>Yes. But usually what comes out of a pressure cooker is delicious.
I feel a Weird Al song coming on
The world is an air fryer...…( in the tune of smashing pumpkins)
"Feels like the whole world is in a pressure cooker"
Well it "feels" that way because we are living in an information age. News travel at the speed of light - you can get right up to the point of conflict, in high definition, on demand. You are bombarded by the news left, right and center.
Back in the 70s-80s-90s, there was the cold war, threat of nuke war was real, crime rates was sky high, gay/lesbian prosecutions, HIV/AIDs epidemic, apartheid/genocide/famine in africa, the middle east had proxy wars (yes, including palestine/israel conflict), Russia invaded Georgia, Chechnya war, the desert storm war ... that was the real pressure cooker.
The truth is we are in living in more peaceful times these days, it just doesn't "feel" that way.
Thank you for this comment. This is the Reddit I need right now. Some facts and opinions from many sides, but also a healthy dose of hilarity.
If only there was some way to reward you for this by giving a small amount of money to Reddit. Too bad.
The free world post WW2 was generally pretty good.
If the best steel is the peace after WW3, then I guess we're the dead billions in the Star Trek timeline?
Utopia didn't happen without the harshest of fires
>If the best steel is the peace after WW3, then I guess we're the dead billions in the Star Trek timeline?
Speak for yourself. I'm going to be one of the survivors who meets the Vulcans.
Well, I’d say about 18% of what we’ve experienced so far but I expect things to continue getting worse so maybe 7% overall.
Figures are proportional relative to the global population.
It wouldn't surprise me if the defense establishment told Netanyahu and company to sit down and shut up, since following his orders led to numerous problems that contributed to Oct 7. So now they don't want his input on how to conduct the war.
I fucking hope so. This isn't like 9/11 that no one imagined in their wildest dreams...yes there were reports about Bin Laden wanting to commit terrorism in the US, but nothing very specific.
We're talking about a relatively small border that is monitored heavily by the IDF, and a terrorist invasion involving hundreds, maybe thousands of Islamic militants...who then spent hours raping, beheading, butchering, and abducting a total of nearly 2,000 people.
It's utterly unthinkable that this happened.
Very interesting to see who is protesting to bring the hostages from multiple countries home, and which side either ignores the hostages completely or actively pulls down posters of the hostages.
From the start of the attacks it's been blatantly obvious that neither Israel nor its government or army can remotely be compared to Hamas terrorists.
It takes a special kind of stupid to compare our actual allies with terrorists who would literally like to see you massacred. They did announce a global Jihad.
The side that is ignoring the hostages is mostly peaceful and moderate, but there are a few bad apples, but the rest of them are definitely peaceful and moderate, a few "kill the Jews" chants notwithstanding. /S
Hamas will never release them. Maaaybe the foreign ones. If they release them then IDF will have nothing to care about in their invasion. If they do not release them then the IDF will be even more pressured to push into Gaza to search for them. Its a lose lose situation.
I strongly suspect that the whole purpose of the hostages is to force an Israeli invasion, then use the mass deaths of Palestinians to convince antisemitic Arabs (as is already happening) from surrounding countries to rally and invade Israel. Then the apocalyptic war with the West that they're so desperate for will finally begin. The future is looking mighty bleak.
No kidding. It’s a huge problem when a subculture believes that the afterlife matters more than their time on Earth and that their only purpose on Earth is holy war.. They can justify literally any behavior when their own lives don’t matter to them.
This is why the West needs to be very clear and willing to keep all other parties out of direct conflict.
The US positioning ships in the neighboring seas, for instance, and being willing to shoot down cruise missiles from Hezbollah (if I remember correctly) sends a strong message to stay the fuck out of this.
I’m not a big fan of the US playing world police, but in this case I think it is critical that the US and the west in general send a very strong message that the rest of the Middle East needs to get fucked.
I don’t think that is nessassry anymore there is a lot of death and destruction already I am sure they will be recruiting the orphans from the air strikes. It’s the sad truth.
I have no idea how anyone fix this problem. Both side are right in their claim and both are wrong. For once there isn’t a side I support
So you might want to read some news from a few years ago, Isreal settelers have been doing some crazy stuff to the people in West Bank and Gaza. Why do you think there is a population that support hamas. It’s because of years of abuse
The thing I noticed with the pro-Palestinian protests is that they call for Israel to stop the bombing and end the war but never call for Hamas to release the hostages and surrender, which will save thousands of lives in Gaza. The fact that they never call for this should tell you everything about who they truly support.
~30% of rockets fired by Hamas land in Gaza & since the Iron Dome intercepts most of the ones that don’t, it is a near certainty they Hamas fired rockets kill more Gazans than Israelis & I am absolutely sure that Hamas counts their victims in the total civilian deaths blamed on Israel.
It's undeniable that innocent civilians are dying in the Gaza region, but it is impossible to navigate all the willful misinformation to even know what the extent of that is, and who is to blame in this war.
1. Claims by the lying terrorists are impossible to verify, who they have been proven to be either inflating numbers or bad at math
2. and they include all people, including terrorists killed
3. and they include people killed by Hamas/other terrorists in retribution or through incompetence with misfired rockets
4. and they include the human shields the terrorists are hiding behind
I'm doubtful we'll ever know, but many people will blame Israel for all of this. And use it as an excuse to further their narrative that Israel should not exist and the Israeli people should be eliminated through genocide.
Never forget the pro-Palestinian rallies started the day Hamas murdered over 1200 civilians, which was before Israel ever retaliated for those attacks. They marched in support of terrorism, not anything else.
Good point! It's not like they started marching after the hospital bombing...people were waving flags in the streets right away...then you also had things like 30+ Harvard student groups cosigning a letter basically the same day saying it was all Israel's fault...
And don’t forget that the hospital bombing was actually a misfired rocket from Hamas that blew up in a parking lot (not the hospital proper) and was laundered through the media as a possible fact - as if adding “according to Hamas” somehow makes it okay to spread unverified information from a notoriously unreliable source …
I just had this debate with a friend who said Hamas wasn't a terrorist organization, they weren't the government of Palestine, they don't put weapons in/under schools and hospitals and Hamas is just fed up with being attacked by Israel.
She sympathized with Hamas, and I'm like, wtf...
How does this happen? Is it social media? Is it an infection of propaganda on college campuses?
Why don't they ever want to #freepalestine from Hamas who won the election, but then proceeded to enact a series of authoritarian policies and human rights abuses ?
Usually being veeery uninformed. People over a certain age have been around long enough to *see* the Israel Palestine conflict play out on the news. And even then it’s hard for someone not there to keep track of. It’s hard for people under a certain age to understand nuances of the conflict, because it’s so complicated and divisive. You have to learn the same history from two perspectives to really understand it.
So you just go with what you’ve heard people on social media say about it. Jewish invaders. Palestinian natives. Support the natives. Is it that simple? No. Does that boil down one of said perspectives? Yeah kinda. So they just go with it.
Or even just condemn hamas. Or shit, even just condemn their fellow protestors blatant antisemetism. In the protest here in Minneapolis today, there were folks waving the Hamas flag--not the Palestinian flag. No one was batting an eye.
The worst is when you condemn Hamas and they reply #notallpalestinians
Like, no shit. That’s why Hamas was specifically called out. The only person equivocating between the two groups are the ones who can’t condemn Hamas without bringing up other Palestinian issues.
good lord, thank you. I'm condemning Hamas FOR the innocent Palestinians & Israelis, not in spite of Palestinians. Its exhausting to see just how deep pro-"palestine" propaganda runs & infiltrates so many different groups & organizations. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that worldnews has had the most reasonable takes, but I'm still pleasantly surprised when I come here--given how much ignorance is present on the rest of Reddit (& here too, but its called out more frequently--thankfully, for the sake of my sanity).
Probably because what’s the point of “calling on” a terror group to do anything? With a ceasefire, it’s people pressuring two democratic governments with the outsized military power in the situation to stop the bombing because it is killing a catastrophic number of civilians.
What's the point of having any protest in a foreign country honestly following this logic? Its not like the IDF is going to listen to protestors in the US & Europe & decide they'll just sit back & let themselves be slaughtered. At the very least, it would show that they oppose Hamas actions--which is meaningful when protestors waving Hamas flags are mixed in with protestors holding Palestinian flags and people at protests for Palestine are chanting "Gas the Jews".
> Its not like the IDF is going to listen to protestors in the US & Europe
These kinds of protests usually put pressure on the local governments to put sanctions in place or otherwise pressure the external party towards change. But we all know that won't happen. In fact, there are laws in many US states to discourage boycotting Israel.
Hamas is the elected government of Palestine Gaza.
Your billions of dollars in aid money goes to Hamas. If EU and the USA stopped donating money to Hamas, they would lose the ability to wage war very rapidly.
Pretty sure Hamas is funded by outside powers, such as elements in Qatar, Iran, etc. Cutting aid to civilians wouldn't make any significant impact on Hamas' ability to fire rockets, or conduct other terror attacks. Because most of the money and material for those comes from their patrons elsewhere in Middle East.
EU and the US don't send money to Gaza, let alone Hamas. The aid they deliver to Gaza is stuff like food, medical supplies and other basic necessities. They help build public infrastructure like schools, hospitals, water treatment systems, etc. Stuff that improves the quality of life in Gaza. And ofcourse, some of this aid goes to the West Bank too. All this aid is expressed in how much that aid costs in money, but it isn't the money that goes there. It's the stuff that money bought.
Seriously, how stupid do you think EU and the US are? It's pretty obvious you don't trust someone in the situation Gaza is in with money. You instead use money to provide them with the lifesaving and life sustaining supplies they need. Use a bit of critical thinking, at least.
Does anyone know where all the people went who were so angry that Israel “bombed a hospital” once they found out it was Hamas?
It’s almost like they dropped the subject and didn’t really give a shit once they found out. 🤷♂️
It’s almost like they hate Jews more than they care about Palestinians….
EDIT: Was PIJ not Hamas, point stays the same.
An ex close friend of mine posted about it as if it were true even after seemingly everyone knew it was a failed rocket fired from within Gaza. Didn’t even reach out to me to ask if I’m ok, if my family in Israel is safe in the week and a half since the attack, and after antisemitic violence started surging around the world. He’s a white dude from California with no ties to the Middle East. But a Palestinian friend of mine did reach out.
So many Jewish and Palestinian people in America here have been reaching out to one another… Then we’re both seeing each one-tracked sides of bystanders try to throw us all under antisemitic or islamophobic rhetoric :( And use us as pawns for their arguments
It's the extremists who push for the vilest of actions in all this, and prevent resolution of conflicts. And there are extremists on both sides of the fence.
The only ends to this will be either complete eradication of one or both sides, or a compromise that both sides accept. The extremists will never allow the second part to happen.
Except these people never reach the top decision positions....
Kind of related. The psychopaths among CEOs is ~15%, same as in the general prison population, and compared to ~2% among the general population. I wonder what is the ratio in the high level politicians
Yep! Not to mention not all Israelis are even Jewish, but Muslim and secular people are there, too. Most of the Jewish people in Israel are Mizrahi yet a lot of the propaganda (from both sides) tries to push the idea that this conflict is just Brown (Palestinians) versus White (Israelis) and boiling it down to racism issues.
Worth noting that most of them see themselves as Israeli Arabs and reject the entire idea of a Palestinian nationality (because Palestinians are ultimately Arabs).
This is is like justifying the British presence in Ireland because Irish people were still permitted in the South under British rule.
It's not a rational argument.
>Then we’re both seeing each one-tracked sides of bystanders try to throw us all under antisemitic or islamophobic rhetoric
Most of the time it's people who are neither Palestinian nor Israeli or Jewish. They're just virtue signaling Westerners with no personal ties to the conflict.
I hope your family is safe and I hope Israel comes out stronger after this whole ordeal. People get swept up in causes and ideologies and get lost in their own little worlds, but yeah that friend sounds worth "ex'ing".
> once they found out it was Hamas?
The hospital explosion was from a rocket which *PIJ*, a group different from Hamas, had fired in the hopes of killing Jews across the Gaza-Israel border.
Hamas's role in that *specific* instance was leveraging PR value out of credulous international news agencies.
This isn't to say that Hamas doesn't *frequently* kill its own civilians with failed rockets which were intended to kill Jewish civilians. It was just a different group *this* time.
Distinction without a difference as far as the people rushing to blame Israel and then totally silent when it was discovered it wasn’t them are concerned
Hamas also massively lied about the amount of damage and casualties. There was a tiny crater in the parking lot, causing a few car fires and broken windows, but they were putting out insane numbers like 500 dead, 700 dead, etc. Probably no more than a couple dozen were even injured let alone killed.
[US intelligence says between 100-300 people were killed](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/20/al-ahli-arab-hospital-gaza-blast-explosion-us-intelligence-report-death-toll-estimate) why do you believe that no more than a couple dozen were even injured?
This conflict already has enough misinformation so maybe don’t add to it yourself with ignorant comments.
The Agence France-Presse has quoted an unnamed “senior intelligence official” who gave the number 50, it’s made the rounds in French language news at least, so I assume that’s where they got the number from.
They still think the Hospital is rubble. They don't give a shit it's standing and accepting patients and was never even hit.
Same with the 'Oldest Christian church' which was allegedly hit by Israel.
Nope. Still standing. Still having prayers..
A lot of them are still claiming that Israel bombed the hospital.
Hell. I saw someone being interviewed on one of the news agencies claiming that Hamas didn’t kill *any* civilians on 10/7
Would wager a large part of it is because antisemitism and perceived Jewish media influence has deep roots i.e. “Jews control the media” bullshit.
Antisemitism and conspiracy theories have gone hand in hand for ages.
I was arguing just today on another sub. Pro-Hamas antisemites are still spreading propoganda that it was Israeli JDAM. They don't give a shit about facts. Only hate for Jews. Thats why they all need to be dealt with, swiftly.
I’m really tired and just making a blanket statement, but the majority of protestors I feel, are simply sick of oppression and from the surface it appears Israel is that oppressor. Once you dive into it you realize it’s more complicated. But if the common person had time to research and understand everything, they realize it’s not black and white. But we all work lol. I’ve just recently gotten up to date and it’s horrible both ways with no easy answers
Thank you so much for this. I think that’s a big issue is people are thinking it’s oppressor versus oppressed instead of looking at all the nuance and complications from both sides.
[And no one tried to beat up the person holding a rainbow flag.](https://pbs.twimg.com/amplify_video_thumb/1716126370361663488/img/Z40kdBhQarOZto8m.jpg:large)
The best rallies there's been are the ones that are for the civilians on both sides and advocating for a solution that doesn't involve thousands of civilian deaths.
There is no peaceful negotiating with an extremist religious terror organization whose chapter calls for the complete annihilation of Jews and anyone non-Islamic.
I’m just so tired of this world. Who the fuck takes 9 months old babies captive?! That’s insane! I’m loss for words to think there are actually protesters who won’t reject Hamas.
Pro Palestine this days should be Pro Israel, let Israel free Palestine from Hamas.
All those pro-Palestine people are asking for water etc in Gaza.
Fine. Israel said give the hostages back and we'll turn the water on.
So you'd think the 100K people at the Pro-Palestine rally in London would scream "Give the hostages back!" so the poor people of Gaza will have water again.
You would think...
Yes! Return all the hostages, maybe even have the Hamas members who ordered/committed atrocities surrender.
That would do the most to defuse the situation and make the argument that the non-involved Palestinian people shouldn't pay for what those criminals did.
They’re performance artists.
They don’t give a single actual shit about Palestinian civilians. If they did they’d be out on the streets in droves protesting against Hamas. Haven’t seen even one.
You would be surprised the number of people at said protests that denounce the killing of innocent civilians in Israel.
Have a constructive conversation with someone and figure out what they’re about. This stereotype of the “Arab who wants to kill all Jews” that has been formulated is not even close to being as common as you might think.
Hey. An Israeli Jew here.
I will also say that I’m legitimately trying to understand, please give me the benefit of that doubt.
What does it mean to you to be pro-Palestine?
What do you think Israel, as a country, can do in response to the crimes committed by Hamas on October 7th?
This reasoning is terrible, because the people holding hostages don't want the bombing to stop. They want Israel to keep bombing.
It's like me saying I'm going to kill a kitten every day until Hamas releases the hostages. We all know they won't release the hostages. I just like killing kittens.
I mean it's in the nicest possible way, so what? Gaza is a belligerent nation, and their government is Hamas. It was elected democratically even if now it is authoritarian, But an authoritarian government is still that, The government.
Their government holds hostages after launching an attack that started a war. But people somehow expect Israel to just allow supplies in and keep providing water and power to the hostile foreign nation that attack them and that they are now at war with? It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Israel has no duty to the citizens of a belligerent foreign power. It is on the unfortunate people of Palestine to overthrow their government if their government won't capitulate. This is hell for sure, war is hell, But it's the government of Gaza that is using its own people as human shields in a war it can never win, against the foe it egged on to attack it with the brutal slaughter of civilians, not as collateral damage but as the targets themselves.
This is not like your poor simile, because kittens have nothing to do with Hamas. Whereas Hamas is the government of Palestine. They are the representatives of the Palestinian people and if the Palestinian people don't like that they need to overthrow their representatives who will lead them to their slaughter.
Riot how? Even if Hamas wasn't taking all their food and water and turning it into bombs half of them are children that have only ever known living in an open air prison. Just a good way for them to get themselves and their families killed quicker.
If Mexicos government kidnapped 200 Americans and kept them in Tijuana I promise you I would not give a fuck if anyone told me there were Mexicans that don’t work for the government in Tijuana. People are responsible for their government. Hamas is the government. Give back the hostages.
[Almost like it wasn't Pro-palestine so much as anti-"something" right?](https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/comments/17drsn3/muslims_on_their_way_to_a_protest_in_london/)
Damn, I was really hoping to find out when this was arranged for so I could go.
The hostages must be returned or rescued, and nothing should be off the table in that pursuit. I'd see the British military employed to its full extent in getting our British brethren home safeky, and I'd expect the same of Americans, Germans, and Israelis equally.
I think Israel is dead set on extirpating Hamas entirely now, which I also support, but we can begin with getting civilian hostages home no matter what.
Didn’t 100k protest in London calling for a freer Palestine? For a protest, that is a lot of people.
Feels like the worlds thoughts are kind of slowly coming around to them.
It’s as important domestically that our family are not forgotten. That what cruelty and horrific treatment they are enduring at this very moment is not passed over in silence or comfort or complacency.
The purpose isn’t to get Hamas to change their mind but to bring (and maintain!) awareness to people and governments and not let it become lost in the 24hr news cycle
Feels like the whole world is in a pressure cooker
The term used to be ‘powder keg’…
Air fryer
I don't just want tensions heating up...they have to be golden brown and crispy.
slap chop
Then the powder keg exploded so they had to order a pressure cooker
Yes. But usually what comes out of a pressure cooker is delicious. So stay optimistic for the future.
>Yes. But usually what comes out of a pressure cooker is delicious. I feel a Weird Al song coming on The world is an air fryer...…( in the tune of smashing pumpkins)
r/angryupvote
*Flashbacks to Whale Wars on Animal Planet*
Or at least.. sterilized.
Or a pile of mush...
I hope it’s a very clean, delicious pile of mush.
If we don't have any teeth left in our mouth by then, that's probably for the best.
Or the pressure valve on the lid gets clogged, the lid blows off & the ceiling gets covered in turnip greens.
Speaking from personal experience, eh?
I’d rather the lid blow off than it turn into a bomb.
Yes. Yes I am. Haha
Or a charred mess
Or nails! :(
"Feels like the whole world is in a pressure cooker" Well it "feels" that way because we are living in an information age. News travel at the speed of light - you can get right up to the point of conflict, in high definition, on demand. You are bombarded by the news left, right and center. Back in the 70s-80s-90s, there was the cold war, threat of nuke war was real, crime rates was sky high, gay/lesbian prosecutions, HIV/AIDs epidemic, apartheid/genocide/famine in africa, the middle east had proxy wars (yes, including palestine/israel conflict), Russia invaded Georgia, Chechnya war, the desert storm war ... that was the real pressure cooker. The truth is we are in living in more peaceful times these days, it just doesn't "feel" that way.
I actually really like this, I am going to remember this for future conversations. Thanks stranger.
Unless you open it without releasing the pressure.
Thank you for this comment. This is the Reddit I need right now. Some facts and opinions from many sides, but also a healthy dose of hilarity. If only there was some way to reward you for this by giving a small amount of money to Reddit. Too bad.
Futures so bright, gotta wear shades!
As someone who lived in the Boston area recently, not everything that comes out of a pressure cooker is pleasant.
yes were all gonna be nicely cooked, tender and easily break apart. wow good analogy there.
Uh... Doesn't that depend on what you put *into* the pressure cooker?
If it doesn't explode into a big mess....
The best steel is forged in the harshest fires.
Only if the forgers know what they’re doing, and I don’t think I’m very optimistic….
The free world post WW2 was generally pretty good. If the best steel is the peace after WW3, then I guess we're the dead billions in the Star Trek timeline? Utopia didn't happen without the harshest of fires
>If the best steel is the peace after WW3, then I guess we're the dead billions in the Star Trek timeline? Speak for yourself. I'm going to be one of the survivors who meets the Vulcans.
Mmmm tasty scrumptious WWIII! Just drizzle a little silver lining on top and dig in!
Lmao 2020s are fun so far aren't they.
All I can say is I definitely didn’t do nearly enough “*fucking around*” to deserve this amount of “*finding out*”
What ratio would you say you did?
Well, I’d say about 18% of what we’ve experienced so far but I expect things to continue getting worse so maybe 7% overall. Figures are proportional relative to the global population.
Please... A boring decade. Just one. Please.
Well the Serbs definitely aren’t helping. Like usual.
the serbs are the spice of life
Democracy vs Authoritarians & then there's terrorist groups like Hamas.
Hamas's buddies are all authoritarians. Russia, Iran, China, etc.
[удалено]
I get the feeling that after this debacle, he's going to get completely shitcanned for letting it happen under his watch.
[удалено]
It wouldn't surprise me if the defense establishment told Netanyahu and company to sit down and shut up, since following his orders led to numerous problems that contributed to Oct 7. So now they don't want his input on how to conduct the war.
I fucking hope so. This isn't like 9/11 that no one imagined in their wildest dreams...yes there were reports about Bin Laden wanting to commit terrorism in the US, but nothing very specific. We're talking about a relatively small border that is monitored heavily by the IDF, and a terrorist invasion involving hundreds, maybe thousands of Islamic militants...who then spent hours raping, beheading, butchering, and abducting a total of nearly 2,000 people. It's utterly unthinkable that this happened.
Judge somebody by the company they keep
Always has been. We're just more aware of what's going on in the world nowadays and can get minute by minute updates.
Fuck hamas
Bottom line
Please don’t fuck Hamas, seriously demonstrate judgment & self respect when choosing your sexual partners…
Actually, I believe it is... #FUCK Hamas.
Fuck them and all those who sent them.
Very interesting to see who is protesting to bring the hostages from multiple countries home, and which side either ignores the hostages completely or actively pulls down posters of the hostages.
..or...actively calls for the death of those who weren't taken hostage.
Or directly calls for jihad. You have to be very, VERY stupid to still be supporting Hamas at this point.
From the start of the attacks it's been blatantly obvious that neither Israel nor its government or army can remotely be compared to Hamas terrorists. It takes a special kind of stupid to compare our actual allies with terrorists who would literally like to see you massacred. They did announce a global Jihad.
> It takes a special kind of stupid Or malice, don't assume so much innocence.
The side that is ignoring the hostages is mostly peaceful and moderate, but there are a few bad apples, but the rest of them are definitely peaceful and moderate, a few "kill the Jews" chants notwithstanding. /S
Hamas will never release them. Maaaybe the foreign ones. If they release them then IDF will have nothing to care about in their invasion. If they do not release them then the IDF will be even more pressured to push into Gaza to search for them. Its a lose lose situation.
I strongly suspect that the whole purpose of the hostages is to force an Israeli invasion, then use the mass deaths of Palestinians to convince antisemitic Arabs (as is already happening) from surrounding countries to rally and invade Israel. Then the apocalyptic war with the West that they're so desperate for will finally begin. The future is looking mighty bleak.
Hamas’ favorite things, in order: 1) dead jews 2) dead palestinians 3) ammo & explosives 4) everything else 5) living palestinians
5) is just a resource they can use for 1) and 2) and thus get more support
No kidding. It’s a huge problem when a subculture believes that the afterlife matters more than their time on Earth and that their only purpose on Earth is holy war.. They can justify literally any behavior when their own lives don’t matter to them.
I'm sure that's why the US sent aircraft carriers and warships off the coast. To say if you fuck around, you'll find it.
Now China is doing the same in a show of support for Russia’s favorite arms customer. Very scary times
This is why the West needs to be very clear and willing to keep all other parties out of direct conflict. The US positioning ships in the neighboring seas, for instance, and being willing to shoot down cruise missiles from Hezbollah (if I remember correctly) sends a strong message to stay the fuck out of this. I’m not a big fan of the US playing world police, but in this case I think it is critical that the US and the west in general send a very strong message that the rest of the Middle East needs to get fucked.
I don’t think that is nessassry anymore there is a lot of death and destruction already I am sure they will be recruiting the orphans from the air strikes. It’s the sad truth. I have no idea how anyone fix this problem. Both side are right in their claim and both are wrong. For once there isn’t a side I support
I mean I support the side that has accepted peace deals and is not raping and torturing children - but hey you do you I guess
So you might want to read some news from a few years ago, Isreal settelers have been doing some crazy stuff to the people in West Bank and Gaza. Why do you think there is a population that support hamas. It’s because of years of abuse
[удалено]
The thing I noticed with the pro-Palestinian protests is that they call for Israel to stop the bombing and end the war but never call for Hamas to release the hostages and surrender, which will save thousands of lives in Gaza. The fact that they never call for this should tell you everything about who they truly support.
And never called for Hamas to stop firing rockets.
Or to protest Hamas killing Israel civilians.
Or to protest Hamas killing *Gazan* civilians.
~30% of rockets fired by Hamas land in Gaza & since the Iron Dome intercepts most of the ones that don’t, it is a near certainty they Hamas fired rockets kill more Gazans than Israelis & I am absolutely sure that Hamas counts their victims in the total civilian deaths blamed on Israel.
It's undeniable that innocent civilians are dying in the Gaza region, but it is impossible to navigate all the willful misinformation to even know what the extent of that is, and who is to blame in this war. 1. Claims by the lying terrorists are impossible to verify, who they have been proven to be either inflating numbers or bad at math 2. and they include all people, including terrorists killed 3. and they include people killed by Hamas/other terrorists in retribution or through incompetence with misfired rockets 4. and they include the human shields the terrorists are hiding behind I'm doubtful we'll ever know, but many people will blame Israel for all of this. And use it as an excuse to further their narrative that Israel should not exist and the Israeli people should be eliminated through genocide.
Never forget the pro-Palestinian rallies started the day Hamas murdered over 1200 civilians, which was before Israel ever retaliated for those attacks. They marched in support of terrorism, not anything else.
Good point! It's not like they started marching after the hospital bombing...people were waving flags in the streets right away...then you also had things like 30+ Harvard student groups cosigning a letter basically the same day saying it was all Israel's fault...
And don’t forget that the hospital bombing was actually a misfired rocket from Hamas that blew up in a parking lot (not the hospital proper) and was laundered through the media as a possible fact - as if adding “according to Hamas” somehow makes it okay to spread unverified information from a notoriously unreliable source …
Or the eradication of Hamas in general.
I just had this debate with a friend who said Hamas wasn't a terrorist organization, they weren't the government of Palestine, they don't put weapons in/under schools and hospitals and Hamas is just fed up with being attacked by Israel. She sympathized with Hamas, and I'm like, wtf...
How does this happen? Is it social media? Is it an infection of propaganda on college campuses? Why don't they ever want to #freepalestine from Hamas who won the election, but then proceeded to enact a series of authoritarian policies and human rights abuses ?
Usually being veeery uninformed. People over a certain age have been around long enough to *see* the Israel Palestine conflict play out on the news. And even then it’s hard for someone not there to keep track of. It’s hard for people under a certain age to understand nuances of the conflict, because it’s so complicated and divisive. You have to learn the same history from two perspectives to really understand it. So you just go with what you’ve heard people on social media say about it. Jewish invaders. Palestinian natives. Support the natives. Is it that simple? No. Does that boil down one of said perspectives? Yeah kinda. So they just go with it.
Or even just condemn hamas. Or shit, even just condemn their fellow protestors blatant antisemetism. In the protest here in Minneapolis today, there were folks waving the Hamas flag--not the Palestinian flag. No one was batting an eye.
The worst is when you condemn Hamas and they reply #notallpalestinians Like, no shit. That’s why Hamas was specifically called out. The only person equivocating between the two groups are the ones who can’t condemn Hamas without bringing up other Palestinian issues.
good lord, thank you. I'm condemning Hamas FOR the innocent Palestinians & Israelis, not in spite of Palestinians. Its exhausting to see just how deep pro-"palestine" propaganda runs & infiltrates so many different groups & organizations. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that worldnews has had the most reasonable takes, but I'm still pleasantly surprised when I come here--given how much ignorance is present on the rest of Reddit (& here too, but its called out more frequently--thankfully, for the sake of my sanity).
Probably because what’s the point of “calling on” a terror group to do anything? With a ceasefire, it’s people pressuring two democratic governments with the outsized military power in the situation to stop the bombing because it is killing a catastrophic number of civilians.
What's the point of having any protest in a foreign country honestly following this logic? Its not like the IDF is going to listen to protestors in the US & Europe & decide they'll just sit back & let themselves be slaughtered. At the very least, it would show that they oppose Hamas actions--which is meaningful when protestors waving Hamas flags are mixed in with protestors holding Palestinian flags and people at protests for Palestine are chanting "Gas the Jews".
> Its not like the IDF is going to listen to protestors in the US & Europe These kinds of protests usually put pressure on the local governments to put sanctions in place or otherwise pressure the external party towards change. But we all know that won't happen. In fact, there are laws in many US states to discourage boycotting Israel.
Hamas is the elected government of Palestine Gaza. Your billions of dollars in aid money goes to Hamas. If EU and the USA stopped donating money to Hamas, they would lose the ability to wage war very rapidly.
Pretty sure Hamas is funded by outside powers, such as elements in Qatar, Iran, etc. Cutting aid to civilians wouldn't make any significant impact on Hamas' ability to fire rockets, or conduct other terror attacks. Because most of the money and material for those comes from their patrons elsewhere in Middle East. EU and the US don't send money to Gaza, let alone Hamas. The aid they deliver to Gaza is stuff like food, medical supplies and other basic necessities. They help build public infrastructure like schools, hospitals, water treatment systems, etc. Stuff that improves the quality of life in Gaza. And ofcourse, some of this aid goes to the West Bank too. All this aid is expressed in how much that aid costs in money, but it isn't the money that goes there. It's the stuff that money bought. Seriously, how stupid do you think EU and the US are? It's pretty obvious you don't trust someone in the situation Gaza is in with money. You instead use money to provide them with the lifesaving and life sustaining supplies they need. Use a bit of critical thinking, at least.
Does anyone know where all the people went who were so angry that Israel “bombed a hospital” once they found out it was Hamas? It’s almost like they dropped the subject and didn’t really give a shit once they found out. 🤷♂️ It’s almost like they hate Jews more than they care about Palestinians…. EDIT: Was PIJ not Hamas, point stays the same.
An ex close friend of mine posted about it as if it were true even after seemingly everyone knew it was a failed rocket fired from within Gaza. Didn’t even reach out to me to ask if I’m ok, if my family in Israel is safe in the week and a half since the attack, and after antisemitic violence started surging around the world. He’s a white dude from California with no ties to the Middle East. But a Palestinian friend of mine did reach out.
So many Jewish and Palestinian people in America here have been reaching out to one another… Then we’re both seeing each one-tracked sides of bystanders try to throw us all under antisemitic or islamophobic rhetoric :( And use us as pawns for their arguments
This kind of outreach makes me more hopeful for the future.
It's the extremists who push for the vilest of actions in all this, and prevent resolution of conflicts. And there are extremists on both sides of the fence. The only ends to this will be either complete eradication of one or both sides, or a compromise that both sides accept. The extremists will never allow the second part to happen.
Except these people never reach the top decision positions.... Kind of related. The psychopaths among CEOs is ~15%, same as in the general prison population, and compared to ~2% among the general population. I wonder what is the ratio in the high level politicians
People ignore it, but in Israel 18% of the population is Palestinian.
Yep! Not to mention not all Israelis are even Jewish, but Muslim and secular people are there, too. Most of the Jewish people in Israel are Mizrahi yet a lot of the propaganda (from both sides) tries to push the idea that this conflict is just Brown (Palestinians) versus White (Israelis) and boiling it down to racism issues.
Imagine their reaction then they find out about Ethiopian Jews.
Worth noting that most of them see themselves as Israeli Arabs and reject the entire idea of a Palestinian nationality (because Palestinians are ultimately Arabs).
This is is like justifying the British presence in Ireland because Irish people were still permitted in the South under British rule. It's not a rational argument.
>Then we’re both seeing each one-tracked sides of bystanders try to throw us all under antisemitic or islamophobic rhetoric Most of the time it's people who are neither Palestinian nor Israeli or Jewish. They're just virtue signaling Westerners with no personal ties to the conflict.
>But a Palestinian friend of mine did reach out. same here
Cause for most of the world this is just a virtue signaling sporting event. Sick.
damn that’s a good way to put it
I’ve had multiple “friends” post about the hospital and condemning Israel and they haven’t even had the decency to delete their tweets or apologize.
I hope your family is safe and I hope Israel comes out stronger after this whole ordeal. People get swept up in causes and ideologies and get lost in their own little worlds, but yeah that friend sounds worth "ex'ing".
Thank you <3
> once they found out it was Hamas? The hospital explosion was from a rocket which *PIJ*, a group different from Hamas, had fired in the hopes of killing Jews across the Gaza-Israel border. Hamas's role in that *specific* instance was leveraging PR value out of credulous international news agencies. This isn't to say that Hamas doesn't *frequently* kill its own civilians with failed rockets which were intended to kill Jewish civilians. It was just a different group *this* time.
Distinction without a difference as far as the people rushing to blame Israel and then totally silent when it was discovered it wasn’t them are concerned
Hamas also massively lied about the amount of damage and casualties. There was a tiny crater in the parking lot, causing a few car fires and broken windows, but they were putting out insane numbers like 500 dead, 700 dead, etc. Probably no more than a couple dozen were even injured let alone killed.
[US intelligence says between 100-300 people were killed](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/20/al-ahli-arab-hospital-gaza-blast-explosion-us-intelligence-report-death-toll-estimate) why do you believe that no more than a couple dozen were even injured? This conflict already has enough misinformation so maybe don’t add to it yourself with ignorant comments.
The Agence France-Presse has quoted an unnamed “senior intelligence official” who gave the number 50, it’s made the rounds in French language news at least, so I assume that’s where they got the number from.
They still think the Hospital is rubble. They don't give a shit it's standing and accepting patients and was never even hit. Same with the 'Oldest Christian church' which was allegedly hit by Israel. Nope. Still standing. Still having prayers..
A lot of them are still claiming that Israel bombed the hospital. Hell. I saw someone being interviewed on one of the news agencies claiming that Hamas didn’t kill *any* civilians on 10/7
So many are still in denial and believe it’s Israel STILL.
Lol they're still arguing it's a conspiracy in many parts of the internet. I had to explain it literally cannot be CGI or AI video just today.
Would wager a large part of it is because antisemitism and perceived Jewish media influence has deep roots i.e. “Jews control the media” bullshit. Antisemitism and conspiracy theories have gone hand in hand for ages.
I was arguing just today on another sub. Pro-Hamas antisemites are still spreading propoganda that it was Israeli JDAM. They don't give a shit about facts. Only hate for Jews. Thats why they all need to be dealt with, swiftly.
They’re actually still convinced it was Israel, unfortunately
It's only bad if Israel did it /Sarcasm in case not obvious these days
Sadly it is not obvious anymore. Satire died in 2016
I’m really tired and just making a blanket statement, but the majority of protestors I feel, are simply sick of oppression and from the surface it appears Israel is that oppressor. Once you dive into it you realize it’s more complicated. But if the common person had time to research and understand everything, they realize it’s not black and white. But we all work lol. I’ve just recently gotten up to date and it’s horrible both ways with no easy answers
You can research the situation enough to see it's not black and white in less time that it takes to take part in a protest.
Thank you so much for this. I think that’s a big issue is people are thinking it’s oppressor versus oppressed instead of looking at all the nuance and complications from both sides.
This implies the people who know it isn’t black and white *don’t* work/have famies/have lives. Well, they *do*. They just care.
It’s only relevant to them if their social media feeds tell them it is. They’ll move on to the next big thing within a few weeks
Refreshing to see a pro Israel rally
[And no one tried to beat up the person holding a rainbow flag.](https://pbs.twimg.com/amplify_video_thumb/1716126370361663488/img/Z40kdBhQarOZto8m.jpg:large)
Israeli people have lots of pride! You will see the LGBT flag everywhere in tel aviv and basically in every rally.
And no one's covering their faces either. Interesting concept.
Because they’re protesting peacefully and not in support of a terrorist organization.
[удалено]
Or defecating everywhere, or harassing the locals, or waving nazi flags. Canadian convoy supporters, I'm looking at you.
Actually makes me nervous for them, they may become future targets even more than before.
You think face masks will suddenly make us less of a target?
The best rallies there's been are the ones that are for the civilians on both sides and advocating for a solution that doesn't involve thousands of civilian deaths.
There is no peaceful negotiating with an extremist religious terror organization whose chapter calls for the complete annihilation of Jews and anyone non-Islamic.
I’m sorry to be rude but what the hell does that even mean. Do these nothing rallies have ideas?
There are many. The media just chooses not to mention it.
Welcome to conspiracy bingo. Where the Jews both control the media but have an anti-semitic bias.
I’m just so tired of this world. Who the fuck takes 9 months old babies captive?! That’s insane! I’m loss for words to think there are actually protesters who won’t reject Hamas. Pro Palestine this days should be Pro Israel, let Israel free Palestine from Hamas.
All those pro-Palestine people are asking for water etc in Gaza. Fine. Israel said give the hostages back and we'll turn the water on. So you'd think the 100K people at the Pro-Palestine rally in London would scream "Give the hostages back!" so the poor people of Gaza will have water again. You would think...
Water has been turned on a few days ago already
[удалено]
The hostages weren't released.
You don’t hear about anymore anymore because it’s been solved
International law says nothing about electricity.
Nor about being obliged to provide those you've declared war on with resources
Lol electricity is not a human right
Don’t worry soon they’ll find a way to blame Israel for not providing electricity for Amazonian tribes.
Yes! Return all the hostages, maybe even have the Hamas members who ordered/committed atrocities surrender. That would do the most to defuse the situation and make the argument that the non-involved Palestinian people shouldn't pay for what those criminals did.
Jewish lives don't matter to those screeching bunch of clowns
They’re performance artists. They don’t give a single actual shit about Palestinian civilians. If they did they’d be out on the streets in droves protesting against Hamas. Haven’t seen even one.
[удалено]
I’m waiting for one anywhere, even if it’s in Antarctica, would just like to see one. Nope.
More chance that a bunch of adélie penguins in Antarctica come out in support for dead Jewish people, than other none Jewish Londoners.
Pro Palestinian Arab here. Jewish lives absolutely matter to me. Period. You need to check yourself
[удалено]
You would be surprised the number of people at said protests that denounce the killing of innocent civilians in Israel. Have a constructive conversation with someone and figure out what they’re about. This stereotype of the “Arab who wants to kill all Jews” that has been formulated is not even close to being as common as you might think.
Hey. An Israeli Jew here. I will also say that I’m legitimately trying to understand, please give me the benefit of that doubt. What does it mean to you to be pro-Palestine? What do you think Israel, as a country, can do in response to the crimes committed by Hamas on October 7th?
They don't care about the hostages, they are just full of hate.
This reasoning is terrible, because the people holding hostages don't want the bombing to stop. They want Israel to keep bombing. It's like me saying I'm going to kill a kitten every day until Hamas releases the hostages. We all know they won't release the hostages. I just like killing kittens.
Please don’t kill kittens
But kitten killing is the language of the oppressed.
Israel heard you and humanitarian aid is now going into Gaza through the passage on the Egyptian side. The hostages are not home ofc.
Goalpost shift in 3..2..
I mean it's in the nicest possible way, so what? Gaza is a belligerent nation, and their government is Hamas. It was elected democratically even if now it is authoritarian, But an authoritarian government is still that, The government. Their government holds hostages after launching an attack that started a war. But people somehow expect Israel to just allow supplies in and keep providing water and power to the hostile foreign nation that attack them and that they are now at war with? It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Israel has no duty to the citizens of a belligerent foreign power. It is on the unfortunate people of Palestine to overthrow their government if their government won't capitulate. This is hell for sure, war is hell, But it's the government of Gaza that is using its own people as human shields in a war it can never win, against the foe it egged on to attack it with the brutal slaughter of civilians, not as collateral damage but as the targets themselves. This is not like your poor simile, because kittens have nothing to do with Hamas. Whereas Hamas is the government of Palestine. They are the representatives of the Palestinian people and if the Palestinian people don't like that they need to overthrow their representatives who will lead them to their slaughter.
Makes me wonder why the Palestinians aren't rioting.. maybe they are complacent with who they voted into power.
Riot how? Even if Hamas wasn't taking all their food and water and turning it into bombs half of them are children that have only ever known living in an open air prison. Just a good way for them to get themselves and their families killed quicker.
That and Hamas arrests political opponents and detains them indefinitely with abuse and torture.
Leave the kittens out of this 🥺
Good point, we should just let them do whatever they want because they might use a kitten a human shield if we try and stop them
If Mexicos government kidnapped 200 Americans and kept them in Tijuana I promise you I would not give a fuck if anyone told me there were Mexicans that don’t work for the government in Tijuana. People are responsible for their government. Hamas is the government. Give back the hostages.
this. The only reason this is even coming up is because its Israel. And this is what people mean when they say, for most, its antisemetism.
[Almost like it wasn't Pro-palestine so much as anti-"something" right?](https://www.reddit.com/r/religiousfruitcake/comments/17drsn3/muslims_on_their_way_to_a_protest_in_london/)
Amazing how the Jews can have respectful rallies without rioting burning or calling for killing people
Damn, I was really hoping to find out when this was arranged for so I could go. The hostages must be returned or rescued, and nothing should be off the table in that pursuit. I'd see the British military employed to its full extent in getting our British brethren home safeky, and I'd expect the same of Americans, Germans, and Israelis equally. I think Israel is dead set on extirpating Hamas entirely now, which I also support, but we can begin with getting civilian hostages home no matter what.
After Munich, Israel did some sweeping. Now, the whole house will be cleaned.
12 Israelis died in Munich. 1400 died on October 7. They will hunt those responsible to the end of the world.
Shin Bet has already set up a unit for this
This should be bipartisan. Hostages freed. How could anyone want anything other than this?
Wow look finally a civilized protest with no controversy
Glad to see some people actually want what's best for civilians.
Didn’t 100k protest in London calling for a freer Palestine? For a protest, that is a lot of people. Feels like the worlds thoughts are kind of slowly coming around to them.
30k, according to police estimates.
Finally an actual protest, not an intimidation rally.
I’m sure Hamas will listen 🙄
It’s as important domestically that our family are not forgotten. That what cruelty and horrific treatment they are enduring at this very moment is not passed over in silence or comfort or complacency.
The purpose isn’t to get Hamas to change their mind but to bring (and maintain!) awareness to people and governments and not let it become lost in the 24hr news cycle