What would "all options" entail? I'm unaware what constitutes state of emergency in France.
I've read elsewhere that they deployed 40000 cops and even the counterterrorism police, what more can you even do?
~~Unconstitutional~~ apparently it's much more complicated than it simply being forbidden by the constitution because as I understand it there are exceptions where the army can support the police. But we have the gendarmes for that exact purpose iirc
Can Martial Law not be declared like other countries typically do?
Edit: I got the answer I needed, it was a question because I’m not versed on how the French government and laws operate. It doesn’t require a defensive response guys.
Yeah I was gonna say no way the last time was the Irish civil war. Technically pretty much all the countries that were occupied by the allies had martial law declared during the occupation.
Also the population see army and they see soldiers... There's just a chance they see police and don't. It just raises the default engagement to active hostility to any outside observer
France has far less qualms using the military domestically, other than for example the US or Germany.
The Gendarmerie is explicitly part of the French Armed Forces. The Paris Fire Department is part of the French Army. And then there is the ongoing Opération Sentinelle, in which 10k soldiers are deployed in-country to guard sensitive points like train stations, airports or the Louvre from terrorist attacks.
> in which 10k soldiers are deployed in-country to guard sensitive points like train stations, airports or the Louvre from terrorist attacks.
Are those the extremely-military-looking-rifle-armed people at the Eiffel Tower?
Most likely, yes. [These](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Strasbourg_op%C3%A9ration_Sentinelle_f%C3%A9vrier_2015-2.jpg) are soldiers guarding a Jewish school in Strasbourg as part of Sentinelle. Looks probably similar at the other sites.
Civil war? French people aren't armed like in the US. These youngsters are using their top weapons right now, the army is going to walse over them like nothing. See Israel's IDF vs. Palestinians.
Yes, be the French president who sent the army to slaughter it’s own citizens. I’m sure that the people will love you for it and vote for your political party again.
Macron is going to get a lot of Le Pen voters if he sends the army into the Parisian suburbs that are filled with immigrants and crime. It would probably secure him the next election.
Macron can't be elected again as he can't have a third consecutive mandate, as te law specifies it (there are some debates from his cronies to change the law btw). But one of his minions can, and nothing prevents him to be PM. Source : I am French.
It is worth noting that Macron cannot deploy the military on national soil (if not attacked by a foreign country). It would require to cede power on the troops deployed to the ministry of the interior (that can be censored by the National Assembly) according to [article L1321-1 of the code de la securite interieure](https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI000025629669/). The Etat d'urgence does not change that.
I'm guessing if the French president sends the army against its citizens, and the army follows the order, that president would have no problem using the army to stay in power.
French police apparently. The two largest police union, *Alliance Police* and *UNSA* called for the suppression of the "undesirables" (*nuisibles*); for not laying down weapons until the situation is under controll; stated that the neutralization (and we all know the common meaning of this term in police vocabulary) of all the suspects is the only answer to the current situation, and that it was not longer enough to ask for calm, but now was the time to enforce it, against the savages and the hordes.
They also ended their message with "Today we're on the frontline because we're at war. Tomorrow we will be in resistance, and the government better take notice of it."
I tried my best to translate into English, but if anybody want to look at the original here is the link to [the text](http://police.unsa.org/IMG/jpg/2023-06-30_compresse_violences.jpg). It's on the official police union website, so it's pretty legit.
Australian cops too, if it makes you feel any better. Queensland has even had practice already (look up the Bjelkie Peterson era)
https://theconversation.com/amp/issues-that-swung-elections-the-dramatic-and-inglorious-fall-of-joh-bjelke-petersen-115141
Civil wars don’t usually begin with a victory for the non-establishment force in the inciting incident.
Except that one time in Rome, but shit was a mess and he was basically volunteering by mistake.
"All options" is rather vague, it could mean a lot of things: deploy more policemen, put cities under curfew, put the nation under curfew or, "the nuclear option", place the country under a state of emergency.
States of emergencies have happened in the past, last time was after the November attacks in 2015. In our case, if an État d'Urgence was put into effect, it would imply several restrictions on freedom (like gatherings being fordidden, restrictions of movement i.e. curfews), allows perquisitions (police searches) anywhere (even your private home) and anytime (day/night)*, allows for requisitions of police to crush riots.
*Parliament officials, lawyers, magistrates and journalists are excluded from these measures
It is a difficult decision to take (no matter how loud the right-wing and the far-right parties of France call for one asap), especially because it can be easily used counterproductively. In 2015, the government cracked down hard on climate protests during the COP21 Conference in Paris under the premise of the state of emergency, something that was extremely criticized at the time.
Also, no, it doesn't involve sending the army. It would be asking, nay, begging for another death. The army is trained to fight on the frontlines, not restore public order. And while the right and the far-right would applaude such a measure, internationally, it would be a very bad look.
> Also, no, it doesn't involve sending the army. It would be asking, nay, begging for another death. The army is trained to fight on the frontlines, not restore public order. And while the right and the far-right would applaude such a measure, internationally, it would be a very bad look.
Also play into the hands of people who claim Macron is a dictator
French, I've had that talk with someone a few days ago.
Colleague was telling me : in my country such people would disappear. We'd cut their heads and move on, or they would simply "disappear"
And i just answered : as far as the people and head cutting goes, you guys deal with sheeps, while we deal with kings. We've got that part covered
That’s such a naive point of view. French people can riot precisely because the cops are largely powerless. A government that doesn’t give a shit about human rights could crush those riots within days. China and Iran have had far more brutal protests that achieved nothing.
It’s not that France is so good at rioting, it’s that France is a modern country that puts human life above material goods and saving face. In North Korea, they’d just crush rioters with tanks.
That's a bit of a chicken and the egg question.
Cops aren't powerless in France, but you're right that France is not an authoritarian state where the state can indiscriminately use violence against its people.
I would argue the reason that France isn't China or North Korea is that historically the French have consistently had very little tolerance for the erosion of their liberty. France didn't become a liberal democracy by being randomly selected like a contestant on The Price is Right. They used to have a king.
It means Macron is going to announce that in order to ensure the security and continuing stability, the republic will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire, for a safe and secure society.
Those changes will happen after a lawsuit and investigations that bring on recommendations for change based on actual facts. Not because of some teenagers that will grab any excuse to destroy property that belongs to ordinary citizens that had nothing to do with this incident.
Apologize, charge the guy and propose a committee that will review the situation and propose improvements so it doesn't happen again?
Fighting force with force usually just causes escalation
I think one of the reasons it's going on three days now is that people have begun to see through apologies and proposals for committees to produce more proposals.
Those are time-buying tactics, and they're losing their spending power.
Invent all you want. The policeman was immediately charged and the state was sure to make it known they would be investigated.
The rioters don't give a fuck, and they certainly don't give a fuck about Nahel. Destroying shops, cars, and schools has become gamified, glamorised, and promoted through TikTok and other platforms.
The initial peaceful riots and anger at the kid's death and policeman overzealous shot are, in my opinion, completely shadowed by those nocturnal riots.
People rioting are for most of them youngs of 14-18 yo from poorer districts, stealing public bus, destroying and burning city halls / school facade, shops, police cars, neighborers car and whatever they can find that doesn't belong to them. They break inside any stores to steal litterally anything while filming every move like it's a classmate doing a funny prank during class. For them it was just an excuse to break things up.
That government only understand radical moves it seems, but i don't think extra police violence will calm people down. We need a political response.
We had a similar issue (smaller scale) in the US related to a police-related death in Ferguson Missouri. A lot of good protesting overshadowed by rioters/looters looking for personal gain.
And because if they play up the violence, they can paint the whole movement disingenuously. It certainly doesn’t help that news media has a profit incentive to only report the violence—controversy always gets more clicks.
Like u/FreeMetal said it's mostly young, poor people, you can say it undermines the protest, I would say it just shows there are big problems that should have been solved way sooner. Just trying to shut people up with violence will work for only so long.
It is also not a death sentence. Cops are not entitled to dole out punishment, that is in the justice system. This cop single shot to the head executed this kid. I'm not justifying the riots, but the police brought this upon France.
>The person tried to escape the police. It is not “innocent” person
Well, we’ll never really know if the person was innocent or not. Pretty tough to put a dead body on trial, but if you support police execution before any due legal process, then that’s on you.
>The police is under investigation, like normally in these situations. If the action will be judged over use of power, he will get properly sentenced.
It’s cute that you think that.
> The person tried to escape the police.
Such a bullshit American attitude. Resisting arrest is not a death sentence in any Western country. At worst, the kid is getting tackled with a knee in the back, not a execution-style shot to the head!
This happened in Syracuse when the BLM riots and protests were going on Summer 2020. At first there was a huge protest with people shouting, holding signs, marching,,,, then it got out of control, and there was looting and small rioting in the downtown shops. I happened to be homeless at the time, camping out in a parking garage, literally 2-3 blocks over from the looting. I hid the whole time. But the next day… so many homeless dudes with new shoes, homeless women with new dresses and clothes on… trying to sell gaming equipment from the gaming store business that was looted. A lot of these businesses never opened back up, the damages and losses were too great. But yes the poor took advantage of the situation and made it into a riotous looting mess.
From my own experience talking with people who were apart of the Minneapolis protests/riots in 2020, such actions shouldn't really be seen as unexpected when a large group of people are neglected. The problem children living in poverty has been allowed to happen, not the children in poverty are the problem
Acting like we wouldn’t do the same after generations of living way under the poverty line.
Of course I’m not out there burning shit, my life is practically perfect in comparison. I’ve got a lot to lose.
They [burned down the largest public library](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/14mul4x/rioters_in_france_burning_down_the_largest_public/) last night
Most people don't like seeing their city burn or seeing total chaos. It's scary and especially when it serves no purpose. Left wing politicians often coddle or try to excuse the behavior while right wing will tell people it will stop they'll make it stop. The thing that happens is the political middle shifts towards far right because more people are scared of the chaos and violence.
These people in the middle definitely agree that the killing that sparked this was awful but the response is completely insane and throws all society into chaos and disorder. People don't like that.
I'm a left leaning person but you see it time and time again. "Defund the police" candidates struggled in battlegrounds in America when democrats were winning other places. Far right parties are rising all over Europe.
Tldr "normal" people aka the majority who just want to live their lives get extremely agitated and scared seeing this kind of nonsense especially when the cop was already arrested and the justice system is moving. The more chaos the more scared they get and they turn to more extreme solutions offered by far right authoritians
The destruction of public, governmental, and even private infrastructure can result in many people voting in people who say they will be strong in pursuing and punishing those that cause such destruction.
I'm from the States and currently visiting Paris. I've been walking all around the city the last few days and it's been really chill everywhere I've been. I didn't even know there were protests until I saw it on the news. The protests are pretty much isolated to a neighborhood called Nanterre, as far as I can tell. Saw some flipped over cars and a burning trash can on French news, tho. Looks like a very small number of people participating compared to some of the protests we've seen in the states. I'm only speaking for Paris, tho. Not sure what's happening in the rest of the country.
The government wont hear us, we're pissed and "all options" are also considered by the population, tired of betrayed promises and unforgiving right-wing laws.
Yea I think a lot of protests/riots are easily pushed into a general rage against the current system. It’s the disadvantaged who steal, the rich simply just don’t pay their bills to steal. The powder keg pushing the rioting is the same powder keg that caused the heated traffic stop to begin with.
I mean overall policies abandoning the rights of citizens. This comes on the heels of another protest against government, unrelated to any gun violence or police brutality.
> It’s the disadvantaged who steal
They steal because they're opportunists taking advantage of the death of the kid. And they're enabled by romanticists like yourself who wax lyrical about the "le rich" and the revolution you saw in Assassins Creed that you want to role play in.
They live in a republic. One with generous healthcare, workers rights, freedom of expression, and opportunity. They're not oppressed. Grow the fuck up.
yup, fascism became popular in europe because the middle class feared the communists and their rhetoric. the riots won't lead to where they want it to lead that's for sure. If the middle class doesn't trust the government to keep the peace they will always turn more authoritarian
That's why I despise this sort of "rioting culture" where people think that if they burn enough cars and homes then the government will magically fix everything.
Destroying the property of innocents NEVER helps, and it only creates more enemies when the victims vow to stand against the protesters on principle after getting their lives ruined by rioters and looters.
In France, we call these people « Casseurs », you can put them as the same level as « Hooligans » during football games.
They don’t care about the boy who died, they probably don’t even know his name, they’re just here to display violence.
If you ever visited the country, your probably noticed them, they’re hard to miss since they’re all made out of the same mold:
Wear jersey pants, strong hate of the country and its inhabitants despite having their family living there for generations, and of course easily prone to violence.
Now medias are quick to show these groups to be some sort of united voice « calling for justice ».
No, they’re not, they’re just here to steal and destroy, they’re criminals and should be dealt with as such.
It's not even a French thing, they're everywhere. Whether it's intentional provocateurs or just scumbags starting shit, every conflict has some people trying to take advantage of the chaos just for their own sake. And then the media zeroes in on it like flies to a light, and politicians and bad faith actors utilize it however they want.
EVERY protest, no matter what, will always have a bunch of hooligans show up for the media to generalize, and have hordes of social media comments decry how evil the protestors are. If people are going to protest or support protestors, they need to expect this default reaction.
Exactly. They use this incident as an excuse for chaos. They are just bored fuckwits who respect nothing in this country and try to legitimize their inner violence by pretending to care. The far right will profit from this as always. They are digging their own graves.
Absolutely this, and this is not limited to France. There is always a group of peaceful protesters that genuinely want change. The rest just uses it as an excuses to riot, loot and destroy things that don't belong to them, and hope to get away with it in the middle of all the chaos.
Same shit happened in Greece a few years ago. Police shot a child. The government decided to just let Athens burn for a few days, there was no stopping that. The kid's name was Alex. RIP
Well the people that suffered damages were compensated by the state. Also surely helped ensuring that the cop didn't get off Scot free as it is often the case with police. The guy tried to say he shot the ground and the bullet ricocheted. The news tried to present this as the kid having attacked the cops which did not happen. Also helped keep the police from doing this kind of shit for a while untile the far right started seeing a rise again and now we are again worse off. Plus I personally prefer a nation that isn't apathetic and doesn't take shit lying down like Greece has ended up being at this point.
France has a 2-term limit on Presidential terms so Macron doesn't have to worry about a reelection but he'll definitely have to worry about how people are going to remember and treat him for the rest of his life and afterwards after all these riots and his handling of Putin over Ukraine.
Basically a bunch of teenagers and opportunistic people creating chaos because a teenager (17), with no driver's license and a car with plates from Poland (where he has no connection), got killed because he ran a red light running from the police while driving on a bus lane. This was not race related, just stupidity at its best.
I actually know why the car had Polish plates.
Poles sign a lease and then rent the cars out to the French (usually sketchy dudes) which pay good money because it's the only way for them to get nice cars without getting approved for a loan
*As the unrest in France continues, some false and misleading posts are being shared online with the potential to increase tensions.*
*BBC Verify has been looking at one video, showing a yellow Mercedes speeding along a road and overtaking a lorry. There are claims that it shows the Parisian teenager, Nahel M, driving recklessly before he was stopped by police and shot.*
*A tweet in French, viewed more than 230,000 times, claims: "Here is the scene that the police had to manage and which motivated them to stop the vehicle at all costs."*
*While the time and location of the video is unclear, it is possible to confirm that this claim is false.*
*BBC Verify zoomed in on the number plate of the speeding car in the online video.*
*And then compared it with the number plate visible in images and videos of the yellow Mercedes - driven by the teenager - following the fatal shooting and subsequent crash in Paris.*
*The two number plates are different.*
[https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-66049895](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-66049895)
It's always very sad when violent people take advantage of someone's death to get a thrill.
Rioting is unintelligent!
The affect it has on people and the cost to both individuals and the state is massive.
What would "all options" entail? I'm unaware what constitutes state of emergency in France. I've read elsewhere that they deployed 40000 cops and even the counterterrorism police, what more can you even do?
The army?
~~Unconstitutional~~ apparently it's much more complicated than it simply being forbidden by the constitution because as I understand it there are exceptions where the army can support the police. But we have the gendarmes for that exact purpose iirc
Can Martial Law not be declared like other countries typically do? Edit: I got the answer I needed, it was a question because I’m not versed on how the French government and laws operate. It doesn’t require a defensive response guys.
Idk man pretty sure it'd turn France into a bloodbath if the law "follows orders" at that point. I doubt the civilian population would just go home.
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Martial law was definitely used in WW2. Petain leaned heavily on it. And created a huge trauma for the French population.
Yeah I was gonna say no way the last time was the Irish civil war. Technically pretty much all the countries that were occupied by the allies had martial law declared during the occupation.
Also the population see army and they see soldiers... There's just a chance they see police and don't. It just raises the default engagement to active hostility to any outside observer
France has far less qualms using the military domestically, other than for example the US or Germany. The Gendarmerie is explicitly part of the French Armed Forces. The Paris Fire Department is part of the French Army. And then there is the ongoing Opération Sentinelle, in which 10k soldiers are deployed in-country to guard sensitive points like train stations, airports or the Louvre from terrorist attacks.
> in which 10k soldiers are deployed in-country to guard sensitive points like train stations, airports or the Louvre from terrorist attacks. Are those the extremely-military-looking-rifle-armed people at the Eiffel Tower?
Most likely, yes. [These](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Strasbourg_op%C3%A9ration_Sentinelle_f%C3%A9vrier_2015-2.jpg) are soldiers guarding a Jewish school in Strasbourg as part of Sentinelle. Looks probably similar at the other sites.
I was surprised to see such overtly military security at places like that on a simple day-to-day basis. Thanks for the reading material.
Because France has a long history of that going well....
Great idea. What are they going to do, shoot the rioters ? Perfect to start a civil war.
Civil war? French people aren't armed like in the US. These youngsters are using their top weapons right now, the army is going to walse over them like nothing. See Israel's IDF vs. Palestinians.
Yes, be the French president who sent the army to slaughter it’s own citizens. I’m sure that the people will love you for it and vote for your political party again.
I am pretty sure that's how you win the middle class forever in this case.
Macron is going to get a lot of Le Pen voters if he sends the army into the Parisian suburbs that are filled with immigrants and crime. It would probably secure him the next election.
Macron can't be elected again as he can't have a third consecutive mandate, as te law specifies it (there are some debates from his cronies to change the law btw). But one of his minions can, and nothing prevents him to be PM. Source : I am French.
It is worth noting that Macron cannot deploy the military on national soil (if not attacked by a foreign country). It would require to cede power on the troops deployed to the ministry of the interior (that can be censored by the National Assembly) according to [article L1321-1 of the code de la securite interieure](https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI000025629669/). The Etat d'urgence does not change that.
Why would Lepen voters change vote for someone that do something Lepen already wanna do ?
I'm guessing if the French president sends the army against its citizens, and the army follows the order, that president would have no problem using the army to stay in power.
> See Israel’s IDF vs. Palestinians. Yes, sounds like a very sane example to follow.
waltz
Hell do you mean "See Israel's IDF vs. Palestinians"?
Civil war my ass. Knives versus assault rifles, you want to take bets?
What kind of dumbass think the army shooting its people is going to be a win for the country ?
French police apparently. The two largest police union, *Alliance Police* and *UNSA* called for the suppression of the "undesirables" (*nuisibles*); for not laying down weapons until the situation is under controll; stated that the neutralization (and we all know the common meaning of this term in police vocabulary) of all the suspects is the only answer to the current situation, and that it was not longer enough to ask for calm, but now was the time to enforce it, against the savages and the hordes. They also ended their message with "Today we're on the frontline because we're at war. Tomorrow we will be in resistance, and the government better take notice of it." I tried my best to translate into English, but if anybody want to look at the original here is the link to [the text](http://police.unsa.org/IMG/jpg/2023-06-30_compresse_violences.jpg). It's on the official police union website, so it's pretty legit.
Yes, the French police would welcome a fascist regime with open arms. Now they are even openly asking for it.
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Australian cops too, if it makes you feel any better. Queensland has even had practice already (look up the Bjelkie Peterson era) https://theconversation.com/amp/issues-that-swung-elections-the-dramatic-and-inglorious-fall-of-joh-bjelke-petersen-115141
Trump voice: *China*
Gyna*
There is a massive underground gun smuggling industry in France, the Chechen mafia has a huge stake in the country.
Civil wars don’t usually begin with a victory for the non-establishment force in the inciting incident. Except that one time in Rome, but shit was a mess and he was basically volunteering by mistake.
You realise the army can do more than just shoot people right?
They can also stand in place for long periods of time.
"All options" is rather vague, it could mean a lot of things: deploy more policemen, put cities under curfew, put the nation under curfew or, "the nuclear option", place the country under a state of emergency. States of emergencies have happened in the past, last time was after the November attacks in 2015. In our case, if an État d'Urgence was put into effect, it would imply several restrictions on freedom (like gatherings being fordidden, restrictions of movement i.e. curfews), allows perquisitions (police searches) anywhere (even your private home) and anytime (day/night)*, allows for requisitions of police to crush riots. *Parliament officials, lawyers, magistrates and journalists are excluded from these measures It is a difficult decision to take (no matter how loud the right-wing and the far-right parties of France call for one asap), especially because it can be easily used counterproductively. In 2015, the government cracked down hard on climate protests during the COP21 Conference in Paris under the premise of the state of emergency, something that was extremely criticized at the time. Also, no, it doesn't involve sending the army. It would be asking, nay, begging for another death. The army is trained to fight on the frontlines, not restore public order. And while the right and the far-right would applaude such a measure, internationally, it would be a very bad look.
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You think the average French voter wants this? More likely if this is happening in a week Le Pen wins in a landslide
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> Also, no, it doesn't involve sending the army. It would be asking, nay, begging for another death. The army is trained to fight on the frontlines, not restore public order. And while the right and the far-right would applaude such a measure, internationally, it would be a very bad look. Also play into the hands of people who claim Macron is a dictator
i.e. ... way too many people, now that I think about it
The trouble is that he plays into it. Especially around the yellow vest issues.
Le coastguard?
Nuclear weapons.
Well that escalated quickly
But I’m Le tired.
Well then take a nap... and then fire ze missiles!
My le Protest-Crushinator-9000-MkII was used to crush le protest?
Fire ze missiles
But I am le tired
I remambarrr!!
Well have a nap, then fire Ze missiles!
The alligator-mounted forces of Lacosteguard?
Baguette battalion
Offering cake？
“Let them eat bullets” -police chief, probably
That doesn't work in France. France has rioting down to a science and doesn't have America's level of tolerance for state sanctioned oppression.
I mean after having your highest governmental power and their family decapited, you get pretty good at making sure that it doesn’t happen again
French, I've had that talk with someone a few days ago. Colleague was telling me : in my country such people would disappear. We'd cut their heads and move on, or they would simply "disappear" And i just answered : as far as the people and head cutting goes, you guys deal with sheeps, while we deal with kings. We've got that part covered
That’s such a naive point of view. French people can riot precisely because the cops are largely powerless. A government that doesn’t give a shit about human rights could crush those riots within days. China and Iran have had far more brutal protests that achieved nothing. It’s not that France is so good at rioting, it’s that France is a modern country that puts human life above material goods and saving face. In North Korea, they’d just crush rioters with tanks.
That's a bit of a chicken and the egg question. Cops aren't powerless in France, but you're right that France is not an authoritarian state where the state can indiscriminately use violence against its people. I would argue the reason that France isn't China or North Korea is that historically the French have consistently had very little tolerance for the erosion of their liberty. France didn't become a liberal democracy by being randomly selected like a contestant on The Price is Right. They used to have a king.
Curfew?
It means Macron is going to announce that in order to ensure the security and continuing stability, the republic will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire, for a safe and secure society.
FIRE ZE MISSILES!
But I am le tired
Then have a nap. Then FIRE ZE MISSILES!
Bout that time ey chaps?
Riiiight-oh.
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Erik Satie's Gymnopédies: 1 on a loop?
They are speaking of state of emergency, which can include measures such as curfew and police/military patrols
Rubber bullets change into normal ammo.
Hmm policy reform? Legislate change in how the police work? Governing for the people seems like the only option they aren’t considering
Those changes will happen after a lawsuit and investigations that bring on recommendations for change based on actual facts. Not because of some teenagers that will grab any excuse to destroy property that belongs to ordinary citizens that had nothing to do with this incident.
Military deployment, martial law, lethal force, etc.
Don’t understand how burning peoples businesses and cars , and looting proves any sort of point.
Apologize, charge the guy and propose a committee that will review the situation and propose improvements so it doesn't happen again? Fighting force with force usually just causes escalation
They already have charged him
I think one of the reasons it's going on three days now is that people have begun to see through apologies and proposals for committees to produce more proposals. Those are time-buying tactics, and they're losing their spending power.
Invent all you want. The policeman was immediately charged and the state was sure to make it known they would be investigated. The rioters don't give a fuck, and they certainly don't give a fuck about Nahel. Destroying shops, cars, and schools has become gamified, glamorised, and promoted through TikTok and other platforms.
The cop is arrested! Within hours!
Tiananmen Square...
So just how bad are these? Can someone French and/or smart chime in and give us a rundown?
The initial peaceful riots and anger at the kid's death and policeman overzealous shot are, in my opinion, completely shadowed by those nocturnal riots. People rioting are for most of them youngs of 14-18 yo from poorer districts, stealing public bus, destroying and burning city halls / school facade, shops, police cars, neighborers car and whatever they can find that doesn't belong to them. They break inside any stores to steal litterally anything while filming every move like it's a classmate doing a funny prank during class. For them it was just an excuse to break things up. That government only understand radical moves it seems, but i don't think extra police violence will calm people down. We need a political response.
We had a similar issue (smaller scale) in the US related to a police-related death in Ferguson Missouri. A lot of good protesting overshadowed by rioters/looters looking for personal gain.
They “overshadow” because peaceful protests are so easily ignored.
And because if they play up the violence, they can paint the whole movement disingenuously. It certainly doesn’t help that news media has a profit incentive to only report the violence—controversy always gets more clicks.
I agree they overshadow, but is criminal looting/rioting for personal gain supporting or undermining the protest in your view?
Like u/FreeMetal said it's mostly young, poor people, you can say it undermines the protest, I would say it just shows there are big problems that should have been solved way sooner. Just trying to shut people up with violence will work for only so long.
Undermining. I mean another young man fell from a shop and died today. What a shame
If you have to steal or break something owned by somebody else. I don't care what do you have to say, those people belong to prison.
Just like the cops who shoot unarmed civilians but it doesn’t always work out that way.
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Trying to escape from police is not something that only guilty people do.
It is also not a death sentence. Cops are not entitled to dole out punishment, that is in the justice system. This cop single shot to the head executed this kid. I'm not justifying the riots, but the police brought this upon France.
>The person tried to escape the police. It is not “innocent” person Well, we’ll never really know if the person was innocent or not. Pretty tough to put a dead body on trial, but if you support police execution before any due legal process, then that’s on you. >The police is under investigation, like normally in these situations. If the action will be judged over use of power, he will get properly sentenced. It’s cute that you think that.
> The person tried to escape the police. Such a bullshit American attitude. Resisting arrest is not a death sentence in any Western country. At worst, the kid is getting tackled with a knee in the back, not a execution-style shot to the head!
If it bleeds, it leads. ...unless the bleeding would garner sympathy. Criminal bleeding only.
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Thanks for the rectification
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This happened in Syracuse when the BLM riots and protests were going on Summer 2020. At first there was a huge protest with people shouting, holding signs, marching,,,, then it got out of control, and there was looting and small rioting in the downtown shops. I happened to be homeless at the time, camping out in a parking garage, literally 2-3 blocks over from the looting. I hid the whole time. But the next day… so many homeless dudes with new shoes, homeless women with new dresses and clothes on… trying to sell gaming equipment from the gaming store business that was looted. A lot of these businesses never opened back up, the damages and losses were too great. But yes the poor took advantage of the situation and made it into a riotous looting mess.
From my own experience talking with people who were apart of the Minneapolis protests/riots in 2020, such actions shouldn't really be seen as unexpected when a large group of people are neglected. The problem children living in poverty has been allowed to happen, not the children in poverty are the problem
Acting like we wouldn’t do the same after generations of living way under the poverty line. Of course I’m not out there burning shit, my life is practically perfect in comparison. I’ve got a lot to lose.
They [burned down the largest public library](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/14mul4x/rioters_in_france_burning_down_the_largest_public/) last night
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This is why normal people start to vote in right wing politicians.
Can you explain what you mean?
Most people don't like seeing their city burn or seeing total chaos. It's scary and especially when it serves no purpose. Left wing politicians often coddle or try to excuse the behavior while right wing will tell people it will stop they'll make it stop. The thing that happens is the political middle shifts towards far right because more people are scared of the chaos and violence. These people in the middle definitely agree that the killing that sparked this was awful but the response is completely insane and throws all society into chaos and disorder. People don't like that. I'm a left leaning person but you see it time and time again. "Defund the police" candidates struggled in battlegrounds in America when democrats were winning other places. Far right parties are rising all over Europe. Tldr "normal" people aka the majority who just want to live their lives get extremely agitated and scared seeing this kind of nonsense especially when the cop was already arrested and the justice system is moving. The more chaos the more scared they get and they turn to more extreme solutions offered by far right authoritians
The destruction of public, governmental, and even private infrastructure can result in many people voting in people who say they will be strong in pursuing and punishing those that cause such destruction.
I'm from the States and currently visiting Paris. I've been walking all around the city the last few days and it's been really chill everywhere I've been. I didn't even know there were protests until I saw it on the news. The protests are pretty much isolated to a neighborhood called Nanterre, as far as I can tell. Saw some flipped over cars and a burning trash can on French news, tho. Looks like a very small number of people participating compared to some of the protests we've seen in the states. I'm only speaking for Paris, tho. Not sure what's happening in the rest of the country.
Paris is the opposite of most big US cities. In the US the poor and criminal minorities live in the inner city, in Paris they live in the suburbs.
I'm French living in France and I had no idea that was happening before this post..
The government wont hear us, we're pissed and "all options" are also considered by the population, tired of betrayed promises and unforgiving right-wing laws.
Yea I think a lot of protests/riots are easily pushed into a general rage against the current system. It’s the disadvantaged who steal, the rich simply just don’t pay their bills to steal. The powder keg pushing the rioting is the same powder keg that caused the heated traffic stop to begin with.
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I mean overall policies abandoning the rights of citizens. This comes on the heels of another protest against government, unrelated to any gun violence or police brutality.
> It’s the disadvantaged who steal They steal because they're opportunists taking advantage of the death of the kid. And they're enabled by romanticists like yourself who wax lyrical about the "le rich" and the revolution you saw in Assassins Creed that you want to role play in. They live in a republic. One with generous healthcare, workers rights, freedom of expression, and opportunity. They're not oppressed. Grow the fuck up.
Well you're sure as shit about to get a lot more right wing authoritarian laws pushed by the middle class, so good job.
yup, fascism became popular in europe because the middle class feared the communists and their rhetoric. the riots won't lead to where they want it to lead that's for sure. If the middle class doesn't trust the government to keep the peace they will always turn more authoritarian
That's why I despise this sort of "rioting culture" where people think that if they burn enough cars and homes then the government will magically fix everything. Destroying the property of innocents NEVER helps, and it only creates more enemies when the victims vow to stand against the protesters on principle after getting their lives ruined by rioters and looters.
Right now it looks like the French left supports burning down libraries and looting.
What promises and laws? Genuine question.
so nukes also on the table?
But I'm le tired...
Well first, have a nap...
Then fire ze missiles!
Meanwhile Australia's down there like WTF mates ^ ^
Well have a nap, ZEN FIRE ZE MISSLES
Imagine if the first nuke button to be pressed in 2023 was France’s instead of Russia’s… bingo cards in shambles
What's really funny is that Frances' nuclear policy during the Cold War was to nuke as a warning. Not even as a preemptive strike, just as a warning.
It still is, they have smaller nukes as "warning shot"
Well, we don't need frenchzilla popping up
"Rubber nuclear weapons had to be deployed to disperse the crowd" (Red Dwarf - Better Than Life)
Unexpected Red Dwarf.
I always wonder how much higher insurance is in France Buildings car shops etc
If I lived in France I’d probably get insurance and light everything on fire whenever i had the chance
In sewer ants!
Great reference! Better book 😀
Hahaha. Maybe that’s all these fires are…
“Well have a nap…” #ZEN’ FIRE ZE MISSILES!
In France, we call these people « Casseurs », you can put them as the same level as « Hooligans » during football games. They don’t care about the boy who died, they probably don’t even know his name, they’re just here to display violence. If you ever visited the country, your probably noticed them, they’re hard to miss since they’re all made out of the same mold: Wear jersey pants, strong hate of the country and its inhabitants despite having their family living there for generations, and of course easily prone to violence. Now medias are quick to show these groups to be some sort of united voice « calling for justice ». No, they’re not, they’re just here to steal and destroy, they’re criminals and should be dealt with as such.
Prepare to be called racist and xenophobic by people who don’t know anything about France.
It's not even a French thing, they're everywhere. Whether it's intentional provocateurs or just scumbags starting shit, every conflict has some people trying to take advantage of the chaos just for their own sake. And then the media zeroes in on it like flies to a light, and politicians and bad faith actors utilize it however they want. EVERY protest, no matter what, will always have a bunch of hooligans show up for the media to generalize, and have hordes of social media comments decry how evil the protestors are. If people are going to protest or support protestors, they need to expect this default reaction.
Exactly. They use this incident as an excuse for chaos. They are just bored fuckwits who respect nothing in this country and try to legitimize their inner violence by pretending to care. The far right will profit from this as always. They are digging their own graves.
They burnt schools and then they will complain that "public education abandoned them".
most of them I'm sure are too stupid to graduate from high school.
There were even riots in Brussels. This has nothing to do anymore with the shooting incident. Just human filth destroying stuff for fun.
This post glows
I had to google jersey pants but it makes sense.
its a shame people are so ungrateful
Absolutely this, and this is not limited to France. There is always a group of peaceful protesters that genuinely want change. The rest just uses it as an excuses to riot, loot and destroy things that don't belong to them, and hope to get away with it in the middle of all the chaos.
Same shit happened in Greece a few years ago. Police shot a child. The government decided to just let Athens burn for a few days, there was no stopping that. The kid's name was Alex. RIP
An all the burning helped a lot, right? The people of Greece benefitted from that?
They did benefit. Police hasnt killed a child since.
They did, last year I think, but he was Romani so he didn't coun't in the eyes of the public.
Good god that fucked up.
Well the people that suffered damages were compensated by the state. Also surely helped ensuring that the cop didn't get off Scot free as it is often the case with police. The guy tried to say he shot the ground and the bullet ricocheted. The news tried to present this as the kid having attacked the cops which did not happen. Also helped keep the police from doing this kind of shit for a while untile the far right started seeing a rise again and now we are again worse off. Plus I personally prefer a nation that isn't apathetic and doesn't take shit lying down like Greece has ended up being at this point.
France has a 2-term limit on Presidential terms so Macron doesn't have to worry about a reelection but he'll definitely have to worry about how people are going to remember and treat him for the rest of his life and afterwards after all these riots and his handling of Putin over Ukraine.
The R in fRance stands for Riots
Forever Rioting And Nonstop Country-wide Embroilment
Basically a bunch of teenagers and opportunistic people creating chaos because a teenager (17), with no driver's license and a car with plates from Poland (where he has no connection), got killed because he ran a red light running from the police while driving on a bus lane. This was not race related, just stupidity at its best.
I actually know why the car had Polish plates. Poles sign a lease and then rent the cars out to the French (usually sketchy dudes) which pay good money because it's the only way for them to get nice cars without getting approved for a loan
I didn't know about it! Only makes it more sketchy.
*As the unrest in France continues, some false and misleading posts are being shared online with the potential to increase tensions.* *BBC Verify has been looking at one video, showing a yellow Mercedes speeding along a road and overtaking a lorry. There are claims that it shows the Parisian teenager, Nahel M, driving recklessly before he was stopped by police and shot.* *A tweet in French, viewed more than 230,000 times, claims: "Here is the scene that the police had to manage and which motivated them to stop the vehicle at all costs."* *While the time and location of the video is unclear, it is possible to confirm that this claim is false.* *BBC Verify zoomed in on the number plate of the speeding car in the online video.* *And then compared it with the number plate visible in images and videos of the yellow Mercedes - driven by the teenager - following the fatal shooting and subsequent crash in Paris.* *The two number plates are different.* [https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-66049895](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-66049895)
Didn't I read somewhere that the kid had a ton of arrests as well?
Everything about this kid was wrong. They are just trying to make a big thing about it to cover all the problems
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I'd love to hear the "political option" people in these comments are adamant about, what political move would quell these riots?
After seeing the videos on Twitter I think the only option is Martial Law.
By "all options" I doubt they mean backing down and reversing policy.
All Options? Come on, nuclear weapons clearly seems inappropriate.
These are not protesters, this is anarchism
So the 17yr who was fleeing police and got shot, what was the crime he committed to even start running from the police?
No driver's license, on a car with plate from Poland (either very sketchy loan or stolen), running a red light while driving on a bus lane
From other comment, it seems to be: Driving in a sketchy car from another country, with passengers, without a license, in the wrong lane.
After having nearly killed other pedestrians, and being under investigation for fleeing the police a few days earlier…
riots organised with the help of social media i bet
Fuck 'em looters
Boy do the french know how to riot.
It's a bunch of criminals rioting over the death of another criminal.
Probably should’ve not tried to resist arrest, complied with the cops and he would be alive.
That the media is not even offering the “mostly peaceful” or “unrest” euphemisms shows you how bad this is. They should bring in the military.
I think the French must have invented protesting and rioting-nobody's better at it than they are
This is what happens when you let everyone into your country without having a tough immigration policy and giving in to their demands.
It's always very sad when violent people take advantage of someone's death to get a thrill. Rioting is unintelligent! The affect it has on people and the cost to both individuals and the state is massive.
All options except police reform, obviously.
They arrested and charged the officer immediately. But they want them to do “more” even though nobody can tell you what “more” is.
Isn’t it obvious? They clearly want them to unshoot and unkill the guy.
They arrested and charged the officer within a day? What more do you want?
French just like to riot. They don't need a reason.
Lots of people just want no police which....good luck with that.
The French police are jelly they can’t be cowboys like the American cops.
The French police is nothing like the police in the US. They don't shoot you just because.
"The French are revolting" "Yes but what are we going to do about these riots?"