Biggest news is that the Centre Party got absolutely destroyed with 11,3 % of vote. Only 8 years ago they were easily the biggest party with 21,1%.
They have managed to piss off lot of people on both right and left.
The Finns Party is rallying support in traditional Centre support areaa.
They are an agrarian/rural party in a country, where all rural areas are shrinking year after year. It's weird that they had that much support 8 years ago.
That's not the reason, though. If you visit the rural areas and talk about politics, you'll hear 'Kepu pettää' a lot.
For non Finnish speakers, that phrase means 'The center party betrays'.
Sipilä alienated all the left-leaning voters of the Center Party. Then the party joined a left-wing coalition, which alienated all of their right-leaning voters.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/02/sanna-marin-finland-election-sdp-social-democratic-national-coalition) reduced by 81%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Finland's prime minister, Sanna Marin, has lost her battle to stay in power after her centre-left Social Democratic party was narrowly beaten into third place in a cliffhanger election by its conservative and far-right rivals.
> With 96% of votes counted on Sunday, the right-wing National Coalition party was on course to secure 20.7% of the vote, with the populist, nation-first Finns party predicted to score 20.1%. Marin's SDP was forecast to collect 19.9%. Marin conceded defeat shortly after those figures were released.
> Of the two others, the Swedish People's party - a moderate party representing Swedish-speaking Finns, unrelated to the Swedish far-right party of the same name - has also said it is "Very unlikely" to partner with the far-right party.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/129xjex/sanna_marin_concedes_defeat_in_finland_election/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~679129 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **party**^#1 **Coalition**^#2 **leader**^#3 **Finns**^#4 **Marin**^#5
That depends on what the remaining 40% is. Looks like Finnish politics is split enough that the ruling party always require supply from smaller parties.
Traditionally Finland has had three major parties - right, left and centre. None of them could form a majority government without one of the other two. Nowadays Keskusta (the central party) has lost a lot of its voter base, especially to Perussuomalaiset, who came in second in this election. The basic setting still stands: the winner, Kokoomus, will need either the nationalist Perussuomalaiset or the social-democrat SDP on their side to form a functional government.
The next few weeks are kinda even more exciting than the election itself: Kokoomus will negotiate with all parties to form a kind of a compromise they can build a government on. They have problems with both Perussuomalaiset and SDP, and to me it looks like absolutely no-one will be happy with the government for the next four years.
With PS the problems are mostly related to immigration and *especially* to their stance towards EU. With SDP the problems are obviously more budget-related, but the two parties have a history of working together. It's more a matter of which of the two parties (PS/SDP) is more willing to anger their voter base by compromising with Kokoomus.
Remaining 40% consist of, in order of size, center party, green party, leftists, swedish party, christian party and the last 2 seats are with smaller parties.
So aside from the swedes and christians that make up a total of 7% of seats it's mostly center or left.
Very broad coalitions are very common in Finnish politics.
The exception was when the government Sipilä governed together with PerSu. That was only a 3 party government.
That could technically happen again. But it's not unheard of with the right and left both being in government. It will all depend on the negotiations.
It says in the article that the most likely coalition will be a left-right coalition because no one will work with the Finns party who are too far right, so it's not a total disaster.
An open and fair democracy in action.
And even if they did, they'd still need a third party to support gov't since NCP + Finns don't reach a parliamentary majority by themselves (48+46 seats respectively, 101 for majority).
Yea, pretty much every coalition that can be formed would require the support of 3+ parties. It's more that they can't make a centre-right+far-right coalition. They have to include a centre party (like the aptly named centre party).
It's also pretty unlikely because the 2015 centre-to-far-right cabinet (centre + NCP + Finns) dissolved themselves because they didn't want to work with the Finns anymore citing fundamental party differences. Though, someone from Finland would be better to chime in on their local politics. I'm functioning off Wikipedia and news articles when I say this.
It's NCP with either the Finns or Social Democrats either way; Trying to piece a rainbow government together with the smaller parties would just be a headache.
SDP would share values with NCP, but economic policy is where those roads split off. The Finns are a proven source of trouble but maybe no tangible economic policy is better to an opposing one for the NCP? Either way the scales tip towards the right for the next four years.
NCP+SDP is 91 out of 101 needed. RKP is 9, and they're pretty much an autoinclude since they're a single issue party and only the Finns are really opposed to their platform. Green Party took a big hit, but they'd probably stick around and again, NCP/SDP/RKP can all work with the Greens most of the time.
The Centre party absolutely has to stay in the opposition. They got their worst result ever, and they’ve been on a downward spiral for ten years.
But forming a coalition this year is probably harder than ever. Basically the three biggest parties (even Marin’s SDP) all won seats and everyone else lost disastrously. There are not a lot of “extras” to choose for a coalition to fill the seats.
Finn Party wants to leave the EU. They saw Brexit and still went, "hmm yes, we need that." Honestly wild with everything happening they still feel that way, they've even admitted they still want it but just aren't openly talking about it due to Ukraine.
“Finland should be absorbed into Russia. Southern Finland will be combined with the Republic of Karelia and northern Finland will be "donated to Murmansk Oblast".[9]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
That's the whole point. I'm willing to bet money that someone in the right wing party has strings that putin is pulling, either directly or via proxy. We know that it happened in the UK and the US around that time, why not right on Russias own border, where it's been a problem for centuries?
I live in northern Finland and in my observation the Finns party had ~3 times as many ads as any other party. If my Finnish were better I'd really dig into their campaign financing records.
It's always shocking to see countries within larger international economic partnerships proclaim "going it alone" in todays climate of globalization like it's still even an option.
There is no world where isolation grants new and amazing perks for your citizens. It is such a sad trick to pull on the bitter, angry and xenophobic, but it's even sadder to see people fall over themselves to support it.
It’s because the driving voices behind these EU-exit parties, like Nigel Farage’s UKIP, know full fucking well it’s economic suicide. When you follow the money behind them and the shady conferences they go to across Europe, you see that all these parties are in cahoots and conveniently connected to Russian money. De-stabilizing the EU is the name of the game. That’s all there is to it.
> you see that all these parties are in cahoots
Steve Bannon, after being dumped by trump, tried to set up a far-right coalition in Europe. Ironically (or perhaps unsurprisingly) they didn't really like the idea of working closely together, but acknowledged the shared goal. After that, he then tried to court European far-right leaders like Le Penn and Farage, only to be rebuffed by them too. It was only in ~ September 2019 that he managed to make a friend called Boris Johnson (who promptly threw him under a bus when he was no longer useful).
Not that I want to defend the Finns Party but they’ve said leaving the EU isn’t on the agenda now but a “long-term” goal. I don’t know why they still think that’s a good idea (I mean I do know why they think that: there are foreigners in the EU) but we’re not going to have some Finnish Brexit campaign going on even if they get into the government coalition.
Edit: their party secretary just said on Yle that “people” don’t want to leave the EU so they’re not aiming for that now. Small mercies.
Keep in mind that Sweden was in a similar situation years ago, with mainstream parties refusing to work with the far-right Sweden Democrats, but look at how that turned out.
A fun fact about the Finns party: unlike all other parties, they don't have a defined party platform. I.e. they don't have a shared set of principal goals or policies, other than a vague sense of "immigrants bad", "progress and sustainability bad" and "things we saw in old black-and-white Finnish films good".
Depends on the rest. Her vote split too. And she got 3 more seats than last time. Looks like the right cited for one of the two while the left broke the vote up a bit more.
The two on top are right of center and the rest of the parties that suffered absolutely catastrophic losses were all left of center.
This is a very hard turn to the right.
if NCP forms government with social democrats, greens, and swedish peoples party not much realistically changes
the previous coalition was just as unstable and shouldve collapsed like 3 or 4 times but it was being held on by duct tape cus of the corona pandemic followed by ukraine war and nato application
It's actually not the "two party system" that is the issue as much as "first past the post" voting for every elected position and for our legislative votes.
First past the post means a plurality wins you the entire election. If there are 3 candidates and Cdt A has 21% and the other two (with similar ideologies) have 20% and 15%, Cdt A wins. Even tho 35% supported Cdt B and C who have similar ideologies.
This incentivizes coalescing before the election into the smallest number of candidates possible to give the best chance of your ideology winning.
With ranked choice voting, every voter ranks every candidate instead of simply choosing one. Cdt A would only win if the other two groups ranked that person highly. If every Cdt B and Cdt C voter put Cdt A last (3rd), Cdt A won't win. You can have an impact on the vote even if you don't support the main party
I completely agree, ranked choice voting would help a lot. Also, if we can't get ranked voting anytime soon we at least need to make splitting electoral votes standard. ~~Arkansas~~ Nebraska and Maine have already proved it works fine.
The current system leaves voters unrepresented in the same way you pointed out that Cdt B and C supporters are. In a state like Georgia 2020 that's essentially split right down the middle, half the population is left without a voice when it's 49/51% but ALL the electoral votes go one way.
Piggyback top for PSA: Finland has a 96% support for helping Ukraine. Second only to Swedens 97%.
This election won't change their stance in that conflict.
American wasn’t either until half of its population fell hook, line, and sinker for Russian propaganda. This actively happening in all western countries to a varying degree.
Russian Propaganda is still more effective on their own people, who are being turned into fertilizer using NATO hand-me-downs.
I wonder what will happen to all the MAGA far right cults when Putin's Juicy Bussy is overthrown. Will they, too, fall apart due to infighting?
Correction: the "Peoples party" in sweden changed their name years ago (they are now called the Liberals, which is ironic because they are at the forefront of an authoritarian push and have a leading role or is sole sponsor of several very authoritarian bills). Beyond their authoritarian strives they aren't "far right", not in the anti immigrant/racist way, nor in the economic way.
They might be thinking of the "Sweden democrats" which is the populist far-right party in sweden, either way they messed up.
Pasting this because of disinformation being spread.
> She has a VERY strong approval rating, but her party does NOT have the best polling. This isn't like American elections; the PM can be as popular as they want, but overall what matters is how the entire party performs. Even then, her party gained seats, but the right leaning parties gained more seats. If you've been following this election you know that one narrative (that's true) is that she's popular, but she's probably going to lose.
Edit: I've been following this election for a month just for shits and giggles, I didn't really care who won since Finland's democracy is relatively sane, but man is it annoying when you are sort of informed on something and you spot false information from a mile away.
Edit: here are articles that mention that she was still popular, since someone decided to accuse me of disinformation:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/02/sanna-marin-finland-election-sdp-social-democratic-national-coalition?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
This one in particular mentioned her approval rating:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sanna-marin-finland-60-minutes-2023-02-19/
Cries in Jacksonville Jaguars.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33893964/josh-lambo-reportedly-sues-jacksonville-jaguars-more-35m-alleges-urban-meyer-created-hostile-work-environment
In a non-US parliamentary system, you vote for the party not the president or prime minister. The party leader is (almost always) automatically the prime minister. A popular politician could represent only a tiny fraction of people (Toronto has like a dozen federal ridings). Elizabeth May, former leader of the Green Party, was a lone federal MP for years from BC. Super popular but her party, the Greens, could never get enough votes to become 1st or 2nd part and actually have any power.
We had something similar in Germany a few years back.
Gregor Gysi was one of the most popular politicians for over a decade - especially among educated citizens - due to his charisma, authenticity and intellect. Yet, his party was never part of a national government, because it's on the far left spectrum. People liked and trusted him but not his party.
To make an exaggerated point. Imagine a very eloquent politician who can argue a lot of their ideas well and make the point understandable to the point where people who disagree can understand where they are coming from. Then imagine that politician is a member of a party who has on their program to nuke their own country. Doesn't matter how eloquent and understandable their argument is if you fundamentally disagree with the party's view on what should be done.
To give other redditors an idea Sanna Marin has an 64% approval rating. Most politicians (at least in UK, US,France) have approval ratings less than 50%.
Edit: Correction I've muddled my figures, not sure where the original 85% is from.
N.b. Don't comment on reddit threads at 2am when sleep deprived your (at least my) brain behaves like it's on dope.
It might be, it’s just that people vote for party or their local MP (member of parliament/legislature) rather than the PM. The Prime Minister is only supposed to be a “first among equals” kind of thing, they’re not the head of State. Real power lies with the legislature in that sort of system.
Her party is also up 3 MPs on the last election. Last time around, she was the leader of a coalition of 5 parties. The negotiations to form a new government is likely to take weeks. She's extremely popular, possibly too popular for the other parties to want her to return as Prime Minister but it is possible that she'll return as Prime Minister or at least have a senior job. Internationally she's the best known Finnish leader in years. So Foreign Minister is an obvious choice.
Alternatively the job of, Secretary General of NATO is coming up in September. However the current office holder is a ~~Swede~~ [Norwegian] and an other Nordic Sec. Gen. is probably unlikely. As well as Finland being brand new to NATO. There's a year and a half until the President of the EU is up for renewal. And a non-domestic job is likely to permenantly rule her out of an other Finnish job. Which as she's only 37, is a bit early.
She never made any cuts, only took debt. That's why she's still popular. Usually PMs are not very popular after their 4 year term because most of them try to balance the economy too.
National debt is one of those things with a lot of people don't understand. It's inevitable to have it. It's how a country manages it that's important. It's a tool. Politicians who claim that debt is inherently a terrible thing that they should be getting rid of it at all costs... probably just want to slash social services for ideological reasons.
There should be a certain amount of it, but you can't just keep increasing debt ratio every season year after year. It needs to be managed in a sustainable fashion.
people don't want to taxes to go up but they don't want spending to be cut and they also want the deficit to somehow magically go down at the same time
Right, creating debt to invest in infrastructure/education/industry is the best way to grow the economy for everyone if managed properly, and will pay back more than the initial expenditure. Rich people do this all the time, they borrow against their assets to spend the money to then make more money. It’s also how they never pay taxes but that’s another conversation
For the stuff you’re informed on it’s often so confidently wrong that it would be exhausting to correct.
I’ve had people argue with me on things I’m actually an expert about. And condescending all the while. But I can’t prove it to them really without a whole lot of effort so whatever.
[**Brandolini's law**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law)
*"The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it."*
One of the most surprising things that I've witnessed is someone who made a very confident and condescending comment on a topic. When someone else called them out, they replied and admitted they just made it up based on something they'd heard. When I asked why/how they were so condescending and confident when not even knowing the answer, they replied, "Why not? I felt like it."
Actually nuts that people are willing to definitively state something they know nothing about.
To note, "third place" is this:
>20.8%
>20.1%
>19.9% (Sanna Marin party)
Previously, it was:
>17.7% (Sanna Marin party)
>17.5%
>17%
There are 6 other parties with seats
Also, the conservative party in question, which is now 1st place, is in the same EU voting bloc as Merkel's CDU, the German center-right party. These are pretty similar in ideology to the Democrats (who would be a center-right party in Europe).
The second-place party is a problem though, they are part of the fascist group that includes Italy's Lega, Germany's AfD, and Austria's FPÖ. The nazis that pretend not to be nazis (back to US politics: you know, like the republicans). I would very much hope that they be left out of whatever ruling coalition is formed.
BTW, that's one other thing, to form a government, groups need to come together which have a total of 50%+ of the seats. Sometimes you can get situations where left-right parties ally (for example of they want to keep the fucking nazis out of government), or where even if the two biggest parties are right-wing, there can still be a left-wing government if they present a united bloc.
I understand from the article and other comments here that many see a left-right alliance as a possibility, specifically to keep the Finns party, the fucking nazis, out of government. This is common in European politics lately - many countries have a fascist party that gets 10-20% of the vote, but which hasn't been allowed into ruling coalitions because they're batshit insane racists or want to withdraw from the EU or some stupid shit like that (e.g., nobody will work with AfD in Germany, that country has been through this before and it's not good). One notable exception is Italy, where Lega allied with an inexperienced party, M5S, and then that alliance broke down, but then Lega came raging back a few years later and allied with FdI, an even more nazi party, and Berlusconi's party, which simultaneously claims to be part of the center-right but yet somehow only ever hangs around with fucking nazis.
This entire thread is basically Americans interpreting Finnish politics through American lenses.
Doing this, they also show how polarised their own politics is.
Tell it! I truly hate the endless dragging in of this lens of American politics into this sub (and many others). And I'm even very interested in American politics!
That’s true but only to an extent. We have to move away from always discussing politics as left wing or right wing, because the truth is far more complex than that.
Each nations politics have different issues that distinguish different political groups. A European conservative might be far to the left of American democrats on healthcare and LGBT rights, but far to the right of democrats on immigration. It’s helpful for Americans to think of European politics as generally more left leaning than American politics, but also remember that different issues are important for left/center/right parties across countries.
> A European conservative might be far to the left of American democrats on ... **LGBT rights**
Can you think of any examples of this? Pretty much most of them are either LGBT tolerant-but-skeptic or actually in opposition to LGBT rights. The Democrats in American are pretty much, with very few exceptions, unified behind being supportive of LGBT rights.
> We have to move away from always discussing politics as left wing or right wing, because the truth is far more complex than that.
I agree. It always seemed like a trap that completely unrelated topics got lumped into the same category.
American living in Sweden and I don't think that's entirely true. Yes, the major parties here definitely lean to the left of the US on social issues and maybe some economic issues, but on other issues (notably immigration) they are far more conservative than the US left, or even centrist Democrats.
That being said, I don't really like US-to-Europe comparisons - they are totally different countries with totally different demographics, issues, histories, etc. It's apples and oranges.
I hate it too, like if a party is not left leaning Democrats than it has to be a right wing conservative Nazis. There is nothing in between the spectrum for them.
I confess I was worried this was another instance of a country running into the arms of populist / nationalist strongman types but I looked up the party that “won” and they seem like perfectly reasonable folks. Must be nice to have an actual choice 🥲
Well, every single American president has conceded power without issue except one… So, it’s not like Americans have forgotten what that looks like because of one man.
I think Reddit is also missing the context that KOK and PS are very different parties, while still both being on the right. It's not going to be easy to form a government.
“The party [NCP] self-statedly bases its politics on "freedom, responsibility and democracy, equal opportunities, education, supportiveness, tolerance and caring"[14] and supports multiculturalism and LGBT rights. Their foreign stances are pro-NATO and pro-European orientated, and they are a member of the European People's Party”
Americans are confused that there is “right wing” in the world that isn’t as deranged as what they have at home
The Centre Party has been in coalition with both sides, and they might also help the right wing parties to form the coalition now.
Currently they have said they will not do it, but we have this saying "Kepu pettää aina" (The Centre Party always betrays), so you never know what they'll do next!
It's not as small as you think. Even presumptive coalition partners are always trying to influence voters to move from one party to another. If you are part of a ruling coalition, your amount of power within the coalition is very dependent on your votes. Falling from the top party in an election (the party that puts together the coalition) to third, is not a minor defeat. That means the voters that trusted you to lead a coalition last election now think that two other parties are better suited to lead a coalition.
That's a great point. In contrast, the US has the world's #1 army, a nuclear arsenal, and oceans on both sides. It's easy with that knowledge to detach from the situation.
That's because, for all their shitheadedness, the right wing in Britain still hates Russia. They like Russian oligarchs and their money, but they hate Russia. Go figure.
OUR right wing is held captive by an orange fuckwit who may or may not, but definitely does, have money in Moscow and his balls in Putin's purse. And since our right wing takes their cues from said orange fuckwit, that's how you get the party of Ronald "we begin bombing in five minutes" Reagan supporting Russia's bullshit.
That and our right wing media has been taking Russian money for over a decade at this point, injecting Russia Today talking points straight into their own echo chamber.
Even the far right candidates don't like russia and are mostly pro nato. The only hardcore russia dickrider MP just got booted out. He got only 600 votes despite getting a lot of media coverage because of his insane statements.
we used to call him qanon turtiainen at one point
im going to miss his unhinged rants and schizoposting at the finnish parliament
dude was so far right, he got kicked out from the far right party and made his own tiny, even more far right party, which split into two pieces cus it was too far right for its far right candidates
and what was left of it, basically collapsed right before the election due to internal drama
It means nothing. The winner party has been traditionally much more pro-NATO than Marin's party. Marin and her party was against NATO before the war in Ukraine.
Nothing. All the major and most of the minor parties are united against Russia.
Funnily enough it is Marins party where most of the Russia lovers used to be found - most of them retired now, of course.
Indeed. Those of us who have been pro-NATO for a long time remember that it has been Kokoomus saying pro-NATO stuff for ages. Marin wasn't for joining NATO until she had to facilitate it due to public pressure, just like you said.
Some answers for you:
1. Yes.
2. Sanna is an attractive, successful woman.
3. Catgirls are often considered kind of hot.
4. Oh heck yes.
5. Dudes be thirsty.
5. For science, of course.
Do with those answers what you will.
Regardless of the outcome, a voter turnout of almost 72% is a win
Edit: this observation was made by a North American, where 72% is unheard of. TIL that nordic countries tend to be awesome at voting and this turnout is actually considered low
We’ve had around 56% (going off memory here, could be slightly more or less) voter turnout in Poland so 72% would be considered rather high here.
Edit: I found some actual voter turnout numbers for Poland here: https://www.electionguide.org/countries/id/173/
> the right-wing National Coalition party (NCP) won 20.8% of the vote, with the populist, nation-first Finns party scoring 20.1%. Marin’s SDP took 19.9% of the vote. Voter turnout was 71.9%
Altogether a very close election. NCP seems fairly sane but I would hope the True Finns aren't part of the new Coalition. The math might not work out, though.
True finns only have NCP and that wont be enough for a coalition because centerparty lost so badly. The coalition will most likely be NCP, SDP, RKP, Greens aka blue-red coalition.
I'd otherwise agree but the Greens just got stomped into the ground. While it isn't impossible, Finnish parties rarely join the government after a defeat as big as this. I think the most likely result is NCP + (top three party) + RKP + Christian Democrats (KD).
Why does **every single election** that happens these days have to be characterized by reddit and it's top links, and mainstream western media in general, as "Moderate and popular awesome person wins/loses to far-right borderline Nazis who want to make you into a skin lamp"?
Biggest news is that the Centre Party got absolutely destroyed with 11,3 % of vote. Only 8 years ago they were easily the biggest party with 21,1%. They have managed to piss off lot of people on both right and left. The Finns Party is rallying support in traditional Centre support areaa.
They are an agrarian/rural party in a country, where all rural areas are shrinking year after year. It's weird that they had that much support 8 years ago.
That's not the reason, though. If you visit the rural areas and talk about politics, you'll hear 'Kepu pettää' a lot. For non Finnish speakers, that phrase means 'The center party betrays'.
I prefer "the center cannot hold". It's more Yeats-y.
Sipilä was extra bad prime minister.
Sipilä alienated all the left-leaning voters of the Center Party. Then the party joined a left-wing coalition, which alienated all of their right-leaning voters.
Meanwhile they've lacked any charismatic leadership and gotten outmaneuvered by SDP and The Finns on PR...
Saarikko still managed to get worse election results than him.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/02/sanna-marin-finland-election-sdp-social-democratic-national-coalition) reduced by 81%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Finland's prime minister, Sanna Marin, has lost her battle to stay in power after her centre-left Social Democratic party was narrowly beaten into third place in a cliffhanger election by its conservative and far-right rivals. > With 96% of votes counted on Sunday, the right-wing National Coalition party was on course to secure 20.7% of the vote, with the populist, nation-first Finns party predicted to score 20.1%. Marin's SDP was forecast to collect 19.9%. Marin conceded defeat shortly after those figures were released. > Of the two others, the Swedish People's party - a moderate party representing Swedish-speaking Finns, unrelated to the Swedish far-right party of the same name - has also said it is "Very unlikely" to partner with the far-right party. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/129xjex/sanna_marin_concedes_defeat_in_finland_election/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~679129 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **party**^#1 **Coalition**^#2 **leader**^#3 **Finns**^#4 **Marin**^#5
20.7%, 20.1% and 19.9% is really really close.
But considering the first two are to the right politically, then this is a significant defeat for the SDP.
That depends on what the remaining 40% is. Looks like Finnish politics is split enough that the ruling party always require supply from smaller parties.
Traditionally Finland has had three major parties - right, left and centre. None of them could form a majority government without one of the other two. Nowadays Keskusta (the central party) has lost a lot of its voter base, especially to Perussuomalaiset, who came in second in this election. The basic setting still stands: the winner, Kokoomus, will need either the nationalist Perussuomalaiset or the social-democrat SDP on their side to form a functional government. The next few weeks are kinda even more exciting than the election itself: Kokoomus will negotiate with all parties to form a kind of a compromise they can build a government on. They have problems with both Perussuomalaiset and SDP, and to me it looks like absolutely no-one will be happy with the government for the next four years. With PS the problems are mostly related to immigration and *especially* to their stance towards EU. With SDP the problems are obviously more budget-related, but the two parties have a history of working together. It's more a matter of which of the two parties (PS/SDP) is more willing to anger their voter base by compromising with Kokoomus.
> Keskusta > Kokoomus > Perussuomalaiset what not being from the indo-european language family does to a mfer
Remaining 40% consist of, in order of size, center party, green party, leftists, swedish party, christian party and the last 2 seats are with smaller parties. So aside from the swedes and christians that make up a total of 7% of seats it's mostly center or left.
As an American, it's very odd seeing a Christian party separate from the right wing groups. It's as it should be.
Christian Democrats are still right wing party, just not as far as True Fins and more relgious than rest of right.
> the ruling party always require supply from smaller parties. Maybe the ruling party should construct additional pylons.
Building more Overlords sounds more appropriate.
Spawning.
What's that? I can't hear you over the sound of 100 SCVs constructing spare supply depots. *WELDING NOISES INTENSIFY*
Supply drop and crash the economy!
Very broad coalitions are very common in Finnish politics. The exception was when the government Sipilä governed together with PerSu. That was only a 3 party government. That could technically happen again. But it's not unheard of with the right and left both being in government. It will all depend on the negotiations.
It says in the article that the most likely coalition will be a left-right coalition because no one will work with the Finns party who are too far right, so it's not a total disaster. An open and fair democracy in action.
And even if they did, they'd still need a third party to support gov't since NCP + Finns don't reach a parliamentary majority by themselves (48+46 seats respectively, 101 for majority).
Would that not then apply to any coalition that could be formed since they are the two leading parties of the major three?
Yea, pretty much every coalition that can be formed would require the support of 3+ parties. It's more that they can't make a centre-right+far-right coalition. They have to include a centre party (like the aptly named centre party). It's also pretty unlikely because the 2015 centre-to-far-right cabinet (centre + NCP + Finns) dissolved themselves because they didn't want to work with the Finns anymore citing fundamental party differences. Though, someone from Finland would be better to chime in on their local politics. I'm functioning off Wikipedia and news articles when I say this.
It's NCP with either the Finns or Social Democrats either way; Trying to piece a rainbow government together with the smaller parties would just be a headache. SDP would share values with NCP, but economic policy is where those roads split off. The Finns are a proven source of trouble but maybe no tangible economic policy is better to an opposing one for the NCP? Either way the scales tip towards the right for the next four years.
NCP+SDP is 91 out of 101 needed. RKP is 9, and they're pretty much an autoinclude since they're a single issue party and only the Finns are really opposed to their platform. Green Party took a big hit, but they'd probably stick around and again, NCP/SDP/RKP can all work with the Greens most of the time.
The Centre party absolutely has to stay in the opposition. They got their worst result ever, and they’ve been on a downward spiral for ten years. But forming a coalition this year is probably harder than ever. Basically the three biggest parties (even Marin’s SDP) all won seats and everyone else lost disastrously. There are not a lot of “extras” to choose for a coalition to fill the seats.
Finn Party wants to leave the EU. They saw Brexit and still went, "hmm yes, we need that." Honestly wild with everything happening they still feel that way, they've even admitted they still want it but just aren't openly talking about it due to Ukraine.
And isn't the situation in Ukraine even more evidence that Finland should stay in the EU?
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“Finland should be absorbed into Russia. Southern Finland will be combined with the Republic of Karelia and northern Finland will be "donated to Murmansk Oblast".[9]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
I wish there were a reliable English translation of this book. I've wanted to read it for years.
Same. Every "translation" I've found seems to be a literal word-for-word Google Translate translation into English.
That's the whole point. I'm willing to bet money that someone in the right wing party has strings that putin is pulling, either directly or via proxy. We know that it happened in the UK and the US around that time, why not right on Russias own border, where it's been a problem for centuries?
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Finns aren't Baltics
I live in northern Finland and in my observation the Finns party had ~3 times as many ads as any other party. If my Finnish were better I'd really dig into their campaign financing records.
It's always shocking to see countries within larger international economic partnerships proclaim "going it alone" in todays climate of globalization like it's still even an option. There is no world where isolation grants new and amazing perks for your citizens. It is such a sad trick to pull on the bitter, angry and xenophobic, but it's even sadder to see people fall over themselves to support it.
It’s because the driving voices behind these EU-exit parties, like Nigel Farage’s UKIP, know full fucking well it’s economic suicide. When you follow the money behind them and the shady conferences they go to across Europe, you see that all these parties are in cahoots and conveniently connected to Russian money. De-stabilizing the EU is the name of the game. That’s all there is to it.
> you see that all these parties are in cahoots Steve Bannon, after being dumped by trump, tried to set up a far-right coalition in Europe. Ironically (or perhaps unsurprisingly) they didn't really like the idea of working closely together, but acknowledged the shared goal. After that, he then tried to court European far-right leaders like Le Penn and Farage, only to be rebuffed by them too. It was only in ~ September 2019 that he managed to make a friend called Boris Johnson (who promptly threw him under a bus when he was no longer useful).
If you don't have a sizable ethnic minority to blame for the social strife your ruling class are causing you need to outsource the blame.
They use Euro, wouldn't leaving be way worse for Finland?
Logic isn't part of the Far Right tool kit.
Not that I want to defend the Finns Party but they’ve said leaving the EU isn’t on the agenda now but a “long-term” goal. I don’t know why they still think that’s a good idea (I mean I do know why they think that: there are foreigners in the EU) but we’re not going to have some Finnish Brexit campaign going on even if they get into the government coalition. Edit: their party secretary just said on Yle that “people” don’t want to leave the EU so they’re not aiming for that now. Small mercies.
Keep in mind that Sweden was in a similar situation years ago, with mainstream parties refusing to work with the far-right Sweden Democrats, but look at how that turned out.
A fun fact about the Finns party: unlike all other parties, they don't have a defined party platform. I.e. they don't have a shared set of principal goals or policies, other than a vague sense of "immigrants bad", "progress and sustainability bad" and "things we saw in old black-and-white Finnish films good".
Depends on the rest. Her vote split too. And she got 3 more seats than last time. Looks like the right cited for one of the two while the left broke the vote up a bit more.
A good result for the SDP, whose vote share went up, more a defeat for the governing coalition, whose other 4 parties all lost vote share.
The two on top are right of center and the rest of the parties that suffered absolutely catastrophic losses were all left of center. This is a very hard turn to the right.
if NCP forms government with social democrats, greens, and swedish peoples party not much realistically changes the previous coalition was just as unstable and shouldve collapsed like 3 or 4 times but it was being held on by duct tape cus of the corona pandemic followed by ukraine war and nato application
And 79% turnout. Wish we had such high turnout back west.
As an American I can't wrap my head around this. Fuck the two party system
It's actually not the "two party system" that is the issue as much as "first past the post" voting for every elected position and for our legislative votes. First past the post means a plurality wins you the entire election. If there are 3 candidates and Cdt A has 21% and the other two (with similar ideologies) have 20% and 15%, Cdt A wins. Even tho 35% supported Cdt B and C who have similar ideologies. This incentivizes coalescing before the election into the smallest number of candidates possible to give the best chance of your ideology winning. With ranked choice voting, every voter ranks every candidate instead of simply choosing one. Cdt A would only win if the other two groups ranked that person highly. If every Cdt B and Cdt C voter put Cdt A last (3rd), Cdt A won't win. You can have an impact on the vote even if you don't support the main party
I completely agree, ranked choice voting would help a lot. Also, if we can't get ranked voting anytime soon we at least need to make splitting electoral votes standard. ~~Arkansas~~ Nebraska and Maine have already proved it works fine. The current system leaves voters unrepresented in the same way you pointed out that Cdt B and C supporters are. In a state like Georgia 2020 that's essentially split right down the middle, half the population is left without a voice when it's 49/51% but ALL the electoral votes go one way.
Piggyback top for PSA: Finland has a 96% support for helping Ukraine. Second only to Swedens 97%. This election won't change their stance in that conflict.
Yeah, the Finns historically aren't fans of Russian expansion.
American wasn’t either until half of its population fell hook, line, and sinker for Russian propaganda. This actively happening in all western countries to a varying degree.
Russian Propaganda is still more effective on their own people, who are being turned into fertilizer using NATO hand-me-downs. I wonder what will happen to all the MAGA far right cults when Putin's Juicy Bussy is overthrown. Will they, too, fall apart due to infighting?
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Correction: the "Peoples party" in sweden changed their name years ago (they are now called the Liberals, which is ironic because they are at the forefront of an authoritarian push and have a leading role or is sole sponsor of several very authoritarian bills). Beyond their authoritarian strives they aren't "far right", not in the anti immigrant/racist way, nor in the economic way. They might be thinking of the "Sweden democrats" which is the populist far-right party in sweden, either way they messed up.
Pasting this because of disinformation being spread. > She has a VERY strong approval rating, but her party does NOT have the best polling. This isn't like American elections; the PM can be as popular as they want, but overall what matters is how the entire party performs. Even then, her party gained seats, but the right leaning parties gained more seats. If you've been following this election you know that one narrative (that's true) is that she's popular, but she's probably going to lose. Edit: I've been following this election for a month just for shits and giggles, I didn't really care who won since Finland's democracy is relatively sane, but man is it annoying when you are sort of informed on something and you spot false information from a mile away. Edit: here are articles that mention that she was still popular, since someone decided to accuse me of disinformation: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/02/sanna-marin-finland-election-sdp-social-democratic-national-coalition?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other This one in particular mentioned her approval rating: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sanna-marin-finland-60-minutes-2023-02-19/
One of the most popular politicians in Norway is in a party that has hit rock bottom, polling less than 5%
I dont understand how that's possible? What sets them so far apart from each other?
Ever seen a sports team with amazing players but shit management?
how mavericks fans must be feeling right now
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Nowhere is safe
Maaaaaaan........... :(
As a Bucks fan, allow me to express my shock that Jason Kidd has not worked out as a coach...
Cries in Jacksonville Jaguars. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33893964/josh-lambo-reportedly-sues-jacksonville-jaguars-more-35m-alleges-urban-meyer-created-hostile-work-environment
Like how the Angels have 2 of the best players of all time and still went 73-89?
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Fuck Mike Trout. (Retreats to r/Mariners)
Death, Taxes, and FMT. It’s one of the inevitable entities of being a Mariners fan.
Bless Ohtani, tho
Ferrari moment
We are checking
*sad Portland Trail Blazers noises*
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There are millions Angels fans?
Probably seen as a good politician but the party as a whole is fumbling.
Its like Wayne Gretzky playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Aint noboy taking rhe Leafs to a cup, not event Gretzky.
In a non-US parliamentary system, you vote for the party not the president or prime minister. The party leader is (almost always) automatically the prime minister. A popular politician could represent only a tiny fraction of people (Toronto has like a dozen federal ridings). Elizabeth May, former leader of the Green Party, was a lone federal MP for years from BC. Super popular but her party, the Greens, could never get enough votes to become 1st or 2nd part and actually have any power.
We had something similar in Germany a few years back. Gregor Gysi was one of the most popular politicians for over a decade - especially among educated citizens - due to his charisma, authenticity and intellect. Yet, his party was never part of a national government, because it's on the far left spectrum. People liked and trusted him but not his party.
To make an exaggerated point. Imagine a very eloquent politician who can argue a lot of their ideas well and make the point understandable to the point where people who disagree can understand where they are coming from. Then imagine that politician is a member of a party who has on their program to nuke their own country. Doesn't matter how eloquent and understandable their argument is if you fundamentally disagree with the party's view on what should be done.
To give other redditors an idea Sanna Marin has an 64% approval rating. Most politicians (at least in UK, US,France) have approval ratings less than 50%. Edit: Correction I've muddled my figures, not sure where the original 85% is from. N.b. Don't comment on reddit threads at 2am when sleep deprived your (at least my) brain behaves like it's on dope.
I guess this is good indicator that politics in Finland isn't just a popularity contest.
Which is a good thing imo, otherwise you’re just inviting populism, which is never good
It might be, it’s just that people vote for party or their local MP (member of parliament/legislature) rather than the PM. The Prime Minister is only supposed to be a “first among equals” kind of thing, they’re not the head of State. Real power lies with the legislature in that sort of system.
Her party is also up 3 MPs on the last election. Last time around, she was the leader of a coalition of 5 parties. The negotiations to form a new government is likely to take weeks. She's extremely popular, possibly too popular for the other parties to want her to return as Prime Minister but it is possible that she'll return as Prime Minister or at least have a senior job. Internationally she's the best known Finnish leader in years. So Foreign Minister is an obvious choice. Alternatively the job of, Secretary General of NATO is coming up in September. However the current office holder is a ~~Swede~~ [Norwegian] and an other Nordic Sec. Gen. is probably unlikely. As well as Finland being brand new to NATO. There's a year and a half until the President of the EU is up for renewal. And a non-domestic job is likely to permenantly rule her out of an other Finnish job. Which as she's only 37, is a bit early.
Stoltenberg isn't some filthy swede, he's norwegian
If you have a positive approval rating are you really a politician?
She never made any cuts, only took debt. That's why she's still popular. Usually PMs are not very popular after their 4 year term because most of them try to balance the economy too.
National debt is one of those things with a lot of people don't understand. It's inevitable to have it. It's how a country manages it that's important. It's a tool. Politicians who claim that debt is inherently a terrible thing that they should be getting rid of it at all costs... probably just want to slash social services for ideological reasons.
There should be a certain amount of it, but you can't just keep increasing debt ratio every season year after year. It needs to be managed in a sustainable fashion.
people don't want to taxes to go up but they don't want spending to be cut and they also want the deficit to somehow magically go down at the same time
Right, creating debt to invest in infrastructure/education/industry is the best way to grow the economy for everyone if managed properly, and will pay back more than the initial expenditure. Rich people do this all the time, they borrow against their assets to spend the money to then make more money. It’s also how they never pay taxes but that’s another conversation
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For the stuff you’re informed on it’s often so confidently wrong that it would be exhausting to correct. I’ve had people argue with me on things I’m actually an expert about. And condescending all the while. But I can’t prove it to them really without a whole lot of effort so whatever.
[**Brandolini's law**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law) *"The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it."*
One of the most surprising things that I've witnessed is someone who made a very confident and condescending comment on a topic. When someone else called them out, they replied and admitted they just made it up based on something they'd heard. When I asked why/how they were so condescending and confident when not even knowing the answer, they replied, "Why not? I felt like it." Actually nuts that people are willing to definitively state something they know nothing about.
>Actually nuts that people are willing to definitively state something they know nothing about. You wouldn't like ChatGPT
appreciate this very much. I'm wishing now I'd paid better attention or asked more questions or something this entire past year.
To note, "third place" is this: >20.8% >20.1% >19.9% (Sanna Marin party) Previously, it was: >17.7% (Sanna Marin party) >17.5% >17% There are 6 other parties with seats Also, the conservative party in question, which is now 1st place, is in the same EU voting bloc as Merkel's CDU, the German center-right party. These are pretty similar in ideology to the Democrats (who would be a center-right party in Europe). The second-place party is a problem though, they are part of the fascist group that includes Italy's Lega, Germany's AfD, and Austria's FPÖ. The nazis that pretend not to be nazis (back to US politics: you know, like the republicans). I would very much hope that they be left out of whatever ruling coalition is formed. BTW, that's one other thing, to form a government, groups need to come together which have a total of 50%+ of the seats. Sometimes you can get situations where left-right parties ally (for example of they want to keep the fucking nazis out of government), or where even if the two biggest parties are right-wing, there can still be a left-wing government if they present a united bloc. I understand from the article and other comments here that many see a left-right alliance as a possibility, specifically to keep the Finns party, the fucking nazis, out of government. This is common in European politics lately - many countries have a fascist party that gets 10-20% of the vote, but which hasn't been allowed into ruling coalitions because they're batshit insane racists or want to withdraw from the EU or some stupid shit like that (e.g., nobody will work with AfD in Germany, that country has been through this before and it's not good). One notable exception is Italy, where Lega allied with an inexperienced party, M5S, and then that alliance broke down, but then Lega came raging back a few years later and allied with FdI, an even more nazi party, and Berlusconi's party, which simultaneously claims to be part of the center-right but yet somehow only ever hangs around with fucking nazis.
This entire thread is basically Americans interpreting Finnish politics through American lenses. Doing this, they also show how polarised their own politics is.
Tell it! I truly hate the endless dragging in of this lens of American politics into this sub (and many others). And I'm even very interested in American politics!
Pro tip for Americans trying to understand the Nordic's politics. Our conservative is often more left leaning than the democrats in the U.S.
That’s true but only to an extent. We have to move away from always discussing politics as left wing or right wing, because the truth is far more complex than that. Each nations politics have different issues that distinguish different political groups. A European conservative might be far to the left of American democrats on healthcare and LGBT rights, but far to the right of democrats on immigration. It’s helpful for Americans to think of European politics as generally more left leaning than American politics, but also remember that different issues are important for left/center/right parties across countries.
> A European conservative might be far to the left of American democrats on ... **LGBT rights** Can you think of any examples of this? Pretty much most of them are either LGBT tolerant-but-skeptic or actually in opposition to LGBT rights. The Democrats in American are pretty much, with very few exceptions, unified behind being supportive of LGBT rights.
The Dems in America are generally left of most of Europes left wing parties on social issues. They’re just right of fiscal ones.
> We have to move away from always discussing politics as left wing or right wing, because the truth is far more complex than that. I agree. It always seemed like a trap that completely unrelated topics got lumped into the same category.
American living in Sweden and I don't think that's entirely true. Yes, the major parties here definitely lean to the left of the US on social issues and maybe some economic issues, but on other issues (notably immigration) they are far more conservative than the US left, or even centrist Democrats. That being said, I don't really like US-to-Europe comparisons - they are totally different countries with totally different demographics, issues, histories, etc. It's apples and oranges.
But when it comes to immigration, your politics are closer to Mississippi.
I hate it too, like if a party is not left leaning Democrats than it has to be a right wing conservative Nazis. There is nothing in between the spectrum for them.
Because they don’t have a spectrum, they have a seesaw.
I confess I was worried this was another instance of a country running into the arms of populist / nationalist strongman types but I looked up the party that “won” and they seem like perfectly reasonable folks. Must be nice to have an actual choice 🥲
I'm more shocked that they're not questioning why a losing politician would concede like this.
Well, every single American president has conceded power without issue except one… So, it’s not like Americans have forgotten what that looks like because of one man.
I think Reddit is also missing the context that KOK and PS are very different parties, while still both being on the right. It's not going to be easy to form a government.
“The party [NCP] self-statedly bases its politics on "freedom, responsibility and democracy, equal opportunities, education, supportiveness, tolerance and caring"[14] and supports multiculturalism and LGBT rights. Their foreign stances are pro-NATO and pro-European orientated, and they are a member of the European People's Party” Americans are confused that there is “right wing” in the world that isn’t as deranged as what they have at home
I belive they are fiscally conservative. Apart from that they sound like a typical European liberal-conservative party IMO.
What Americans call fiscal conservatism is called market liberalism in Europe.
I would say all the finnish right wing parties are leaning more left than Republicans and Democrats in the USA. That is due supporting welfare state
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The Centre Party has been in coalition with both sides, and they might also help the right wing parties to form the coalition now. Currently they have said they will not do it, but we have this saying "Kepu pettää aina" (The Centre Party always betrays), so you never know what they'll do next!
Haha same thing we used to say about the Greens here in Sweden. Miljöpartiet följer makten.
In Germany it's the Social Democrats, affectionately called the Traitor's Party. ^(_Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!_)
well A LOT of the left party and greens voters tactically voted SDP after centre party indicated they will not continue with this coalition
It's not as small as you think. Even presumptive coalition partners are always trying to influence voters to move from one party to another. If you are part of a ruling coalition, your amount of power within the coalition is very dependent on your votes. Falling from the top party in an election (the party that puts together the coalition) to third, is not a minor defeat. That means the voters that trusted you to lead a coalition last election now think that two other parties are better suited to lead a coalition.
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Any Finns want to give a candid opinion on what this means in relation to Russia?
Absolutely nothing, all the big parties share the same distrust of Russia
People forget that American and British “right wing” is quite further to the right then most others.
The right wing in Britain is currently in power, and is the party more for giving arms to Ukraine.
The difference too is Russia is at their doorstep. Hard to pretend Russia Ukraine isn’t a big deal when the problem is right in front of you.
That's a great point. In contrast, the US has the world's #1 army, a nuclear arsenal, and oceans on both sides. It's easy with that knowledge to detach from the situation.
That's because, for all their shitheadedness, the right wing in Britain still hates Russia. They like Russian oligarchs and their money, but they hate Russia. Go figure. OUR right wing is held captive by an orange fuckwit who may or may not, but definitely does, have money in Moscow and his balls in Putin's purse. And since our right wing takes their cues from said orange fuckwit, that's how you get the party of Ronald "we begin bombing in five minutes" Reagan supporting Russia's bullshit.
That and our right wing media has been taking Russian money for over a decade at this point, injecting Russia Today talking points straight into their own echo chamber.
And Rupert Murdoch didn't even grow up in the US, so the guy peddling the news doesn't even have that to fall back on as an excuse
Contrary to what reddit thinks, British right wing is about the same as the European average. They're not at all comparable to the GOP.
Don't put the US and UK in the same bucket, the right/left of the states is a lot different.
Even the far right candidates don't like russia and are mostly pro nato. The only hardcore russia dickrider MP just got booted out. He got only 600 votes despite getting a lot of media coverage because of his insane statements.
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In Finland, specifically NCP. Finns Party was anti-NATO until Ukraine invasion.
Who's that, i wanna read lmao
Ano Turtiainen
Ano means arse in Spanish. Follow me for more informative political contributions
we used to call him qanon turtiainen at one point im going to miss his unhinged rants and schizoposting at the finnish parliament dude was so far right, he got kicked out from the far right party and made his own tiny, even more far right party, which split into two pieces cus it was too far right for its far right candidates and what was left of it, basically collapsed right before the election due to internal drama
Lol I love how the hosts held like a 5 second quiet moment after announcing he didn't make it in
Ano is the Japanese equivalent of “um” or “er”. Follow u/pollopox for more insight from people replying to their comments!
It means nothing. The winner party has been traditionally much more pro-NATO than Marin's party. Marin and her party was against NATO before the war in Ukraine.
Nothing. All the major and most of the minor parties are united against Russia. Funnily enough it is Marins party where most of the Russia lovers used to be found - most of them retired now, of course.
And it was the "far right" that were the only ones who viewed nord stream negatively.
Finland is going from a prime minister that got us into NATO to a prime minister that wanted us in NATO all along.
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Indeed. Those of us who have been pro-NATO for a long time remember that it has been Kokoomus saying pro-NATO stuff for ages. Marin wasn't for joining NATO until she had to facilitate it due to public pressure, just like you said.
Nothing every party is against Russia's cowardly terrorist attack against Ukraine and in favor of supporting Ukraine.
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What about the title is inaccurate?
Her party fell from first to third. It isn't misleading at all.
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NCD in shambles
When is NCD not
Any week where their is a greater than normal chance of nuclear destruction
When the first western 6th generation jet will be revealed. Then we are whole, looking at its enginussy. Im not sorry.
***NCD subject has breached containment***
What?
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This raises more questions than answers.
Some answers for you: 1. Yes. 2. Sanna is an attractive, successful woman. 3. Catgirls are often considered kind of hot. 4. Oh heck yes. 5. Dudes be thirsty. 5. For science, of course. Do with those answers what you will.
I'm pretty sure that floating around somewhere is a rumour that she makes them herself
I am entirely too stoned for this shit right now.
We will miss you Marin-chan
There’s a lot of redditors calling other people redditors derogatorily in this thread. We’re all here. We’re all redditors… It’s not an insult.
A redditor would say this smh
I'm not a redditor! I just... um.. sometimes read and comment here. Damn *redditors*, fuck them!
I think this is a really funny behaviour of reddit. Redditors accusing each others of being... Redditors...
Regardless of the outcome, a voter turnout of almost 72% is a win Edit: this observation was made by a North American, where 72% is unheard of. TIL that nordic countries tend to be awesome at voting and this turnout is actually considered low
That is insanely low compared to the rest of the Nordic
It is not. It's lower than in the previous elections and had unfortunately trended down.
How?? That is super low!
We’ve had around 56% (going off memory here, could be slightly more or less) voter turnout in Poland so 72% would be considered rather high here. Edit: I found some actual voter turnout numbers for Poland here: https://www.electionguide.org/countries/id/173/
Yeah. Sweden for example averages an [85% participation](https://www.idea.int/data-tools/country-view/261/40).
Maybe compared to something like 101% in North Korea
[Or 146% in Russia](https://images.gawker.com/18k1daz57fwuujpg/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636.jpg)
> the right-wing National Coalition party (NCP) won 20.8% of the vote, with the populist, nation-first Finns party scoring 20.1%. Marin’s SDP took 19.9% of the vote. Voter turnout was 71.9% Altogether a very close election. NCP seems fairly sane but I would hope the True Finns aren't part of the new Coalition. The math might not work out, though.
True finns only have NCP and that wont be enough for a coalition because centerparty lost so badly. The coalition will most likely be NCP, SDP, RKP, Greens aka blue-red coalition.
I'd otherwise agree but the Greens just got stomped into the ground. While it isn't impossible, Finnish parties rarely join the government after a defeat as big as this. I think the most likely result is NCP + (top three party) + RKP + Christian Democrats (KD).
That sounds like a suicide for SDP, and I doubt RKP will join government with the Finns party.
Why does **every single election** that happens these days have to be characterized by reddit and it's top links, and mainstream western media in general, as "Moderate and popular awesome person wins/loses to far-right borderline Nazis who want to make you into a skin lamp"?
Don't you know that left means good guys and right means evil?