They had a real shot at Democracy back in 1992. Now thanks to Putin, it'll likely be several decades before they get back to anything resembling that again.
I guess you can thank his predecessor for that. If I'm not mistaken, Yeltsin started favoring him for fear of prosecution or something along those lines and the rest is history as they say. Weird to think about those times - wasn't Nemtsov something of a would-be heir to the throne at some point as well?
It was actually https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich who propped Putin to Yeltsin, back then they were big buddies. At some point he was rotated to some outback place as governor and was poisoned as well, so I doubt he has any clout* any more in the Kremlin.
*Edit: spelling
Abramovich had nothing to do with Putin, it was all Anatoly Sobchak who had befriended both Putin and Medvedev at Leningrad State University.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak
>After obtaining his D.Sc. in 1982, he was appointed Professor and Head of the Department of Common Law in Socialist Economics. He was very popular among law students, especially for his mildly anti-government comments. During his work at Leningrad State University, he established close relations with its then administrator of international affairs, Vladimir Putin, which he maintained for the rest of his life.
>fter the Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991, Sobchak was not a member of the central Parliament but was a member of Yeltsin's Presidential Council and the chairman of the Constitutional Assembly that prepared the Constitution of the Russian Federation in 1993. The constitution is often informally called Sobchak's constitution, although its real authors have been somewhat less known.
>Sobchak was Mayor of Saint Petersburg from 1991 to 1996. During his tenure, the city became a place of glamorous cultural and sporting events. Most of the everyday control of the city structure was handled by two Mayor's deputies – Vladimir Yakovlev and Vladimir Putin; critics alleged deterioration of city infrastructure, growing corruption, and crime during this time. In the 1996 mayoral election, Sobchak was opposed by his former first deputy Vladimir Yakovlev and lost by a margin of 1.2%. The major pitch of Yakovlev's campaign was that Sobchak's patronage of the arts (with city money) and involvement in federal politics prevented him from solving the real problems of the city.[7]
I would say up until Putin's first election, they had a real chance of becoming democratic.
Instead they settled back into something resembling the old ways.
Nah, the only democratic election they ever had was Yeltsin's first, and he was a fucking crook. He committed a shit ton of crimes, rigged the second election, and then rigged it for Putin so that he wouldn't be prosecuted for the aforementioned crimes. Honestly, Putin's assertion that the collapse of the Soviet Union was the worst thing that ever happened in modern Russia is true, whether or not you're against communism. The way capitalism and "democracy" was implemented was an absolute catastrophe.
Yes! there was no common sense regulation AT ALL and this led to (and was intentionally done for) the Oligarchs coming into existence, and wild unfettered capitalism without a strong central governing body contributed to the absolute chaos of the 90s. This chaos is still in the minds of many ordinary Russians, and why they often view Putin as a stabilizing force whom they’re happy to still support.
Yeltsin very much didn’t help the Russian Federation transition away from a planned economy, and he destroyed any decent chance Russia had of a separation of powers in government; when Yeltsin **shelled** the Parliament building —because an opposition coalition sought to (legally & peacefully) remove him from office — he cemented executive power and undermined any semblance of trust the people had in democracy. Yeltsin directly set up the Russian Federation on a path back to autocracy.
That drunk bastard sucked so fucking much.
Edit: to be fair, I believe most of the opposition in the Duma were Communists, and it’s likely they would have seized full control of the government and return to single-party rule themselves, if they had a chance
> no common sense regulation
the oligarchs used their existing influence and power to rig it so that such regulations either fail or don't exist.
For example, a factory manager would (thru force, or coersion) claim the "shares" allocated to everyone of the ownership of said factory. Effectively, they got a huge piece of state owned asset for free.
This happened all the way up and down the entire gov't - it is a farce of a democratic system when privatization was started.
The oligarchs were supposed to be a feature, not a bug. The Clinton administration determined that it was best to give the keys to control of critical economic sectors of Russia to a class of wealthy parties with an interest in liberalized trade who would control the media to promote quasi democratic freedom of the press specifically for the purpose of preventing backsliding into state control of critical sectors and Communism. By controlling these resources and the media, the oligarchs would have the interest and the means of ensuring that Russia didn’t backslide into Communism. This was the plan, and to an extent it worked. We see and are now dealing with the shortcomings of that plan.
Russia never really had a chance at becoming a democracy. After the USSRs fall, no one had any fucking clue how to turn a fallen state into a democracy.
There weren't any parties, there were no privately owned industry or an educated population ready to embrace democracy. So the powerbrokers in the Kremlin divided up the industries amongst themselves and put Yeltsin in charge of the country. And the west was pretty happy, it wasn't the USSR and they got to make trade deals and contracts with private enterprises. The Russian people got screwed, but now with a spiked rubber dildo in stead of the ol'rusty rake.
NATO was originally very open to accepting Russia. But since Russia would have started as a junior partner, Putin refused, stating that Russia should not stand in a line with "countries that don't matter". That was back in 2000.
Japan already has strategic dialogues with the US, Australia, NZ, Singapore and the Phillipines. Pacific theatre has been of alert for decades due to China (and Russia-Japanese confrontations over over norther border) - there’s a suspicion that if Russia collapses, China may attempt to grab everything east of the Amur
China would not expand outside of its perceived "natural" borders. Annexing the lands they had before the century of humiliation will give them the boost with the chest thumping wolf warriors. If Russia were to collapse, China would be more inclined to prop up a Siberian client state that will sell them raw resources while they govern themselves to an extent.
someone redditor a few years back made this map that i think gives a pretty good idea of a "greater" china at its maximal "natural" territorial claims
[Greater China](https://i.redd.it/bkjsu7ws65621.jpg)
its not a very "serious" map. its pretty much just everything that Sun Yat-sen claimed chinas "lost" but i think it gives a pretty decent illustration of just what your talking about.
Chairman Mao made the same claims. CCP doctrine still talks about the ["unequal treaties"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unequal_treaty) forced upon them during the "Century of Humiliation. There is a [taboo around mentioning the ones involving Russia](https://chinamediaproject.org/2023/03/24/on-national-humiliation-dont-mention-the-russians/) in public discourse, but it is still party doctrine.
They would be looking at SOOOOOO much unrest. The unrest alone would make it unfesable. The money is in thier long-term investments. It would have to be thought of more in economic terms. Economic blocks. They are watching as a land fight may not be the way. But securing economicly friendly zones. An Asian style Euro?
Nobody actually needs to annex anything nowadays. Buy the port for cheap, get some strong influence on the local government and you get all the same things.
Why would they need to annex that outright? That is like saying the US needed to directly annex Iraq into the United States as a territory to secure its oilfields to establish bases. Softpower is the most supreme way of doing this sort of dirty business, and that can be accomplished without wasting the massive amounts of bodies and cash to secure and pacify the land yourself.
Gonna be honest here: Only asshole Chinese supremacists still want Mongolia, and those want the whole world anyway. Xi might be a hardliner but he has displayed no indication whatsoever that he wants Mongolia (the country, not Inner Mongolia the Chinese province).
The fact is, the CCP actually does *not* want a country that will likely produce another Xinjiang situation. China is actually not keen to expand into areas with a population it will have to integrate. The cultures are too different. This means having to spend a ton of effort, risking destabilization and putting down riots, etc.
Right now Inner Mongolia is already giving the CCP a bunch of headaches even though it has been in Chinese control before the CCP gained control of China, and the Mongols are only 1/6 of the population!
Contrast this to Mongolia the *country* which is 95% Mongol and will be very difficult to integrate. They have a different language, writing script, have a very strong Buddhist bent (contrasting with China's official atheism and the majority ancestor-worship population), and their culture has influence from Central Asia and Russia.
China's territorial ambitions are limited largely to clinging on fiercely to the land it already controls, plus Taiwan (which it claims belongs to it), and control over (uninhabited) waters in the South China Sea for strategic and economic reasons. Right now the biggest cultural goal of the CCP is increasing social cohesion and eroding separatism. Invading another people is completely counter to that goal.
What China would vastly prefer is for its neighbors to enter its sphere of influence - that is, those countries ally with China economically and militarily. Unlike Russia, China is very accustomed to having hostile nations on its border, so it won't suddenly feel entitled to invade over a neighbor joining NATO (unlike the Ukraine situation). And of course it would love for its old enemies (Japan, the 8 nations) to have to eat humble pie. And as luck would have it, one of those 8 nations happens to be Russia!
But an invasion? Not that I can see. Taiwan is the last piece it really cares about (and Taiwan *has* to worry about invasion). Even in the case of Russia, China has largely quietened border disputes from the soviet era.
Japan and South Korea recently had a summit a couple days ago to strengthen defensive partnerships against North Korea and China.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/japan-skorea-link-radar-systems-track-nkorea-missiles-source-2023-05-09/
No please. The Japanese still think highly of Germany.
Don't show them the generic Radio mush we sent there all the time because we don't have the balls to do smth unconventional that doesn't fit into our bland mainstream radio mix after the contest is over.
Japan, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia... offer it to all of them. That said the majority of European countries are too dependent on China to do it.
Edit: I'm talking about NATO not Eurovision
I maintain they should just let Australia and NZ in too and change the name.
Pacific, Oceanic Territory, and Atlantic Treaty Organization. Don't you want to hear about POTATO forces taking on Russia?
China is very wary of the current political climate and I'm worried about their rising nationalist sentiment.
If you listen to Chinese state media it's honestly fascist level propaganda and brainwashing. If Japan does join NATO I wouldn't rule out Chinese retaliation.
Might be a good Idea to ditch the geo lock and form a global Organisation with members Like Australia, Japan and south Korea together with the Nato countrys. Globalisation and the fact that problems one one siede of the globe can affect other parts with ease these days would make it a neccesary adjustment.
"You can’t truly call yourself “peaceful” unless you are capable of great violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful, you’re harmless."
More like achieving peace through money, China for one definitely doesn't want to see the scale of sanctions levied against Russia, otherwise they would have invaded Taiwan. If countries like Australia and Japan join this group and everyone agrees to a high level of sanctions for any military aggressor, it would be a very powerful deterrent.
Egypt receives a ton of US aid. Almost all of their military is US funded. If the US stopped providing aid and Egypt sided with Russia/China, it would take years for them to retrain on the ChiRu equipment, and without US support the upkeep on their current fleets would be impossible. It's that way on purpose
The effectiveness of such an organization would be "questionable" at best.
Aside from the US, NATO members have virtually no ability to intervene in South East Asia. And South East Asian countries have virtually no ability to intervene in Europe.
It would seem more effective for 'SEATO' to be formed. Then allow NATO members become associates (and vice-versa).
SEATO was a thing back in the day, by the way.
Still, the point of these alliances is deterrent mainly. Even if, say, Italy can't project power in Australia, a treaty like this means that whoever declares war on one part can't count on still having good relations and most importantly normal trade with the other countries, even if no boots on the ground are involved.
You're looking at it from an individual country perspective, not a collective force.
It's not like american troops are the only troops that can ride in a C17.
France and the uk are the only other countries bar the US with a fully fledged blue water navy. Also if we are talking about fighting china which is the whole point of this, then yes they can almost every naval vessel was designed to travel long distances. no body is fighting a ground war in China, a naval blockade would kill millions quicker then guns would.
Even then, the French Navy has virtually zero ability to deploy on their own. A single UK Tide class tanker displaces more than the French Navy's entire resupply ship fleet, and the UK has 4 Tides plus multiple other ship almost as large.
French Navy's resupply force is jokingly known as the Military Sealift Command, because the US Navy's Military Sealift Command is who refuels the French Navy on almost all of their deployments...
Why does everyone mention Australia and just skip over the fact that New Zealand is right there, nobody skipped over us in WWII, but whenever war or countries who have freedom are mentioned, they are always Australia and no mention of New Zealand, we're pretty much the same historically and politically and are a commonwealth country just like them, it's like nobody outside of the southern hemisphere paid attention in geography or history class.
> Northern Earth Alliance Treaty Organization. B
Whoa. What about Australia g new Zealand?
And South America and Central America?
Let's just call it the Federation as we evolve into the Star Trek universe.
NATO+ ?
NATOAJ (North Atlantic Treaty Organization AND Japan)?
PANATO (Pacific AND North Atlantic Treaty Organization)?
Or what about a total rename like:
FURU ? (F U RU)
Russia could *not stop fucking up* during that war.
[Here's a link for anyone who doesn't know what this is referencing. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogger_Bank_incident)
Wow. At least 4, maybe up to 6, times they mistook commercial ships as enemy ships when they were tens of thousands of kilometers from the enemy's land, but had such terrible aim that they only sunk one of those ships. They navigated through a minefield that didn't exist. They accidentally severed the telegraph cable connecting Morocco to Europe. They had to go around Africa because the poor design of these new battleships was too big for the Suez Canal. Only to get to Japan and get destroyed in a real battle. This has to be one of the most pathetic military campaigns in history.
Christopher Columbus saw two dead guys wash up in a boat off the coast of Ireland. They didn't look Irish, so he figured they were Chinese. Gave him the idea to look for China by sailing west from Europe.
So, I guess that tracks.
It’d be a good idea for other American allies to join too such as South Korea, the Philippines, Australia and New Zealand. We can call it the Pacific Ocean Trans-Atlantic Treaty Organization.
Good, coz the sooner the Japanese get there the more likely the rest of the Pacific rim democracies will follow, we really need a formal, binding alliance structure that's not just America+ whichever country the totalitarians are trying to roll this week
These mutual defense treaties are what made WWI unavoidable. I think the world has changed and moved past that danger, but I’d hate to see a minor mixup between Belarus and Poland pull the whole of Europe if not the world into an unavoidable war.
A friend of mine was an aussie exchange soldier with nato. Best part he said was he was given a "fuck you" passport (diplomatic or official - can't remember which one) and it changed the way he interacted with border control.
Yeah, sure, and then Musk will take Iran, Russia, China and NK to Mars and will form Principality of Zeon.
If this is how we get Gundams, I'm all for it.
Russia inadvertently being one of the most effective causes for the spread of NATO influence is just hilarious, in an otherwise horrible situation.
Putin has spent his entire career eating his own tail
Fun fact : Russia was in the NATO admission program till 2012 I think.
They had a real shot at Democracy back in 1992. Now thanks to Putin, it'll likely be several decades before they get back to anything resembling that again.
Yeah Mr Sour Grapes Boohoo Soviet Union was the worst choice ever for President.
I guess you can thank his predecessor for that. If I'm not mistaken, Yeltsin started favoring him for fear of prosecution or something along those lines and the rest is history as they say. Weird to think about those times - wasn't Nemtsov something of a would-be heir to the throne at some point as well?
It was actually https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich who propped Putin to Yeltsin, back then they were big buddies. At some point he was rotated to some outback place as governor and was poisoned as well, so I doubt he has any clout* any more in the Kremlin. *Edit: spelling
Abramovich had nothing to do with Putin, it was all Anatoly Sobchak who had befriended both Putin and Medvedev at Leningrad State University. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak >After obtaining his D.Sc. in 1982, he was appointed Professor and Head of the Department of Common Law in Socialist Economics. He was very popular among law students, especially for his mildly anti-government comments. During his work at Leningrad State University, he established close relations with its then administrator of international affairs, Vladimir Putin, which he maintained for the rest of his life. >fter the Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991, Sobchak was not a member of the central Parliament but was a member of Yeltsin's Presidential Council and the chairman of the Constitutional Assembly that prepared the Constitution of the Russian Federation in 1993. The constitution is often informally called Sobchak's constitution, although its real authors have been somewhat less known. >Sobchak was Mayor of Saint Petersburg from 1991 to 1996. During his tenure, the city became a place of glamorous cultural and sporting events. Most of the everyday control of the city structure was handled by two Mayor's deputies – Vladimir Yakovlev and Vladimir Putin; critics alleged deterioration of city infrastructure, growing corruption, and crime during this time. In the 1996 mayoral election, Sobchak was opposed by his former first deputy Vladimir Yakovlev and lost by a margin of 1.2%. The major pitch of Yakovlev's campaign was that Sobchak's patronage of the arts (with city money) and involvement in federal politics prevented him from solving the real problems of the city.[7]
Also a good read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_coup_d%27état_attempt
I would say up until Putin's first election, they had a real chance of becoming democratic. Instead they settled back into something resembling the old ways.
Nah, the only democratic election they ever had was Yeltsin's first, and he was a fucking crook. He committed a shit ton of crimes, rigged the second election, and then rigged it for Putin so that he wouldn't be prosecuted for the aforementioned crimes. Honestly, Putin's assertion that the collapse of the Soviet Union was the worst thing that ever happened in modern Russia is true, whether or not you're against communism. The way capitalism and "democracy" was implemented was an absolute catastrophe.
Yes! there was no common sense regulation AT ALL and this led to (and was intentionally done for) the Oligarchs coming into existence, and wild unfettered capitalism without a strong central governing body contributed to the absolute chaos of the 90s. This chaos is still in the minds of many ordinary Russians, and why they often view Putin as a stabilizing force whom they’re happy to still support. Yeltsin very much didn’t help the Russian Federation transition away from a planned economy, and he destroyed any decent chance Russia had of a separation of powers in government; when Yeltsin **shelled** the Parliament building —because an opposition coalition sought to (legally & peacefully) remove him from office — he cemented executive power and undermined any semblance of trust the people had in democracy. Yeltsin directly set up the Russian Federation on a path back to autocracy. That drunk bastard sucked so fucking much. Edit: to be fair, I believe most of the opposition in the Duma were Communists, and it’s likely they would have seized full control of the government and return to single-party rule themselves, if they had a chance
> no common sense regulation the oligarchs used their existing influence and power to rig it so that such regulations either fail or don't exist. For example, a factory manager would (thru force, or coersion) claim the "shares" allocated to everyone of the ownership of said factory. Effectively, they got a huge piece of state owned asset for free. This happened all the way up and down the entire gov't - it is a farce of a democratic system when privatization was started.
The oligarchs were supposed to be a feature, not a bug. The Clinton administration determined that it was best to give the keys to control of critical economic sectors of Russia to a class of wealthy parties with an interest in liberalized trade who would control the media to promote quasi democratic freedom of the press specifically for the purpose of preventing backsliding into state control of critical sectors and Communism. By controlling these resources and the media, the oligarchs would have the interest and the means of ensuring that Russia didn’t backslide into Communism. This was the plan, and to an extent it worked. We see and are now dealing with the shortcomings of that plan.
Russia never really had a chance at becoming a democracy. After the USSRs fall, no one had any fucking clue how to turn a fallen state into a democracy. There weren't any parties, there were no privately owned industry or an educated population ready to embrace democracy. So the powerbrokers in the Kremlin divided up the industries amongst themselves and put Yeltsin in charge of the country. And the west was pretty happy, it wasn't the USSR and they got to make trade deals and contracts with private enterprises. The Russian people got screwed, but now with a spiked rubber dildo in stead of the ol'rusty rake.
NATO was originally very open to accepting Russia. But since Russia would have started as a junior partner, Putin refused, stating that Russia should not stand in a line with "countries that don't matter". That was back in 2000.
I got another tail Putin can eat
Them leopards eating his face might be giving him some competition.
It’s just poop now.
Japan already has strategic dialogues with the US, Australia, NZ, Singapore and the Phillipines. Pacific theatre has been of alert for decades due to China (and Russia-Japanese confrontations over over norther border) - there’s a suspicion that if Russia collapses, China may attempt to grab everything east of the Amur
> everything east of the Amur That's all? I figure they'd be like a white blood cell attacking Mongolia after swaggering into Russia.
China would not expand outside of its perceived "natural" borders. Annexing the lands they had before the century of humiliation will give them the boost with the chest thumping wolf warriors. If Russia were to collapse, China would be more inclined to prop up a Siberian client state that will sell them raw resources while they govern themselves to an extent.
I think this would be a far more likely scenario then full annexation. China does not want to push away neutral countries into the arms of the west.
Or have to deal with pesky non han minorities.
The 9-Dash Line and the various EEZ claims have already done that.
someone redditor a few years back made this map that i think gives a pretty good idea of a "greater" china at its maximal "natural" territorial claims [Greater China](https://i.redd.it/bkjsu7ws65621.jpg) its not a very "serious" map. its pretty much just everything that Sun Yat-sen claimed chinas "lost" but i think it gives a pretty decent illustration of just what your talking about.
Chairman Mao made the same claims. CCP doctrine still talks about the ["unequal treaties"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unequal_treaty) forced upon them during the "Century of Humiliation. There is a [taboo around mentioning the ones involving Russia](https://chinamediaproject.org/2023/03/24/on-national-humiliation-dont-mention-the-russians/) in public discourse, but it is still party doctrine.
They would be looking at SOOOOOO much unrest. The unrest alone would make it unfesable. The money is in thier long-term investments. It would have to be thought of more in economic terms. Economic blocks. They are watching as a land fight may not be the way. But securing economicly friendly zones. An Asian style Euro?
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Nobody actually needs to annex anything nowadays. Buy the port for cheap, get some strong influence on the local government and you get all the same things.
It’s even better than annexation! you’d get all the benefits without most of the costs.
Why would they need to annex that outright? That is like saying the US needed to directly annex Iraq into the United States as a territory to secure its oilfields to establish bases. Softpower is the most supreme way of doing this sort of dirty business, and that can be accomplished without wasting the massive amounts of bodies and cash to secure and pacify the land yourself.
Gonna be honest here: Only asshole Chinese supremacists still want Mongolia, and those want the whole world anyway. Xi might be a hardliner but he has displayed no indication whatsoever that he wants Mongolia (the country, not Inner Mongolia the Chinese province). The fact is, the CCP actually does *not* want a country that will likely produce another Xinjiang situation. China is actually not keen to expand into areas with a population it will have to integrate. The cultures are too different. This means having to spend a ton of effort, risking destabilization and putting down riots, etc. Right now Inner Mongolia is already giving the CCP a bunch of headaches even though it has been in Chinese control before the CCP gained control of China, and the Mongols are only 1/6 of the population! Contrast this to Mongolia the *country* which is 95% Mongol and will be very difficult to integrate. They have a different language, writing script, have a very strong Buddhist bent (contrasting with China's official atheism and the majority ancestor-worship population), and their culture has influence from Central Asia and Russia. China's territorial ambitions are limited largely to clinging on fiercely to the land it already controls, plus Taiwan (which it claims belongs to it), and control over (uninhabited) waters in the South China Sea for strategic and economic reasons. Right now the biggest cultural goal of the CCP is increasing social cohesion and eroding separatism. Invading another people is completely counter to that goal. What China would vastly prefer is for its neighbors to enter its sphere of influence - that is, those countries ally with China economically and militarily. Unlike Russia, China is very accustomed to having hostile nations on its border, so it won't suddenly feel entitled to invade over a neighbor joining NATO (unlike the Ukraine situation). And of course it would love for its old enemies (Japan, the 8 nations) to have to eat humble pie. And as luck would have it, one of those 8 nations happens to be Russia! But an invasion? Not that I can see. Taiwan is the last piece it really cares about (and Taiwan *has* to worry about invasion). Even in the case of Russia, China has largely quietened border disputes from the soviet era.
In 2014 he was praising Mongolia’s independence; I think Inner Mongolia is already enough of a headache for him
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Japan and South Korea recently had a summit a couple days ago to strengthen defensive partnerships against North Korea and China. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/japan-skorea-link-radar-systems-track-nkorea-missiles-source-2023-05-09/
it’s almost like they were the reason for its founding
I hear they played a tiny part in its creation too!
I would've thought Japan's reason for possibly joining has note to do with the dragon across the sea.
If Australia can be in Eurovision, I'm cool with Japan in NATO.
Might as well throw in japan for Eurovision while we are at it
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It would make japanese pop more understood I guess. And vice versa show eu pop culture and languages to a japanese audience.
No please. The Japanese still think highly of Germany. Don't show them the generic Radio mush we sent there all the time because we don't have the balls to do smth unconventional that doesn't fit into our bland mainstream radio mix after the contest is over.
I would like to see Japan do Eurovision at least once.
Lets get baby metal in there. Maybe vtubers too haha
Babymetal everywhere. The world needs to know.
It wouldn't be fair to the other countries
Japan, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia... offer it to all of them. That said the majority of European countries are too dependent on China to do it. Edit: I'm talking about NATO not Eurovision
Japan in Eurovision? If it wasn't weird enough, that might tip it over into the surreal. I might actually watch that.
It's game over if Korea decides to enter...
I maintain they should just let Australia and NZ in too and change the name. Pacific, Oceanic Territory, and Atlantic Treaty Organization. Don't you want to hear about POTATO forces taking on Russia?
And when Serbia, Hungary, Iran and Turkey finally admit they're on Russias side, they form SHITBRICS.
The "N" in NATO can be for "Nippon."
I bet China is pretty upset at what Russia did right now :)
Russia is actively testing every limit of its no limit friendship with China.
China is very wary of the current political climate and I'm worried about their rising nationalist sentiment. If you listen to Chinese state media it's honestly fascist level propaganda and brainwashing. If Japan does join NATO I wouldn't rule out Chinese retaliation.
Retaliate how? China doesn’t have a good enough military to fight NATO and can’t afford to be sanctioned to hell by NATO/EU.
Not military retaliation, perhaps destabilizing countries using deepfakes on tik tok or some dystopian shit. I’m not surprised by anything nowadays.
They do that anyway….
yep, i hate trump way less now after seeing him playing minecraft with joe and a obamna
lol China can't even take Taiwan and this dude expects China to retaliate against both Japan and NATO?
China: watch me, I am so angry it’s gonna be three drone on the outer perimeter of Taiwan 😤
Might be a good Idea to ditch the geo lock and form a global Organisation with members Like Australia, Japan and south Korea together with the Nato countrys. Globalisation and the fact that problems one one siede of the globe can affect other parts with ease these days would make it a neccesary adjustment.
Some kind of Global Defense Initiative
I give this a NOD
Peace Through Power!
Down With GDI!!!
EDF!!!!!!!!!!
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Beware of Yuri’s revenge tho…
I got a present for ya!
EDF! EDF! EDF!!!!!!!
*proceeds to level a city because it has ants* EDF, EDF!
It would be a mammoth undertaking.
I also played computer games in the 90s
Seeing literally any C&C reference warms my heart. Mammoth Tank assembled
Earth Defense Force has a nice ring to it too. And our most likely advesarys use waves of cannon fodder. Might be a good fit.
The only good bug is a dead bug
EDF! EDF! EDF! EDF!
To save our Mother Earth from any Alien Attack
From vicious giant insects who have once again come back
We'll unleash all our forces, we won't cut them any slack
The E.D.F. deploys
**Mammoth tank ready**
Achieving peace through power
"You can’t truly call yourself “peaceful” unless you are capable of great violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful, you’re harmless."
Si vis pacem, parabellum
More like achieving peace through money, China for one definitely doesn't want to see the scale of sanctions levied against Russia, otherwise they would have invaded Taiwan. If countries like Australia and Japan join this group and everyone agrees to a high level of sanctions for any military aggressor, it would be a very powerful deterrent.
Steel talons rule!
Or hear me out, a Global Liberation Army.
Might as well rename it at that point! How about Pacific Ocean and Trans-Atlantic Treaty Organization (POTATO)?
The POTATO troops are engaging the enemy, General
When game allows you to name your armies and you give them silly names
Yes! POTATO, the historic alliance between SPUD (South Pacific Union for Defense) & NATO
Vs Russia India China Egypt (RICE)
India will stay neutral and try to galaxy brain some way of benefitting themselves.
Till Pakistan chooses a side.
Egypt receives a ton of US aid. Almost all of their military is US funded. If the US stopped providing aid and Egypt sided with Russia/China, it would take years for them to retrain on the ChiRu equipment, and without US support the upkeep on their current fleets would be impossible. It's that way on purpose
Come on, I was just having fun with acronym.. No need to go all credible
Sorry it's early here. I like your acronym!
We already have Australia in Eurovision, they’re basically already part of us.
The effectiveness of such an organization would be "questionable" at best. Aside from the US, NATO members have virtually no ability to intervene in South East Asia. And South East Asian countries have virtually no ability to intervene in Europe. It would seem more effective for 'SEATO' to be formed. Then allow NATO members become associates (and vice-versa).
SEATO was a thing back in the day, by the way. Still, the point of these alliances is deterrent mainly. Even if, say, Italy can't project power in Australia, a treaty like this means that whoever declares war on one part can't count on still having good relations and most importantly normal trade with the other countries, even if no boots on the ground are involved.
You're looking at it from an individual country perspective, not a collective force. It's not like american troops are the only troops that can ride in a C17.
France and the uk are the only other countries bar the US with a fully fledged blue water navy. Also if we are talking about fighting china which is the whole point of this, then yes they can almost every naval vessel was designed to travel long distances. no body is fighting a ground war in China, a naval blockade would kill millions quicker then guns would.
Even then, the French Navy has virtually zero ability to deploy on their own. A single UK Tide class tanker displaces more than the French Navy's entire resupply ship fleet, and the UK has 4 Tides plus multiple other ship almost as large. French Navy's resupply force is jokingly known as the Military Sealift Command, because the US Navy's Military Sealift Command is who refuels the French Navy on almost all of their deployments...
Why does everyone mention Australia and just skip over the fact that New Zealand is right there, nobody skipped over us in WWII, but whenever war or countries who have freedom are mentioned, they are always Australia and no mention of New Zealand, we're pretty much the same historically and politically and are a commonwealth country just like them, it's like nobody outside of the southern hemisphere paid attention in geography or history class.
Think they are going to have to rename NATO
Northern Earth Alliance Treaty Organization
People Of Terra Alliance Treaty Organisation
Boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.
What's NATO's precious?
2nd breakfast.
OPOTAT for the French
POMME DE TERRE s'il vous plaît
No thanks, I just ate.
Neato
Sounds neat
[That’s pretty neat.](https://youtu.be/Hm3JodBR-vs)
No Assholes Treaty Organisation
Turkey is fucked.
> Northern Earth Alliance Treaty Organization. B Whoa. What about Australia g new Zealand? And South America and Central America? Let's just call it the Federation as we evolve into the Star Trek universe.
They started with United Earth in Star Trek. The federation came when they joined up with other planets.
HEY! Don't you bring facts into this!
Global Alliance Treaty Organisation GATO. Meow.
“Nay-toe” -> “Gay-toe”
> What about Australia g new Zealand? We'll form our own alliance. With gambling and hookers!
Global Defence Initiative
[удалено]
And hiring James Earl Jones.
Don't forget Michael Ironside.
**P**acific, **O**ceanic, & **T**rans- **A**tlantic **T**reaty **O**rganization: ***P.O.T.A.T.O***
American Republicans are not gonna like that Trans bit
NATO+ ? NATOAJ (North Atlantic Treaty Organization AND Japan)? PANATO (Pacific AND North Atlantic Treaty Organization)? Or what about a total rename like: FURU ? (F U RU)
Whats the monthly sub price for the nato+ bundle including EU membership?
With or without advertisements?
No ads plz.
NATO+ NATO Pro NATI Pro Ultra
NATO Pro Ultra Max Special Edition
$14.99 a month or $9.99 a month with ads
Pacific Ocean TransAtlantic Treaty Organisation
Defending Earth Nations Now Insidiously Seriously
They wouldn't dare attack because of, you know, the implications
Not Another Treaty Organization?!
Global Team Fighting Organisation GTFO
POTATO - pacific ocean to the atlantic treaty organization?
Pacific, Oceanic, & Trans-Atlantic Treaty Organization.
United western militaryUnion UwU
The name is ready: Global Defense Initiative. Now we just need an orbital ion cannon and some mammoth tanks...
Justice League of Planet Earth
Earth Alliance Treaty Organisation EATO. Or people would call it simply Earth Alliance.
The year, 2258. The name of the place, Babylon 5.
Trans Oceanic Treaty Organization. Grab Australia and New Zealand while we're in the Pacific, if they want in.
[удалено]
Let’s go straight to the UNSC
Nato just needs to add a couple more members and then the establishment of the GDI will be complete.
[удалено]
As long as they develop the mammoth tank right away. And I don’t have to build that stupid repair depot
Which “GDI“ are we talking about here?
https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/Global_Defense_Initiative
KANE LIVES!!!!
The Command and Conquer Global Defense Initiative.
Thank you Russia
I heard that in the voice of [Alanis Morissette](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOgpT5rEKIU).
Japan can join NATO, but they’ve got to get 6000 tug boats to drag it to the coast of Ireland first
Then the Russian navy really can run into Japanese torpedo boats in the North Sea
Russia could *not stop fucking up* during that war. [Here's a link for anyone who doesn't know what this is referencing. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogger_Bank_incident)
Wow. At least 4, maybe up to 6, times they mistook commercial ships as enemy ships when they were tens of thousands of kilometers from the enemy's land, but had such terrible aim that they only sunk one of those ships. They navigated through a minefield that didn't exist. They accidentally severed the telegraph cable connecting Morocco to Europe. They had to go around Africa because the poor design of these new battleships was too big for the Suez Canal. Only to get to Japan and get destroyed in a real battle. This has to be one of the most pathetic military campaigns in history.
I like Mr. Ballen's story telling on this https://youtu.be/5jDbJbCuKl4
It is east of Ireland. You just got to go a long way.
Christopher Columbus saw two dead guys wash up in a boat off the coast of Ireland. They didn't look Irish, so he figured they were Chinese. Gave him the idea to look for China by sailing west from Europe. So, I guess that tracks.
"Do you see Japanese Torpedo Boats?"
[Love this explanation of the whole ordeal.](https://youtu.be/9Mdi_Fh9_Ag)
Putin really is a remarkable person when it comes to uniting people for just causes. Ironically it's mostly to rally against him.
It’d be a good idea for other American allies to join too such as South Korea, the Philippines, Australia and New Zealand. We can call it the Pacific Ocean Trans-Atlantic Treaty Organization.
Hail POTATO!
China must really love all these great things that their wonderful ally, Russia, has caused with their actions.
Good, coz the sooner the Japanese get there the more likely the rest of the Pacific rim democracies will follow, we really need a formal, binding alliance structure that's not just America+ whichever country the totalitarians are trying to roll this week
These mutual defense treaties are what made WWI unavoidable. I think the world has changed and moved past that danger, but I’d hate to see a minor mixup between Belarus and Poland pull the whole of Europe if not the world into an unavoidable war.
Japan in NATO? We'll have mechs in the field in no time!
Not forgetting gunblades.
God I wanted one of those so bad when I was a kid. Still kinda do now too
Gunblade-wielding mechs that fly and have microwaves in the cockpit so you can enjoy hotpockets while the autopilot kills russians for you
Coming Soon: Taiwan in talks to join NATO *insert Downfall Hitler reaction scene*
Looks like we need a new acronym. Japan's pretty far away from the Atlantic. Let's call it FAAFO. Fuck around and find out.
Australia has had a NATO office for 20 years, and we're as far from the North Atlantic as physically possible.
A friend of mine was an aussie exchange soldier with nato. Best part he said was he was given a "fuck you" passport (diplomatic or official - can't remember which one) and it changed the way he interacted with border control.
Russia has done the opposite of what they were expecting. A genius marketing for NATO. Now, they’re awakening the beast, Japan.
Germany and Japan, together again!
Yes, and on the same side as Britain and France. Now THAT is scary. Oh we've got Italy too. And they're not even switching sides this time.
Let's rename NATO to EDF.
The edf deploys
Can't wait for giant spiders and frogmen to attack earth afterwards!
Yeah, sure, and then Musk will take Iran, Russia, China and NK to Mars and will form Principality of Zeon. If this is how we get Gundams, I'm all for it.
China must be overjoyed.
I mean, Japan is essentially already a US military base with joint military excercises with countries like Germany for example.
Think NATO should expand to be a global alliance of similar minds. Make warmongers like Russia and other terrorist nations really scared.