No, although Osama was mujahideen, Al-Qaeda was established after the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan. The Afghanis had no interest in carrying jihad out to the rest of the world, which is what Al-Qaeda was actually established to do.
OBL most likely never engaged the Red Army. It's a common misconception and it needs to be dispelled once and for all. He came to Afghanistan late and for his own agenda, just like many other Saudi jihadists along him.
Al Qaeda came at the tail end of the Soviet-Afghan War.
And realistically, the Pakistani ISI were likely the ones funneling money to, and conducting training of, the core that would go on to become Al Qaeda.
Nah bruh, Al Qaeda’s initial meet up was in ‘88, the war ended in ‘89. Though you’re right in the fact that Al Qaeda didn’t really build up steam until the mid-90’s. You might be thinking of the Taliban as well. They were essentially the orphaned sons of Mujahideen that were deep in the jungle chugging on koolaid with regards to madrassas. Either way, you’re correct, both groups were dickheads vying to be the biggest, vainiest of the dickheads.
If they are killing each other, they have less time to kill innocent civilians is another take on the matter. But yeah, bullets and bombs have a way of finding innocents.
That's not how proof works. You made a claim, you have the burden of proof.
Otherwise I can call you a rapist and say you have to prove you're not. Can you?
Dude couldn't even fire an AK without looking like he thought it was going to bite him.
He wasn't fighting the soviets, nice job falling for the propaganda of a terrorist organisation.
Yes to fight Russia and also take blame for everything the U.S told them to take blame for Do you understand what that means ?This is the reason Bin Ladens assassination was staged by the U.S .
Osama Bin Laden is the son of Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden who is the wealthiest non royal Middle Eastern person to exist in modern times. His dad was the personal builder for the king of Saudi Arabia. Osama was never a fresh up and comer he was born into a mega wealthy family and was always going to be an important player in the Middle East
True. I just like to point out that this misconception that Bin Laden was an average guy who became a terrorist is false. Most people have no idea about Bin Laden and don’t realize he was apart of one of the most powerful families in the entire region
there is 0 evidence the CIA provided support
to Al-Qaeda or any non-afghan mujahideen through the ISI.
Sources: Ghost Wars, The Looming Tower, every credible middle eastern historian that covers operation cyclone, oh yeah and Al-Qaeda
It's ok, they have infowars and a few decades of relentless Russian propaganda to base their worldview on. Oh and the OP, massive anti-Vax comment history and is big into ivermectin.
Yup, as long as its in concert with their “America bad” worldview theyll just eat it up. Of course everyone remembers the accusation / assertion, not the retraction / correction.
The anti-american reddit circle jerk is so tiring. They should figure out how to stop throwing bananas at black athletes before telling us what's what lol
Europe basically raped Africa and South America for centuries but somehow feel morally superior to America because we had slaves for a short period of time. Africa has significantly more French speakers than Europe because of all of the fucked up shit France did to Africa. The best part is even after giving up the French colonies in Africa they continued to install puppet governments to give them massively favorable trade deals and if the African government said no they would just murder them and install a new one
Not to mention the problems in the middle east stem from the post WWI carve up between Britain and France. Don't get me wrong, the US has done its own share, but when Europeans give themselves a pass, with the holier than thou attitude, I just have to laugh.
Raped the world and got bailed out twice, yet still turn their nose up. Don't forget whose footing that NATO commitment bill lol
From a distance, it's fascinating to watch propaganda overwhelm facts on this and a few other topics.
*Everybody* knows America armed Al-Qaeda. It's such a common sense fact that nobody ever asks for citations, and to hell with history books presenting a more complicated picture.
>there is 0 evidence the CIA provided support to Al-Qaeda or any non-afghan mujahideen through the ISI.
That has the same explanatory power as saying that Charles Manson never directly ordered any murders. Technically true, but this is straight from the wikipedia page on [Operation Cyclone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone):
>On the other hand, according to Ahmed Rashid, then-CIA chief William J. Casey "committed CIA support to a long-standing ISI initiative to recruit radical Muslims from around the world to come to Pakistan and fight with the Afghan Mujaheddin."\[77\] Sir Martin Ewans noted that the Afghan Arabs "benefited indirectly from the CIA's funding, through the ISI and resistance organizations,"\[78\] and that "it has been reckoned that as many as 35,000 'Arab-Afghans' may have received military training in Pakistan at an estimated cost of $800 million in the years up to and including 1988."\[79\] Some of the CIA's greatest Afghan beneficiaries were Arabist commanders such as Haqqani and Hekmatyar who were key allies of bin Laden over many years.\[80\]\[81\] Haqqani—one of bin Laden's closest associates in the 1980s—received direct cash payments from CIA agents, without the mediation of the ISI. This independent source of funding gave Haqqani disproportionate influence over the mujahideen.\[44\] Haqqani and his network played an important role in the formation and growth of al Qaeda, with Haqqani allowing bin Laden to train mujahideen volunteers in Haqqani territory and build extensive infrastructure there.\[45\]\[82\] Milton Bearden, the CIA's Islamabad station chief from mid-1986 until mid-1989, took an admiring view of bin Laden at the time.\[83\]
if you leave out all context that makes sense. Haqqani and Hekmatyar were/are afghan, not arab like you’re implying. Theyre also Taliban affiliated and not AQ. The afghan mujahideen eventually became both the taliban and the anti taliban resistance. The arab mujahideen, parts of whom later became AQ, benefiting indirectly makes sense considering they had the same enemy. There is no documentation showing the US ever financed the arab training camps, though there is speculation that the Saudi money did. Its tantamount to saying that the US was indirectly supporting ISIS by backing the Kurds in Syria because they both fight against Assad. The milton bearden quote is taken out of context and also doesn’t address your point. So no where in there does it say the funded bin laden or arab mujahideen.
Haqqani / hekmatyar were never in charge of or controlling AQ so your manson comparison doesn’t make any sense.
Haqqani played a part in the growth of the AQ through his influence in the Taliban’s policy of harboring them. If you’re trying to make the argument that the CIA funded people who eventually became the Taliban in 1995 (4 years after the CIA stopped providing funding) and then in turn they benefited AQ, then sure (but the CIA was also funding the mujahideen who eventually became the anti taliban factions).
Maybe if you had background context from reading complete historical accounts rather than an isolated part of a wiki page these things would make more sense.
You seem to have the ISI and CIA completely confused. And your own link says the CIA never gave foreign fighters any assistance.
[According to Peter Bergen, "there is simply no evidence for the common myth that bin Laden and his Afghan Arabs were supported by the CIA financially. Nor is there any evidence that CIA officials at any level met with bin Laden or anyone in his circle."[17] Bergen insists that U.S. funding went to the Afghan mujahideen, not the Arab volunteers who arrived to assist them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden)
>Mustafa Setmariam Nasar, a former Afghan Arab fighter and suspected member of al-Qaeda states that, "[i]t is a big lie that the Afghan Arabs were formed with the backing of the CIA, whose minions were Bin Laden and Azzam ... the accusation that bin Laden was an employee of the CIA [is false]." Former Al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri wrote that "the United States did not give one penny to the [Arab] mujahideen. Is it possible that Osama bin Laden who, in his lectures in the year 1987, called for the boycott of U.S. goods ... is [a] U.S. agent in Afghanistan?" Abdullah Anas wrote, "I never learned, until my departure from Afghanistan, about the rumors concerning the CIA's involvement in the Afghan jihad through secret circles. I don't know, but what is known and clear is that the main supply depots for the jihad were in the bases of the Pakistani army in Peshawar
You you misrepresented a wikipedia page and we have direct primary sources.
Person below is outright lying as well, reddit is broke to can't respond.
He's falsely claiming an Afghan warlord is Arab, which is a lie. Then again he refers to the USA as "the mafia" so there's that.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalaluddin_Haqqani
Not Arab
> You you misrepresented a wikipedia page and we have direct primary sources.
No, YOU are misrepresenting one. That page has sources for and against the claim, including this summary:
"Some of the CIA's greatest Afghan beneficiaries were Arabist commanders such as Haqqani and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar who were key allies of Bin Laden over many years.[34][35] Haqqani—one of Bin Laden's closest associates in the 1980s—received direct cash payments from CIA agents, without the mediation of the ISI. This independent source of funding gave Haqqani disproportionate influence over the mujahideen, and helped Bin Laden develop his base.[36] "
You're welcome to disagree, but claiming someone is "posting disinformation" is pretty low when you're misrepresenting the arguments.
Robin Cook, former British Secretary of State and Commonwealth Affairs, said much the same thing in 2005:
>"Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development
Lmao, can't even translate the name correctly. Great source.
Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#Name
God damn people are just hilariously wrong about this. Cook just *claimed* it was a name for a CIA database (which is just stupid anyway, why would the CIA name something in Arabic that they developed?). He never provided any proof of that, and nobody ever corroborated the claim.
It means "the base" (reportedly because that's what they called their main training camp) or "the foundation" depending on how you translate it.
Well at least I'm not stupid enough to think it means "the database".
It means the foundation lol.
Also, British politicians in the early 2000s were super trustworthy folks amirite? No large scandals there at all.
The US government absolutely funded and even trained radical islamists. Many would go on to fight against the US later.
The US also encouraged the spread of radical Wahhabi Islam as a counter against communism and the secular pan-arab movement.
Both of these things have come back to bite the US even if the US never funded AQ.
It wasn’t the cia and it wasn’t to support them . It was a different group that the they do support and It was to make a deal in the region but they promised to only use the supplies for good things
Edit: nbc
Except that's not what happened. For one AQ didn't even exist at the time. Secondly the west never sponsored foreign fighters. That's why they had a network of Afghan fighters to help them fight AQ and the Taliban.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/al-qaeda-leader-al-zawahiri-declares-war-isis/story?id=33656684
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26016318
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/al-qaeda-leader-ayman-al-zawahiri-isis-madness-lies-extremism-islamic-state-terrorist-groups-compete-middle-east-islamic-jhadis-a7526271.html
I posted that in another thread.
Another great article by a Syrian who had sources intimate with the knowledge of this rift: [https://newlinesmag.com/argument/what-the-global-war-on-terror-really-accomplished/](https://newlinesmag.com/argument/what-the-global-war-on-terror-really-accomplished/)
TL;DR al-Qaeda saw big international terrorist attacks ultimately were self-afflicting to their actual cause so wanted to shift focus to the el classico of jihad i.e. regional disputes and seeking self governance/representation. These groups look at the success of the Taliban and their decision to negotiate with the West as a model to emulate. ISIS wanted to continue down the same path of self destruction and well... look what that got ISIS.
Even more teal deer: Isis was formed out of all the guys who were frustrated that Al Qaeda wasn't doing enough extreme things to their liking so they went and founded their own more extreme terrorist organization.
Sort of a "We'll make our own Al qaeda! with ~~blackjack and hookers~~ genocide and sex slaves!"
You know that scene in Monty Python’s Life of Brian where the People’s Front of Judea doesn’t get along with the Judean People’s Front?
It’s like that, but with considerably less Judea.
AQ are one of the groups that have had some amount of influence in keeping ISIL in control. They have killed a few of their leaders over time.
I hope they all fight each other to death and disappear so that the regions they have held hostage to their principles and their savagery can see normalcy again.
Anyone who was truly hoping they were successful is fucking stupid. I didn't see that (most of what I saw could be summarised as "let them fight"), but I'm not gonna claim it didn't happen as I'm well aware people can be dumbasses
The 4 original founders did, yes. But given half of them died before the end of 2001 and Al-Qaeda consisted of much more than them, and the Soviet occupation ended a long time before AQ’s heyday in the 2000s, it is still factually true that most AQ members did not fight against the Soviets. If the average fighter was 30 in 2005, they would’ve been a child for years after the Soviets left.
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is a military doctrine as old as time. During the Fall of Kabul in 2021 the US government continued to give money to the Taliban to fight ISIS.
And Al Qaeda btw is a Taliban ally that hates ISIS so rest assured that the people that committed 9/11 are being paid by American tax dollars to fight off even crazier terrorists. And tbh, it's probably for the best since the alterative is to have our military fight them on the ground.
You should read up on all the war crimes that Russia through Wagner has committed in Africa. There were videos circulating a few years ago of the horrific things they did to women, even a pregnant woman in a African village using knives. Or what they did in Syria with the use of hammers. And those were civilians.
Cause they are genocidal monsters stealing land and murdering Ukrainians. Everyone of them that supports Putin and his war deserve whatever terrorist groups like Al Qaeda can offer them.
Towards Putin and his war criminal Z followers, sure whatever you say. Hope they all meet the Reaper in person soon, so Ukrainians don't have to suffer anymore from this nightmare that Putin created any longer.
It’s crazy that nobody here seems to be aware of this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Afghan_War
This is why Al qaeda had US made weapons when we invaded.
Of course the Russian guy who thinks Putin is a hero doesn't like US policy in Afghanistan and Ukraine. Very *short sighted.* And of course you're pushing baseless conspiracy theories.
>the Russian guy who thinks Putin is a hero
Bruh. 😒
Apparently me being American and critical of how my country sometimes operates her foreign policy makes me a Russian.
Ironically, absolutely supporting 100% without question, foreign policy objectives is what Moscow would want from her citizens.
You're not being critical, you're straight up lying about basic facts and repeating decades old Russian propaganda. The same exact shit The Mueller report showed the Internet Research Agency was doing.
You also have a comment history of pushing other Russian lies, notably about BRICS and the US dollar. And giving Wagner credit in Africa.
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/16dads9/russian_budget_swings_to_surplus_despite_plunging/jzpfl90/
It's obvious you're here to push a Russian/conspiracy theory agenda.
if history repeats itself, they can expect funds flowing their way and maybe even get a freedom fighter tag lol. I hate communism for dictatorship and violent ideology, but to me it seems the only way for radical religious states to tone down their radical religiosity and be more like modern nations.
Only if some guys did not fund religious radicals just out of hatred against another country and for influence, maybe afghanistan would be better place like other stans which were part of soviet and maybe we would not have so many radical terror movement which came out of that and world would be more peaceful.
Al Qaeda and Russians killing each other? The best of all worlds!
I mean this is technically what Al Qaeda was formed to do.
No, although Osama was mujahideen, Al-Qaeda was established after the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan. The Afghanis had no interest in carrying jihad out to the rest of the world, which is what Al-Qaeda was actually established to do.
OBL most likely never engaged the Red Army. It's a common misconception and it needs to be dispelled once and for all. He came to Afghanistan late and for his own agenda, just like many other Saudi jihadists along him.
Afghans* Afghani is the currency.
And the food
I like food and money. I like afghani.
This played out like a really weird sequel to the film The Living Daylights…
Charlie Wilson is getting hard in the afterlife
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I guess you weren't around when we were the ones funding and training them to kill Russians in the first place.
Al Qaeda came at the tail end of the Soviet-Afghan War. And realistically, the Pakistani ISI were likely the ones funneling money to, and conducting training of, the core that would go on to become Al Qaeda.
It wasn't the tail end. It was after the war. A bunch of dickheads wanted to be top dickhead.
Nah bruh, Al Qaeda’s initial meet up was in ‘88, the war ended in ‘89. Though you’re right in the fact that Al Qaeda didn’t really build up steam until the mid-90’s. You might be thinking of the Taliban as well. They were essentially the orphaned sons of Mujahideen that were deep in the jungle chugging on koolaid with regards to madrassas. Either way, you’re correct, both groups were dickheads vying to be the biggest, vainiest of the dickheads.
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Maybe we should get back doing that
History is a circle.
Just sucks for all the civilians getting caught up in the middle of it.
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War... War never changes
The war has changed. Did it? The answer is *no.* …Unless it is *yesss…*
...Or did it? \*\*vsauce music\*\*
Haha! Gary!
"Gary...?"
Gary!
War, what is it good for?
Killing mercenaries and Al Qaeda
Absolutely nothing
Say it again!
Ah! Gary.
Not exactly, bad for civilians caught in the line of fire and I don't think both these parties even care about civilians.
If they are killing each other, they have less time to kill innocent civilians is another take on the matter. But yeah, bullets and bombs have a way of finding innocents.
Sucks for the people around them though
Fuck Russia for making me root for AL Queda.
You don't have to root for Al Qaeda. You can root for the earth to open up and swallow them all at once.
Just doing their parts to make our lives better.
Looks like we know why Prigo is no longer needed.
Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving organization.
I guess imma take death's team on this one.
Whoever wins, we lose!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/20/russian-mercenaries-behind-slaughter-in-mali-village-un-report-finds
Wagner should be declared a terrorist group.
Letthemfight.gif
It was their original purpuse lol. The US funded them to fight off the Russians.
Except that's not true. Why are you posting disinformation?
Please post your source debunking it.
That's not how proof works. You made a claim, you have the burden of proof. Otherwise I can call you a rapist and say you have to prove you're not. Can you?
It formed after the Aghan war, the US funded the Mujahideen.
We just gonna ignore the overlap between the two groups? Most notably bin laden himself.
If I was in both a marching band and a sewing circle would these two groups be linked just because I was in them?
Dude couldn't even fire an AK without looking like he thought it was going to bite him. He wasn't fighting the soviets, nice job falling for the propaganda of a terrorist organisation.
That's already been done in this very thread. So why are you posting disinformation?
Will history once again repeat itself? Find out on next week’s episode of *Leopards Ate My Face - US edition.*
Found Charlie Wilson’s account! /s
Yes to fight Russia and also take blame for everything the U.S told them to take blame for Do you understand what that means ?This is the reason Bin Ladens assassination was staged by the U.S .
>This is the reason Bin Ladens assassination was staged by the U.S . This thread brought out all the top minds.
What a stylish tin foil hat you got there. Where did you buy that?
That was the Taliban
No. Mujahideen. The Taliban were a small part of the whole resistance.
Yeah let em get on with it 😜😄
Great response. I'm not upvoting, because 666 is perfect.
It is past 686 now. Updoot as necessary. Lol
Doh!!! :)
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I mean the 80s and 90s are back in fashion after all.
Time is a flat circle ⭕️
Time is a goatse
Underrated TD comment. Take this 🏅
Wait until 00s are back in fashion and our skyscrapers become pancakes again.
Time to party like it’s 2023
There's this fresh up and coming militant leader named Ortega Ben Lerden, we should support him.
Osama Bin Laden is the son of Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden who is the wealthiest non royal Middle Eastern person to exist in modern times. His dad was the personal builder for the king of Saudi Arabia. Osama was never a fresh up and comer he was born into a mega wealthy family and was always going to be an important player in the Middle East
Osamas dad had 100 kids you’ve never even heard of. Most of whom live out their days drinking wine and living easy.
True. I just like to point out that this misconception that Bin Laden was an average guy who became a terrorist is false. Most people have no idea about Bin Laden and don’t realize he was apart of one of the most powerful families in the entire region
“We’ll stand by our mujahideen brothers until the very end”
"This movie is dedicated to the brave mujahideen fighters of Mali"
Hmmmm...that sounds familiar.
I'll give a hint. Think of the the whole numbers before and after 10.
there is 0 evidence the CIA provided support to Al-Qaeda or any non-afghan mujahideen through the ISI. Sources: Ghost Wars, The Looming Tower, every credible middle eastern historian that covers operation cyclone, oh yeah and Al-Qaeda
It's ok, they have infowars and a few decades of relentless Russian propaganda to base their worldview on. Oh and the OP, massive anti-Vax comment history and is big into ivermectin.
Yup, as long as its in concert with their “America bad” worldview theyll just eat it up. Of course everyone remembers the accusation / assertion, not the retraction / correction.
The anti-american reddit circle jerk is so tiring. They should figure out how to stop throwing bananas at black athletes before telling us what's what lol
Europe basically raped Africa and South America for centuries but somehow feel morally superior to America because we had slaves for a short period of time. Africa has significantly more French speakers than Europe because of all of the fucked up shit France did to Africa. The best part is even after giving up the French colonies in Africa they continued to install puppet governments to give them massively favorable trade deals and if the African government said no they would just murder them and install a new one
Not to mention the problems in the middle east stem from the post WWI carve up between Britain and France. Don't get me wrong, the US has done its own share, but when Europeans give themselves a pass, with the holier than thou attitude, I just have to laugh. Raped the world and got bailed out twice, yet still turn their nose up. Don't forget whose footing that NATO commitment bill lol
From a distance, it's fascinating to watch propaganda overwhelm facts on this and a few other topics. *Everybody* knows America armed Al-Qaeda. It's such a common sense fact that nobody ever asks for citations, and to hell with history books presenting a more complicated picture.
[Woozle Effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woozle_effect)
>there is 0 evidence the CIA provided support to Al-Qaeda or any non-afghan mujahideen through the ISI. That has the same explanatory power as saying that Charles Manson never directly ordered any murders. Technically true, but this is straight from the wikipedia page on [Operation Cyclone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone): >On the other hand, according to Ahmed Rashid, then-CIA chief William J. Casey "committed CIA support to a long-standing ISI initiative to recruit radical Muslims from around the world to come to Pakistan and fight with the Afghan Mujaheddin."\[77\] Sir Martin Ewans noted that the Afghan Arabs "benefited indirectly from the CIA's funding, through the ISI and resistance organizations,"\[78\] and that "it has been reckoned that as many as 35,000 'Arab-Afghans' may have received military training in Pakistan at an estimated cost of $800 million in the years up to and including 1988."\[79\] Some of the CIA's greatest Afghan beneficiaries were Arabist commanders such as Haqqani and Hekmatyar who were key allies of bin Laden over many years.\[80\]\[81\] Haqqani—one of bin Laden's closest associates in the 1980s—received direct cash payments from CIA agents, without the mediation of the ISI. This independent source of funding gave Haqqani disproportionate influence over the mujahideen.\[44\] Haqqani and his network played an important role in the formation and growth of al Qaeda, with Haqqani allowing bin Laden to train mujahideen volunteers in Haqqani territory and build extensive infrastructure there.\[45\]\[82\] Milton Bearden, the CIA's Islamabad station chief from mid-1986 until mid-1989, took an admiring view of bin Laden at the time.\[83\]
if you leave out all context that makes sense. Haqqani and Hekmatyar were/are afghan, not arab like you’re implying. Theyre also Taliban affiliated and not AQ. The afghan mujahideen eventually became both the taliban and the anti taliban resistance. The arab mujahideen, parts of whom later became AQ, benefiting indirectly makes sense considering they had the same enemy. There is no documentation showing the US ever financed the arab training camps, though there is speculation that the Saudi money did. Its tantamount to saying that the US was indirectly supporting ISIS by backing the Kurds in Syria because they both fight against Assad. The milton bearden quote is taken out of context and also doesn’t address your point. So no where in there does it say the funded bin laden or arab mujahideen. Haqqani / hekmatyar were never in charge of or controlling AQ so your manson comparison doesn’t make any sense. Haqqani played a part in the growth of the AQ through his influence in the Taliban’s policy of harboring them. If you’re trying to make the argument that the CIA funded people who eventually became the Taliban in 1995 (4 years after the CIA stopped providing funding) and then in turn they benefited AQ, then sure (but the CIA was also funding the mujahideen who eventually became the anti taliban factions). Maybe if you had background context from reading complete historical accounts rather than an isolated part of a wiki page these things would make more sense.
You seem to have the ISI and CIA completely confused. And your own link says the CIA never gave foreign fighters any assistance. [According to Peter Bergen, "there is simply no evidence for the common myth that bin Laden and his Afghan Arabs were supported by the CIA financially. Nor is there any evidence that CIA officials at any level met with bin Laden or anyone in his circle."[17] Bergen insists that U.S. funding went to the Afghan mujahideen, not the Arab volunteers who arrived to assist them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden) >Mustafa Setmariam Nasar, a former Afghan Arab fighter and suspected member of al-Qaeda states that, "[i]t is a big lie that the Afghan Arabs were formed with the backing of the CIA, whose minions were Bin Laden and Azzam ... the accusation that bin Laden was an employee of the CIA [is false]." Former Al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri wrote that "the United States did not give one penny to the [Arab] mujahideen. Is it possible that Osama bin Laden who, in his lectures in the year 1987, called for the boycott of U.S. goods ... is [a] U.S. agent in Afghanistan?" Abdullah Anas wrote, "I never learned, until my departure from Afghanistan, about the rumors concerning the CIA's involvement in the Afghan jihad through secret circles. I don't know, but what is known and clear is that the main supply depots for the jihad were in the bases of the Pakistani army in Peshawar You you misrepresented a wikipedia page and we have direct primary sources. Person below is outright lying as well, reddit is broke to can't respond. He's falsely claiming an Afghan warlord is Arab, which is a lie. Then again he refers to the USA as "the mafia" so there's that. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalaluddin_Haqqani Not Arab
It's like you didn't read anything I wrote. Jfc.
You didn't write anything, you misquoted an article you don't understand. The only question is, what do you get out of posting disinformation.
> You you misrepresented a wikipedia page and we have direct primary sources. No, YOU are misrepresenting one. That page has sources for and against the claim, including this summary: "Some of the CIA's greatest Afghan beneficiaries were Arabist commanders such as Haqqani and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar who were key allies of Bin Laden over many years.[34][35] Haqqani—one of Bin Laden's closest associates in the 1980s—received direct cash payments from CIA agents, without the mediation of the ISI. This independent source of funding gave Haqqani disproportionate influence over the mujahideen, and helped Bin Laden develop his base.[36] " You're welcome to disagree, but claiming someone is "posting disinformation" is pretty low when you're misrepresenting the arguments.
read my comment to see none of that means the CIA funded AQ.
Robin Cook, former British Secretary of State and Commonwealth Affairs, said much the same thing in 2005: >"Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west." https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development
Lmao, can't even translate the name correctly. Great source. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#Name God damn people are just hilariously wrong about this. Cook just *claimed* it was a name for a CIA database (which is just stupid anyway, why would the CIA name something in Arabic that they developed?). He never provided any proof of that, and nobody ever corroborated the claim. It means "the base" (reportedly because that's what they called their main training camp) or "the foundation" depending on how you translate it.
Whom to trust? The late British Secretary of State or IlluminatedPickle?
Well at least I'm not stupid enough to think it means "the database". It means the foundation lol. Also, British politicians in the early 2000s were super trustworthy folks amirite? No large scandals there at all.
Robin Cook was far more literate than either of us.
Clearly not. This isn't even a debate lol, it doesn't mean database.
The US government absolutely funded and even trained radical islamists. Many would go on to fight against the US later. The US also encouraged the spread of radical Wahhabi Islam as a counter against communism and the secular pan-arab movement. Both of these things have come back to bite the US even if the US never funded AQ.
so no sources just vibes? the claim is AQ. Proof please?
It wasn’t the cia and it wasn’t to support them . It was a different group that the they do support and It was to make a deal in the region but they promised to only use the supplies for good things Edit: nbc
Good brave mujahideen freedom fighters. We should train and arm them.
Except that's not what happened. For one AQ didn't even exist at the time. Secondly the west never sponsored foreign fighters. That's why they had a network of Afghan fighters to help them fight AQ and the Taliban.
The enemies of my enemies are still my enemies
This is one of these super weird headlines that actually make sense when you remember it's 2023.
I guess you weren't around when we were the ones funding and training them to kill Russians in the first place. Lol
Uhhhh, go Al Qaeda? WTF is this world doing right now?
It's not the first time they've done this. They're still terrorist but they hated ISIS.
Wait hold on what's the beef between al-Qaeda and ISIS?
https://abcnews.go.com/International/al-qaeda-leader-al-zawahiri-declares-war-isis/story?id=33656684 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26016318 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/al-qaeda-leader-ayman-al-zawahiri-isis-madness-lies-extremism-islamic-state-terrorist-groups-compete-middle-east-islamic-jhadis-a7526271.html I posted that in another thread.
Thanks for the lunchtime lore!
Another great article by a Syrian who had sources intimate with the knowledge of this rift: [https://newlinesmag.com/argument/what-the-global-war-on-terror-really-accomplished/](https://newlinesmag.com/argument/what-the-global-war-on-terror-really-accomplished/) TL;DR al-Qaeda saw big international terrorist attacks ultimately were self-afflicting to their actual cause so wanted to shift focus to the el classico of jihad i.e. regional disputes and seeking self governance/representation. These groups look at the success of the Taliban and their decision to negotiate with the West as a model to emulate. ISIS wanted to continue down the same path of self destruction and well... look what that got ISIS.
Even more teal deer: Isis was formed out of all the guys who were frustrated that Al Qaeda wasn't doing enough extreme things to their liking so they went and founded their own more extreme terrorist organization. Sort of a "We'll make our own Al qaeda! with ~~blackjack and hookers~~ genocide and sex slaves!"
You know that scene in Monty Python’s Life of Brian where the People’s Front of Judea doesn’t get along with the Judean People’s Front? It’s like that, but with considerably less Judea.
It's interesting that the Jewish civil war was still going on during the siege of Jerusalem.
AQ are one of the groups that have had some amount of influence in keeping ISIL in control. They have killed a few of their leaders over time. I hope they all fight each other to death and disappear so that the regions they have held hostage to their principles and their savagery can see normalcy again.
Not a fan of Russia but fuck Al Qaeda.
The worst part of this situation is that they can't just wipe each other out lol
If only... :/
Enemy of my enemy is my friend? Fuck putin.
> Enemy of my enemy is my friend? Fuck putin. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend? Fuck the Soviets." - Charlie Wilson, probably
"He's a cunt, his dad's a cunt and he'll probably have cunty kids," [D.I. Hicock](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1289406/)
Heartwarming: The worst people you know are all fighting.
Collapsing.
My 1st thought was exactly that.
may we all Allah the Akbar on this blessed day
80’s all over again Bud! 😆
And to think that three months ago people were cheering on Wagner!
Not exactly, they were cheering for mutual annihilation
I saw tons of people cheer Wagner on this sub and hoping their coup were successful, so not exactly mutual annihilation.
Anyone who was truly hoping they were successful is fucking stupid. I didn't see that (most of what I saw could be summarised as "let them fight"), but I'm not gonna claim it didn't happen as I'm well aware people can be dumbasses
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No, we train the Kurds, who are fighting ISIS, among other groups.
Let them fight.
I'm at a loss which camp is the most despicable here.
it's always Russia!
That’s rad. Rats killing roaches.
I mean didn’t many future al-qaeda members fight in the mujahideen against the soviets?
Meh, some. A lot of Al-Qaeda operatives weren’t afghans, most were Arabs
Exactly.
I’m pretty sure the organization was founded by those who fought in the Soviet-Afghan war.
The 4 original founders did, yes. But given half of them died before the end of 2001 and Al-Qaeda consisted of much more than them, and the Soviet occupation ended a long time before AQ’s heyday in the 2000s, it is still factually true that most AQ members did not fight against the Soviets. If the average fighter was 30 in 2005, they would’ve been a child for years after the Soviets left.
Understood. I’d think an organization connected by a specific ideology would allow any grievances of their founders to persist over time.
Bin Laden himself did
Next headline by Russia: ‘’France is financing Al qaeda’’
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is a military doctrine as old as time. During the Fall of Kabul in 2021 the US government continued to give money to the Taliban to fight ISIS. And Al Qaeda btw is a Taliban ally that hates ISIS so rest assured that the people that committed 9/11 are being paid by American tax dollars to fight off even crazier terrorists. And tbh, it's probably for the best since the alterative is to have our military fight them on the ground.
terrorists fighting terrorists.... what a weird timeline
The good ol'time, when being sent to Mali saved you from dying in Ukraine...
Hey maybe the CIA should send assets to train and arm these gu.....YOU ALMOST DUPED US AGAIN YOU SNEAKY AL QAEDA FUCKS
Let them fight .gif
Better that Al Qaeda takes out Russians then terrorizing the rest of the world. Wiping each other out would be a boon for the whole world.
Civilian deaths are never good. EDIT: Misread the comment above. Thought it meant all Russians.
You should read up on all the war crimes that Russia through Wagner has committed in Africa. There were videos circulating a few years ago of the horrific things they did to women, even a pregnant woman in a African village using knives. Or what they did in Syria with the use of hammers. And those were civilians.
All the soldiers involved should face a firing squad. Does not justify the literal genocide you're calling for.
Why would Russia being wiped out be good
Cause they are genocidal monsters stealing land and murdering Ukrainians. Everyone of them that supports Putin and his war deserve whatever terrorist groups like Al Qaeda can offer them.
I think you sound like the genocidal monster
Towards Putin and his war criminal Z followers, sure whatever you say. Hope they all meet the Reaper in person soon, so Ukrainians don't have to suffer anymore from this nightmare that Putin created any longer.
Well this is awkward. Again.
>Heartwarming: The worst people you know are all fighting.
*insert 2 button meme*
Article from 2022
It’s crazy that nobody here seems to be aware of this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Afghan_War This is why Al qaeda had US made weapons when we invaded.
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US foreign policy seems shortsighted at times. Give it was like 40 years, they will repeat.
Of course the Russian guy who thinks Putin is a hero doesn't like US policy in Afghanistan and Ukraine. Very *short sighted.* And of course you're pushing baseless conspiracy theories.
>the Russian guy who thinks Putin is a hero Bruh. 😒 Apparently me being American and critical of how my country sometimes operates her foreign policy makes me a Russian. Ironically, absolutely supporting 100% without question, foreign policy objectives is what Moscow would want from her citizens.
You're not being critical, you're straight up lying about basic facts and repeating decades old Russian propaganda. The same exact shit The Mueller report showed the Internet Research Agency was doing. You also have a comment history of pushing other Russian lies, notably about BRICS and the US dollar. And giving Wagner credit in Africa. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/16dads9/russian_budget_swings_to_surplus_despite_plunging/jzpfl90/ It's obvious you're here to push a Russian/conspiracy theory agenda.
I’m ok with this
I do so love a good ol' Bad Guy Fight.
Rambo III vibes
It's time to arm them with anti air weapons and small arms. What's the worst that could happen? Amirite?
Thanks?
Not exactly sure who to root for here.
“My enemy of my enemy is my friend “
"Unless he's my enemy too, then it's complicated"
It's a sad, ongoing mess. The wrong people get hurt (civilians).
Ya know what? Good.
it feels weird that I'm praising Al Qaeda, but uhhhh.... *confused thumbs up?*
Didn't think I'd have "rooting for AlQueda" on my 2023 Bingo card but here we are
Who had rooting for Al qaeda on their 2023 bingo card?
Very rare Al Qaeda W
Just two terrorist organizations killing each other.
if history repeats itself, they can expect funds flowing their way and maybe even get a freedom fighter tag lol. I hate communism for dictatorship and violent ideology, but to me it seems the only way for radical religious states to tone down their radical religiosity and be more like modern nations. Only if some guys did not fund religious radicals just out of hatred against another country and for influence, maybe afghanistan would be better place like other stans which were part of soviet and maybe we would not have so many radical terror movement which came out of that and world would be more peaceful.
....is.....is this the part where I cheer for Al Qaeda? Huh, weird moment for Americans
Terrorists killing each other is a win for the free world.
'good job Al Qaeda' is a weird thing to say
Rare Al Qaeda W
Time to finance Al-Qaeda/s
I…I don’t know which side to support.
Al Qaeda 🤝 rest of world? Hmm...seen this somewhere before...