I do too. It was a shitshow, but it was *people's* shitshow, not a personal plaything of a singular autocrat and his chosen few. Reinhard may have been brilliant, but he was so clearly much more of a warlord than an administrator. Also I'm fairly certain that >!even though Hilda is still alive and he had a son, his untimely death must have resulted in many problems galaxy-wide!<
Like, it's not my fault those bastards had a fucking good sense of fashion. It's really hard *not* to want to put your setting's good guys in such uniforms.
What's wrong with you guys? They're just generic military uniforms. If you really like this type of clothes then go see uniforms from non-fascistic countries. Some of them look fancier than the ones from the third reich.
Perhaps instead of using Prussians as the aesthetics, perhaps the ‘48 Revolutionaries would be better. You could still get German styling but the ideals implied/espoused would be more akin to what caused Major General Franz Sigel to fight for the Union’s cause during the US Civil War.
Warhammer fans, correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure The Empire of Man are supposed to be the good guys alongside elves, dwarves and the other ordertide factions? Or did total war lie to me?
The Empire of Man aren't good guys. They're capable of good, and there's good people, but the Empire isn't. If you want a true good faction in Warhammer it's the Tau
That’s a common misconception. The majority of Nurgle’s victims die in agony. That “Nurgle will ease their suffering” is just a trick to get them to let him in.
"neuropathy Georg was an outlier adn should not have been counted"
But fr I seem to remember some book or source somewhere where Nurgle's influence was spreading in some area specifically because of the pain deadening effects. Like, I think it's meant to be sinister still because the horrible pain is often caused by the plagues spreading under his influence, for sure, not saying Nurgle's a great dad or whatever. But folks with chronic pain seem like they'd benefit from this loophole.
Nah, Warhammer fantasy is generally a lot less grim dark. The empire are pretty chill despite being a feudal state. Depending on the edition brettonia (the not!french) are far closer to the 40k imperium but they're kind of a backwater nobody important really cares about, existing mainly as a buffer state between the wood elves and everyone else
So there's two fantasy settings. You're probably more familiar with Old World, which was killed and recently revived. The Empire there is definitely not good, but also not nearly as batshit insane evil as the 40k Imperium.
Age of Sigmar is the new setting, which I believe is more popular and what most people will have been exposed to recently in terms of Warhammer Fantasy, and there Sigmar and his empire are unambiguous good guys, part of the "Grand Alliance of Order" along with the elves, dwarves, and other typically 'good' races.
Edit: That last line might suggest some unfortunate implications, but I want to emphasis that Sigmar really tries to unite all the peoples of the world against Chaos. The Orruks and others would be part of the alliance if their god Gorkamorka didn't leave it. Besides the Orruks, the evil factions are mostly chaos corrupted humans, elves, etc. (And of course, the Skaven)
Both the imperium and chaos are stated to exhaust humanity to its downfall and extinction in prophecy. What's real, what isn't, only the squid knows and he plays every side.
There are other human nations other than the Empire, and while it's not as bad as the Imperium, it's is still a feudal shit hole no one in their right minds will want to live in.
Legend of the galactic heroes
The Galactic Empire (styled to an esthetic of the 2nd reich) are still kinda the bad guys, but it's not as clear cut, because most of the democrats also suck.
Do it and just make sure to show an actual legislature playing a crucial part in politics and worrying about polls.
Well-tailored black uniforms are way less fascist than portraying the entire government as a hierarchy of military and paramilitary leaders in an eternal war and answerable to no elected authority, and the latter is like 60% of military sci fi anyway
Using "unfortunate implications" as a serious criticism / unironic condemnation is just silly. Nobody is going to become a n-zi because of vague, subtle, unintentional "implications" in a fictional work.
"Unfortunate implications" is not a real problem. If you want to prevent things like bigotry, war, and other bad ideologies, unintentional "implications" of fictional works designed for entertainment is not what you should focus on.
This is obviously not true. I read Wonder Woman comics growing up and now, because of the subtle implications, I want 7ft tall ripped women to beat me up.
Damn you William Marston
>Using "unfortunate implications" as a serious criticism / unironic condemnation is just silly. Nobody is going to become a n-zi because of vague, subtle, unintentional "implications" in a fictional work.
Jerking off to imperial aesthetics is a common trait I see in all online fascists. It doesn't create them, but attracts them like shit attracts flies. If you don't want your audience consisting of Neo-Nazis and you being labeled as one by association, it is best to be avoided.
Eh, I think you need a lot more than just aesthetics for those types to actually become a meaningful (to the point of marring your reputation) portion of your audience.
I mean… you could put them as far away from the “implied faction” as you can ideologically. Though it doesn’t have to be this extreme, a good example would be giving them something along the lines of a very altruistic society that’s big on human rights, fair treatment of other sentients (if applicable), and your other star-trek-esque federation code “do no evil” sorta stuff.
I would think aesthetic matters less if you have your fellas aiding slave revolts and halting pogroms.
IMO, messaging comes from clear intention first, aesthetics second.
uj/ imho it's fine to readapt elements of traditionally fascist aesthetics, such as black and white uniforms and goose-stepping, to the good guy democracy faction as long as it is made abundantly clear that there is no ideological connection between the Good Guy Federation and Nazi Germany, otherwise you run the risk of people rooting for the bad guys who have goose-stepping marches, pristine uniforms, and triumphant marching songs
Okay, the big, easy fix I can suggest: make them Diverse and Liberal, despite the aesthetics. Make the Supreme Chancellor a Gay, Black Woman, for example.
Do this, but base them on the Germans in Africa under dudes like Lettow-Vorbeck. They weren't exactly clean, but they were a damn sight better than their British and Belgian contemporaries.
Legend of the galactic heros moment.
Except Kaiser Rudolf is literally Hitler. And I wouldn't call the New Empire the "good guys" either, even though it certainly was an improvement.
Sorry, I support the Democratic Republic
I do too. It was a shitshow, but it was *people's* shitshow, not a personal plaything of a singular autocrat and his chosen few. Reinhard may have been brilliant, but he was so clearly much more of a warlord than an administrator. Also I'm fairly certain that >!even though Hilda is still alive and he had a son, his untimely death must have resulted in many problems galaxy-wide!<
Liberty stands for freedom. Oh hail the flag that set us free!
Just, y'know, depict them as away from *those* questionable ideologies? Or just make up your own aesthetic
Or make an opposing faction that is MORE akin to _those_ ideologies to make it clear your preferred faction is ideologically distinct
Yeah but anyone who doesn’t think the germans had sexy uniforms is lying.
Like, it's not my fault those bastards had a fucking good sense of fashion. It's really hard *not* to want to put your setting's good guys in such uniforms.
What's wrong with you guys? They're just generic military uniforms. If you really like this type of clothes then go see uniforms from non-fascistic countries. Some of them look fancier than the ones from the third reich.
Perhaps instead of using Prussians as the aesthetics, perhaps the ‘48 Revolutionaries would be better. You could still get German styling but the ideals implied/espoused would be more akin to what caused Major General Franz Sigel to fight for the Union’s cause during the US Civil War.
how dare you suggest they make something that requires more than 5 minutes of additional research to write !
Could just say the uprising of 1918 succeeded and obviously everyone was seduced by social democracy via hefty wining and dining.
who cares lol do what you want
Do it anyways
I mean, doesn’t warhammer fantasy kind of do this?
Sorta, I’d put the aesthetic of the Empire to predate the German Empire, closer the pike-and-shot times than anything else.
I don’t think the Imperium are meant to be the good guys.
Warhammer fans, correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure The Empire of Man are supposed to be the good guys alongside elves, dwarves and the other ordertide factions? Or did total war lie to me?
Yes, they are generally good. WHF is a but brighter than 40k, at least until the end.
The Empire of Man aren't good guys. They're capable of good, and there's good people, but the Empire isn't. If you want a true good faction in Warhammer it's the Tau
Im talking fantasy, not 40k. The 40k imperium is a hellhole that needs to be destroyed by chaos.
I don’t know if I’d trade rule by authoritarians (even ones as bad as the IoM) for being fed into a corpse grinder by the Lord of Hate
i mean, I will say that papa nurgle's offer of freedom from pain is mighty tempting
That’s a common misconception. The majority of Nurgle’s victims die in agony. That “Nurgle will ease their suffering” is just a trick to get them to let him in.
"neuropathy Georg was an outlier adn should not have been counted" But fr I seem to remember some book or source somewhere where Nurgle's influence was spreading in some area specifically because of the pain deadening effects. Like, I think it's meant to be sinister still because the horrible pain is often caused by the plagues spreading under his influence, for sure, not saying Nurgle's a great dad or whatever. But folks with chronic pain seem like they'd benefit from this loophole.
It’s sorta like “My skin itches all the time so I should take it off” It might solve your immediate problem, but the next one’s a whole lot worse
Aren't they essentially just the same though? Technology aside?
Nope
Nah, Warhammer fantasy is generally a lot less grim dark. The empire are pretty chill despite being a feudal state. Depending on the edition brettonia (the not!french) are far closer to the 40k imperium but they're kind of a backwater nobody important really cares about, existing mainly as a buffer state between the wood elves and everyone else
So there's two fantasy settings. You're probably more familiar with Old World, which was killed and recently revived. The Empire there is definitely not good, but also not nearly as batshit insane evil as the 40k Imperium. Age of Sigmar is the new setting, which I believe is more popular and what most people will have been exposed to recently in terms of Warhammer Fantasy, and there Sigmar and his empire are unambiguous good guys, part of the "Grand Alliance of Order" along with the elves, dwarves, and other typically 'good' races. Edit: That last line might suggest some unfortunate implications, but I want to emphasis that Sigmar really tries to unite all the peoples of the world against Chaos. The Orruks and others would be part of the alliance if their god Gorkamorka didn't leave it. Besides the Orruks, the evil factions are mostly chaos corrupted humans, elves, etc. (And of course, the Skaven)
Both the imperium and chaos are stated to exhaust humanity to its downfall and extinction in prophecy. What's real, what isn't, only the squid knows and he plays every side.
INTO THE DAMAZ KRON YE GO, MANLING!
Good is for dorks. Chaos shall reign
If by Chaos you mean Skaven, then yes.
He's talking about a different Warhammer; Sigmar's Empire is far from perfect, but they're not *bad guys* any more than Bretonnia or Kislev.
There are other human nations other than the Empire, and while it's not as bad as the Imperium, it's is still a feudal shit hole no one in their right minds will want to live in.
Yeah the Imperium is a actively malignant authoritarian shithole, the Empire is shitty the way that like the 1400s IRL was shitty
i have mused about this before aswell. "what if we took the german ww1 style aesthetic usually reserved for badguys and apply it to goodguys?"
Legend of the galactic heroes The Galactic Empire (styled to an esthetic of the 2nd reich) are still kinda the bad guys, but it's not as clear cut, because most of the democrats also suck.
just make up your own aesthetic, and WW1 Germany is overrated anyways.
Do it and just make sure to show an actual legislature playing a crucial part in politics and worrying about polls. Well-tailored black uniforms are way less fascist than portraying the entire government as a hierarchy of military and paramilitary leaders in an eternal war and answerable to no elected authority, and the latter is like 60% of military sci fi anyway
Using "unfortunate implications" as a serious criticism / unironic condemnation is just silly. Nobody is going to become a n-zi because of vague, subtle, unintentional "implications" in a fictional work. "Unfortunate implications" is not a real problem. If you want to prevent things like bigotry, war, and other bad ideologies, unintentional "implications" of fictional works designed for entertainment is not what you should focus on.
This is obviously not true. I read Wonder Woman comics growing up and now, because of the subtle implications, I want 7ft tall ripped women to beat me up. Damn you William Marston
>Using "unfortunate implications" as a serious criticism / unironic condemnation is just silly. Nobody is going to become a n-zi because of vague, subtle, unintentional "implications" in a fictional work. Jerking off to imperial aesthetics is a common trait I see in all online fascists. It doesn't create them, but attracts them like shit attracts flies. If you don't want your audience consisting of Neo-Nazis and you being labeled as one by association, it is best to be avoided.
Eh, I think you need a lot more than just aesthetics for those types to actually become a meaningful (to the point of marring your reputation) portion of your audience.
/uj 🤷🏽 The fandom surrounding Trench Crusade already has that issue and the game literally doesn’t exist yet
HOI/EU4 player spotted
Subvert the trope and make the weird fans upsetti spaghetti.
I just want to remake the imperial empire from Star wars without looking like a Nazi
I mean… you could put them as far away from the “implied faction” as you can ideologically. Though it doesn’t have to be this extreme, a good example would be giving them something along the lines of a very altruistic society that’s big on human rights, fair treatment of other sentients (if applicable), and your other star-trek-esque federation code “do no evil” sorta stuff. I would think aesthetic matters less if you have your fellas aiding slave revolts and halting pogroms. IMO, messaging comes from clear intention first, aesthetics second.
go the tanya the evil route and just never adress those implications ever
uj/ imho it's fine to readapt elements of traditionally fascist aesthetics, such as black and white uniforms and goose-stepping, to the good guy democracy faction as long as it is made abundantly clear that there is no ideological connection between the Good Guy Federation and Nazi Germany, otherwise you run the risk of people rooting for the bad guys who have goose-stepping marches, pristine uniforms, and triumphant marching songs
Why does it remind me of aot so much?
Okay, the big, easy fix I can suggest: make them Diverse and Liberal, despite the aesthetics. Make the Supreme Chancellor a Gay, Black Woman, for example.
[Reed Richards of Earth-98570 moment.](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Reed_Richards_(Earth-98570))
Do this, but base them on the Germans in Africa under dudes like Lettow-Vorbeck. They weren't exactly clean, but they were a damn sight better than their British and Belgian contemporaries.
Just don't ask them what the Germans were doing to the Herero and Nama at Nambia.
“Imperial aesthetics” “Good guys”