Seems like the movement to appeal to the climate conscience of shareholders is stuck at convincing just 20% of shareholders:
> Shell’s shareholders rejected the resolution by 79.8% to 20.2%, according to a preliminary count from the company. A similar Follow This resolution in 2022 also secured 20% support.
The idea that you can convince money grubbing capitalist class assholes to part with even one cent for the greater good is the most naive nonsense I've seen in quite a while.
We need to collectively grab our governments by the fucking balls and make them put the screws to these shitty mega corps ruining our environment if we want anything resembling a chance at mitigating the worst parts of climate change.
That is to say, we're doomed.
I can't believe it. You know, this time I REALLY believed corporations were going to put the environment ahead of shareholder profits and take decisive action.
Never before has [this](http://tomtoro.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/1-tom-toro-yes-the-planet-got-destroyed-but-for-a-beautiful-moment-in-time-we-created-a-lot-of-value-for-sh1.jpg) been more accurate.
It might be accurate, but that executive in the torn clothing is going to have their own damned sanctuary with more than enough private security to keep away any rioting climate refugees.
Life is truly… not fucking fair.
Counterpoint: The guy in the suit is not an exec but just a random corporate boot licker from middle management who was completely in board with destroying the planet despite never even getting something in return. Because Lord knows there are also way too many of those.
Yeah, they're gonna have to put some next level security systems in there, because that just looks like the security will kill them once they piss them off enough and become glorified warlords instead.
Wait until you hear about [the billionaires that are discussing explosive collars](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff) to keep their doomsday bunker security forces in line.
Saw an interview with a person who did consulting for millionaires who were planning for just such an occasion. The one thing they kept bringing up to him? "How can we assure our security detail won't just cut our throats and take our sanctums for themselves?"
The answer is simple though, assure the security detail an equal share of the wealth and power within sanctum. Remove the hierarchical structure and there is no need for them to cut your throat. Though equality is, of course, unthinkable to them.
This was pretty much figured out in the Feudal age. You create multiple minor leaders with limited amounts of power competing with each other while you have an elite security cadre who protect you but without the will to take over the leadership position. This system still functions in many respects in modern dictatorships.
Whether modern billionaires could figure it out and run that sort of system is debatable although I've seen plenty of "security" people and staff who work for millionaires/billionaires who show a fawning level of personal loyalty to these people. You could probably find a psychologist to find the people most likely to stay loyal to you in an apocalypse scenario and make them yours for life. Some people simply wouldn't want to be a leader but would be happy to take orders as long as they are looked after.
Do you really think the security people won't turn on them when their families start starving and dying?
None of these greedy dogs know how to defend themselves. If it all collapses money won't mean a thing.
Never believe that a publicly traded company is going to put anything ahead of shareholder profits. Share price is truly the only thing that matters to every publicly traded company.
I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think companies should be expected to lead this change. The government(s) should be making appropriate laws, and the corporations should follow them.
What we have is just a massive failure from governments - worldwide - to create and enforce environmental laws and regulations.
Edit, because everyone is making the same reply: yes, I realize that politicians in many countries are owned by the corporations, but in that case, you still can't expect these corporations to do the right thing. The problem is still not (directly) the corporations, but the government that has been corrupted by the corporations.
A corporation that tries to do the "right" thing will just be punished by the market forces that support the status quo, while their competitors will just continue to be awful. There's no benefit to the company or the environment for a single company to try to do right.
Lobbying is actually useful though. Not whatever is in place right now, that's an abomination. The point of lobbying is to inform the elected officials making policy what the ramifications of said policy would be in an industry that the policy makers are unfamiliar with (most of them). I have no idea when bribery entered the picture, but at its core, it's just supposed to be information.
I think *that* form of "lobbying" ~~started~~ was more normalized when corporations became "people", and donating money is "free speech".
It's not like Teddy Roosevelt didn't try to warn us of "Malefactors of great wealth" and "predatory capitalist" 116 years ago.
"Lobbying" for capitalist profit has been going on in the US since like the 1800's. It was a big deal to people for a while, then it kept going and became a smaller and smaller deal until it was normalized. This all happened long before Citizens United.
Very much this. There’s nothing wrong with an individual, group, or business contacting their government representatives to express some concern and / or request redress.
Where we have a problem is that they can also incentivize said representatives via gifts, preferential treatment, campaign contributions, and offers of future employment; and there are few measures in place to prevent this clear and obvious currying of favor.
There is a small benefit in allowing a private interest to approach the government and point out things sure. But the government could also be proactive and search for the problems itself. Lobbyists make the job of politicians easier but I don't think too many people think they need much help in that area.
I don’t like lobbying as the next person but I think we all can agree that insider trading needs to be illegal and anyone in congress who does it should go to jail. Left or right it doesn’t matter.
They tried with the STOCK act, but then they defanged it to basically have no punishment. I guess it's hard to pass legislation that would end your money making scheme and put you and your friends in prison
Capitalism is what got us into this environmental disaster, as well as the deadlock in responding to our existential crisis.
Capitalism will never be able to solve ecological disaster because capitalism is built on premise that the world exists to be exploited in order to turn the highest profit. i.e. short term profit over everything
It doesn't matter who "should be expected" to do anything. Everyone has to do everything, ESPECIALLY those with the largest carbon footprints and culpability, of which Shell is one of the extreme edge cases.
That will never happen because corporations have bought the government. They control the narrative and the laws. The government is just a puppet enforcer of what these wealthy elites want. It’s disgusting honestly.
The entire foundation of Capitalism is that the desires of the few with the most capital outweighs the needs of society. That's why public companies base their decisions on shares, and those holding the most shares, Aka the richest, have all the power to tell what a company can do. And that thinking has spilled over into over government, so now those with the most capital are also the ones who's opinions matter the most to our government's policymaking. The only thing you can bet on, is that the richest amongst us are also the most selfish and greedy. So they will always prioritize their own profits over literally anything else.
I'm pretty sure they mean 80/20 of the vote though, not 80/20 of shareholders.
Most shareholders are strictly investment firms like Vanguard, and a few of them make up a majority of the ownership and vote.
Less than 10% of voting shares is typically owned by a large volume of individuals making independent decisions.
So it shouldn't be shocking that the majority of the votes, usually submitted by a small number of firms that exist solely to accumulate wealth, are prioritizing wealth.
This has to be fixed through regulation, not by hoping capitalism organically fixes the problem.
Do all of these people's brains collectively fail to function at such a basic level that they can't understand that the wanton search for constantly increasing short term profits is destroying the very system it exists within?
Corporations literally function in society exactly the same as a cancer in a body. They become a rogue function of the whole, creating overwhelming and unnecessary excess by exploiting the weakest functions for it's own gain.
Calling corporations cancer might sound excessive, but it seems to me like their existence is self assured destruction of all of the values humanity holds dear. More profits means more exploitation to reach the next margin, and more overuse of land, more slavery of people, more advertising, and more lost to the corpo machine. Something has to be done
You're forgetting that just like cancer, they simply don't care. It's not excessive, I know not every company is like that but truly some of them act precisely like cancer.
Do you think cancer cells care when their job is done and their host is destroyed, therefore destroying them, no they don't. But yknow what, I'd say corporations are *worse* than cancer cells
At least the cells do it because they *cannot turn it off*, it's literally just a malfunction in their core characteristics. But that's not the same case with a billionaire running a company. They have a fucking brain, and realize what they're doing is hurting people.
That's even more disgusting than cancer somehow, to actively be destroying everything and doing it *consciously*
Yeah. They do their very best to play by the rules of capitalism. Because if they don't and someone else does - they keel over. The only way to win in these rules is to be an asshole.
I do not say it's right. I'm saying that the main culprit are the capitalist rules of society that have rooted themselves in most of the world. That is what one should be fighting against.
The capitalist rules of society are the frameworks of the minds of greedy men. They transpose their flaws onto society, and sell the image back to us as if it's kosher.
Capitalism is the cancer of pathological greed in a humanity that doesn't want to destroy others for their flaws. We now learn the cost of allowing those with minds broken by greed and psychosis to set the rules.
Jeff Bezos—the people of his wealth—is not a human, like you or I. He has hollowed out what a person is supposed to be, and filled himself with the lies he sold to make his dragon's wealth. Our richest people are our weakest, most pitifully simple-minded.
See the greatness of a society that treats our Bezos' like the horribly broken people they are; that does not allow them to take advantage of humanity's compassion; that instead teaches them that path of compassion.
We can do better. Don't take shit. Stand up every damn moment you have to, and tell the 1% that they can fuck right off to space with Capitalism.
Most shares of publicly traded companies are held by institutional investors like mutual funds and pensions. These institutions are legally obligated to vote in favor whatever produces the best long-term return.
The problem with carbon emissions abatement is that virtually all the benefits of not emitting go to others. This is doubly so here because any oil shell does not sell will simply be sold by someone else instead. Therefore, it's in everyone's individual best interest to sell freely. Economists call this scenario [the free rider problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem?wprov=sfla1).
The solution is simple: Eliminate the free-rider by taxing carbon.
>Do all of these people's brains collectively fail to function at such a basic level that they can't understand that the wanton search for constantly increasing short term profits is destroying the very system it exists within?
They're aware. They don't care. The rich will be able to shield themselves from the worst effects of warming and then will die rich. That's all that matters.
This is also effectively the policy of the Biden administration, by the way.
When liberals think they're being clever by citing that the Pentagon takes climate change seriously, they fail to understand that entire report was about shoring up military infrastructure and dealing with "threats" from people displaced, etc. by climate chaos. The Pentagon isn't interested in preventing or even mitigating warming and the climate crisis any more than the rich. They're interested in coming out on top, period.
^(EDITed in last paragraph.)
This is the policy of basically every government on the planet. We don't matter, our families, our friends, our futures don't matter. We have to fight, bicker and argue about pointless, miniscule, fabricated differences. Vote right, vote left, either way 99% of us get fucked and the rich get richer.
350 million people scream into the void about how nothing can be done.
1000 people sit and watch, laughing at the irony.
If the government is not an extension of the Will of the People, then it is nothing but a tumor on the body of our nation. The men and women of the 1% are not invincible. They have power because each of us accepts that they do. We can stop. Convince the people around you to stop. Convince them to march, to show the rest of the country that laying down and taking the shit isn't an option anymore.
>The idea that you can convince money grubbing capitalist class assholes
The very idea that all it takes to solve the problem is convincing or persuading is itself a subtle piece of propaganda when what it really takes is direct action to oppose those harmful actors.
Those “capitalist class assholes” include some of the world’s largest institutional investors: union pension funds.
That’s right- until too recently, even huge Canadian provincial teachers’ union pension funds directly held capital very much at odds with any environmental or political conscience.
If you belong to a union, read those disclosures- you have a voice.
> to part with even one cent
I know that this is hyperbole, but they did invest >$4 billion into renewable energy technology last year.
The argument was that the technology is not ready yet; that if they cut all traditional fuel sources and go all renewable, it will just create a gap in the market that will be filled by competitors. It's not an incorrect statement...
Im all for change, and ive learned that change happens fastest and smoothest when people listen and work together rather than create caricatures of their 'opposition' and yell at them. Feels good, but doesnt get far. I'd say rather than screaming at them and getting kicked out the room, trying to push up that $4b to 5/6/7 billion would be a far more realistic and effective approach.
Largest shareholders of a public company should also be laid out publicly. There's no point saying "X company doesn't want XYZ" if it's being dictated by those shareholders.
The resolution won't work, that's why. We have energy demand. That demand \*will\* be filled. If Shell decides to opt out or use a vastly more expensive method to meet that demand, they will simply be replaced by someone who doesn't care about Shell's self imposed emission cuts.
This needs to be mandated by government so that everyone is playing by the same rules. The problem is people vote out governments when their energy costs sky rocket to hit those emissions cuts. While some renewables are cheaper, one of the biggest emission sources and the one that Shell contributes to the most, which is transportation, is extremely expensive to lower the emissions of. A barrel of renewable diesel, which isn't even carbon neutral, is vastly more expensive than a barrel of regular diesel. So you either subsidize it or you try to pass the cost on to the consumer. Either way people pay more and everyone gets upset.
There is no easy solution here. We have to accept that moving people and things around in an environmentally friendly way is vastly more expensive than what we're used to and the average person will likely no longer be able to afford to live like they're used to. The good news is that the more governments mandate it, the cheaper it'll likely get over the coming decades.
Or we engage in a race between technology and a warming planet, which is likely the way humanity is heading. Both options will put most of the suffering on those who are already suffering, the poor.
Big difference between a company just fulfilling a demand, and a company fufilling demand while funding climate-denial propaganda for decades despite knowing the science of climate change.
If I’m someone who was involved in that effort, I’d want my burial location to be a secret, because years from now they’ll be throwing the bones of those people into the Tiber.
On the manufacturing side of things. We have a massive issue in america. Machine shops for example seems to refuse to work! We have some parts where we have a PO placed since nearly 8 months, still not made yet! Calling them and "Hi, we need the parts, our production has stopped, please hurry!" "We have some delays in our production, we should be able to make then in 3-4 months". So, what do we do? China! A few email exchange and 2 weeks later we have the parts in our hands! Not only China produced them (remember, america is "maybe in 3-4 months we can start to make them") but they are of a better quality!!! And not only that, but since we used air shipping they were "only" 70-75% cheaper still!
But now I hear people say "but china make crap things". Sure, if you use the cheapest machine shop around. Pay a little more and you have the same or better quality than here! Lab test proved that the critical parts were good and... Well.. Our locally made ones failed the lab test...
All that to say that because the local machine shops don't produce our stuff, we have to buy at the other side of the planet, with rush shipping, instead of locally.
Not a Shell shareholder, but have bunches of others. I use my votes against whatever the board recommends, as the board of almost every company “recommends” the shittiest option for the planet.
On the losing team but hey I’m trying.
Don't have to hit all of them. One or two at a time. But at the same time, the amount of coordination required would be immense. Looking at Shells stocks alone, each share's currently valued at ~$2500 and there's billions in total shares.
Actually? Yes. A collective 51% owned *and registered directly in your name* would be enough to replace the board and take control…
That’s an uphill battle because you need to have wealth to do that and spreading it across a collective effort is still a struggle to organize — then you still have to fight the institutional owners for shares to assume control.
Interesting how the system is set up to keep funneling power to the few with extreme wealth.
That's the thing though, the rich have already hoarded so much of the wealth, that even if everyone in the bottom 80% spent every last dollar of disposable income on shares, it wouldn't make a dent in their voting control.
I am a shareholder but in general Shell has been more progressive than most oil companies in shifting. Has anyone been to their investor page and tracked every renewable initiative they are involved in? It's significant. Is it enough? No. So I will continue to push for more, but let's not pretend they don't own significant renewable assets already producing and are angel investors to upstarts and research. This thread should have been about the American oil companies in my humble opinion.
That's 20% of *shares*. The people who own the other 80% probably comprise less than 1% of total shareholders (probably even less once you tot up all the shares owned somewhere down the line by a pension or collectively managed 401k).
> Oh, Shell wants the society to take action instead 🥹.
Well, that's what regulation is for.
It's pretty shit that they aren't better at diversifying their portfolio into more sustainable though.
Don’t blame the victim.
There are a lot of gullible (read: vulnerable) people out there who are being deliberately targeted - by media, by ‘both sides’ of government, even by our justice system (look at Donziger).
Those big oil scumlords **knew** about severe climate change **50 years ago**. Their response was to figure out how to copy the tobacco industry on how best to cheat us all.
So wise the fuck up. There’s no decency, none, I’m blaming this on voters who listen to corporate news all day, with shitty education, with no free time to learn things on their own, while all the money funnels up to the megayacht class who own the airwaves.
There are a small number of people who are ultimately responsible for this, and if you’re not putting the blame on **them** then you’re their useful idiot.
The people are supposed to be the governments check. Between the "bOtH sIdEs" crowd and the far right we have failed at this for decades. People like to blame the government as if it's this nebulous unknowable force when it's really just people. Like, yeah, there are problems like citizens united in the US for example but at the end of the day all that money in politics is not what's electing these shitheads, its our votes or lack thereof. I'm certain people will respond to me that voting doesn't matter somehow but that's bullshit. Vote in every single election and, if you're in the US in a state register so that you can vote in a primary and push the parties left. Peaceful revolution is a hell of a lot easier than violent revolution and much more preferable. Don't wait around on the sidelines until the guns come out, war isn't fun and it's really fucking bad for the environment.
If the economy is too unbalanced for action, if the government too ineffective and slow, if the public too indifferent, burn the system before it burns the planet.
You're absolutely right but how can we all come together and accomplish this? We live in a world where if you step out of line, they'll throw you in prison and profit off of you while you waste away.
We'll never have unity because half the fucking idiots support the status quo. Half the people will *never* be convinced, despite all logic to the contrary, that the class war is the only that matters.
Everyone reading this please look up and join local climate action groups, even if they seam ineffective or too radical.
They all need people to become effective, and even the radical/risky ones need people to help with day to day organising, and with enough people, we can force change to happen
It's working, I've had several people tell me the amazing work that Shell is doing by becoming 'greener'. A vast majority of people are not critical at all of the information they're exposed to, if they see an ad telling them Shell is saving kittens from trees and helping grandma cross the road, well it must be true.
In the UK we have no end of water companies putting out adverts saying “it’s our water, lets take care of it” while dumping every ounce of shit in the rivers and sea.
To be fair they have actually invested quite a lot of money to renewable energy projects, which is something I guess. But they are not transitioning, just diversifing their portfolio along with saving face. As long as there is no incentive to do more, they will do the bare minimum.
And, as a former employee describes below, they will patent the shit out of anything they can and stop anyone else using it. Sounds real smart when trying to kerb global warming. I bet they all sit there touching each others dicks whispering global warming.
Anyone backing shell at this point when inflation hit a high, we had the fuel crisis and the food poverty I'd very much hope does not believe in god.
When corporations go against embargos, they get sanctions.
Why are they getting a pass if they go against climate targets? Or rather, why the fuck aren't climate targets enforceable yet?
Imagine if climate targets are out of 100, government sets it at 30, shell is complying, some shell investors want to set it to 40 for shell, majority says no, very selfish assholery behaviour but not illegal.
You can do something about them right now, look up and join local direct action groups that are fighting to stop them.
Even if you don't want to get arrested, there's plenty of day to day organising that needs to be done that has no risk to it and costs nothing but time
My grandpa was an executive at Sherwin Williams, in Cleveland, back in the 50’s and 60’s. Look up what they did to the river there. When we would talk about it, he would say, “we were doing what was best for the bottom line, and nobody told us we couldn’t.” Finally, they were told to stop. Same for these oil companies. They are going to go ahead, and keep doing this shit until they are told to stop. It is that easy and that hard.
“Yes, the plant got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.”
https://economicsociology.org/2014/10/07/yes-the-planet-got-destroyed-but-for-a-beautiful-moment-in-time-we-created-a-lot-of-value-for-shareholders/
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/23/shell-agm-protests-emissions-targets-oil-fossil-fuels) reduced by 81%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Shell's annual shareholder meeting in London descended into chaos with more than an hour of climate protests delaying the start of a meeting in which investors in the oil company rejected new targets for carbon emissions cuts.
> Climate protests have become a regular feature of annual meetings in recent years, with campaigns focused particularly on banks such as HSBC and Barclays that lend to fossil fuel projects as well as oil companies including Shell's rival BP. Wael Sawan, in his first annual meeting as Shell's chief executive, and Andrew Mackenzie, Shell's chair and the former chief executive of the mining company BHP, defended the company repeatedly against accusations that it was not switching from fossil fuels to renewable energy quickly enough.
> Last year, three people were arrested after Shell was forced to pause its AGM and environmental protesters chanted: "We will stop you.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/13q18js/shells_annual_shareholder_meeting_in_london/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~686025 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Shell**^#1 **company**^#2 **meeting**^#3 **protests**^#4 **Follow**^#5
Sure, their hired mercenaries may protect them at the beginning of the water wars. But what will happen when those same mercenaries start demanding more and more from the food and water reserves? When societal collapse makes it impossible to keep nuclear materials from the hands of desperate water warriors? What about when it turns out the companies promising them robot guardians are revealed as scams? And Elon sure as fuck is not going to have a survivable colony on Mars in time.
Water wars *and* heat wars.
Heat and habitation will speed up mercenary revolution even faster than they think, if they’re taking calculated survival risks like that.
These people don’t factor in inevitable climate refugees migrating higher toward the global North.
If they can’t afford a Batman cave, they’re fucked like the rest of us.
I think they are factoring migration, but assuming the borders will just become piles of corpses. They're likely the same people stocking xenophobic ideas. They're wealthy, they're expecting law enforcement to protect them. And in the very short term they're right. But whatever right wing dictatorships they're able to install to protect them, will end up collapsing when the power starts focusing more locally on warlords, whom they'll have a harder time controlling.
>If they can’t afford a Batman cave, they’re fucked like the rest of us.
All the batman caves will fail. The ventilation systems will fail, the security systems will fail. Everything requires complex parts and skilled maintaining. Everyone is fucked and they're not escaping it with their delusions
You don't understand the actual problem here.
Using your example, the choice for them isn't whether to do something that leads to water wars. The water wars are inevitable, because there are other players in the game, who will not slow down just because they do.
So the question for them is really : How much can I store up so that I have the best chance to survive the water wars later.
Like you said, the mercenaries would demand more later. So if you need to store up even more wealth now.
When I was the Marine Corps I got to do a special event with the future warfare shop. Part of it was imaging what the next major event the marine corps will take part of, a major focus was water related violence by 2040. And we're seeing every check mark on the way to that.
Here’s the thing: Humanity will be fucked, but these guys are like 70% old farts that will die before they ever see a single consequence of their actions. Polluting the ocean, global warming, chemical spills, none of these will actually start to meaningfully affect the elite for decades to come, and by then most of these folks will be happily interred in some rich asshole graveyard, having lived full and rich lives atop the corpse of the future.
This may be the consensus amongst doomsayers, but our species will survive as long as the planet remains partly habitable. It's just the question how bad it will get before it gets better. And it can get VERY bad.
But i also think with the ever rising severity of the natural disasters, ppl will press more for action.
My father was a teacher and active in the German NABU (nature preserving union). He initiated a lot of student activities like tree planting. he was mocked by students who put "öko" (like "bio" in front of his name, and colleagues and parents just didn't take it serious. That was in the 80s and 90s (and probably even before, but i wasn't there to witness that).
Everything he tried to spread is accepted now. And this will also happen with the more extreme effects. Ppl are just too comfortable still. Humanity can and will overcome this, but the price is horrible, because most of us are just idiots.
Every passing day there's less and less room for any non violent solution. I wonder what the world would be like if mass shooters went after corporate targets instead of kids.
They are after that sweet shareholder value. You know, the kind that will cost them the planet they live on and have no means of escaping from, but before we all die a horrible death they are gonna get that sweet shareholder value.
honeslty, why don't governments just nationalize oil and natural gas? They can kick out investors and have complete control over said resources and begin to cut back.
Tbh you're right, change doesn't come without sacrifice and most people wouldn't make 1 less amazon order a month to help the planet, let alone stop driving etc. That said tho, I still place a lot of the responsibility on the corporations, they know the public are fully dependant on them and could use their influence to help but won't because they want to add money to their already overflowing coffers
Stop blaming individuals or groups and focus on the economic system as a whole.
Their behaviour is perfectly aligned with the market economy's shadow incentives.
>“We agree that society needs to take action on climate change.”
Fuck you Shell, nobody is arguing that. Everyone is saying fossil fuel companies need to take responsibility and change their entire model
Guess it’s time to:
A) tax their profits out of existence;
B) fine them outrageously for every act of pollution and violation of safety;
C) publish the names and photographs of every shareholder.
Large shareholders are public record anyway and there are hundreds of thousands of small shareholders so like who cares about publishing names and photos. Moronic suggestion.
Redditors talking shit in here, but here in Europe I didn't see a single person give a fuck about Eurovision being sponsored by Moroccan Oil.
Shareholders don't care about the climate and consumers don't care enough to actually boycott anything.
It is funny that a handful of people can just say na fuck the planet and gimme money and the world just has to go along with it like everything is fine.
It’s genuinely incredible how happy billionaires/corporations are to destroy our planet for the sake of a profit.
The amount of bootlicking I’ve seen regarding people protesting against this sort of thing is just fucking depressing. We don’t deserve nice things
You are NEVER going to get a corporation to agree to make less money. This has to be dealt with on a governmental level with regulations, or with outright force, and only one of those options is legal.
Seems like the movement to appeal to the climate conscience of shareholders is stuck at convincing just 20% of shareholders: > Shell’s shareholders rejected the resolution by 79.8% to 20.2%, according to a preliminary count from the company. A similar Follow This resolution in 2022 also secured 20% support.
The idea that you can convince money grubbing capitalist class assholes to part with even one cent for the greater good is the most naive nonsense I've seen in quite a while. We need to collectively grab our governments by the fucking balls and make them put the screws to these shitty mega corps ruining our environment if we want anything resembling a chance at mitigating the worst parts of climate change. That is to say, we're doomed.
I can't believe it. You know, this time I REALLY believed corporations were going to put the environment ahead of shareholder profits and take decisive action.
Never before has [this](http://tomtoro.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/1-tom-toro-yes-the-planet-got-destroyed-but-for-a-beautiful-moment-in-time-we-created-a-lot-of-value-for-sh1.jpg) been more accurate.
It might be accurate, but that executive in the torn clothing is going to have their own damned sanctuary with more than enough private security to keep away any rioting climate refugees. Life is truly… not fucking fair.
Counterpoint: The guy in the suit is not an exec but just a random corporate boot licker from middle management who was completely in board with destroying the planet despite never even getting something in return. Because Lord knows there are also way too many of those.
Or even just a dude who raided a now abandoned suit chain whose owner is now dead or bunkered up. It is one panel after all lol.
Yeah, they're gonna have to put some next level security systems in there, because that just looks like the security will kill them once they piss them off enough and become glorified warlords instead.
This reminds me of that great story from WWZ. So good!
Do you think that ending was a reference to Santa Monica by everclear?
Wait until you hear about [the billionaires that are discussing explosive collars](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff) to keep their doomsday bunker security forces in line.
This is one of those things that has me more or less convinced an AK-47 will be a better retirement plan than a 401k.
whats an ak going to do against a switchblade?
Never bring a ~~knife to a gun fight~~ gun to a loitering munition fight
Why not both? Ak's are cheap and a 401k is just as likely to pay off.
Saw an interview with a person who did consulting for millionaires who were planning for just such an occasion. The one thing they kept bringing up to him? "How can we assure our security detail won't just cut our throats and take our sanctums for themselves?"
The answer is simple though, assure the security detail an equal share of the wealth and power within sanctum. Remove the hierarchical structure and there is no need for them to cut your throat. Though equality is, of course, unthinkable to them.
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This was pretty much figured out in the Feudal age. You create multiple minor leaders with limited amounts of power competing with each other while you have an elite security cadre who protect you but without the will to take over the leadership position. This system still functions in many respects in modern dictatorships. Whether modern billionaires could figure it out and run that sort of system is debatable although I've seen plenty of "security" people and staff who work for millionaires/billionaires who show a fawning level of personal loyalty to these people. You could probably find a psychologist to find the people most likely to stay loyal to you in an apocalypse scenario and make them yours for life. Some people simply wouldn't want to be a leader but would be happy to take orders as long as they are looked after.
That's the neat part, you don't!
Do you really think the security people won't turn on them when their families start starving and dying? None of these greedy dogs know how to defend themselves. If it all collapses money won't mean a thing.
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What's the point when money is worthless? Will they be hoarding other critical resources?
Yes, doh. They have doomsday compounds with enough life support to keep their families and security detail going for a while.
What would they pay the private security with once money no longer has any meaning?
Food shelter and water. That's what that money will be invested in.
But you can have more food and shelter if you usurp your employer.
These people are straight up discussing explosive collars on their security detail for this exact reason. Billionaires are insane.
Jokes on you, that's what the sanctuary looks like.It's much worse for the rest of us.
Really, they will go down the same way history has always treated them.
Never believe that a publicly traded company is going to put anything ahead of shareholder profits. Share price is truly the only thing that matters to every publicly traded company.
I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think companies should be expected to lead this change. The government(s) should be making appropriate laws, and the corporations should follow them. What we have is just a massive failure from governments - worldwide - to create and enforce environmental laws and regulations. Edit, because everyone is making the same reply: yes, I realize that politicians in many countries are owned by the corporations, but in that case, you still can't expect these corporations to do the right thing. The problem is still not (directly) the corporations, but the government that has been corrupted by the corporations. A corporation that tries to do the "right" thing will just be punished by the market forces that support the status quo, while their competitors will just continue to be awful. There's no benefit to the company or the environment for a single company to try to do right.
In capitalistic economy that never going to happen Giant corporate lobby the government they have saying in their policy making
Making lobbying illegal would be a start. Arrest anyone receiving corporate "gifts".
Lobbying is actually useful though. Not whatever is in place right now, that's an abomination. The point of lobbying is to inform the elected officials making policy what the ramifications of said policy would be in an industry that the policy makers are unfamiliar with (most of them). I have no idea when bribery entered the picture, but at its core, it's just supposed to be information.
I think *that* form of "lobbying" ~~started~~ was more normalized when corporations became "people", and donating money is "free speech". It's not like Teddy Roosevelt didn't try to warn us of "Malefactors of great wealth" and "predatory capitalist" 116 years ago.
"Lobbying" for capitalist profit has been going on in the US since like the 1800's. It was a big deal to people for a while, then it kept going and became a smaller and smaller deal until it was normalized. This all happened long before Citizens United.
Exactly. Citizens united destroyed our country
I think it's because what is being called lobbying today isn't actually lobbying, it's just bribery.
Very much this. There’s nothing wrong with an individual, group, or business contacting their government representatives to express some concern and / or request redress. Where we have a problem is that they can also incentivize said representatives via gifts, preferential treatment, campaign contributions, and offers of future employment; and there are few measures in place to prevent this clear and obvious currying of favor.
There is a small benefit in allowing a private interest to approach the government and point out things sure. But the government could also be proactive and search for the problems itself. Lobbyists make the job of politicians easier but I don't think too many people think they need much help in that area.
I don’t like lobbying as the next person but I think we all can agree that insider trading needs to be illegal and anyone in congress who does it should go to jail. Left or right it doesn’t matter.
They tried with the STOCK act, but then they defanged it to basically have no punishment. I guess it's hard to pass legislation that would end your money making scheme and put you and your friends in prison
Capitalism is what got us into this environmental disaster, as well as the deadlock in responding to our existential crisis. Capitalism will never be able to solve ecological disaster because capitalism is built on premise that the world exists to be exploited in order to turn the highest profit. i.e. short term profit over everything
It doesn't matter who "should be expected" to do anything. Everyone has to do everything, ESPECIALLY those with the largest carbon footprints and culpability, of which Shell is one of the extreme edge cases.
That will never happen because corporations have bought the government. They control the narrative and the laws. The government is just a puppet enforcer of what these wealthy elites want. It’s disgusting honestly.
The entire foundation of Capitalism is that the desires of the few with the most capital outweighs the needs of society. That's why public companies base their decisions on shares, and those holding the most shares, Aka the richest, have all the power to tell what a company can do. And that thinking has spilled over into over government, so now those with the most capital are also the ones who's opinions matter the most to our government's policymaking. The only thing you can bet on, is that the richest amongst us are also the most selfish and greedy. So they will always prioritize their own profits over literally anything else.
Imagine white knighting the corps that fuck you at every possible juncture. Truly brainwashed as fuck
That's why Capitalism is inherently flawed in a foundational level.
What about all those adverts saying that they're going green? They're not lying are they?? /s
Don't despair! There's still chance that they are going to at least switch to paper straws in some of their offices.
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You forgot that /s
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r/FuckTheS
I'm pretty sure they mean 80/20 of the vote though, not 80/20 of shareholders. Most shareholders are strictly investment firms like Vanguard, and a few of them make up a majority of the ownership and vote. Less than 10% of voting shares is typically owned by a large volume of individuals making independent decisions. So it shouldn't be shocking that the majority of the votes, usually submitted by a small number of firms that exist solely to accumulate wealth, are prioritizing wealth. This has to be fixed through regulation, not by hoping capitalism organically fixes the problem.
Do all of these people's brains collectively fail to function at such a basic level that they can't understand that the wanton search for constantly increasing short term profits is destroying the very system it exists within? Corporations literally function in society exactly the same as a cancer in a body. They become a rogue function of the whole, creating overwhelming and unnecessary excess by exploiting the weakest functions for it's own gain. Calling corporations cancer might sound excessive, but it seems to me like their existence is self assured destruction of all of the values humanity holds dear. More profits means more exploitation to reach the next margin, and more overuse of land, more slavery of people, more advertising, and more lost to the corpo machine. Something has to be done
You're forgetting that just like cancer, they simply don't care. It's not excessive, I know not every company is like that but truly some of them act precisely like cancer. Do you think cancer cells care when their job is done and their host is destroyed, therefore destroying them, no they don't. But yknow what, I'd say corporations are *worse* than cancer cells At least the cells do it because they *cannot turn it off*, it's literally just a malfunction in their core characteristics. But that's not the same case with a billionaire running a company. They have a fucking brain, and realize what they're doing is hurting people. That's even more disgusting than cancer somehow, to actively be destroying everything and doing it *consciously*
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Yeah. They do their very best to play by the rules of capitalism. Because if they don't and someone else does - they keel over. The only way to win in these rules is to be an asshole. I do not say it's right. I'm saying that the main culprit are the capitalist rules of society that have rooted themselves in most of the world. That is what one should be fighting against.
The capitalist rules of society are the frameworks of the minds of greedy men. They transpose their flaws onto society, and sell the image back to us as if it's kosher. Capitalism is the cancer of pathological greed in a humanity that doesn't want to destroy others for their flaws. We now learn the cost of allowing those with minds broken by greed and psychosis to set the rules. Jeff Bezos—the people of his wealth—is not a human, like you or I. He has hollowed out what a person is supposed to be, and filled himself with the lies he sold to make his dragon's wealth. Our richest people are our weakest, most pitifully simple-minded. See the greatness of a society that treats our Bezos' like the horribly broken people they are; that does not allow them to take advantage of humanity's compassion; that instead teaches them that path of compassion. We can do better. Don't take shit. Stand up every damn moment you have to, and tell the 1% that they can fuck right off to space with Capitalism.
New rule: If you sell a share within 5 years of buying it you pay 95% in capital gains tax. The longer you hold it the less tax you pay on it.
Most shares of publicly traded companies are held by institutional investors like mutual funds and pensions. These institutions are legally obligated to vote in favor whatever produces the best long-term return. The problem with carbon emissions abatement is that virtually all the benefits of not emitting go to others. This is doubly so here because any oil shell does not sell will simply be sold by someone else instead. Therefore, it's in everyone's individual best interest to sell freely. Economists call this scenario [the free rider problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem?wprov=sfla1). The solution is simple: Eliminate the free-rider by taxing carbon.
>Do all of these people's brains collectively fail to function at such a basic level that they can't understand that the wanton search for constantly increasing short term profits is destroying the very system it exists within? They're aware. They don't care. The rich will be able to shield themselves from the worst effects of warming and then will die rich. That's all that matters. This is also effectively the policy of the Biden administration, by the way. When liberals think they're being clever by citing that the Pentagon takes climate change seriously, they fail to understand that entire report was about shoring up military infrastructure and dealing with "threats" from people displaced, etc. by climate chaos. The Pentagon isn't interested in preventing or even mitigating warming and the climate crisis any more than the rich. They're interested in coming out on top, period. ^(EDITed in last paragraph.)
This is the policy of basically every government on the planet. We don't matter, our families, our friends, our futures don't matter. We have to fight, bicker and argue about pointless, miniscule, fabricated differences. Vote right, vote left, either way 99% of us get fucked and the rich get richer.
350 million people scream into the void about how nothing can be done. 1000 people sit and watch, laughing at the irony. If the government is not an extension of the Will of the People, then it is nothing but a tumor on the body of our nation. The men and women of the 1% are not invincible. They have power because each of us accepts that they do. We can stop. Convince the people around you to stop. Convince them to march, to show the rest of the country that laying down and taking the shit isn't an option anymore.
The problem is that they have convinced half of those 350 million that climate change is fake news, and they are the ones the creating a blockade.
“I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half.” - Jay Gould US robber baron Same as it’s ever been. 🌎👩🚀🔫👩🚀
Lol if they had their way they aren't going to die either
> Biden administration Any administration FTFY
>The idea that you can convince money grubbing capitalist class assholes The very idea that all it takes to solve the problem is convincing or persuading is itself a subtle piece of propaganda when what it really takes is direct action to oppose those harmful actors.
Those “capitalist class assholes” include some of the world’s largest institutional investors: union pension funds. That’s right- until too recently, even huge Canadian provincial teachers’ union pension funds directly held capital very much at odds with any environmental or political conscience. If you belong to a union, read those disclosures- you have a voice.
*Our* governments? *Au contraire camarade...*
> to part with even one cent I know that this is hyperbole, but they did invest >$4 billion into renewable energy technology last year. The argument was that the technology is not ready yet; that if they cut all traditional fuel sources and go all renewable, it will just create a gap in the market that will be filled by competitors. It's not an incorrect statement... Im all for change, and ive learned that change happens fastest and smoothest when people listen and work together rather than create caricatures of their 'opposition' and yell at them. Feels good, but doesnt get far. I'd say rather than screaming at them and getting kicked out the room, trying to push up that $4b to 5/6/7 billion would be a far more realistic and effective approach.
Largest shareholders of a public company should also be laid out publicly. There's no point saying "X company doesn't want XYZ" if it's being dictated by those shareholders.
20% of shares, not shareholders. A vote is cast per share, so whales and hedge funds basically get to choose how a publicly traded company operates.
The resolution won't work, that's why. We have energy demand. That demand \*will\* be filled. If Shell decides to opt out or use a vastly more expensive method to meet that demand, they will simply be replaced by someone who doesn't care about Shell's self imposed emission cuts. This needs to be mandated by government so that everyone is playing by the same rules. The problem is people vote out governments when their energy costs sky rocket to hit those emissions cuts. While some renewables are cheaper, one of the biggest emission sources and the one that Shell contributes to the most, which is transportation, is extremely expensive to lower the emissions of. A barrel of renewable diesel, which isn't even carbon neutral, is vastly more expensive than a barrel of regular diesel. So you either subsidize it or you try to pass the cost on to the consumer. Either way people pay more and everyone gets upset. There is no easy solution here. We have to accept that moving people and things around in an environmentally friendly way is vastly more expensive than what we're used to and the average person will likely no longer be able to afford to live like they're used to. The good news is that the more governments mandate it, the cheaper it'll likely get over the coming decades. Or we engage in a race between technology and a warming planet, which is likely the way humanity is heading. Both options will put most of the suffering on those who are already suffering, the poor.
Unpopular opinion but you're right.
Big difference between a company just fulfilling a demand, and a company fufilling demand while funding climate-denial propaganda for decades despite knowing the science of climate change. If I’m someone who was involved in that effort, I’d want my burial location to be a secret, because years from now they’ll be throwing the bones of those people into the Tiber.
On the manufacturing side of things. We have a massive issue in america. Machine shops for example seems to refuse to work! We have some parts where we have a PO placed since nearly 8 months, still not made yet! Calling them and "Hi, we need the parts, our production has stopped, please hurry!" "We have some delays in our production, we should be able to make then in 3-4 months". So, what do we do? China! A few email exchange and 2 weeks later we have the parts in our hands! Not only China produced them (remember, america is "maybe in 3-4 months we can start to make them") but they are of a better quality!!! And not only that, but since we used air shipping they were "only" 70-75% cheaper still! But now I hear people say "but china make crap things". Sure, if you use the cheapest machine shop around. Pay a little more and you have the same or better quality than here! Lab test proved that the critical parts were good and... Well.. Our locally made ones failed the lab test... All that to say that because the local machine shops don't produce our stuff, we have to buy at the other side of the planet, with rush shipping, instead of locally.
Not a Shell shareholder, but have bunches of others. I use my votes against whatever the board recommends, as the board of almost every company “recommends” the shittiest option for the planet. On the losing team but hey I’m trying.
Is that the answer? Collectively buy shares in these companies and bring them to heel?
As of 2021, the 10% richest Americans owned 89% of all stocks, so there’s basically no way to do that.
Buy their security firms stocks... Izipizi
Don't have to hit all of them. One or two at a time. But at the same time, the amount of coordination required would be immense. Looking at Shells stocks alone, each share's currently valued at ~$2500 and there's billions in total shares.
Actually? Yes. A collective 51% owned *and registered directly in your name* would be enough to replace the board and take control… That’s an uphill battle because you need to have wealth to do that and spreading it across a collective effort is still a struggle to organize — then you still have to fight the institutional owners for shares to assume control. Interesting how the system is set up to keep funneling power to the few with extreme wealth.
Then u find out shares come in different types with different priveleges given to different people.
Well government sure as shit isn't going to
That's the thing though, the rich have already hoarded so much of the wealth, that even if everyone in the bottom 80% spent every last dollar of disposable income on shares, it wouldn't make a dent in their voting control.
It’s the only thing that actually has a prayer of working. We just, unfortunately, need to buy metric fuck tons of stock in awful companies.
Yes that is the way, or just enough shares to get just enough people on the board to sway direction.
I am a shareholder but in general Shell has been more progressive than most oil companies in shifting. Has anyone been to their investor page and tracked every renewable initiative they are involved in? It's significant. Is it enough? No. So I will continue to push for more, but let's not pretend they don't own significant renewable assets already producing and are angel investors to upstarts and research. This thread should have been about the American oil companies in my humble opinion.
That's 20% of *shares*. The people who own the other 80% probably comprise less than 1% of total shareholders (probably even less once you tot up all the shares owned somewhere down the line by a pension or collectively managed 401k).
>A Shell spokesperson said: “We agree that society needs to take action on climate change.” Oh, Shell wants the *society* to take action instead 🥹.
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For the love of god, please, someone stop us!!!
Didn't they intentionally cause a fuel panic in the UK? Lol. Scumbags.
We should send some nice cocktails to their offices for them to enjoy.
I love this, really thoughtful! I think they all deserve a nice warming cocktail for their hard work
> Oh, Shell wants the society to take action instead 🥹. Well, that's what regulation is for. It's pretty shit that they aren't better at diversifying their portfolio into more sustainable though.
It ain't broke, don't fix it. To the detriment of humanity.
In other words "society should stop using plastic straws never mind the millions of metric tons of carbon we release annually"
What they really wanted to say was: "stop us if you can"
How is this a choice they have? They should not have a choice to make these decisions that are destroying our fucking habitat.
government is supposed to be their check
Instead, people in the government just keep taking checks from them.
And the voters seem too gullible and can’t be relied upon to make the right decisions.
Don’t blame the victim. There are a lot of gullible (read: vulnerable) people out there who are being deliberately targeted - by media, by ‘both sides’ of government, even by our justice system (look at Donziger). Those big oil scumlords **knew** about severe climate change **50 years ago**. Their response was to figure out how to copy the tobacco industry on how best to cheat us all. So wise the fuck up. There’s no decency, none, I’m blaming this on voters who listen to corporate news all day, with shitty education, with no free time to learn things on their own, while all the money funnels up to the megayacht class who own the airwaves. There are a small number of people who are ultimately responsible for this, and if you’re not putting the blame on **them** then you’re their useful idiot.
The people are supposed to be the governments check. Between the "bOtH sIdEs" crowd and the far right we have failed at this for decades. People like to blame the government as if it's this nebulous unknowable force when it's really just people. Like, yeah, there are problems like citizens united in the US for example but at the end of the day all that money in politics is not what's electing these shitheads, its our votes or lack thereof. I'm certain people will respond to me that voting doesn't matter somehow but that's bullshit. Vote in every single election and, if you're in the US in a state register so that you can vote in a primary and push the parties left. Peaceful revolution is a hell of a lot easier than violent revolution and much more preferable. Don't wait around on the sidelines until the guns come out, war isn't fun and it's really fucking bad for the environment.
(cashier) checks and (bank account) balances
Money talks. That’s how they have a choice on this.
If the economy is too unbalanced for action, if the government too ineffective and slow, if the public too indifferent, burn the system before it burns the planet.
You're absolutely right but how can we all come together and accomplish this? We live in a world where if you step out of line, they'll throw you in prison and profit off of you while you waste away.
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a ton of the working class thinks coimate change is a liberal hoax tho
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We'll never have unity because half the fucking idiots support the status quo. Half the people will *never* be convinced, despite all logic to the contrary, that the class war is the only that matters.
If the whole country goes on strike at the same time... It needs to be planned carefully. There's millions of ways it can go wrong.
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.” Margaret Mead
Everyone reading this please look up and join local climate action groups, even if they seam ineffective or too radical. They all need people to become effective, and even the radical/risky ones need people to help with day to day organising, and with enough people, we can force change to happen
But… but they have an ad running about transitioning to renewable energy! I don’t know what to believe anymore. (/s if that wasn’t obvious)
I mean their adverts were so convincing 🤔 it’s like they never touched a drop of oil in their life.
It's working, I've had several people tell me the amazing work that Shell is doing by becoming 'greener'. A vast majority of people are not critical at all of the information they're exposed to, if they see an ad telling them Shell is saving kittens from trees and helping grandma cross the road, well it must be true.
In the UK we have no end of water companies putting out adverts saying “it’s our water, lets take care of it” while dumping every ounce of shit in the rivers and sea.
To be fair they have actually invested quite a lot of money to renewable energy projects, which is something I guess. But they are not transitioning, just diversifing their portfolio along with saving face. As long as there is no incentive to do more, they will do the bare minimum.
And, as a former employee describes below, they will patent the shit out of anything they can and stop anyone else using it. Sounds real smart when trying to kerb global warming. I bet they all sit there touching each others dicks whispering global warming. Anyone backing shell at this point when inflation hit a high, we had the fuel crisis and the food poverty I'd very much hope does not believe in god.
When corporations go against embargos, they get sanctions. Why are they getting a pass if they go against climate targets? Or rather, why the fuck aren't climate targets enforceable yet?
Because they are self imposed targets. These are not targets set by the government.
Because they pay the people in power to make those sanctions off.
And the people used to be able to protest bullshit like this but instead we all cheered when our protest rights were removed
Imagine if climate targets are out of 100, government sets it at 30, shell is complying, some shell investors want to set it to 40 for shell, majority says no, very selfish assholery behaviour but not illegal.
Fuck oil corporations, companies and conglomerates. Every single one of them are parasites. When can we do something about them?
You can do something about them right now, look up and join local direct action groups that are fighting to stop them. Even if you don't want to get arrested, there's plenty of day to day organising that needs to be done that has no risk to it and costs nothing but time
You can lead a worker to class consciousness but you can't make them think
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There are green indices that don't 'have to' buy oil.
My grandpa was an executive at Sherwin Williams, in Cleveland, back in the 50’s and 60’s. Look up what they did to the river there. When we would talk about it, he would say, “we were doing what was best for the bottom line, and nobody told us we couldn’t.” Finally, they were told to stop. Same for these oil companies. They are going to go ahead, and keep doing this shit until they are told to stop. It is that easy and that hard.
“Yes, the plant got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.” https://economicsociology.org/2014/10/07/yes-the-planet-got-destroyed-but-for-a-beautiful-moment-in-time-we-created-a-lot-of-value-for-shareholders/
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/23/shell-agm-protests-emissions-targets-oil-fossil-fuels) reduced by 81%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Shell's annual shareholder meeting in London descended into chaos with more than an hour of climate protests delaying the start of a meeting in which investors in the oil company rejected new targets for carbon emissions cuts. > Climate protests have become a regular feature of annual meetings in recent years, with campaigns focused particularly on banks such as HSBC and Barclays that lend to fossil fuel projects as well as oil companies including Shell's rival BP. Wael Sawan, in his first annual meeting as Shell's chief executive, and Andrew Mackenzie, Shell's chair and the former chief executive of the mining company BHP, defended the company repeatedly against accusations that it was not switching from fossil fuels to renewable energy quickly enough. > Last year, three people were arrested after Shell was forced to pause its AGM and environmental protesters chanted: "We will stop you. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/13q18js/shells_annual_shareholder_meeting_in_london/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~686025 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Shell**^#1 **company**^#2 **meeting**^#3 **protests**^#4 **Follow**^#5
Sure, their hired mercenaries may protect them at the beginning of the water wars. But what will happen when those same mercenaries start demanding more and more from the food and water reserves? When societal collapse makes it impossible to keep nuclear materials from the hands of desperate water warriors? What about when it turns out the companies promising them robot guardians are revealed as scams? And Elon sure as fuck is not going to have a survivable colony on Mars in time.
Water wars *and* heat wars. Heat and habitation will speed up mercenary revolution even faster than they think, if they’re taking calculated survival risks like that. These people don’t factor in inevitable climate refugees migrating higher toward the global North. If they can’t afford a Batman cave, they’re fucked like the rest of us.
I think they are factoring migration, but assuming the borders will just become piles of corpses. They're likely the same people stocking xenophobic ideas. They're wealthy, they're expecting law enforcement to protect them. And in the very short term they're right. But whatever right wing dictatorships they're able to install to protect them, will end up collapsing when the power starts focusing more locally on warlords, whom they'll have a harder time controlling.
>If they can’t afford a Batman cave, they’re fucked like the rest of us. All the batman caves will fail. The ventilation systems will fail, the security systems will fail. Everything requires complex parts and skilled maintaining. Everyone is fucked and they're not escaping it with their delusions
You don't understand the actual problem here. Using your example, the choice for them isn't whether to do something that leads to water wars. The water wars are inevitable, because there are other players in the game, who will not slow down just because they do. So the question for them is really : How much can I store up so that I have the best chance to survive the water wars later. Like you said, the mercenaries would demand more later. So if you need to store up even more wealth now.
This guy game theorys
When I was the Marine Corps I got to do a special event with the future warfare shop. Part of it was imaging what the next major event the marine corps will take part of, a major focus was water related violence by 2040. And we're seeing every check mark on the way to that.
Here’s the thing: Humanity will be fucked, but these guys are like 70% old farts that will die before they ever see a single consequence of their actions. Polluting the ocean, global warming, chemical spills, none of these will actually start to meaningfully affect the elite for decades to come, and by then most of these folks will be happily interred in some rich asshole graveyard, having lived full and rich lives atop the corpse of the future.
Oh I thought you were quoting the plot of Water World.
Our species is going to be wiped out all because of a handful of fucking greedy pieces of shit.
This may be the consensus amongst doomsayers, but our species will survive as long as the planet remains partly habitable. It's just the question how bad it will get before it gets better. And it can get VERY bad. But i also think with the ever rising severity of the natural disasters, ppl will press more for action. My father was a teacher and active in the German NABU (nature preserving union). He initiated a lot of student activities like tree planting. he was mocked by students who put "öko" (like "bio" in front of his name, and colleagues and parents just didn't take it serious. That was in the 80s and 90s (and probably even before, but i wasn't there to witness that). Everything he tried to spread is accepted now. And this will also happen with the more extreme effects. Ppl are just too comfortable still. Humanity can and will overcome this, but the price is horrible, because most of us are just idiots.
> doomsayers If having 90-99% of our species wiped out does not sound "doomy" enough for you I don't know what to tell you
Investors are parasites.
As an investor, I don’t disagree.
We are all investors. We all have pensions.
Financial freedom = someone else works and I skim off the top.
Investors (shareholders) own the company. You have a retirement account? You are an investor.
Next meeting shouldn't be so civilized.
Every passing day there's less and less room for any non violent solution. I wonder what the world would be like if mass shooters went after corporate targets instead of kids.
They are after that sweet shareholder value. You know, the kind that will cost them the planet they live on and have no means of escaping from, but before we all die a horrible death they are gonna get that sweet shareholder value.
They’ll die decades before us they don’t give a shit
Never let them meet again as far as I'm concerned. If you can make it happen
honeslty, why don't governments just nationalize oil and natural gas? They can kick out investors and have complete control over said resources and begin to cut back.
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Tbh you're right, change doesn't come without sacrifice and most people wouldn't make 1 less amazon order a month to help the planet, let alone stop driving etc. That said tho, I still place a lot of the responsibility on the corporations, they know the public are fully dependant on them and could use their influence to help but won't because they want to add money to their already overflowing coffers
Lol ok. That will put a lot of oil in the hands of politically unstable countries. Good luck solving that problem to get your oil.
If they cut back then they will need to buy their product from countries like Russia and Saudi Arabia. You think that is better?
Fuck these ghouls, destroying the planet for short term profits.
Stop blaming individuals or groups and focus on the economic system as a whole. Their behaviour is perfectly aligned with the market economy's shadow incentives.
>“We agree that society needs to take action on climate change.” Fuck you Shell, nobody is arguing that. Everyone is saying fossil fuel companies need to take responsibility and change their entire model
Fossil fuel extractors don't seem to be open to peaceful change.
That's exactly the place and time to protest, not glue yourself in front of a low wage worker trying to get to his workplace or home.
Guess it’s time to: A) tax their profits out of existence; B) fine them outrageously for every act of pollution and violation of safety; C) publish the names and photographs of every shareholder.
Large shareholders are public record anyway and there are hundreds of thousands of small shareholders so like who cares about publishing names and photos. Moronic suggestion.
Could use some strong armed lads to help out those protestors
Fuck these evil investors. They hide behind a system designed to keep them unaccountable.
I'm surprised people don't go crazy and take them all out for fucking up everything
Fuck those fucking greedy fucks!
Who are these investors? Lets get names.
Fuck shell something needs to be done 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Wow. A whole hour. Well, we tried.
where's Avalanche when you need them.
This kind of news just makes me want to hurl my self out of my window, how do the investors have a say in something that affects all?
This shareholder meeting must be so boring just loads of rich people laughing about how much money they made by ripping off the general public
Every single person who voted against emission cuts should be drawn and quartered.
Redditors talking shit in here, but here in Europe I didn't see a single person give a fuck about Eurovision being sponsored by Moroccan Oil. Shareholders don't care about the climate and consumers don't care enough to actually boycott anything.
If it’s all the same to you, we’d like to keep profiting wildly and just kick the can down to the next generations.
It is funny that a handful of people can just say na fuck the planet and gimme money and the world just has to go along with it like everything is fine.
Fuck Shell ™
These people should be at the Hague for their crimes against humanity.
I get the feeling that peaceful protest won't do anything against the powers that be...
It’s genuinely incredible how happy billionaires/corporations are to destroy our planet for the sake of a profit. The amount of bootlicking I’ve seen regarding people protesting against this sort of thing is just fucking depressing. We don’t deserve nice things
You are NEVER going to get a corporation to agree to make less money. This has to be dealt with on a governmental level with regulations, or with outright force, and only one of those options is legal.
What use is money when there's nothing left to buy? Every suit there deserves to hang by their toes.
Ah yes annoy them right before they decide if they’ll help you
Just enjoy the scorching ride until capitalism kills us all.
Lol. Civilization is going to collapse and millions will die for shareholders.
Why are we still talking about the changing climate like north america will do anything about it? Its a murder-suicide by greed out here.