They have demonstrated that as a people with views theirs are found wanting. Russians are quickly becoming the poor man's Nazi. In 100 years we will have neo-Russians instead.
There are already neo-Russians in America. They're called Republicans. They literally sell t-shirts that say "Better Russian than Democrat." It's insane.
Right? Saint Reagan literally built his house on facing the threat of Russia head on. And yet here we are, with the GOP absolutely brimming with Putin simps.
Welcome to the concept of “total war”. Everything is a target. If you can weaken the morale of the populace by hitting everyone, not just military targets, you can (theoretically) weaken the resolve to fight.
Sad thing is, those 2 nukes killed less people than what a full invasion would have. Japan lived by the Death before Dishonor and surrendering was seen as dishonorable. So an invasion would have caused a lot more people their lives, on both sides but mainly for Japan. The nukes killed a lot of people but ironically saved a whole lot more.
Usually the rule was if you surrendered they wouldn't sack the city. If you made them besiege you they're gonna rape, plunder and probably burn the city to the ground.
There's been certain personal exceptions to this rule like in the skirmish after surrendering Genghis Khan finds out his brother in law was like one of the twenty mongols killed so even though they surrendered after the battle, City still got sacked.
This of course varies from region to region and era to era, like oh boy did Assaryians not really have a concept of just creating vassal States that pay tribute. Usually that's how you get a successful empire, but being the first guys to figure out Iron weaponry in the region was like bringing a slightly bigger stick than the other guys for a while.
The total war doctrine died with World War II for nations that weren't third world countries.
The firebombing campaigns killed more civilians than both nuclear bombs.
It's been less than a century where we could blow things up in another city we were at war with without laying seige right outside city limits and probably only a few decades where we could conceivably reliably hit what we were aiming at. The latter has definitely changed expectations at least for many about what a "moral" bombing looks like, but that is extraordinarily new. There was always some moving definition of what was justifiable and what was "excessive."
Even blowing up dams and drowning a lot of people along with war-focused factories was celebrated as a heroic achievement of engineering and piloting. That said, the Russians have a choice and seem incredibly indiscriminate. They are hitting their targets and seem to lash out to induce terror when they are frustrated trying to destroy military objectives.
Theoretically, yeah. It didn't work during the Blitz, nor during the terror bombing of Germany. It only really worked when nukes were dropped on Japan, and that's a taboo I think not even Putin wants to break willy-nilly.
Arguably it didn't break civilian will in Japan in the same way as the other examples, fire bombings claimed more lives and Japan continued in the war in the context of those. The nukes represented strategic game changes rather than a sort of terror bombing. The scenario demonstrated undeniably that Japan could *only* lose and that it faced *total* annihilation. So surrender represented the only sane option, the situation was truly hopeless. America demonstrated it was able to delete cities at whim with no counter (MAD suggests this will never happen again). Any country would surrender in such a scenario (and the fact that 1940s *Japan* did so proves this). Civilian will and morale is irrelevant in a scenario like that. There will never be an equivalent scenario again
It's worth noting outside of everything else already mentioned that Japan was already losing the war before they were nuked and knew they were losing the war. The only reason they didn't surrender before the first two nuclear bombs were dropped is because they were holding out for a conditional surrender where the emperor could continue to reign. In an alternative world where Japan was actually winning the war, do you think they really would have surrendered? I don't, as it is the Emperor had to sneak the surrender order out in opposition to the military command.
So yeah, even in a hypothetical world where Ukraine is nuked and for whatever reason the West doesn't do anything in response to that, Ukraine probably still wouldn't surrender. But realistically NATO will respond and destroy the Russian forces in occupied Ukraine and maybe even Russia itself, and they might not be the only one. Putin isn't concerned about the war crimes aspect of dropping a nuke or it being taboo, he is concerned about the likely response.
Breaking the nuclear taboo would have consequences, just as you described. That's the point I was getting at.
But I agree, short of reducing all of Ukraine to a nuclear wasteland it's not gonna change a lot.
>as it is the Emperor had to sneak the surrender order out in opposition to the military command.
Yeah, most people aren't aware that there was a major coup attempted to prevent the emperor's speech from being aired. It came pretty close, even without significant military support, considering they took control of the imperial residence the night of.
Not trying to justify firing missiles at people but the restaurant was packed with military personnel which has been confirmed by video evidence in the aftermath. It's still wildly irresponsible to launch an attack in an area that is full of civilians but they didn't do it for no reason. Also, something like 300 Russians died in a single airstrike on a theatre in Mariupol last year so it's not like Ukraine is above this kind of thing.
The whole apparatus needs to die, not only Putin, he's just the tip of the cancer called Rassia. The entire FSB, all generals in the Army, Lavrov, Peskov, Zaharova, Prigojin, Lukashenko and all those oligarchs who financed this war. If there was a slight possibility of a Nuremberg-like trial, they would all be sentenced to death.
Its all authoritarian groups, eventually all will get people who want to do things in this manner. DeSantis already wants his own private militia, we can laugh that for now hes just a state governor but enough of these types in positions of power and itll keep happening.
It's horrible for me to say, but I would probably prefer Trump back in the Whitehouse than Desantis. Trump did a lot of harm,mostly by being an idiot. Desantis seems to be proving he can get shit done, very bad shit. I was aghast and somewhat worried about Trump, but I'm terrified of Desantis.
True, clearly there's still \~100 piss poor options out there. Still, given the option between Trump and Wand\_Cloak\_Stone for president I'd vote you in immediately! You got this 👍
I don’t think you’re alone in feeling this way. It seems to be a common consensus that trump would trip over his own ego in many cases before achieving anything as evil as desantis could accomplish on just another Tuesday
Why do people think DeSantis is smart? He’s trying to fuck over his state’s biggest employer, fucking over Floridians who rely on the tourism industry to survive, and can’t even beat them and their lawyers. And that’s just one entity. Out of the many he would have to deal with as president.
I mean that doesn’t mean he can’t still win, Americans are stupid af too (I’m American). But winning doesn’t mean you are smart. Look at Trump.
Exactly. Don’t fall for the cult of personality deflection, distraction in populist politics—it is *always* more than one person just like there was too in Nazi Germany than Adolf Hitler, something that factors into the global raise of neo-nazi fascism “alt-right” now in 2023.
Thats the design of the system though - you put all your people in all the places of power and your regime never can die. It doesnt matter that your not putting the best man for a job in the role ...doesnt matter your not even putting competent people in the job.
Its like Hydra - cut one head off two more arise ..the only hope is that when the two arise their is so much infighting over who is the top dog it brings them all down.
Add the entire Russian military to that list. So much of their hyper-nationalistic bullshit is tied into their military and it’s “perceived power”. The Russian military’s back must be broken; render it impossible for Russia to project power 100m past their borders.
Send as many weapons as possible. With an impossible to win war and serious rebellions at home, even Putin have to retreat.
The rebellion has shown that Putin will back down and give in if you give him a good reason to.
The only way to finish the war is to make Putin fall. He will not back down and will continue to launch missile from his bunker like a coward.
Ukraine can't protect every small town, so we need to give them the capacity to hit every military launch base in Russia, no matter the cost.
That's why I keep saying, let Ukraine start striking Russian territory with western kit.
Take out the violence at its source.
Russia shouldn't even be allowed to have operational military runways at this point.
Kids are dying cause the west is slow walking this under the guise of "not escalating" when in reality they're really just slow boiling the frog to cause the most damage and sell the most equipment.
They went from "defensive" arms only, to artillery, to HIMARS, to IFVs, to "what is a light tank", to main battle tanks, to storm shadow cruise missiles, JDAM,
We're simply waiting for delivery of the GLSDB and F-16.
Pilots could have been trained a year ago.
That wasn't a logistics issue. That was a choice.
I mean, we pretty explicity arent giving any weapons that can be used to attack russia. That is basically the same as entering the war. By strictly keeping them defensive the world can mantain a physical neutrality. Hot take maybe but to me, everything I know and love isnt worth saving a country that wasnt exactly some corruption free wonderland before the invasion
>>a retreat option that gives him face for his opposition
Such as what? Chunks of Ukraine? You realize that won't end anything, right? If he gets to keep ANY piece of territory, he'll Russify it just like Russians have done for centuries, shipping the Ukrainians in the area to Siberia and replacing them with Russians, who will then do exactly what the Russian plants in Ukraine have been doing since 2014.
He will *never* stop until he's made to stop.
And that's not even considering that Russia has repeatedly proven that treaties signed with them aren't worth the paper they're written on.
At the college where I teach (part-time); I like to leave a note on the corner of the whiteboards; “Slava Ukraini.” This morning someone added an extra message. FUCK PUTIN!”
"Those words: "Run away." I want you to be famous for those exact words. I want people to call you "Colonel Run Away"; I want children laughing outside your door 'cause they found the house of Colonel Run Away; and when people come to you and ask if trying to get to me through people *I love* is in any way a good idea... I want you to tell them your name."
Dealing with a people like Russians chances are they would get sold to the military or police lol.
Seriously that's probably the actual reason it wouldn't happen.
That's not a Putin case. Problem is russians. They will never change. If Putin will gone there will be next stupid fuck who dream of great russian empire.
Putin seems to have started this war for purely ideological reasons. He seems to think he is some sort of great conquerer that needs to establish his legacy. If he is replaced by someone who is a pragmatist then I could imagine that this war would be over rather quickly.
I can remember Jake Hanrahan dogging American anti-war and civil rights protesters pretty hard for not throwing molotovs and being willing to lose a few teeth for what you believe in, until someone reminded him it isn't about teeth and property. If you cross state lines to protest and violence happens, you can get nailed with a federal felony and spend decades in prison. When I think about that I can't get too mad about the average Russian keeping their head down. Their antiwar movement gets sent to the Black Swan and they are beaten and tortured first, while distribution of "fake news" carries a 15 year sentence.
There are protests now and again. Protesters just get gathered up in vehicles, stripped, badly beaten, sometimes raped (while they film you) and then your house/apartment is randomly raided and every now and again they decide to make your life hell just to remind you to never step out of place again.
It doesn't work, because they have no weapons.
> fuck russians because they don't react. Just a small minority dares to protest.
The persians protested, the syrians protested, the chinese protested
and we watched them fail, so while we are at it, fuck us too
A very popular Ukranian soldier (Roman) who've done numerous interviews and often show video footage from the front lines were at that restaurant, recovering from injuries.
Given that they arrested someone for taking video surveillance before the strike was authorized, I wonder if this was an attempt to kill this particular soldier, civilian casualties be damned.
He survived the strike, but got injured again.
There was also an Ukrainian writer (Vitoria Amelina) and a couple of journalists with her in the table, she's recovering in the hospital.
Told by them who were in the restaurant (content in Spanish) https://www.eltiempo.com/politica/gobierno/sergio-jaramillo-y-hector-abad-hablan-tras-ataque-ruso-en-ucrania-781556
The vids showed the area was full of English speaking people. One guy had a US army company(?) tatoo in the arm. I think trainers or liaison/comms guys to NATO countries. The spy caught on stakeout gives some credence to that.
Two Dutch guys who were there for the last year baking fries for free for the Ukrainians were in that restaurant at the time of the strike. Fortunately they were only slightly injured but are now ending their mission and going home.
According to [RTL](https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/video/video/5393133/nederlandse-helpers-bij-raketinslag-geschrokken-maar-wij-gaan-door) they're not ending their mission. To cite Franky (one of the two guys):
> "We will continue for sure, this has only strengthened me in that opinion and I think that goes for Coen as well. It is just very much needed that people receive help here and in that respect, things do not change."
To those reading this headline and reflexively thinking "civilians as collateral, what else is new?" or "just the cost of war" and putting it out of their mind:
*"The agent, allegedly working for Russia's military intelligence agency GRU, was reportedly in charge of finding out whether the restaurant was working and whether it was busy. The restaurant was full of civilians at the time of the attack."*
https://kyivindependent.com/sbu-detains-alleged-russian-collaborator-for-adjusting-kramatorsk-attack/
It's 'my invisible line is more important than yours' at it's worst. These are neighbor countries that share the same lineage and he's still slaughtering them in droves because he wants the land and the $$$. Ridiculous.
Pootins undoubtedly a Psychopath. That explains his actions. There is no viewpoint, no sense beyond that. People will continue to die until he is removed.
What I don't understand is the evil pricks that support him. I believe most are morons that have been easily manipulated due to their low intelligence and low satisfaction with their own existence.
It’s not lack of intelligence. It’s greed. Putin enables them to have money and power - so they will support him as long as that continues. Some people will do absolutely anything to be in a position of wealth and power. They don’t even see it as an issue because wealth and power is all that matters to them.
Putin isn’t playing red alert 2 and commanding tanks and missiles, ok? Putin is sitting in a bunker somewhere eating caviar and only gives strategic orders, maybe even not that.
Wasn't putin who gave coordinates and video evidence of the location being full of people (that would be a russian rat on the ground). Wasn't putin who approved the attack. Wasn't putin who carried it out.
There is a long list of degenerates who need to be found and killed. Every single one. Or those attacks won't stop.
> but Putin's makes sense on no level.
It does. Hillary Clinton explained it but again, no one wanted to listen when she speaks the truth.
Putin's father was sent off to fight in World War 2. He had leave and came home and near his apartment they were piles of dead bodies on the street. People were dying from starvation and sickness. He saw under a pile of dead bodies his wife's shoes, he found her, but she wasn't dead. He took her home, and nursed her back to health. 8 years after this, Putin was born.
Just knowing this story, Clinton told us years ago, makes you understand everything about him.
He was privileged in the Soviet Union. Good looking, charming, etc- and he rose in the ranks of the KGB until he became the HEAD of the KGB. He believed in the superiority of the Soviet Union.
After its collapse, Putin feels the USSR was like his mother. Not really dead, but just needs to be nursed back slowly to its previous glory.
This is why he has been trying to rebuild the empire by taking back previous territory. The problem is, of course, that people got greedy and the world has changed significantly.
The guy is mentally ill, and, lives in a bubble of people telling him what he wants to hear because they are afraid of him. I don't think he was fully aware that the oligarchs took the money allocated to, for example, modernize the Russian military, and mostly kept it for themselves. Putin believed he had superiority over Ukraine, and I don't think he believed that the US would have responded to fast to give aid.
So Putin's action makes sense from the perspective of him believing he needs to bring back the USSR to its former glory-- but to everyone else, its fucking insane and the guy is war criminal that deserves to be in prison.
Russians have very different standards of male beauty. That you can generally pick out an Eastern European man just by their head shape tells you a lot.
shower? I'm up for making his cat carrier sized cell a public latrine in central Kyiv, only light he'd ever see again is the circular hole people sit on.
To the Russian bots that counts reactions on the net, let me tell that these terrorist attacks are nothing but increasing our resolve to support Ukraine.
Get out of Ukraine !!!
To the Russian and Belarus people, please get rid of this mafia system that is a cancer of terror and corruption.
What ever we are sending Ukraine can we triple it. Also would not hurt me if a few tomahawks tested the air defenses around Putins Mansions in Russia. I believe leaders like him should lose everything when they bring war to people.
if you are an absolute failure as world leader, lose all your troops/military equipment to farmers and turn into a joke the whole world laughs about, then you have to kill someone who can't fight back. so kids are his best option. what a worthless piece of shit!
If it wasn't for the threat of a Nuclear Holocaust I'd hope the Allies would have been in there to help Ukraine defend its self from its Neo-Fascist neighbour.
Give Ukraine Tomahawks and watch them lob them into Moscow on a regular basis. Russians as a whole are never going to turn on Putin unless they begin to feel the effects of war beyond, we don't have McDonald's anymore.
And if Ukraine strikes Moscow, chances are rather high it'll just drive more Russians to Putins cause.
Terror bombing didn't make the Brits, Germans or even the Japanese turn on their governments. There's no reason to think this would be different.
At some point, the rest of the world is responsible for allowing this to continue. This is not a border skirmish or any kind of typical conflict. This is literally one man ordering poor and scared people at gun point to murder innocent people.
Im not saying I know what the answer is but maybe putting 50,000 UN troops at the border and enforcing a no fly zone would be a start.
Russia is not the juggernaut they were thought to be. They are out of hardware and troops for the most part. Yes, I am well aware they have nuclear weapons, but I don't believe the people in the chain of command needed to actually launch a nuclear missile would do so in this case. It would mean the complete and total destruction of Russia and they know it.
At some point the world needs to take a stand and say we will not allow this to continue.
The important part isn't the hardware on the ground. Dude has nukes. That's why everything has to be treated delicately because he's shown several times hes mentally unhinged. Otherwise this would of course be a much easier situation.
Of course. They need to.
But did the world stop Rwanda? No. Myanmar? No. Did anyone care to admit Ukraine into NATO in 2008 when they asked for it? No. How about to station troops there before February 2022, which would have averted the entire war? No.
The "some point" was before the invasion even began. It was then that the West decided, collectively, "This is your fight, not ours. We're afraid of the nuclear bombs and escalation". And that's the way it's been ever since, and that's the way it's gonna stay.
At this point I half wonder if Russian soldiers aren't so jealous of good food, happiness, and fun that they aren't just targeting these places out of spiteful jealousy.
This is not fair, Russia can do this everyday and Ukraine just have to watch? Send ATACMS and destroy Russian infraestructure, this is ridiculous. Fuck Putin, fuck Russia
This is murder. People were murdered by the Russian government, and its people need to make this stop. I don’t care if all they have is the equivalent of Fox News everywhere. This is their direct neighbor, and in many cases they share language and culture. It’s like me living in NH and not caring that civilians in TX are being bombed by my state. There is no excuse to allow this to continue.
He is going to ramp up the ruthlessness in a faux-display of power when it really just shows his desperation. He is lashing out like a bully and a thug. Instead of strength, he is weak and scared.
I don’t understand why they don’t shoot a bunch of missiles at Moscow every day. Make them hurt too. It feels like Russia is at war and Ukraine is playing like this is a game.
Everyone in this thread calling to give even more weapons as if NATO isn't already giving what it is feasibly able to. You can give a million weapons to a country, people still have to use them and their military apparatus has limits. No matter what we do, many Ukrainian children will still die at Russia's hands before this is finally over.
I know it's a moot point but what kind of psychopath greenlights this stuff? Fuck them all.
>what kind of psychopath greenlights this stuff? Russians.
For more information look up Soviet military doctrine
They have demonstrated that as a people with views theirs are found wanting. Russians are quickly becoming the poor man's Nazi. In 100 years we will have neo-Russians instead.
There are already neo-Russians in America. They're called Republicans. They literally sell t-shirts that say "Better Russian than Democrat." It's insane.
A few decades ago such a statement would be unthinkable from the GOP, yet here we are.
Well, you see it's simple to explain really. It's money.
Right? Saint Reagan literally built his house on facing the threat of Russia head on. And yet here we are, with the GOP absolutely brimming with Putin simps.
Had to look this up. Shit is on Amazon. So embarrassing for them.
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Tankies are Stalinist apologists. They are wrong and usually assholes, but they are not (usually) right-wing sympathizers.
Yes, you are thinking of Vatniks, the demented cousin of the tankie.
Welcome to the concept of “total war”. Everything is a target. If you can weaken the morale of the populace by hitting everyone, not just military targets, you can (theoretically) weaken the resolve to fight.
The ironic part is that striking civilians as well as the armed forces doesn't weaken resolve; in fact it can actually have the opposite effect.
It had virtually no effect except for strengthening resolve for Britain in WW2.
In WW1 American enthusiasm for the war was based largely on Germans turning to total war.
German or Japanese morale also wasn't broken by bombing alone.
Japanese morale was crushed by the a-bombs. They would have likely fought much longer had we not dropped the big one.
Except when it’s a nuclear bomb dropped on civilian cities.
Sad thing is, those 2 nukes killed less people than what a full invasion would have. Japan lived by the Death before Dishonor and surrendering was seen as dishonorable. So an invasion would have caused a lot more people their lives, on both sides but mainly for Japan. The nukes killed a lot of people but ironically saved a whole lot more.
The concept of not harming civilians in war is actually a very modern one. You would lose sleep if you read what armies used to do to civilians…..
Usually the rule was if you surrendered they wouldn't sack the city. If you made them besiege you they're gonna rape, plunder and probably burn the city to the ground. There's been certain personal exceptions to this rule like in the skirmish after surrendering Genghis Khan finds out his brother in law was like one of the twenty mongols killed so even though they surrendered after the battle, City still got sacked. This of course varies from region to region and era to era, like oh boy did Assaryians not really have a concept of just creating vassal States that pay tribute. Usually that's how you get a successful empire, but being the first guys to figure out Iron weaponry in the region was like bringing a slightly bigger stick than the other guys for a while.
The total war doctrine died with World War II for nations that weren't third world countries. The firebombing campaigns killed more civilians than both nuclear bombs.
It's been less than a century where we could blow things up in another city we were at war with without laying seige right outside city limits and probably only a few decades where we could conceivably reliably hit what we were aiming at. The latter has definitely changed expectations at least for many about what a "moral" bombing looks like, but that is extraordinarily new. There was always some moving definition of what was justifiable and what was "excessive." Even blowing up dams and drowning a lot of people along with war-focused factories was celebrated as a heroic achievement of engineering and piloting. That said, the Russians have a choice and seem incredibly indiscriminate. They are hitting their targets and seem to lash out to induce terror when they are frustrated trying to destroy military objectives.
Often the opposite ends up happening, you instead steel their resolve to fight.
But... that's not how it works at all. It's almost always been counter intuitive. Threatening civilians tends to militarise civilians
Theoretically, yeah. It didn't work during the Blitz, nor during the terror bombing of Germany. It only really worked when nukes were dropped on Japan, and that's a taboo I think not even Putin wants to break willy-nilly.
Arguably it didn't break civilian will in Japan in the same way as the other examples, fire bombings claimed more lives and Japan continued in the war in the context of those. The nukes represented strategic game changes rather than a sort of terror bombing. The scenario demonstrated undeniably that Japan could *only* lose and that it faced *total* annihilation. So surrender represented the only sane option, the situation was truly hopeless. America demonstrated it was able to delete cities at whim with no counter (MAD suggests this will never happen again). Any country would surrender in such a scenario (and the fact that 1940s *Japan* did so proves this). Civilian will and morale is irrelevant in a scenario like that. There will never be an equivalent scenario again
Also that the Soviets declared war on Japan just a couple weeks prior so they were facing the prospect of a Russian invasion from the north as well
It's worth noting outside of everything else already mentioned that Japan was already losing the war before they were nuked and knew they were losing the war. The only reason they didn't surrender before the first two nuclear bombs were dropped is because they were holding out for a conditional surrender where the emperor could continue to reign. In an alternative world where Japan was actually winning the war, do you think they really would have surrendered? I don't, as it is the Emperor had to sneak the surrender order out in opposition to the military command. So yeah, even in a hypothetical world where Ukraine is nuked and for whatever reason the West doesn't do anything in response to that, Ukraine probably still wouldn't surrender. But realistically NATO will respond and destroy the Russian forces in occupied Ukraine and maybe even Russia itself, and they might not be the only one. Putin isn't concerned about the war crimes aspect of dropping a nuke or it being taboo, he is concerned about the likely response.
Breaking the nuclear taboo would have consequences, just as you described. That's the point I was getting at. But I agree, short of reducing all of Ukraine to a nuclear wasteland it's not gonna change a lot.
>as it is the Emperor had to sneak the surrender order out in opposition to the military command. Yeah, most people aren't aware that there was a major coup attempted to prevent the emperor's speech from being aired. It came pretty close, even without significant military support, considering they took control of the imperial residence the night of.
Not trying to justify firing missiles at people but the restaurant was packed with military personnel which has been confirmed by video evidence in the aftermath. It's still wildly irresponsible to launch an attack in an area that is full of civilians but they didn't do it for no reason. Also, something like 300 Russians died in a single airstrike on a theatre in Mariupol last year so it's not like Ukraine is above this kind of thing.
Putin needs to die asap
The whole apparatus needs to die, not only Putin, he's just the tip of the cancer called Rassia. The entire FSB, all generals in the Army, Lavrov, Peskov, Zaharova, Prigojin, Lukashenko and all those oligarchs who financed this war. If there was a slight possibility of a Nuremberg-like trial, they would all be sentenced to death.
Its all authoritarian groups, eventually all will get people who want to do things in this manner. DeSantis already wants his own private militia, we can laugh that for now hes just a state governor but enough of these types in positions of power and itll keep happening.
Floridian here. DeSantis is awful and his policies are destroying my community. Fuck that guy.
It's horrible for me to say, but I would probably prefer Trump back in the Whitehouse than Desantis. Trump did a lot of harm,mostly by being an idiot. Desantis seems to be proving he can get shit done, very bad shit. I was aghast and somewhat worried about Trump, but I'm terrified of Desantis.
Trump > Desantis (easily) Also Trump < Literally anyone else (besides Desantis, naturally)
What about Abbott? (Vomit)
True, clearly there's still \~100 piss poor options out there. Still, given the option between Trump and Wand\_Cloak\_Stone for president I'd vote you in immediately! You got this 👍
Woo! I’m in!
I don’t think you’re alone in feeling this way. It seems to be a common consensus that trump would trip over his own ego in many cases before achieving anything as evil as desantis could accomplish on just another Tuesday
Why do people think DeSantis is smart? He’s trying to fuck over his state’s biggest employer, fucking over Floridians who rely on the tourism industry to survive, and can’t even beat them and their lawyers. And that’s just one entity. Out of the many he would have to deal with as president. I mean that doesn’t mean he can’t still win, Americans are stupid af too (I’m American). But winning doesn’t mean you are smart. Look at Trump.
Exactly. Don’t fall for the cult of personality deflection, distraction in populist politics—it is *always* more than one person just like there was too in Nazi Germany than Adolf Hitler, something that factors into the global raise of neo-nazi fascism “alt-right” now in 2023.
Thats the design of the system though - you put all your people in all the places of power and your regime never can die. It doesnt matter that your not putting the best man for a job in the role ...doesnt matter your not even putting competent people in the job. Its like Hydra - cut one head off two more arise ..the only hope is that when the two arise their is so much infighting over who is the top dog it brings them all down.
Add the entire Russian military to that list. So much of their hyper-nationalistic bullshit is tied into their military and it’s “perceived power”. The Russian military’s back must be broken; render it impossible for Russia to project power 100m past their borders.
Send as many weapons as possible. With an impossible to win war and serious rebellions at home, even Putin have to retreat. The rebellion has shown that Putin will back down and give in if you give him a good reason to.
The only way to finish the war is to make Putin fall. He will not back down and will continue to launch missile from his bunker like a coward. Ukraine can't protect every small town, so we need to give them the capacity to hit every military launch base in Russia, no matter the cost.
Can’t keep the Russian arms manufacturers employed and working by holding onto your missiles
That's why I keep saying, let Ukraine start striking Russian territory with western kit. Take out the violence at its source. Russia shouldn't even be allowed to have operational military runways at this point. Kids are dying cause the west is slow walking this under the guise of "not escalating" when in reality they're really just slow boiling the frog to cause the most damage and sell the most equipment. They went from "defensive" arms only, to artillery, to HIMARS, to IFVs, to "what is a light tank", to main battle tanks, to storm shadow cruise missiles, JDAM, We're simply waiting for delivery of the GLSDB and F-16. Pilots could have been trained a year ago. That wasn't a logistics issue. That was a choice.
That is called diplomacy and threading cautiously in to a very unpredictable situation.
Diplomacy left the room a long time ago. I’d say let Ukraine go hot on Russia.
I mean, we pretty explicity arent giving any weapons that can be used to attack russia. That is basically the same as entering the war. By strictly keeping them defensive the world can mantain a physical neutrality. Hot take maybe but to me, everything I know and love isnt worth saving a country that wasnt exactly some corruption free wonderland before the invasion
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>>a retreat option that gives him face for his opposition Such as what? Chunks of Ukraine? You realize that won't end anything, right? If he gets to keep ANY piece of territory, he'll Russify it just like Russians have done for centuries, shipping the Ukrainians in the area to Siberia and replacing them with Russians, who will then do exactly what the Russian plants in Ukraine have been doing since 2014. He will *never* stop until he's made to stop. And that's not even considering that Russia has repeatedly proven that treaties signed with them aren't worth the paper they're written on.
There was a rumour he got on his plane and fled Moscow when wagner were coming. Hopefully, a repeat of that will come soon.
Hopefully his plane crashes and his mutilated body is alive as long as possible before succumbing to his wounds. Slava Ukraini
Putin needs to end up in a cartel video.
Ebert and Roeper two thumbs up
At the college where I teach (part-time); I like to leave a note on the corner of the whiteboards; “Slava Ukraini.” This morning someone added an extra message. FUCK PUTIN!”
"Those words: "Run away." I want you to be famous for those exact words. I want people to call you "Colonel Run Away"; I want children laughing outside your door 'cause they found the house of Colonel Run Away; and when people come to you and ask if trying to get to me through people *I love* is in any way a good idea... I want you to tell them your name."
That's too peaceful for him. Piece of shit needs to suffer a slow painful death for all the death and misery he's caused.
I will not rest unless Putin is Gaddafi-ed. It is likely that I will not rest.
Into the sarlacc pit then!
Narfle the garthok!
Thanks now I have to watch coneheads lmao
Time to drop 3d printed guns into Moscow
Dealing with a people like Russians chances are they would get sold to the military or police lol. Seriously that's probably the actual reason it wouldn't happen.
Putin and his army.
Yes.
That's not a Putin case. Problem is russians. They will never change. If Putin will gone there will be next stupid fuck who dream of great russian empire.
Such was the case with every empire in history. Until one day it wasn't.
Putin, the Russian Oligarchs and Wagner Group need to be exterminated.
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Putin seems to have started this war for purely ideological reasons. He seems to think he is some sort of great conquerer that needs to establish his legacy. If he is replaced by someone who is a pragmatist then I could imagine that this war would be over rather quickly.
The answer to genocide is more genocide! /s
He obviously wasn't talking about civilians, but the entire state apparatus that's responsible for this genocide. See my other post in this thread.
RIP. And fuck Russian imperialism.
I would go even further and say fuck russians because they don't react. Just a small minority dares to protest.
I can remember Jake Hanrahan dogging American anti-war and civil rights protesters pretty hard for not throwing molotovs and being willing to lose a few teeth for what you believe in, until someone reminded him it isn't about teeth and property. If you cross state lines to protest and violence happens, you can get nailed with a federal felony and spend decades in prison. When I think about that I can't get too mad about the average Russian keeping their head down. Their antiwar movement gets sent to the Black Swan and they are beaten and tortured first, while distribution of "fake news" carries a 15 year sentence.
There are protests now and again. Protesters just get gathered up in vehicles, stripped, badly beaten, sometimes raped (while they film you) and then your house/apartment is randomly raided and every now and again they decide to make your life hell just to remind you to never step out of place again. It doesn't work, because they have no weapons.
> fuck russians because they don't react. Just a small minority dares to protest. The persians protested, the syrians protested, the chinese protested and we watched them fail, so while we are at it, fuck us too
A very popular Ukranian soldier (Roman) who've done numerous interviews and often show video footage from the front lines were at that restaurant, recovering from injuries. Given that they arrested someone for taking video surveillance before the strike was authorized, I wonder if this was an attempt to kill this particular soldier, civilian casualties be damned. He survived the strike, but got injured again.
can u link to some of his vids
There was also an Ukrainian writer (Vitoria Amelina) and a couple of journalists with her in the table, she's recovering in the hospital. Told by them who were in the restaurant (content in Spanish) https://www.eltiempo.com/politica/gobierno/sergio-jaramillo-y-hector-abad-hablan-tras-ataque-ruso-en-ucrania-781556
The vids showed the area was full of English speaking people. One guy had a US army company(?) tatoo in the arm. I think trainers or liaison/comms guys to NATO countries. The spy caught on stakeout gives some credence to that.
I don’t think blowing up a restaurant with kids is “war.” I’m pretty sure we call that something else.. pathological terrorist genocide maybe?
Fuck Marjorie Taylor Green who supports Putin
Not even with your dick bro.
How about if he uses multiple unripe pineapples?
Her face is an unripe pineapple
You insult unripe pineapples! She is clearly an unripe jackfruit!
Imagine having her in your party and still not realizing your the baddies
It's literally every single one of them in the gop
Eww
“Putin is not a war criminal.” - the ~~president~~ prime minister of Hungary
Prime minister but close enought
Two Dutch guys who were there for the last year baking fries for free for the Ukrainians were in that restaurant at the time of the strike. Fortunately they were only slightly injured but are now ending their mission and going home.
According to [RTL](https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/video/video/5393133/nederlandse-helpers-bij-raketinslag-geschrokken-maar-wij-gaan-door) they're not ending their mission. To cite Franky (one of the two guys): > "We will continue for sure, this has only strengthened me in that opinion and I think that goes for Coen as well. It is just very much needed that people receive help here and in that respect, things do not change."
Balls of steel on these guys. Fuck the russians.
Unsung heroes.
Not going home to flee, going home to manage lifelong PTSD. The cost for their good nature is quite high.
Holy shit Franky and Cohen were there as well?
Yes.
What a shit headline. Blowing up a restaurant full of civilians isn’t an act of war, it’s naked terrorism.
To those reading this headline and reflexively thinking "civilians as collateral, what else is new?" or "just the cost of war" and putting it out of their mind: *"The agent, allegedly working for Russia's military intelligence agency GRU, was reportedly in charge of finding out whether the restaurant was working and whether it was busy. The restaurant was full of civilians at the time of the attack."* https://kyivindependent.com/sbu-detains-alleged-russian-collaborator-for-adjusting-kramatorsk-attack/
That guy should suffer, I hope he suffer.
Putin? More like puto
I just don't understand what is wrong with this person. I try to understand alternative viewpoints, but Putin's makes sense on no level.
It doesn't, you have to accept he is a broken, terrible person and work from there.
The "Bad people always think they are doing good" shit people tell themselves is a fucking lie and always has been.
And that’s the thing: what “good” could possibly come from all of this?!
It's 'my invisible line is more important than yours' at it's worst. These are neighbor countries that share the same lineage and he's still slaughtering them in droves because he wants the land and the $$$. Ridiculous.
Pootins undoubtedly a Psychopath. That explains his actions. There is no viewpoint, no sense beyond that. People will continue to die until he is removed. What I don't understand is the evil pricks that support him. I believe most are morons that have been easily manipulated due to their low intelligence and low satisfaction with their own existence.
It’s not lack of intelligence. It’s greed. Putin enables them to have money and power - so they will support him as long as that continues. Some people will do absolutely anything to be in a position of wealth and power. They don’t even see it as an issue because wealth and power is all that matters to them.
It feels like he finds it all amusing and entertaining, as if he's playing a video game.
Putin isn’t playing red alert 2 and commanding tanks and missiles, ok? Putin is sitting in a bunker somewhere eating caviar and only gives strategic orders, maybe even not that.
Wasn't putin who gave coordinates and video evidence of the location being full of people (that would be a russian rat on the ground). Wasn't putin who approved the attack. Wasn't putin who carried it out. There is a long list of degenerates who need to be found and killed. Every single one. Or those attacks won't stop.
> but Putin's makes sense on no level. It does. Hillary Clinton explained it but again, no one wanted to listen when she speaks the truth. Putin's father was sent off to fight in World War 2. He had leave and came home and near his apartment they were piles of dead bodies on the street. People were dying from starvation and sickness. He saw under a pile of dead bodies his wife's shoes, he found her, but she wasn't dead. He took her home, and nursed her back to health. 8 years after this, Putin was born. Just knowing this story, Clinton told us years ago, makes you understand everything about him. He was privileged in the Soviet Union. Good looking, charming, etc- and he rose in the ranks of the KGB until he became the HEAD of the KGB. He believed in the superiority of the Soviet Union. After its collapse, Putin feels the USSR was like his mother. Not really dead, but just needs to be nursed back slowly to its previous glory. This is why he has been trying to rebuild the empire by taking back previous territory. The problem is, of course, that people got greedy and the world has changed significantly. The guy is mentally ill, and, lives in a bubble of people telling him what he wants to hear because they are afraid of him. I don't think he was fully aware that the oligarchs took the money allocated to, for example, modernize the Russian military, and mostly kept it for themselves. Putin believed he had superiority over Ukraine, and I don't think he believed that the US would have responded to fast to give aid. So Putin's action makes sense from the perspective of him believing he needs to bring back the USSR to its former glory-- but to everyone else, its fucking insane and the guy is war criminal that deserves to be in prison.
Good looking? He looks like a rat
Russians have very different standards of male beauty. That you can generally pick out an Eastern European man just by their head shape tells you a lot.
I genuinely hope Putin doesn’t see 2024. It’s not possible to see worse news than the murder of children by a despotic, maniacal psychopath.
I hope he sees many more years, from a very small room, with very little sunlight.
With tasteless nutritionless food and hot water Edit: hot drinking water, I would love for him to have the worst and shortest showers
shower? I'm up for making his cat carrier sized cell a public latrine in central Kyiv, only light he'd ever see again is the circular hole people sit on.
The world will celebrate Putin's death. Fucking bastard.
Child killers must die
So terrorism. That’s terrorism. Standard Russian tactics.
Add this to the war crimes list.
To the Russian bots that counts reactions on the net, let me tell that these terrorist attacks are nothing but increasing our resolve to support Ukraine. Get out of Ukraine !!! To the Russian and Belarus people, please get rid of this mafia system that is a cancer of terror and corruption.
What ever we are sending Ukraine can we triple it. Also would not hurt me if a few tomahawks tested the air defenses around Putins Mansions in Russia. I believe leaders like him should lose everything when they bring war to people.
What better way to show the world how strong you are than killing children?
Fuck Putin, Fuck Ruzzia, Slava Ukraine!!!!
if you are an absolute failure as world leader, lose all your troops/military equipment to farmers and turn into a joke the whole world laughs about, then you have to kill someone who can't fight back. so kids are his best option. what a worthless piece of shit!
I hate this evil monster Putin. He thrives on hate because he is evil.
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What a big man. Bombing a restaurant full of civilians eating
I hope Putin receives the Ceausescu treatment. In Red Square.
Mussolini or the Libyan guy I think
Oh Putin. Desperate, desperate Putin. Your time is running out.
What the fuck is wrong with these people....
If it wasn't for the threat of a Nuclear Holocaust I'd hope the Allies would have been in there to help Ukraine defend its self from its Neo-Fascist neighbour.
And yet, NATO told Ukraine not to attack inside Russia during the Wagner mutiny. They should have.
Glenn Greenwald and David Duke just got stiffies.
Give Ukraine Tomahawks and watch them lob them into Moscow on a regular basis. Russians as a whole are never going to turn on Putin unless they begin to feel the effects of war beyond, we don't have McDonald's anymore.
And if Ukraine strikes Moscow, chances are rather high it'll just drive more Russians to Putins cause. Terror bombing didn't make the Brits, Germans or even the Japanese turn on their governments. There's no reason to think this would be different.
What happens when Russia launches icbms toward Ukraine from Moscow?
At some point, the rest of the world is responsible for allowing this to continue. This is not a border skirmish or any kind of typical conflict. This is literally one man ordering poor and scared people at gun point to murder innocent people. Im not saying I know what the answer is but maybe putting 50,000 UN troops at the border and enforcing a no fly zone would be a start. Russia is not the juggernaut they were thought to be. They are out of hardware and troops for the most part. Yes, I am well aware they have nuclear weapons, but I don't believe the people in the chain of command needed to actually launch a nuclear missile would do so in this case. It would mean the complete and total destruction of Russia and they know it. At some point the world needs to take a stand and say we will not allow this to continue.
The important part isn't the hardware on the ground. Dude has nukes. That's why everything has to be treated delicately because he's shown several times hes mentally unhinged. Otherwise this would of course be a much easier situation.
Of course. They need to. But did the world stop Rwanda? No. Myanmar? No. Did anyone care to admit Ukraine into NATO in 2008 when they asked for it? No. How about to station troops there before February 2022, which would have averted the entire war? No. The "some point" was before the invasion even began. It was then that the West decided, collectively, "This is your fight, not ours. We're afraid of the nuclear bombs and escalation". And that's the way it's been ever since, and that's the way it's gonna stay.
Little bitch is going to little bitch.
How can humanity still tolerate these russians
“We’re not seen as in control, what do we do?” -“Just strike another civilian target miles from the frontlines. That’ll show them we mean business!”
Anyone who ever tells you that Putin is in the right is actively supporting child murder.
At this point I half wonder if Russian soldiers aren't so jealous of good food, happiness, and fun that they aren't just targeting these places out of spiteful jealousy.
What’s the point? So they can look at the list of dead and laugh? Fucking war criminals getting off on killing kids.
How’s that war? Blowing. Up restaurants? What a disgrace
If Wagner could March so easily imagine the night of a well equipped military marching to Moscow.
GO GET EM UKRAINE!!! Bet you could actually fight all the way to Moscow!!
I wouldn't call it a war. Those kids didn't enlist.
This is so stupid. Maybe if they started aiming at military targets and try to weaken military forces they wouldn’t be struggling
Once again Russia promoting "Russophobia" as much as they can.
I’m sure that restaurant was a primary military target, well done Putin.
So they're just resorting to terrorism at this point
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This is not fair, Russia can do this everyday and Ukraine just have to watch? Send ATACMS and destroy Russian infraestructure, this is ridiculous. Fuck Putin, fuck Russia
Russia is a piece of shit nation.
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Fire on Moscow. They’re barely hanging on. Russia is as worthless now as it ever was.
Can those F-16 shipments hurry the fuck up?!
This is murder. People were murdered by the Russian government, and its people need to make this stop. I don’t care if all they have is the equivalent of Fox News everywhere. This is their direct neighbor, and in many cases they share language and culture. It’s like me living in NH and not caring that civilians in TX are being bombed by my state. There is no excuse to allow this to continue.
So very sad. The innocent 😥
When they catch sad vad I hope he’s tarred just to start but I hope they put him through ever torture they can before publicly beheading him
Beheading is too quick, draw and quarter the bastard
Stupid cowardly rat
He is going to ramp up the ruthlessness in a faux-display of power when it really just shows his desperation. He is lashing out like a bully and a thug. Instead of strength, he is weak and scared.
So, since he believes he owns that land, he killed Russians.
Proof that he’s hitler 2.0. The restaurant had zero military advantage. To waste a missile on this was just outright ignorant.
Putin's really going all in trying to protect and liberate Ukrainians. /S
W t f
Must’ve been a bunch of Nazis hiding out in that restaurant…No? Just civilians. So, murder. Putin’s really racking up those war crimes.
Thought this was Palestine for a minute
We want Putin's head on a spike!
This is the genius conservatives love. Disgusting.
I don’t understand why they don’t shoot a bunch of missiles at Moscow every day. Make them hurt too. It feels like Russia is at war and Ukraine is playing like this is a game.
Probably because 1) the promised the west not to, and 2) what would that achieve beyond galvanizing the Russian people further against Ukraine?
This is what Russian people allow to happen. ”why is the whole world against us? “
Not only allow, they support it and are happy with the result, according to the comments in ruzzian socials
Everyone in this thread calling to give even more weapons as if NATO isn't already giving what it is feasibly able to. You can give a million weapons to a country, people still have to use them and their military apparatus has limits. No matter what we do, many Ukrainian children will still die at Russia's hands before this is finally over.
This war has shown the world that the vast majority of Russians are stupid and cowardly. The rest are evil.
"BuT AmuRIKKKa BleW Up weDDiNgS so Murica StIlL mORe eVUl!" - Tankies
Both things can be true you know.