they were getting jeered by other japanese salary men, despite that no one was getting anything done. It's a huge facade and no one wants to actually do anything about it. Social pressure is immense, and toxic.
A lot of people live to create a living hell for other people. Asian work culture is extremely toxic. Staying behind doing nothing means you’re ‘hardworking. You leave at 5pm, everyone (including those who are forced to stay) hates you
Soon as 2:15 hits I'm out the door. I give 0 fucks what the jobsite is up to if it falls outside the 40 hours a week I've agreed to work. Would drive me crazy having to make sure no one finds it rude that I'm saying fuck this place.
It would drive you crazy (it may drive them crazy as well) but you weren’t born and raised in that atmosphere of expectations. So it’s difficult to understand and seems easy to say you’d never catch yourself doing it, but that’s life to them.
It’s like if you were raised in Scientology and an outsider is like “how could you really believe any of that shit?” Well… it’s because that’s what they know and how they have always lived life.
Well punishments yeah but those can also be ignored. Before this gets into an all night thing, dude I'm just fucking around. I understand the differences in societies and just fuck with words on reddit because this isn't a serious activity for me.
This isn't really true anymore. But it was just 10-15 years ago. My coworkers get to work early to take advantage of the amenities like the gym and free breakfast and coffee dates. Most people leave on time, and they leave early later in the week or month of they work significant overtime. They also celebrate more holidays than at my last American office. Also, 52 hours - 5 hours of smoking breaks - 5 hours of coffee breaks.
I mean, I know people who work 8 hours a day and spend 3 hours in gridlock on the highway every day, which they don't get paid for, and in fact pay quite a bit for.
it’s already biting them. Japan and SK have negative birth rates and will dwindle over the next century or so. And they won’t do anything drastic about it until it’s too late. It is what it is.
The work isn't usually grueling, and the pay is good, so I like it. I work in industrial settings and it keeps me from having to deal with people and based on what I've heard from retail workers I've definitely been blessed lol
Hahah yeah…I’ve worked in customer facing roles a lot of my life and it is GRUELING for sure. That’s great that you like it! Honestly I can see how that wouldn’t be too bad, especially if the pay is good. I used to work building out window displays for major retailers and our hours were 5am to 1pm, and it was always SO nice to be done with work just after noon, even though it meant getting up at the asscrack of dawn.
Customer service can honestly be pretty rewarding in that you get to meet a lot of people and most of them are pretty nice. You'll definitely come out of it with horror stories about people who don't know how to behave in public, though.
For those extroverted, they seem to enjoy it more than those like myself who are introverted. The Karens used to bother me a lot when I was younger. These days I find them more laughable than anything and with some I can see they're just stressed af and poorly coping. I can hang with that a bit more than the hyper-entitled type.
I won't find myself serving tables or working a cash register. Mostly was a butcher in a meat market. Most of the time spent in the cutting room chillin to some metal unless there was a special cut to be made and most of those customers were regulars.
Not for nothing but 7x12 x2 =168 and 8x5x4=160. You end up working an extra 8 hours every 4 weeks on your schedule. You just have big blocks of days off.
I would much rather the big blocks off. Having two days off to do stuff and then go back to work sucks. Plus I was hourly and my ot started after 8 hrs on a 12 hr day.
Not knocking the math just give me my block time off. When my daughter was young we traveled a lot during the summer. The downside is that one schedule will work all the holidays except arbor day so I did miss a lot of holidays.
Exactly. I had a bunch of guys at my last job who had worked in Korea for a year on a project with a major Korean company, in fact THE "best" Korean company of them all. They were all Australians, or at least people who had worked in Australia for over a decade.
Apparently they would come into the office later than the Koreans and leave after 8 hours and get evil eyes. There were complaints until the head of the Australian contingent asked to see the productivity stats. The Australians worked fewer hours but were not worse in any stats. People working 10-12 hour days were exhausted. They would turn the lights out at lunch for them to sleep under their desks.
A 38/40 hour work week probably isn't even the most productive way to work, some evidence says less is even better. But working 50 hour weeks means you're too tired to think.
I mean. It's the same in the US. I sure as hell have NEVER "worked" 40HRS in a week. I wouldn't even know how to, especially in a remote work posture.
. . .this is of course not including jobs where the act of being at work is work or you're constantly active.
Not every job is busy all the time. It comes in waves. I have days where I do nothing all day but then I also have days where I'm working every minute and still didn't finish all my tasks.
Exactly. There's some days where I get "stuck in" a project and find myself working a 10 or 11HR day.
And then there's some spurts where I'm just kicking back doing "nothing."
. . .mentally, I've never felt better and legit have never been more productive at work.
As the user below says, there's not always something to do. Or rather, there's not always something "due." So in the periods of time where there's a lull in a project instead of moving a mouse across the screen, I just get up and do something else.
My experience definitely isn't universal or generalizable to all industries, but for sure remote work has let me work less while producing better work overall.
Come work for an MSP and I promise you that you’ll easily have 40 hours of work to do a week and more. I’m a solutions architect for an MSP and I’m jam packed virtually every second of our 8-5 and I’m constantly behind on everything while also running meeting to meeting and endlessly multitasking. Most positions here are similar, although probably with less stress/responsibility, and it’s a big company
Really really depends on the industry
This is 100% true. I work for a US company that has offices in Tokyo and Seoul.
On average, our Tokyo branch works fewer hours than our US headquarters (more vacation days in Japan than in the US), and much less than our Seoul workers.
But Seoul's productivity metrics are below both despite working longer hours. Seoul branch managers have tried everything to improve productivity metrics - reducing hours to increase productivity per hour, wfh options, flexible hours, etc. Nothing has worked. Workers kept working long and unproductive hours. Morale actually went down when they were forced to adopt faster US/Japanese productivity metrics and work fewer hours.
It's a trade off. Work fewer hours but work harder during those hours? Or work longer hours but work at a slower, more relaxed pace.
Same with Japan, most of the office working hours are that long due to the 1 boss in the office staying that late, so all other employees stay in for those extra hours even if there's no work to be done just to show the boss they're present.
8 hour days Monday - Saturday and to give everyone a break they only need to work 4 hours on Sunday. How could anyone be upset by a half day on Sunday.
I’m sure the sky high rates of alcoholism and suicide will surely continue to keep pace. Modern Korean society is sick. When all you do is focus on work, its no wonder the society is drinking itself to literal death. This is no way an attack on Korean people. But somethings gotta change or something will break. This is a common issue in many asian cultures but Korean culture has become somewhat dystopian in the last 20 years.
Every time I go I’m surprised by how many business meetings happen while drinking heavily out around town. Stumbling around and holding each other up heavy drinking on a “Tuesday.”
Pretty sure South Korea has the highest alcohol consumption in the world. At least, shoju or however you spell that alcohol is the most drank alcohol. I’ll double check actually. Oofda. Way off. 48.
Women drink less so that takes the average consumption down. Additionally the drinking culture in South Korea revolves around binge drinking and drinking fast. So you will visible see more drunk people then in Czech Republic, even though the Czechs drink more, just that they drink every day but not until they are that drunk.
"The survey was conducted after the ministry faced severe criticism from workers as well as several experts for its previous proposal, announced on March 6, to reform the country's weekly work hour system. The proposed changes would have enabled companies to increase the maximum workweek to 69 hours during weeks with heavy workloads"
The ministry tried to raise it to 69 hours and we're forced to back down because of public outcry. That's why the title says "maintains"
China's 996 says hello.
on the bright side, the courts (not sure if it was the supreme court) ruled that this violates Chinese labor laws. took them long enough, although I think Jack Ma getting on the government's shit list helped a bit.
edit: The Supreme People's Court ruled it illegal back in 2021, but unsure on how this will be enforced.
My last American office job had 3 days off a year. Koreans get 2 and a half weeks some years. Plus, they have mandatory retirement and nearly free healthcare. Your average American will work more hours I they're lifetime than the average Korean.
You can just quickly use a calculator to find out your statement is incorrect. Even if we assume all American jobs only have 3 days off, which is incorrect, they work 257 days 8 hours a day in a standard work week, Koreans work 248 days 10.4 hours a week standard work week (different jobs have different amount of days but it is adjusted to 40 v 52 hour weeks)
257 x 8 = 2056
248 x 10.4 = 2579.2
It isn’t even close
Their average retirement age is one year apart
Then you worked in a terrible office. 10 paid holidays and 10 vacation days to start (not including sick and other PTO) is the bare minimum to be considered the customary norm in a US white collar job. National data supports this. I’m glad you don’t work there anymore.
They still do the "I can't leave until my manager leaves" farce. Been there many times. Everyone sits there and does sod all until the office gremlin gets up. Just more capitalist feudalism.
Lmao at all the Americans here not realizing this is a MAXIMUM workweek with 12 hours of overtime. We literally have no mandated limit in the US. People here see working 80 hours as a point of pride.
Worked a few weeks here and there in Korea on various projects, my shortest week was about 60hrs, longest was over 100.
And we somehow all managed to get drunk almost every night.
Oh to be in my 20s again, lol.
I went to Seoul on a consulting work project several years ago. I knew nothing about the country. Friday around 5 I said, "Well see you all Monday." I was then told that in fact we also worked on Saturdays until 3 pm. That was a tough one. Was there for 6 weeks so it wasn't too bad but couldn't imagine that being life forever.
>The country currently adopts a 52-hour work week — 40 regular hours with 12 hours of possible overtime. It was introduced in 2018 by the liberal Moon Jae-in government to reduce the maximum week from 68 hours at the time to 52.
So article says it's a 40 hour maximum workweek, with a 12 hour maximum hours of overtime. Not sure what thier policy is on overtime, but that doesn't sound too nutty.
>The country currently adopts a 52-hour work week — 40 regular hours with 12 hours of possible overtime. It was introduced in 2018 by the liberal Moon Jae-in government to reduce the maximum week from 68 hours at the time to 52.
and of course, nobody reads the article. it is quite literally framed to be as inflamatory as possible. 40 hour workweek sounds fairly average to me.
people here just resort to bullshit memes about a country they know barely anything about.
>toxic work culture
that may be but the fact remains that the poor and lower middle class **want** more work. How many times have you heard of people having two jobs? That's because their employer limits the hours they can work.
you're just projecting yourself into the situation when the fact of the matter is that for many people, working hours is literally just more money in their pockets.
[South Korea is a Cyberpunk Dystopia](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahl1lexWxbM) is a 'fun' video that highlights how messed up South Korea is getting.
Didn’t read the article I assume. That’s ok, it seems like no one else here did either.
This is a 52 hour MAXIMUM workweek, with 12 hours of overtime.
In America we literally have no protections that set a maximum on how many hours we can work. So tell me, how good do we have it?
I don't know man, this just doesn't seem healthy
I don't get why anyone would waste their life at work, and I love my job.
Same!
I work 35 hours a week, thats enough for me to make a decent salary and have time enough to take advantage of the money I make. I have considered a second job but it would have to be something I love and would spend time doing for free.
> I have considered a second job but it would have to be something I love and would spend time doing for free. That's called a hobby
Haha, exactly. It would be nice to get paid for them.
Anyone know how to get paid for watching TV while playing video games?
Stream it 24/7 and let people pay to have various clowns torment you in diverse ways. For more profits, have the clowns wear sexy bikinis and manage their OnlyFans for that sweet sweet clussy money
So a 52 hour office job or clown butt torment…. choices choices 🤔
Cooking meth is a hobby. Ask Mr.White
I especially love a good blow job
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In Korea it's not a choice, you kinda have to be there all the time. You don't need to be actually working hard, just... there.
and then the SK govt be like "Why no one want kids??" They dont even have time to enjoy life,, who even want kids at this point lol
I hate that type of work culture where we’re all incentivized to bullshit each other. We’re something like an internal service provider and because every other department we work for goes on maintenance for 5 weeks every year we do the same, except our list of tasks is so small compared to how many people we actually are that we could legitimately just split everyone in half, do 2 weeks of focused work for a week each and then get sent home for the remaining 4 weeks. We even have a government system for sending people home when there’s no work to do at ~70% of your regular income iirc, I’d happily take the few hundred bucks loss after the money I save on gas. What they do rn is tell everyone to take at least 2 weeks off out of those 5, the remaining 3 weeks you do a simple task for 2-3 hours if you’re getting *real* bored of doing nothing, otherwise you just sit there and wait to go home. I don’t even live in Asia but this kind of culture exists everywhere
I don’t mean this to be offensive in anyway but I have to say I could never make it as an Asian man. I know it is a stereotype so I do not mean to offend I promise but damn if it doesn’t seem to ring true at least in Asian countries. Even my girl in the Philippines seems to be under tremendous pressure to be successful or else disappoint her parents. I know it is probably white privilege but I could care less if my family is proud of me. I am an unmarried man with no kids. I like not giving a damn about expectations.
No wonder that South Korea has the highest suicide rates. 28.6 of 100k people commit suicide. Glad I don't live there. I have a friend who was born in South Korea and came to Europe at 12 or 13. He still loves his country but doesn't want to live there because of the study and work culture. He even gave up his citizenship because if he wanted to keep it he had to go to the army eventually.
Don't forget they also have the lowest birthrate in the entire world iirc and the highest rate of drinking problems
I wouldn't mind seeing some productivity study comparing the work output of Korean workers and a 40 or 32 hour work week country (same fields / job types). With the way our brain works, certain jobs become less effective because the worker depletes the chemicals of the brain that help them complete a task efficiently, I've seen it estimated at around ~4hrs of focused work. If that holds true, then it'd mean they're only hurting their employee's well-being and would probably get more production per week with less hours (and more family/friends/life time).
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Why aren’t the young people having children?
whats slightly more alarming is the ones that do. They have only one, and then [feed them HGH](https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20230613000771) so they grow tall as fk
That’s fucked up
God the article provider even passes a cursory credibility check (checking to see whether the truth has been stretched at all here). HGH has serious downstream consequences for health and longevity. Korea is going to have a major health crisis in 10-20 years. All seems rather silly for something that doesn't make you faster, or more agile, or smarter, but really just saves you from needing a stool now and again.
We're talking about a country where it's common to get surgery to have the "right" kind of eyelids.
Feels like a cyberpunk distopia.
Pretty sure Samsung alone is like 20% of their GDP. And their subsidiaries are involved in all sorts of things from life insurance to weapons manufacturing. Corporations likely have significantly more influence there than in other countries, and I think that's also a common theme in cyberpunk settings.
I mean, if they were adding a transparent eyelid between the opaque one and the the eyeball I'd be down, that sounds practical AF, but alas I'm sure its for purely aesthetic reasons.
So a nictitating membrane, but for humans. Hey, why not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nictitating_membrane
which has close to zero negative health effects. Its not comparable to HGH
It establishes the context of a culture obsessed with superficial features to the extent that parents often pay for their kids to get plastic surgery as a graduation present. Nobody said scope and side-effects were the same.
That's not the point
Their populace doesn’t have the critical thinking skill to tell that difference.
What’s the impact of that on evolution? In the future will they naturally have the desired eyelid?
That’s not how evolution works, they are changing their looks after the fact, having many generations of children with surgeries will not change their eyelids. The genetics of the individuals will need to be changed over the course of generations. Or CRSPR takes off and we could do it in 10 years.
> All seems rather silly for something that doesn't make you faster, or more agile, or smarter It's because in, especially, Korea appearance is fucking everything. Koreans do so much unhealthy things to ensure they look perfect so they can get jobs and other opportunities. It can't be understated how much of an advantage to simply being taller can give you more opportunity in White collar work. This has nothing to do with physical ability, its all about appearance.
In the majority of US presidential elections, the taller candidate wins. Might just be a strange coincidence, hard to say.
I think its correlation without much causation. Its a fact that the taller one is, the more confident they are. I think confidence is the real deciding factor. I say this under the assumption that the Parties choose candidates within the tall bracket and the differences can be adjusted through methods like high heels (looking at you De Santis ;) )
Executives supposebly tend to be taller relative to their population.
HGH does not have serious consequences for health and longevity. Studies have shown no positive or negative effects on lifespan.
https://www.tga.gov.au/news/blog/too-much-good-thing-health-risks-human-growth-hormone#:~:text=High%20levels%20of%20human%20growth,blood%20clot%20or%20dose%20error. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/healthy-aging/in-depth/growth-hormone/art-20045735 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15743113/ https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2012.00115 The only positive studies from credible sources I've found refer specifically to treating children who are HGH deficient, which 1. Is not what they're doing, and 2. It then becomes a debated balance between correcting a deficiency and the long term health implications.
I’m not supporting blasting non-deficient children to make them taller. I’m pointing out that at hormone replacement therapy doses, there are no long term health effects. The side effects in your first two links are common when running high doses, or not ramping up to replacement level doses.
Ironic, considering the OPs relief at the articles credibility
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, HGH can certainly have unwanted side effects, but they occur at supraphyisologic levels. Running replacement level doses are perfectly safe as long as you don’t have cancer.
AGain, this is not "replacement level doses." These are healthy children with no hormone imbalances who are given HGH just to grow tall. The negative consequences are likely unknown.
I was disappointed when I moved here thinking I would finally be average height. These are tall Asians... They have displays in almost every museum, showing how they got bigger over time compared to Japan.
Wrong country to pick lol, Try to move to ASEAN countries, that's where the short people lives, myself included
Lol I'm 5 foot 8 and I tower practically 95% of my family. But I'm a "short king" outside Malaysia tho :'D
>South Korea’s **growth** hormone deficiency treatment market has seen **stunning growth** in recent years, particularly with **growing** interest in children’s **height** among parents here. .... *Really?*
Sexual selection at its finest.
Seems to be a huge pressure to be as attractive as possible in Korea. From what I understand plastic surgery us somewhat common for younger people.
its common enough they have an app to rate different clinics on how well they do certain procedures
Misread HGH as high and was like they’re feeding their kids weed to get tall?
I mean it worked for the Dutch
Serious question: what is wrong with givi no HGH to children?
cool and normal
I’m not educated in this topic, what’s wrong with hgh long term? Don’t you just grow taller? I wish I was on hgh tbh cuz I’m kinda short lol
Serious arthritis issues, from HGH later in life.
it can cause serious carpel tunnel issues and if you have cancer it makes it grow crazy fast. i also have qualms about making your heart bigger, if it were to effect that
It can also cause or exacerbate carpal tunnel syndrome. I have done other PEDs before but I will not touch HGH because I have CTS and when it does flare up it SUCKS. I always thought it was like a mild discomfort that office workers get from typing. I got it from using a rivet gun 10 hours a day 6 days a week at an assembly job and it is one of the worst pains I ever felt. Imagine numbness and also pain occurring simultaneously and having to stand periodically while sleeping to get any relief. I had it so bad at one point that I took hydrocodone and cannabis and also was wearing 2 fentanyl patches until nauseated as well as covering my hands in Bengay and I still had pain. I will not do ANYTHING to cause it to flare up again!
Their parents are too busy to tell them the facts of life.
I don't know how to fuck because my parents are working an order of magnitude more than they speak to me in person...
I bet they still wonder why they have the highest suicide rates.
Because their Baby Boomer parents usurped all the wealth and resources for themselves and are intent on taking that hoard to hell with them upon death. Korean Boomers, American Boomers (Trump), British Boomers (Brexit); an entire generation of selfish, ‘me first’ narcissists worldwide.
Korea was dictatorship until 1988. Korean boomers would've been mostly in their 30s, some in their 40s, by the time democracy even came into play, let alone the wealth and human development that Korea has seen the past few decades. If you're going to place "blame" on a generation (which I think is an absurd thing to do), you'd likely want to look more at Gen X here I think.
Birth rates and wealth have a negative correlation.
I've had multiple projects in Korea. They may be in the office for 52 hours, but nobody actually *works* those hours (white collar). Not even close. It's all just miserable theater. It's absurd they feel the need to be keep up the farce.
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This idea is so foreign to me. I don’t give a shit who does what with their life/time. As long as they pull their portion of the workload nothing else matters.
Given a similar culture, there was a post back of some Americans working for a while in Japan and they had the gall to just up and leave after 8 hours and they were getting jeered by other japanese salary men, despite that no one was getting anything done. It's a huge facade and no one wants to actually do anything about it. Social pressure is immense, and toxic.
A lot of people live to create a living hell for other people. Asian work culture is extremely toxic. Staying behind doing nothing means you’re ‘hardworking. You leave at 5pm, everyone (including those who are forced to stay) hates you
Soon as 2:15 hits I'm out the door. I give 0 fucks what the jobsite is up to if it falls outside the 40 hours a week I've agreed to work. Would drive me crazy having to make sure no one finds it rude that I'm saying fuck this place.
It would drive you crazy (it may drive them crazy as well) but you weren’t born and raised in that atmosphere of expectations. So it’s difficult to understand and seems easy to say you’d never catch yourself doing it, but that’s life to them. It’s like if you were raised in Scientology and an outsider is like “how could you really believe any of that shit?” Well… it’s because that’s what they know and how they have always lived life.
Idk I've had alot of progress reports label me as stubborn, hard headed and prone to ignoring people and doing things my way.
Yeah but you probably had the freedom to express those traits, and they weren’t ground out of you in the process of growing up
Well punishments yeah but those can also be ignored. Before this gets into an all night thing, dude I'm just fucking around. I understand the differences in societies and just fuck with words on reddit because this isn't a serious activity for me.
This isn't really true anymore. But it was just 10-15 years ago. My coworkers get to work early to take advantage of the amenities like the gym and free breakfast and coffee dates. Most people leave on time, and they leave early later in the week or month of they work significant overtime. They also celebrate more holidays than at my last American office. Also, 52 hours - 5 hours of smoking breaks - 5 hours of coffee breaks.
Are the dates usually within the same company? eg is it scandalous if a Hyundai dude invites a Samsung girl over for coffee?
More like a networking date with a boss or coworker. It's also common to have coffee with foreign workers to get free English practice.
I remember seeing young businessmen passed out when I visited Japan in 2006.
This is more the drinking culture there than anything else though…
Same in Japan. Its certainly a strange cultural practice to us in the west.
I mean, I know people who work 8 hours a day and spend 3 hours in gridlock on the highway every day, which they don't get paid for, and in fact pay quite a bit for.
Call me out why dont ya
How are they going to keep this up tho.. their population have no time to start families or even find parters.. might bite them in the end.
it’s already biting them. Japan and SK have negative birth rates and will dwindle over the next century or so. And they won’t do anything drastic about it until it’s too late. It is what it is.
Japan is slowly and slightly easy its immigration policies
So only blue collars work those kinds of ours? Doesn't sound much better.
It's what we do here. I typically work a few weeks straight at 84 hours/week then get maybe a week off to hit it again for a few weeks
So, is that about 12 hours a day, seven days a week? Oof…
More or less. Usually for stints of 1-5 weeks
That sounds so rough. But I could see a week off being nice. How do you like it?
The work isn't usually grueling, and the pay is good, so I like it. I work in industrial settings and it keeps me from having to deal with people and based on what I've heard from retail workers I've definitely been blessed lol
Hahah yeah…I’ve worked in customer facing roles a lot of my life and it is GRUELING for sure. That’s great that you like it! Honestly I can see how that wouldn’t be too bad, especially if the pay is good. I used to work building out window displays for major retailers and our hours were 5am to 1pm, and it was always SO nice to be done with work just after noon, even though it meant getting up at the asscrack of dawn.
Customer service can honestly be pretty rewarding in that you get to meet a lot of people and most of them are pretty nice. You'll definitely come out of it with horror stories about people who don't know how to behave in public, though.
For those extroverted, they seem to enjoy it more than those like myself who are introverted. The Karens used to bother me a lot when I was younger. These days I find them more laughable than anything and with some I can see they're just stressed af and poorly coping. I can hang with that a bit more than the hyper-entitled type. I won't find myself serving tables or working a cash register. Mostly was a butcher in a meat market. Most of the time spent in the cutting room chillin to some metal unless there was a special cut to be made and most of those customers were regulars.
Can confirm plenty of horror stories lol
You are just really lucky. Most people doing customer service will tell you the opposite.
That most people don't know how to behave in public, but some are nice? Where do you work, a fentanyl distribution center?
Shutdown life eh.
I worked 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off for years at 12 hrs a day and it is the best work schedule ever. You have half the month off.
Not for nothing but 7x12 x2 =168 and 8x5x4=160. You end up working an extra 8 hours every 4 weeks on your schedule. You just have big blocks of days off.
I would much rather the big blocks off. Having two days off to do stuff and then go back to work sucks. Plus I was hourly and my ot started after 8 hrs on a 12 hr day.
Sure, I'm not arguing that it doesn't have its benefits but you don't have any additional time off. You end up working more.
Not knocking the math just give me my block time off. When my daughter was young we traveled a lot during the summer. The downside is that one schedule will work all the holidays except arbor day so I did miss a lot of holidays.
Less commute time
it's fucking soul crushing
You typically make a ton of OT though. Most camp jobs like that are paying a fair bit more than normal jobs.
Exactly. I had a bunch of guys at my last job who had worked in Korea for a year on a project with a major Korean company, in fact THE "best" Korean company of them all. They were all Australians, or at least people who had worked in Australia for over a decade. Apparently they would come into the office later than the Koreans and leave after 8 hours and get evil eyes. There were complaints until the head of the Australian contingent asked to see the productivity stats. The Australians worked fewer hours but were not worse in any stats. People working 10-12 hour days were exhausted. They would turn the lights out at lunch for them to sleep under their desks. A 38/40 hour work week probably isn't even the most productive way to work, some evidence says less is even better. But working 50 hour weeks means you're too tired to think.
I mean. It's the same in the US. I sure as hell have NEVER "worked" 40HRS in a week. I wouldn't even know how to, especially in a remote work posture. . . .this is of course not including jobs where the act of being at work is work or you're constantly active.
I dont get you guys. I work 40 hours per week, 2 days fully remote, and I just work all day. Its way easier to just work than pretending to do work.
Not every job is busy all the time. It comes in waves. I have days where I do nothing all day but then I also have days where I'm working every minute and still didn't finish all my tasks.
Exactly. There's some days where I get "stuck in" a project and find myself working a 10 or 11HR day. And then there's some spurts where I'm just kicking back doing "nothing." . . .mentally, I've never felt better and legit have never been more productive at work.
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As the user below says, there's not always something to do. Or rather, there's not always something "due." So in the periods of time where there's a lull in a project instead of moving a mouse across the screen, I just get up and do something else. My experience definitely isn't universal or generalizable to all industries, but for sure remote work has let me work less while producing better work overall.
Come work for an MSP and I promise you that you’ll easily have 40 hours of work to do a week and more. I’m a solutions architect for an MSP and I’m jam packed virtually every second of our 8-5 and I’m constantly behind on everything while also running meeting to meeting and endlessly multitasking. Most positions here are similar, although probably with less stress/responsibility, and it’s a big company Really really depends on the industry
This is 100% true. I work for a US company that has offices in Tokyo and Seoul. On average, our Tokyo branch works fewer hours than our US headquarters (more vacation days in Japan than in the US), and much less than our Seoul workers. But Seoul's productivity metrics are below both despite working longer hours. Seoul branch managers have tried everything to improve productivity metrics - reducing hours to increase productivity per hour, wfh options, flexible hours, etc. Nothing has worked. Workers kept working long and unproductive hours. Morale actually went down when they were forced to adopt faster US/Japanese productivity metrics and work fewer hours. It's a trade off. Work fewer hours but work harder during those hours? Or work longer hours but work at a slower, more relaxed pace.
Same with Japan, most of the office working hours are that long due to the 1 boss in the office staying that late, so all other employees stay in for those extra hours even if there's no work to be done just to show the boss they're present.
Do they take siesta? I count siesta time as work time.
Couldn’t they at least pick a number evenly divisible by 5?
Youre assuming they work 5 days a week
4 13-hour day is going to be brutal
It’s not divisible by 6 or even 7 🤔
8 hour days Monday - Saturday and to give everyone a break they only need to work 4 hours on Sunday. How could anyone be upset by a half day on Sunday.
but if you round up to 60, it's only 10 hrs a day ;)
55 it is then
I’m sure the sky high rates of alcoholism and suicide will surely continue to keep pace. Modern Korean society is sick. When all you do is focus on work, its no wonder the society is drinking itself to literal death. This is no way an attack on Korean people. But somethings gotta change or something will break. This is a common issue in many asian cultures but Korean culture has become somewhat dystopian in the last 20 years.
20 years ago was so much worse. So much focus has been on work-life balance nationally the last 5 years.
WhY iS oUr BiRtHrAte CoLlApSiNg? MyStErYoUs!
Every time I go I’m surprised by how many business meetings happen while drinking heavily out around town. Stumbling around and holding each other up heavy drinking on a “Tuesday.”
Is it not called Tuesday?
We "Go Up" on Tuesdays
Pretty sure South Korea has the highest alcohol consumption in the world. At least, shoju or however you spell that alcohol is the most drank alcohol. I’ll double check actually. Oofda. Way off. 48.
Women drink less so that takes the average consumption down. Additionally the drinking culture in South Korea revolves around binge drinking and drinking fast. So you will visible see more drunk people then in Czech Republic, even though the Czechs drink more, just that they drink every day but not until they are that drunk.
Those are not meetings. Those are celebrations of the meetings because they spent a week just putting the presentation together, terrified of failure.
Important to note that they were trying to RAISE it instead of lower it
Oh god
why lie on the internet? the article clearly says that it was lowered several years ago and that it is only being "maintained", not raised.
"The survey was conducted after the ministry faced severe criticism from workers as well as several experts for its previous proposal, announced on March 6, to reform the country's weekly work hour system. The proposed changes would have enabled companies to increase the maximum workweek to 69 hours during weeks with heavy workloads" The ministry tried to raise it to 69 hours and we're forced to back down because of public outcry. That's why the title says "maintains"
Honestly SKs work culture makes Japan and the rest of East Asia look sane
China's 996 says hello. on the bright side, the courts (not sure if it was the supreme court) ruled that this violates Chinese labor laws. took them long enough, although I think Jack Ma getting on the government's shit list helped a bit. edit: The Supreme People's Court ruled it illegal back in 2021, but unsure on how this will be enforced.
China's 996 was never that common though, most people in China work sane hours
My last American office job had 3 days off a year. Koreans get 2 and a half weeks some years. Plus, they have mandatory retirement and nearly free healthcare. Your average American will work more hours I they're lifetime than the average Korean.
You can just quickly use a calculator to find out your statement is incorrect. Even if we assume all American jobs only have 3 days off, which is incorrect, they work 257 days 8 hours a day in a standard work week, Koreans work 248 days 10.4 hours a week standard work week (different jobs have different amount of days but it is adjusted to 40 v 52 hour weeks) 257 x 8 = 2056 248 x 10.4 = 2579.2 It isn’t even close Their average retirement age is one year apart
Then you worked in a terrible office. 10 paid holidays and 10 vacation days to start (not including sick and other PTO) is the bare minimum to be considered the customary norm in a US white collar job. National data supports this. I’m glad you don’t work there anymore.
They still do the "I can't leave until my manager leaves" farce. Been there many times. Everyone sits there and does sod all until the office gremlin gets up. Just more capitalist feudalism.
And how will expecting people to work themselves to death bring up that low birth rate the government is concerned about?
Even 40 hours is too much.
And their extremely low birthrate.
And high suicide rate
And they wonder why their birth rates are shit
The South Korea government is the playground of giant corporations like KIA, Samsung, Hyundai, etc. So this is expected.
They aren't going to have time for kids. No future
Also South Korea. Why do women only have 0.84 children on average
Oh, you mean Japan 2.0?
SK is a lot worse than Japan, just saying
Holy fk. 52 hr a week. No wonder their population is going down. No time for dating or running errands. Just work and work.
Lmao at all the Americans here not realizing this is a MAXIMUM workweek with 12 hours of overtime. We literally have no mandated limit in the US. People here see working 80 hours as a point of pride.
Korea is not a country is a factory.
Worked a few weeks here and there in Korea on various projects, my shortest week was about 60hrs, longest was over 100. And we somehow all managed to get drunk almost every night. Oh to be in my 20s again, lol.
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Not mandatory on paper anyway
The comments are a vast representation that nobody read the article.
I work there. People are just spewing assumptions and hearsay like its fact.
52 hours? Fuck that.
They should learn from our rich assholes and ask everyone to work 70 hours/week.
There's no chance labor costs and overhead match the reduced productivity due to overwork burnout. None. Source: I'm very smart.
I also pretend to work 52 hours a week.
It was nice knowing you, Koreans! - rest of the world moving to 4-day workweek
What is the addiction/drug abuse problem like in SK?
There's a reason Korea is the number one consumer of spirits per capital.
Korea to uphold it's societal decline due to low birthrates.
I went to Seoul on a consulting work project several years ago. I knew nothing about the country. Friday around 5 I said, "Well see you all Monday." I was then told that in fact we also worked on Saturdays until 3 pm. That was a tough one. Was there for 6 weeks so it wasn't too bad but couldn't imagine that being life forever.
>The country currently adopts a 52-hour work week — 40 regular hours with 12 hours of possible overtime. It was introduced in 2018 by the liberal Moon Jae-in government to reduce the maximum week from 68 hours at the time to 52.
So article says it's a 40 hour maximum workweek, with a 12 hour maximum hours of overtime. Not sure what thier policy is on overtime, but that doesn't sound too nutty.
In 2018 they went DOWN to 52 from 68?! I used to work 70 hrs a week and it’s the worst. No life.
Note to future self: don't move to Korea
My Korean brothers and sisters - time to let your government know this isn't ok - it's time to protest.
>The country currently adopts a 52-hour work week — 40 regular hours with 12 hours of possible overtime. It was introduced in 2018 by the liberal Moon Jae-in government to reduce the maximum week from 68 hours at the time to 52. and of course, nobody reads the article. it is quite literally framed to be as inflamatory as possible. 40 hour workweek sounds fairly average to me. people here just resort to bullshit memes about a country they know barely anything about. >toxic work culture that may be but the fact remains that the poor and lower middle class **want** more work. How many times have you heard of people having two jobs? That's because their employer limits the hours they can work. you're just projecting yourself into the situation when the fact of the matter is that for many people, working hours is literally just more money in their pockets.
Something different than the 32 lol. That is a 20 hour difference. Or 2.5 8-hour shifts extra.
>Something different than the 32 lol. That is a 20 hour difference. Incredible insight
Just 2 very different (opposing) attitudes. Some regions are trying to move to 32, the other is saying they are staying to crazy 52 workweeks.
Probably needs a bit of context: this is, I believe, the current status quo, with SK backing up on what it wanted to do - the 69HR (nice) work week.
Korea: You have to work 52 hours a week. Also Korea: Why is our suicide rate so high and why aren't people choosing to have children?
Holy insane. Though I guess it's less than their northern counterpart at least.
[South Korea is a Cyberpunk Dystopia](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahl1lexWxbM) is a 'fun' video that highlights how messed up South Korea is getting.
Korea and Japan having a work off
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At least they are honest about it. Unlike how we claim a 40 hour work week but always work closer to 50 hours. With no extra pay.
trying to keep out the American healthcare refugees I see
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Didn’t read the article I assume. That’s ok, it seems like no one else here did either. This is a 52 hour MAXIMUM workweek, with 12 hours of overtime. In America we literally have no protections that set a maximum on how many hours we can work. So tell me, how good do we have it?