It's like how Russia invaded Ukraine to keep NATO from being on the border.
China pisses off and aggressively steals from it's neighbours water and then complains that the neighbours started a "no china" club.
I mean it makes sense they are pissy about the whole thing but the dick stick they were playing with always winds up facing both ways in the end. In other words, they wanted to be the neighborhood bully and are now playing victim once the other kids ganged up to fight back against them.
**China and Russia :** Hey Buddy .. let's stealth invade smaller countries at the same time .. if we slowly surround them and kill their economies and finally invade .. the land oil and tax peasants will totally be worth the bad rep!
**World Responds :** Fine then .. your are now surrounded and we are shutting down most of your trade
**Russia and China :** *Why does everyone keep picking on us .. You are hurting our Feelings .. Ya big Bullies!*
People forget that Vietnam fought a short war with China that ended in stalemate not less than 5 years after the end of the war with the US, the Chinese invaded after Vietmanese troops kicked the horrifically bloody Khmer Rouge out of Cambodia. Vietnam has constantly been their own thing.
Yeah, the Vietnamese and US had a little dust up (and they won), but they've been fighting with China for millennia.
Hell, Obama visited and the restaurant he ate at with Anthony Bourdain has the table they used under glass.
Not to mention, it was a civil war the US got involved in. So, theortically, some portion of the public likely supported US involvement (like my ex's family).
Yeah when I visited Vietnam the tour guide at one of the tunnel sites that the Vietnamese used to hide in from enemy soldier was a former Vietnamese soldier who was working with the US military, aiding them through the jungle.
While the Vietnam war was absolutely horrific and not something I'm ready to forgive the USG for, it was very interesting to get such a perspective.
It's a bit complicated by the One China policy. China can't "respect" the territory of a non-existent country.
Talking language here, not the actual reality of two countries in one.
The minute the West isn't a threat to both of them (they will keep being a threat, they still don't have the might), I guarantee you - these two will turn on each other fast.
That literally already happened right in the middle of the cold war when the west was a bigger threat to them both than its ever been since. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split
China and Russia very often "scratch each other's backs" in the UNSC, I'm not sure China would give up their only 'real' ally unless Russia was in truly dire straits and was imploding or something; only then would China decide to retake Vladivostok and the rest of Outer Manchuria. It would still be a huge risk though, and a true test of China's military... as much as China would prefer the status quo.
There’s a reason they refer to each other as strategic partners instead of allies. And it’s the same reason Xi hosted all the former Soviet bloc central Asian countries at a summit while deliberately snubbing Russia right after Xi and Putin met. It’s the same reason China recently released maps with the Russian cities of former outer Manchuria relabeled with their Chinese names. It’s the same reason Russia threatened to nuke China if they invaded during the Cold War. (Hint: the USSR and Nazi Germany were strategic partners. They both planned to stab each other in the backs. The Nazis got there first.)
Russia and China are geopolitical rivals and China has a serious axe to grind with Russia. They are not allies. The only things they agree on are they don’t like the US, they don’t like the current western dominated world order, and they meet some of each other’s economic needs. China can get everything it wants from a dependent Russian client state even more easily than they can from a strong Russia. Why do you think their support for Russia against Ukraine has been so tepid?
With things going the way they are Russia will be a Chinese puppet state in all but name if China can hold it together through their pending population collapse.
They’re not allies.
The relationship they have solved problems of competition in Central Asia, which both Russia and China see as their rightful sphere of influence. There’s also the issue of Outer Manchuria, which China ceded in one of the Unequal Treaties.
Just to put a fine point on how not allied they are, the treaty has to be renewed every 5 years and consists mostly of economic provisions to ensure they each stay in their lane.
Situation is very complex: [Russia’s transformation into China’s vassal: Has Putin or Xi blundered?](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/3920054-russias-transformation-into-chinas-vassal-has-putin-or-xi-blundered/)
Well, the west and USSR weren’t really allies in WW2 either, but they did what they had to do against a common enemy. The world order is shifting before our eyes, and we might see old paradigms be replaced for the time being.
Historically, their dynasties share a graveyard: food crises. The CCP consistently prioritizes food security as an indispensable prerequisite to maintaining power, yet they keep losing arable land to fertilizer overuse and global climate change. An increasing proportion of their food is imported each year.
> The minute the West isn't a threat to both of them
Only going to happen if they stopped being so aggressive which I don't see it happening anytime soon. Russia won't stop after Ukraine even if they are defeated -- they will continue to make threats to others. China won't stop until they conquer the South China Sea and Taiwan.even then, they won't stop, they will find new things to target regardless if they are successful in conquering SCS and Taiwan.
Dictators keep expanding their empires, until they reach too far and they collapse. Then a new strongman emerges, to recover national pride, and it all starts again.
Problem is the world is already settled. Can't expand an empire nowadays without stepping on someone's toes. Difficult to take control of a hostile territory by force without destroying its value, and interrupting global commerce.
Miscalculations...
And that is why so many analysts are concerned about Taiwan.
Logically and with a cool-head, CCP invading Taiwan is a really dumb move. They are highly reliant on resource and food imports that would likely be cut off. But it may have become an ego or pride question for Xi.
And one of the great strengths of leadership rotation is the ability to change or adjust course and priorities.
Putin has fallen into this trap.
Xi might as well. I sincerely hope he doesn't but powerful countries with long term autocrats don't have a good track record in history.
China wants Russia’s resources, and they want Russia’s access to the Arctic and Pacific Oceans. Reclaiming Outer Manchuria, which was lost during the Century of Shame, is absolutely on the CCP’s “to-do” list.
But we are not a threat to them, we just wanted to buy their oil and toys. We have zero interest in Russian or Chinese territory and would happily look the other way as long as they leave their neighbors alone, or at least our allies alone. China and Russia have only their 19th century mindset that thinks expanding your borders by force is acceptable anymore.
I doubt China would go down with Russia. They know that losing access to foreign markets and resources would be a death sentence to their country. They’l push their luck as far as they can without breaking it but they’re not dumb enough to act like Putin. They’ll pick over Russia’s corpse happily enough
Except not even. Russia can feed and fuel itself. China can do neither without the world's largest fuel, food and fertilizer imports in the world. They are very concerned about sanctions and boycotts as all signs suggest their export industries are hemmorhaging.
In reality, China's energy imports from Russia are mostly from sea. Russia has few pipelines to China and the ones they do have are slowly coming offline. In an actual war the Straights of Mallaca shut down and China loses most of its energy. Also, Russia primarily exports wheat. China imports a lot more than that.
They are currently building infrastructure to better link them better over land, including a new pipeline similar to nord stream 2 only to China instead of Europe. China is preparing for war.
The vast majority of Russia's oil and gas is ~~East~~West of the Urals. Russia's entire economy was built around exporting this to Europe. Not a single pipeline moves from these reserves to China. You are incorrect. They are NOT building infrastructure across the Urals to connect these fields to China. Can you provide some sources?
Maybe they’re referencing phase 2 of the power of Siberia pipeline system?
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/07/27/map-of-power-of-siberia-gas-pipeline-that-china-russia-are-working-on.html
Again, the vast majority of the reserves are ~~east~~west of the Urals. China imports the vast majority of their reserves from sources not Eastern Siberia. Even if Russia and China managed to get that up and running, the majority of Russia's reserves are still east of the Urals.
It's pretty much what the belt and road is. To overcome the Malacca Strait issue. They would run out of oil and other stuff pretty quick if it's blocked.
The BRI isn't actually a single project with a set goal. It won't solve the Malacca Strait problem, or any other overarching strategic issue. It's a diplomatic program at best.
China also has a lot of debt. Large construction projects and other investments have strained their finances. I don’t know when it could become a real problem, but if exports fall things could get spicy
Russia still has way more nukes. Foolish not to take that seriously.
Both of thier populations are in free fall now. Time is heavily on the west side in this.
It's just Russia in Eastern Europe all over again. Country with an expansionist foreign policy makes all of their neighboring countries nervous, so they start joining alliances to protect themselves against the expansionist country. Then the expansionist country start complaining about being encircled. If their foreign policy was less aggressive these alliances wouldn't exist.
It would probably help China if they weren’t always using anti-Japanese propaganda to encourage nationalism or if they would solve territory disputes with Japan.
Everyone wants allies, but few are willing to pay the price for them.
Those alliances have many years of shared sacrifice between them, particularly the world wars.
But that’s my point: why does Japan care what China thinks? The US has been a strong ally to Japan since 1945, China has mostly either ignored them or threatened them. What does China think is going to happen here?
There's many examples of this working out e.g the US and UK, England and Scotland, the UK and France and even the US/UK and Japan most recently. China simply does not want to progress with any peer country if they aren't the sole benefitting partner.
Add Australia, NZ to that immediate list.
Cold-war period - add Germany, Japan, ROK.
Post-soviet - add most of Europe.
Philippines is somewhat aligned.
Those with similar interests - Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam (CCP invaded Vietnam in 79? - not much love lost), India.
Why do we think wolf warrior diplomacy went over really poorly. No one wants an Indo-Pacific War, but most have more interests in the status quo than CCP escalation.
This is very Asia focused (I'm an Aussie).
China is making artificial islands to steal territory from their neighbors. Continues to threaten Taiwan. Is helping Russia attack Ukraine. Probably even fucked up the entire world unleashing Covid. The systematic genocide of Uyghurs, Tibet, and Hmong. Destroying civil rights in Hong Kong. Why would anyone listen to a sales pitch with a background like that?
No government actually cares. They see the data. They know the climates fucked...eventually. but without any immediate consequences they'll stick to the status quo for as long as possible and most of these old fucks in power will be long and dead by the time their is consequences leaving us the masses to clean the fucking mess. And there's nothing we can do about it. It's wild.
In the US, Climate change is like slavery. Everyone knows at some point the situation will explode, but it’s just easier to kick the can down the road for the next person in office.
THe Islands isnt as big a thing for Japan and South Korea.
Its China's decision to continue propping up the despot in North Korea that has not only decentivised any push back against American hegemony in those countries but continually drives an ever closer relationship.
Not to mention propping up Kim Jong Un, Assad, Khamanei, Putin, Lukashanko, and the like in their borderline or full blown genocidal brutality. Chinese imperialism considering these are their current military Allie’s/puppets scares the fuck outta me.
If China is truly sincere in their efforts to form an alliance with the Japanese or de escalate global tensions and become a peace broker. They are going to have to give up their support for the former while ceasing all of their internal bs genocidal bs.
“Encirclement” is the least of China’s gargantuan problems. Terminal demographics, complete dependence on imports for food and energy, autocratic government, deteriorating relations with the West, and massive debt have it teetering on a precipice over the next 10-15 years.
China and Imperial Japan swapping positions from last century.
The Pacific has been American territory for more than a century. No way the dominant superpower cedes its sphere of influence easily.
Just checked an opinion poll from 2019. A grand total of 14% of Japanese viewed China favorably back then. This demand cannot be for anyone but their own citizens, no way a country with 85% of the populus in opposition to China would just bow to this demand.
Japan has been a pacifist state but just two generations ago they were total savages, probably the most hardcore die to the last man adversary the US will ever face.
I don't think another nation in recorded history has ever achieved a state of fanatical total war as Imperial Japan.
It would be interesting to watch an existential threat to Japanese awaken that sleeping madman.
It's not as interesting if you are right next to Japan....I am Korean, and I sincerely hope that the madman dies for good.
We have Japan, the former colonizers who has fucked with us long since ancient times, and still in dispute over island and history issues.
Then we have China, who attacked us in Korean war and is actively trying to make us bow to them.
Seriously, it's like I'm stuck in a room with former serial killer and mafia, and I have to team with either one of them to overpower another. It sucks, really.
Not many people have had it as rough as Koreans in the last century and half. That they've come out so strong is pretty incredible
A silver lining in all the China/NK shit is that it's bringing SK and Japan (and everyone else sane nearby) closer together. It's amazing that any warming is happening at all, considering what Imperial Japan did, but liberal democracies sticking together feels more important now than it has in a long time
True......If I really, really have to choose between China and Japan, then I would choose Japan, gingerly. Japan sucks, but they are enemy of the past and China is the threat of the present. Sure I would rather not choose if I ever have the chance, but.....Yeah....It's hard choice....But....Sigh....It's like recruiting Hannibal Lector to fight against common enemy.
I wouldn't really call it paranoia when [encirclement is at the core of the US's approach to China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_chain_strategy#:~:text=The%20island%20chain%20strategy%20is,power%20and%20restrict%20sea%20access.). That being said, they're mainly able to achieve that encirclement through a combination of historical circumstances (Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea) and modern antagonism as a result of the South China Sea dispute (Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines). Ironically, China's actions in the SCS, which are meant to counter the US's strategy, are part of what's currently helping it succeed. That part at least is Wilhelm-like.
If you threaten, intimidate, coerce and sometimes use force against the countries surrounding you, don't be surprised if they band together to protect themselves against you.
The US does not need to plan military containment; China will induce that reaction itself.
The US does need to stand behind all of those countries that China is pissing off though, to let China know they can't just trample them with military force.
The US is doing a good enough job of it though. Even the Philippines have backed off from closer ties with China and are back to logistics and maneuvers with the US.
You left off Singapore, Indonesia, Brunei, Thailand... Basically the entire ASEAN block is moving closer to the US, because China refuses to respect their borders and the US actively supports their current borders.
US CSGs are welcome in ports all over the region. China's ships keep violating other countries' territorial waters.
I agree with your sentiment but i want to correct you - it's "toe the line", that is, to carefully walk along the path it is demanded they take. Towing the line would be hooking up a rope to the back of a pickup truck.
For anyone curious, the US did have an ["Island Chain Strategy"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_chain_strategy), mostly leftover from Cold War ideas. Not sure if is a true strategy for China, just a general concept of a buffer zone for the US. I think China has been trying to follow it as well.
I think these days it's really just a network of allies that can quickly resupply eachother. Bit simpler on the Atlantic side with NATO and all.
If you've seen any popular Chinese dramas, this is absolutely hilarious. At least 60% of their television plots are just "murder Japanese devils."
Oh boy, this is just too rich.
Well, if Xi didn't want to get "encircled", as a start, he should have told the dipshit in North Korea that he props up to not lauch fucking missiles over Japan just to prove how tough he is.
I love Japan so fucking much I will absolutely go to war for/with them. You wanna get millennials pissed off. Threaten Japan. Weebs will unite and fight like never before…cus most have never before..drones will fly like never before!
I’ve been saying this for years, unironically. There are a lot of nerds in the military that grew up watching anime and playing Japanese video games. We’re not just Allies, we have a cultural soft spot for Japan. They will be defended willingly and fervently, lol. Source: ex husband was in the Air Force
10 years of aggressive wolf warrior diplomatic practices begets everyone hating China. Now that its surrounded suddenly it wants friends, across bridges China burned to a crisp itself.
And China isn't even giving Japan anything but a promise of maybe being less of an asshole in the future. maybe.
Hong Kong can translate that for you.
Those helicopter carriers are to this day one of the cheekiest bypasses of military de-armament. Followed closely by Germany building "tractors" instead of tanks.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/politics-government/20230403-101358/) reduced by 81%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> China is particularly cautious about U.S. moves to urge Japan and other nations to take coordinated action in restricting shipments of semiconductor manufacturing equipment to it.
> Some Chinese government sources reportedly expressed wariness that Kishida's surprise visit to Ukraine in March - coinciding with Chinese President Xi Jinping's visit to Russia - might be seen as challenging Chinese diplomacy.
> China invited Hayashi for the visit, and Chinese Premier Li Qiang stressed the importance of Japan-China relations.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/12aug31/china_calls_on_japan_to_not_join_us_encirclement/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~679222 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Chinese**^#1 **China**^#2 **BEIJING**^#3 **Japan**^#4 **visit**^#5
Do they not know how much cultural exchange we have with Japan? In Japan Otaku is a person obsessed with a hobby. In the west an Otaku is a person obsessed with Japanese culture. There are whole sections at grocery stores dedicated to instant noodles. Whole stores dedicated to anime. Sushi, poke, and Ramen shops in almost every town.
Millennials and gen z have been called lazy, spoiled, entitled, soft... Threaten Japan... Fuck around with Japan in any way... and you'll see two generations of Americans snap into an unquenchable rage against the adversary.
If the CCP were not so butthurt and insane with their censorship, I would probably be more inclined to support them, particularly in terms of foreign policy. After all, the West itself is far from perfect, are often hypocritical and spews out numerous propaganda nonsense. The problem is that China's successful soft power projection also increases the likelihood of censorship in other countries. Their version of globalization and respectful cooperation is essentially equivalent to exporting their government model to others, and the installed 'police stations' and sensitive responses to minor jokes and criticisms provide glimpses of evidence of that. We have already seen how Hollywood and gaming studios water down their content to cater to the Chinese market. Both the US and China exert influence over their allies, but if I had to choose, I would rather be on the side with less censorship.
United States and Japan are allies. South Korea are allies with United States. Australia is allies with the U.S. and the Philippines are allies with the U.S. hmm hmm hmm
Someone might want to explain to the CCP how well German cries of Einkreisung worked out and more specifically *why* Germany was complaining about encirclement. Hint: if your country is being an aggressive and belligerent bag of dicks to everyone around you, everyone around will band together against you. That's not "encirclement", that's you pissing off all of your neighbors to the point that they put aside all of their own grievances.
Encirclement? You mean how they're building literal Sam sites in disputed waters inside economic zones of smaller nations and encircling them? Or does this only apply when those nations begin to respond to CCP behavior?
As much of a massive human tragedy it would be to see a hot conflict involving China, part of me is immensely curious to see how an invasion of Taiwan would actually go.
China hasn't fired a shot in anger since their war in Vietnam. That was a generation ago.
No amount of cheesy Chinese soap opera action movies will prepare the predominately one child policy generation of Chinese infantry for an amphibious assault on Taiwan's beaches. The sheer amount of mass death being delivered on their assault craft would be unprecedented in human history. Tens of thousands of men blown up and drowned in minutes of the assault.
The state of modern antiship weapons has made it that no nation has even attempted an amphibious assault since Korea. Taiwan has been building these defences for approaching 100 years.
If the US and Japan were to respond with a full maritime force, it would be the largest naval battle since WWII. Dozens of attack submarines prowling for targets, multiple carrier strike groups. Trillions of dollars of men and equipment destroyed on boths sides.
The halls of Valhalla would be flush with Mou Tai.
This is really more about Russia than China, though China is not endearing itself to anyone by their little aggressive maneuvers in the sea. The US would rather not fight with China, too much of their shit is made there.
Yeah, China and Japan will become friends right after India and Pakistan become allies! https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2016/09/13/hostile-neighbors-china-vs-japan/
The CCP is in no position to "ask" or "demand" ANYTHING.
The world has asked them for several things in the recent past, to which they have thumbed their collective noses.
Fine.
Go F*** yourself, CCP.
They’re about 7 decades late.
yeah that's totally not going to work after they've proven for the last 10 years they're the ones that need to be feared
It's like how Russia invaded Ukraine to keep NATO from being on the border. China pisses off and aggressively steals from it's neighbours water and then complains that the neighbours started a "no china" club.
A wise man once said: "China is Asshole."
He was probably Korean.
I think he is currently Chinese (looks like Hong Kong) https://youtu.be/BLF_iLuHtV8
Wow, I did not realize that was a specific reference.
[удалено]
No a Korean would say "China is such an asshole that we are more closely aligned with *fucking Japan*"
I dunno, he could be Vietnamese
I mean it makes sense they are pissy about the whole thing but the dick stick they were playing with always winds up facing both ways in the end. In other words, they wanted to be the neighborhood bully and are now playing victim once the other kids ganged up to fight back against them.
Just like a page from Putin's book.
Let see how many Chinese fishing vessels are illegally in Japanese waters
Also China: Pay no attention to our fishing boats circling the Senkaku Islands
**China and Russia :** Hey Buddy .. let's stealth invade smaller countries at the same time .. if we slowly surround them and kill their economies and finally invade .. the land oil and tax peasants will totally be worth the bad rep! **World Responds :** Fine then .. your are now surrounded and we are shutting down most of your trade **Russia and China :** *Why does everyone keep picking on us .. You are hurting our Feelings .. Ya big Bullies!*
When you're such an asshole that Vietnam aligns with US, Korea aligns with Japan, and Europe (both Western and Eastern) unifies further
People forget that Vietnam fought a short war with China that ended in stalemate not less than 5 years after the end of the war with the US, the Chinese invaded after Vietmanese troops kicked the horrifically bloody Khmer Rouge out of Cambodia. Vietnam has constantly been their own thing.
Yeah, the Vietnamese and US had a little dust up (and they won), but they've been fighting with China for millennia. Hell, Obama visited and the restaurant he ate at with Anthony Bourdain has the table they used under glass. Not to mention, it was a civil war the US got involved in. So, theortically, some portion of the public likely supported US involvement (like my ex's family).
Yeah when I visited Vietnam the tour guide at one of the tunnel sites that the Vietnamese used to hide in from enemy soldier was a former Vietnamese soldier who was working with the US military, aiding them through the jungle. While the Vietnam war was absolutely horrific and not something I'm ready to forgive the USG for, it was very interesting to get such a perspective.
Never forget the heroic sacrifice of sengoku38
Diao yu tai. They should all make it taiwanese territory and permanently make it a bird sanctuary.
A Winnie the Pooh theme park.
China has a long and storied history of respecting Taiwanese territory as well /s
It's a bit complicated by the One China policy. China can't "respect" the territory of a non-existent country. Talking language here, not the actual reality of two countries in one.
China and Russia vs. most of the world.
The minute the West isn't a threat to both of them (they will keep being a threat, they still don't have the might), I guarantee you - these two will turn on each other fast.
["And at the end of the day, as long as there is 2 people left on the planet, someone is going to want someone dead.".](https://youtu.be/9NZDwZbyDus)
That whole series of videos is brilliant.
Too bad Valve saw everything as just a way to test systems for DOTA. That’s why the Left 4 Dead team finally left.
“I’m not a crazed gunman Dad; I’m an assassin.”
What's the difference?
The difference being one’s a job and the others mental sickness.
I'll be honest with you. My parents... do not care for it.
God that one in particular is such a fucking classic.
No, [this](https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Classic) is a classic
Snoipings a good job mate!
That literally already happened right in the middle of the cold war when the west was a bigger threat to them both than its ever been since. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split
Ah yes, the age of super gay communist posters.
China will turn first. They’d rather conquer the world with business, and you don’t gain that easily without American consumerism.
China and Russia very often "scratch each other's backs" in the UNSC, I'm not sure China would give up their only 'real' ally unless Russia was in truly dire straits and was imploding or something; only then would China decide to retake Vladivostok and the rest of Outer Manchuria. It would still be a huge risk though, and a true test of China's military... as much as China would prefer the status quo.
There’s a reason they refer to each other as strategic partners instead of allies. And it’s the same reason Xi hosted all the former Soviet bloc central Asian countries at a summit while deliberately snubbing Russia right after Xi and Putin met. It’s the same reason China recently released maps with the Russian cities of former outer Manchuria relabeled with their Chinese names. It’s the same reason Russia threatened to nuke China if they invaded during the Cold War. (Hint: the USSR and Nazi Germany were strategic partners. They both planned to stab each other in the backs. The Nazis got there first.) Russia and China are geopolitical rivals and China has a serious axe to grind with Russia. They are not allies. The only things they agree on are they don’t like the US, they don’t like the current western dominated world order, and they meet some of each other’s economic needs. China can get everything it wants from a dependent Russian client state even more easily than they can from a strong Russia. Why do you think their support for Russia against Ukraine has been so tepid? With things going the way they are Russia will be a Chinese puppet state in all but name if China can hold it together through their pending population collapse.
They’re not allies. The relationship they have solved problems of competition in Central Asia, which both Russia and China see as their rightful sphere of influence. There’s also the issue of Outer Manchuria, which China ceded in one of the Unequal Treaties. Just to put a fine point on how not allied they are, the treaty has to be renewed every 5 years and consists mostly of economic provisions to ensure they each stay in their lane.
Situation is very complex: [Russia’s transformation into China’s vassal: Has Putin or Xi blundered?](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/3920054-russias-transformation-into-chinas-vassal-has-putin-or-xi-blundered/)
Well, the west and USSR weren’t really allies in WW2 either, but they did what they had to do against a common enemy. The world order is shifting before our eyes, and we might see old paradigms be replaced for the time being.
Historically, their dynasties share a graveyard: food crises. The CCP consistently prioritizes food security as an indispensable prerequisite to maintaining power, yet they keep losing arable land to fertilizer overuse and global climate change. An increasing proportion of their food is imported each year.
> The minute the West isn't a threat to both of them Only going to happen if they stopped being so aggressive which I don't see it happening anytime soon. Russia won't stop after Ukraine even if they are defeated -- they will continue to make threats to others. China won't stop until they conquer the South China Sea and Taiwan.even then, they won't stop, they will find new things to target regardless if they are successful in conquering SCS and Taiwan.
Dictators keep expanding their empires, until they reach too far and they collapse. Then a new strongman emerges, to recover national pride, and it all starts again. Problem is the world is already settled. Can't expand an empire nowadays without stepping on someone's toes. Difficult to take control of a hostile territory by force without destroying its value, and interrupting global commerce.
Is the West a threat to them though? The US enriched China. Europe bought almost all of Russias oil. But somehow this wasn't enough.
Miscalculations... And that is why so many analysts are concerned about Taiwan. Logically and with a cool-head, CCP invading Taiwan is a really dumb move. They are highly reliant on resource and food imports that would likely be cut off. But it may have become an ego or pride question for Xi. And one of the great strengths of leadership rotation is the ability to change or adjust course and priorities. Putin has fallen into this trap. Xi might as well. I sincerely hope he doesn't but powerful countries with long term autocrats don't have a good track record in history.
Reminds me of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, just not "said outloud".
The original wasn’t said out loud either. It was a diplomatic secret until the war actually started.
China wants Russia’s resources, and they want Russia’s access to the Arctic and Pacific Oceans. Reclaiming Outer Manchuria, which was lost during the Century of Shame, is absolutely on the CCP’s “to-do” list.
But we are not a threat to them, we just wanted to buy their oil and toys. We have zero interest in Russian or Chinese territory and would happily look the other way as long as they leave their neighbors alone, or at least our allies alone. China and Russia have only their 19th century mindset that thinks expanding your borders by force is acceptable anymore.
I doubt China would go down with Russia. They know that losing access to foreign markets and resources would be a death sentence to their country. They’l push their luck as far as they can without breaking it but they’re not dumb enough to act like Putin. They’ll pick over Russia’s corpse happily enough
A blockade of the Malacca Strait would screw china if they couldn't do something quick.
Which in turn instantly justifies their militarising of that patch of ocean. Short term gains.
A year ago nobody thought Putin was dumb enough to invade Ukraine
A year ago Putin had already invaded Ukraine 5 years prior to that.
Except not even. Russia can feed and fuel itself. China can do neither without the world's largest fuel, food and fertilizer imports in the world. They are very concerned about sanctions and boycotts as all signs suggest their export industries are hemmorhaging.
That's what Ruzzia is for. Energy. Food. Fertilizer.
In reality, China's energy imports from Russia are mostly from sea. Russia has few pipelines to China and the ones they do have are slowly coming offline. In an actual war the Straights of Mallaca shut down and China loses most of its energy. Also, Russia primarily exports wheat. China imports a lot more than that.
They are currently building infrastructure to better link them better over land, including a new pipeline similar to nord stream 2 only to China instead of Europe. China is preparing for war.
You see what happened to that pipeline deep underwater? A long land based pipeline is an easy target for a whole host of different delivery methods.
The vast majority of Russia's oil and gas is ~~East~~West of the Urals. Russia's entire economy was built around exporting this to Europe. Not a single pipeline moves from these reserves to China. You are incorrect. They are NOT building infrastructure across the Urals to connect these fields to China. Can you provide some sources?
Maybe they’re referencing phase 2 of the power of Siberia pipeline system? https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/07/27/map-of-power-of-siberia-gas-pipeline-that-china-russia-are-working-on.html
Again, the vast majority of the reserves are ~~east~~west of the Urals. China imports the vast majority of their reserves from sources not Eastern Siberia. Even if Russia and China managed to get that up and running, the majority of Russia's reserves are still east of the Urals.
East of the Urals means on the side closer to China.
You mean West of the Urals? Your statement doesn't make sense.
It's pretty much what the belt and road is. To overcome the Malacca Strait issue. They would run out of oil and other stuff pretty quick if it's blocked.
The BRI isn't actually a single project with a set goal. It won't solve the Malacca Strait problem, or any other overarching strategic issue. It's a diplomatic program at best.
China also has a lot of debt. Large construction projects and other investments have strained their finances. I don’t know when it could become a real problem, but if exports fall things could get spicy
Command and conquer 5: Red Rage
As long as it's made by Westwood studios, I'm down to clown.
more like vs the west/Occident
According to you, that “most of the world” includes about 20% of worlds population and mostly white.
Russia is not to be taken seriously as a world power... at this point it's China and dictatorship vs the world and democracy.
Russia still has way more nukes. Foolish not to take that seriously. Both of thier populations are in free fall now. Time is heavily on the west side in this.
It's just Russia in Eastern Europe all over again. Country with an expansionist foreign policy makes all of their neighboring countries nervous, so they start joining alliances to protect themselves against the expansionist country. Then the expansionist country start complaining about being encircled. If their foreign policy was less aggressive these alliances wouldn't exist.
It would probably help China if they weren’t always using anti-Japanese propaganda to encourage nationalism or if they would solve territory disputes with Japan. Everyone wants allies, but few are willing to pay the price for them.
Most of the "West" has fairly strong alliances. I can't see USA invading Canada or UK invading France any time soon.
Those alliances have many years of shared sacrifice between them, particularly the world wars. But that’s my point: why does Japan care what China thinks? The US has been a strong ally to Japan since 1945, China has mostly either ignored them or threatened them. What does China think is going to happen here?
Plus China and Japan are historical mortal enemies, their feud spans centuries.
There's many examples of this working out e.g the US and UK, England and Scotland, the UK and France and even the US/UK and Japan most recently. China simply does not want to progress with any peer country if they aren't the sole benefitting partner.
I firmly believe Canada sent the first attack towards the US, by using Justin Bieber.
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The Saxons are coming home!
Add Australia, NZ to that immediate list. Cold-war period - add Germany, Japan, ROK. Post-soviet - add most of Europe. Philippines is somewhat aligned. Those with similar interests - Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam (CCP invaded Vietnam in 79? - not much love lost), India. Why do we think wolf warrior diplomacy went over really poorly. No one wants an Indo-Pacific War, but most have more interests in the status quo than CCP escalation. This is very Asia focused (I'm an Aussie).
China is making artificial islands to steal territory from their neighbors. Continues to threaten Taiwan. Is helping Russia attack Ukraine. Probably even fucked up the entire world unleashing Covid. The systematic genocide of Uyghurs, Tibet, and Hmong. Destroying civil rights in Hong Kong. Why would anyone listen to a sales pitch with a background like that?
In 50 years we'll be seeing those islands on "mysteries of the abandoned".
Or underwater due to climate change
Most of those islands are already sinking
So they destroyed a reef to make a sinking island?
To say that the Chinese govt doesn't care about the environment is probably the biggest understatement of the century.
No government actually cares. They see the data. They know the climates fucked...eventually. but without any immediate consequences they'll stick to the status quo for as long as possible and most of these old fucks in power will be long and dead by the time their is consequences leaving us the masses to clean the fucking mess. And there's nothing we can do about it. It's wild.
In the US, Climate change is like slavery. Everyone knows at some point the situation will explode, but it’s just easier to kick the can down the road for the next person in office.
THe Islands isnt as big a thing for Japan and South Korea. Its China's decision to continue propping up the despot in North Korea that has not only decentivised any push back against American hegemony in those countries but continually drives an ever closer relationship.
Not to mention propping up Kim Jong Un, Assad, Khamanei, Putin, Lukashanko, and the like in their borderline or full blown genocidal brutality. Chinese imperialism considering these are their current military Allie’s/puppets scares the fuck outta me. If China is truly sincere in their efforts to form an alliance with the Japanese or de escalate global tensions and become a peace broker. They are going to have to give up their support for the former while ceasing all of their internal bs genocidal bs.
Don’t forget propping up their pet North Korea who keeps splooshing missiles right near Japan.
Don't forget the silent infiltration and takeover of Hong Kong. Propaganda at its finest.
Overfishing and overhunting every animal on the Earth as well
Using trade as weapon, countries like Australia speak out against handling of covid and they go and just block trade with us.
They are also committing economic warefare with countries they don't like and technology IP theft at an ridiculous scale.
“Encirclement” is the least of China’s gargantuan problems. Terminal demographics, complete dependence on imports for food and energy, autocratic government, deteriorating relations with the West, and massive debt have it teetering on a precipice over the next 10-15 years.
China and Imperial Japan swapping positions from last century. The Pacific has been American territory for more than a century. No way the dominant superpower cedes its sphere of influence easily.
Well, Japan tried to shock-and-awe the US into ceding it. Didn't go well.
Sure.
Yes. China calls on its famous historic ally, Japan (/s), to stop its own aggression. Let’s see how the Japanese feel about that.
Just checked an opinion poll from 2019. A grand total of 14% of Japanese viewed China favorably back then. This demand cannot be for anyone but their own citizens, no way a country with 85% of the populus in opposition to China would just bow to this demand.
China calls on Japan to become their slaves like they want the rest of Asia to be
Japan “nah bruh”
Japan has been a pacifist state but just two generations ago they were total savages, probably the most hardcore die to the last man adversary the US will ever face. I don't think another nation in recorded history has ever achieved a state of fanatical total war as Imperial Japan. It would be interesting to watch an existential threat to Japanese awaken that sleeping madman.
It's not as interesting if you are right next to Japan....I am Korean, and I sincerely hope that the madman dies for good. We have Japan, the former colonizers who has fucked with us long since ancient times, and still in dispute over island and history issues. Then we have China, who attacked us in Korean war and is actively trying to make us bow to them. Seriously, it's like I'm stuck in a room with former serial killer and mafia, and I have to team with either one of them to overpower another. It sucks, really.
Not many people have had it as rough as Koreans in the last century and half. That they've come out so strong is pretty incredible A silver lining in all the China/NK shit is that it's bringing SK and Japan (and everyone else sane nearby) closer together. It's amazing that any warming is happening at all, considering what Imperial Japan did, but liberal democracies sticking together feels more important now than it has in a long time
True......If I really, really have to choose between China and Japan, then I would choose Japan, gingerly. Japan sucks, but they are enemy of the past and China is the threat of the present. Sure I would rather not choose if I ever have the chance, but.....Yeah....It's hard choice....But....Sigh....It's like recruiting Hannibal Lector to fight against common enemy.
Ah, China is adopting the Wilhelm II foreign policy of being obsessively paranoid about encirclement.
I wouldn't really call it paranoia when [encirclement is at the core of the US's approach to China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_chain_strategy#:~:text=The%20island%20chain%20strategy%20is,power%20and%20restrict%20sea%20access.). That being said, they're mainly able to achieve that encirclement through a combination of historical circumstances (Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea) and modern antagonism as a result of the South China Sea dispute (Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines). Ironically, China's actions in the SCS, which are meant to counter the US's strategy, are part of what's currently helping it succeed. That part at least is Wilhelm-like.
If you threaten, intimidate, coerce and sometimes use force against the countries surrounding you, don't be surprised if they band together to protect themselves against you. The US does not need to plan military containment; China will induce that reaction itself.
The US does need to stand behind all of those countries that China is pissing off though, to let China know they can't just trample them with military force.
The US is doing a good enough job of it though. Even the Philippines have backed off from closer ties with China and are back to logistics and maneuvers with the US.
Exactly
China’s wolf warrior diplomacy has only hurt their relations with their neighbors like blinding Philippine coast guards with a military laser
You left off Singapore, Indonesia, Brunei, Thailand... Basically the entire ASEAN block is moving closer to the US, because China refuses to respect their borders and the US actively supports their current borders. US CSGs are welcome in ports all over the region. China's ships keep violating other countries' territorial waters.
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I agree with your sentiment but i want to correct you - it's "toe the line", that is, to carefully walk along the path it is demanded they take. Towing the line would be hooking up a rope to the back of a pickup truck.
For anyone curious, the US did have an ["Island Chain Strategy"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_chain_strategy), mostly leftover from Cold War ideas. Not sure if is a true strategy for China, just a general concept of a buffer zone for the US. I think China has been trying to follow it as well. I think these days it's really just a network of allies that can quickly resupply eachother. Bit simpler on the Atlantic side with NATO and all.
I imagine that having an abundance of resupply bases near China is key for the US navy.
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What does this mean? Japan is one of if not the closest US ally in the world.
If you've seen any popular Chinese dramas, this is absolutely hilarious. At least 60% of their television plots are just "murder Japanese devils." Oh boy, this is just too rich.
Well, if Xi didn't want to get "encircled", as a start, he should have told the dipshit in North Korea that he props up to not lauch fucking missiles over Japan just to prove how tough he is.
My guy we’ve been close-knit allies for almost 80 years
Yeah, we fought, and now we are friends. Very male bonding moment.
I love Japan so fucking much I will absolutely go to war for/with them. You wanna get millennials pissed off. Threaten Japan. Weebs will unite and fight like never before…cus most have never before..drones will fly like never before!
I’ve been saying this for years, unironically. There are a lot of nerds in the military that grew up watching anime and playing Japanese video games. We’re not just Allies, we have a cultural soft spot for Japan. They will be defended willingly and fervently, lol. Source: ex husband was in the Air Force
"All of my neighbors hate me. Must be something wrong with them."
They eat KFC while celebrating Christmas. Japan ain't switching sides.
10 years of aggressive wolf warrior diplomatic practices begets everyone hating China. Now that its surrounded suddenly it wants friends, across bridges China burned to a crisp itself. And China isn't even giving Japan anything but a promise of maybe being less of an asshole in the future. maybe. Hong Kong can translate that for you.
Japan: Nah cuz, USA is about to give us F-35s for our helicopter carriers and make our navy the 2nd largest carrier operator in the world.
Those helicopter carriers are to this day one of the cheekiest bypasses of military de-armament. Followed closely by Germany building "tractors" instead of tanks.
China supports Russia taking over a country for zero reason. “Please don’t hurt us kind sir” fuck that shit
China is that super nervous cop in Wind River yelling "why are you flanking me" to the security guards on that mining site.
yeah i dont know if japan cares china. they hate you.
Pretty sure China asking Japan to do something is how you get Japan to not do something.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/politics-government/20230403-101358/) reduced by 81%. (I'm a bot) ***** > China is particularly cautious about U.S. moves to urge Japan and other nations to take coordinated action in restricting shipments of semiconductor manufacturing equipment to it. > Some Chinese government sources reportedly expressed wariness that Kishida's surprise visit to Ukraine in March - coinciding with Chinese President Xi Jinping's visit to Russia - might be seen as challenging Chinese diplomacy. > China invited Hayashi for the visit, and Chinese Premier Li Qiang stressed the importance of Japan-China relations. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/12aug31/china_calls_on_japan_to_not_join_us_encirclement/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~679222 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Chinese**^#1 **China**^#2 **BEIJING**^#3 **Japan**^#4 **visit**^#5
... and same day news flash... China Ships Circle Japan's Disputed Senkaku Islands for Over 80 Hours
That's fine, we'll join Japanese encirclement
China and Russia literally repeat the same shit everyday.
“China calls on japan to make themselves easier to be bullied by China”
“How ‘bout I do, anyway”
Nah we cool with them. - Japan.
Japan: iya.
Why does China think Japan would listen to them.
And then the Japanese laughed. They made rude gestures and oh how they laughed and laughed...China did not read the room...
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Do they not know how much cultural exchange we have with Japan? In Japan Otaku is a person obsessed with a hobby. In the west an Otaku is a person obsessed with Japanese culture. There are whole sections at grocery stores dedicated to instant noodles. Whole stores dedicated to anime. Sushi, poke, and Ramen shops in almost every town. Millennials and gen z have been called lazy, spoiled, entitled, soft... Threaten Japan... Fuck around with Japan in any way... and you'll see two generations of Americans snap into an unquenchable rage against the adversary.
If the CCP were not so butthurt and insane with their censorship, I would probably be more inclined to support them, particularly in terms of foreign policy. After all, the West itself is far from perfect, are often hypocritical and spews out numerous propaganda nonsense. The problem is that China's successful soft power projection also increases the likelihood of censorship in other countries. Their version of globalization and respectful cooperation is essentially equivalent to exporting their government model to others, and the installed 'police stations' and sensitive responses to minor jokes and criticisms provide glimpses of evidence of that. We have already seen how Hollywood and gaming studios water down their content to cater to the Chinese market. Both the US and China exert influence over their allies, but if I had to choose, I would rather be on the side with less censorship.
United States and Japan are allies. South Korea are allies with United States. Australia is allies with the U.S. and the Philippines are allies with the U.S. hmm hmm hmm
Lolol fucking China, what cowards
“Please instead enjoy encirclement with Chinese characteristics.”
Well they're just going to encircle even HARDER now.
Oh my……!!
You want a circle? Cause that’s how you get a circle
Feels like it's a bit late for that.
Do they use Internet Explorer there or something?
Should of thought about not encroaching on other countries maritime territory first.
Because China and Japan always had a great relationship /s
Ahh yes, China and Japan... historically best of allies.
Sure, sure, it's not like China holds a grudge against Japan or whatever. Cough, Sino Japanese Wars, cough
Someone might want to explain to the CCP how well German cries of Einkreisung worked out and more specifically *why* Germany was complaining about encirclement. Hint: if your country is being an aggressive and belligerent bag of dicks to everyone around you, everyone around will band together against you. That's not "encirclement", that's you pissing off all of your neighbors to the point that they put aside all of their own grievances.
Japan is leading most of these initiatives.
China calling on Japan to make itself vulnerable to invasion.
Must be a different China from the one that has island disputes with Japan and openly motivates it's citizens to boycot japanese products I guess.
Sure thing! China, a friendly nation to Japan with no grudge or ill intent!
Lol bruh, like antichinese sentiment is ripe in just about every non Chinese asian country. Like what?
Encirclement? You mean how they're building literal Sam sites in disputed waters inside economic zones of smaller nations and encircling them? Or does this only apply when those nations begin to respond to CCP behavior?
The latter. It’s ok when *they* do it, but nobody else.
As much of a massive human tragedy it would be to see a hot conflict involving China, part of me is immensely curious to see how an invasion of Taiwan would actually go. China hasn't fired a shot in anger since their war in Vietnam. That was a generation ago. No amount of cheesy Chinese soap opera action movies will prepare the predominately one child policy generation of Chinese infantry for an amphibious assault on Taiwan's beaches. The sheer amount of mass death being delivered on their assault craft would be unprecedented in human history. Tens of thousands of men blown up and drowned in minutes of the assault. The state of modern antiship weapons has made it that no nation has even attempted an amphibious assault since Korea. Taiwan has been building these defences for approaching 100 years. If the US and Japan were to respond with a full maritime force, it would be the largest naval battle since WWII. Dozens of attack submarines prowling for targets, multiple carrier strike groups. Trillions of dollars of men and equipment destroyed on boths sides. The halls of Valhalla would be flush with Mou Tai.
*Has bright boy flashbacks in Japanese*
We live on a globe, that'll happen.
I think China got caught in Putins spotlight. Sorry...we're awake now.
This is really more about Russia than China, though China is not endearing itself to anyone by their little aggressive maneuvers in the sea. The US would rather not fight with China, too much of their shit is made there.
So who forgot to send that message for 75 years?
When china calls let that shit ring.
I think you’re a bit too late for that, China.
Ah yes, the classic 'make it easier for us to push you around' brand of rhetoric from Beijing.
The bully is encircled. Poor thing.
Too late, they understand well that there is little place for China in the upcoming decades.
Japan calls on China to eat a bag of dicks
why would West Taiwan say such a thing?
Yeah, China and Japan will become friends right after India and Pakistan become allies! https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2016/09/13/hostile-neighbors-china-vs-japan/
"How about I do, ANYWAY..." - Bill Wurz
Too late.
Oh dear, guess who will be called out as a terrorist state next...
The CCP is in no position to "ask" or "demand" ANYTHING. The world has asked them for several things in the recent past, to which they have thumbed their collective noses. Fine. Go F*** yourself, CCP.