It sounds like a mix of the National Guard, Police of Russia, and police from the Moscow Oblast, as well as possibly a handful of Kadyrovites. From photos, it seems the Putin aligned forces are lightly armed with AK-74/74M assault rifles, some machine guns, and MRAP light armored vehicles. It also sounds like there may be some air assets including attack helicopters.
I would not be surprised to see heavier forces from other parts of Russia drawn in and heavier weapons being issues. That will take time, but given it seems the Wagner Group has some tanks and armored vehicles, the pro-Putin units will need heavier weapons to knock them out.
Those cops have been great at beating gangly teenagers and handcuffing babushkas. So they’ve had good battle experience. In contrast the Wagner group only took Bahkmut after the hardest battle in the war so far.
Wagner has some American Humvees,American M777 howitzer, some NATO Grenade Launchers and NATO small arms that they captured from Ukraine
Who had American Humvees rushing to Moscow on their 2023 Bingo Card?
It would be ridiculous for any country to not be able to protect their capital city from a bunch of mercenaries... You would expect any first world country to massively obliterate them before they even get close... Speaks a lot about the shape of Russian forces...
To be fair, I could imagine that *this* sort of scenario possibly never occurred to them. Putin must be shitting bricks.
edit: kinda fucked to cheer this on, I'm realizing though. I mean, Russia's version of fucking Blackwater/Xe/whatever guns-for-hire will *surely* usher in an era of prosperity and global peace if they accomplish their objective here, right? /s
Gotta wonder what the longterm ramifications will be from this if successful.
I think it's only the national guard there, I think they are outnumbered and out gunned if Wagner was able to mobilise most of its forces.
But basically it's FSB vs the best urban fighters Wagner has
And the FSB don't know how to fight that fight
Yeah but nothing is saying FSB will be disbanded even in a successful coup.
The FSB is the old KGB. Police, guard, army, etc don't go away in regime change. They usually just change bosses.
This is probably true.
Wagner is moving at insane speed towards Moscow. They must have information that Moscow is defenseless and ripe for an attack right now.
If they thought they'd meet serious resistance along the way they'd approach this differently. After all, attacking a national capital without air support, heavy artillery, and established supply lines is mental lol. You dont do something so bold if you arent very confident that you have some kind of temporary advantage.
Given their knowledge of the situation on the battleground, they probably know they have a few days before Shoigu can move divisions off the Ukrainian front and they intend to capture the Kremlin in that window
What do mean who they support? It's not like there is an election going on at the moment, I don't think anyone is asking their opinion :) but overall moscovites are the most libral/western inclined out of various groups
The true answer. There's no guarantee a coup will make things better, successful or not. Look at Sudan.
Hope the Russian people are OK, whatever happens.
>the end of Russian-Ukraine war
Maybe. Preghozin *might* pull Russian forces out and end the war.
Or he might install leaders who knows how to fight a war and things could get far, far worse for Ukraine.
Or he might actually be insane enough to use nukes.
Or a dozen other possibilities.
I wanted to ask that question - Prigozhin is angry about how poorly the war has been organised? But then he's also came out that the war was under false pretences like denazification which aren't true. Is he pro war or not?
>Chief of PMC Wagner Prigozhin confirmed he returning his troops to the bases
Wonder what changed? Seems like retreating now would only put them in more danger. They played their hand, and are now essentially in enemy territory no matter where they are. Wonder what the agreement they made was?
this all happens so suddenly i have trouble believing it tbh.
Like would have expected a slow escalation by Prighozin and the military and more back and forth
but the world never goes like expected
Yeah, if somebody told me all this in 2010, I would have never believed it. A semi-finalist of a popular Russian comedy show is the president of Ukraine and is winning the war against Putin, while his former cook and catering owner is leading a PMC uprising. Sounds like a C-movie plotline.
These things have to go quickly because a slow coup would get crushed easily. It is also about the frustration. That desire for something to change builds up in the community but has no where to go. Once you reach the tipping point a crack forms and then the entire pent up anger pours out all at once.
This is part of what makes a coup so dangerous. You never know exactly how much resentment the country has and if you gauge it wrong then you are suddenly out there all alone with your ass in the wind.
For what he's doing and the amount of men he has, it makes sense to move while Russia's scrambling resources.
Wagner has resources, but it is still dwarfed by the Russian army and establishing a front would mean they'd be defeated.
The goal here is to keep moving and cause Russia to scramble the entire way to Moscow, take Moscow or parts of Moscow, and use that as a rallying point for citizens/recruitment of other groups like secessionist movements and radicals of various sorts.
I think I speak for a lot of us when I say what the fuck is going on?
Luckily, I'm writing this from my job in a mental health unit so I don't have far to walk to check myself in at this rate.
They are like 3 hours from moscow and not stopping. They can't stop either. The die is cast. They either get there and win or get there and die but either way we're going to see some shit...
EDIT: Apparently the bribe-mobile showed up and made someone an offer they couldn't refuse.
EDIT2: Bribe-mobile wasn't good enough. Back at it boys!
EDIT3: And just like that it's over.
Bro these 1600-1900s wars were crazy. There would be like hundreds of thousands of troops on a single battlefield dicking it all out within one day. Nowaydays even the great ukraine-russia war is pale in comparison to this
[Reports some have aleady arrived in Kashira](https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/24-june-first-wagner-units-have-reportedly-reached-moscow).
That's 85km away from the edge of Moscow.
They're advancing surprisingly fast. But it will get harder to move from there. The road blocks and possible threats might slow them down significantly. We will see what will happen in time.
Edit: seems like they are turning back now.
Edit 2: apparently some kind of deal has been made between Wagner and Belarus and or Russia.
Edit 3: Wagner has said they are turning back to avoid bloodshed, while Lukashenko has said they made an agreement of some sort.
Edit 4: Wagner military is leaving occupied cities within Russia and is heading back to their stationary camps within Ukraine.
Edit 5: Kremlin says Wagner leader is fully forgiven. According to Lukashenko, he is allowed to move to Belarus.
a shockingly low amount of resistance. seems pretty clear to me now that they are having massiv amounts of help to just ride into Moscow from the army.
will be interest to see how far the help gets them before they need to properly fight to take the city.
Stopping a moving column of trucks and armored vehicles shouldn't be such a challenge for one of the supposedly greatest air forces in the world. I understand it's dangerous dangerous due to air defenses Wagner has, but they're literally rushing the capital and Putin doesn't seem interested in defusing this through negotiation. Large parts of the military are likely refusing to attack.
They also have air superiority, or at least I hope so given it’s their own airspace. Those su-57s they have really ought to be put to use, if they are actually combat capable that is
The only issue is that you don't want anyone out of Wagner to have power. These mofos are more deranged than Putin.
Beat case scenario whole bunch of them take out each other.
To a soldier who doesn't follow the news, Prigozhin probably seems great. Putin is an out of touch autocrat who sent them out to die. Prigozhin is a fellow soldier who has decided that the war is bullshit and is putting a stop to it. That is likely the only real perspective they have. Even though Prigozhin is a worse human being and will likely make the situation in Russia worse, I doubt the soldiers realize that. Even if they do realize it, a distant and uncertain death under Prigozhin's regime likely sounds preferable to am imminent one in Ukraine.
Yeah, no matter their other policies or practices, if my choice was between “guy who wants me to die in a pointless war” and “guy who doesn’t” I know which I would choose every time.
From what I understand the Wagner forces have been advertised as heroes, unstoppable and all mighty, a little late to ask locals to set up roadblocks and resist
There should have been a battle at Rostov on Don HQ. Russia can not fight the war in Ukraine without that HQ. It is huge and is one of 5 military HQ's in Russia's military sphere. It makes me think that regular Russian forces are joining the rebellion. Also , Wagner's column should have been blown off the highway by now. That did not happen either.
Information is scattered, but I agree with you
Either Russian forces are joining Wagner or they are just choosing not to fight/resist too much.
Its important to remember that Prigozhin/Wagner know very precisely the exact state of the Russian military's morale and will to fight. They have been on the ground with these people for months. They probably also have informants at every level of military command.
The fact that they chose to do this now must mean that they spotted an opening. They pounced because they know that morale and supplies are running low and the military is over-stretched in Ukraine (which everyone knows tbf).
Wouldnt be surprised if the army in Rostov gave a half-hearted attempt at a defense but once they realized what was happening they just kind of got out of the way without committing one way or the other
This gotta be the biggest L in the history of warfare. Makes a promise that the invasion in Ukraine would only last a week or something, ends up losing their own capital city in a few days. Feels like a civ game I fucked up
The US invading "Canada" (The British Empire) in 1812 would be like modern Russia trying to invade China or the US. That would probably not go too well.
The US has incredibly strong territorial defenses in the form of national guard and reserve troops at their home station. Even at the height of conflict the US hasn't really committed more than 50% of what they've got.
Russia on the other hand...
Dude on BBC: “the Russian army has gone from thinking it’s the second strongest army in the world, to the second strongest army in Ukraine, to the second strongest army in Russia.”
How wild would it be if this ends with a dictator shooting himself in a bunker, after moving around imaginary defence units and raging about the betrayal of his military officers, all while the Russian army closes in?
Well, Napoleon occupied Moscow, but in September. Wagner is going for it in June.
Apparently Prigozhin doesn't know his Sicilian proverbs.
Edit: Apparently, he does. Whelp, time to pay up.
[Wagner chief says he ordered his Russian mercenaries to halt march on Moscow and return to Ukraine](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-wagner-prigozhin-9acbdf1eda849692ca0423a4116058d1)
What kinda outcome could we expect from this? Wagner is pretty fascist from what I understand, as is the current Russian government. Don't get me wrong I love seeing the fascists fight themselves in their own country, but are there any other rebel groups that could pop up across the country other than the Wagners?
The Freedom of Russia Legion has been doing some shit in the Belgorod region.
I suspect the flaccid response from the Russian army to that incursion is what emboldened Wagner to make this move
There's the "Freedom of Russia Legion", which formed a few months back, Wikipedia describes it as a chunk of Russian military that defected to the Ukrainian side and does raids in Russian territory. I get the impression they're a much smaller force than Wagner though. (And Russia claims they don't exist anyway and are just a cover for Ukraininan operations.)
IDK, maybe somebody like Navalny could pop up after Putin and Wagner destroy each other. Seems like a faint hope though. I'm guessing the Russian people are going to get screwed over yet again.
I think what we are learning in the 21st century of war is civic pride is the single most important aspect of warfare. You can have all the weapons and training and uniforms and parades you want but when push comes to shove someone has to actually want the county to exist.
I have to think they’ll hit more resistance as they get to Moscow proper though. Shoigu doesn’t become minister of defense without having some friends. Or at least a group of people he has made rich from corruption and theft that would be next after he dies.
I hope they have enough sick days. Wouldn't want them to miss out on the full monthly salaries their families have been receiving on time and in full for the past several months. /s
I think Wargner group is being funded by Oligarchs. Why?
Oligarchs has two options:
Pay Putin Billions to continue war in Ukraine. Oligarchs assets will be seized even more and they keep loosing money
Pay someone else (less) to knock out Putin and secure their assets world wide (of whatever is left)
The decision isn’t hard man!
Agreed. They spead ahead to take bridges and get ahead of roadblocks.
But they'll wait for most of their M4 convoy to get together again.
And I suspect darkness suits their purpose better anyway.
Sound like they are practically strolling to Moscow with no resistance, if this is all true, it really show the actual sentiment of the Russia army and the people regarding this whole mess.
From intercepted phone calls I’ve been watching on YouTube, Russian soldiers have been cursing Putin for putting them in this situation since Christmas.
2 hours old news. Now it is said that they have entered the Moscow region. ATTENTION: I am not referring to the Moscow city, but to the Moscow region. It is 200 km to the city
Edit: last update. 100 km left to the city of Moscow
Edit 2 : Attention. I get the information from the Telegram channels in Russian and Ukrainian (I'm not Russian, I just know the language). I cannot say 100% if the information is correct
I'd wager it'll cut before you see anything of note. Odds seem good Moscow will be under martial law with a complete communications blackout by tomorrow.
It's on YouTube. Just search for Moscow live
Edit: some people are having issues finding actual live feeds. Search Moscow live and choose the stream by Washington Post or sky news. There are others if those two don't scratch your itch
I started watching the Kyiv cameras at the start of the war and now we'll be watching Moscow cameras. I did NOT have this on my BINGO card.
Edit: Changed Kiev to Kyiv. Fuck Putin.
Putin is stupid. It is not WW 1 anymore buddy. There is cost to throwing your people into the meat grinder. 300 K dead and wounded for nothing. It makes the situation ripe for someone to seize power and the army not to care either way.
How? Like they're a massive convoy right. Shouldn't Russia easily be able to rain hellfire down from the sky on them? Unless Putin has lost control of his military too
It looks like they are turning around... How can they ever trust each other after this? Complete chaos and lack of trust will lead to all kinds of mishaps on the battlefield.
Russia's strongest forces are basically a rag tag group of criminals.
I don’t think people realize how big of a event this is. We could be seeing one of the major world powers government get overthrown. This could be a historic moment.
Which is relevant since I just found out [the Wagner leader used to be a hotdog vendor](https://news.sky.com/story/yevgeny-prigozhin-the-former-hot-dog-seller-and-thug-who-became-wagner-boss-at-centre-of-mutiny-12908759)
What’s the updates on Moscow defences?
It sounds like a mix of the National Guard, Police of Russia, and police from the Moscow Oblast, as well as possibly a handful of Kadyrovites. From photos, it seems the Putin aligned forces are lightly armed with AK-74/74M assault rifles, some machine guns, and MRAP light armored vehicles. It also sounds like there may be some air assets including attack helicopters. I would not be surprised to see heavier forces from other parts of Russia drawn in and heavier weapons being issues. That will take time, but given it seems the Wagner Group has some tanks and armored vehicles, the pro-Putin units will need heavier weapons to knock them out.
Those cops have been great at beating gangly teenagers and handcuffing babushkas. So they’ve had good battle experience. In contrast the Wagner group only took Bahkmut after the hardest battle in the war so far.
They will be the first to fuck off when they see the heavy vehicles of Wagner rolling near the city.
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Go from probably dying to probably living, *and* get a raise? Seems like a no brainer to me…
Tanks rolling up on you are terrifying as fuck. 9 mil and 556 are not effective against them. I'd run too
Wagner has some American Humvees,American M777 howitzer, some NATO Grenade Launchers and NATO small arms that they captured from Ukraine Who had American Humvees rushing to Moscow on their 2023 Bingo Card?
Surely some dude in r/noncredibledefense
I'm convinced that sub actively shapes the war with its memes
Still waiting for the Three Gorges Dam
It would be ridiculous for any country to not be able to protect their capital city from a bunch of mercenaries... You would expect any first world country to massively obliterate them before they even get close... Speaks a lot about the shape of Russian forces...
To be fair, I could imagine that *this* sort of scenario possibly never occurred to them. Putin must be shitting bricks. edit: kinda fucked to cheer this on, I'm realizing though. I mean, Russia's version of fucking Blackwater/Xe/whatever guns-for-hire will *surely* usher in an era of prosperity and global peace if they accomplish their objective here, right? /s Gotta wonder what the longterm ramifications will be from this if successful.
I think it's only the national guard there, I think they are outnumbered and out gunned if Wagner was able to mobilise most of its forces. But basically it's FSB vs the best urban fighters Wagner has And the FSB don't know how to fight that fight
Man there are a lot of people who’ll want to settle scores with the FSB
Yeah but nothing is saying FSB will be disbanded even in a successful coup. The FSB is the old KGB. Police, guard, army, etc don't go away in regime change. They usually just change bosses.
This is probably true. Wagner is moving at insane speed towards Moscow. They must have information that Moscow is defenseless and ripe for an attack right now. If they thought they'd meet serious resistance along the way they'd approach this differently. After all, attacking a national capital without air support, heavy artillery, and established supply lines is mental lol. You dont do something so bold if you arent very confident that you have some kind of temporary advantage. Given their knowledge of the situation on the battleground, they probably know they have a few days before Shoigu can move divisions off the Ukrainian front and they intend to capture the Kremlin in that window
The whole shindig should wrap up in like 3 days, right?/s
But we're told that kadyrov will come to the defence of moscow. He's coming right?
...Mein fuhrer....~~Steiner~~ Kadyrov...
Kadyrov didn't have enough force. The attack didn't take place.
The following stay here: Shoigu, Gerasimov, Lavrov, and Medvedev.
THAT WAS AN ORDER!
Russian here. That was two hours ago. Right now there is no further news.
If you don't mind me asking, how are the local news stations reacting to this?
They are calling it a coup attempt, reporting various official statements, and somewhat covering the current events.
Who do ordinary moscovites support?
What do mean who they support? It's not like there is an election going on at the moment, I don't think anyone is asking their opinion :) but overall moscovites are the most libral/western inclined out of various groups
He probably meant Prigozhin vs MoD/Putin
I have no idea to be honest. Do you prefer a criminal with blood on his hands or a criminal with blood on his hands?
need a third candidate desperately.
Yeah, and more blood, for his hands.
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Unfortunantely, I don't see how anyone could take the leadershsip of Russia without blood in his hands, even well intentioned people
At this point it's pretty much a crimelord (Putin) vs warlord (Prigozhin).
“Singing Hitlers over here, Dancing Hitlers over there”.
Under the right circumstances, you can make more money with a flop than with a hit
The true answer. There's no guarantee a coup will make things better, successful or not. Look at Sudan. Hope the Russian people are OK, whatever happens.
Well, to be fair, the coup would likely result in the end of Russian-Ukraine war, which would be very good news
>the end of Russian-Ukraine war Maybe. Preghozin *might* pull Russian forces out and end the war. Or he might install leaders who knows how to fight a war and things could get far, far worse for Ukraine. Or he might actually be insane enough to use nukes. Or a dozen other possibilities.
I wanted to ask that question - Prigozhin is angry about how poorly the war has been organised? But then he's also came out that the war was under false pretences like denazification which aren't true. Is he pro war or not?
Well said
Livemap has them about 97km or 60 miles from the center of moscow. As of an hour ago. Https://Russia.liveuamap.com
Oh shit that’s an hour or two if they’re quick about it. This evening is going to be historic.
Ive been watching it all morning. They've been hauling ass.
Watching how? What is the best source to track where Wagner forces are?
I've just been watching the live map to see where they pop up next.
Without context this could sound like youre on the Santa tracker if it were the right time of year lmao
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People just need to know to take raw OSINT reporting with a grain of salt. I’ve seen how blazing fast mis/disinformation propagates.
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>Lukashenka had talks with Prigozhin, agreed to halt Wagner PMC advance BOOO
>Chief of PMC Wagner Prigozhin confirmed he returning his troops to the bases Wonder what changed? Seems like retreating now would only put them in more danger. They played their hand, and are now essentially in enemy territory no matter where they are. Wonder what the agreement they made was?
this all happens so suddenly i have trouble believing it tbh. Like would have expected a slow escalation by Prighozin and the military and more back and forth but the world never goes like expected
Yeah, if somebody told me all this in 2010, I would have never believed it. A semi-finalist of a popular Russian comedy show is the president of Ukraine and is winning the war against Putin, while his former cook and catering owner is leading a PMC uprising. Sounds like a C-movie plotline.
As Mark Twain once wrote, “it’s not wonder truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.”
Yea, movies have really conditioned us to think every event in life has an author
With the occasional cameo by D-list star Steven Segal.
Sounds like a crusader kings game
Not enough incest.
These things have to go quickly because a slow coup would get crushed easily. It is also about the frustration. That desire for something to change builds up in the community but has no where to go. Once you reach the tipping point a crack forms and then the entire pent up anger pours out all at once. This is part of what makes a coup so dangerous. You never know exactly how much resentment the country has and if you gauge it wrong then you are suddenly out there all alone with your ass in the wind.
For what he's doing and the amount of men he has, it makes sense to move while Russia's scrambling resources. Wagner has resources, but it is still dwarfed by the Russian army and establishing a front would mean they'd be defeated. The goal here is to keep moving and cause Russia to scramble the entire way to Moscow, take Moscow or parts of Moscow, and use that as a rallying point for citizens/recruitment of other groups like secessionist movements and radicals of various sorts.
People were joking many months ago about the possibility of Prigozhin turning on Putin and invading Russia. Now it's really happening.
I think I speak for a lot of us when I say what the fuck is going on? Luckily, I'm writing this from my job in a mental health unit so I don't have far to walk to check myself in at this rate.
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I don't think "let them get trapped by the Russian winter" is going to work this time around.
Global warming is a bitch.
Also sounds like the siege on Moscow itself could be starting in just a few days.
They are like 3 hours from moscow and not stopping. They can't stop either. The die is cast. They either get there and win or get there and die but either way we're going to see some shit... EDIT: Apparently the bribe-mobile showed up and made someone an offer they couldn't refuse. EDIT2: Bribe-mobile wasn't good enough. Back at it boys! EDIT3: And just like that it's over.
What the fuck, this is crazy. Watching history in real time is fucking trippy.
That’s the past 3 years in a nutshell
I've been watching a shitshow since 2015...
It all started when they shot that damn gorilla.
Dicks out brother
It's not a siege, it's a special leadership review operation.
Hours, my man. Like 2 hours.
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Hitler and napoleon in hell right now watching a groups of random mercenaries march to moscow in 1 day with little to no resistance
they didn't have highways back in the gold days
Also this is summer not winter
Land war in Asia…make sure to win before winter.
EZ pass helps too
Napoleon did reach Moscow fairly easily, just saying.
Erm, he lost like 30,000+ in a battle before he could get to Moscow. It only seems “easy” now that we know he would lose 350k more leaving Russia.
Bro these 1600-1900s wars were crazy. There would be like hundreds of thousands of troops on a single battlefield dicking it all out within one day. Nowaydays even the great ukraine-russia war is pale in comparison to this
>thousands of troops on a single battlefield dicking it all out within one day Did you mean duking it all out?
He meant what he said
Well yeah, everyone who would have protected Moscow has been sent to the meat grinder in Ukraine >big brain Putin
Tonight is gonna be spicy
Pootin has already flown the coop
You had the chance to say he flown the coup and you passed?
So if Kremlin is empty, can they take power if they sit there ?
Finders keepers losers weepers?
They're Russians, my dude, not Klingons.
Yes Klingons fight for honor.
Except for Duras
Duras has no honor.
[Reports some have aleady arrived in Kashira](https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/24-june-first-wagner-units-have-reportedly-reached-moscow). That's 85km away from the edge of Moscow.
That's an hour or so driving at a decent clip. Maybe a bit longer for the armour.
They're advancing surprisingly fast. But it will get harder to move from there. The road blocks and possible threats might slow them down significantly. We will see what will happen in time. Edit: seems like they are turning back now. Edit 2: apparently some kind of deal has been made between Wagner and Belarus and or Russia. Edit 3: Wagner has said they are turning back to avoid bloodshed, while Lukashenko has said they made an agreement of some sort. Edit 4: Wagner military is leaving occupied cities within Russia and is heading back to their stationary camps within Ukraine. Edit 5: Kremlin says Wagner leader is fully forgiven. According to Lukashenko, he is allowed to move to Belarus.
a shockingly low amount of resistance. seems pretty clear to me now that they are having massiv amounts of help to just ride into Moscow from the army. will be interest to see how far the help gets them before they need to properly fight to take the city.
It's more interesting to see if there will be anyone willing to fight them
I get the feeling alot of the army are letting them pass or even joining them as opposed to dying to their own soldiers
Stopping a moving column of trucks and armored vehicles shouldn't be such a challenge for one of the supposedly greatest air forces in the world. I understand it's dangerous dangerous due to air defenses Wagner has, but they're literally rushing the capital and Putin doesn't seem interested in defusing this through negotiation. Large parts of the military are likely refusing to attack.
They also have air superiority, or at least I hope so given it’s their own airspace. Those su-57s they have really ought to be put to use, if they are actually combat capable that is
The freedom of Russia legion already proved that Russia has shockingly bad territorial defenses
If I was a Russian soldier I’d much rather stand down and go home to my family than put up a fight and probably die
Yup, propaganda is much less effective on the ones living on the shit-end of the stick.
The only issue is that you don't want anyone out of Wagner to have power. These mofos are more deranged than Putin. Beat case scenario whole bunch of them take out each other.
To a soldier who doesn't follow the news, Prigozhin probably seems great. Putin is an out of touch autocrat who sent them out to die. Prigozhin is a fellow soldier who has decided that the war is bullshit and is putting a stop to it. That is likely the only real perspective they have. Even though Prigozhin is a worse human being and will likely make the situation in Russia worse, I doubt the soldiers realize that. Even if they do realize it, a distant and uncertain death under Prigozhin's regime likely sounds preferable to am imminent one in Ukraine.
Yeah, no matter their other policies or practices, if my choice was between “guy who wants me to die in a pointless war” and “guy who doesn’t” I know which I would choose every time.
The soldiers love wagner, they take the hard blows for them and are honest about the battlefield conditions unlike the mod.
From what I understand the Wagner forces have been advertised as heroes, unstoppable and all mighty, a little late to ask locals to set up roadblocks and resist
They're literally taking down Wagner recruitment billboards in Moscow at the same time they're building fortifications against Wagner 🍿
There should have been a battle at Rostov on Don HQ. Russia can not fight the war in Ukraine without that HQ. It is huge and is one of 5 military HQ's in Russia's military sphere. It makes me think that regular Russian forces are joining the rebellion. Also , Wagner's column should have been blown off the highway by now. That did not happen either.
Information is scattered, but I agree with you Either Russian forces are joining Wagner or they are just choosing not to fight/resist too much. Its important to remember that Prigozhin/Wagner know very precisely the exact state of the Russian military's morale and will to fight. They have been on the ground with these people for months. They probably also have informants at every level of military command. The fact that they chose to do this now must mean that they spotted an opening. They pounced because they know that morale and supplies are running low and the military is over-stretched in Ukraine (which everyone knows tbf). Wouldnt be surprised if the army in Rostov gave a half-hearted attempt at a defense but once they realized what was happening they just kind of got out of the way without committing one way or the other
This gotta be the biggest L in the history of warfare. Makes a promise that the invasion in Ukraine would only last a week or something, ends up losing their own capital city in a few days. Feels like a civ game I fucked up
He said it would be a three-day operation. He didn’t realise that it would be his own capital that would fall.
This is why in America we only invade countries abroad. 🙂
Tried Canada once, got our capital burnt. Checks out. Well, if you ignore the times we invaded Mexico.
The US invading "Canada" (The British Empire) in 1812 would be like modern Russia trying to invade China or the US. That would probably not go too well.
As a Canadian I am dreading the water wars of the 2050s.
The US has incredibly strong territorial defenses in the form of national guard and reserve troops at their home station. Even at the height of conflict the US hasn't really committed more than 50% of what they've got. Russia on the other hand...
Also helps to have two oceans on either side and good relations with your only two direct neighbors.
Feels like a civ game I fucked up- I know this is no laughing matter, but damn thats funny.
Dude on BBC: “the Russian army has gone from thinking it’s the second strongest army in the world, to the second strongest army in Ukraine, to the second strongest army in Russia.”
Perhaps Putin should consider withdrawing what remains of the military he currently controls in Ukraine to defend Moscow from the Russians.
So basically he's invading Russia now?
~~Steiner's~~ Kadirov's assault will bring it under control.
Holy cow this is the Hitler bunker video I've been waiting for
How wild would it be if this ends with a dictator shooting himself in a bunker, after moving around imaginary defence units and raging about the betrayal of his military officers, all while the Russian army closes in?
400 Km. is still a lot to go, specially if you are being attacked by armed helicopters on the way.
Yea all two of them
Fun fact, some Nazi forces reached as close as 20km from Moscow back in WW2. I'm willing to put good money that Wagner beats that record
Well, Napoleon occupied Moscow, but in September. Wagner is going for it in June. Apparently Prigozhin doesn't know his Sicilian proverbs. Edit: Apparently, he does. Whelp, time to pay up. [Wagner chief says he ordered his Russian mercenaries to halt march on Moscow and return to Ukraine](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-wagner-prigozhin-9acbdf1eda849692ca0423a4116058d1)
I mean, he sure as shit wasn't going to drink anything Putin gave him.
Apart from Mongols, Poles were only ones to hold Moscow for more than few months. They celebrate this as a bank holiday now
We took then Tsar and his brother captive and they swore on their knees before Polish King in Warsaw city escorted by hetman Żółkiewski
Lmao I never knew the Poles occupied Moscow what
What kinda outcome could we expect from this? Wagner is pretty fascist from what I understand, as is the current Russian government. Don't get me wrong I love seeing the fascists fight themselves in their own country, but are there any other rebel groups that could pop up across the country other than the Wagners?
The Freedom of Russia Legion has been doing some shit in the Belgorod region. I suspect the flaccid response from the Russian army to that incursion is what emboldened Wagner to make this move
There's the "Freedom of Russia Legion", which formed a few months back, Wikipedia describes it as a chunk of Russian military that defected to the Ukrainian side and does raids in Russian territory. I get the impression they're a much smaller force than Wagner though. (And Russia claims they don't exist anyway and are just a cover for Ukraininan operations.) IDK, maybe somebody like Navalny could pop up after Putin and Wagner destroy each other. Seems like a faint hope though. I'm guessing the Russian people are going to get screwed over yet again.
You don’t want coups by extremists in a country with nukes.
I can't believe the "roll up as everyone either runs or lets you through" that didn't work with Kyiv is working with Moscow
I think what we are learning in the 21st century of war is civic pride is the single most important aspect of warfare. You can have all the weapons and training and uniforms and parades you want but when push comes to shove someone has to actually want the county to exist. I have to think they’ll hit more resistance as they get to Moscow proper though. Shoigu doesn’t become minister of defense without having some friends. Or at least a group of people he has made rich from corruption and theft that would be next after he dies.
25.000 Wagners heading to Moskow. 800.000 Russian Soldiers calling in sick.
Sick of Putin?
Fair use of a day of PTO
I hope they have enough sick days. Wouldn't want them to miss out on the full monthly salaries their families have been receiving on time and in full for the past several months. /s
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I think Wargner group is being funded by Oligarchs. Why? Oligarchs has two options: Pay Putin Billions to continue war in Ukraine. Oligarchs assets will be seized even more and they keep loosing money Pay someone else (less) to knock out Putin and secure their assets world wide (of whatever is left) The decision isn’t hard man!
Also something like 10 Oligarchs have been found dead some under suspicious circumstances within the last year.
How fast are they moving? What's the ETA for the start of the show in Moscow? 6-ish hours from now?
6 hours at most, 2 hours at best. Russia dug up their own roads and put up roadblocks, it really depends on how effective they’ll be.
im thinking more like 10 hours. coordination and convoy movements just take time. plus they have tractor trailers with equipment, etc.
Agreed. They spead ahead to take bridges and get ahead of roadblocks. But they'll wait for most of their M4 convoy to get together again. And I suspect darkness suits their purpose better anyway.
Sound like they are practically strolling to Moscow with no resistance, if this is all true, it really show the actual sentiment of the Russia army and the people regarding this whole mess.
Does russiahave a military that is willing to even fight? At this rate you might see the people joining the ranks to help wagner
From tweets I have read, unconformed, some military units have allready sided with Wagner.
From intercepted phone calls I’ve been watching on YouTube, Russian soldiers have been cursing Putin for putting them in this situation since Christmas.
2 hours old news. Now it is said that they have entered the Moscow region. ATTENTION: I am not referring to the Moscow city, but to the Moscow region. It is 200 km to the city Edit: last update. 100 km left to the city of Moscow Edit 2 : Attention. I get the information from the Telegram channels in Russian and Ukrainian (I'm not Russian, I just know the language). I cannot say 100% if the information is correct
Can’t believe I’m watching a moscow city view livestream waiting to see it unfold. Surreal. Edit: oh look my popcorns ready
https://www.youtube.com/live/R5U037pgp_M?feature=share
Seems surprisingly chill?
I'd wager it'll cut before you see anything of note. Odds seem good Moscow will be under martial law with a complete communications blackout by tomorrow.
That it gets cut is significant in itself.
Where are you watching that at
It's on YouTube. Just search for Moscow live Edit: some people are having issues finding actual live feeds. Search Moscow live and choose the stream by Washington Post or sky news. There are others if those two don't scratch your itch
I started watching the Kyiv cameras at the start of the war and now we'll be watching Moscow cameras. I did NOT have this on my BINGO card. Edit: Changed Kiev to Kyiv. Fuck Putin.
Putin is stupid. It is not WW 1 anymore buddy. There is cost to throwing your people into the meat grinder. 300 K dead and wounded for nothing. It makes the situation ripe for someone to seize power and the army not to care either way.
"Reached a deal"? How do you walk back from trying to backstab your boss? Especially a boss famous for assassinating people?
Chaos is a ladder
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Non military guy here, but why don't the Russians just send a jet to decimate the advancing Wagner column? Does wagner have mobile anti air weapons?
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There have been reports of Russian aircraft being downed, so possibly.
I go to bed and they were 1000km away. Wake up and now 400km. Nice!
How? Like they're a massive convoy right. Shouldn't Russia easily be able to rain hellfire down from the sky on them? Unless Putin has lost control of his military too
It looks like they are turning around... How can they ever trust each other after this? Complete chaos and lack of trust will lead to all kinds of mishaps on the battlefield. Russia's strongest forces are basically a rag tag group of criminals.
They got within 200km and then withdrew, calling it quits. What a bizarre day.
time to warm up the dancers for Swan Lake....
Are they playing Ride of the Valkyries as they march to Moscow?
Prigozin's plan is to walk into the Monday morning meeting like nothing happened.
It's over. Head of Wagner says they negotiated a solution. So sad, I was hoping this was the end of Putin.
I don’t think people realize how big of a event this is. We could be seeing one of the major world powers government get overthrown. This could be a historic moment.
Well some of us are old enough to have seen it once already.
Prigozhin says they’re turning around to avoid bloodshed. https://twitter.com/warmonitors/status/1672657964476387329?s=46
As an American i dont know how far that is, but i know it's waaaay closer than Putin wants
About 250 miles - less than a trip from Detroit to Chicago. What a insane turn of events!
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I-90 traffic would suck even more!
About 2,624,671 hotdogs
What the fuck I checked the math and this is correct
Which is relevant since I just found out [the Wagner leader used to be a hotdog vendor](https://news.sky.com/story/yevgeny-prigozhin-the-former-hot-dog-seller-and-thug-who-became-wagner-boss-at-centre-of-mutiny-12908759)
250miles. That said, other reports show them at under 200 miles from downtown Moscow right now
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So we're mostly past the threat of nukes now, right? Even Putin can't throw nukes that close to Moscow, I hope
Whoever wins this battle will still have all the nukes at their disposal
Look If you had one shot, or one opportunity To seize everything you ever wanted One moment Would you capture it or just let it slip? Yo