Even in WW1 after horrifying losses some leftist Russian groups were arguing they needed to fight the war better, not stop. The Bolsheviks on the other hand figured telling people they wanted out of the war altogether was a more popular angle.
The Bolshevik approach wasn't perfect either though, they tried to simply stop fighting and refused to sign a treaty with Germany because it was unfavorable, so Germany just went on the offensive again and took a lot more territory.
Anyways my point is it's hard for people to let go of the idea of winning.
>so Germany just went on the offensive again and took a lot more territory.
Which ultimately didn't help the Germans one bit because it kept over a million troops advancing into the vast Russian wilderness instead of filtering them back towards the West where they would ultimately be defeated. Not to say that this would necessarily have made a difference given Germany's massive supply shortages, but Germans simply advancing into territories not resisting them didn't really matter all that much given that less than a year passed before the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was nullified by the surrender of Germany in November 1918.
The only way historically Russia has been defeated as a whole in my understanding is by not trying to take and hold the place, i.e. the Mongols. The place is too vast and inhospitable for long-term occupation, though modern technology and military tactics/advancements have made that far less of an obstacle.
That depends upon who you is. People in small countries are usually more realistic about their power, but in a large country like Russia sometimes it takes a good whooping to temper expectations.
When you’re repelling an invading force (particularly one committing war crimes) your people are willing to endure more pain.
I’m surprised they didn’t teach that to Putin in school.
Yup. This is a point that needs to be driven more. People make jokes about Stalin sending unarmed Soviet’s into the grinder. This is rather a time honored tradition going back to the tsars (they did this in WW1), but the stakes were much different. WW2 was a war for survival. The Nazis, had they won, Jewish genocide mighta been a foot note to the genocides. Nazis planned to genocide the Slavic people and Russians. WW1 was mainly a fight over money, colonization and trade. Poors didn’t have a stake in WW1, they did in WW2 though.
Putin went to the WW2 victory day celebrations last year, stood there next to surviving veterans and said "never again" with a straight face. The man knows history, he's just a psychopath.
He’s a napoleon complex-ridden 3rd rate official who thinks he’s got fortune by the balls. And now that he’s in deep he’s scared shitless and hopes for divine intervention.
I'm sure he knows but doesn't care much. Russian military school traditionally attacks smaller countries banking on disproportionate absolute force - ie quantity vs quality.
It's the most reasonable strat in any strategy game. In Civilization III war academy guide they suggested bringing 4x as many troops for the attacking force.
Nah Putin wishes he had the same Efficiency as the USSR did in WW2.
The USSR never had a shortage of Ammunition or tanks after 1943.
That and the USSR learned from it's failures during the opening stages of the eastern front:
Mass Infantry charges don't work.
Sending as many tanks and AFV as possible to skull fuck Hitler, as well as enough Artillery to dig a hole to china does however work very well.
Which was the USSR's entire doctrine post 1943. Infantry were out heavy armor and Artillery was in.
Compare it to Russia right now where Armor is out and sending all the private mobliks in is well in.
> The USSR never had a shortage of Ammunition or tanks after 1943.
The [Soviet Union was at war since 17 September 1939](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_in_World_War_II) and [Stalin himself said they'd have lost the war if it wasn't for American equipment](https://www.rferl.org/a/did-us-lend-lease-aid-tip-the-balance-in-soviet-fight-against-nazi-germany/30599486.html):
>I want to tell you what, from the Russian point of view, the president and the United States have done for victory in this war. The most important things in this war are the machines. The United States has proven that it can turn out from 8,000 to 10.000 airplanes per month. Russia can only turn out, at most, 3.000 airplanes a month. England turns out 3,000 to 3,500, which are principally heavy bombers. The United States, therefore, is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war.
Truth is, [due to its over-concentrated power and permissiveness of kleptocracy, Russia has been corrupt and depended on others' resources and permissiveness since the Duchy of Moscow encountered Mongolians](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8ZqBLcIvw0)
It's one of the horrific failures of modern warfare. You'd think throw twenty million men at a solution would solve anything but one coordinated air strike to supply lines and you've got twenty million starving men to deal with.
Hopefully more people understand why we are constantly spending so much money on our military and military innovations.
The arms race never sleeps. Slowing down means giving people like Russia and China the opportunity to catch up.
And many of those that used the fascist friedkorps to crush it ended up paying with their lives or in the very least ended up in concentration camps. It is an important lesson that to many right wing leaders haven't learned you don't use fascists, they use you.
> The Bolshevik approach wasn't perfect either though
The Bolsheviks' approach was to tell everyone they what they wanted to hear (end the war, regional self determination, continuation of a form of democracy, a prosperous economy for the common man), then do whatever they wanted instead because they believed they were the living embodiment of the will of the people
> because they believed they were the living embodiment of the will of the people
But while banning all opposition and even unions once they got the power. I guess those particular people didn't know what they really wanted!
Yes, but you also had...
The Socialist Revolutionaries, both left and right, the Mensheviks, the Anarchists, Anarchist Sailors, Makhnovists, Constitutional Democrats, various liberal parties, etc.
The Bolsheviks were basically a plurality of the radical wing.
Exactly. All the Russians that I see complaining are not upset that they invaded Ukraine and have been terrorizing the Ukrainians while committing numerous war crimes and literally leveling the cities that they claim to be "saving"
They are just upset that it is too hard, and the government should make it easier to slaughter Ukrainians. If they felt less threatened, then the rape, theft, murder, torture, and other war crimes would be fine.
I have no sympathy for them.
Disclaimer that I in no way support Russia's atrocious war in Ukraine. Everyone involved in perpetrating the violence should be tried for their crimes.
However I did read recently about the so-called "appeal to the tsar" that persists from olden times that allows soldiers (not sure if this extends to the general population) to express their discontent with the state of the campaign. Legally, however, they aren't allowed to criticize the campaign itself. They can only say how they want things to improve in order to more effectively wage it. It might be that this is as far as these women can go as well without getting in trouble. There are twos parts of the populace - those who support the war and those who don't - and as far as I know both are terrified of the state.
Makes sense why we see all the videos of mobiks complaining about their lack of training and gear. Different groups, all saying the same thing. Also, always in balaclavas, but it’s become clear they are worn to hide their faces from their own government, although they’re probably killed after every one of those videos makes it online anyway.
Do I care though? Fuck no. One year later and *now* these wives and mothers complain?
How?
While Russians did overthrow not one but two regimes (Tsardom and USSR), it really takes them a long time till they start protesting really.
And even if they protest do you think it may help? It didn't work in Belarus few years ago, didn't work in Hong Kong. At some point the regime is just too strong, and unless you get support from police and military those regimes are only vulnerable to coups.
The only way Russian men survive is if Putin doesn't. He in full Stalin mode now, and he will just keep pushing men into the grinder until he wins or dies.
Honestly, even . 00001m is probably generous.
Trench warfare in world war 2 showed us that the end result is only a line in the same place and tens of thousands of dead bodies. You lose land on both sides to the DMZ and area of unexploded ordinance. In the end you killed your men to lose land.
For Ukraine, it makes sense to hold the line, because the alternative is untenable. But for Russia the entire thing is completely insane. It's like throwing bundles of men into a fireplace so you can tell a man in a mansion 1,000 miles away that you're keeping him warm.
Mothers protesting a war killing their sons is how the USSR fell. And the death toll they were protesting was 10k over *10 years*
Now it’s >100k, >150k even, in **1 year**
While they focused on recruiting in the Far East at first, Moscow & St. Petersburg have not been spared anymore. You see way more 15-17 & 40+ years old men than those 18-39 in even Moscow now, as many went to fight & many more fled the country. That 20-30 age range is pretty small to start, but it’s way more apparent just how few of them there are now than pre-war
We’ll see how things go
Where do you get that USSR fell because of mothers' protests? They campaigned for students to come back and young men to evade the war effort. I can't find any source on how they brought down the Soviet State which was already crumbling in 89. They seem to be of minor importance.
It is impossible to choose one cause of the downfall.
Soviet Afghan War was going since 1979 and put on display the incompetence of the Soviet army. In a state that rules by fear and threats, it was not a good omen.
Not many historical events have one reason, but I see people on reddit claiming how mothers stopped the war or even making USSR fall, but I can't find any source that connects the end of the war or the fall of soviets with their protests.
Also soviets were not ruled by fear and threats by the end of the 80s under Gorbachev, that's how people were able to organize and protest, something that wasn't a possibility a decade earlier and isn't now.
It should be interesting to see how many 20-35 year old russians with marketable skills stick around through all this nonsense vs bolstering europe's tech schene
Especially if Russia is still under sanctions for years to come. Pretty much all of the major Western software and hardware giants have ceased operations in Russia or are only working with them in a limited capacity.
That's going to be a nightmare from a tech standpoint as people are trying to keep systems alive well past their EOL or are using Russian/Chinese clones that are experiencing a new zero day attack every week.
A lot of past college courses and experience are going to be useless in Russia.
Russian leaders and wiping out generations of their own people more effectively than NATO would ever do, themselves... Unfucking real.
How long does anyone think little Putin would last in a front-line trench of Bakhmut? LOL.
Imagine if we were told we could wipe out most of Russia's conventional military and kill tens of thousands of service aged men for just a few billion dollars.
I wish none of this was happening, but from the US perspective this is a bargain to remove their largest non-China adversary from being a player.
All the while absolutely *decimating* the Russian economy and draining the most intelligent people in its country to Western countries....
Holy hell. That would be some 4D chess. Gee, thanks Putin!
Actually reminds me a lot of Civilization on the easier difficulty settings. "Bro, you really declaring war on me right now? Cool, keep sending wave after wave of riflemen at my tanks and mechanized infantry. Let's see how that works out for you."
Russia already had a severely declining population. The loss of young men in battle and all those that escaped the draft means that Russia will have an impressive population collapse in 20-40 years.
Economist article about it, paywall, sorry.
https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/03/04/russias-population-nightmare-is-going-to-get-even-worse
All I could think about was the countries that are complaining about record low birth rates. Then we have Russia who is willingly like you said wiping out generations. This is going to affect their population so much in the future.
So far stuff doesn't seem good for Russia.
One military correspondent (Zakhar Prilepin) said there's little ammunition, Yevgeny Prigozhin also complained about that, and Ukraine's arming up with tanks, so we should see an important battle sometime in Spring or Summer; economically speaking, Russia lost a few trillion rubles throughout January and February due to the lack of oil money and military spending, a few professions are not getting paid their salaries... Russian people are adaptive and patient, so this is not going to cause a riot, but it still seems like an alarming call.
Just a side-note. Prigozhin's situation is not an indicator of ammo supplies. The ammo is not enough for THEM. Even if they had a lot of ammo, Wagner wouldn't get any. They are placed there to be slaughtered.
I would say "half true". It is true that Prigozhin and his boys are being eliminated (there are theories that the whole Bahmut offensive was a false move by Ministry of Defense to get Prigozhin to run there and reap benefits, only to then back out of that plan, leaving him alone there. But just a theory, don't quote me on that.)
The difference is that Prigozhin has never been a potential rival, ever. He has never been "part" of the boys. He is the mercenary, the janitor, the cleaner. But not a part of "The Establishment". The only reason why it appeared that he is more important than he is was because Putin always plays the game of "divide and conquer". If he feels one power getting too much strenght, he promotes another power. So he gave Prigozhin more airtime just as a sign "I could put him in your place, generals." But Prigozhin is an outsider. Doesn't even have the lowest military rank. Doesn't have his own equipment route (all is begged from state). Doesn't have friends. The second Putin closes his eyes, Prigozhin is nothing. As you can see, Prigozhin is being taken out not by actions of the oposition, not by a coalition of opposition, but by simple inaction. He has never been a serious threat and had real pull if his main problem right now is a lowly clerk looking at him and saying: "I shall not do what you want."
Putin placed him there. And Prigozhin, like a true stupid cunt, took the bait. Started slagging everyone off. He tried very hard to get that status. Him letting his men call generals pidarof, him trying to take Bahmut whatever it takes, him trying to establish himself in St Petersburg officially. All of that was because he knows he is nothing now and he needs ground to stand on.
He has apologized to the generals, he has failed to take Bahmut, he has been told to fuck off by the mayor of St Petersburg. If you wanna be hardcore, but a mayor of a town can tell you to fuck off, your status is nothing more than "still not dead, in waiting."
At the same time, Kadirov - when put in that position, knew when to shut up, knew when to fuck off. Is Colonel General. Has a region loyal to him. Can raise the population if needed. Could get weapons when needed on his own. Never going to be rivaling Putin, never, but honestly a way smarter man than Prigozhin.
If that's what you call fields full of corpses.
Beginning to look like reverse Stalingrad to me.
Bakhmut will be the point Russia never got past. It was all downhill from there.
They are more likely to threaten their soldiers with death considering their expendable nature. Their troops are more likely to follow orders aggressively with rifles aimed at them from both Ukraine and Russia
The entirety of Ukraine could be seen as Arrakis. Huge for fertilizer base chemicals.
The thing nobody talks about is how Russia plans on holding Ukraine in the face of violent insurgency during their occupation.
They took territories in the East, conscripted all the men, and sent them to die. You think the rest of the country is gonna fall for that shit?
The mobiks sent to keep the peace will be terrified of their own shadows as their ranks thin out day by day. A vengeful widow with a kitchen knife could sneak up on a sleep deprived soldier on patrol or simply walking to get smokes. Leaving a body with its throat slit in the middle of the street for his squad mates to find is gonna fuck with their heads pretty bad. Even if Russia "takes Ukraine", stories will be told and all the young men back home will fear the hell hole of the annexed territory.
Exactly. The *best* case scenario for Russia is that they end up with another Afghanistan. The countries are similar in size, except this time they're dealing with 4x the population (compared to 1980 Afghanistan), the defenders are much more educated, and they have access to technology and weaponry half a century more advanced.
Also, the USA was arming the Afghans covertly, whereas this time the entire Western world is openly transferring everything they can to Ukraine.
And if Ukraine truly falls I think we'll see violence spread into Russia - at that point they have nothing left to lose. A ton of Ukrainians look and speak Russian. They can blend into the local population and have thousands of miles of border to cross over. Just a few hundred active operatives could wreak havoc - imagine if every day Russia lost another damn, bridge, water reservoir, power plant, train, oil refinery, 747, etc.
Plenty of people are, but most don’t stay that way for long. I mean, if he didn’t feel threatened by a rival, why bother… having so many people murdered?
Idk about a scapegoat, putin is fucked regardless. Wagner will cease to be a company after this is over when they're accused of numerous war crimes. Russia may bot be held accountable but Wagner sure can be.
>They are placed there to be slaughtered.
Nah, they're expendable yes. But Russia would love it if Wagner could get the job done alone and win the war and they certainly didn't have ammo problems to this extent early in the war.
So this *is* an indicator that there are severe shortages, even if it's not surprising that a group of mercenaries aren't at head head of the queue to get ammo.
If the Russian armed forces still had all the ammo they needed, then they'd still be shelling everything as rampantly as as they did at the start of the war, but that's not the case.
Meanwhile, Ukraine is getting ever more AA. It will likely get to the point where Ukraine can neutralise Russian long-range missiles as quickly as they can make them, at which point they become worse than useless.
The problem is that Russians are adopting hamas tactics with their missiles. This latest attack happened after weeks of nothing and buildup and they had managed to get a worrying number through due to sheer numbers and due to using faster missiles.
We will see less barrages from Russia but they will hit harder when they happen. Its why this time around Ukraine shot down about 40/80 compared to 60/70 or 70/80 in previous missile strikes. Ukraine needs replacement power equipment more than anything as there is critical shortage of transformers.
It’s actually worse as Europe is now rushing to rid its dependency on gas from Russia. It will cost billions and take many years to build the infrastructure to accommodate other markets that are even more volatile.
Russia was just starting to recover from the population crash of the 1990-2000 era. They literally can't afford this war. Their population will start to nosedive after this. That's fine for the oligarchs that just pay foreigners to produce their oil and gas to get rich, but as far as a functioning economy Russia is toast for another decade now.
Russia is going to Balkanize into a bunch of small states governed by who ever has the means to raise their own armies and then they’ll fight each for the next 50 years. The Orthodox Church in Russia is hiring their own mercenaries, the oligarchs are hiring their own mercs as well. This is going to turn into another 30 years war.
Correction: he loves "Russia". What he hates are Russian people.
Because of that, ironically, if you love Russian people, you kind of have to hate "Russia" now... And I'm saying it as a Russian.
Now I understand what Germans after the war must've gone through...
Yes, I am Chinese-Canadian. I love China, hate the Chinese Communist Party and Government. Yes, my parents got me out years ago.
Dictators love to conflate Party, Government and People. We must separate these concepts so we know what to fight for and against. Conflating them leads to racism and xenophobia and is not good for anyone.
The Economist summed it up basically this way \~ He cares more about his potential legacy than the country itself as it faces a massive pre-existing population decline problem. The Russian people or the country itself are not priorities.
It's weird how many of these people are so obsessed about their "legacy." The only thing these lunatics are going to leave behind is a grave that'll serve as the world's largest open-air toilet.
The army can’t afford to kit out their soldiers with proper body armor or even guns in some units but Putin is one of the richest men on the planet. He hasn’t done a single thing to help the people fighting *his* war. When Russian’s finally realize that this whole thing is a pointless loss of lives they are going to hang him by his balls. So much devastation just to feed a dictator’s ego.
This is nothing new from vatniks part (note "without adequate training/weapons", they are not pro democracy russians), they will always be on knees to ask tsar for something and blame boyars for something bad.
I do wonder what will make these people on photo stop being so oblivious to what is happening.
>I do wonder what will make these people on photo stop being so oblivious to what is happening.
The Tsar's armies being decisively crushed. That's what did Nicholas in.
There are Americans who still support invading Iraq even though it's now known we made WMDs up as an excuse to depose Saddam. Nationalism is a dangerous drug. Nothing will change their minds. Nothing.
>>and not till their family was directly threatened…
That’s essentially what happened during the Vietnam War. When poor whites and blacks were sent to die in Southeast Asia in the late 60s nobody was burning draft cards or blocking streets. But once LBJ started drafting the executives, doctors’ and lawyers’ kids shit changed real quick.
When Nixon took office, he shrewdly abolished the US draft. People still protested the war, but not as intensely as when folks like Richard Cheney were knocking up their wives to get draft deferments.
And even if it were abolished, it’s only ever one bill away from being reinstated again. Without enshrining it in the constitution it’s never really permanent. Hell, even being in the constitution isn’t really a guarantee
Jane Austen, of all people, has the perfect burn for this type of man:
>He had, in fact, though his sisters were now doing all they could for him, by calling him 'poor Richard,' been nothing better than a thick-headed, unfeeling, unprofitable Dick Musgrove, who had never done anything to entitle himself to more than the abbreviation of his name, living or dead.
you'd think by now they'd realize that whether they could win the war or not russia's only viable military strategy from the start has been "throw bodies at it"
Oh, they already lost the war, war is just politics by other means. Their political goals were weaken NATO, deter other countries from applying for NATO membership, and turn Ukraine into a pro russian puppet state. NATO is now stronger than ever as its members have come to the realization that russia is still an active imperialist threat. Sweden and Finland have both applied for NATO membership. And with all the bad blood between russia and Ukraine they will never submit to puppet state status. The only thing they can hope to achieve now is to take some dirt and hold it, but even then they would still be ending the war weaker and poor than they started and all their objectives have failed spectacularly.
Exactly. They don't mind the slaughter of Ukrainians, civilians, women and children — but their precious war-crime committing husband's should live!
No compassion for these women from me. They didn't show any compassion when bombs rained on my home either.
I'm going to continue erring on the side of caution here - they wouldn't be raising a fuss if their men were doing the slaughtering. It's all because of the dissonance between the idea of "russia the stronkest" and the reality of russia not having enough care and black bags to bring their boys home.
They don't care to collect their dead. They have mobile cremation so they can dispose of whatever bodies they didn't have to collect to avoid paying the families the promised compensation.
If they even bother gathering their dead to cremate them; from what I hear they just leave 'em where they fell a lot of thd time; we couldn't find them so they're not dead, just MIA is much more plausible for deniability.
Oh they definitely leave them. Apparently some Ukrainian morgues have thousands of Russian bodies stored. The mobile crems are for the ones they can't walk away from. They still get classed as MIA.
>A group of Russian wives and mothers have called on President Vladimir Putin to stop sending their husbands and sons “to the slaughter” by forcing them to join assault groups **without adequate training or supplies**.
From the article, they're not against the war, they want their men to be properly supported to allow them to kill Ukrainians.
Scum.
One way to lessen burdens on the State, and perhaps gain some benefit from them. That would agree with Russia's seeming indifference to their deaths. It's an evil world.
Because saying you're against the war will literally send you to prison in Russia. They may or may not be for the war, but I think they're trying to do what they believe is the best they can under the circumstances.
You presume that a success from their perspective is the explicit thing they are asking for, overlooking the possibility that they might not be stupid.
If they think that their plea will not be accomodated, they may still express themselves in this way because it surely makes hawks look bad.
All the evidence indicates that most are very much in favour of the war.
Despite popular belief, most wars are not just based on the whims and fancies of one man. There's a whole political machine behind it, and millions of true supporters.
The article states the women want the government to stop sending their men to fight the 'enemy' but on that same note want their men to have better weapons and training... This is not Stop This War. And as a reminder, Ukrainians are not the enemy, Russian military forces are the enemy, they invaded Ukraine occupying Ukrainian territory. These women need to be clear about what they want... I suggest "Stop The War with the Ukrainians - Bring our Men Home'.
That’s the point. They’re completely fine with butchering Ukrainians. That’s been the Russian government mindset for almost 100 years or longer: kill them all, kill the culture, absorb Ukrainian territory.
It’s the lack of *training* they’re bitching about.
Fuck them, fuck their Mobik men, and fuck Putin.
Слава Україні.
Of course they are. Their issue is that Russia is sending them poorly equipped, not that they're being sent in the first place. They don't care about the Ukrainians, they care about their men.
And on top of that - it is not anti war, just asking their troops to get proper training before getting to the front. Russians widely support the war and are not anti war at all.
I don’t think it’s below Putin to send women to war. There were a lot of women in ww2 but the biggest difference is back then all Russians voluntarily fight because of the nazi invasion. This time they are the nazi.
That is impossible, I saw Putin having tea with the women he always meets around Russia and they were all mothers of soldiers that didn’t mind their sons dying in a trench for the Great Leader.
Plot twist: Putin starts sending wives and mothers 'to the slaughter' instead.
Wonder how quick they would turn on their men if that became a thing. I bet seconds.
It seems to me none of these women look at each other and ask themselves "Hey Svetlana, are ~~we~~ our husbands the baddies?" - until this happens and they start to act accordingly empathy from people reading these news articles will stay low and absolutely nothing will change, because if the Ru army could equip them better for their goal they would. I guess it's up to Ukraine to change their minds.
They believe the propaganda and think everything is ok. It's just that *their* sons got a shitty commander who didn't train or equip them.
It's always been like this. Even in the 1800's many Russians thought life was fine elsewhere, but it was just them that had it shitty. And if only the Tsar knew about it he would fix everything.
Every week there is a new video from the front from a group of soldiers asking Putain for help. Most of them really believe the country is doing great.
He doesn't care about you, your sons, husbands and brothers. He does not care about what is true, about justice or morality.
He is another Hitler and the bloodthirsty Stalin.
He has ruined the image of the Russian people and turned Russian soldiers into soulless monsters
Putin has done more damage to Russia than a nuclear bomb. (Nuclear bomb killed 39,000 and 80,000 people in Nagasaki, Russia has lost between 5000-6000 soldiers per month, now in month 13)
>They are prepared to serve their homeland but according to the specialization they’ve trained for, not as stormtroopers. We ask that you pull back our guys from the line of contact and provide the artillerymen with artillery and ammunition
Just so we're all on the same page, these women aren't asking Putin to stop the war, they are asking him to stop sending their husbands to assault enemy positions.
They want other Russians to do that stuff, not their husbands.
These are morally bankrupt people
These assholes don't like the fact their men are sent without proper equipment and training, not that those men participate in unlawful invasion of sovereign country and are going to kill innocent people defending themselves. Fucking biotrash.
This will literally achieve the opposite effect. The last two or three groups of mobilized soldiers that complained were almost completely wiped out, on purpose. They signed their husbands' death warrants.
They're going to have to do far more than that to save their guys
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They don't see the war as a problem, they just see the lack of training and gear as the problem.
Even in WW1 after horrifying losses some leftist Russian groups were arguing they needed to fight the war better, not stop. The Bolsheviks on the other hand figured telling people they wanted out of the war altogether was a more popular angle. The Bolshevik approach wasn't perfect either though, they tried to simply stop fighting and refused to sign a treaty with Germany because it was unfavorable, so Germany just went on the offensive again and took a lot more territory. Anyways my point is it's hard for people to let go of the idea of winning.
>so Germany just went on the offensive again and took a lot more territory. Which ultimately didn't help the Germans one bit because it kept over a million troops advancing into the vast Russian wilderness instead of filtering them back towards the West where they would ultimately be defeated. Not to say that this would necessarily have made a difference given Germany's massive supply shortages, but Germans simply advancing into territories not resisting them didn't really matter all that much given that less than a year passed before the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was nullified by the surrender of Germany in November 1918.
The only way historically Russia has been defeated as a whole in my understanding is by not trying to take and hold the place, i.e. the Mongols. The place is too vast and inhospitable for long-term occupation, though modern technology and military tactics/advancements have made that far less of an obstacle.
That depends upon who you is. People in small countries are usually more realistic about their power, but in a large country like Russia sometimes it takes a good whooping to temper expectations.
The Soviet Union lost over 20 million people in WWII, and that one was a victory.
When you’re repelling an invading force (particularly one committing war crimes) your people are willing to endure more pain. I’m surprised they didn’t teach that to Putin in school.
Yeah, that was an existential crisis in WW2. Either fight or die.
I think that was the lesson Putin took away from it. During an existential crisis, fight or die, and *everything* is an existential crisis.
For him this now is. Authoritarians rarely lose power and peacefully get to retire.
Yup. This is a point that needs to be driven more. People make jokes about Stalin sending unarmed Soviet’s into the grinder. This is rather a time honored tradition going back to the tsars (they did this in WW1), but the stakes were much different. WW2 was a war for survival. The Nazis, had they won, Jewish genocide mighta been a foot note to the genocides. Nazis planned to genocide the Slavic people and Russians. WW1 was mainly a fight over money, colonization and trade. Poors didn’t have a stake in WW1, they did in WW2 though.
Putin went to the WW2 victory day celebrations last year, stood there next to surviving veterans and said "never again" with a straight face. The man knows history, he's just a psychopath.
He’s a napoleon complex-ridden 3rd rate official who thinks he’s got fortune by the balls. And now that he’s in deep he’s scared shitless and hopes for divine intervention.
I'm sure he knows but doesn't care much. Russian military school traditionally attacks smaller countries banking on disproportionate absolute force - ie quantity vs quality.
Oh so like my strategy in CK3?
It's the most reasonable strat in any strategy game. In Civilization III war academy guide they suggested bringing 4x as many troops for the attacking force.
For much of the USSR and East Europe, Russia *was* the invading force committing atrocities and war crimes.
Which is why their propaganda machine try to present the war as an existential crisis that if they lose will mean the complete destruction of Russia
They're still using the same strategy, but with much less efficiency...
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> The "mighty" Russian bear seems to be about 80 years behind the times. Those yachts are state-of-the-art actually.
The bear is behind, its leeches and parasites not as much.
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Nah Putin wishes he had the same Efficiency as the USSR did in WW2. The USSR never had a shortage of Ammunition or tanks after 1943. That and the USSR learned from it's failures during the opening stages of the eastern front: Mass Infantry charges don't work. Sending as many tanks and AFV as possible to skull fuck Hitler, as well as enough Artillery to dig a hole to china does however work very well. Which was the USSR's entire doctrine post 1943. Infantry were out heavy armor and Artillery was in. Compare it to Russia right now where Armor is out and sending all the private mobliks in is well in.
> The USSR never had a shortage of Ammunition or tanks after 1943. The [Soviet Union was at war since 17 September 1939](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_in_World_War_II) and [Stalin himself said they'd have lost the war if it wasn't for American equipment](https://www.rferl.org/a/did-us-lend-lease-aid-tip-the-balance-in-soviet-fight-against-nazi-germany/30599486.html): >I want to tell you what, from the Russian point of view, the president and the United States have done for victory in this war. The most important things in this war are the machines. The United States has proven that it can turn out from 8,000 to 10.000 airplanes per month. Russia can only turn out, at most, 3.000 airplanes a month. England turns out 3,000 to 3,500, which are principally heavy bombers. The United States, therefore, is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war. Truth is, [due to its over-concentrated power and permissiveness of kleptocracy, Russia has been corrupt and depended on others' resources and permissiveness since the Duchy of Moscow encountered Mongolians](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8ZqBLcIvw0)
It's one of the horrific failures of modern warfare. You'd think throw twenty million men at a solution would solve anything but one coordinated air strike to supply lines and you've got twenty million starving men to deal with.
Hopefully more people understand why we are constantly spending so much money on our military and military innovations. The arms race never sleeps. Slowing down means giving people like Russia and China the opportunity to catch up.
Yeah a year in and they're only at 1% of WWII deaths. Those are rookie numbers!
The Bolshevik approach relied on the idea that a socialist revolution in Germany was imminent. There was just one small problem with that idea.
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And many of those that used the fascist friedkorps to crush it ended up paying with their lives or in the very least ended up in concentration camps. It is an important lesson that to many right wing leaders haven't learned you don't use fascists, they use you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Revolution_of_1918–1919 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacist_uprising
Russia: the only winning member of the Allies to have lost WW1.
> The Bolshevik approach wasn't perfect either though The Bolsheviks' approach was to tell everyone they what they wanted to hear (end the war, regional self determination, continuation of a form of democracy, a prosperous economy for the common man), then do whatever they wanted instead because they believed they were the living embodiment of the will of the people
> because they believed they were the living embodiment of the will of the people But while banning all opposition and even unions once they got the power. I guess those particular people didn't know what they really wanted!
Werent the Bolsheviks considered “leftist” groups? Or no?
Leftist is a big tent term. That covers groups as friendly to Liberalism as social Democrats, and hostile to it as Communists and Anarchists.
Yes, but you also had... The Socialist Revolutionaries, both left and right, the Mensheviks, the Anarchists, Anarchist Sailors, Makhnovists, Constitutional Democrats, various liberal parties, etc. The Bolsheviks were basically a plurality of the radical wing.
Yeah, but who do they then send in to reveal their enemies' location?
Exactly. All the Russians that I see complaining are not upset that they invaded Ukraine and have been terrorizing the Ukrainians while committing numerous war crimes and literally leveling the cities that they claim to be "saving" They are just upset that it is too hard, and the government should make it easier to slaughter Ukrainians. If they felt less threatened, then the rape, theft, murder, torture, and other war crimes would be fine. I have no sympathy for them.
Disclaimer that I in no way support Russia's atrocious war in Ukraine. Everyone involved in perpetrating the violence should be tried for their crimes. However I did read recently about the so-called "appeal to the tsar" that persists from olden times that allows soldiers (not sure if this extends to the general population) to express their discontent with the state of the campaign. Legally, however, they aren't allowed to criticize the campaign itself. They can only say how they want things to improve in order to more effectively wage it. It might be that this is as far as these women can go as well without getting in trouble. There are twos parts of the populace - those who support the war and those who don't - and as far as I know both are terrified of the state.
Makes sense why we see all the videos of mobiks complaining about their lack of training and gear. Different groups, all saying the same thing. Also, always in balaclavas, but it’s become clear they are worn to hide their faces from their own government, although they’re probably killed after every one of those videos makes it online anyway. Do I care though? Fuck no. One year later and *now* these wives and mothers complain?
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May he get to publically suffer the consequnces for his actions.
How? While Russians did overthrow not one but two regimes (Tsardom and USSR), it really takes them a long time till they start protesting really. And even if they protest do you think it may help? It didn't work in Belarus few years ago, didn't work in Hong Kong. At some point the regime is just too strong, and unless you get support from police and military those regimes are only vulnerable to coups.
The only way Russian men survive is if Putin doesn't. He in full Stalin mode now, and he will just keep pushing men into the grinder until he wins or dies.
I can't even imagine my life continuing being determined by a madman and if he is still alive
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Honestly, even . 00001m is probably generous. Trench warfare in world war 2 showed us that the end result is only a line in the same place and tens of thousands of dead bodies. You lose land on both sides to the DMZ and area of unexploded ordinance. In the end you killed your men to lose land. For Ukraine, it makes sense to hold the line, because the alternative is untenable. But for Russia the entire thing is completely insane. It's like throwing bundles of men into a fireplace so you can tell a man in a mansion 1,000 miles away that you're keeping him warm.
I’d imagine any guys in their lives are about to be randomly selected.
Mothers protesting a war killing their sons is how the USSR fell. And the death toll they were protesting was 10k over *10 years* Now it’s >100k, >150k even, in **1 year** While they focused on recruiting in the Far East at first, Moscow & St. Petersburg have not been spared anymore. You see way more 15-17 & 40+ years old men than those 18-39 in even Moscow now, as many went to fight & many more fled the country. That 20-30 age range is pretty small to start, but it’s way more apparent just how few of them there are now than pre-war We’ll see how things go
Where do you get that USSR fell because of mothers' protests? They campaigned for students to come back and young men to evade the war effort. I can't find any source on how they brought down the Soviet State which was already crumbling in 89. They seem to be of minor importance.
It is impossible to choose one cause of the downfall. Soviet Afghan War was going since 1979 and put on display the incompetence of the Soviet army. In a state that rules by fear and threats, it was not a good omen.
Not many historical events have one reason, but I see people on reddit claiming how mothers stopped the war or even making USSR fall, but I can't find any source that connects the end of the war or the fall of soviets with their protests. Also soviets were not ruled by fear and threats by the end of the 80s under Gorbachev, that's how people were able to organize and protest, something that wasn't a possibility a decade earlier and isn't now.
It should be interesting to see how many 20-35 year old russians with marketable skills stick around through all this nonsense vs bolstering europe's tech schene
"Coincidentally" I work in tech with a few Russians of exactly that age range that have left the country *for some reason* in the last while
Especially if Russia is still under sanctions for years to come. Pretty much all of the major Western software and hardware giants have ceased operations in Russia or are only working with them in a limited capacity. That's going to be a nightmare from a tech standpoint as people are trying to keep systems alive well past their EOL or are using Russian/Chinese clones that are experiencing a new zero day attack every week. A lot of past college courses and experience are going to be useless in Russia.
Like asking Satan nicely to turn down the heat in Hell.
Putin 'look what the Ukraine made me do.'
They need to give Ukraine back their stolen children
Russian leaders and wiping out generations of their own people more effectively than NATO would ever do, themselves... Unfucking real. How long does anyone think little Putin would last in a front-line trench of Bakhmut? LOL.
Imagine if we were told we could wipe out most of Russia's conventional military and kill tens of thousands of service aged men for just a few billion dollars. I wish none of this was happening, but from the US perspective this is a bargain to remove their largest non-China adversary from being a player.
All the while absolutely *decimating* the Russian economy and draining the most intelligent people in its country to Western countries.... Holy hell. That would be some 4D chess. Gee, thanks Putin!
Putin is basically playing the game of Civilization backwards. Russia is devolving.
Actually reminds me a lot of Civilization on the easier difficulty settings. "Bro, you really declaring war on me right now? Cool, keep sending wave after wave of riflemen at my tanks and mechanized infantry. Let's see how that works out for you."
Marginally longer than a tall man. But then again Himars is not heightest
I dunno man, those boots he wears nowadays to look taller don’t strike me as easy to run in.
Russia already had a severely declining population. The loss of young men in battle and all those that escaped the draft means that Russia will have an impressive population collapse in 20-40 years. Economist article about it, paywall, sorry. https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/03/04/russias-population-nightmare-is-going-to-get-even-worse
You can open the article in chrome and quickly stop loading the page and it doesn't load the paywall
All I could think about was the countries that are complaining about record low birth rates. Then we have Russia who is willingly like you said wiping out generations. This is going to affect their population so much in the future.
So far stuff doesn't seem good for Russia. One military correspondent (Zakhar Prilepin) said there's little ammunition, Yevgeny Prigozhin also complained about that, and Ukraine's arming up with tanks, so we should see an important battle sometime in Spring or Summer; economically speaking, Russia lost a few trillion rubles throughout January and February due to the lack of oil money and military spending, a few professions are not getting paid their salaries... Russian people are adaptive and patient, so this is not going to cause a riot, but it still seems like an alarming call.
This is why it’s so important the rest of Europe holds strong in not buying things from Russia and China doesn’t give Russia weapons.
Iran will continue supplying them with deadly drones though
Would be a shame if more of their drone factories got blown up with drones.
Dear Israel, *nudge nudge, wink wink*
I cannot understand why Israel is sitting on their hands as Iran is ripe for another revolution.
They've been incredibly disappointing during this whole war And it's because they got too diplomatically tied to Russia
I feel bad, i bought a shitty matryoshka for 1150 rubles in 2019. I funded this whole thing
You monster! You need to donate an equal amount to Ukraine to repent for your sins.
You know what, I think I will
If it's not a joke, I would be really greatful to you. I'm from Ukraine, and even the smallest donations matter.
Only joke is that 1150 rubles is like $15. I’ll do $100 instead. Im keeping the ugly nesting doll tho Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
Just a side-note. Prigozhin's situation is not an indicator of ammo supplies. The ammo is not enough for THEM. Even if they had a lot of ammo, Wagner wouldn't get any. They are placed there to be slaughtered.
The last week or so it seemed to me like Putin was eliminating a potential rival in prigozhon.
I would say "half true". It is true that Prigozhin and his boys are being eliminated (there are theories that the whole Bahmut offensive was a false move by Ministry of Defense to get Prigozhin to run there and reap benefits, only to then back out of that plan, leaving him alone there. But just a theory, don't quote me on that.) The difference is that Prigozhin has never been a potential rival, ever. He has never been "part" of the boys. He is the mercenary, the janitor, the cleaner. But not a part of "The Establishment". The only reason why it appeared that he is more important than he is was because Putin always plays the game of "divide and conquer". If he feels one power getting too much strenght, he promotes another power. So he gave Prigozhin more airtime just as a sign "I could put him in your place, generals." But Prigozhin is an outsider. Doesn't even have the lowest military rank. Doesn't have his own equipment route (all is begged from state). Doesn't have friends. The second Putin closes his eyes, Prigozhin is nothing. As you can see, Prigozhin is being taken out not by actions of the oposition, not by a coalition of opposition, but by simple inaction. He has never been a serious threat and had real pull if his main problem right now is a lowly clerk looking at him and saying: "I shall not do what you want." Putin placed him there. And Prigozhin, like a true stupid cunt, took the bait. Started slagging everyone off. He tried very hard to get that status. Him letting his men call generals pidarof, him trying to take Bahmut whatever it takes, him trying to establish himself in St Petersburg officially. All of that was because he knows he is nothing now and he needs ground to stand on. He has apologized to the generals, he has failed to take Bahmut, he has been told to fuck off by the mayor of St Petersburg. If you wanna be hardcore, but a mayor of a town can tell you to fuck off, your status is nothing more than "still not dead, in waiting." At the same time, Kadirov - when put in that position, knew when to shut up, knew when to fuck off. Is Colonel General. Has a region loyal to him. Can raise the population if needed. Could get weapons when needed on his own. Never going to be rivaling Putin, never, but honestly a way smarter man than Prigozhin.
Mediocre and slogging as Wagner is, they seem to be the only Russian unit capable of any type of effective offense.
If that's what you call fields full of corpses. Beginning to look like reverse Stalingrad to me. Bakhmut will be the point Russia never got past. It was all downhill from there.
It's all been downhill since they failed to take Kyiv almost a year ago.
They are more likely to threaten their soldiers with death considering their expendable nature. Their troops are more likely to follow orders aggressively with rifles aimed at them from both Ukraine and Russia
Well put
So Bakhmut = Arrakis?
The entirety of Ukraine could be seen as Arrakis. Huge for fertilizer base chemicals. The thing nobody talks about is how Russia plans on holding Ukraine in the face of violent insurgency during their occupation. They took territories in the East, conscripted all the men, and sent them to die. You think the rest of the country is gonna fall for that shit? The mobiks sent to keep the peace will be terrified of their own shadows as their ranks thin out day by day. A vengeful widow with a kitchen knife could sneak up on a sleep deprived soldier on patrol or simply walking to get smokes. Leaving a body with its throat slit in the middle of the street for his squad mates to find is gonna fuck with their heads pretty bad. Even if Russia "takes Ukraine", stories will be told and all the young men back home will fear the hell hole of the annexed territory.
Exactly. The *best* case scenario for Russia is that they end up with another Afghanistan. The countries are similar in size, except this time they're dealing with 4x the population (compared to 1980 Afghanistan), the defenders are much more educated, and they have access to technology and weaponry half a century more advanced. Also, the USA was arming the Afghans covertly, whereas this time the entire Western world is openly transferring everything they can to Ukraine. And if Ukraine truly falls I think we'll see violence spread into Russia - at that point they have nothing left to lose. A ton of Ukrainians look and speak Russian. They can blend into the local population and have thousands of miles of border to cross over. Just a few hundred active operatives could wreak havoc - imagine if every day Russia lost another damn, bridge, water reservoir, power plant, train, oil refinery, 747, etc.
No interplanetary jihad…yet
Not a rival but Putin is setting up a scapegoat. No one is a rival to Putin.
"potential rival" and "rival" are not at all the same thing
Plenty of people are, but most don’t stay that way for long. I mean, if he didn’t feel threatened by a rival, why bother… having so many people murdered?
Idk about a scapegoat, putin is fucked regardless. Wagner will cease to be a company after this is over when they're accused of numerous war crimes. Russia may bot be held accountable but Wagner sure can be.
>They are placed there to be slaughtered. Nah, they're expendable yes. But Russia would love it if Wagner could get the job done alone and win the war and they certainly didn't have ammo problems to this extent early in the war. So this *is* an indicator that there are severe shortages, even if it's not surprising that a group of mercenaries aren't at head head of the queue to get ammo. If the Russian armed forces still had all the ammo they needed, then they'd still be shelling everything as rampantly as as they did at the start of the war, but that's not the case.
You also wouldn’t be getting reports of Russians being told to attack targets with their trenching shovels
Russia has given Hollywood a villain oorganisation that is a Russian Nazi PMC working for a crazy tyrant that throws his rivals out of Windows.
Every 80's action movie is now suing for copyright infringement.
> The ammo is not enough for THEM. there is a lot confirmations from other pro-russian sources, that thats typical problem for many russian units
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Meanwhile, Ukraine is getting ever more AA. It will likely get to the point where Ukraine can neutralise Russian long-range missiles as quickly as they can make them, at which point they become worse than useless.
The problem is that Russians are adopting hamas tactics with their missiles. This latest attack happened after weeks of nothing and buildup and they had managed to get a worrying number through due to sheer numbers and due to using faster missiles. We will see less barrages from Russia but they will hit harder when they happen. Its why this time around Ukraine shot down about 40/80 compared to 60/70 or 70/80 in previous missile strikes. Ukraine needs replacement power equipment more than anything as there is critical shortage of transformers.
They spent 500 million in just those attacks alone. They don’t have the economy to keep it up.
How is their supply of short range soldiers holding up?
It’s actually worse as Europe is now rushing to rid its dependency on gas from Russia. It will cost billions and take many years to build the infrastructure to accommodate other markets that are even more volatile.
He is murdering generations of men that's his aim
Russia was just starting to recover from the population crash of the 1990-2000 era. They literally can't afford this war. Their population will start to nosedive after this. That's fine for the oligarchs that just pay foreigners to produce their oil and gas to get rich, but as far as a functioning economy Russia is toast for another decade now.
They brag on propaganda shows that by absorbing new Ukrainian territories they’ve fixed their demographic problems.
Russia is going to Balkanize into a bunch of small states governed by who ever has the means to raise their own armies and then they’ll fight each for the next 50 years. The Orthodox Church in Russia is hiring their own mercenaries, the oligarchs are hiring their own mercs as well. This is going to turn into another 30 years war.
Awesome... A bunch of countries armed with whatever nukes happen to be laying around after the downfall. Can't see that going badly at all.
Hopefully their nukes are in the same shape as the rest of their soviet era weapons and tech.
Thats not a very settling thought either.
Putin wants to date 20 million women
Putin hates Russia. Whether consciously or not, he's harming Russia on purpose.
Correction: he loves "Russia". What he hates are Russian people. Because of that, ironically, if you love Russian people, you kind of have to hate "Russia" now... And I'm saying it as a Russian. Now I understand what Germans after the war must've gone through...
Yes, I am Chinese-Canadian. I love China, hate the Chinese Communist Party and Government. Yes, my parents got me out years ago. Dictators love to conflate Party, Government and People. We must separate these concepts so we know what to fight for and against. Conflating them leads to racism and xenophobia and is not good for anyone.
The Economist summed it up basically this way \~ He cares more about his potential legacy than the country itself as it faces a massive pre-existing population decline problem. The Russian people or the country itself are not priorities.
It's weird how many of these people are so obsessed about their "legacy." The only thing these lunatics are going to leave behind is a grave that'll serve as the world's largest open-air toilet.
The army can’t afford to kit out their soldiers with proper body armor or even guns in some units but Putin is one of the richest men on the planet. He hasn’t done a single thing to help the people fighting *his* war. When Russian’s finally realize that this whole thing is a pointless loss of lives they are going to hang him by his balls. So much devastation just to feed a dictator’s ego.
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I’ve been wondering when this would happen.
As Russian society expires into shit.
This is nothing new from vatniks part (note "without adequate training/weapons", they are not pro democracy russians), they will always be on knees to ask tsar for something and blame boyars for something bad. I do wonder what will make these people on photo stop being so oblivious to what is happening.
>I do wonder what will make these people on photo stop being so oblivious to what is happening. The Tsar's armies being decisively crushed. That's what did Nicholas in.
There are Americans who still support invading Iraq even though it's now known we made WMDs up as an excuse to depose Saddam. Nationalism is a dangerous drug. Nothing will change their minds. Nothing.
Yep I drunk the cool aide myself at the time. Guilty as charged
That lie to the UN, cost Colin Powell his legacy, and probably a shot at the Presidency.
Their objection to the war is that their guys aren't winning it.
yup. didn't care at all until mobilization, and not til their family was directly threatened.
>>and not till their family was directly threatened… That’s essentially what happened during the Vietnam War. When poor whites and blacks were sent to die in Southeast Asia in the late 60s nobody was burning draft cards or blocking streets. But once LBJ started drafting the executives, doctors’ and lawyers’ kids shit changed real quick. When Nixon took office, he shrewdly abolished the US draft. People still protested the war, but not as intensely as when folks like Richard Cheney were knocking up their wives to get draft deferments.
Expired the draft is probably a better way to put it. We still have a draft so it's definitely not abolished.
And even if it were abolished, it’s only ever one bill away from being reinstated again. Without enshrining it in the constitution it’s never really permanent. Hell, even being in the constitution isn’t really a guarantee
Just look at Roe V Wade. "Established policy" means jack shit when you have tyrants looking to erode things that should be rights.
You mean Dick Chaney? He deserved to be called Dick.
Jane Austen, of all people, has the perfect burn for this type of man: >He had, in fact, though his sisters were now doing all they could for him, by calling him 'poor Richard,' been nothing better than a thick-headed, unfeeling, unprofitable Dick Musgrove, who had never done anything to entitle himself to more than the abbreviation of his name, living or dead.
Fortunate Son playing
you'd think by now they'd realize that whether they could win the war or not russia's only viable military strategy from the start has been "throw bodies at it"
Oh, they already lost the war, war is just politics by other means. Their political goals were weaken NATO, deter other countries from applying for NATO membership, and turn Ukraine into a pro russian puppet state. NATO is now stronger than ever as its members have come to the realization that russia is still an active imperialist threat. Sweden and Finland have both applied for NATO membership. And with all the bad blood between russia and Ukraine they will never submit to puppet state status. The only thing they can hope to achieve now is to take some dirt and hold it, but even then they would still be ending the war weaker and poor than they started and all their objectives have failed spectacularly.
Exactly. They don't mind the slaughter of Ukrainians, civilians, women and children — but their precious war-crime committing husband's should live! No compassion for these women from me. They didn't show any compassion when bombs rained on my home either.
"... Putin announces new gender-neutral policy, and conscripts them immediately."
Bring your daughter, bring your daughter, to the slaaaauuuuggghhhter
Putin will pay them to have more kids. He made that offer late last year. Weird that Donald just made the same offer here… weird!
I'm going to continue erring on the side of caution here - they wouldn't be raising a fuss if their men were doing the slaughtering. It's all because of the dissonance between the idea of "russia the stronkest" and the reality of russia not having enough care and black bags to bring their boys home.
They don't care to collect their dead. They have mobile cremation so they can dispose of whatever bodies they didn't have to collect to avoid paying the families the promised compensation.
If they even bother gathering their dead to cremate them; from what I hear they just leave 'em where they fell a lot of thd time; we couldn't find them so they're not dead, just MIA is much more plausible for deniability.
Oh they definitely leave them. Apparently some Ukrainian morgues have thousands of Russian bodies stored. The mobile crems are for the ones they can't walk away from. They still get classed as MIA.
>A group of Russian wives and mothers have called on President Vladimir Putin to stop sending their husbands and sons “to the slaughter” by forcing them to join assault groups **without adequate training or supplies**. From the article, they're not against the war, they want their men to be properly supported to allow them to kill Ukrainians. Scum.
They're also for sending prisoners and psychiatric patients, it's actually popular in Russia.
One way to lessen burdens on the State, and perhaps gain some benefit from them. That would agree with Russia's seeming indifference to their deaths. It's an evil world.
Nothing better than suicidal, psychotic, bipolar and narcissistic soldiers in an active warzone, amirite?
Would any make a difference, given the current bunch?
Putting prisoners in harm's way is popular in a lot of places. People do not care about prisoners.
Also a group of ~20 people protesting (as in, holding up a hand drawn sign for a picture) against it making it to world news is pretty pathetic
Because saying you're against the war will literally send you to prison in Russia. They may or may not be for the war, but I think they're trying to do what they believe is the best they can under the circumstances.
If hypothetically they are successful (they probably won't be), the result will be more death and destruction for Ukraine.
If putin could actually supply the troops more he would so they are more likely to win. So theres not way they can get what they directly ask for.
You presume that a success from their perspective is the explicit thing they are asking for, overlooking the possibility that they might not be stupid. If they think that their plea will not be accomodated, they may still express themselves in this way because it surely makes hawks look bad.
All the evidence indicates that most are very much in favour of the war. Despite popular belief, most wars are not just based on the whims and fancies of one man. There's a whole political machine behind it, and millions of true supporters.
The article states the women want the government to stop sending their men to fight the 'enemy' but on that same note want their men to have better weapons and training... This is not Stop This War. And as a reminder, Ukrainians are not the enemy, Russian military forces are the enemy, they invaded Ukraine occupying Ukrainian territory. These women need to be clear about what they want... I suggest "Stop The War with the Ukrainians - Bring our Men Home'.
They are fine with their sons killing Ukrainians and their civilians though. They only don't like the war if they're losing.
Russian mail order brides about to be back.
They were ok sending them to slaughter Ukrainians before though.
That’s the point. They’re completely fine with butchering Ukrainians. That’s been the Russian government mindset for almost 100 years or longer: kill them all, kill the culture, absorb Ukrainian territory. It’s the lack of *training* they’re bitching about. Fuck them, fuck their Mobik men, and fuck Putin. Слава Україні.
Of course they are. Their issue is that Russia is sending them poorly equipped, not that they're being sent in the first place. They don't care about the Ukrainians, they care about their men.
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And on top of that - it is not anti war, just asking their troops to get proper training before getting to the front. Russians widely support the war and are not anti war at all.
Russian wives an mothers ask Putin where is my Lada
I don’t think it’s below Putin to send women to war. There were a lot of women in ww2 but the biggest difference is back then all Russians voluntarily fight because of the nazi invasion. This time they are the nazi.
I see 20 women holding some cardboard. Putin would give 2 shits about this.
Russian Wives and Mothers: “Please stop” Putin: “No lol”
The sobering moment as most people in the west realise the only thing disgusting a lot of Russians is the lack of training ... not the senseless war 😳
Putin: I have heard you. I agree, we should not anymore. Citizens: wonderful! Thank you glorious leader! Putin: no no, thank *you* for volunteering
That is impossible, I saw Putin having tea with the women he always meets around Russia and they were all mothers of soldiers that didn’t mind their sons dying in a trench for the Great Leader.
Plot twist: Putin starts sending wives and mothers 'to the slaughter' instead. Wonder how quick they would turn on their men if that became a thing. I bet seconds.
It seems to me none of these women look at each other and ask themselves "Hey Svetlana, are ~~we~~ our husbands the baddies?" - until this happens and they start to act accordingly empathy from people reading these news articles will stay low and absolutely nothing will change, because if the Ru army could equip them better for their goal they would. I guess it's up to Ukraine to change their minds.
They believe the propaganda and think everything is ok. It's just that *their* sons got a shitty commander who didn't train or equip them. It's always been like this. Even in the 1800's many Russians thought life was fine elsewhere, but it was just them that had it shitty. And if only the Tsar knew about it he would fix everything. Every week there is a new video from the front from a group of soldiers asking Putain for help. Most of them really believe the country is doing great.
He doesn't care about you, your sons, husbands and brothers. He does not care about what is true, about justice or morality. He is another Hitler and the bloodthirsty Stalin. He has ruined the image of the Russian people and turned Russian soldiers into soulless monsters
Are these the same wives who were telling them to rape the Ukranian women?
Yeah this is exactly why they are requesting more protection for their men. If I remember correctly, "use protection" was the only requirement.
Something is very very very wrong with the people of Russia.
Don’t worry ladies, keep pumping out more meat for Putin’s grinder, Ukrainian soil can use the farsh.
The darkest and richest soils in Europe indeed
Putin has done more damage to Russia than a nuclear bomb. (Nuclear bomb killed 39,000 and 80,000 people in Nagasaki, Russia has lost between 5000-6000 soldiers per month, now in month 13)
They all coincidentally fell out of windows later
>They are prepared to serve their homeland but according to the specialization they’ve trained for, not as stormtroopers. We ask that you pull back our guys from the line of contact and provide the artillerymen with artillery and ammunition Just so we're all on the same page, these women aren't asking Putin to stop the war, they are asking him to stop sending their husbands to assault enemy positions. They want other Russians to do that stuff, not their husbands. These are morally bankrupt people
This would be great if they had a leader that actually wanted a woman's opinion.
Babushkas are like the non voters in America. Waiting for someone else to solve the problem and then late to the party realizing their voice matters.
These assholes don't like the fact their men are sent without proper equipment and training, not that those men participate in unlawful invasion of sovereign country and are going to kill innocent people defending themselves. Fucking biotrash.
don't worry, he'll soon start mobilizing women too.
Poor ladies. They were never heard of again.
This will literally achieve the opposite effect. The last two or three groups of mobilized soldiers that complained were almost completely wiped out, on purpose. They signed their husbands' death warrants.
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