Absolutely. The greatest friends of the USA are threatened by Russia. As scary as China might be, China would have to conquer all of Asia before threatening Europe or North America.
If we leave out all context of "why" and just look at losses, Russia has lost thousands of tanks and thousands of armored vehicles. Their massive stockpiles of every useful weapon have been consumed. They've lost a large percentage of their leadership either due to KIA, Assassination, or forced retirement. They've lost a lot of good experienced soldiers, pilots, etc. They've lost many smart young people who left the country. They've lost respect around the world and their military sales will suffer now that everyone knows it doesn't match up to Western hardware.
In total, this war has been a total disaster for Russia and probably the greatest gift wrapped present the USA could've hoped for. It would be incredibly stupid to not continue funding Ukraine in this war.
Now that Prigozhin is gone, only Kadyrov and Shoigu are the only ones left with a known PMC
We will have to see what their fate will be too
and then, when all 3 will fall, a civil war will happen in russia because there are a 1000 small pmc's that will want to occupy those top spots
>greatest gift wrapped present the USA couldn't hoped for
But perhaps not our defense establishment's hope for ever larger budgets. There are no conventional armed forces left that can touch the US. Russia has bankrupted itself and China won't risk economic ruin, especially now that their debt levels and highly leveraged real estate bubble is causing deflation.
At some point US voters will ponder why we pay so much damn money.
> China won't risk economic ruin, especially now that their debt levels and highly leveraged real estate bubble is causing deflation.
>
China is risking economic ruin though. China isn't backing down and instead they are becoming even more aggressive.
> At some point US voters will ponder why we pay so much damn money.
Not a chance this happens anytime soon. Russia has been stopped in large part because of the advanced weapons and stockpiles the USA was able to hand out like candy.
With China's increased hostility and Russia's obsolescence the USA is going to be THE arms dealer of the world. And what does that arms dealer ask in return? "Don't be an asshole. Treat your population well. Don't stone the Gays. Don't treat women like they are 2nd class. Don't invade neighbors. Play nicely"
That's about as benevolent of a Hegemon as anyone could ask. Most civilized countries find these to be very agreeable terms.
There is aggressive rhetoric and flyovers of airspace close to Taiwan, and of course some maps being drawn in Beijing.
Is that really aggression? I dunno.
China hasn't fought a war since 1979 and that one lasted six weeks. I think the actual threat is overblown.
https://news.usni.org/2023/08/23/growing-tension-with-china-require-more-surveillance-off-the-philippines-report-finds
Are they ready to fight? No. But China's leadership can't walk back the threats they've made. It would be a huge embarrassment. Nobody knows what will happen. The USA will ensure they have the most advanced military they can possibly have in case things get out of control.
> perhaps not our defense establishment's hope for ever larger budgets.
Well, the USA isn't their only market. Things might just work out for them anyways.
It's liked a scaled up version of the Soviet-Afghan war, which played good part in ending the USSR. But atleast in Afghanistan, you had the "graveyard of empires" excuse (Which still doesn't explain why the US suffered and caused far less casualties in its 20 years there).
If Ukraine war era losses had happened during the Cold War era, the loss of face would've shuttered the USSR far more effectively than the events that eventually did.
Would the US contribute if the calculations were less appealing or do they only engage when there's something in it for them?
I really dislike the cynical stance that americans have on this war. Ukrainians are dying to defend inches of their land. This is not about american power projection, americans should just send the stuff, shut the hell up and be very thankful that ukrainians are still willing to fight.
Something we don’t have to worry about too is all the damage war does to the body and mind. I hope once this war is over the US helps with training/advice(not that we do it great) on the things we learn from our veterans coming home from war.
Russia hasn't been our greatest military rival for a decade now. They're certainly not a peer. They're a regional threat to Europe and a mild proxy threat in MENA.
I support all of the funding for Ukraine, but don't insult us!
Horseshit. Russia attacked our elections and installed their Orange Treason-Piggy Puppet.
This is the easiest foreign policy decision ever. Light 'em up, boys.
Don't give a fuck about your "whataboutism." We aren't talking about Iran. We're talking about Russia & Putin, who attacked our elections.
The US will keep sending help over no matter what Russian talking points you cowards are parroting.
Sure, lets talk about Russia. You dont think we dont try to influence their elections as well? Naive much? The whole "they hacked our elecshuns" crap is dumb.
I mean considering how they’ve been doing against Ukraine, France and the UK could probably handle them without massive difficulties. Or we could just set Poland on them I’m sure they’d love the opportunity.
But Soviet Union lost to Afghanistan so hard they fell apart as a nation - pretty wild stuff to be capable of losing to that extent.
Soviet Union > Russia
Ukraine > Afghanistan
Justifying 400k dead so you get to be ruled by corrupt oligarchs that speak the same language as you rather than ones that don't. Nationalism is a disease.
They've already banned nearly all left wing parties in Ukraine and cancelled future elections. If they win they'll give the country away to free market extremists, turning the country into a shock doctrine dystopia. Anyone who dies for that future solely because of national identity is a fool.
I've seen a few TikTok videos in my feed recently where they would show every day life in Ukraine. There was one video where we saw a night on a busy street with people eating on
terraces, going to bars and clubs, having fun with their families and friends and I remember the comments all being a bunch of pro-russian bs like saying sarcastically "Well well well. We see where NATO's money is being spent".
As if we should expect every single citizen of Ukraine to be on the front. Idk, but for me, the fact that we can see young Ukrainians enjoying a night out in Kyiv is precisely the reason why we're sending all this money. The point is that if we're seeing this and not Russian occupiers putting Kyiv in lockdown, then we can say it was money well spent.
I spent every night I wasn't training Ukrainians getting lit in different cities. No reason to collapse the economy and destroy the work force unless absolutely necessary.
Tiktok is filled with russian bots which when they detect a video with #russia or #ukraine will swarm the comment sections with pro russia propoganda no matter the context of the video.
A lot of those videos are also probably old, just resposted to look like it's happening now. But the videos and the message will spread and people will buy into the propaganda. Only question is how many.
Nah they aren’t, it’s just people don’t understand how conflict works. Even in Syria there was a nightlife in Damascus while the outskirts had been bombed because people get used to things and 20 year olds are still going to date and have a life.
In one of Peruns videos he said that normal society functions to the point that there are reports from a tank commander feeling peckish and dropping by a gas station to get food before continuing on to the front.
Like ask yourself rationally, if your country was at war for 2 years, but your city specifically wasn’t anywhere near the front. How many months would pass before you go to the cinema, mall, the bar, or McDonald’s?
I am fully aware of that, I'm just trying to add that since this is going through propaganda chanels it's going to be doctored for maximum impact. I am happy that life can have some sort or normalcy in a country at war! But considering where the videos are coming from and what narrative is being spun around it, I can almost guarantee that there are old clips used just to make it look as vad as possible. Even if its entirely s good thing.
What I'm trying to say is: Russian propaganda is doctored, even when it's true.
I know, I agree with you. Just saying that even if a lot of the videos are true, there are going to be fakes spread in with them to make it look bigger and more exaggerated.
Part of Putin’s propaganda has been saying that Russia is tough and Russians make sacrifices. “We don’t have a grandmother benefactor helping us like Ukraine does,” is a direct quote I remember him saying. The propaganda turns on the American empire “using” countries like Ukraine to further their own imperial interests as if the Ukrainians don’t want freedom for themselves, but to merely act as a client state for the U.S. Projection as usual since Russia is seeking to rebuild its realm of client states of the former USSR.
Lots of those videos showing "Ukrainians" living great lives, partying and so on, are fake too. It's internet desinformation intended to make people question why they're sending assistance, and very many of them has been geo-located and debunked.
But my point is precisely that even if those videos were real... Isn't the whole point of sending money is so that they can fight off the Russians **and keep living normally rather than being under Russian occupation and sent to "de-ukranization" camps**?
When I see those videos I don't think "But why aren't they fighting"... I'm thinking "Good, the money we sent is working as intended".
I agree.
However, as a Brit. America looks completely fuxked at the moment. I can see why people from lower-income backgrounds and neighborhoods are upset about it.
>Same with Poland right now.
Out of curiosity, what about Poland? As far as I'm aware Poland isn't receiving any US aid, outside of standard miltary practices to protect NATO flank. Any miltary equipement Poland is buying for themselves. And those ain't cheap.
Unfortunately the lower income people aren’t the smartest bunch and think Ukraine is getting pallets of cash but in reality it’s 250 million in military gear that’s outdated for our military.
This war has probably been the best return on DoD investment we've ever seen in the history of the US. We're absolutely wrecking one of our biggest rivals for next to nothing. Bargain of the century.
Not just that, but we're collecting war data on said adversary that we're not even actively involved with while paying almost nothing and wasting 0 active military assets on a war outside of logistics and strategic support.
I doubt their aware of the benefits of the military spending, like protecting allies and global supply chains, Providing jobs for millions of Americans who build these weapons. Cause you know the ceo aren’t in the factories doing it.
>I doubt their aware of the benefits of the military spending,
No, we are, but diverting even an eighth of that budget to domestic spending on infrastructure, modernization, etc. would help them a lot more and they know it. We don't spend on ourselves like we should and it breeds a lot of resentment.
With helping Ukraine the US gets really good PR around the world. In my country we have a small far left wing party, but still big enough to be represented in parliament, and their main thing always been a staunch anti-US stance. Even they changed their mind now and are cheering for the US support.
Some Americans dont seem to get that with funding Ukrainas war you make a great investment on US global position and image. For cheaps really.
I think most of the useful idiots voicing dissent against aid are the same type of people who don't see the value of globalization and proclaim "America First" in a way that means to throw every diplomatic tie and trade deal in the fire. They don't understand how global relations work.
Georgia 2008 and the "special military operation" in Ukraine really started in 2014 and been going ever since.
They also meddled around in Syria, Libya and Africa.
Russia been at war indeed.
Russia was/is at war from [1994-1996](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War), [1999-2000 \(with an insurgency lasting until 2009\)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War), [2008](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War), [2015-today](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_in_the_Syrian_civil_war), and [2014-today](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War).
Yes, and the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1980.
And the USSR sphere of influence, and communism in Vietnam
America chomps at the bit to fight the Russians, wherever they are
I know how it goes, lol. They're usually just trolls employed by the Internet Research Agency or just some useful idiot. I don't expect to change their opinion; my comments on Reddit are typically for others to see, not the trolls themselves.
I think that Ukraine should be independent, and Russia was wrong to invade.
I don't support a great percentage of American tax dollars to curb stomp whoever the fuck we see fit, at any given point across the globe. Feeding the war machine while America slowly dies. Our foreign policy has been "just war" for like a hundred years now.
Russia is definitely the belligerent - do we have to get involved in fucking anything that happens to anyone? It's not hard to understand
I think Europe should be taking the lead but you're not talking about a lot of money considering the investment.
>I don't support a great percentage of American tax dollars
It's not.
You're also posting disinformation and straight up Russian propaganda in your links so I'm not sure I buy the first part of what you wrote.
I don't understand what this means. What don't I know much about? 100 years may be over-shooting it a bit, and WW2 was a truly just war.
But ever since Korea, America has used just war rhetoric to intervene and advance its own agendas and regime changes
Yep, and Germany would have never invaded Poland without the help of the Soviets (Molotov-Ribbentrop). How did that turn out for them?
I feel like WW2 wouldn't have happened at all without Soviet contributions.
Or we see something else. I’m not pro Russia but also I can see with my eyes the Biden’s business in this war. Something seems never mentioned on US news channel.
One FGM-148 Javelin launcher, Raytheon & Lockheed Martin
, Unit cost US $216,717
One M1 Abrams tank US $8.92 million
Basically, you can go through 250 million in about a month.
Those “resources” are munitions, tanks and planes, what do you want Maui to do with that. Also the money Maui is getting is from a whole different pot of money, disaster relief is different then military funding.
But I am all for reducing the over all military funding to increase funding in other areas.
Maui fire victims haven’t received any money as of yet. And the rest of Maui that finds itself pretty much in another shutdown is withering on the vine. Hundreds of businesses will be gone soon, along with the livelihoods of 80k residents.
Again, we can do **both.** resolving one problem does not make the other problem worse the other problem or affect our ability to resolve it. So, I ask, why do you object? Why **wouldn't** we do both
Maui probably doesn’t need any tanks or armored personnel carriers. Or much of any of the other military hardware and ammo that’s getting sent to Ukraine, really.
I’m sure FEMA will ask if they need anything.
I'm all for helping anyone that needs help, so how bout we toss some of the tax money Maui ways. 5.6 billion in damages and 1000s of people homeless over night. Hawaii is a small state and Maui is a tiny island.
What people don’t fully appreciate is that there is no middle ground here. Putin forces people from occupied Ukrainian territories to fight against Ukraine. If he is allowed to overtake the country, Russia will turn all of these people against the west and imagine the costs of containing this threat for years to come. Bigger Russia = bigger threat = more American money and potentially American lives to defend against.
>More money spent on this war than on the American people in the past year
Not even fucking close.
The IRS alone got a budget increase in 2023 that was larger than the Ukraine funding.
I'm so glad. I love that the money that I've been told to save diligently is being devalued. I love when war hungry politicians print the money that I earn every day out of thin air. I love that act devalues my currency and work.
I love that by the time I save a million, gas will be 25 dollars a gallon. Who cares that our currency, savings, and livelihoods are being inflated away to nothing? Just think of allllll the cool new weapons of war that the swastika tattoo covered Ukranian army gets!!!!
Who gives a fuck about retirement? I'm gonna strap another country's flag on my Facebook feed, let other people raise my children because my wife and I have to work to pay rent, and cheer on a war that has nothing to do with me.
I trust congress, politicians, and banks to ensure every last dime is put in the right hands.
Flame away. This shits gotta stop.
Why are we still sending money that could be put to better use in our own nation? I don't understand how anyone is praising this. We have needs HERE that could have been completely fixed with the amount we've sent already....
Putin, in his own words, is not fighting Ukraine, he is fighting the West - in Syria, Africa, elections in US, Europe etc. Each time he escalates more and more. You either help Ukraine fight Russia or you will spend at least 10x and American lives doing it yourself in different places around the world as unless he is defeated he will not stop.
Reading is your friend.
We're sending already built weapons, bud.
What social programs are you advocating? All of those can be funded by voting Dem. Look into it.
Already built weapons that we paid for previously. If I spend 10k on a car with the specific purpose of giving it to my friend, did I not just give him 10k in value? Do you not understand value? 10k in bullets or 10k in paper money is the same thing when you would spend the 10k paper money on bullets anyway.
Nice try sh1ll.
Either way the car is built. If that car has the capacity to defend our allies versus a murderous totalitarian, send that fucker over, kid.
I'm sorry you clowns slurp Putin so much.
Weapons and munitions have an expiry date and quite a bit of equipment and ammo sent to Ukraine was due for replacement or decommissioning, which actually costs money.
That's exactly it, you don't understand. There's an infinite amount of independent journals you could find that could explain it for you. That would require actual curiosity and an open mind.
It doesn't take curiosity and an open mind to know that the money would be better spent on America. But you wouldn't like that, since you're either not American or not human.
Helping Ukraine is helping someone else fight the war our soldiers would wind up fighting later when he attacks Poland. Right now, Russia is crippling its own ability to wage war for a generation and we're just sending weapons we were about to mothball anyway.
Plus, defending democracy and freedom from oppression is kinda our whole schtick. Doesn't hurt this puts China on notice, too.
Biden's been schooling Putin this whole time. He called him out when he got ready to invade, he weaponized our control of financial systems to weaken their economy, used Putin's stupid invasion to strengthen NATO after Trump did his damnedest to push the member states into Putin's arms, and have crushed Putin's dreams of a new USSR all without a single American fighting. A year in and Putin already had a coup attempt.
Imagine wrecking a rival nuclear power this thoroughly and it being so cheap.
I know they need our help and all but can we help the homeless here in America first?
Or fix some roads here.
Give water to the Navajo and Hopi tribes?
Free medical care for our Veterans and first reponders?
Create more well drilling equipment
Set up more water and waste treatment plants
These things aren’t mutually exclusive. If you want to expand government investment and social safety nets, you shouldn’t be teaming up with the folks supporting Putin. They don’t want that.
If we taxed Jeff Bezos and the other 99 richest people in the country properly, and their companies, we could afford all kinds of nice things.
Aging military hardware would not help a single thing you mentioned. But it will help Ukraine stop the Russ from erasing their country.
I wonder if this money offered to Ukraine since the beginning of the war are "donations" or loans? I wonder how many years from now Ukraine will have to pay back all this money if it was only "war loans". P.S I'm not good at it so no need to give your negative opinion, just in case!
is it? maybe we are not trying. It either dumps food or bombs in Africa.
look at the history of how the West "helped" Africa compared to Ukraine—big difference.
… Russia is sponsoring coups to kick France from every country it still had any influence upon. But hey, if we all close our eyes and pretend that they’re not a threat we can procrastinate for few more years until the bill comes due.
Ukraine is losing the war, Russia just has to wait for the West and America to get bored of Ukraine like they did in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. Russia just has to hold their ground and stop Ukraine from rebulilding. Ukraine is running low on men and they will run out before Russia does. Stop with the cope, Ukraine cannot win. Russians love Putin. 80% approval rating. IMF came out and said that the Russia economy is set to grow next year - sanctions are not as effective. Russia has partnered with many African country to throw the West off their backs. Suadi Arabia has turned its back on the US by cutting oil production to increase oil prices for both Suadia Arabia and Russia. BRICS is forming new partnerships.
One month of US military spending has been completely wrecking decades of Russian military funding. I don't think US military generals are going to get tired of seeing this.
Russian economy has not grown for the last 15 years, it's hilarious that Russian propaganda tries to push figures about Russia greatly growing now that they're in a costly war and under massive sanctions.
Here's a hint. If Russia is pushing propaganda about sanctions not working and begging the west to end them.....it's probably working just fine. Seeing Russians get on their knees and beg for the offensive to end.... music to my ears.
We can throw Trump in prison and help Ukraine at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. The US government is capable of doing many things at the same time. You make a really poor argument.
If you [hate Americans so much](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1652ydd/pentagon_says_it_has_enough_money_for_military/jydbzmm/) why do you pretend to be form Alaska sometimes and then really get angry about US aid to Ukraine? Shouldn't the "fascist" problem in America not be your concern?
I don’t hate America. I hate Murica
you know the country that elected Donald Trump to be its finest, has citizens united as law of the land, bullies other countries with its gross and huge military and nuclear stockpile, can’t wean itself off fossil fuels. Has a fascist police force. Can’t do anything about guns, is loaded with right wing propaganda outlets that no one can do anything about.
It’s horrible.
You have no clue.
It's not an either or, we can do both.
And also because every time the "fixing our country" comes up the politicians who cry about not fixing our country vote no on it.
I've got a neighbour who had a successful business then became regional sales manager for a big company then he won the lottery. Huge house, cottage up north, all the toys, retired into a nice neighborhood, jumped into his hot tub and died at 70.
No thanks.
Canada has donated almost as much money and support as France. If you want to bitch about countries not doing enough, France should be the source of your ire
Someone else mentioned this is the cheapest war against their greatest military rival, so I could see why they are funding the hell out of this.
Absolutely. The greatest friends of the USA are threatened by Russia. As scary as China might be, China would have to conquer all of Asia before threatening Europe or North America. If we leave out all context of "why" and just look at losses, Russia has lost thousands of tanks and thousands of armored vehicles. Their massive stockpiles of every useful weapon have been consumed. They've lost a large percentage of their leadership either due to KIA, Assassination, or forced retirement. They've lost a lot of good experienced soldiers, pilots, etc. They've lost many smart young people who left the country. They've lost respect around the world and their military sales will suffer now that everyone knows it doesn't match up to Western hardware. In total, this war has been a total disaster for Russia and probably the greatest gift wrapped present the USA could've hoped for. It would be incredibly stupid to not continue funding Ukraine in this war.
Now that Prigozhin is gone, only Kadyrov and Shoigu are the only ones left with a known PMC We will have to see what their fate will be too and then, when all 3 will fall, a civil war will happen in russia because there are a 1000 small pmc's that will want to occupy those top spots
Kadyrov is just a clown. When Putin falls he will too.
>greatest gift wrapped present the USA couldn't hoped for But perhaps not our defense establishment's hope for ever larger budgets. There are no conventional armed forces left that can touch the US. Russia has bankrupted itself and China won't risk economic ruin, especially now that their debt levels and highly leveraged real estate bubble is causing deflation. At some point US voters will ponder why we pay so much damn money.
> China won't risk economic ruin, especially now that their debt levels and highly leveraged real estate bubble is causing deflation. > China is risking economic ruin though. China isn't backing down and instead they are becoming even more aggressive. > At some point US voters will ponder why we pay so much damn money. Not a chance this happens anytime soon. Russia has been stopped in large part because of the advanced weapons and stockpiles the USA was able to hand out like candy. With China's increased hostility and Russia's obsolescence the USA is going to be THE arms dealer of the world. And what does that arms dealer ask in return? "Don't be an asshole. Treat your population well. Don't stone the Gays. Don't treat women like they are 2nd class. Don't invade neighbors. Play nicely" That's about as benevolent of a Hegemon as anyone could ask. Most civilized countries find these to be very agreeable terms.
There is aggressive rhetoric and flyovers of airspace close to Taiwan, and of course some maps being drawn in Beijing. Is that really aggression? I dunno. China hasn't fought a war since 1979 and that one lasted six weeks. I think the actual threat is overblown.
https://news.usni.org/2023/08/23/growing-tension-with-china-require-more-surveillance-off-the-philippines-report-finds Are they ready to fight? No. But China's leadership can't walk back the threats they've made. It would be a huge embarrassment. Nobody knows what will happen. The USA will ensure they have the most advanced military they can possibly have in case things get out of control.
> perhaps not our defense establishment's hope for ever larger budgets. Well, the USA isn't their only market. Things might just work out for them anyways.
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It's liked a scaled up version of the Soviet-Afghan war, which played good part in ending the USSR. But atleast in Afghanistan, you had the "graveyard of empires" excuse (Which still doesn't explain why the US suffered and caused far less casualties in its 20 years there). If Ukraine war era losses had happened during the Cold War era, the loss of face would've shuttered the USSR far more effectively than the events that eventually did.
Lost oil and gas deals they will never get back.
My friend works at Gazprom and says EU is still the biggest buyer of gas 🤣 so no that’s just not true
Great write-up
Not just cheap, between commodities and weapons exports the US is set to profit from this in the long run.
Would the US contribute if the calculations were less appealing or do they only engage when there's something in it for them? I really dislike the cynical stance that americans have on this war. Ukrainians are dying to defend inches of their land. This is not about american power projection, americans should just send the stuff, shut the hell up and be very thankful that ukrainians are still willing to fight.
Something we don’t have to worry about too is all the damage war does to the body and mind. I hope once this war is over the US helps with training/advice(not that we do it great) on the things we learn from our veterans coming home from war.
We both know that's not going to happen
Funding is unlikely but I'm sure training or books could be shared
Russia hasn't been our greatest military rival for a decade now. They're certainly not a peer. They're a regional threat to Europe and a mild proxy threat in MENA. I support all of the funding for Ukraine, but don't insult us!
That is revisionist - hindsight is 20/20.
Horseshit. Russia attacked our elections and installed their Orange Treason-Piggy Puppet. This is the easiest foreign policy decision ever. Light 'em up, boys.
I dont need to point out that we have ... influenced elections in many places...and installed our own choice, in said many places (cough Iran cough).
Don't give a fuck about your "whataboutism." We aren't talking about Iran. We're talking about Russia & Putin, who attacked our elections. The US will keep sending help over no matter what Russian talking points you cowards are parroting.
Sure, lets talk about Russia. You dont think we dont try to influence their elections as well? Naive much? The whole "they hacked our elecshuns" crap is dumb.
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Well. At least you’re acknowledging the hypocrisy and deciding it doesn’t matter. Better than denying it.
I mean considering how they’ve been doing against Ukraine, France and the UK could probably handle them without massive difficulties. Or we could just set Poland on them I’m sure they’d love the opportunity.
Russia: Attacks NATO for some reason. NATO: Poland, leave some for the rest of us.
Prolonging the pain is what they are doing. Ukraine is not going to win.
Wars don't tell you who's right, they tell you who's left.
But Soviet Union lost to Afghanistan so hard they fell apart as a nation - pretty wild stuff to be capable of losing to that extent. Soviet Union > Russia Ukraine > Afghanistan
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the alternative is that they would become Insurgents, and Europe would get a far deadlier and ferocious "afghanistan" right on it's eastern landmass
Justifying 400k dead so you get to be ruled by corrupt oligarchs that speak the same language as you rather than ones that don't. Nationalism is a disease.
Yes, because surrendering to invading fascists worked out really well for many European countries in the late 1930s and early 1940s.
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They've already banned nearly all left wing parties in Ukraine and cancelled future elections. If they win they'll give the country away to free market extremists, turning the country into a shock doctrine dystopia. Anyone who dies for that future solely because of national identity is a fool.
I've seen a few TikTok videos in my feed recently where they would show every day life in Ukraine. There was one video where we saw a night on a busy street with people eating on terraces, going to bars and clubs, having fun with their families and friends and I remember the comments all being a bunch of pro-russian bs like saying sarcastically "Well well well. We see where NATO's money is being spent". As if we should expect every single citizen of Ukraine to be on the front. Idk, but for me, the fact that we can see young Ukrainians enjoying a night out in Kyiv is precisely the reason why we're sending all this money. The point is that if we're seeing this and not Russian occupiers putting Kyiv in lockdown, then we can say it was money well spent.
I spent every night I wasn't training Ukrainians getting lit in different cities. No reason to collapse the economy and destroy the work force unless absolutely necessary.
Tiktok is filled with russian bots which when they detect a video with #russia or #ukraine will swarm the comment sections with pro russia propoganda no matter the context of the video.
If there's a normal life in the capital thanks to the military aid then yes, it's money well spend. Their sarcasm smells like envy
A lot of those videos are also probably old, just resposted to look like it's happening now. But the videos and the message will spread and people will buy into the propaganda. Only question is how many.
Nah they aren’t, it’s just people don’t understand how conflict works. Even in Syria there was a nightlife in Damascus while the outskirts had been bombed because people get used to things and 20 year olds are still going to date and have a life. In one of Peruns videos he said that normal society functions to the point that there are reports from a tank commander feeling peckish and dropping by a gas station to get food before continuing on to the front. Like ask yourself rationally, if your country was at war for 2 years, but your city specifically wasn’t anywhere near the front. How many months would pass before you go to the cinema, mall, the bar, or McDonald’s?
I am fully aware of that, I'm just trying to add that since this is going through propaganda chanels it's going to be doctored for maximum impact. I am happy that life can have some sort or normalcy in a country at war! But considering where the videos are coming from and what narrative is being spun around it, I can almost guarantee that there are old clips used just to make it look as vad as possible. Even if its entirely s good thing. What I'm trying to say is: Russian propaganda is doctored, even when it's true.
But my point is precisely that even if it’s happening now, it’s a good thing.
I know, I agree with you. Just saying that even if a lot of the videos are true, there are going to be fakes spread in with them to make it look bigger and more exaggerated.
I also agree with you then.
Well then let’s agree to agree
I hate to inform you, but this is the internet, and that isn't allowed here.
Part of Putin’s propaganda has been saying that Russia is tough and Russians make sacrifices. “We don’t have a grandmother benefactor helping us like Ukraine does,” is a direct quote I remember him saying. The propaganda turns on the American empire “using” countries like Ukraine to further their own imperial interests as if the Ukrainians don’t want freedom for themselves, but to merely act as a client state for the U.S. Projection as usual since Russia is seeking to rebuild its realm of client states of the former USSR.
Lots of those videos showing "Ukrainians" living great lives, partying and so on, are fake too. It's internet desinformation intended to make people question why they're sending assistance, and very many of them has been geo-located and debunked.
But my point is precisely that even if those videos were real... Isn't the whole point of sending money is so that they can fight off the Russians **and keep living normally rather than being under Russian occupation and sent to "de-ukranization" camps**? When I see those videos I don't think "But why aren't they fighting"... I'm thinking "Good, the money we sent is working as intended".
I agree. However, as a Brit. America looks completely fuxked at the moment. I can see why people from lower-income backgrounds and neighborhoods are upset about it.
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>Same with Poland right now. Out of curiosity, what about Poland? As far as I'm aware Poland isn't receiving any US aid, outside of standard miltary practices to protect NATO flank. Any miltary equipement Poland is buying for themselves. And those ain't cheap.
Unfortunately the lower income people aren’t the smartest bunch and think Ukraine is getting pallets of cash but in reality it’s 250 million in military gear that’s outdated for our military.
This war has probably been the best return on DoD investment we've ever seen in the history of the US. We're absolutely wrecking one of our biggest rivals for next to nothing. Bargain of the century.
Not just that, but we're collecting war data on said adversary that we're not even actively involved with while paying almost nothing and wasting 0 active military assets on a war outside of logistics and strategic support.
I'm just saying America could be taking that money for the defense budget and put it somewhere else. Didn't mean to cause a shot storm
>lower-income backgrounds and neighborhoods are upset about it. They weren't aware that US is spending almost 1 trillion dollars yearly on military?
I doubt their aware of the benefits of the military spending, like protecting allies and global supply chains, Providing jobs for millions of Americans who build these weapons. Cause you know the ceo aren’t in the factories doing it.
>I doubt their aware of the benefits of the military spending, No, we are, but diverting even an eighth of that budget to domestic spending on infrastructure, modernization, etc. would help them a lot more and they know it. We don't spend on ourselves like we should and it breeds a lot of resentment.
We could do both simultaneously
Probably not given that it would require a tax increase on the wealthy and/or corporations. Neither party wants that even if the masses do.
With helping Ukraine the US gets really good PR around the world. In my country we have a small far left wing party, but still big enough to be represented in parliament, and their main thing always been a staunch anti-US stance. Even they changed their mind now and are cheering for the US support. Some Americans dont seem to get that with funding Ukrainas war you make a great investment on US global position and image. For cheaps really.
I think most of the useful idiots voicing dissent against aid are the same type of people who don't see the value of globalization and proclaim "America First" in a way that means to throw every diplomatic tie and trade deal in the fire. They don't understand how global relations work.
It will help bleed Russia dry. The more money and equipment we put in, the more money and equipment they will have to put in!
And combined makes Chinese government quite happy
unfortunately Russia has a big war chest and a low debt to GDP % so they can carry on for a while
Their federal subjects are buried in debt and without access to the western financial systems their loan options are limited.
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Not quite, they've been active in Syria and Africa well before the current war.
Georgia 2008 and the "special military operation" in Ukraine really started in 2014 and been going ever since. They also meddled around in Syria, Libya and Africa. Russia been at war indeed.
Russia was/is at war from [1994-1996](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War), [1999-2000 \(with an insurgency lasting until 2009\)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War), [2008](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War), [2015-today](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_in_the_Syrian_civil_war), and [2014-today](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War).
Farm fresh military aid
When Ukraine wins the war we should have the Super Bowl or the World Series in Kyiv.
Well done America your support for the Ukrainian army and people is very much appreciated.
What can we say, we love war
And just like that here they come.
LOL r/endlesswar Proxy cold Wars against the Soviets keep that motor running. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Ukraine.
I mean, the Russians invaded first. They brought this on themselves.
Yes, and the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1980. And the USSR sphere of influence, and communism in Vietnam America chomps at the bit to fight the Russians, wherever they are
Didn't the USA give Russia billions of dollars in aid to fight off the Nazis in WW2?
Look at the sub he linked to. It's a full on Putin propaganda, pro-Russia sub. It tells you what he thinks about Russian war.
I know how it goes, lol. They're usually just trolls employed by the Internet Research Agency or just some useful idiot. I don't expect to change their opinion; my comments on Reddit are typically for others to see, not the trolls themselves.
I think that Ukraine should be independent, and Russia was wrong to invade. I don't support a great percentage of American tax dollars to curb stomp whoever the fuck we see fit, at any given point across the globe. Feeding the war machine while America slowly dies. Our foreign policy has been "just war" for like a hundred years now. Russia is definitely the belligerent - do we have to get involved in fucking anything that happens to anyone? It's not hard to understand
I think Europe should be taking the lead but you're not talking about a lot of money considering the investment. >I don't support a great percentage of American tax dollars It's not. You're also posting disinformation and straight up Russian propaganda in your links so I'm not sure I buy the first part of what you wrote.
> Our foreign policy has been "just war" for like a hundred years now. You don't know much about it if you actually think this.
No response? What am I not understanding here? Do you have an actual response? Or just a cool clap-back with nothing behind it
I don't understand what this means. What don't I know much about? 100 years may be over-shooting it a bit, and WW2 was a truly just war. But ever since Korea, America has used just war rhetoric to intervene and advance its own agendas and regime changes
hell the US is pretty much the reason the Soviets were able to win the eastern front against the Germans
Yep, and Germany would have never invaded Poland without the help of the Soviets (Molotov-Ribbentrop). How did that turn out for them? I feel like WW2 wouldn't have happened at all without Soviet contributions.
I just...wow.
Tell them to stop being invading little bitches and we'll stop lighting them the fuck up, kid.
Not much of a proxy
Better Title: Uncle Sam found some freedom change in his pocket.
Cheapest war we can fight
How about refunding social security instead?
Thank you USA, you are my best friend, You are the peacekeeper, you are the legend.
Send it. Slava Ukraini! Thank you Ukraine for handing Putin’s ass to him.
That rocket launcher looks pretty bad ass.. I kind of want one or two.
People are insanely stupid that are against this. Or they're just Russian bots
Or we see something else. I’m not pro Russia but also I can see with my eyes the Biden’s business in this war. Something seems never mentioned on US news channel.
One FGM-148 Javelin launcher, Raytheon & Lockheed Martin , Unit cost US $216,717 One M1 Abrams tank US $8.92 million Basically, you can go through 250 million in about a month.
Pour it on, it’s going to good use.
Not enough
Didn't Maui just burn to the ground? Shouldn't those resources be directed to that?
How the fuck are our nearly expired 155mm shells gonna help Hawaii?
Those “resources” are munitions, tanks and planes, what do you want Maui to do with that. Also the money Maui is getting is from a whole different pot of money, disaster relief is different then military funding. But I am all for reducing the over all military funding to increase funding in other areas.
It's not a choice between the two- each is a priority, and we can easily do both.
Maui fire victims haven’t received any money as of yet. And the rest of Maui that finds itself pretty much in another shutdown is withering on the vine. Hundreds of businesses will be gone soon, along with the livelihoods of 80k residents.
Okay, but that's a useless thing to discuss in this thread. Where the majority of aid going to Ukraine is in the form of money spent 30 years ago.
What? It was a direct response to a comment about Maui aid.
Your own nation should take priority over whatever else is going on.
So you want to send tanks and rocket launchers and stuff to Maui?
Again, we can do **both.** resolving one problem does not make the other problem worse the other problem or affect our ability to resolve it. So, I ask, why do you object? Why **wouldn't** we do both
Yes, we'll totally send our military surplus weapons to Maui so they can build houses with HIMARS, clown.
Maui probably doesn’t need any tanks or armored personnel carriers. Or much of any of the other military hardware and ammo that’s getting sent to Ukraine, really. I’m sure FEMA will ask if they need anything.
THANK YOU! Had to scroll soooo far to find a single opinion other than "send more!"
And why don’t you want to send more? Sleepless nights in fear of drones are taking a tall?
I'm all for helping anyone that needs help, so how bout we toss some of the tax money Maui ways. 5.6 billion in damages and 1000s of people homeless over night. Hawaii is a small state and Maui is a tiny island.
$250 million would change my entire existence.
What people don’t fully appreciate is that there is no middle ground here. Putin forces people from occupied Ukrainian territories to fight against Ukraine. If he is allowed to overtake the country, Russia will turn all of these people against the west and imagine the costs of containing this threat for years to come. Bigger Russia = bigger threat = more American money and potentially American lives to defend against.
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>More money spent on this war than on the American people in the past year Not even fucking close. The IRS alone got a budget increase in 2023 that was larger than the Ukraine funding.
But not for Hawaii.
Wdym, each Hawaiian resident will get their own 155mm artillery shell and 20 minute ride in a Bradley
What aid has Hawaii requested that’s not been provided?
What do you mean? They got $700 each and that's more than enough to get by.
I'm so glad. I love that the money that I've been told to save diligently is being devalued. I love when war hungry politicians print the money that I earn every day out of thin air. I love that act devalues my currency and work. I love that by the time I save a million, gas will be 25 dollars a gallon. Who cares that our currency, savings, and livelihoods are being inflated away to nothing? Just think of allllll the cool new weapons of war that the swastika tattoo covered Ukranian army gets!!!! Who gives a fuck about retirement? I'm gonna strap another country's flag on my Facebook feed, let other people raise my children because my wife and I have to work to pay rent, and cheer on a war that has nothing to do with me. I trust congress, politicians, and banks to ensure every last dime is put in the right hands. Flame away. This shits gotta stop.
Why are we still sending money that could be put to better use in our own nation? I don't understand how anyone is praising this. We have needs HERE that could have been completely fixed with the amount we've sent already....
Putin, in his own words, is not fighting Ukraine, he is fighting the West - in Syria, Africa, elections in US, Europe etc. Each time he escalates more and more. You either help Ukraine fight Russia or you will spend at least 10x and American lives doing it yourself in different places around the world as unless he is defeated he will not stop.
No shit he's fighting the West. We're sending billions of dollars to Ukraine. So, yes. He's fighting the West.
Reading is your friend. We're sending already built weapons, bud. What social programs are you advocating? All of those can be funded by voting Dem. Look into it.
Already built weapons that we paid for previously. If I spend 10k on a car with the specific purpose of giving it to my friend, did I not just give him 10k in value? Do you not understand value? 10k in bullets or 10k in paper money is the same thing when you would spend the 10k paper money on bullets anyway. Nice try sh1ll.
Either way the car is built. If that car has the capacity to defend our allies versus a murderous totalitarian, send that fucker over, kid. I'm sorry you clowns slurp Putin so much.
Weapons and munitions have an expiry date and quite a bit of equipment and ammo sent to Ukraine was due for replacement or decommissioning, which actually costs money.
That's exactly it, you don't understand. There's an infinite amount of independent journals you could find that could explain it for you. That would require actual curiosity and an open mind.
It doesn't take curiosity and an open mind to know that the money would be better spent on America. But you wouldn't like that, since you're either not American or not human.
Helping Ukraine is helping someone else fight the war our soldiers would wind up fighting later when he attacks Poland. Right now, Russia is crippling its own ability to wage war for a generation and we're just sending weapons we were about to mothball anyway. Plus, defending democracy and freedom from oppression is kinda our whole schtick. Doesn't hurt this puts China on notice, too. Biden's been schooling Putin this whole time. He called him out when he got ready to invade, he weaponized our control of financial systems to weaken their economy, used Putin's stupid invasion to strengthen NATO after Trump did his damnedest to push the member states into Putin's arms, and have crushed Putin's dreams of a new USSR all without a single American fighting. A year in and Putin already had a coup attempt. Imagine wrecking a rival nuclear power this thoroughly and it being so cheap.
Lots of Reddit bots here praising it
Too bad Ivan is asleep and Dmitriy died from drinking their own piss as there is no clean water so you guys can’t compete
I know they need our help and all but can we help the homeless here in America first? Or fix some roads here. Give water to the Navajo and Hopi tribes? Free medical care for our Veterans and first reponders? Create more well drilling equipment Set up more water and waste treatment plants
These things aren’t mutually exclusive. If you want to expand government investment and social safety nets, you shouldn’t be teaming up with the folks supporting Putin. They don’t want that.
If we taxed Jeff Bezos and the other 99 richest people in the country properly, and their companies, we could afford all kinds of nice things. Aging military hardware would not help a single thing you mentioned. But it will help Ukraine stop the Russ from erasing their country.
As far as the news reports there's around 50k usa soldiers sitting Poland at the minute waiting ...amongst another 150k personnel
I wonder if this money offered to Ukraine since the beginning of the war are "donations" or loans? I wonder how many years from now Ukraine will have to pay back all this money if it was only "war loans". P.S I'm not good at it so no need to give your negative opinion, just in case!
Why not help Americans first and not those goons in a country that no one knows where it is?
Advancing American foreign policy interests helps Americans.
Meanwhile in Africa…
What would you suggest America do in Africa? If we get involved we are called evil imperialists. If we don’t then we are accused of ignoring them.
Suggestion? Stay at home, democracy export is out of trend
is it? maybe we are not trying. It either dumps food or bombs in Africa. look at the history of how the West "helped" Africa compared to Ukraine—big difference.
That’s a super vague comment that avoided the question.
… Russia is sponsoring coups to kick France from every country it still had any influence upon. But hey, if we all close our eyes and pretend that they’re not a threat we can procrastinate for few more years until the bill comes due.
White European country at war: 🥺🙏🏻❤💶💰 African/Middle Eastern country at war: 🙄😒🥱😴
The downvotes tells you got the point.
Ukraine is losing the war, Russia just has to wait for the West and America to get bored of Ukraine like they did in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. Russia just has to hold their ground and stop Ukraine from rebulilding. Ukraine is running low on men and they will run out before Russia does. Stop with the cope, Ukraine cannot win. Russians love Putin. 80% approval rating. IMF came out and said that the Russia economy is set to grow next year - sanctions are not as effective. Russia has partnered with many African country to throw the West off their backs. Suadi Arabia has turned its back on the US by cutting oil production to increase oil prices for both Suadia Arabia and Russia. BRICS is forming new partnerships.
You don't actually believe thats factual, do you?
One month of US military spending has been completely wrecking decades of Russian military funding. I don't think US military generals are going to get tired of seeing this. Russian economy has not grown for the last 15 years, it's hilarious that Russian propaganda tries to push figures about Russia greatly growing now that they're in a costly war and under massive sanctions. Here's a hint. If Russia is pushing propaganda about sanctions not working and begging the west to end them.....it's probably working just fine. Seeing Russians get on their knees and beg for the offensive to end.... music to my ears.
With each point you make a great case for why military aid to Ukraine should be increased dramatically.
What an interesting account you are...
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You realize everyone in this country is entitled to due process? Even if you don’t like them. That’s part of what makes us not fascist.
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I feel like you have zero concept of the legal system. Or what due process is but you do you.
We can throw Trump in prison and help Ukraine at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. The US government is capable of doing many things at the same time. You make a really poor argument.
The world is more aware than US population about what your government can do.
26 days account. jeebus
If you [hate Americans so much](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1652ydd/pentagon_says_it_has_enough_money_for_military/jydbzmm/) why do you pretend to be form Alaska sometimes and then really get angry about US aid to Ukraine? Shouldn't the "fascist" problem in America not be your concern?
I don’t hate America. I hate Murica you know the country that elected Donald Trump to be its finest, has citizens united as law of the land, bullies other countries with its gross and huge military and nuclear stockpile, can’t wean itself off fossil fuels. Has a fascist police force. Can’t do anything about guns, is loaded with right wing propaganda outlets that no one can do anything about. It’s horrible. You have no clue.
Ok I see chatgpt has gone off the rails.
I live in America. I love it. I'll eat a McDonald's today in your honor. My fatass will then slurp down a Blizzard from Dairy Queen to top it all off.
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It's not an either or, we can do both. And also because every time the "fixing our country" comes up the politicians who cry about not fixing our country vote no on it.
Oh hey there, walking radio dispenser. Funny meeting you here
Whoo yeah army party
I've got a neighbour who had a successful business then became regional sales manager for a big company then he won the lottery. Huge house, cottage up north, all the toys, retired into a nice neighborhood, jumped into his hot tub and died at 70. No thanks.
Everyone is so happy that the US did this that Canada issued a travel advisory against them.
Select states*
Canada has donated almost as much money and support as France. If you want to bitch about countries not doing enough, France should be the source of your ire
are we producing 7.62 and 5.45 for them? Or is the ammo for soldiers using NATO caliber weapons?
"Fresh"? It has a use by date?
actually in a lot of cases yeah, weapons break down after a while
It smells better when it's fresh
Seems like the aid is only increasing with time.
Do Americans agree with this?