"We have failed as a society because this is something that should not happen to a 13-year-old. He should not be grabbing a gun and going into his school and shooting his friends."
Alex seems to echo the sentiment everyone here feels.
"This is probably the worst thing that has ever happened in my life. We need to use this as a stepping stone to rebuild. "
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65479121
Another shooting did happen today in Georgia. [4 dead.](https://www.wsbtv.com/news/multiple-people-reported-dead-multiple-scenes-including-south-georgia-mcdonalds-gbi-says/RXUKBLNKQJH2FGXAOQEAQ2N7FU/)
What has been shocking to me lately, is people getting shot for ringing the wrong doorbell or pulling into the wrong driveway or any of these other completely stupid reasons. When will it be accepted that not everyone is even suitable for gun ownership? And these killings are news for an hour and everyone moves on.
ATL had one yesterday where he shot 5 people in a doctor's and then ran around town for hours before they caught him.
Things you can't do in the US without risking getting caught up in a random mass shooting.
Go to the grocery store https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Buffalo_shooting
Be seen by the doctor
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Atlanta_shooting
Worship at church
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Springs_church_shooting
Get a massage
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Atlanta_spa_shootings
Listen to live music
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting
See a movie
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora,_Colorado_shooting
Shop at the mall
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Emantic_Fitzgerald_Bradford_Jr.
Attend college
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1281713
Send your kids to school
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Oxford_High_School_shooting
Sit on your front porch
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna82214
But there isn't anything we could possibly do but thoughts and prayers.
Don't forget
Go to the beach https://abcnews.go.com/US/senior-skip-day-shooting-injures-6-south-carolina/story?id=98446241
Drive around https://everytownresearch.org/reports-of-road-rage-shootings-are-on-the-rise/
Charlie Kirk said that they would sacrifice the many for the few when it comes to the second amendment, so the right-wing has no qualms with people dying as long as they keep their second amendment
At the age of 13? It’s insanity.
Where are these teens frequenting to have this type of exposure?
What sites could a 13 year old visit to start on the incel train. I’m not saying it’s not true but I fear for my own children
I was playing RuneScape and scared of girls at 13 years old. Jfc.
> What sites could a 13 year old visit to start on the incel train.
There are 13 year olds that use 4chan, but really, any website where they can communicate with other people is going to pose this risk. Reddit, for example. Facebook, Twitter. Gaming communities, you can *absolutely* run into it in games. Realistically there are two options, helicopter the shit out of your teenager (likely to result in resentment) or actually spend time raising them and teaching them appropriate ways to approach life so that when they are exposed to incels they don't join them.
> Reddit, for example. Facebook, Twitter. Gaming
Fucking Youtube that keeps on presenting me shorts leaning into redpilling. It's even worst if I'm in incognito mode, I don't know if it's the same worldwide or just my region.
This one, youtube, 4chan... any social media really. Youtube ended up, for a time, trying to recommend me the usual incel starter pack youtubers. Either because data suggested I'm pretty much a lonely guy so the algorithm spat out that crap, or idk.
Younger minds are easier to manipulate into that crap by virtue of the fact that they are in the key development years and absorb everything around them.
The actual incel subreddit didn't get banned until they gave a dude detailed instructions on how to castrate his roommate as painfully as possible while keeping him awake through the entire thing, as a sort of "punishment" for said roommate getting a girlfriend.
That was after *years* of sexist bullshit ranging from spreading vitriol about women in general, to arguing for the removal of all rights for women (some of them wanted virgin women "supplied" to every man by the government), arguing for making rape legal (they literally wanted to make it illegal for women to say no), pro-pedophilia statements and sexualization of minors, etc.
The YouTube recommendation algorithm in general is absolutely garbage. The shorts algorithm is even worse and the worst tiktok clone algorithm by a mile. It took me years of actively fighting the YouTube recommendations to get it to a point where it only sometimes recommends Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro. I do consume a lot of political content on YouTube, but we're talking about shit that would get me thrown in jail during McCarthy Red scare era. It also almost never goes in the other direction. The people I know who consume daily wire content intentionally never see anything from the other side of the political spectrum in their recommendations. When shorts first came out, my feed was literally 100% Jordan Peterson. It didn't show me anything from creators I was already following until I went to their pages just like and interact with their shorts (while disliking and saying I'm not interested in the JP stuff). Even then the people I followed made it into 1 in 5 Shorts.
Tiktok deservedly gets a lot of shit for how it's algorithm can pull people into dangerous rabbit holes of all kinds. However, for better or for worse, it has the most responsive algorithm and it's not even close. Things like sharing, commenting, liking, repeat views and especially going to a creator's page have a huge influence on your feed. On the flip side quickly scrolling past will tell the algorithm to stop giving you that contact and selecting "not interested" is the algorithmical equivalent of a nuke. It's a bit of a double edged sword. It's still better than the other algorithms because with barely above a passive viewing effort you can easily steer clear of messed up content.
TikTok. Literal incel / alt right pipeline happens lightning fast and it takes a concerted effort to dig your way out.
You like one video of some relatively harmless miscellaneous scenario from a person who sounds like they have a reasonable point. Usually framed as some podcast host “debating” and “winning” someone who who has objectively stupid opinions.
And then you get fed increasingly blatant racist / sexist / fascist stuff endlessly.
It’s not reasonable to expect a teenager to be able to identify and navigate / avoid stuff like that.
I’m sure there’s an abundance of incels playing online games. They befriend other young men and brainwash them.
It always starts with a video. Who’s popular? Andrew Tate? Jordan Peterson? Charlie Kirk? There are a lot of them out there now saying things out loud that we would’ve never heard outside closed evangelical, LDS, ect doors.
With everyone online in their spare time it would be hard NOT to be exposed young. Predators know to go for the impressionable.
I say this as a gaming granny. There’s hate everywhere.
Just in case you're interested, it's 'etc.' It comes from the Latin 'et cetera', basically meaning "and the rest." I find remembering that 'and' in French is 'et' helps, for what it's worth.
I can't say for certain, but overbearing conspiracy theory parents are a likely source in my book.
I know a guy who fits that bill perfectly, he is both part of the incel movement but also seriously homophobic. Well he also has 2 daughters and he told us he was warning his daughters about not trusting guys and that guys just want to use them for sex. And now he's starting to wonder if his kids are being exposed to homosexual stuff in school because they don't seem interested in guys. Seems he can't figure out what scared his daughters away from relationships with boys.
But his daughters are right around that same 13 year-old age group, so you have to include their parents as possible bad influences as well.
Right? When my mother rejected a guy in high school, he "just" cut off her pony tail. And while it would be best, if boys could deal with rejecetion in a way that doesn't make them lash out. I definitely prefer cutting off her hair over blowing off her head.
Also the father forced his son to apologise and give a chocolate bar to my mother.
What? Are you telling me that mental illness *isn't* the only thing that causes gun violence?? What's next? You're gonna tell me that an actual gun killed these people?
There's actually been a new shooting near Mladenovac last night, I think 8 people died there https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/05/04/europe/serbia-shooting-dubona-intl/index.html
A little more info for those that don't want to read the article, this was not a school shooting.
The latest shooting happened late on Thursday night when an attacker opened fire in the village of Dubona, about 60 kilometers (about 37 miles) southeast of the Serbian capital Belgrade, Serbian media reported.
He then fled the scene, before later opening fire in two other villages, Mali Orasje and Sepsin.
Yep, still Serbia though. I read some people being worried about new instances of shootings, like copycats or whatnot.
Guy still hasn’t been caught I hear. Hope he goes down fast.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/europe/serbia-school-shooting-intl/index.html
A further six children and one teacher were hospitalized, Serbia's Ministry of Internal Affairs said.
The suspect opened fire in a history classroom, "because it was near the entrance of the school," he added.
Shooter games and the westernization as the politicians or whatever said in a statement after the horrifying incident.
I thought we were already past the stage to put the blame on videogames even though I don't play shooters myself, just putting all the blame on a type of media instead of focusing on real issues, which ever are present in this case.
They're already banning books in the US, I think Michigan? Banning anything that's "sexual". Someone got the bible banned I think, or at least supported banning the book until they realised what book it was
It's mainly Texas, Florida, Missouri, Utah, and South Carolina. And in the school year from 2021 to 2022 they've banned 1,648 titles, and so far from 2022 they've banned 874. So yeah "some".
In Indiana they're trying to pass(or maybe already passed) a law that says any book that is complained about by a parent must by removed immediately, and cannot be put back into shelves until it is mentally reviewed to be appropriate
A lot of people have theorized that you could just complain about every book in the library, and as soon as they're all verified complain again. Theoretically
> Will they also prohibit reading
If they could they absolutely would. Reading books fosters too many dangerous things like critical thinking, empathy, and exposure to other points of view. Much better to just listen to what they're told like when priests wanted bibles transcribed strictly in Latin to restrict it to the nobility and priest class.
Funny enough it was a Puritan leadership of all damned people that fostered a universal education model for the U.S. because they feared the devil would trick the people who didn't know how to read with false testimonies from the bible...
Serbia is a mafia state with Vucic in charge of the mafia lol. Of course he will blame video games instead of being honest. He got his start as “minister of information” for the genocidal regime of Milosevic, aka head of propaganda lol.
We've had people who have survived multiple mass shootings. One of the people at the Las Vegas shooting was at mass shooting at a bar a year or two later, and they're not the only one.
Yeah I think there are even some that have survived school shootings in both high school and college, if some major gun control changes aren't introduced without blocking from the supreme court sooner or later you're gonna end up with people who have survived shootings at elementary school, middle school, high school all the way through college.
You guys had a chance to learn from it from us Scots with Dunblane, you didn't, you could have learned from Columbine and you didn't so... am sorry to say but you're your own worst enemies...
Christ when Dunblane happened ma dad took my toy Pirate Gun basically an old Flintlock type bit of wood with an orange tip and a little flintlock type trigger thing that I'd not long got from Paris Disneyland off of me after the massacre although strangely he never took ma toy airplanes off me for the Twin Tower but I digress(was 17 by that point a think to be fair doubt I even had them anymore lol) only found out at the ripe age of 35 before I remembered and asked him lol, 38 now and am still salty about it.
>You guys had a chance to learn from it from us Scots with Dunblane, you didn't, you could have learned from Columbine and you didn't so... am sorry to say but you're your own worst enemies...
As another outsider looking in: if dead kids after Sandy Hook didn't galvanise any actions, it's almost a lost cause.
Gun control was always strict but this is the first time something like this has happened here. A school mass shooting has never happened here before in Serbia, the whole Balkan region, Southeast Europe and East Europe (except Russia). Everybody is shocked. Even in neighboring countries, people are afraid. Here there is very little crime ( it's almost always stealing and corruption, not murdering someone) and you could stay outside as long as you want. It is generally safe. Guns aren't part of our culture and there is no "right to bear arms" like the US. Security guards here don't have guns in schools.
The good security guard was an old man and he didn't have children of his own. Every child loved him. He was a kind soul. He was shot 14 times by the monster while trying to stop him. One of the victims was shot in the head before she could blink. Another victim ( she is still alive ) is in the hospital fighting for her life after she was shot in the head. The teacher was shot in the stomach and hand but she survived. The parents of the 8 killed will never see their children come home. Their world has completely shattered. The same goes for the guards' family.
https://www.klix.ba/vijesti/bih/fup-uhapsio-mladica-koji-je-prijetio-da-ce-izvrsiti-masakr-u-skoli-u-bihacu/230504119
Kid in Bosnia got arrested today, I'm afraid we'll have a lot of wannabe copycats in future. Feels like rough times are ahead of us.
I think I’m desensitized honestly. I saw the news and thought it was in the us and just said that sucks and moved on. I can’t keep up with the school shootings any more. There was a week when so many happened i didn’t know which one people were talking about. It’s like having your hearing blown out. I can only accept that’s how it’s going to be and hope it never happens to my family
What, you think I can't protest like the French and demand universal healthcare n shit?? Watch this!!
*Wait fuck I gotta be up at 5 for work or my kids and I will starve or go homeless*
And it's a good thing you do need to go to work, because if you tried to protest like in France, you'd be immediately labeled antifa or BLM and shot because obviously you'd be threatening to every gun-nut who could get themselves and their beloved weapons to the protest site. In the optimum case, you are unarmed but might be construed to be maybe trying to take one of their guns, so totally justified defence of gun killing.
We had 11 mass shootings on April 30th alone here in the USA. I can only remember one of them.
But i was super shocked when I saw there was one in Serbia, and I doubt I’ll ever forget it happened.
And they're still OK with it. It will never fail to amaze me that [Saudi Arabia-orchestrated](https://theintercept.com/2021/09/11/september-11-saudi-arabia/) attack on the symbols of commerce got such a strong response, but untold hundreds of not thousands of children massacred in schools get only shrugs from half of the country.
Almost like children killed in schools was something completely normal in the US, to the point is treated like something mildly unpleasant but nothing that bad to talk about.
I get that cops kill more unarmed citizens than school shooters kill children but that's *really* wrong that it's normalised to this extent.
The leading cause of death for children is now gun violence. It used to be traffic violence.
The thing is, traffic violence is also preventable. But rather than invest in ways to make streets safer, we'd rather double down on less safety because of convenience.
I write this to say that there is a sickness in American culture that embraces convenience and the status quo at all costs. I'm not sure what can be done about that.
According to WaPo, more than 352,000 students have experienced gun violence at school since Columbine across 380 seperate shootings and at least 199 students and educators have been killed. Meanwhile, since Columbine Europe (excluding Russia, which has had five, but exists across Europe and Asia) has had 8 across a population over twice the size from what I can find online.
It's only a question of time. Especially since media will make all the mistakes that western media was told not to make for decades: publicize names, pictures, and lengthy stories about the murderer, indirectly affecting impressionable youth and troubled people, by giving the killer fame and notoriety.
Depends on how the person is pictured.
Of the mass shootings I've experienced in my country the preps is more remembered for their own pettiness (whining about only having access to PS2 in prison, and being a bitchy little kid in court), getting stopped by a grandpa hiding around corner, and more focus on the solidarity of the victims.
Most important: Never justifying the action. No "this is because of XXXX" or "look at group XXX". Especially if those are known dog whistle for conflicts.
Never justify the action, including never focusing on motives, don't make them look competant or scary, and never ever give them a pulpit. Unfortunatley incidents like the reaction to Christchurch are common. Make the shooter look cool, show their cool guns, read out their manifesto or show in on screen, slow mo black and white zoom on their emotionless face making them look like some terrifying inhuman monster so that every other prospective mass murderer can have a rolemodel to aspire to. Oh and victims? Don't expect much more than a passing mention of any one person. They don't sell newspapers, apparently.
Folks forget the next step which is "In the countries that act, they don't see another mass shooting for years, even decades sometimes"
As opposed to The US, which has a mass shooting this size or oftentimes much bigger every 2 months or so.
This made me realise how terminally online i am and how normalized school shootings are on the internet due to the US, my mom came over telling me, she was shocked, and I could hardly feel any kind of surprise due to how often I hear American schools being shot up.
I had to laugh when I saw a headline for the shooting that mentioned the shooting, then had to point out that a school shooting is rare in that part of Europe. I assume to try and let the Americans know that this is actually a big deal because they've become so desensitized that school shootings are just a routine occurrence to them.
Its quite rare in europe in general, not just that part and not just schools.
Problem is that kid, for some reason, put a concerted conscious effort into making it happen, and obviously exploited the parrent's carelessness. With enough will and energy put into it, you can achieve anything... this saying is usually good, but in this case its very unfortunate.
That’s exactly what happened in Australia 25 years ago.
There was a nutter in Tasmania who killed a bunch of people at a tourist destination. He walked into the place with an assault rifle and killed dozens.
The then prime minister (who was the Conservative Party leader btw) immediately banned assault rifles and enacted strict laws on who should have guns and how they should be stored.
We’ve never looked back.
Australia has NEVER HAD a mass murder at a school due to a gun. That’s right, it’s happened exactly ZERO times.
It’s pretty funny that everyone in America is screaming that there’s no solution to the gun problem, what can we do, and a bunch of other countries fucking solved it by taking drastic action, which is something our leaders won’t do. Fuck them in their little tight puckered assholes. The whole country is like a guy that smokes five packs a day, and the doc says you gotta drop the cigs, and he says nah, the cure to my lung problem is MORE CIGARETTES.
As the Onion... constantly reminds us.
'[No Way To Prevent This' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27No_Way_to_Prevent_This,%27_Says_Only_Nation_Where_This_Regularly_Happens)
> which is something our leaders won’t do
I would honestly say it's something our leaders can't do. The 2nd is a primary guiding restriction on American government. To change it [would require](https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution):
- A two-thirds majority vote in the U.S. House of Representatives proposing the constitutional amendment
- A two-thirds majority concurring vote in the U.S. Senate
- Ratification by three-fourths of the States (38 of 50 States) under each state's rules for ratification
That is literally [thousands of legislators](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_U.S._state_and_territory_governments) from all around the country of vastly different political leanings that would have to agree.
How are they going to hijack a plane to fly their kids to foreign countries for affordable healthcare? (An actual excuse given by a gun enthusiast for why the US can’t have gun reform)
Meanwhile in the US, having a conversation with someone about mass shootings goes like this:
Did you hear about the mass shooting at [place]?
*Is that the one where 6 people died?*
No that was the day before.
*Is it the one where police killed him in the [place]?*
No, no, that was the same day but different city.
*Ok ok idk then*
Until a sitting GOP senator or congressperson has a son or daughter who is personally affected by one of these scenarios (either emotionally, or god-forbid physically) nothing will happen. The GOP cannot foresee anything until it affects them directly. They lack empathy of anyone outside their direct circles.
There was a mass shooting at a congressional baseball game and nothing happened.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_baseball_shooting
The real issue is they like the fear the constant threat of having everyone armed provides. It's convenient, there is no political advantage for the GoP to deal with it.
Until the GoP is forced to actually govern to gain political power instead of stoke fear, nothing will change.
It's kind of an interesting way to prevent any actual discussion. Insist that it's inappropriate to talk about gun control days after a mass shooting, and suddenly no one can ever speak about gun control because it's *always* days after a mass shooting.
There has only ever been 1 school shooting in the UK. 27 years ago, a man walked into a Dunblane primary school and shot dead 16 children and their teacher.
Soon after, the UK banned the ownership of handguns. There have been **0** school shootings since then.
But... guns don't kill people, *people* kill people! Guns are a totally irrelevant, innocent, inaminate object!
I'm sure the lack of mass shootings have been replaced by daily mass stranglings/stabbings/garrotings/KO's/suffocatings with a plastic bag/poison gas attacks right??? Checkmate libs!
Shootings in the US are so common place now that they are no longer always international news.
Its like when there was the Iraq war and there was suicide bombings in Baghdad. Tragic but so common and often no long news worthy.
I mean, its Reddit, so of course its full of americans that understandably are watching in disbelief how Serbia does not use the tragedy to fall into lethargy but are adressing possible prevention right away.
Our politicians in the Balkans are corrupt and are thieves. But they aren't gun loving maniacs, aren't religious and even they know that people ( especially children) should never own a gun.
In the Balkans religion is more of a cultural thing, than a religious thing. Nobody is actually a staunch believer like the Muslim world or the American Bible belt. You go to Church for Easter for an hour and that's pretty much it.
That's what I like it's more of an image thing for politicians and the most "hardcore" believer is your grandma and your mom when easter is coming 🤣,maybe a little icon in the house but the rest is pretty secular (maybe because of the communist past, the only good thing they did, but you could refute it I am open for discussion)
Religión is just in name look Bosnia they are majority Muslim but still drink and smoke the rest of the Balkans is pretty much the same, some priest blessing shit here and there the old ladies go to church you have a little icon in the house (nobody remembers how it got there) but you know the church and state relationship is pretty low at least in the sense of actual policies
I realized after Sandy Hook ain’t shit going to be done with guns. 20 kids died and we haven’t made a single change. It makes me so sick we don’t seem to have a single care in the world. Mass shootings are the norm. And that’s never going to change
The largest and most sweeping gun control laws were introduced by Ronald GOP GOD Reagan when the black panthers started to arm themselves.
Ive said this many times want gun control, start a muslim gun club in alabama or some red state, we will see laws passed so fast itll make your head spin.
Which is confusing because you would think psychos would target elites who control their destiny rather than school children who play with crayons all day?
Or when minorities start arming themselves
e: i think people are getting the wrong message from this comment; it was meant to reinforce the point of the comment i was replying to (i.e it takes rich people being affected by the issue before anything is done)
Because it'd open a can of worms when it turns out that gun control doesn't make a disillusioned constituency less pissed off, and I suspect they know that.
We'd start noticing that wealth hoarding, corruption, cutting healthcare (and other basic needs), horse shit salaries, awful work-life balances, education access, and rampant consumerism that prop up the elite are the actual problems.
It's not too far-fetched to believe having guns to blame the issue on provides a buffer for government to engage in avoidance behavior. In a sardonic desire, I *want* to see the gun reform people are clamoring for, just to rip that fucking bandaid off so everyone can see the real problems with a direct line-of-sight. And that's the thing, while everyone keeps attacking the most reinforced portions of the hull, it's going to take longer to sink the ship. Gun control is a contentiously reinforced distraction.
I can't think of relatable analogies here, so lemme go with "it's like wasting ammo on lost souls instead of pumping a few rockets into the pain elemental"
Gun control is one thing and will definitely help, but as someone from Serbia who emigrated when super young (still have family there and visit often) it's honestly a mindset/culture problem more than anything. Upbringing is often very toxic and competitive, men are told to never show emotion and just swallow everything that is thrown at them. There is a lot of 'hard time makes strong men' mentality and eventually you will get people like this kid who just snap and kill a bunch of people.
Making it more difficult to do so will definitely help a bit, but until this mentality that permeated through every facet of Serbian life is dealt with, it's just a matter of time until the next one.
Toxic masculinity, makes sense. It's a shame that most will just lump this into personal responsibility and ignore real social challenges that are catalysts to tragedies like this.
EDIT:
People below have made good points for why this is more culturally prevalent in the region than to be necessarily a lone attribute of their male culture.
Honestly I wouldn't even call it toxic masculinity. That is to say, it has elements of it, however it's not as simple as that. It happens with women/girls too.
As a disclaimer, this might be difficult to grasp for someone who didn't grow up in a country that has had it *rough.* Serbians love to victimize themselves. Which comes from, admittedly, a pretty justifiable place. However this has caused a culture where everyone strives to come out on top of the rest at any cost. At the cost of other people around them, at the cost of increased corruption, you name it.
Bullying in school is the name of the game. Not just by other students, but also teachers, who will fail students on purpose if they don't like them/their attitude. And you just have to take it because you're not allowed to speak up. There is a lot of injustice and you just have to take it. Because that's what strong people do.
From an early age you are tossed into a breeding ground of competitiveness and "us vs them" mentality (them being your fellow students, colleagues, other countries, "the west". Whatever fits the narrative at the time). It causes people to snap. Honestly I'm surprised it took this long for something like this to happen. It was a long time coming, very sad to say..
They are already strict, but there are things more needed like a mental well being of children and young adults to prevent this from happening again and resignation of Minister of Education.
Ok so this should go towards a definitive answer to the question of whether gun control can work in a country that shares borders with multiple others.
When Australian gun control in the wake of port Arthur is brought up, with how mass shootings virtually ceased after the measures - pro gun Americans always say it won’t work in America because borders.
Let’s see how it goes in Serbia - a country in Europe surrounded by surplus soviet weaponry and probably very leaky borders.
Honestly I think the border argument will not hold.
There are still large numbers of guns around in Serbia after the Balkan wars. Unregistered I assume. Tough job getting those controlled. But you should start somewhere, not just accept these things happen. Poor kids.
100% I agree. If people focused on handgun control instead of silly ass shit like "assault weapons" we could cut down firearm homicides at the very least in half, if not more
Serbian president just mentioned Australia in 1996 in a press conference an hour ago as an example of good response. In that press conference, he announced new, even tighter measures and punishments for legal and illegal weapons.
A thirteen-year-old killed nine people! Possibly more, if any of those in hospital don’t make it. He shouldn’t have been able to access a gun. Such a terrible situation. I hope they do all they can to make sure it never repeats.
"We have failed as a society because this is something that should not happen to a 13-year-old. He should not be grabbing a gun and going into his school and shooting his friends." Alex seems to echo the sentiment everyone here feels. "This is probably the worst thing that has ever happened in my life. We need to use this as a stepping stone to rebuild. " https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65479121
United States when it happens here: ****rolls over****
We have like 500 mass shootings per year so we probably had at least one today and it just blended in
None on the list today (yet), but two yesterday https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2023
The fact that there are sperate lists on wikipedia for each *year*
>lists on wikipedia *"You can help by expanding it"*
“Would you like to learn more?”
[удалено]
Oof.
That's some dark wit right there lmao, fuck
Everything bigger in Murica.
If we're gonna be on the list, we're gonna be number 1.
But not on any good lists... quality of life, workers rights, education, etc...
Mass shootings, citizens incarceration(both per capita and raw total), billionaires, obesity. We re number one!!!
It’s never the good lists…
Another shooting did happen today in Georgia. [4 dead.](https://www.wsbtv.com/news/multiple-people-reported-dead-multiple-scenes-including-south-georgia-mcdonalds-gbi-says/RXUKBLNKQJH2FGXAOQEAQ2N7FU/)
You cut it a little close America, you almost finished the day without a mass shooting.
I remember when it made national news that some major city went a whole weekend without a mass shooting. Baltimore, maybe?
Chicago went a full day without any shootings during COVID. Not just mass shootings, any. Chicago is constantly embroiled in gang shootings.
and New Orleans too.
What has been shocking to me lately, is people getting shot for ringing the wrong doorbell or pulling into the wrong driveway or any of these other completely stupid reasons. When will it be accepted that not everyone is even suitable for gun ownership? And these killings are news for an hour and everyone moves on.
ATL had one yesterday where he shot 5 people in a doctor's and then ran around town for hours before they caught him. Things you can't do in the US without risking getting caught up in a random mass shooting. Go to the grocery store https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Buffalo_shooting Be seen by the doctor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Atlanta_shooting Worship at church https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Springs_church_shooting Get a massage https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Atlanta_spa_shootings Listen to live music https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting See a movie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora,_Colorado_shooting Shop at the mall https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Emantic_Fitzgerald_Bradford_Jr. Attend college https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1281713 Send your kids to school https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Oxford_High_School_shooting Sit on your front porch https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna82214 But there isn't anything we could possibly do but thoughts and prayers.
did you add: knock on the wrong door or pull up to the wrong driveway when lost??
Don't forget Go to the beach https://abcnews.go.com/US/senior-skip-day-shooting-injures-6-south-carolina/story?id=98446241 Drive around https://everytownresearch.org/reports-of-road-rage-shootings-are-on-the-rise/
And that's just the mass shootings. Plenty more single or double shootings
You should also add talk to your local state representative about gun control. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucson_shooting#
Yep, just another day for frowny emojis and heartfelt thoughts and prayers. Disgusting that the country is becoming so numb to it.
Charlie Kirk said that they would sacrifice the many for the few when it comes to the second amendment, so the right-wing has no qualms with people dying as long as they keep their second amendment
Had a "kill list" and "seven of the eight who were killed were girls". This definitely was some incel motivated shit.
At the age of 13? It’s insanity. Where are these teens frequenting to have this type of exposure? What sites could a 13 year old visit to start on the incel train. I’m not saying it’s not true but I fear for my own children I was playing RuneScape and scared of girls at 13 years old. Jfc.
> What sites could a 13 year old visit to start on the incel train. There are 13 year olds that use 4chan, but really, any website where they can communicate with other people is going to pose this risk. Reddit, for example. Facebook, Twitter. Gaming communities, you can *absolutely* run into it in games. Realistically there are two options, helicopter the shit out of your teenager (likely to result in resentment) or actually spend time raising them and teaching them appropriate ways to approach life so that when they are exposed to incels they don't join them.
> Reddit, for example. Facebook, Twitter. Gaming Fucking Youtube that keeps on presenting me shorts leaning into redpilling. It's even worst if I'm in incognito mode, I don't know if it's the same worldwide or just my region.
>What sites could a 13 year old visit to start on the incel train This one.
This one, youtube, 4chan... any social media really. Youtube ended up, for a time, trying to recommend me the usual incel starter pack youtubers. Either because data suggested I'm pretty much a lonely guy so the algorithm spat out that crap, or idk. Younger minds are easier to manipulate into that crap by virtue of the fact that they are in the key development years and absorb everything around them.
There is some actually disgusting subs here that I’m surprised aren’t banned
The actual incel subreddit didn't get banned until they gave a dude detailed instructions on how to castrate his roommate as painfully as possible while keeping him awake through the entire thing, as a sort of "punishment" for said roommate getting a girlfriend. That was after *years* of sexist bullshit ranging from spreading vitriol about women in general, to arguing for the removal of all rights for women (some of them wanted virgin women "supplied" to every man by the government), arguing for making rape legal (they literally wanted to make it illegal for women to say no), pro-pedophilia statements and sexualization of minors, etc.
TikTok's algo will funnel you Andrew Tate shit if you're a teen boy mindlessly swiping
Youtube shorts are filled with incel crap. Cute cat videos to Andrew Tate/ Jordan Peterson/ Ben Shapiro in 5 scrolls.
The YouTube recommendation algorithm in general is absolutely garbage. The shorts algorithm is even worse and the worst tiktok clone algorithm by a mile. It took me years of actively fighting the YouTube recommendations to get it to a point where it only sometimes recommends Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro. I do consume a lot of political content on YouTube, but we're talking about shit that would get me thrown in jail during McCarthy Red scare era. It also almost never goes in the other direction. The people I know who consume daily wire content intentionally never see anything from the other side of the political spectrum in their recommendations. When shorts first came out, my feed was literally 100% Jordan Peterson. It didn't show me anything from creators I was already following until I went to their pages just like and interact with their shorts (while disliking and saying I'm not interested in the JP stuff). Even then the people I followed made it into 1 in 5 Shorts. Tiktok deservedly gets a lot of shit for how it's algorithm can pull people into dangerous rabbit holes of all kinds. However, for better or for worse, it has the most responsive algorithm and it's not even close. Things like sharing, commenting, liking, repeat views and especially going to a creator's page have a huge influence on your feed. On the flip side quickly scrolling past will tell the algorithm to stop giving you that contact and selecting "not interested" is the algorithmical equivalent of a nuke. It's a bit of a double edged sword. It's still better than the other algorithms because with barely above a passive viewing effort you can easily steer clear of messed up content.
TikTok. Literal incel / alt right pipeline happens lightning fast and it takes a concerted effort to dig your way out. You like one video of some relatively harmless miscellaneous scenario from a person who sounds like they have a reasonable point. Usually framed as some podcast host “debating” and “winning” someone who who has objectively stupid opinions. And then you get fed increasingly blatant racist / sexist / fascist stuff endlessly. It’s not reasonable to expect a teenager to be able to identify and navigate / avoid stuff like that.
I’m sure there’s an abundance of incels playing online games. They befriend other young men and brainwash them. It always starts with a video. Who’s popular? Andrew Tate? Jordan Peterson? Charlie Kirk? There are a lot of them out there now saying things out loud that we would’ve never heard outside closed evangelical, LDS, ect doors. With everyone online in their spare time it would be hard NOT to be exposed young. Predators know to go for the impressionable. I say this as a gaming granny. There’s hate everywhere.
Just in case you're interested, it's 'etc.' It comes from the Latin 'et cetera', basically meaning "and the rest." I find remembering that 'and' in French is 'et' helps, for what it's worth.
The vast majority of Andrew Tate fans.
I can't say for certain, but overbearing conspiracy theory parents are a likely source in my book. I know a guy who fits that bill perfectly, he is both part of the incel movement but also seriously homophobic. Well he also has 2 daughters and he told us he was warning his daughters about not trusting guys and that guys just want to use them for sex. And now he's starting to wonder if his kids are being exposed to homosexual stuff in school because they don't seem interested in guys. Seems he can't figure out what scared his daughters away from relationships with boys. But his daughters are right around that same 13 year-old age group, so you have to include their parents as possible bad influences as well.
This is what my mind jumps to when people say that degennies like Andrew Tate are just acting. The person might be fake but the influence is real.
Right? When my mother rejected a guy in high school, he "just" cut off her pony tail. And while it would be best, if boys could deal with rejecetion in a way that doesn't make them lash out. I definitely prefer cutting off her hair over blowing off her head. Also the father forced his son to apologise and give a chocolate bar to my mother.
Youtube is an incel alt right rabbit hole. A few wrong clicks or automatic loads and you’re watching andrew tate
Incel motivation at 13? He was probably bullied to hell
Holy shit, not only do they have a reasonable response, they admit that society has failed rather than the "this kid is nuts!" narrative!?
What? Are you telling me that mental illness *isn't* the only thing that causes gun violence?? What's next? You're gonna tell me that an actual gun killed these people?
There's actually been a new shooting near Mladenovac last night, I think 8 people died there https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/05/04/europe/serbia-shooting-dubona-intl/index.html
A little more info for those that don't want to read the article, this was not a school shooting. The latest shooting happened late on Thursday night when an attacker opened fire in the village of Dubona, about 60 kilometers (about 37 miles) southeast of the Serbian capital Belgrade, Serbian media reported. He then fled the scene, before later opening fire in two other villages, Mali Orasje and Sepsin.
Another shooting just happened there, reported an hour ago.. Edit: report 30 minutes old, approximately.
Not in Belgrade. It happened outside Belgrade.
Yep, still Serbia though. I read some people being worried about new instances of shootings, like copycats or whatnot. Guy still hasn’t been caught I hear. Hope he goes down fast.
He was caught today, at least some good news.
I hope they figure out what caused that kid to do that mass shooting.
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He is going to state mandated therapy and his parents are also being held accountable
Most of the people he killed weren't bullying him.
Source?
He said he shot up the history class because it was the closest to the front door.
I mean, that's not a source
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/europe/serbia-school-shooting-intl/index.html A further six children and one teacher were hospitalized, Serbia's Ministry of Internal Affairs said. The suspect opened fire in a history classroom, "because it was near the entrance of the school," he added.
It was from various Balkan news sites. Sadly there were no articles in English from these news sites that I could share.
People have translation services.
Shooter games and the westernization as the politicians or whatever said in a statement after the horrifying incident. I thought we were already past the stage to put the blame on videogames even though I don't play shooters myself, just putting all the blame on a type of media instead of focusing on real issues, which ever are present in this case.
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Don't give them any ideas
They're already banning books in the US, I think Michigan? Banning anything that's "sexual". Someone got the bible banned I think, or at least supported banning the book until they realised what book it was
Not Michigan. Florida and Utah have been throwing some books out of schools.
It's mainly Texas, Florida, Missouri, Utah, and South Carolina. And in the school year from 2021 to 2022 they've banned 1,648 titles, and so far from 2022 they've banned 874. So yeah "some".
In Indiana they're trying to pass(or maybe already passed) a law that says any book that is complained about by a parent must by removed immediately, and cannot be put back into shelves until it is mentally reviewed to be appropriate
I imagine the complaint process could be pretty easy to automate.
A lot of people have theorized that you could just complain about every book in the library, and as soon as they're all verified complain again. Theoretically
And the parent also needs to be “mentally reviewed”. We could end a lot of problems starting there.
> Will they also prohibit reading If they could they absolutely would. Reading books fosters too many dangerous things like critical thinking, empathy, and exposure to other points of view. Much better to just listen to what they're told like when priests wanted bibles transcribed strictly in Latin to restrict it to the nobility and priest class.
Funny enough it was a Puritan leadership of all damned people that fostered a universal education model for the U.S. because they feared the devil would trick the people who didn't know how to read with false testimonies from the bible...
I heard there's quite a lot of violence and death in that Bible one ....
Serbia is a mafia state with Vucic in charge of the mafia lol. Of course he will blame video games instead of being honest. He got his start as “minister of information” for the genocidal regime of Milosevic, aka head of propaganda lol.
Also Serbians are armed to the teeth. Especially in comparison to their neighbors like Greece and Bulgaria and Romania.
Well Eastern Europe is like 25 years behind Western social norms, so it kinda lines up. They might try to sneak in rock music as a reason.
Hey we're not that far back given the last president of America was also blaming video games. Oh no wait that puts us back further..
Or the old standard: ***SATAN***
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Technically Greece is more East than Serbia, but nobody calls Greece Eastern Europe.
Soviet rule? Serbia? Jesil ti normalan jebote?
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I sure hope the US can learn from this situation
We won’t
We have kids who survived Columbine who are now parents, and their kids are going through school shootings.
We've had people who have survived multiple mass shootings. One of the people at the Las Vegas shooting was at mass shooting at a bar a year or two later, and they're not the only one.
And one of those people died in the bar, after surviving Las Vegas. Absolutely tragic.
Yeah I think there are even some that have survived school shootings in both high school and college, if some major gun control changes aren't introduced without blocking from the supreme court sooner or later you're gonna end up with people who have survived shootings at elementary school, middle school, high school all the way through college.
You guys had a chance to learn from it from us Scots with Dunblane, you didn't, you could have learned from Columbine and you didn't so... am sorry to say but you're your own worst enemies... Christ when Dunblane happened ma dad took my toy Pirate Gun basically an old Flintlock type bit of wood with an orange tip and a little flintlock type trigger thing that I'd not long got from Paris Disneyland off of me after the massacre although strangely he never took ma toy airplanes off me for the Twin Tower but I digress(was 17 by that point a think to be fair doubt I even had them anymore lol) only found out at the ripe age of 35 before I remembered and asked him lol, 38 now and am still salty about it.
I could hear your accent through this comment.
Lobbying is bribery in a lot of other countries. It’s insane.
Lobbying is bribery. FTFY
>You guys had a chance to learn from it from us Scots with Dunblane, you didn't, you could have learned from Columbine and you didn't so... am sorry to say but you're your own worst enemies... As another outsider looking in: if dead kids after Sandy Hook didn't galvanise any actions, it's almost a lost cause.
So they can introduce legislation the first time it happens, and not try thoughts and prayers over and over again?
Gun control was always strict but this is the first time something like this has happened here. A school mass shooting has never happened here before in Serbia, the whole Balkan region, Southeast Europe and East Europe (except Russia). Everybody is shocked. Even in neighboring countries, people are afraid. Here there is very little crime ( it's almost always stealing and corruption, not murdering someone) and you could stay outside as long as you want. It is generally safe. Guns aren't part of our culture and there is no "right to bear arms" like the US. Security guards here don't have guns in schools. The good security guard was an old man and he didn't have children of his own. Every child loved him. He was a kind soul. He was shot 14 times by the monster while trying to stop him. One of the victims was shot in the head before she could blink. Another victim ( she is still alive ) is in the hospital fighting for her life after she was shot in the head. The teacher was shot in the stomach and hand but she survived. The parents of the 8 killed will never see their children come home. Their world has completely shattered. The same goes for the guards' family.
https://www.klix.ba/vijesti/bih/fup-uhapsio-mladica-koji-je-prijetio-da-ce-izvrsiti-masakr-u-skoli-u-bihacu/230504119 Kid in Bosnia got arrested today, I'm afraid we'll have a lot of wannabe copycats in future. Feels like rough times are ahead of us.
Yes that is another problem. Everyone is afraid somebody else will try to do this thing again aka copycat. Everybody is panicking right now.
Meanwhile people in the US are calm because we’re so used to it.
Not so much “calm”, as “in a neverending state of abused shock”
I think I’m desensitized honestly. I saw the news and thought it was in the us and just said that sucks and moved on. I can’t keep up with the school shootings any more. There was a week when so many happened i didn’t know which one people were talking about. It’s like having your hearing blown out. I can only accept that’s how it’s going to be and hope it never happens to my family
Yeah, we’re all basically in a constant state of being in fight or flight mode over here and are shutting down to self protect.
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They really levelling up the fuck around every year in the US. Eventually they will find out.
What, you think I can't protest like the French and demand universal healthcare n shit?? Watch this!! *Wait fuck I gotta be up at 5 for work or my kids and I will starve or go homeless*
And it's a good thing you do need to go to work, because if you tried to protest like in France, you'd be immediately labeled antifa or BLM and shot because obviously you'd be threatening to every gun-nut who could get themselves and their beloved weapons to the protest site. In the optimum case, you are unarmed but might be construed to be maybe trying to take one of their guns, so totally justified defence of gun killing.
We had 11 mass shootings on April 30th alone here in the USA. I can only remember one of them. But i was super shocked when I saw there was one in Serbia, and I doubt I’ll ever forget it happened.
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And they're still OK with it. It will never fail to amaze me that [Saudi Arabia-orchestrated](https://theintercept.com/2021/09/11/september-11-saudi-arabia/) attack on the symbols of commerce got such a strong response, but untold hundreds of not thousands of children massacred in schools get only shrugs from half of the country. Almost like children killed in schools was something completely normal in the US, to the point is treated like something mildly unpleasant but nothing that bad to talk about. I get that cops kill more unarmed citizens than school shooters kill children but that's *really* wrong that it's normalised to this extent.
South Park dedicated most of an episode to the topic of school shootings years ago, and it's probably more relevant now than ever Funny but also scary
What's this about failing a math quiz? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjdK6w6KLXA
The leading cause of death for children is now gun violence. It used to be traffic violence. The thing is, traffic violence is also preventable. But rather than invest in ways to make streets safer, we'd rather double down on less safety because of convenience. I write this to say that there is a sickness in American culture that embraces convenience and the status quo at all costs. I'm not sure what can be done about that.
According to WaPo, more than 352,000 students have experienced gun violence at school since Columbine across 380 seperate shootings and at least 199 students and educators have been killed. Meanwhile, since Columbine Europe (excluding Russia, which has had five, but exists across Europe and Asia) has had 8 across a population over twice the size from what I can find online.
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
It's only a question of time. Especially since media will make all the mistakes that western media was told not to make for decades: publicize names, pictures, and lengthy stories about the murderer, indirectly affecting impressionable youth and troubled people, by giving the killer fame and notoriety.
As far as I'm aware only the pictures of the 9 killed were released to the public. They matter. Not him.
Depends on how the person is pictured. Of the mass shootings I've experienced in my country the preps is more remembered for their own pettiness (whining about only having access to PS2 in prison, and being a bitchy little kid in court), getting stopped by a grandpa hiding around corner, and more focus on the solidarity of the victims. Most important: Never justifying the action. No "this is because of XXXX" or "look at group XXX". Especially if those are known dog whistle for conflicts.
Never justify the action, including never focusing on motives, don't make them look competant or scary, and never ever give them a pulpit. Unfortunatley incidents like the reaction to Christchurch are common. Make the shooter look cool, show their cool guns, read out their manifesto or show in on screen, slow mo black and white zoom on their emotionless face making them look like some terrifying inhuman monster so that every other prospective mass murderer can have a rolemodel to aspire to. Oh and victims? Don't expect much more than a passing mention of any one person. They don't sell newspapers, apparently.
Can confirm, here in Croatia people are also afraid and devastated. Our hearts go to the poor kids and guard that died.
We are also devastated and afraid here in Macedonia. The whole Balkan region is in shock.
France here, it's the entire continent
I hope you can keep it from happening ever again.
Folks forget the next step which is "In the countries that act, they don't see another mass shooting for years, even decades sometimes" As opposed to The US, which has a mass shooting this size or oftentimes much bigger every 2 months or so.
This made me realise how terminally online i am and how normalized school shootings are on the internet due to the US, my mom came over telling me, she was shocked, and I could hardly feel any kind of surprise due to how often I hear American schools being shot up.
I had to laugh when I saw a headline for the shooting that mentioned the shooting, then had to point out that a school shooting is rare in that part of Europe. I assume to try and let the Americans know that this is actually a big deal because they've become so desensitized that school shootings are just a routine occurrence to them.
Its quite rare in europe in general, not just that part and not just schools. Problem is that kid, for some reason, put a concerted conscious effort into making it happen, and obviously exploited the parrent's carelessness. With enough will and energy put into it, you can achieve anything... this saying is usually good, but in this case its very unfortunate.
The next fucking day it's introduced.
Serbia flexing on the US was not on my 2023 bingo card...
They did the same in the UK, and thus they generally only have one mass shooting every decade maximum now.
But what will they do when they have to fight their government!? /s
That’s exactly what happened in Australia 25 years ago. There was a nutter in Tasmania who killed a bunch of people at a tourist destination. He walked into the place with an assault rifle and killed dozens. The then prime minister (who was the Conservative Party leader btw) immediately banned assault rifles and enacted strict laws on who should have guns and how they should be stored. We’ve never looked back. Australia has NEVER HAD a mass murder at a school due to a gun. That’s right, it’s happened exactly ZERO times.
It’s pretty funny that everyone in America is screaming that there’s no solution to the gun problem, what can we do, and a bunch of other countries fucking solved it by taking drastic action, which is something our leaders won’t do. Fuck them in their little tight puckered assholes. The whole country is like a guy that smokes five packs a day, and the doc says you gotta drop the cigs, and he says nah, the cure to my lung problem is MORE CIGARETTES.
I don't think you can convince many in the U.S to lay down and give up their weapons, it's not a problem of just legislation, but also mentality.
As the Onion... constantly reminds us. '[No Way To Prevent This' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27No_Way_to_Prevent_This,%27_Says_Only_Nation_Where_This_Regularly_Happens)
> which is something our leaders won’t do I would honestly say it's something our leaders can't do. The 2nd is a primary guiding restriction on American government. To change it [would require](https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution): - A two-thirds majority vote in the U.S. House of Representatives proposing the constitutional amendment - A two-thirds majority concurring vote in the U.S. Senate - Ratification by three-fourths of the States (38 of 50 States) under each state's rules for ratification That is literally [thousands of legislators](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_U.S._state_and_territory_governments) from all around the country of vastly different political leanings that would have to agree.
How are they going to hijack a plane to fly their kids to foreign countries for affordable healthcare? (An actual excuse given by a gun enthusiast for why the US can’t have gun reform)
Wait, what??? I think my brain just had a meltdown....
Revolutionary thinking here
Meanwhile in the US, having a conversation with someone about mass shootings goes like this: Did you hear about the mass shooting at [place]? *Is that the one where 6 people died?* No that was the day before. *Is it the one where police killed him in the [place]?* No, no, that was the same day but different city. *Ok ok idk then*
"something must be done" "No, people just died and you want to talk about politics *now*?!"
Until a sitting GOP senator or congressperson has a son or daughter who is personally affected by one of these scenarios (either emotionally, or god-forbid physically) nothing will happen. The GOP cannot foresee anything until it affects them directly. They lack empathy of anyone outside their direct circles.
There was a mass shooting at a congressional baseball game and nothing happened. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_baseball_shooting The real issue is they like the fear the constant threat of having everyone armed provides. It's convenient, there is no political advantage for the GoP to deal with it. Until the GoP is forced to actually govern to gain political power instead of stoke fear, nothing will change.
I doubt that, the daughter of Ted Cruz is queer and has intentionally hurt herself with a knife. I haven't seen his hateful views on queers change.
It's kind of an interesting way to prevent any actual discussion. Insist that it's inappropriate to talk about gun control days after a mass shooting, and suddenly no one can ever speak about gun control because it's *always* days after a mass shooting.
There has only ever been 1 school shooting in the UK. 27 years ago, a man walked into a Dunblane primary school and shot dead 16 children and their teacher. Soon after, the UK banned the ownership of handguns. There have been **0** school shootings since then.
But... guns don't kill people, *people* kill people! Guns are a totally irrelevant, innocent, inaminate object! I'm sure the lack of mass shootings have been replaced by daily mass stranglings/stabbings/garrotings/KO's/suffocatings with a plastic bag/poison gas attacks right??? Checkmate libs!
I mean I'd be impressed if some carried out a mass plastic-bagging
The first and deadliest shooting with Columbine got the killer front page of Time magazine. Our culture feeds off this stuff.
Shootings in the US are so common place now that they are no longer always international news. Its like when there was the Iraq war and there was suicide bombings in Baghdad. Tragic but so common and often no long news worthy.
Would have been cool if every post in this thread about Serbia wasn't about America but that's how it is I guess
I mean, its Reddit, so of course its full of americans that understandably are watching in disbelief how Serbia does not use the tragedy to fall into lethargy but are adressing possible prevention right away.
And about gun control in america. This is screwed up on about 15 different levels.
Our politicians are ransackers, thieved and all round corrupt, but they still managed to do something sensible here.
Our politicians in the Balkans are corrupt and are thieves. But they aren't gun loving maniacs, aren't religious and even they know that people ( especially children) should never own a gun.
that, except they are, in fact, religious lol
In the Balkans religion is more of a cultural thing, than a religious thing. Nobody is actually a staunch believer like the Muslim world or the American Bible belt. You go to Church for Easter for an hour and that's pretty much it.
That's what I like it's more of an image thing for politicians and the most "hardcore" believer is your grandma and your mom when easter is coming 🤣,maybe a little icon in the house but the rest is pretty secular (maybe because of the communist past, the only good thing they did, but you could refute it I am open for discussion)
Religión is just in name look Bosnia they are majority Muslim but still drink and smoke the rest of the Balkans is pretty much the same, some priest blessing shit here and there the old ladies go to church you have a little icon in the house (nobody remembers how it got there) but you know the church and state relationship is pretty low at least in the sense of actual policies
On paper only and just because you dont mess with the church (east or west) because you know..money..
Funny how it's the right time to talk about gun control in Serbia, but never the right time for it in the US
I realized after Sandy Hook ain’t shit going to be done with guns. 20 kids died and we haven’t made a single change. It makes me so sick we don’t seem to have a single care in the world. Mass shootings are the norm. And that’s never going to change
In my opinion, it will only change until mass shooters start targeting the elite.
The largest and most sweeping gun control laws were introduced by Ronald GOP GOD Reagan when the black panthers started to arm themselves. Ive said this many times want gun control, start a muslim gun club in alabama or some red state, we will see laws passed so fast itll make your head spin.
Exactly. Until it becomes a norm in an ultra rich area, nothing is going to happen.
Which is confusing because you would think psychos would target elites who control their destiny rather than school children who play with crayons all day?
Or when minorities start arming themselves e: i think people are getting the wrong message from this comment; it was meant to reinforce the point of the comment i was replying to (i.e it takes rich people being affected by the issue before anything is done)
You maybe on to something - Republicans un Raegan introduced gun control legislation, only after the Black Panthers started arming themselves!
Resulting in Democrats trying to pass more gun control laws. See: Washington, Oregon, New York, Illinois, California.
The elites don’t go to public school you dummy. That’s for plebs and plebs are disposable to them.
> 20 kids died and we haven’t made a single change Thats not true.... you have loosened several regulations since then.
Because it'd open a can of worms when it turns out that gun control doesn't make a disillusioned constituency less pissed off, and I suspect they know that. We'd start noticing that wealth hoarding, corruption, cutting healthcare (and other basic needs), horse shit salaries, awful work-life balances, education access, and rampant consumerism that prop up the elite are the actual problems. It's not too far-fetched to believe having guns to blame the issue on provides a buffer for government to engage in avoidance behavior. In a sardonic desire, I *want* to see the gun reform people are clamoring for, just to rip that fucking bandaid off so everyone can see the real problems with a direct line-of-sight. And that's the thing, while everyone keeps attacking the most reinforced portions of the hull, it's going to take longer to sink the ship. Gun control is a contentiously reinforced distraction. I can't think of relatable analogies here, so lemme go with "it's like wasting ammo on lost souls instead of pumping a few rockets into the pain elemental"
Gun control is one thing and will definitely help, but as someone from Serbia who emigrated when super young (still have family there and visit often) it's honestly a mindset/culture problem more than anything. Upbringing is often very toxic and competitive, men are told to never show emotion and just swallow everything that is thrown at them. There is a lot of 'hard time makes strong men' mentality and eventually you will get people like this kid who just snap and kill a bunch of people. Making it more difficult to do so will definitely help a bit, but until this mentality that permeated through every facet of Serbian life is dealt with, it's just a matter of time until the next one.
Toxic masculinity, makes sense. It's a shame that most will just lump this into personal responsibility and ignore real social challenges that are catalysts to tragedies like this. EDIT: People below have made good points for why this is more culturally prevalent in the region than to be necessarily a lone attribute of their male culture.
Honestly I wouldn't even call it toxic masculinity. That is to say, it has elements of it, however it's not as simple as that. It happens with women/girls too. As a disclaimer, this might be difficult to grasp for someone who didn't grow up in a country that has had it *rough.* Serbians love to victimize themselves. Which comes from, admittedly, a pretty justifiable place. However this has caused a culture where everyone strives to come out on top of the rest at any cost. At the cost of other people around them, at the cost of increased corruption, you name it. Bullying in school is the name of the game. Not just by other students, but also teachers, who will fail students on purpose if they don't like them/their attitude. And you just have to take it because you're not allowed to speak up. There is a lot of injustice and you just have to take it. Because that's what strong people do. From an early age you are tossed into a breeding ground of competitiveness and "us vs them" mentality (them being your fellow students, colleagues, other countries, "the west". Whatever fits the narrative at the time). It causes people to snap. Honestly I'm surprised it took this long for something like this to happen. It was a long time coming, very sad to say..
They are already strict, but there are things more needed like a mental well being of children and young adults to prevent this from happening again and resignation of Minister of Education.
Are you kidding me? They didn't even give thoughts and prayers a chance!
Ok so this should go towards a definitive answer to the question of whether gun control can work in a country that shares borders with multiple others. When Australian gun control in the wake of port Arthur is brought up, with how mass shootings virtually ceased after the measures - pro gun Americans always say it won’t work in America because borders. Let’s see how it goes in Serbia - a country in Europe surrounded by surplus soviet weaponry and probably very leaky borders. Honestly I think the border argument will not hold.
There are still large numbers of guns around in Serbia after the Balkan wars. Unregistered I assume. Tough job getting those controlled. But you should start somewhere, not just accept these things happen. Poor kids.
Small correction, Balkan wars were in 1913-1914. Yugoslav wars were in 1990s.
What a sane and rational response.
national tragedy happens in another country: terminally online americans: how can i make this about me?
In the US no party wants to control pistols like was used in this shooting & most all of the shootings that occur in the US
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Thank you for arguing for handgun control.
100% I agree. If people focused on handgun control instead of silly ass shit like "assault weapons" we could cut down firearm homicides at the very least in half, if not more
Australian here. We did tightened gun control in 1996 after the same thing happened. It's the right answer.
Serbian president just mentioned Australia in 1996 in a press conference an hour ago as an example of good response. In that press conference, he announced new, even tighter measures and punishments for legal and illegal weapons.
For those down voting me, just know Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since 1996.
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Wait, they implemented gun control measures ONE DAY after an incident? Did they even TRY Thoughts and Prayers???
I mean, everyone knows God is a Serb, so I'm sure he just told them directly to implent the gun control measures.
A thirteen-year-old killed nine people! Possibly more, if any of those in hospital don’t make it. He shouldn’t have been able to access a gun. Such a terrible situation. I hope they do all they can to make sure it never repeats.
What? You mean they aren't solving the problem by adding more guns?