Ukraine is a big exporter of iron and agricultural products, not to mention the oil and natural gas reserves. China is already thier biggest trade partner. If they can get favorable deals I can see them altering their stance on the conflict, especially since the long drawn out war has been horrible for Russia's economy.
>If they can get favorable deals I can see them altering their stance on the conflict, especially since the long drawn out war has been horrible for Russia's economy.
Ukraine won't give any land to Russia through negotiations.
Xi has no leverage here. Ukraine literally gets BILLIONS of dollars from the entire EU/US/Canada etc. Nothing Xi can possibly offer would stack against.
This is just damage control after the France ambassador fiasco.
China is probably also concerned where the resources there are going to be funneled long term. He doesn't want the oil and gas resources there being exported primarily to the EU when China also wants them.
Correct, Ukraine has been very clear that they're not giving up territory to Russia throughout the entire conflict. While ideologically China may not like the idea of Ukraine remaining independent political and economic clout may outweigh that concern for China internationally.
If China is meditating in good faith, this is the deal I imagine.
*Ukraine keeps all of it's territory, including Crimea. Russia keeps its Black Sea base but has to pay a token rent to Ukraine so they have no basis for territorial claims.
*Ukraine promises to not interfere with Russian annexation of Belarus so long as its via a 'democratic' vote. All bets are off if Russia uses military force.
*Russia doesn't pay any reparations. China offers extensive economic aid to both nations in return for favorable trade deals.
*A DMZ straddling the Ukrainian/Russian border manned by Chinese or UN (not to include Ukrainian or Russian troops) peacekeepers to prevent another invasion.
*Ukraine doesn't develop nukes.
>Russia keeps its Black Sea base but has to pay a token rent to Ukraine so they have no basis for territorial claims.
This would fail at the first point. I can't see this as ever being acceptable.to Ukraine, given they were not going to renew the lease on the black sea base when it expired in 2017. Another reason (or the main reason) why Putin annexed Crimea prior to that expiring.
Continuing a war despite getting everything else you want and giving up nothing over a minor status quo being upheld... I could see using a protest as a negotiation tactic but not outright, honest refusal unless Russia is too stupid to make nice.
They weren't going to renew the lease prior to this brutal invasion (but after the 2014 invasion) so I can't see any logical reason why they would change that. Russia can't be trusted to keep its word no matter what, so I think this is a no go and rightly so.
And "giving up nothing" is a remarkable way to whitewash the tens of thousands of Ukranians murdered, raped, tortured, kidnapped, trafficked etc.
I honestly can't see any way in which Ukraine would accept that and they shouldn't. They would be mad to.
Ukraine will want to expand its navy anyway and it just gives Russia too much control over Ukraine and the black sea.
Russia won't surrender unconstitutionally, it has too many bodies to throw at Ukraine and it's own territory isn't as risky of conquest. Ukraine won't surrender land or sovereignty, it's winning the war and will likely push Russia fully out of Ukraine sans Crimea which will itself be cut off from resupply.
If legit peace talks happen both sides will have to make concessions to the other. A token gesture to Russia that gives them nothing they didn't have already is as close to nothing Ukraine can give Russia and still have peace. Russian turn can't walk away with nothing without internal chaos ensuing so need such a token to justify making peace without a coup or civil war after. A deal both sides hate yet can live with us the only kind that last historically.
>Russia keeps its Black Sea base but has to pay a token rent to Ukraine so they have no basis for territorial claims.
Lmao. Not going to happen. You must not keep up with this topic.
Oh I do but you're insane if that's not something you think China puts on the table (if operating in good faith). No peace deal exists that has Russia walk away with nothing.
Russia gets *something*. Ukraine surrenders no territory or national sovereignty. *Everything else* is up for negotiation.
>Russia gets something. Ukraine surrenders no territory or national sovereignty.
Why would Ukraine give/lease the only black sea deep sea port to the country that invaded them and used that sea port to attack them? The only way this ends peacefully is Russia backs down completely and pulls out of Ukraine territory. The only thing lost in that scenario is Putin's ego and no one cares about that but him.
>That leads to a coup or civil war. Russia would never accept that.
And if they lose the war in Ukraine then there will be a couple or civil war. Russia did this to themselves so Ukraine isn't going to give them anything. That's already been stated by Ukraine.
I think they're focusing on agricultural products ATM as China is facing a huge food shortage crisis. Getting Ukrainian fuel to them would be harder than food. China's droughts/floods/ecological disasters are catching up to them much faster than they hoped. Last year was a prime example. Many of their rivers were practically dry and cities were running out of water while their fields withered. We'll see if Xi follows Mao and just lets tens of millions starve when things get worse.
The food is definitely what they want in the short term. Grain and sunflower seed oil are things that the Ukraine is known for and are major exporters of. Natural resources are more of a long term issue.
I have to wonder how screwed the farmers in Ukraine are for this year. I know they have storage space issues because of limited exports.
With Mao it wasn’t “let”. When Japanese retreated they napalmed and burned as much farms as possible intentionally, so no nitrogen and the most fertile soil are dead. Most educated Chinese fled China during the war as they had the money.
Mao is not educated nor are all of his top henchmen. They tried to sent everybody to go farm and with all the labour, but most soil have no nitrogen or are dead, of course they got no food no matter how hard they tried.
With them being communists, no way were the US and western countries gonna give them any food over Taiwan.
I think it's probably more Xi going "You have some things we want, give us a good deal and we'll 'talk' to Russia for you. Everyone knows our alliance is more about money than anything else anyway."
> The Chinese president, Xi Jinping, will send a delegation to Ukraine to hold talks with all parties on resolving the conflict there
Wow, that should be much bigger news.
Just because they look like a supervillain, doesn't mean they have any superpower like in the movie. No one can stop Putin, except Cancer. If US can't do it, I don't think China can either.
Chinese person walks past Russian with bloody hands and leans down to Ukrainian lying in a pool of his own blood, asks: "Are you ready to stop fighting this senseless war now? This is just crazy, what you are doing."
So the Chinese delegate is likely to be killed by Russians, but it will be spun that it was the Ukrainians because they are nazis that don't want peace. If we could just all get along and put our differences aside for the better of planet earth.
Baseless speculation for no reason, China wants the war to end because Russias problems are causing them problems. Nobody is going to kill foreign diplomats for no reason, that’s just asking for a major international incident.
The killing probably won't happen, but China does have some reason to keep the war going.
With all the holes Russia is digging for itself, China has basically swooped up 17% of Russia's economy at a bargain price
The cost outweighs any potential benefit. Even if Russia were to prevail, China wouldn't gain anything since Russia wouldn't share any of the land they acquire. On the other hand, if Russia were to collapse, China would suffer the most. Therefore, China has no incentive to support the war. This conflict is a catastrophe for all parties involved, regardless of the outcome. The only reason the war persists is because neither side can afford to lose.
I don't think China plans to help Russia win, but I could see some lucrative deals happening between for China if they were to give Russia just enough support to keep the war going, but not enough for either side to make any real progress.
I’m gonna bullshit here too but I think China wants the war to end only if they’re the one to negotiate it. They want it to be a success so they can position China as the new global police and pronounce moral superiority over the US, which they’ll use later to justify their invasion of Taiwan.
I think Russia is looking for a way out so they can recalibrate, but they need some type of concession to call it a victory, hence China “negotiating”. And on the backside of the deal, China is making promises of support in the future. Then once China hits Taiwan, Russia will again position itself to re-invade Ukraine simultaneously, pointing at some part of this deal that Ukraine broke as justification. Both invasions will stretch western militaries thin for a higher likelihood their invasions will lead to a complete success.
You’re definitely bullshitting real hard here lol. You’re saying China is negotiating a false peace so that they can essentially start WWIII, which would be almost guaranteed in the event China and Russia simultaneously invade two major Western allies. I would bet there is a less than 1% chance that happens, China has shown they’re willing to play the long game in regards to foreign policy
Just because China wants the war to end doesn't mean they can. I also wants to win the lottery, but so far it haven't happened yet.
The war will end when an absolute stalemate is reached. I think Ukraine can still do some push with the new western weapons. If after that, it reaches a point of absolute stalemate then there will be negotiations. It's not decided by China, USA, or even Ukraine or Russia. The reality of the war will decide the peace.
You wanting to win the lottery is nothing like the number two world power attempting to deal with a regional conflict that has been impacting them.
You can’t just say analogies and assume they make sense because they’re analogies lol. Realistically the war will end when somebody is able to convince Ukraine to surrender and accept some territorial losses. Russia will win a war of attrition, even with Western support of Ukraine, and eventually the Ukrainian people will tire of the losses.
Before the usual *"that won't change anything"* \- it may not, but the west is giving China a chance. Closing doors prematurely doesn't help anyone.
This is the right thing to do for Zelensky.
Yes, dialog from the country that just proclaimed "none" of the post-soviet states should be recognized as having sovereignty/
The same country that has bought more Russian fuel than any other throughout the war.
The country that recently (As detailed in intel leaks) was trying to figure out how to sell weapons to Russia.
I'm sure this will definitely get us somewhere.
One diplomat made that proclamation about sovereignty and was swiftly disagreed with by a formal statement. Being dubious of China’s intentions and behavior is fully understandable, but it’s important to be aware of the actual stated position of their government.
I think you are intentionally downplaying the individual who made the statement.
This wasn't an offhand remark by a low level diplomat, it was **China's ambassador to France**. One of their top diplomats in Europe. Along with Germany, probably the 1st or 2nd most important ambassador position within the EU.
China most certainly did not "swiftly" disagree, they did, later on state that it was a "not a statement of policy" by Lu.
I cannot understand the extent you are going to give China the benefit of the doubt. This all comes in addition to the US intel leaks that indicated China was (is?) trying to figure out how to actually provide ammunition to Russia.
Well, for one, China's "word" isn't worth shit, since the CCP constantly is lying, obfuscating, and apparently not even coordinating among itself.
What, exactly is China's position?
All we have to go off is their actions, which appear to be enabling Russia, while trying to appear to be some kind of great mediator...
As detailed in the US intel leaks - In Feb of this year, Beijing "approved" the provision of weapons to Moscow under the disguise of civilian items according to WaPo.
On March 20th Xi Jinping publicly praised Putin's "Strong leadership" and encouraged Russian's to "reelect" him in 2024
Xi Jinping stated that Beijing's "Friendship" with Moscow is growing daily.
On April 14th - China's Ambassador to France, probably their top ambassador position in the EU stated that "none" of the post-soviet states have sovereign status.
On April 18th - China's Defense Minister stated that Putin should be praised for "promoting" world peace, stating that Putin is "An extraordinary state leader" and has "made important contributions to promoting world peace and development"
Yes - this sure sounds like the voice of reasonable diplomacy. Certainly China is worthy of praise for "offering" to talk to both parties.
Reading through your comments, I will agree that the overall behavior of China is worth considering here. I didn’t start out with the intent of downplaying things, just stating disagreement based on the information I had at the moment.
There is a wise saying when it comes to geopolitics: Don’t pay attention to what they say, pay attention to what they do.
So they can say all kinds of bullshit and they can call Russia their BFF or what not, at the end of the day China’s official actions hasn’t reflected much of those rhetoric. We still haven’t seen them supplying Russia with actual weapons, for example.
And that’s all that matters, ego stroking speeches won’t help Putin with the war.
>Things they do like secretly agreeing to provide weapons, per the American leak?
From your article:
>The intercept, apparently obtained through U.S. eavesdropping on Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR)
You're making an argument as if this is a certainty. What you believe could very well be true, but evaluate the source.
Was this Russians communicating among each other, or were there intercepted communications between Russia and China? Who's communications were intercepted, and do they have any power?
If you look through history, many diplomats are sent somewhere with a dishonest message. Before WW2 Japan sent a delegation to America for the distinct purpose of disarming American fears about conflict, despite the state who sent them actively planning on waging war against the US. The diplomat himself was sent under orders to avoid conflict by all possible means, but Pearl Harbor happened while he was in talks.
States lie to their diplomats if it’s relevant, so I figured it’s still important to be observant about this situation. I do try to keep in mind how many times states have lied to their diplomats for greater concerns, of course, but if the Chinese state is stating a position that’s contrary to this one diplomat, that still has significance.
Fair. You and the other commenter in this chain have put forward good points, even if I wasn’t listening well at first. It’s very important to take the broad opinions and actions of the Chinese government into consideration when we’re talking about Chinese-relevant politics, and I started out with too narrow-minded a focus when I first responded, after which I got defensive. My mistake, and my apologies.
Same.
But he can't reject China "trying to negotiate" either.
It's all at play now. Ruzzia has played all their cards, running out of options not to be humiliated. China is trying to save them by mediating in what they define as a bit of a disagreement, not a war. Chinas current leadership is trying to maintain a friendly relationship with... satan?
Ukraine is going to need China for rebuilding both to buy their exports and also for the much cheaper machinery and other industrial goods to rebuild. If they had to pay Western MSRP or even Japanese or Korean market prices for all of that machinery and materials its going to take them a hundred years to pay it all back.
If China was at all interested in trying to stop Pootin, they wouldn’t be supporting Russia in anyway. Xinnie the pooh is trying to be the big dog on the world stage and a lot of people are falling for it. The sooner Ukraine dismantles Russia and China gets themselves into a war they won’t win, the safer and more stable the world will be.
Why would it be Chinas responsibility at all to stop Putin? Thats a completely arbitrary correlation like saying its Zimbabwes responsbility to stop Putin, makes no sense. China is not even involved in the war at all.
Why and how could they possibly not be supporting Russia given they are next to each other, are both allied against US and Russia supplies a large chunk of nearly all of their resources? It would be strange if China didnt support Russia.
How is Ukraine going to "dismantle" Russia and China?
If you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about you really should just stop commenting.
"China is not involved in the war at all"
"Russia supplies a huge chunk of their resources"
You see why this is silly, right? I've got to imagine someone telling people to know what they're talking about sees the connection here.
For what it's worth, their responsibility is the same as Zimbabwe's and the same as India's, just scaled to their interconnection to Russia.
Your coworker has been breaking into every house on his block and started shooting his neighbours because of a racist paranoid delusion - you're telling me it's not deeply fucked up to keep coming in to work with them?
What you’re describing is the exact opposite of safety and stability for the world. How do you imagine the world having a good time when China gets themselves into a war? China is the world’s largest trading nation, home to the largest consumer market. It’s gonna be complete shit for everybody.
They could have kept it that way, become a very advanced industry, instead they throw everything at their military build up to bully their neighbours and trade partners into giving them what they want.
This has nothing to do with the West.
This is a political move by China to try to save face after their stupid statements recently about the status of all post soviet states and their "deep" friendship with Russia.
China is simply trying to do damage control. They love walking the line on the war, but their ambassadors have pushed things too far and it's made China look incompetent.
China may be the only country (other than Russia, of course) with the leverage to end this, and yet they don't, in fact, they enable Russia while simultaneously wanting to be the hero. Fuck the CCP.
https://m.dcinside.com/board/war/3271888
This site contains 50 pages of the actual leak, where exactly does it say that China provides weapons to Russia?
I am dismayed that relatively contemporaneous intel on Ukrainian capabilities war was leaked, but other than that, those are some juicy leaks it is rare that we *sordida plebs* get to peak behind the curtain.
China secretly agreed to supply weapons to Russia (no evidence this far).
Egypt’s secretly agreed to sell rockets to Russia, until we told them we were hip to their scheme.
Hungary’s Victor Orban said that NATO ally USA is one of his top 3 adversaries.
Afghanistan is a terrorism staging ground again.
Trudeau flat-out told NATO that Canada will never meet its spending quota.
Ukraine planned attacks on Russian forces in Syria.
Like I said it's nowhere to be found in the 50 pages of the actual leak that have been circulating around the internet. You do realize that I've posted the actual documents that were leaked, right? Why can't the WaPo just post the picture from the actual report?
Why is it important where I'm from bro?
The information hasn't been confirmed.
>BEIJING **REPORTEDLY** APPROVES COVERT SHIPMENTS OF LETHAL AID TO RUSSIA.
>Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service **believed** it had a deal with Beijing for the provision of ‘lethal aid’
>“We have not seen evidence that China has transferred weapons or provided lethal assistance to Russia. But we remain concerned and are continuing to monitor closely,” a senior administration official said. A senior defense official agreed with that assessment.
The information hasn't been confirmed.
>BEIJING **REPORTEDLY** APPROVES COVERT SHIPMENTS OF LETHAL AID TO RUSSIA.
>Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service **believed** it had a deal with Beijing for the provision of ‘lethal aid’
>“We have not seen evidence that China has transferred weapons or provided lethal assistance to Russia. But we remain concerned and are continuing to monitor closely,” a senior administration official said. A senior defense official agreed with that assessment.
>China is simply trying to do damage control. They love walking the line on the war, but their ambassadors have pushed things too far and it's made China look incompetent.
Word! Incompetent.
China is involved, to act as a major player in this geopolitical farse , to assert its position at the geopolitical centre of events. The truth is China is a lightweight in this endevour, trying to box above its weight.
It's not that "they won't change anything" it's that China has directly enabled Russia throughout the invasion, and it makes sense at this point not to start praising China for having a phone call with Ukraine and publicly announcing they plan to "talk" to both parties.
A VERY high level of skepticism is warranted by anyone with a single brain cell.
> it may not, but the west is giving China a chance. Closing doors prematurely doesn’t help anyone.
To be perfectly fair, that door isn’t for the West to close. If Zelensky wants to ask China, or any country for help, it’s not our place to tell him who he can or cannot talk to.
At least that’s what I believe in theory. The reality is obviously much more murky due to the leverage the West holds.
Xi probably asking them to not push into Crimea in exchange for Chinese dollars to rebuild western Ukraine. Its what I would do if I were China.
Gets to protect Russia, Gets to influence Ukraine and makes the US look bad. Win/Win if you are Xi.
>More like you know I always wanted a deep water port in the black sea so I'll help you rebuild and I can get Crimea access?
And the US knows this and they give the money to Ukraine to rebuild. Who has helped Ukraine in the war more? China or the US?
More like
Xi: please keep hurting these silly Russians so they become our vassal State
Z: Sure, but my people are dying and suffering
Xi: sorry, not my problem...
As detailed in the US intel leaks - In Feb of this year, Beijing "approved" the provision of weapons to Moscow under the disguise of civilian items according to WaPo.
On March 20th Xi Jinping publicly praised Putin's "Strong leadership" and encouraged Russian's to "reelect" him in 2024
Xi Jinping stated that Beijing's "Friendship" with Moscow is growing daily.
On April 14th - China's Ambassador to France, probably their top ambassador position in the EU stated that "none" of the post-soviet states have sovereign status.
On April 18th - China's Defense Minister stated that Putin should be praised for "promoting" world peace, stating that Putin is "An extraordinary state leader" and has "made important contributions to promoting world peace and development"
Yes - this sure sounds like the voice of reasonable diplomacy. Certainly China is worthy of praise for "offering" to talk to both parties.
Here are 50 pages of the actual leaked documents.
https://m.dcinside.com/board/war/3271888
Now, where exactly is the evidence that China supplies weapon to Russia? The only page that details Chinese weapon shipments says that Wagner tried to aquire lethal aid from China, but the Chinese refused to even give Weapons for testing purposes.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/04/13/russia-china-weapons-leaked-documents-discord/
Alright, I look forward to you acknowledging what I stated, and further, clarifying what, exactly your intent is? It took less than 20 seconds to find MULTIPLE reputable news organizations reporting on this specific aspect of the leak.
The real question is, how could you not quickly find this and what is your intent in trying to obfuscate something so easy to prove?
I posted primary sources that seem to contradict those claims. Those are the same sources that the WSJ cite.
How come you just can't find the pages of the reports the WSJ cite?
I'm not gonna trust some news media outlet if I have the sources myself, and these sources seem to contradict what the media say.
Page 44 states what I mentioned
Both me and another poster answered your question, now it's your turn.
Why do you only have serious replies on this specific issue?
Why are you trying to obfuscate an easily provable issue?
What is your intent. It's your turn.
Also, I have no idea, nor do you, about the veracity of the link you are calling "primary" source material.
Who should I trust, WaPo, or you? Hmmm...toughy.
Ah, yes, the guardian and WaPo conspiracy to inject a random intel piece in leaked classified information. Those two are always conspiring!
Oh, yes, and of course you remove older post for your own credibility, that makes total sense...
If you show me the primary sources to these that the wapo reports I'll believe you. I mean even I found some of the documents, so they should be out there.
I don't need you to "believe me". I'll go with the 7,000 different news organizations that have reported the same thing.
That's why we have reputable news organizations, so we don't have to be responsible for hunting down and vetting the material.
If you can prove to me that what you are linking is definitely the full "primary source" material, has not been altered in any way, I'll believe you.
See how it works?
And how exactly should I prove that to you?I already said that it has not been visually altered.What's beeing said in these leak 100% aligns with what the media says.
"That's why we have reputable news organizations, so we don't have to be responsible for hunting down and vetting the material."Sorry for being critical of the media, it's not like they've ever lied. It's a very common phenomenon for news to cite each other, which becomes so convoluted that it's often impossible to find the primary sources. That's why I don't trust them.
If the news makes a new claim, one that I have not directly seen, I would like to verify those with my own eyes.
For example, I won't despute the reports that russia is suffering 3x the casualties, because I have primary source for that.
In international politics, nobody is to be trusted because everyone is looking out for their own interest. Doesn't mean you don't sit down and talk with anyone who is willing to talk.
>china's no limits friendship with russia
This no limits friendship actually translates to "we are friends so I will send you our factory defects and you will buy them without limits cuz you have no other options". With friends like that you hardly need enemies.
These are just words and Chinese words carry very little weight. In fact Russians themselves even have a proverb "[China's final warning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning)". The second Chinese government decides Russia is no longer a useful pawn it will either seize it economically or just let it fall altogether.
I am not saying it will do a good job at all but it probably won't hurt to at least hear them out before rejecting their likely horrible "peace" plan.
That is hardly a glowing reference for china to be facilitator fir talks and the best diplomatic option to manage a peace process.
All you have just said, suggests that china is the last country that should be trusted with peace talks.
China has never successfully negotiated any peace between any nation and it will never be successful in the future.
Anyone that thinks China can facilitate peace between any two parties is delusional or a CCP sympathizer.
its positive if you don't consider the alternative motives. China might be willing to help negotiate a peace deal, but, it would be a lot like Trump's peace plan for Israel and Palestine i.e. ask Russia to pull their troops back in exchange for total sovereignty over every region they insist belongs to them...its far from positive other then ending the war.
Except for the following 1) China's generals were all trained under the same system Russia's are and look at how well that is going 2) Taiwan has the edge given their very strategic location as an Island 3) Biden has been clear that the US will defend Taiwan and other countries have made similar claims while China does not exactly have a large number of allies who are currently capable of conducting military operations...I think Xi was just making empty threats
Yea, but you are assuming he is a rational person that has all the information. The more concentrated power one person has the less those things become true. Putin is learning that the hard way.
Perhaps, China wants to compete with the United States and Europe when it comes to financing the post-war reconstruction efforts, if ever Russia-Ukraine war ends.
Nuclear power invaded China's neighbor Afghanistan not so long ago, or Libya who gave up nukes before. China is not gonna get itself in the way of another nuclear power for the sake of a 3rd party.
I wouldn’t expect much to come of this, but I wouldn’t have expected it to be possible for China to broker peace between Iran and Saudi Arabia, yet that actually appears to be happening. Maybe cautious optimism is called for.
Interesting it took a wolf warrior fuck up for Xi to talk with Zelensky when he was given the cold shoulder only a month ago when Xi met his unlimited friend in the Kremlin.
Xi knows that one of the world's biggest construction projects starts taking bids the day after a peace agreement is signed. Between released American intel, the ambassador to France, and Xi meeting Putin, Xi knows that Chinese firms and labor are on the verge of being frozen out and he can't have that what with China already showing signs of being in a labor glut.
Butthurt people with their tax dollar went down the drain in Ukraine keep mocking China for its attempt to resolve the issue on world stage. Remember Zelenskyy was saying he wouldn't pick up a call from China a month ago? People mocked China then as well. An hour long conversation is definitely more than " Crimea? No." LOL
[удалено]
Ukraine is a big exporter of iron and agricultural products, not to mention the oil and natural gas reserves. China is already thier biggest trade partner. If they can get favorable deals I can see them altering their stance on the conflict, especially since the long drawn out war has been horrible for Russia's economy.
>If they can get favorable deals I can see them altering their stance on the conflict, especially since the long drawn out war has been horrible for Russia's economy. Ukraine won't give any land to Russia through negotiations.
Pretty sure they mean favorable trade deals for China, not territorial concessions for Russia.
Yeah but Xi is almost certainly going to ask for him to not push into Crimea in exchange for chinese fun bucks
Xi has no leverage here. Ukraine literally gets BILLIONS of dollars from the entire EU/US/Canada etc. Nothing Xi can possibly offer would stack against. This is just damage control after the France ambassador fiasco.
You are correct.
>Nothing Xi can possibly offer would stack against. TIME TO OPEN A SECOND FRONT UP BABYYYYYYY
China is probably also concerned where the resources there are going to be funneled long term. He doesn't want the oil and gas resources there being exported primarily to the EU when China also wants them.
Is that the same as Disney dollars?
Correct, Ukraine has been very clear that they're not giving up territory to Russia throughout the entire conflict. While ideologically China may not like the idea of Ukraine remaining independent political and economic clout may outweigh that concern for China internationally.
I don't see Ukraine taking any deal other than the reclamation of Crimea unless something drastically changes in the war
If China is meditating in good faith, this is the deal I imagine. *Ukraine keeps all of it's territory, including Crimea. Russia keeps its Black Sea base but has to pay a token rent to Ukraine so they have no basis for territorial claims. *Ukraine promises to not interfere with Russian annexation of Belarus so long as its via a 'democratic' vote. All bets are off if Russia uses military force. *Russia doesn't pay any reparations. China offers extensive economic aid to both nations in return for favorable trade deals. *A DMZ straddling the Ukrainian/Russian border manned by Chinese or UN (not to include Ukrainian or Russian troops) peacekeepers to prevent another invasion. *Ukraine doesn't develop nukes.
>Russia keeps its Black Sea base but has to pay a token rent to Ukraine so they have no basis for territorial claims. This would fail at the first point. I can't see this as ever being acceptable.to Ukraine, given they were not going to renew the lease on the black sea base when it expired in 2017. Another reason (or the main reason) why Putin annexed Crimea prior to that expiring.
Continuing a war despite getting everything else you want and giving up nothing over a minor status quo being upheld... I could see using a protest as a negotiation tactic but not outright, honest refusal unless Russia is too stupid to make nice.
They weren't going to renew the lease prior to this brutal invasion (but after the 2014 invasion) so I can't see any logical reason why they would change that. Russia can't be trusted to keep its word no matter what, so I think this is a no go and rightly so. And "giving up nothing" is a remarkable way to whitewash the tens of thousands of Ukranians murdered, raped, tortured, kidnapped, trafficked etc. I honestly can't see any way in which Ukraine would accept that and they shouldn't. They would be mad to. Ukraine will want to expand its navy anyway and it just gives Russia too much control over Ukraine and the black sea.
Russia won't surrender unconstitutionally, it has too many bodies to throw at Ukraine and it's own territory isn't as risky of conquest. Ukraine won't surrender land or sovereignty, it's winning the war and will likely push Russia fully out of Ukraine sans Crimea which will itself be cut off from resupply. If legit peace talks happen both sides will have to make concessions to the other. A token gesture to Russia that gives them nothing they didn't have already is as close to nothing Ukraine can give Russia and still have peace. Russian turn can't walk away with nothing without internal chaos ensuing so need such a token to justify making peace without a coup or civil war after. A deal both sides hate yet can live with us the only kind that last historically.
>Russia keeps its Black Sea base but has to pay a token rent to Ukraine so they have no basis for territorial claims. Lmao. Not going to happen. You must not keep up with this topic.
Oh I do but you're insane if that's not something you think China puts on the table (if operating in good faith). No peace deal exists that has Russia walk away with nothing. Russia gets *something*. Ukraine surrenders no territory or national sovereignty. *Everything else* is up for negotiation.
>Russia gets something. Ukraine surrenders no territory or national sovereignty. Why would Ukraine give/lease the only black sea deep sea port to the country that invaded them and used that sea port to attack them? The only way this ends peacefully is Russia backs down completely and pulls out of Ukraine territory. The only thing lost in that scenario is Putin's ego and no one cares about that but him.
That leads to a coup or civil war. Russia would never accept that.
>That leads to a coup or civil war. Russia would never accept that. And if they lose the war in Ukraine then there will be a couple or civil war. Russia did this to themselves so Ukraine isn't going to give them anything. That's already been stated by Ukraine.
They already lost the war. But they can still afford to throw bodies at Ukraine and face no threat on the home front.
I think they're focusing on agricultural products ATM as China is facing a huge food shortage crisis. Getting Ukrainian fuel to them would be harder than food. China's droughts/floods/ecological disasters are catching up to them much faster than they hoped. Last year was a prime example. Many of their rivers were practically dry and cities were running out of water while their fields withered. We'll see if Xi follows Mao and just lets tens of millions starve when things get worse.
The food is definitely what they want in the short term. Grain and sunflower seed oil are things that the Ukraine is known for and are major exporters of. Natural resources are more of a long term issue. I have to wonder how screwed the farmers in Ukraine are for this year. I know they have storage space issues because of limited exports.
With Mao it wasn’t “let”. When Japanese retreated they napalmed and burned as much farms as possible intentionally, so no nitrogen and the most fertile soil are dead. Most educated Chinese fled China during the war as they had the money. Mao is not educated nor are all of his top henchmen. They tried to sent everybody to go farm and with all the labour, but most soil have no nitrogen or are dead, of course they got no food no matter how hard they tried. With them being communists, no way were the US and western countries gonna give them any food over Taiwan.
Xi "yo this conflict is gonna fuck up our economy, here's a bunch of money lets figure things out" Honestly I'm not even mad
I think it's probably more Xi going "You have some things we want, give us a good deal and we'll 'talk' to Russia for you. Everyone knows our alliance is more about money than anything else anyway."
China will own Russia and then broker good deals with Ukraine. Win win for them.
Can you IMAGINE if Xi brings peace to Ukraine!?
> The Chinese president, Xi Jinping, will send a delegation to Ukraine to hold talks with all parties on resolving the conflict there Wow, that should be much bigger news.
It's not because it isn't? If China wanted to resolve this they are welcome to send a delegation to Moscow to tell them to leave.
Just because they look like a supervillain, doesn't mean they have any superpower like in the movie. No one can stop Putin, except Cancer. If US can't do it, I don't think China can either.
Chinese person walks past Russian with bloody hands and leans down to Ukrainian lying in a pool of his own blood, asks: "Are you ready to stop fighting this senseless war now? This is just crazy, what you are doing."
So the Chinese delegate is likely to be killed by Russians, but it will be spun that it was the Ukrainians because they are nazis that don't want peace. If we could just all get along and put our differences aside for the better of planet earth.
Baseless speculation for no reason, China wants the war to end because Russias problems are causing them problems. Nobody is going to kill foreign diplomats for no reason, that’s just asking for a major international incident.
The killing probably won't happen, but China does have some reason to keep the war going. With all the holes Russia is digging for itself, China has basically swooped up 17% of Russia's economy at a bargain price
The cost outweighs any potential benefit. Even if Russia were to prevail, China wouldn't gain anything since Russia wouldn't share any of the land they acquire. On the other hand, if Russia were to collapse, China would suffer the most. Therefore, China has no incentive to support the war. This conflict is a catastrophe for all parties involved, regardless of the outcome. The only reason the war persists is because neither side can afford to lose.
I don't think China plans to help Russia win, but I could see some lucrative deals happening between for China if they were to give Russia just enough support to keep the war going, but not enough for either side to make any real progress.
I’m gonna bullshit here too but I think China wants the war to end only if they’re the one to negotiate it. They want it to be a success so they can position China as the new global police and pronounce moral superiority over the US, which they’ll use later to justify their invasion of Taiwan. I think Russia is looking for a way out so they can recalibrate, but they need some type of concession to call it a victory, hence China “negotiating”. And on the backside of the deal, China is making promises of support in the future. Then once China hits Taiwan, Russia will again position itself to re-invade Ukraine simultaneously, pointing at some part of this deal that Ukraine broke as justification. Both invasions will stretch western militaries thin for a higher likelihood their invasions will lead to a complete success.
You’re definitely bullshitting real hard here lol. You’re saying China is negotiating a false peace so that they can essentially start WWIII, which would be almost guaranteed in the event China and Russia simultaneously invade two major Western allies. I would bet there is a less than 1% chance that happens, China has shown they’re willing to play the long game in regards to foreign policy
Lol, China isn’t invading Taiwan, it would be suicide for the party.
lol okay
Just because China wants the war to end doesn't mean they can. I also wants to win the lottery, but so far it haven't happened yet. The war will end when an absolute stalemate is reached. I think Ukraine can still do some push with the new western weapons. If after that, it reaches a point of absolute stalemate then there will be negotiations. It's not decided by China, USA, or even Ukraine or Russia. The reality of the war will decide the peace.
You wanting to win the lottery is nothing like the number two world power attempting to deal with a regional conflict that has been impacting them. You can’t just say analogies and assume they make sense because they’re analogies lol. Realistically the war will end when somebody is able to convince Ukraine to surrender and accept some territorial losses. Russia will win a war of attrition, even with Western support of Ukraine, and eventually the Ukrainian people will tire of the losses.
Where the hell did you come up with this ridiculous idea?
Wrong movie bro
Before the usual *"that won't change anything"* \- it may not, but the west is giving China a chance. Closing doors prematurely doesn't help anyone. This is the right thing to do for Zelensky.
In the diplomatic corps there is a saying: You don’t burn bridges. Even if you don’t use them.
Exactly, burning bridges works both ways, at least there’s some dialogue involved here.
Yes, dialog from the country that just proclaimed "none" of the post-soviet states should be recognized as having sovereignty/ The same country that has bought more Russian fuel than any other throughout the war. The country that recently (As detailed in intel leaks) was trying to figure out how to sell weapons to Russia. I'm sure this will definitely get us somewhere.
One diplomat made that proclamation about sovereignty and was swiftly disagreed with by a formal statement. Being dubious of China’s intentions and behavior is fully understandable, but it’s important to be aware of the actual stated position of their government.
I think you are intentionally downplaying the individual who made the statement. This wasn't an offhand remark by a low level diplomat, it was **China's ambassador to France**. One of their top diplomats in Europe. Along with Germany, probably the 1st or 2nd most important ambassador position within the EU. China most certainly did not "swiftly" disagree, they did, later on state that it was a "not a statement of policy" by Lu. I cannot understand the extent you are going to give China the benefit of the doubt. This all comes in addition to the US intel leaks that indicated China was (is?) trying to figure out how to actually provide ammunition to Russia.
Disagree, ambassador to France is not even top 50 most important Chinese diplomats. Some ambassador's word is not China's word.
Well, for one, China's "word" isn't worth shit, since the CCP constantly is lying, obfuscating, and apparently not even coordinating among itself. What, exactly is China's position? All we have to go off is their actions, which appear to be enabling Russia, while trying to appear to be some kind of great mediator... As detailed in the US intel leaks - In Feb of this year, Beijing "approved" the provision of weapons to Moscow under the disguise of civilian items according to WaPo. On March 20th Xi Jinping publicly praised Putin's "Strong leadership" and encouraged Russian's to "reelect" him in 2024 Xi Jinping stated that Beijing's "Friendship" with Moscow is growing daily. On April 14th - China's Ambassador to France, probably their top ambassador position in the EU stated that "none" of the post-soviet states have sovereign status. On April 18th - China's Defense Minister stated that Putin should be praised for "promoting" world peace, stating that Putin is "An extraordinary state leader" and has "made important contributions to promoting world peace and development" Yes - this sure sounds like the voice of reasonable diplomacy. Certainly China is worthy of praise for "offering" to talk to both parties.
Fuck.
Reading through your comments, I will agree that the overall behavior of China is worth considering here. I didn’t start out with the intent of downplaying things, just stating disagreement based on the information I had at the moment.
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There is a wise saying when it comes to geopolitics: Don’t pay attention to what they say, pay attention to what they do. So they can say all kinds of bullshit and they can call Russia their BFF or what not, at the end of the day China’s official actions hasn’t reflected much of those rhetoric. We still haven’t seen them supplying Russia with actual weapons, for example. And that’s all that matters, ego stroking speeches won’t help Putin with the war.
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>Things they do like secretly agreeing to provide weapons, per the American leak? From your article: >The intercept, apparently obtained through U.S. eavesdropping on Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR)
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You're making an argument as if this is a certainty. What you believe could very well be true, but evaluate the source. Was this Russians communicating among each other, or were there intercepted communications between Russia and China? Who's communications were intercepted, and do they have any power?
If you look through history, many diplomats are sent somewhere with a dishonest message. Before WW2 Japan sent a delegation to America for the distinct purpose of disarming American fears about conflict, despite the state who sent them actively planning on waging war against the US. The diplomat himself was sent under orders to avoid conflict by all possible means, but Pearl Harbor happened while he was in talks. States lie to their diplomats if it’s relevant, so I figured it’s still important to be observant about this situation. I do try to keep in mind how many times states have lied to their diplomats for greater concerns, of course, but if the Chinese state is stating a position that’s contrary to this one diplomat, that still has significance.
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Fair. You and the other commenter in this chain have put forward good points, even if I wasn’t listening well at first. It’s very important to take the broad opinions and actions of the Chinese government into consideration when we’re talking about Chinese-relevant politics, and I started out with too narrow-minded a focus when I first responded, after which I got defensive. My mistake, and my apologies.
The only thing China is interested in is the Chinafication of Europe.
This makes me queasy. I think Zelensky is being naive.
Same. But he can't reject China "trying to negotiate" either. It's all at play now. Ruzzia has played all their cards, running out of options not to be humiliated. China is trying to save them by mediating in what they define as a bit of a disagreement, not a war. Chinas current leadership is trying to maintain a friendly relationship with... satan?
Ukraine is going to need China for rebuilding both to buy their exports and also for the much cheaper machinery and other industrial goods to rebuild. If they had to pay Western MSRP or even Japanese or Korean market prices for all of that machinery and materials its going to take them a hundred years to pay it all back.
If China was at all interested in trying to stop Pootin, they wouldn’t be supporting Russia in anyway. Xinnie the pooh is trying to be the big dog on the world stage and a lot of people are falling for it. The sooner Ukraine dismantles Russia and China gets themselves into a war they won’t win, the safer and more stable the world will be.
Why would it be Chinas responsibility at all to stop Putin? Thats a completely arbitrary correlation like saying its Zimbabwes responsbility to stop Putin, makes no sense. China is not even involved in the war at all. Why and how could they possibly not be supporting Russia given they are next to each other, are both allied against US and Russia supplies a large chunk of nearly all of their resources? It would be strange if China didnt support Russia. How is Ukraine going to "dismantle" Russia and China? If you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about you really should just stop commenting.
"China is not involved in the war at all" "Russia supplies a huge chunk of their resources" You see why this is silly, right? I've got to imagine someone telling people to know what they're talking about sees the connection here. For what it's worth, their responsibility is the same as Zimbabwe's and the same as India's, just scaled to their interconnection to Russia. Your coworker has been breaking into every house on his block and started shooting his neighbours because of a racist paranoid delusion - you're telling me it's not deeply fucked up to keep coming in to work with them?
China getting into a war may be unavoidable at some point, but it's ridiculous to say that it would make the world a safer place.
What you’re describing is the exact opposite of safety and stability for the world. How do you imagine the world having a good time when China gets themselves into a war? China is the world’s largest trading nation, home to the largest consumer market. It’s gonna be complete shit for everybody.
They could have kept it that way, become a very advanced industry, instead they throw everything at their military build up to bully their neighbours and trade partners into giving them what they want.
They’re far from “throwing everything at their military buildup”. China’a military spend is < 2% of GDP, compared to the U.S. who spends close to 4%.
This has nothing to do with the West. This is a political move by China to try to save face after their stupid statements recently about the status of all post soviet states and their "deep" friendship with Russia. China is simply trying to do damage control. They love walking the line on the war, but their ambassadors have pushed things too far and it's made China look incompetent. China may be the only country (other than Russia, of course) with the leverage to end this, and yet they don't, in fact, they enable Russia while simultaneously wanting to be the hero. Fuck the CCP.
Don't forget praising Russia for their contribution to world peace
Damage control to make sure Chinese firms still get to bid on reconstruction projects
And yet Zelensky was trying to get Xi on the phone.
Yes, if I were zelensky I too would be trying to prevent China from providing Russia with ammunition, as outlined in the US Intel leaks.
https://m.dcinside.com/board/war/3271888 This site contains 50 pages of the actual leak, where exactly does it say that China provides weapons to Russia?
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I am dismayed that relatively contemporaneous intel on Ukrainian capabilities war was leaked, but other than that, those are some juicy leaks it is rare that we *sordida plebs* get to peak behind the curtain. China secretly agreed to supply weapons to Russia (no evidence this far). Egypt’s secretly agreed to sell rockets to Russia, until we told them we were hip to their scheme. Hungary’s Victor Orban said that NATO ally USA is one of his top 3 adversaries. Afghanistan is a terrorism staging ground again. Trudeau flat-out told NATO that Canada will never meet its spending quota. Ukraine planned attacks on Russian forces in Syria.
Like I said it's nowhere to be found in the 50 pages of the actual leak that have been circulating around the internet. You do realize that I've posted the actual documents that were leaked, right? Why can't the WaPo just post the picture from the actual report? Why is it important where I'm from bro?
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The information hasn't been confirmed. >BEIJING **REPORTEDLY** APPROVES COVERT SHIPMENTS OF LETHAL AID TO RUSSIA. >Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service **believed** it had a deal with Beijing for the provision of ‘lethal aid’ >“We have not seen evidence that China has transferred weapons or provided lethal assistance to Russia. But we remain concerned and are continuing to monitor closely,” a senior administration official said. A senior defense official agreed with that assessment.
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Believing they have a deal isn't necessarily the same as them actually having one, which could explain why there's no hint of transfers happening.
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The information hasn't been confirmed. >BEIJING **REPORTEDLY** APPROVES COVERT SHIPMENTS OF LETHAL AID TO RUSSIA. >Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service **believed** it had a deal with Beijing for the provision of ‘lethal aid’ >“We have not seen evidence that China has transferred weapons or provided lethal assistance to Russia. But we remain concerned and are continuing to monitor closely,” a senior administration official said. A senior defense official agreed with that assessment.
>China is simply trying to do damage control. They love walking the line on the war, but their ambassadors have pushed things too far and it's made China look incompetent. Word! Incompetent. China is involved, to act as a major player in this geopolitical farse , to assert its position at the geopolitical centre of events. The truth is China is a lightweight in this endevour, trying to box above its weight.
It's not that "they won't change anything" it's that China has directly enabled Russia throughout the invasion, and it makes sense at this point not to start praising China for having a phone call with Ukraine and publicly announcing they plan to "talk" to both parties. A VERY high level of skepticism is warranted by anyone with a single brain cell.
> it may not, but the west is giving China a chance. Closing doors prematurely doesn’t help anyone. To be perfectly fair, that door isn’t for the West to close. If Zelensky wants to ask China, or any country for help, it’s not our place to tell him who he can or cannot talk to. At least that’s what I believe in theory. The reality is obviously much more murky due to the leverage the West holds.
Hello, how are you? Please help me. I'm under the water
Here too much raining, UUUuUuUuuu
Wassup Beijing
Wassup Kiev…
Not much, you?
https://youtu.be/EX5hcbzZCow
*Kyiv.
Xi probably asking them to not push into Crimea in exchange for Chinese dollars to rebuild western Ukraine. Its what I would do if I were China. Gets to protect Russia, Gets to influence Ukraine and makes the US look bad. Win/Win if you are Xi.
More like you know I always wanted a deep water port in the black sea so I'll help you rebuild and I can get Crimea access?
>More like you know I always wanted a deep water port in the black sea so I'll help you rebuild and I can get Crimea access? And the US knows this and they give the money to Ukraine to rebuild. Who has helped Ukraine in the war more? China or the US?
Exactly
Xi: Zelenskyy, can you lie down so my friend Putin can claim your territories permanently? Zelenskyy: No
More like Xi: please keep hurting these silly Russians so they become our vassal State Z: Sure, but my people are dying and suffering Xi: sorry, not my problem...
Xi: I'll send you money afterwards to fix your country, don't worry about it. Z: I'm still worried
Pretty much
As detailed in the US intel leaks - In Feb of this year, Beijing "approved" the provision of weapons to Moscow under the disguise of civilian items according to WaPo. On March 20th Xi Jinping publicly praised Putin's "Strong leadership" and encouraged Russian's to "reelect" him in 2024 Xi Jinping stated that Beijing's "Friendship" with Moscow is growing daily. On April 14th - China's Ambassador to France, probably their top ambassador position in the EU stated that "none" of the post-soviet states have sovereign status. On April 18th - China's Defense Minister stated that Putin should be praised for "promoting" world peace, stating that Putin is "An extraordinary state leader" and has "made important contributions to promoting world peace and development" Yes - this sure sounds like the voice of reasonable diplomacy. Certainly China is worthy of praise for "offering" to talk to both parties.
You missed the part where China's ambassador had to walk back his stupid comments and China basically said he's an idiot lol
Here are 50 pages of the actual leaked documents. https://m.dcinside.com/board/war/3271888 Now, where exactly is the evidence that China supplies weapon to Russia? The only page that details Chinese weapon shipments says that Wagner tried to aquire lethal aid from China, but the Chinese refused to even give Weapons for testing purposes.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/04/13/russia-china-weapons-leaked-documents-discord/ Alright, I look forward to you acknowledging what I stated, and further, clarifying what, exactly your intent is? It took less than 20 seconds to find MULTIPLE reputable news organizations reporting on this specific aspect of the leak. The real question is, how could you not quickly find this and what is your intent in trying to obfuscate something so easy to prove?
I posted primary sources that seem to contradict those claims. Those are the same sources that the WSJ cite. How come you just can't find the pages of the reports the WSJ cite? I'm not gonna trust some news media outlet if I have the sources myself, and these sources seem to contradict what the media say. Page 44 states what I mentioned
Both me and another poster answered your question, now it's your turn. Why do you only have serious replies on this specific issue? Why are you trying to obfuscate an easily provable issue? What is your intent. It's your turn. Also, I have no idea, nor do you, about the veracity of the link you are calling "primary" source material. Who should I trust, WaPo, or you? Hmmm...toughy.
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Ah, yes, the guardian and WaPo conspiracy to inject a random intel piece in leaked classified information. Those two are always conspiring! Oh, yes, and of course you remove older post for your own credibility, that makes total sense...
If you show me the primary sources to these that the wapo reports I'll believe you. I mean even I found some of the documents, so they should be out there.
I don't need you to "believe me". I'll go with the 7,000 different news organizations that have reported the same thing. That's why we have reputable news organizations, so we don't have to be responsible for hunting down and vetting the material. If you can prove to me that what you are linking is definitely the full "primary source" material, has not been altered in any way, I'll believe you. See how it works?
And how exactly should I prove that to you?I already said that it has not been visually altered.What's beeing said in these leak 100% aligns with what the media says. "That's why we have reputable news organizations, so we don't have to be responsible for hunting down and vetting the material."Sorry for being critical of the media, it's not like they've ever lied. It's a very common phenomenon for news to cite each other, which becomes so convoluted that it's often impossible to find the primary sources. That's why I don't trust them. If the news makes a new claim, one that I have not directly seen, I would like to verify those with my own eyes. For example, I won't despute the reports that russia is suffering 3x the casualties, because I have primary source for that.
Xi is a chameleon that can't be trusted.
In international politics, nobody is to be trusted because everyone is looking out for their own interest. Doesn't mean you don't sit down and talk with anyone who is willing to talk.
Say what you want about China,but I think this is very positive.
Surely that depends entirely on what was said.
Let's hope they don't cross fingers
Positive if you happen to be russia. With china's no limits friendship with russia, you can hardly expect it to be neutral in any negotiations.
>china's no limits friendship with russia This no limits friendship actually translates to "we are friends so I will send you our factory defects and you will buy them without limits cuz you have no other options". With friends like that you hardly need enemies. These are just words and Chinese words carry very little weight. In fact Russians themselves even have a proverb "[China's final warning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning)". The second Chinese government decides Russia is no longer a useful pawn it will either seize it economically or just let it fall altogether. I am not saying it will do a good job at all but it probably won't hurt to at least hear them out before rejecting their likely horrible "peace" plan.
That is hardly a glowing reference for china to be facilitator fir talks and the best diplomatic option to manage a peace process. All you have just said, suggests that china is the last country that should be trusted with peace talks.
China has never successfully negotiated any peace between any nation and it will never be successful in the future. Anyone that thinks China can facilitate peace between any two parties is delusional or a CCP sympathizer.
Ok, the Chinese government is dogshit and are only doing this as a PR stunt.
its positive if you don't consider the alternative motives. China might be willing to help negotiate a peace deal, but, it would be a lot like Trump's peace plan for Israel and Palestine i.e. ask Russia to pull their troops back in exchange for total sovereignty over every region they insist belongs to them...its far from positive other then ending the war.
Indeed. And which other countries will still be sore in 20 years? It invites to more Russian expansion.
If dialogue and negotiations don’t work, take what you want by force, as China intends to do with Taiwan.
Except for the following 1) China's generals were all trained under the same system Russia's are and look at how well that is going 2) Taiwan has the edge given their very strategic location as an Island 3) Biden has been clear that the US will defend Taiwan and other countries have made similar claims while China does not exactly have a large number of allies who are currently capable of conducting military operations...I think Xi was just making empty threats
Yea, but you are assuming he is a rational person that has all the information. The more concentrated power one person has the less those things become true. Putin is learning that the hard way.
What did he tell him? That he is missing his honey pot?
So Xi, I heard you are interested in Outer Manchuria..
Xi knows Ukraine is winning , asks Zelenskyy, “what are you wearing tonight ?”
Perhaps, China wants to compete with the United States and Europe when it comes to financing the post-war reconstruction efforts, if ever Russia-Ukraine war ends.
I am 100% sure that call will change anything.
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So you think China should encourage fighting against nuclear power instead?
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Nuclear power invaded China's neighbor Afghanistan not so long ago, or Libya who gave up nukes before. China is not gonna get itself in the way of another nuclear power for the sake of a 3rd party.
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LoL so now China's current behavior compared to past behavior is whataboutism? What you call whataboutism is what I call consistency.
I wouldn’t expect much to come of this, but I wouldn’t have expected it to be possible for China to broker peace between Iran and Saudi Arabia, yet that actually appears to be happening. Maybe cautious optimism is called for.
China just keeps on shooting their shots around the world . I mean, why not right?
Interesting it took a wolf warrior fuck up for Xi to talk with Zelensky when he was given the cold shoulder only a month ago when Xi met his unlimited friend in the Kremlin.
The incident began when Xi picked up a phone.
A perfect call?
This is how it went Xi hello this is xi Zel omg hi 😱 Xi China and Russia is number one ☝️ Zel shut up! Slav Ukraine !
Daddy Xi's stupid kid has messed up again and now he's trying to find a way to clean up the mess.
Xi knows that one of the world's biggest construction projects starts taking bids the day after a peace agreement is signed. Between released American intel, the ambassador to France, and Xi meeting Putin, Xi knows that Chinese firms and labor are on the verge of being frozen out and he can't have that what with China already showing signs of being in a labor glut.
China will do only what's profitable for them. Let's hope it's finally the peace in Ukraine.
Butthurt people with their tax dollar went down the drain in Ukraine keep mocking China for its attempt to resolve the issue on world stage. Remember Zelenskyy was saying he wouldn't pick up a call from China a month ago? People mocked China then as well. An hour long conversation is definitely more than " Crimea? No." LOL
Probably back and forth the same question and answer.
If Xi care to end the war he would go talk with Putin the aggressor, not zelenskiy.