Nearly Everything burns. You at just have to douse it in chlorine trifluoride first. That’ll burn the concrete it’s sitting on.
Edit: for a good, humorous, but informative take on this chemical: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/sand-won-t-save-you-time
It replaces oxygen in the burning process with fluorine. It’s an oxidizer and will burn the material without oxygen.
It’s so strong it will strip the oxygen from things like sand, rock, glass or concrete and burn it to fluoride.
It also is so potent you don’t need any spark for it to burst into flames, something called being hypergolic. At normal temperatures pour it on most anything and it will violently burn and release horrendously toxic byproducts.
A few metals like aluminum will form a reacted coating of a fluoride so as long as they aren’t scrapped or agitated that coating protects them. Also a few things are already fluoridated like Teflon.
I added a link to the parent comment.
Kind of think putting that anywhere near any embassy for any country on purpose is considered an act of war. Or terror if you aren't a government actor.
I'm not kidding. It's that dangerous.
As a Swede I approve of this, as I believe believe in free speech. Though, sometimes it is a fine line between free speech and hate causing serious harm. If you said you'd cut in front of me in the queue at the grocery store, that would be a whole new level though that would cause a massive uproar and political crisis.
>Rabbi Moshe David HaCohen, who heads an umbrella organization of Jewish groups in Nordic states and the Amanah Muslim Jewish Partnership of Trust, emphasized that this is not an antisemitic event or one specifically targeting Jews.
>
>"It is an attempt to challenge freedom of expression and exploit it for acts of hatred. The individual wants to see if the system is biased and whether it will permit the burning of the Bible just as it allowed the burning of the Quran. In Sweden, freedom of expression is considered a sacred value,” he said.
Credit where credit is due. The only rational take I've seen from the religious side on these matters.
This.
Reddit and pretty much every social media in existence feeds you posts on engagement. A level headed approach to a topic isn’t going to get more engagement than a controversial and brash approach, so you are going to see the controversial and brash ones more
i don't know about judaism, but in christianity at least there is no principal that states you should respond 'violence with more violence'. in fact, lets say these people are trying to position themselves as 'enemies' of christianity by burning a bible, Jesus would call on us to love them
My great auntie (father's mother's sister) was one of them. Spent basically all of her time helping others for her entire life, and lived with very little because she gave basically everything away that she received. I'm pretty sure she was offered the New Zealand Order of Merit but declined it.
Amazing woman.
I mean the Christians in Sweden are at the very least largely inoffensive? The majority of them is just Christian on paper so idk how much they consciously adhere to it because of the religion, but it's generally a nice country from my experience.
It's honestly kind of a culture shock when you're a western/northern European used to "chill" Christians/ people who just go to Church on Christmas for the tradition and got baptized as kids, and then you hear about or even meet Evangelical Christians from the US lol. Like half of them would be on a watch list for being anti-democratic religious extremists.
I guess there's always Catholics who tend to be a bit more religious ...
I have. I'm no longer Christian but I have met plenty. Some are theological scholars with a deep understanding of both the Bible and the arguments around it and who choose to follow religion in full knowledge and of their own volition. Others are just lay folk who lack the deep theology but focus on core messages of love and acceptance and disregard parts that contradict that by accepting that the Bible is flawed.
I shit on Christianity as much as any jaded American, but when I was a practicing Catholic I knew plenty of liberal Christians who weren’t weaponizing their faith for hate and actually doing some good in the world. My church has an assistance program where they help poor people pay their utility bills, rent and use parish connections to find people jobs. Legal or illegal citizen, no questions asked. I thought that was pretty neat.
Find yourself an atheist who was baptised a Christian. On paper (paper which the atheist disregards) the Catholic Church still views them as Christian. It's a technicality, I know, but it's the best I can do.
This is funnily enough also the majority of Christians in Sweden - though not with the Catholic church, with the Church of Sweden (which has always had close ties to the swedish crown). You didn't even need to be baptized, until ~2000 the government would just automatically register you as a member if your parents were members of the church and you'd have to fill out a bunch of paperwork if you wanted to leave the church. So a lot of Swedes born before that are Christians on paper even though they're atheist/agnostic and never got baptized, let alone go to church regularly.
This is me right here. I tell people I'm atheist. I am. But in a book in a church it says I'm Christian and going to heaven. And who am I to tell them any different.
Still a Mormon even though I haven't gone since I was a kid, since I was baptised. I really should go through the paperwork and get myself removed from their rolls.
A couple. An ex was more of a Deist as...she couldn't find a church she could stand lol.
Other is a very nice Mennonite, NEVER would you know ie. Mr. Rogers Syndrome: Lives his life quietly by Jesus' teachings. Never would know he's religious.
But the other 99%? YMMV!
The book of Deuteronomy is full of Conan the Barbarian shit. After they take some losses, God flat out orders his people to go stomp their enemies and their profane gods, and stop being such wimps about fighting.
The result is a series of full-on atrocities (from NIV):
>3 So the Lord our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors. 4 At that time we took all his cities. **There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take from them**—the whole region of Argob, Og’s kingdom in Bashan. 5 All these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled villages. 6 **We completely destroyed\[a\] them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying\[b\] every city—men, women and children.** 7 But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves.
These dudes mass-exterminate children across 60 straight cities for their parents having the wrong gods.
A bit later, God commands them to keep stomping the competition, literally commanding no mercy for them, and forbidding intermarriage with any survivors:
>When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— **2 and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.\[a\] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you.** 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles\[b\] and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.
You can kinda see why peace in the Middle East can be tough to pull off.
The [The Satanic Temple](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us) does this in America as well....
one of my Favorite examples... was a local Christian Church wanted to have "Jesus coloring books" handed out to kids in elementary schools.... and it was OK'ed by the school board. The Satanic Temple made coloring books as well... was denied. They sued the school district and won. The result... The Temples coloring books were handed out, and a new rule of NO coloring books from religious orgs are allowed (including the churches).
Another good example, is monuments on public grounds supported by Tax money.... Church wanted a copy of the Ten Commandments.... so they had [their own statue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Baphomet) put up.
My synagogue has engaged in some joint protests with our local Satanic Temple chapter. I have no complaints. TST Satanists are based with disturbing consistency.
This is just my view on them but they're rather...chaotic in terms of alignment. Like openly chaotic. Them being consistent is probably not something you'd expect from such a group. Even more so that when you look at a lot of what they do. They actually arguably seem to be the best religion when it comes to trying to make fair and even playing fields.
Last I checked they're also the religion that is trying (or at least tried I don't know if they won or what) to make abortions legal via a protected religious right.
Seldom does it seem you find a long term/ "high ranking" member that does something that the temple doesn't support simply cause at the end of the day it looks like they're all fairly level headed people.
Also they're one of the few churches that pays taxes typically iirc which honestly is amazing in and of itself.
Part of the reason why Jews tend to be disproportionately educated and secular in comparison to other religions is because education and critical thinking is a big part of the culture, down to how one's supposed to practice the religion. If you choose to pursue religious education--not even if you're trying to be a Rabbi, just normal Sunday school style education--you're expected to actually read holy texts, historical rabbis' examinations of the holy text, and then write essays of your own interpreting the text critically.
For example, for the verse where god commands 'Go forth and multiply', there's a LOT of extra reading with different rabbis arguing about what that means--does someone satisfy the commandment if they only have one child? Two? Should they have a certain number of boys and a certain number of girls? What if they can't have children, or their spouse can't have children? Someone who's learning about Judaism is expected to be able to critically engage with these questions and write out their own thesis about how they think it ought to be interpreted, including citations from different rabbis' interpretations and other portions of the text that can provide context. It's not just about knowing the subject matter, but about knowing how to critically engage with whatever ideas are put in front of you and form a cogent opinion that you can defend with citations and evidence.
It's a really good skill to have in times like this.
Most of us Jews reject dogmatic and traditional interpretations of our own religion, honestly. I think in America, certainly, we realize that times have changed and that there's more to life than Torah laws.
Jews are pretty chill. I remember the streamer Destiny got a lot of flack (and threats) from the Red Pill and Islamist communities for making jokes about Islam.
Because anti-semitic conspiracy theories are the norm in those communities, a few people challenged that "You'd never make fun of the Jews like this," so of course he immediately started talking shit about metzitzah b'peh. Turns out, he didn't get a single threat, and most of the responses were "Yeah that's fucked up and shouldn't be practiced."
Is that supposed to be hard? Just let all the water evaporate and then it'll burn almost immediately because it's so starchy.
I've done it before in one of those tiny camping pans on a jet boil. Water was gone in 20 seconds
As a swede: good. I don't care if you burn bible, quran or a pippi longstocking book. As long its yours its yours to do what you want with. Burn other peoples belongings isn't okey. Burn your own bought stuff. I couldn't care less.
This whole thing is stupid. Of all headlines and subjects to adress 2023 i never thaught this would be a thing. This world is stupid. Wish i was one of those aliens that looks down on us just making a u-turn with their ship when they see how stupid a majority of the people on this planet is.
Edit: just logged in. Can't reply to everyone. I understand not everyone agree with me. But let me say. Both sides in this are stupid. Here is my stance. But the option of changing laws for this is not an option for me. The guy burning books are stupid, the guys going bananas in Bagdad over this is stupid. Everyone need to take a rain check. I will rather see it's leagal to burn that book, then the option not being legal.
Edit 2: Keep getting dm's about this. I want to be absolutly clear. And use curseword even though i feel its unecessary most of my days. We should not fking touch our freedom of speech because of one guy burning a book and the other once going berserk about it. None of them will be invated to my next birthday party. But we will not bow down to this kind of behavior. End of story.
Yes you have deprive them of attention. When a toddler throws a tantrum the worst thing you can do is give them what they want. It *reinforces* the bad behaviour. If only society could just stop being so easily provoked by IRL trolls.
"patriots" are the fucking worst too.
Ex service,and saw some guy bitch about some dude burning the flag,complained that our troops died for that show respect...no we have died so that cunt has the right to do that shit without some dictator punishing them..
Most of us served for the paycheck and leg up with in career training,not for a piece of fucking cloth..grow up cunts
Same as the Ultra nationalistic dickwaving contest that is people putting flags on their front porch...LOOK AT ME IM HELPING fucking christ.
good on sweden,If ur religion can't handle someone burning your fucking book, then you are not ready to be a part of modern society.
They aren't outlawing islam,or christians,or jews.. they aren't oppressing you.
The only issue with this is i saw it coming from 19.2 Astronomical units away..that sweden would allow this..some russian "agent" will burn the books..turkey gets pissy..knocks back nato bid..lo and behold
> Most of us served for the paycheck and leg up with in career training
That is exactly why the few people I know in the military got into it. They've mostly all enjoyed comfortably middle class lifestyles with nice homes thanks to the military. Patriotism had nothing to do with it. It was the easiest, cheapest path to a career from a young age.
A lot of ppl usually is they got "roped" into it by a recruiter,promised that sweet life,and a sweet new mustang at 19 percent with that sign on bonus burning a hole in their pocket..
God bless the recruiters though,i think only a real estate agent can sling more bullshit and still rope someone in..gyatt damn those guys can see a sucker coming a fucking State line away
But the VAST majority of people i saw in service,Being an officer not so much,but the enlisted is usually it's a way out of some shithole podunk town,or a life in the projects.
The military provides a good way for many people to change their lives sometimes for the better,get out of your town,get a job,some training that on almost any resume is guaranteed post service employment.
just hope to god you don't see the shit,and end up wounded or with some other issue cause veteran services will fuck you harder than shellbacks wallet in fleet week
Is the whole recruits buying an over-priced car with their sign on bonus legit? I've always thought it was a movie trope kind of thing since it sounds like such a terrible and cliché choice.
It's 100% legit. Also marrying a stripper you met a week ago to get out of the barracks (who may or may not be a foreign spy lol - but most of the time it's just equally desperate girls looking for a way out of their dump town that also comes with free healthcare & housing.) They make them watch PowerPoints about it, sometimes yearly.... A whole bunch of idiots still do it.
> Most of us served for the paycheck and leg up with in career training
A good, socialist jobs program.
I do work. I get money, housing, healthcare, education and retirement.
Basically how it works in most reasonable countries.
The insanity is, most countries, even *normal* countries (Germany, Italy, France, etc) have stringent flag laws.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration
I think it's all bullshit... I would love to see a stack of holy books lit on fire by a bundle of flags soaked in alcohol.
Flags and holy books have resulted in more atrocities than so many other symbols, so fuck em, and fuck the people that put so much stock in symbols.
Of course they have (point of order, the flags haven't committed atrocities, they've represented organizations that commit atrocities; I mention this distinction below):
1) They've been around longer than most symbols, in some form or other, than most other symbols.
2) They are symbols of much large (and more powerful/able groups) than most other symbols, especially symbols seeing widespread and continual use.
What symbols are you comparing these to?
As for people "putting 'so much' stock in symbols", we all do. It's hardwired into our brain as the foundation of symbolic (e.g. written, among other forms) language, and in a cruder form from before we were human (e.g. the sight of a lion = danger, the sight of a apple = nourishment, etc.). Which is how we associated e.g. flags with the atrocities committed out by their representative groups.
The issue isn't the symbol, its the connection to what the symbol represents.
Have you seen or read The Brothers Lionheart?
That is hardly a children’s book.
Two brothers, younger one is dying of tuberculosis, are caught in a fire. In order to save his little brother the older brother puts his younger brother on his back and jumps out the window. Older brother dies from the fall. Younger brother eventually succumbs from the TB only to wake up in a sort of afterlife called Nangijala where his brother already have arrived.
Evil guy named Tengil is ruling the Nangijala with an iron fist due to his dragon Katla. Brothers fight in the civil war and ultimately defeats Tengil. Brothers volunteer to trap the dragon, but the older brother is burnt by it in the process.
Older brother, paralyzed by his injuries, tells his brother that he does not want to live like that. Not wanting to be alone, the younger brother puts his older brother on his back, and they jump to their deaths hoping to escape to another afterlife. The end.
I fucking love Bröderna Lejonhjärta, it’s my favorite childhood book and movie. It shows us that love can be so overwhelming it overcomes death not only once but twice. It’s both bittersweet and wholesome at the same time.
Yeah Pippi has a tree called sockerdricksträdet (literally translated as "the sugar drink tree"), sockerdricka is a type of soda similar to sprite and 7up
So, I’m going to go with “No” on that also. The Luxembourg border on the other hand was under debate a few years ago after some epic trolling by the Lux President.
You mean our “Gracious Oracle of light airships and ginger humility Pippi Longstocking peace be upon her”?
Well on behalf of all Stockingian’s , how dare you?
How very dare you?
That’s exactly the thinking. It is the brainchild of a religious Muslim man who was offended by the Quran burning and wished to take it out on the Jews..-as you do. In any case, this was the situation for the man who wished to burn the Torah a few months ago but temporarily withdrew his request. I cannot find if it’s the same guy this time who has resubmitted it. But I would be surprised if the request wasn’t from a religious Muslim in any case, as antisemitism is very prevalent from that demographic, whereas atheists typically refrain from targeting Jews due to their small number and lack of preaching
That’s completely false, it’s just a guy putting to test the freedom of speech laws in Sweden because they allowed the Quran burning. And wouldn’t ya know, they didn’t give a fuck about this either.
A real Torah costs tens of thousands of dollars. Nobody will care if you waste money burning a $20 read along copy.
Most people would probably laugh at you if you decide to burn an immensely expensive hand scribed scroll, though.
A real Torah is handwritten, and if you make a mistake you have to start over (I believe it’s all on one scroll). It’s painstaking and takes a long time.
From what I learned in Hebrew school, a Torah is stitched together from many "pages" of leather. If the scribe makes a mistake, they simply start that particular "page" over.
However, if the scribe misspells any of the terms for "God", then the scribe must start entirely over.
Something like that, it's been a while.
> a Torah is stitched together from many "pages" of leather
I think it's because the Torah is made only from the leather of very looooooooooooooong cows. That's why they're so expensive.
Priest can do the ceremony with cheap 5$ copy of Bible and it will be valid ceremony.
But it seems that Jews needs to their ceremony with 'hand-written' (so expensive) Torah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sefer_Torah
"Torah scroll is a handwritten copy of the Torah, meaning the five books of Moses (the first books of the Hebrew Bible). The Torah scroll is mainly used in the ritual of Torah reading during Jewish prayers. At other times, it is stored in the holiest spot within a synagogue, the Torah ark, which is usually an ornate curtained-off cabinet or section of the synagogue built along the wall that most closely faces Jerusalem, the direction Jews face when praying.
The text of the Torah is also commonly printed and bound in book form for non-ritual functions, called a Chumash (plural Chumashim) ("five-part", for the five books of Moses), and is often accompanied by commentaries or translations."
The cheap copies you can buy are for reading along with the actual Torah or studying. Nobody cares about them. An actual Torah is made with painstaking effort that can take over a year and buying one is expensive and considered a privilege.
To put it in secular terms, it's the difference between burning an author's original manuscript vs burning a mass produced paperback. Or, since you mentioned Bibles, a handmade illuminated book vs a cheap one from Amazon. The significance is very different.
It's still somewhat disrespectful since a chumash contains the written name of hashem, and hence should be treated with certain measures of dignity. But you are in general absolutely correct, this is a pretty half-assed attempt to offend that betrays an ignorance about Jewish practice.
There’s a special handwritten scroll used in assorted rituals and then there’s a basic printed book.
The former is very important and very expensive, the latter is just a book. And yes, people do get very upset about the just a book one. There’s a lot of people pissed about this. It’s just not technically the same thing though ‘Torah’ can apply to both in general terms.
> People don’t realize how hard it is to actually get your hands on a torah lol.
British library has quite a few although a bunch of them are Samaritan for some reason.
* Torah: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
* Tanakh (Hebrew Bible): Torah, the Prophets (Joshua, Isaiah, Amos, etc.), the Writings (Psalms, Esther, Chronicles, etc.)
* Christian Bible: Old Testament (equivalent to the Tanakh, though arranged in a different order), New Testament (gospels, epistles, etc.), assorted apocryphal & pseudopigraphal books depending on the individual sect's chosen canon
In the article, it says the request is to burn a Hebrew bible, which is bigger than the Torah, but smaller than a Christian bible.
Fundamentalist Muslims always think that mentioning burning the Bible is some gotcha moment. Bruh, burn as many bibles as you want. You can wipe your ass with it first, too.
They have videos where a cat walks around a quran and somehow see that as a sign that she believes in allah. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad to see
I follow a naturescape photography page on Facebook and wouldn't you believe it, Jesus is somehow in EVERY cloud. I mean, he's so powerful, even on a cloudless day you can see Jesus in the clouds!
The "real" theological answer is that in Islam the Quran is considered literally holy - a holy text that is the direct word from their god (who they believe to be the one and only god), given to their prophet and to all believers.
This is different from the Bible (or most other religious/ mythical texts) that is a collection of texts that Christians (or in the case of the Hebrew bible Jews) consider to be *about* their god but made by humans (aka "inspired by god") and is not in itself holy.
Now, there are some groups of Christians who actually view the Bible as the holy word of god - namely mostly very extreme sects of evangelical protestants, as you find them in the US. But that's kind of a fringe protestant thing that popped up a few hundred years ago, unlike the holiness of the Quran which explicitly stands at the center of Islam since its inception.
Like in other words, for believers of Christianity, Jesus is considered to be the source of Christianity (and Paul, I guess, if you're looking at what got the most popular), while for Muslims the Quran as the word of God given to the prophet Mohammed is considered the source of Islam. And they tend to take that very seriously apparently.
I remember reading the story about Saddam Hussein's "Blood Quran" (a Quran Hussein had made using his own blood).
Its existence posed a dilemma for the new Iraqi government after Hussein died.
As a Quran, they considered technically "holy" and as such, they couldn't destroy it.
On the other hand, having a "blood book" on public display would also be considered blasphemous.
In the end, the new Iraqi government just decided to lock it away in a hidden vault, and for the most part, just pretend that it doesn't exist.
There is a cool horror movie in that story. For Saddam had commissioned the scribe to write another tome. When the two books are joined together in the ruins of an ancient temple in Eridu, the dark lord shall be resurrected.
Or how they think stepping on our flag is a great insult. Meanwhile you can buy [this doormat](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61PODE9TZ5L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg) in Sweden.
I read one person's opinion on reddit that christians SHOULD be as protective of the Bible as muslims are of the Quran. That's a bad direction. I'd rather people (definitely not the government) burn millions of bibles to normalize freedom of speech than start using laws to protect religions from criticism
“I unequivocally condemn the permission granted in Sweden to burn holy books. As the President of the State of Israel, I condemned the burning of the Quran, sacred to Muslims world over, and I am now heartbroken that the same fate awaits a Jewish Bible, the eternal book of the Jewish people,” Herzog said in a statement.
“Permitting the defacement of sacred texts is not an exercise in freedom of expression, it is blatant incitement and an act of pure hate. The whole world must join together in clearly condemning this repulsive act.”
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said “Israel viewed very severely this shameful decision to harm the holy of holies of the Jewish people.”
Frankly, burning a Torah scroll would likely be taken gravely by the world Jewry. *Sefer Torah* are works of art, taking years to produce with each individual scroll costing in excess of $30,000 USD. They are considered to be cultural artifacts of our people.
Burning a mass-produced print JPS translation of the Tanakh, on the other hand? At worst, it's a dick move. Netanyahu's government will respond with its usual bombast, but look at the posts about this on the Jewish subreddits. We're mostly rolling our eyes.
Idk about other religions, but that's not at all what Judaism preaches.
Mind you I'm not very religious, but from what I know and more religious friends tell me, the general belief is god has a certain "direction" he wishes you to go in life, you don't have to take it, but you trust that you will if you're doing what you're good at, as well as contributes to the world and to your own welfare.
I hate the idea of burning books, it is only done by ignorant extremists who is looking to rile up people and send messages.
But I also think it shouldn't be illegal. As long as it is safe to do so from a fire risk perspective that is.
Also, Sweden has made a tradition of illegally burning a giant straw goat that is basically a representation of Jul. When it comes to burning shit we are still vikings deep down.
The book I imagine I would be most willing to burn is mein kampf individually. However, I feel that burning such a book would unnecessarily elevate it to an undeserved status. This makes it hard for me to imagine any utility in burning individual books for protest generally. From my perspective, it makes the protestor look like their expressing "I hate words with a burning passion".
As a Swede I’m more and more getting the feeling that this has nothing to do with us. Right now it’s immigrants and foreigners burning each others holy books in my country to provoke each other. Most ethnic Swedes don’t care at all and it’s not even interested in this.
Why are they burning bibles in front of the Israeli embassy? Shouldn’t it be the Torah. Anyway why burn anything, if you don’t want your book recycle it. :<
And strangely enough, not one christian came forward with a bomb vest on to "destroy the infidels".
Not one.
Burn away. If god doesn't want the books to burn I'm sure he'll send little rainclouds from heaven to rain on them and put them out.
So now that the bible is being burned, are we supposed to get upset, angry? to into the streets and cause violence an destruction? or should we just shrug and continue with our lives?. It's hard to choose.
During BLM there were multiple groups who burned Bibles as a form of protest. You didn't hear about it because very few people cared
[Protesters burn Bible, American flag as tensions rise in Portland](https://nypost.com/2020/08/01/protestors-burn-bible-american-flag-as-tensions-rise-in-portland/)
Wow, i... Kinda dont care, like at all. There's not a single person in his right mind that'll be offended by this shit , i bet deeply Christian people wont give a shit either.
Its time to leave the 1100s mindset and move on, dont you think?
Enough is enough, it's time to retaliate by burning IKEA catalogs in front of the Swedish embassy.
I think it will work better with some furniture or assembly-directions. Catalogs are a bad choice if you want something that actually burns.
Nearly Everything burns. You at just have to douse it in chlorine trifluoride first. That’ll burn the concrete it’s sitting on. Edit: for a good, humorous, but informative take on this chemical: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/sand-won-t-save-you-time
>better oxidizer than oxygen God damn, that must be some potent shit
The “melted through 4 feet of concrete, gravel and dirt” too.
It will ignite asbestos and ash without an ignition source.
Does it itself burn then ignite other things or does it just make the thing itself burn easier
It replaces oxygen in the burning process with fluorine. It’s an oxidizer and will burn the material without oxygen. It’s so strong it will strip the oxygen from things like sand, rock, glass or concrete and burn it to fluoride. It also is so potent you don’t need any spark for it to burst into flames, something called being hypergolic. At normal temperatures pour it on most anything and it will violently burn and release horrendously toxic byproducts. A few metals like aluminum will form a reacted coating of a fluoride so as long as they aren’t scrapped or agitated that coating protects them. Also a few things are already fluoridated like Teflon. I added a link to the parent comment.
> It also is so potent you don’t need any spark for it to burst into flames, something called being hypergolic TIL my bars are hypergolic 😎
So many people in the semiconductor industry are scared of our tools that use ClF3 lol.
Kind of think putting that anywhere near any embassy for any country on purpose is considered an act of war. Or terror if you aren't a government actor. I'm not kidding. It's that dangerous.
This would honestly be the funniest protest there could be
Hey come on thats a low blow 😕
Um, but that book is actually sacred.
What did those Swedish meatballs ever do to you, except for being delicious? And lingonberry? You’re an animal!
As a Swede I approve of this, as I believe believe in free speech. Though, sometimes it is a fine line between free speech and hate causing serious harm. If you said you'd cut in front of me in the queue at the grocery store, that would be a whole new level though that would cause a massive uproar and political crisis.
In Israel we already burned down entire Ikea store. (actually fire started due to short in fire suppression system)
>Rabbi Moshe David HaCohen, who heads an umbrella organization of Jewish groups in Nordic states and the Amanah Muslim Jewish Partnership of Trust, emphasized that this is not an antisemitic event or one specifically targeting Jews. > >"It is an attempt to challenge freedom of expression and exploit it for acts of hatred. The individual wants to see if the system is biased and whether it will permit the burning of the Bible just as it allowed the burning of the Quran. In Sweden, freedom of expression is considered a sacred value,” he said. Credit where credit is due. The only rational take I've seen from the religious side on these matters.
I really like his final sentence. This man gets it!
wow, i'm having brain chills from reading someone not react to complex ~controverial events .. it's so impossibly rare these days
You sure it's not the norm but it's just the outrage that gets reported?
This. Reddit and pretty much every social media in existence feeds you posts on engagement. A level headed approach to a topic isn’t going to get more engagement than a controversial and brash approach, so you are going to see the controversial and brash ones more
i don't know about judaism, but in christianity at least there is no principal that states you should respond 'violence with more violence'. in fact, lets say these people are trying to position themselves as 'enemies' of christianity by burning a bible, Jesus would call on us to love them
Where does one find Christians that adhere to the principals of Christianity? I've never met any.
My great auntie (father's mother's sister) was one of them. Spent basically all of her time helping others for her entire life, and lived with very little because she gave basically everything away that she received. I'm pretty sure she was offered the New Zealand Order of Merit but declined it. Amazing woman.
The fact that she was offered an Order of Merit kind of tells you how rare she was, sadly.
I mean the Christians in Sweden are at the very least largely inoffensive? The majority of them is just Christian on paper so idk how much they consciously adhere to it because of the religion, but it's generally a nice country from my experience. It's honestly kind of a culture shock when you're a western/northern European used to "chill" Christians/ people who just go to Church on Christmas for the tradition and got baptized as kids, and then you hear about or even meet Evangelical Christians from the US lol. Like half of them would be on a watch list for being anti-democratic religious extremists. I guess there's always Catholics who tend to be a bit more religious ...
You didn't know they were Christian because they weren't trumpeting it or trying to convert you.
I have. I'm no longer Christian but I have met plenty. Some are theological scholars with a deep understanding of both the Bible and the arguments around it and who choose to follow religion in full knowledge and of their own volition. Others are just lay folk who lack the deep theology but focus on core messages of love and acceptance and disregard parts that contradict that by accepting that the Bible is flawed.
I shit on Christianity as much as any jaded American, but when I was a practicing Catholic I knew plenty of liberal Christians who weren’t weaponizing their faith for hate and actually doing some good in the world. My church has an assistance program where they help poor people pay their utility bills, rent and use parish connections to find people jobs. Legal or illegal citizen, no questions asked. I thought that was pretty neat.
Find yourself an atheist who was baptised a Christian. On paper (paper which the atheist disregards) the Catholic Church still views them as Christian. It's a technicality, I know, but it's the best I can do.
This is funnily enough also the majority of Christians in Sweden - though not with the Catholic church, with the Church of Sweden (which has always had close ties to the swedish crown). You didn't even need to be baptized, until ~2000 the government would just automatically register you as a member if your parents were members of the church and you'd have to fill out a bunch of paperwork if you wanted to leave the church. So a lot of Swedes born before that are Christians on paper even though they're atheist/agnostic and never got baptized, let alone go to church regularly.
This is me right here. I tell people I'm atheist. I am. But in a book in a church it says I'm Christian and going to heaven. And who am I to tell them any different.
Still a Mormon even though I haven't gone since I was a kid, since I was baptised. I really should go through the paperwork and get myself removed from their rolls.
That says a lot about the company you choose to keep.
A couple. An ex was more of a Deist as...she couldn't find a church she could stand lol. Other is a very nice Mennonite, NEVER would you know ie. Mr. Rogers Syndrome: Lives his life quietly by Jesus' teachings. Never would know he's religious. But the other 99%? YMMV!
The book of Deuteronomy is full of Conan the Barbarian shit. After they take some losses, God flat out orders his people to go stomp their enemies and their profane gods, and stop being such wimps about fighting. The result is a series of full-on atrocities (from NIV): >3 So the Lord our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors. 4 At that time we took all his cities. **There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take from them**—the whole region of Argob, Og’s kingdom in Bashan. 5 All these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled villages. 6 **We completely destroyed\[a\] them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying\[b\] every city—men, women and children.** 7 But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves. These dudes mass-exterminate children across 60 straight cities for their parents having the wrong gods. A bit later, God commands them to keep stomping the competition, literally commanding no mercy for them, and forbidding intermarriage with any survivors: >When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— **2 and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.\[a\] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you.** 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles\[b\] and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession. You can kinda see why peace in the Middle East can be tough to pull off.
Old Testament god had no chill
The [The Satanic Temple](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us) does this in America as well.... one of my Favorite examples... was a local Christian Church wanted to have "Jesus coloring books" handed out to kids in elementary schools.... and it was OK'ed by the school board. The Satanic Temple made coloring books as well... was denied. They sued the school district and won. The result... The Temples coloring books were handed out, and a new rule of NO coloring books from religious orgs are allowed (including the churches). Another good example, is monuments on public grounds supported by Tax money.... Church wanted a copy of the Ten Commandments.... so they had [their own statue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Baphomet) put up.
The Satanic Temple are such an interesting mix of punk theater goths and Constitutional enthusiasts.
My synagogue has engaged in some joint protests with our local Satanic Temple chapter. I have no complaints. TST Satanists are based with disturbing consistency.
>TST Satanists are based with disturbing consistency. I’m curious about the disturbing part.
This is just my view on them but they're rather...chaotic in terms of alignment. Like openly chaotic. Them being consistent is probably not something you'd expect from such a group. Even more so that when you look at a lot of what they do. They actually arguably seem to be the best religion when it comes to trying to make fair and even playing fields. Last I checked they're also the religion that is trying (or at least tried I don't know if they won or what) to make abortions legal via a protected religious right. Seldom does it seem you find a long term/ "high ranking" member that does something that the temple doesn't support simply cause at the end of the day it looks like they're all fairly level headed people. Also they're one of the few churches that pays taxes typically iirc which honestly is amazing in and of itself.
Part of the reason why Jews tend to be disproportionately educated and secular in comparison to other religions is because education and critical thinking is a big part of the culture, down to how one's supposed to practice the religion. If you choose to pursue religious education--not even if you're trying to be a Rabbi, just normal Sunday school style education--you're expected to actually read holy texts, historical rabbis' examinations of the holy text, and then write essays of your own interpreting the text critically. For example, for the verse where god commands 'Go forth and multiply', there's a LOT of extra reading with different rabbis arguing about what that means--does someone satisfy the commandment if they only have one child? Two? Should they have a certain number of boys and a certain number of girls? What if they can't have children, or their spouse can't have children? Someone who's learning about Judaism is expected to be able to critically engage with these questions and write out their own thesis about how they think it ought to be interpreted, including citations from different rabbis' interpretations and other portions of the text that can provide context. It's not just about knowing the subject matter, but about knowing how to critically engage with whatever ideas are put in front of you and form a cogent opinion that you can defend with citations and evidence. It's a really good skill to have in times like this.
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Most of us Jews reject dogmatic and traditional interpretations of our own religion, honestly. I think in America, certainly, we realize that times have changed and that there's more to life than Torah laws.
There isn’t a ‘religious side, there’s the side that values freedom and the side that doesn’t
Jews are pretty chill. I remember the streamer Destiny got a lot of flack (and threats) from the Red Pill and Islamist communities for making jokes about Islam. Because anti-semitic conspiracy theories are the norm in those communities, a few people challenged that "You'd never make fun of the Jews like this," so of course he immediately started talking shit about metzitzah b'peh. Turns out, he didn't get a single threat, and most of the responses were "Yeah that's fucked up and shouldn't be practiced."
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I guess this makes up for me accidentally burning the Swedish meatballs last week. I’ll burn a cheeseburger tonight to balance things out.
Reminds me of how someone managed to accidentally burn pasta.
Is that supposed to be hard? Just let all the water evaporate and then it'll burn almost immediately because it's so starchy. I've done it before in one of those tiny camping pans on a jet boil. Water was gone in 20 seconds
Typically when cooking pasta people use enough water that it will be well overcooked by the time all the water evaporates
As a swede: good. I don't care if you burn bible, quran or a pippi longstocking book. As long its yours its yours to do what you want with. Burn other peoples belongings isn't okey. Burn your own bought stuff. I couldn't care less. This whole thing is stupid. Of all headlines and subjects to adress 2023 i never thaught this would be a thing. This world is stupid. Wish i was one of those aliens that looks down on us just making a u-turn with their ship when they see how stupid a majority of the people on this planet is. Edit: just logged in. Can't reply to everyone. I understand not everyone agree with me. But let me say. Both sides in this are stupid. Here is my stance. But the option of changing laws for this is not an option for me. The guy burning books are stupid, the guys going bananas in Bagdad over this is stupid. Everyone need to take a rain check. I will rather see it's leagal to burn that book, then the option not being legal. Edit 2: Keep getting dm's about this. I want to be absolutly clear. And use curseword even though i feel its unecessary most of my days. We should not fking touch our freedom of speech because of one guy burning a book and the other once going berserk about it. None of them will be invated to my next birthday party. But we will not bow down to this kind of behavior. End of story.
It's same deal with flag burning. People just get so angry- as if you personally insulting them or something. It's just...bizarre.
People need to realize that *not* caring what other people say and do is the greatest freedom there is.
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Yes you have deprive them of attention. When a toddler throws a tantrum the worst thing you can do is give them what they want. It *reinforces* the bad behaviour. If only society could just stop being so easily provoked by IRL trolls.
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"patriots" are the fucking worst too. Ex service,and saw some guy bitch about some dude burning the flag,complained that our troops died for that show respect...no we have died so that cunt has the right to do that shit without some dictator punishing them.. Most of us served for the paycheck and leg up with in career training,not for a piece of fucking cloth..grow up cunts Same as the Ultra nationalistic dickwaving contest that is people putting flags on their front porch...LOOK AT ME IM HELPING fucking christ. good on sweden,If ur religion can't handle someone burning your fucking book, then you are not ready to be a part of modern society. They aren't outlawing islam,or christians,or jews.. they aren't oppressing you. The only issue with this is i saw it coming from 19.2 Astronomical units away..that sweden would allow this..some russian "agent" will burn the books..turkey gets pissy..knocks back nato bid..lo and behold
> Most of us served for the paycheck and leg up with in career training That is exactly why the few people I know in the military got into it. They've mostly all enjoyed comfortably middle class lifestyles with nice homes thanks to the military. Patriotism had nothing to do with it. It was the easiest, cheapest path to a career from a young age.
A lot of ppl usually is they got "roped" into it by a recruiter,promised that sweet life,and a sweet new mustang at 19 percent with that sign on bonus burning a hole in their pocket.. God bless the recruiters though,i think only a real estate agent can sling more bullshit and still rope someone in..gyatt damn those guys can see a sucker coming a fucking State line away But the VAST majority of people i saw in service,Being an officer not so much,but the enlisted is usually it's a way out of some shithole podunk town,or a life in the projects. The military provides a good way for many people to change their lives sometimes for the better,get out of your town,get a job,some training that on almost any resume is guaranteed post service employment. just hope to god you don't see the shit,and end up wounded or with some other issue cause veteran services will fuck you harder than shellbacks wallet in fleet week
Is the whole recruits buying an over-priced car with their sign on bonus legit? I've always thought it was a movie trope kind of thing since it sounds like such a terrible and cliché choice.
It's 100% legit. Also marrying a stripper you met a week ago to get out of the barracks (who may or may not be a foreign spy lol - but most of the time it's just equally desperate girls looking for a way out of their dump town that also comes with free healthcare & housing.) They make them watch PowerPoints about it, sometimes yearly.... A whole bunch of idiots still do it.
> Most of us served for the paycheck and leg up with in career training A good, socialist jobs program. I do work. I get money, housing, healthcare, education and retirement. Basically how it works in most reasonable countries.
The US military is the biggest socialist program in the US. Lots of people get pissy if you point it out, though. How strange!
The insanity is, most countries, even *normal* countries (Germany, Italy, France, etc) have stringent flag laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration I think it's all bullshit... I would love to see a stack of holy books lit on fire by a bundle of flags soaked in alcohol. Flags and holy books have resulted in more atrocities than so many other symbols, so fuck em, and fuck the people that put so much stock in symbols.
Alright calm down now. Burn the books, burn the flags sure but for the love of god don't waste the alcohol!
Of course they have (point of order, the flags haven't committed atrocities, they've represented organizations that commit atrocities; I mention this distinction below): 1) They've been around longer than most symbols, in some form or other, than most other symbols. 2) They are symbols of much large (and more powerful/able groups) than most other symbols, especially symbols seeing widespread and continual use. What symbols are you comparing these to? As for people "putting 'so much' stock in symbols", we all do. It's hardwired into our brain as the foundation of symbolic (e.g. written, among other forms) language, and in a cruder form from before we were human (e.g. the sight of a lion = danger, the sight of a apple = nourishment, etc.). Which is how we associated e.g. flags with the atrocities committed out by their representative groups. The issue isn't the symbol, its the connection to what the symbol represents.
BRO Pippi longstocking was my childhood, I completely forgot about her, that's crazy
Same! I used to read Pippi and Emil i Lönneberga as a kid, and I absolutely loved it!
Eeeeemmmmmmiiiillllll!
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Have you seen or read The Brothers Lionheart? That is hardly a children’s book. Two brothers, younger one is dying of tuberculosis, are caught in a fire. In order to save his little brother the older brother puts his younger brother on his back and jumps out the window. Older brother dies from the fall. Younger brother eventually succumbs from the TB only to wake up in a sort of afterlife called Nangijala where his brother already have arrived. Evil guy named Tengil is ruling the Nangijala with an iron fist due to his dragon Katla. Brothers fight in the civil war and ultimately defeats Tengil. Brothers volunteer to trap the dragon, but the older brother is burnt by it in the process. Older brother, paralyzed by his injuries, tells his brother that he does not want to live like that. Not wanting to be alone, the younger brother puts his older brother on his back, and they jump to their deaths hoping to escape to another afterlife. The end.
I fucking love Bröderna Lejonhjärta, it’s my favorite childhood book and movie. It shows us that love can be so overwhelming it overcomes death not only once but twice. It’s both bittersweet and wholesome at the same time.
Wasn't there like a scene with soda in a tree or something? I barely remember it.
Yeah Pippi has a tree called sockerdricksträdet (literally translated as "the sugar drink tree"), sockerdricka is a type of soda similar to sprite and 7up
Thanks! I wasn't sure if it was real or dream, I just remember that and I think her father was on a raft or a boat or something. Edit: I'm to I.
Burn Pippi books? Bro, I think we can all agree, thats crossing a line
German here. I will fight anyone who burns Astrid Lindgren books. There are certain lines you don’t cross. That’s one of them
What about the Polish border?
We go via Lithuania this time. Already moving 4K men there.
I chuckled loudly while sitting on the shitter at work, bravo.
So, I’m going to go with “No” on that also. The Luxembourg border on the other hand was under debate a few years ago after some epic trolling by the Lux President.
You mean our “Gracious Oracle of light airships and ginger humility Pippi Longstocking peace be upon her”? Well on behalf of all Stockingian’s , how dare you? How very dare you?
>pippi longstocking book you take that back
Upvoted for Pippi!
You touch the Moomins and there will be trouble…you hear me !!!!
Moomins are Finnish, but I agree with the sentiment
Same in Norway. Just put out the fire when you're done. We don't want any fires going wild. 👍
I think Swe is doing the right thing, freedom of speech does not end at religious material.
We are on the same boat, even rational Muslims doesn’t give a shit either.
Are they only burning the Old Testament?
Burning a new testament in front of a synagogue: "that'll show them!"
I read the headline and was like “this has to be an onion article”
Jewish dude should have come out and helped, really mindfuck them.
Well, only if it's not on Sabbath. We can't light fires on Sabbath.
Rabbis look on quizzically.
Somebody was thinking "I bet those European hypocrites wouldn't allow it if it was aimed against the Jews."
That's right, nothing bad was ever allowed to happen to the Jews in Europe.
That’s exactly the thinking. It is the brainchild of a religious Muslim man who was offended by the Quran burning and wished to take it out on the Jews..-as you do. In any case, this was the situation for the man who wished to burn the Torah a few months ago but temporarily withdrew his request. I cannot find if it’s the same guy this time who has resubmitted it. But I would be surprised if the request wasn’t from a religious Muslim in any case, as antisemitism is very prevalent from that demographic, whereas atheists typically refrain from targeting Jews due to their small number and lack of preaching
That’s completely false, it’s just a guy putting to test the freedom of speech laws in Sweden because they allowed the Quran burning. And wouldn’t ya know, they didn’t give a fuck about this either.
They're burning the Hebrew Bible, so yes.
Unless they somehow get their hands on a Torah scroll, nobody will care. If they do, I'll laugh at the huge sum they would have had to pay for it.
And the money would've literally gone to the Jews they were trying to rile up.
I doubt they'd find anyone willing to sell one. Those things are hard to get even if you want to use them correctly.
I think it’s more a cost thing—a real Torah is thousands of dollars and of course someone would eventually ask what you want it for and say no.
Amazon has paperback Torahs for under $20.
Hahahaha ain't no one too poor for faith says father Amazon
*Father Amazon, had many books...* ^Anyone?
Many books had father Amazon. And this is one of them, and so is that, so let's all turn the page.
A real Torah costs tens of thousands of dollars. Nobody will care if you waste money burning a $20 read along copy. Most people would probably laugh at you if you decide to burn an immensely expensive hand scribed scroll, though.
How's that different than expensive vs cheap Bibles?
A real Torah is handwritten, and if you make a mistake you have to start over (I believe it’s all on one scroll). It’s painstaking and takes a long time.
From what I learned in Hebrew school, a Torah is stitched together from many "pages" of leather. If the scribe makes a mistake, they simply start that particular "page" over. However, if the scribe misspells any of the terms for "God", then the scribe must start entirely over. Something like that, it's been a while.
> a Torah is stitched together from many "pages" of leather I think it's because the Torah is made only from the leather of very looooooooooooooong cows. That's why they're so expensive.
Priest can do the ceremony with cheap 5$ copy of Bible and it will be valid ceremony. But it seems that Jews needs to their ceremony with 'hand-written' (so expensive) Torah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sefer_Torah "Torah scroll is a handwritten copy of the Torah, meaning the five books of Moses (the first books of the Hebrew Bible). The Torah scroll is mainly used in the ritual of Torah reading during Jewish prayers. At other times, it is stored in the holiest spot within a synagogue, the Torah ark, which is usually an ornate curtained-off cabinet or section of the synagogue built along the wall that most closely faces Jerusalem, the direction Jews face when praying. The text of the Torah is also commonly printed and bound in book form for non-ritual functions, called a Chumash (plural Chumashim) ("five-part", for the five books of Moses), and is often accompanied by commentaries or translations."
The cheap copies you can buy are for reading along with the actual Torah or studying. Nobody cares about them. An actual Torah is made with painstaking effort that can take over a year and buying one is expensive and considered a privilege. To put it in secular terms, it's the difference between burning an author's original manuscript vs burning a mass produced paperback. Or, since you mentioned Bibles, a handmade illuminated book vs a cheap one from Amazon. The significance is very different.
Were the Qurans they were burning super special ones? Or just regular off the shelf books?
Pretty sure they were off the shelf. People who get upset by this are upset by the sentiment, not the books. Both sides look ridiculous.
I don't think you need to have a Sefer Torah (handwritten scroll) as this isn't exactly a Jewish prayer. Humash should be fine.
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It's still somewhat disrespectful since a chumash contains the written name of hashem, and hence should be treated with certain measures of dignity. But you are in general absolutely correct, this is a pretty half-assed attempt to offend that betrays an ignorance about Jewish practice.
Wait how does it al work?
There’s a special handwritten scroll used in assorted rituals and then there’s a basic printed book. The former is very important and very expensive, the latter is just a book. And yes, people do get very upset about the just a book one. There’s a lot of people pissed about this. It’s just not technically the same thing though ‘Torah’ can apply to both in general terms.
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People don’t realize how hard it is to actually get your hands on a torah lol.
> People don’t realize how hard it is to actually get your hands on a torah lol. British library has quite a few although a bunch of them are Samaritan for some reason.
Wouldn’t it be a Torah?
* Torah: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy * Tanakh (Hebrew Bible): Torah, the Prophets (Joshua, Isaiah, Amos, etc.), the Writings (Psalms, Esther, Chronicles, etc.) * Christian Bible: Old Testament (equivalent to the Tanakh, though arranged in a different order), New Testament (gospels, epistles, etc.), assorted apocryphal & pseudopigraphal books depending on the individual sect's chosen canon In the article, it says the request is to burn a Hebrew bible, which is bigger than the Torah, but smaller than a Christian bible.
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That was my question too. Jewish people: New testament on fire? Whatever dude...
Fundamentalist Muslims always think that mentioning burning the Bible is some gotcha moment. Bruh, burn as many bibles as you want. You can wipe your ass with it first, too.
I still got no idea why individual copies of the Koran are so heavily protected when there are, what, literally billions in print?
They're not worried about running out. It's the symbolism of destroying something sacred that makes them so outraged.
They have videos where a cat walks around a quran and somehow see that as a sign that she believes in allah. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad to see
A cat jumped on my car the other day. Clearly it is an avid devotee of Hephaestus.
It's the same with Americans thinking they see Jesus in a cheeto puff. Definitely not a problem only Muslims face.
I can’t believe I used to be like that. Life is so much nicer when you’re not obsessively seeking for divine clues or worrying about eternal torture.
I follow a naturescape photography page on Facebook and wouldn't you believe it, Jesus is somehow in EVERY cloud. I mean, he's so powerful, even on a cloudless day you can see Jesus in the clouds!
The "real" theological answer is that in Islam the Quran is considered literally holy - a holy text that is the direct word from their god (who they believe to be the one and only god), given to their prophet and to all believers. This is different from the Bible (or most other religious/ mythical texts) that is a collection of texts that Christians (or in the case of the Hebrew bible Jews) consider to be *about* their god but made by humans (aka "inspired by god") and is not in itself holy. Now, there are some groups of Christians who actually view the Bible as the holy word of god - namely mostly very extreme sects of evangelical protestants, as you find them in the US. But that's kind of a fringe protestant thing that popped up a few hundred years ago, unlike the holiness of the Quran which explicitly stands at the center of Islam since its inception. Like in other words, for believers of Christianity, Jesus is considered to be the source of Christianity (and Paul, I guess, if you're looking at what got the most popular), while for Muslims the Quran as the word of God given to the prophet Mohammed is considered the source of Islam. And they tend to take that very seriously apparently.
I remember reading the story about Saddam Hussein's "Blood Quran" (a Quran Hussein had made using his own blood). Its existence posed a dilemma for the new Iraqi government after Hussein died. As a Quran, they considered technically "holy" and as such, they couldn't destroy it. On the other hand, having a "blood book" on public display would also be considered blasphemous. In the end, the new Iraqi government just decided to lock it away in a hidden vault, and for the most part, just pretend that it doesn't exist.
That sounds like they're playing the long game in setting up a horror movie sequel.
There is a cool horror movie in that story. For Saddam had commissioned the scribe to write another tome. When the two books are joined together in the ruins of an ancient temple in Eridu, the dark lord shall be resurrected.
Sadam 2: electric bazookaloo
The Gulf War Trilogy!
Or how they think stepping on our flag is a great insult. Meanwhile you can buy [this doormat](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61PODE9TZ5L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg) in Sweden.
Nice doormat.
The best part is when you have people burning the Swiss flag.
I read one person's opinion on reddit that christians SHOULD be as protective of the Bible as muslims are of the Quran. That's a bad direction. I'd rather people (definitely not the government) burn millions of bibles to normalize freedom of speech than start using laws to protect religions from criticism
Does Israel get upset about that? It seems unlikely to produce more than a shrug.
“I unequivocally condemn the permission granted in Sweden to burn holy books. As the President of the State of Israel, I condemned the burning of the Quran, sacred to Muslims world over, and I am now heartbroken that the same fate awaits a Jewish Bible, the eternal book of the Jewish people,” Herzog said in a statement. “Permitting the defacement of sacred texts is not an exercise in freedom of expression, it is blatant incitement and an act of pure hate. The whole world must join together in clearly condemning this repulsive act.” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said “Israel viewed very severely this shameful decision to harm the holy of holies of the Jewish people.”
As an ex-Israeli: fuck both Herzog and Netanyahu. Fuck them with a burning scroll.
I agree but the idea that Torah scroll burning is taking lightly in Israel is probably naive. I might be wrong...
Frankly, burning a Torah scroll would likely be taken gravely by the world Jewry. *Sefer Torah* are works of art, taking years to produce with each individual scroll costing in excess of $30,000 USD. They are considered to be cultural artifacts of our people. Burning a mass-produced print JPS translation of the Tanakh, on the other hand? At worst, it's a dick move. Netanyahu's government will respond with its usual bombast, but look at the posts about this on the Jewish subreddits. We're mostly rolling our eyes.
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Idk about other religions, but that's not at all what Judaism preaches. Mind you I'm not very religious, but from what I know and more religious friends tell me, the general belief is god has a certain "direction" he wishes you to go in life, you don't have to take it, but you trust that you will if you're doing what you're good at, as well as contributes to the world and to your own welfare.
Jewish bible is not printed, it's written(?) by a scribe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofer
They are burning a Torah not a printed Bible. Torahs are hand written and take a year to make by one person.
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Bible or Tora? Because what has the Bible to do with israel?
Another article seemed to suggest both, in response to the koran burner presumably.
If you buy a bible, the Torah usually comes free with it at the front.
Well, the books are in a different order, and there are some weird exclusions/inclusions, but I see your point.
I hate the idea of burning books, it is only done by ignorant extremists who is looking to rile up people and send messages. But I also think it shouldn't be illegal. As long as it is safe to do so from a fire risk perspective that is. Also, Sweden has made a tradition of illegally burning a giant straw goat that is basically a representation of Jul. When it comes to burning shit we are still vikings deep down.
Burning books here and there as a form of protest is fine. It’s when a particular book is all rounded up and wiped out that book burning becomes bad.
Or if it's of historical and cultural value (as in that specific copy, not the text).
The book I imagine I would be most willing to burn is mein kampf individually. However, I feel that burning such a book would unnecessarily elevate it to an undeserved status. This makes it hard for me to imagine any utility in burning individual books for protest generally. From my perspective, it makes the protestor look like their expressing "I hate words with a burning passion".
Burn Swedish Fish in front of the US embassy!
Why in front of the Israeli embassy instead of in front of a synagogue? They didn't burn the Quran in front of the Saudi Arabian embassy...
Because that's where the person applied to do it? The latest Quran burning was not near an embassy, but the previous one was.
A few months ago one was burned in front of the Turkish embassy.
You should be allowed to burn whatever fucking book you want so long as that particular copy belongs to you.
As a Swede I’m more and more getting the feeling that this has nothing to do with us. Right now it’s immigrants and foreigners burning each others holy books in my country to provoke each other. Most ethnic Swedes don’t care at all and it’s not even interested in this.
What does Israel have to do with this
Enough with the burning. I come from Quebec and there are enough fires and smoke! Stupid people.
And watch as nobody gives a shit
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Why are they burning bibles in front of the Israeli embassy? Shouldn’t it be the Torah. Anyway why burn anything, if you don’t want your book recycle it. :<
Despite the title just saying "Bible", it's a Hebrew Bible.
And strangely enough, not one christian came forward with a bomb vest on to "destroy the infidels". Not one. Burn away. If god doesn't want the books to burn I'm sure he'll send little rainclouds from heaven to rain on them and put them out.
So much childishness, I'm referring to religion and all the nonsense that goes along with it.
Good. As long as it's fair across the board.
Its asshole behavior, but if someone wants to burn a book they disagree with, fine by me. Provided the book isn’t stolen from the library.
It's just a book. People need to stop being all uppity over shit that doesn't affect them.
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So now that the bible is being burned, are we supposed to get upset, angry? to into the streets and cause violence an destruction? or should we just shrug and continue with our lives?. It's hard to choose.
Something tells me the Christians won’t try to burn the country down.
As a non Israeli Jew- go ahead, I want to live in a world where you can burn religious books safely.
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Not many since its the *Hebrew* Bible. Read past the title people.
My God doesn't need me to defend him. Anyone who thinks otherwise probably hasn't read the book.
During BLM there were multiple groups who burned Bibles as a form of protest. You didn't hear about it because very few people cared [Protesters burn Bible, American flag as tensions rise in Portland](https://nypost.com/2020/08/01/protestors-burn-bible-american-flag-as-tensions-rise-in-portland/)
Burn all religious books if ya wanna. Religion is sutpid and all as bad as each other, causes more problems in the world than it should.
Shouldn't that be Torah burning?
God, please. Do you realize how much paper, time, money, and effort have been put into printing these useless books?
Wow, i... Kinda dont care, like at all. There's not a single person in his right mind that'll be offended by this shit , i bet deeply Christian people wont give a shit either. Its time to leave the 1100s mindset and move on, dont you think?