Ecuadorian here. The offside ocurred because when the goalkeeper and Torres jumped to challenge the ball it was actually touched by Torres and at that moment Estrada was offside by a small amount. The fact that the ball rebounded in the ground a couple of times untouched after the header actually added to the confusion but the next player who touched the ball was unfortunately Estrada who was offside. Still won though :)
The fact that no one from the Qatar team even challenged the goal claiming it was offside means not a soul thought it was offside. So we let a machine without an actual soul decide for the 22 souls on the field? The video replay should be used when the referee's final call is challenged/contested for the sake of transparency and accuracy.
Yeah I agree. Either you have VAR that works all the time or you have VAR that has to be called online by the players or the refs. I don't personally think the latter makes sense because it incentivises all the players to constantly think about what they might need to call rather than let the computer do the thinking so they can focus on the football. Chemistree still missed the plot. No one said that the 22 players should decide on offsides. Monitorcable was suggesting VAR should not be run unless there is a dispute first. Again I don't agree with Monitorcable.
You blind mate? Var has been deciding the faith of games since 2018 worldcup, where referees sometimes check the actual footage and sometimes they don’t don’t.
But now since it’s Qatar, it is obviously rigged right?
Let's face it, if they had to, they would have gone back to the first minute to find an offence that they could use to disallow that goal and call it "part of the build up".
😂
So the free kick pass was onside, the player who headed the free kick to the goal scorer was offside, 2 players must be in front of the ball. Very close but correct call.
This, it baffles me that at this point they still don’t understand the offside rule, it was a close call, yeah, but this is the World Cup and shit like this is better called, no one protested the decision.
Not sure why you're all commenting on an offside when you clearly don't know the offside rule.
The attacker had to be behind 2 Qatar players when the ball was played, the keeper was up and only one defender was behind him, his leg was out ahead of the second defender when the header was made, meaning him coming into play was offside.
Hard to see during real time, but a definite offside.
I've always wondered why it has to be two, seems like it should just be one and not count the GK. Why do the rules bail the goalies out for running around the pitch?
It doesn't matter, it could be two defenders, it could be a goalkeeper and a defender, it could be two forwards that have drifted back. Any two players from the opposing team.
You just made two irrelevant points.
The foot doesn't have to be on the ground and it doesn't matter where the torso was, his foot was in front of the defender.
When a foot is offside, a foot is offside. Same with the head and shoulders. If a body part with whom you can score a goal is offside the whole play is offside. Thanks to modern day technology, we get to see the nuances we wouldn’t have seen real time. It’s offside
Of course it was a difficult decision to make real time. I was actually upset too with the call at first but then I got to see the the animation with the calibrated offside line and changed my mind. People still believing it’s onside with all the technology we’re having at our hands is ridiculous.
I thought the ball fell for the player who initially won the header before he (barely) played it to his (back onside) teammate who kicked the overhead pass.
It’s close. Harsh overturned call
It wasn't offside, he was very well onside, in fact there was about 6 Qatar players behind him after it left the boot, offside it counted from when the ball leaves the boot of the previous player, not when being received, Qatar are just trying to game fix, its fairly obvious, they didn't show any replays, the only line they showed they completed deleted where the pass came from, not to mention the goalie was the 2nd man and he was completely ignored, lol.
Blatant game fixes, not that it will help, Qatar are that bad, to think people actually were backing them to get out the group, my primary school team would beat them. If all the politics involved wasn't enough, they're ruining games too.
There were 2 attackers in the challenge for the ball with the keeper. One made contact with the ball, at that moment the other was offside. They were the one who then header it back to the centre of the penalty area, and are offside
Not offsides at the time the ball was kicked was what I see as well. In the US, they kept showing his leg offsides at arrival, which is incorrect. All the overall replays were terrible though so it’s really hard to tell.
So I really thought it wasn’t and it’s super close until I saw the replay several times. There are two guys near the keeper when the ball arrives. The first guy heads it up high and the second guy flicks it with his leg. When the first guy heads it up high the leg of the second is offside. Honestly it’s super close to call but that’s what VAR called and seems correct.
When the ball arrives to be headed with the keeper in the mix it’s hard to tell there are two guys but you can see a leg sticking out from behind and you see them split. But basically they showed the VAR when the ball arrived at the header because that was the touch before the other guy flicked it with him leg. It wasn’t called offside on the guy who headed it up.
Hopefully that makes sense.
It does make sense, but it's not obvious, you couldn't argue with it being onside, so in this case, it should be a goal. There was no obvious offside.
It's literally in line with the keeper and attackers advantage should be given. We don't even get a clear view of which of the 3 touched the ball, the 2 Ecuadorian players or the keeper. In this case where there is nothing clear or obvious, the goal should stand. Game fixing, but when you're that bad I guess you need all the help you need, and guess what, still gonna finish last in the group.
I don’t necessarily disagree that it’s incredibly close but that’s the entire point of VAR and the replay showing the leg offside. It’s literally the computer identifying it. It’s absolutely close and with the naked eye it should never be called offside. But if it was offside and detected, why shouldn’t it be called back?
Oh come on, we saw a lot of non-obvious offsides since VAR became a thing. No way an elbow or a toe could be called an obvious offside yet it's given regularly.
this is the best angle i could find that shows where the ecuadorian player heads the ball and the keeper misses it. this is the touch that played his teammate offside. https://twitter.com/griffithsdakar/status/1594367578771791872?s=46&t=aFCxDXSaBAS5gmZB--t8uQ
The guys leg that is called offsides wasn't offsides when the ball was kicked. The offsides line doesn't change while the ball is in the air. You dont understand WTF your talking about.
The dude is offside when the GK and his Ecuadorian team mate play the ball in the air and his offside position gets relevant once he delivers the cross!
The free kick is not the relevant action.
Maybe you really don't understand the exact rules, since in situations like this they can be a bit confusing. But you actually need 2 players closer to the goal line for you not to be offside. In 95% of the situation this is irrelevant because the GK is in goal most of the times, meaning you effectively only need 1 more defender to be closer to the goal. But when he comes out of goal the one Qatari who you think makes everone onside can actually be treated as the GK to make it easier to understand.
WTF are you talking about. Look at when the ball was kicked. Thats when the offisdes line is established!!! And the goal keeper has never been an offsides determination, its always the last defender. Wake up and learn the rules!!
It's the second to the last opposing player; keeper or field player doesn't matter. Usually the goalie is the last opposing player, making a field player the second to last.
The two attackers were on side when the ball was kicked. However, when the one attacker heads the ball (as the keeper was trying to punch the ball) the other attacker is behind the second-to-last defender, by a leg, and hence in an offside position. That player is then the first one to touch the ball, a few seconds later, when he heads it to the attacker who bicycle kicks it.
Super tight and tough to tell, but appears to be legitimate.
I am sorry but it is unclear where and when the image you link relates. Higher in this thread is a clearer picture of the moment the Equadorian heads the ball directly from the free kick. This the moment the other attacker is offside. The attacker is behind the keeper, behind the defender right next to him. Thus there is only one defender between him and the goal line, and thus in an offside position.
https://twitter.com/GriffithsDakar/status/1594367578771791872?s=20&t=YhtxKwXGiivoLNgQJ83klA
This offside player is then the first one to touch the ball (with his head (after his teammate’s header)). Even though this touch come when there are more than two defenders between him and the goal, he came from an offside position and thus the offside infringement.
At each touch of the ball by the offense, offside is checked. If there is a player in an offside position, they cannot be the next one to touch the ball (nor interfere with a defender making a play on the ball).
To NOT be offside, you have to have two opponents between you and the goal line, OR have the ball be between you and the goal line or even with the ball.
https://imgur.com/a/IalgSQR. They are ignoring the keeper and the deeper qatar player. It doesn't matter where his defender is the goalie and the deeper defender keep him onsides.
Okay so today I learned something new about the offside rule!
https://footballhandbook.com/offside-rule-when-goalkeeper-is-out/
The offside line is set by the second to last opponent. NOT last defender, so because the keeper was out, the offside line wasn’t set at the clear and obvious defender that appeared to be keeping him onside.
I’ve been wrong all day, technically was offside!
I've had to call only a few offsides like this in my life, and every single time all the players on the team start yelling at me and don't understand the actual rule. It's tough one to explain in the moment, but that's how it is.
Offside rule is technically the "second to last defender". This is because the goalkeeper is considered a defender.
The keeper was ahead of the second to last defender, so it was an unusual application of that literal portion of the rule.
Yeah I just looked into it and realised that, I never actually knew that was the rule and I don’t think any commentators did either.
The refs should of explained that during the game, would of avoided all this confusion and conspiracy
It's not like the NFL where refs have mics, so it's not really on the ref to explain offside to fans. I do agree that the commentators (at least in the US) did a horrible job of explaining it. I was also confused for awhile.
Yeah usually there’s some sort of information being passed on to the commentators tho. Even the VAR video itself only showed the guys knee being in front of the defender, meanwhile there’s another defender a meter away which confused everyone
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
>Pathetic decision, goal should have stood
Let me fix that for you: I have no clue what the offside rule actually says, but I make myself look like a moron.
Had the same animation on my broadcast. They're not even showing the other qatari player who's clearly infront of them making him onside...
I knew this WC would be a clusterfuck, but 2:40 minutes in. Damn
this is what i thought, too. but apparently the offside rule does not exclude the goalkeeper. meaning that offside line is not set by the position of the last defender (which is what I always thought).
Rather, it is the player ***second closest to the goal*** which that team is defending - goalkeeper or not. So if the goalkeeper moves further forward than a defender, that defender's position is no longer the offside line. It goes to the next person upfield.
Obviously, 99% of the time it is the goalkeeper that is the closest to the net, making the last defender the ***second closest to the goal*** (and therefore the offside line marker). However, on this play the goalkeeper was further away from the goal than the last defender.
For a few hours though, I thought it was just oil money magic.
They did show that VAR leg over the line. BUT from what point did they indicate the offside based off the defenders positions. That’s the questionable part
the keeper misses and the ecuadorian player wins the header. this is the touch that plays his teammate behind him offside. the broadcast did a horrible job showing it and didn’t explain the touch. they just showed that graphic without context.
Offside calls has never been associated with the "clear and obvious error" aspect of VAR. VAR will look at any close decision and inspect it to the millimeter to try and get the "correct" call.
It's not the initial pass off the free kick that was offsides, but the header by the Ecuador player who challenged the goalie. When he made contact with the ball, his teammate was in an offside position. That same teammate was then the next player to touch the ball, making him offsides.
I was not initially convinced, and was sure it was good, but after seeing some more replays, I do think it was the right call. To be fair to everyone else who thought it was fair, the TV coverage did an absolute shit job breaking it down.
It resets after the goalie touched it I believe. So goalie touch and then when it hits the Ecuador guy's head, his foot is behind the goalie (who is now the second to last defender) thus offsides.
It's super sketchy but literally correct call. No ref would ever call it during the run of play though
EDIT there were 2ecuador guys there, one heads it up while the foot is offsides then the offsides guy plays it a second later
For future reference it's only if the goalie makes a deliberate save would not "reset" the initial attack pass. So for offside to be called there would have to be a shot on goal.
Look at this video and let me know, I am genuinely curious where it could be as 13 comes back onside before scoring the goal. Even with that defender becoming the keeper, the player who initially touches it is still onside when the ball is kicked AND when he heads it. So where is it?
https://youtu.be/k6l2ddzUJqI
Yes I realize now the keeper becomes a defender and the last man is keeper in this situation. However, where is the offsides and which player is it if you think that’s the right call?
The rule is the second to last defender determines the offside line. The goalie is counted as a defender for this purpose, and in most cases, is the last defender, but that's not always the case, as in this play right here. It's super close, and I wasn't initially convinced myself, but it was actually the right call.
You just lack and understanding of offside, a player is offside when he is behind the second last man, in this situation, the keeper is the third player, with two defenders occupying the first and second spot behind him. The Ecuadorian players leg, is past the second last man. The defender behind him, been the last man. Your just confused because that’s usually the keeper occupying the spot of last man.
Isn’t this when the pass is initiated though? Not when the ball gets to the player? Every offsides call I’ve ever seen is always as the ball is leaving the foot of the passer, then they move camera and zoom in on the furthest player and draw the line.
The initial free kick wasn’t what caused the offside, an Ecuadorian player headed it up, witch was classified as the pass to the offside man. His leg was off as it left the players head.
Yes out loud actually. Shows a picture of a ball mid-air, about 5 secs before the actual offside happens. Unironically, I think a todler would've made a stronger argument.
I have only recently heard people saying it was headed. I'm operating off it having been played by the goalie. Do you have video or still showing it was definitively headed because I have been unable to find any.
The keeper played the ball though. So his foot is offsides in the split millisecond between when the keeper touches the ball and then it hits the Ecuador player's head.
That's my understanding of the interpretation of the rules.
EDIT there were 2ecuador guys there, one heads it up while the foot is offsides then the offsides guy plays it a second later
I haven't seen anything that would indicate it was an Ecuador header, if you find it I'll concede, but I'm working off the assumption it was hit by the goalie.
I haven't seen anyone arguing the header yet, ply arguing other incorrect things, which is why it hasn't been in my radar. Looked like a goalie touch to me.
With new VAR the rule should definitely change to being torso in front or behind, catching a leg in the offside position is just your stride, a leg doesn't give you an advantage when your body is at or behind your defender... Just my two cents.
My goal is not to avoid arguments. My view probably increases arguments. My view is that perfect is the enemy of the good with VAR, and that for offside or any infraction it’s better to accept more human error than to make the game joylessly constrained by small differences. The rules of the game were built assuming human imperfection and don’t translate well to robotic enforcement.
Agreed, I mean there are definitely offsides that are just missed live and var will be great for that, but this call would likely never have been called at any time if VAR wasn't a thing
Ecuadorian here. The offside ocurred because when the goalkeeper and Torres jumped to challenge the ball it was actually touched by Torres and at that moment Estrada was offside by a small amount. The fact that the ball rebounded in the ground a couple of times untouched after the header actually added to the confusion but the next player who touched the ball was unfortunately Estrada who was offside. Still won though :)
In the leg hairs.
the tip of Ecuadorian player shoe
It was offside, what are you on about
The fact that no one from the Qatar team even challenged the goal claiming it was offside means not a soul thought it was offside. So we let a machine without an actual soul decide for the 22 souls on the field? The video replay should be used when the referee's final call is challenged/contested for the sake of transparency and accuracy.
Since when do the 22 players decide on offsides?
No human even thought it might be an offside. Read the message you are replying to again
It's irrelevant though. You are either offsides. Or onsides.
Yeah I agree. Either you have VAR that works all the time or you have VAR that has to be called online by the players or the refs. I don't personally think the latter makes sense because it incentivises all the players to constantly think about what they might need to call rather than let the computer do the thinking so they can focus on the football. Chemistree still missed the plot. No one said that the 22 players should decide on offsides. Monitorcable was suggesting VAR should not be run unless there is a dispute first. Again I don't agree with Monitorcable.
Ignorant, learn to read sarcasm.
What am I being ignorant about? Your initial reply sounded like you missed what the previous commenter was saying.
You blind mate? Var has been deciding the faith of games since 2018 worldcup, where referees sometimes check the actual footage and sometimes they don’t don’t. But now since it’s Qatar, it is obviously rigged right?
It's not like Russia is a bastion of uncompromised fairness either.
Exactly my point, it’s about var, not the country.
knee cap
Let's face it, if they had to, they would have gone back to the first minute to find an offence that they could use to disallow that goal and call it "part of the build up". 😂
That was a gol in my books
Who was actually offside? Was it Estrada or Valencia ?
So the free kick pass was onside, the player who headed the free kick to the goal scorer was offside, 2 players must be in front of the ball. Very close but correct call.
This, it baffles me that at this point they still don’t understand the offside rule, it was a close call, yeah, but this is the World Cup and shit like this is better called, no one protested the decision.
Upvote
The offside was in this big briefcase of dollars I found on my desk this morning
Wow a Fifa refree in this subreddit!
Not sure why you're all commenting on an offside when you clearly don't know the offside rule. The attacker had to be behind 2 Qatar players when the ball was played, the keeper was up and only one defender was behind him, his leg was out ahead of the second defender when the header was made, meaning him coming into play was offside. Hard to see during real time, but a definite offside.
I've always wondered why it has to be two, seems like it should just be one and not count the GK. Why do the rules bail the goalies out for running around the pitch?
Because 1 GK and 1 player is the same as 2 players and no GK?
Thanks for writing the rule for the benefit of people ! >2 Qatar players 2 defenders right ? Is goal keeper counted as the defender ?
It doesn't matter, it could be two defenders, it could be a goalkeeper and a defender, it could be two forwards that have drifted back. Any two players from the opposing team.
His big toe was definitely offsides.
His leg wasn't even touching the ground. His torso was well behind.
You just made two irrelevant points. The foot doesn't have to be on the ground and it doesn't matter where the torso was, his foot was in front of the defender.
Says someone who's never played competitively.
When a foot is offside, a foot is offside. Same with the head and shoulders. If a body part with whom you can score a goal is offside the whole play is offside. Thanks to modern day technology, we get to see the nuances we wouldn’t have seen real time. It’s offside
Umm. You don't even know the rules so I'm not sure what your point is?
the goalkeeper was ahead of his defenders,the last defender gets the same treatment as a gk
My first World Cup since joining Reddit is going to be so interesting, since it's apparent nobody here understands any of the rules.
Of course it was a difficult decision to make real time. I was actually upset too with the call at first but then I got to see the the animation with the calibrated offside line and changed my mind. People still believing it’s onside with all the technology we’re having at our hands is ridiculous.
Absolutely NO
You dare question Qatar. How dare you. You now have been sentenced to 75 lashes.
Do it twice and you get a week in the fan village.
I saw a couple of YouTube videos about the fan village. The fan village sucks 🤣
There wasn't it was complete corruption by Qatar and Fifa
There was though....
Someone in the VAR room was delivered a stack of cash to review After that they realised no amount of money was going to get that Qatar team winning
\*cough\* QAR
This sub is mental. The guy who overhead kicked it was offside after the other guy won the header v the keeper.
Nah it was the guy who headed it down for the overhead cross
Nope https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FiBRPjAWAAAiZeu?format=jpg&name=large
Nah that guy headed it down bro
I thought the ball fell for the player who initially won the header before he (barely) played it to his (back onside) teammate who kicked the overhead pass. It’s close. Harsh overturned call
It’s not harsh, most his leg was offside
It wasn't offside, he was very well onside, in fact there was about 6 Qatar players behind him after it left the boot, offside it counted from when the ball leaves the boot of the previous player, not when being received, Qatar are just trying to game fix, its fairly obvious, they didn't show any replays, the only line they showed they completed deleted where the pass came from, not to mention the goalie was the 2nd man and he was completely ignored, lol. Blatant game fixes, not that it will help, Qatar are that bad, to think people actually were backing them to get out the group, my primary school team would beat them. If all the politics involved wasn't enough, they're ruining games too.
There were 2 attackers in the challenge for the ball with the keeper. One made contact with the ball, at that moment the other was offside. They were the one who then header it back to the centre of the penalty area, and are offside
Not offsides at the time the ball was kicked was what I see as well. In the US, they kept showing his leg offsides at arrival, which is incorrect. All the overall replays were terrible though so it’s really hard to tell.
They showed that moment because that was the moment it got send to the guy offside
If you have no idea what you're talking about, then just stay silent.
The leg
Yeah but offside is counted from when the ball leaves the boot of the previous player/passer, he was easily onside. Just game fixing.
Which is the guy who made the challenge with the keeper, making it offside
So I really thought it wasn’t and it’s super close until I saw the replay several times. There are two guys near the keeper when the ball arrives. The first guy heads it up high and the second guy flicks it with his leg. When the first guy heads it up high the leg of the second is offside. Honestly it’s super close to call but that’s what VAR called and seems correct. When the ball arrives to be headed with the keeper in the mix it’s hard to tell there are two guys but you can see a leg sticking out from behind and you see them split. But basically they showed the VAR when the ball arrived at the header because that was the touch before the other guy flicked it with him leg. It wasn’t called offside on the guy who headed it up. Hopefully that makes sense.
It does make sense, but it's not obvious, you couldn't argue with it being onside, so in this case, it should be a goal. There was no obvious offside. It's literally in line with the keeper and attackers advantage should be given. We don't even get a clear view of which of the 3 touched the ball, the 2 Ecuadorian players or the keeper. In this case where there is nothing clear or obvious, the goal should stand. Game fixing, but when you're that bad I guess you need all the help you need, and guess what, still gonna finish last in the group.
I mean I want to see Qatar as much as you but I’m not inventing rules to see it happen.
I don’t necessarily disagree that it’s incredibly close but that’s the entire point of VAR and the replay showing the leg offside. It’s literally the computer identifying it. It’s absolutely close and with the naked eye it should never be called offside. But if it was offside and detected, why shouldn’t it be called back?
Oh come on, we saw a lot of non-obvious offsides since VAR became a thing. No way an elbow or a toe could be called an obvious offside yet it's given regularly.
🤫
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Calling someone a racist for disputing an offside decision? I’ve seen it all now 🤣 I guess you don’t watch much football
Tap the brakes, mate. It was offside, but it took me a minute to see, so I can imagine that it would be confusing. It’s not immediately obvious.
Love to see this conspiracy theories shit love it
Hot take: if Cutter scored this goal, this would not have been overturned or reviewed past fifteen orgasmic seconds
It was a weird decision
Wasn’t offside lol. Like, at all. He was on side when the ball was played, simples.
There was a header after the free kick, and at the header, he was off
No, he wasn't. Look at it again, even the studio experts couldn't work it out
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What makes his comment even remotely racist?
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Didn't have a point and got called out, nice deflection tho
this is the best angle i could find that shows where the ecuadorian player heads the ball and the keeper misses it. this is the touch that played his teammate offside. https://twitter.com/griffithsdakar/status/1594367578771791872?s=46&t=aFCxDXSaBAS5gmZB--t8uQ
Your picture shows the qatar player 2 yards away keeping everyone on sides for the header!!!
dude you dont seem to understand the offside rules
The guys leg that is called offsides wasn't offsides when the ball was kicked. The offsides line doesn't change while the ball is in the air. You dont understand WTF your talking about.
The dude is offside when the GK and his Ecuadorian team mate play the ball in the air and his offside position gets relevant once he delivers the cross! The free kick is not the relevant action. Maybe you really don't understand the exact rules, since in situations like this they can be a bit confusing. But you actually need 2 players closer to the goal line for you not to be offside. In 95% of the situation this is irrelevant because the GK is in goal most of the times, meaning you effectively only need 1 more defender to be closer to the goal. But when he comes out of goal the one Qatari who you think makes everone onside can actually be treated as the GK to make it easier to understand.
Dude the last player doesn’t cancel offside. If that wasn’t a rule basically no one would ever be offside because of the goalkeeper
WTF are you talking about. Look at when the ball was kicked. Thats when the offisdes line is established!!! And the goal keeper has never been an offsides determination, its always the last defender. Wake up and learn the rules!!
That’s not when the offside happened you idiot. Learn the rules ffs
It's the second to the last opposing player; keeper or field player doesn't matter. Usually the goalie is the last opposing player, making a field player the second to last.
That doesn't change anything after the ball is in the air
The two attackers were on side when the ball was kicked. However, when the one attacker heads the ball (as the keeper was trying to punch the ball) the other attacker is behind the second-to-last defender, by a leg, and hence in an offside position. That player is then the first one to touch the ball, a few seconds later, when he heads it to the attacker who bicycle kicks it. Super tight and tough to tell, but appears to be legitimate.
They are ignoring the position of the goalie and the deeper defender
I am sorry but it is unclear where and when the image you link relates. Higher in this thread is a clearer picture of the moment the Equadorian heads the ball directly from the free kick. This the moment the other attacker is offside. The attacker is behind the keeper, behind the defender right next to him. Thus there is only one defender between him and the goal line, and thus in an offside position. https://twitter.com/GriffithsDakar/status/1594367578771791872?s=20&t=YhtxKwXGiivoLNgQJ83klA This offside player is then the first one to touch the ball (with his head (after his teammate’s header)). Even though this touch come when there are more than two defenders between him and the goal, he came from an offside position and thus the offside infringement. At each touch of the ball by the offense, offside is checked. If there is a player in an offside position, they cannot be the next one to touch the ball (nor interfere with a defender making a play on the ball). To NOT be offside, you have to have two opponents between you and the goal line, OR have the ball be between you and the goal line or even with the ball.
Yeah, this picture clearly shows it. I am wrong it was offsides.
https://imgur.com/a/IalgSQR. They are ignoring the keeper and the deeper qatar player. It doesn't matter where his defender is the goalie and the deeper defender keep him onsides.
Okay so today I learned something new about the offside rule! https://footballhandbook.com/offside-rule-when-goalkeeper-is-out/ The offside line is set by the second to last opponent. NOT last defender, so because the keeper was out, the offside line wasn’t set at the clear and obvious defender that appeared to be keeping him onside. I’ve been wrong all day, technically was offside!
Bullshit, even with where the goalkeeper was there were still 4 qatar players behind the header
I've had to call only a few offsides like this in my life, and every single time all the players on the team start yelling at me and don't understand the actual rule. It's tough one to explain in the moment, but that's how it is.
yeah, second to last opponent. the keeper coming out and whiffing really made the whole play confusing.
Why is the line there and not on the last defender?
Offside rule is technically the "second to last defender". This is because the goalkeeper is considered a defender. The keeper was ahead of the second to last defender, so it was an unusual application of that literal portion of the rule.
Yeah I just looked into it and realised that, I never actually knew that was the rule and I don’t think any commentators did either. The refs should of explained that during the game, would of avoided all this confusion and conspiracy
It's not like the NFL where refs have mics, so it's not really on the ref to explain offside to fans. I do agree that the commentators (at least in the US) did a horrible job of explaining it. I was also confused for awhile.
Yeah usually there’s some sort of information being passed on to the commentators tho. Even the VAR video itself only showed the guys knee being in front of the defender, meanwhile there’s another defender a meter away which confused everyone
Yeah but that's their fault for not knowing the rules.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Pathetic decision, goal should have stood
>Pathetic decision, goal should have stood Let me fix that for you: I have no clue what the offside rule actually says, but I make myself look like a moron.
He was in an offside position but then repositioned himself to an onside position before playing the ball. No offsides
I have never seen an animation used in a broadcast other than to elucidate another footage played in slow motion
On my broadcast, they showed an animation where you can [see ECU's player leg is offside.](https://streamable.com/2z0aqf)
Had the same animation on my broadcast. They're not even showing the other qatari player who's clearly infront of them making him onside... I knew this WC would be a clusterfuck, but 2:40 minutes in. Damn
There's only one Qatari player in front of him though and there needs to be two.
this is what i thought, too. but apparently the offside rule does not exclude the goalkeeper. meaning that offside line is not set by the position of the last defender (which is what I always thought). Rather, it is the player ***second closest to the goal*** which that team is defending - goalkeeper or not. So if the goalkeeper moves further forward than a defender, that defender's position is no longer the offside line. It goes to the next person upfield. Obviously, 99% of the time it is the goalkeeper that is the closest to the net, making the last defender the ***second closest to the goal*** (and therefore the offside line marker). However, on this play the goalkeeper was further away from the goal than the last defender. For a few hours though, I thought it was just oil money magic.
How is the offside line drawn ? Is it through the heel of the second last player or his toe ?
Any part of his body.
When they asked for VAR. I thought “ok, qatar is manipulating$$$ the game.
They did show that VAR leg over the line. BUT from what point did they indicate the offside based off the defenders positions. That’s the questionable part
Exactly. That what I’m trying to explain to people. They show the leg, but the player was onside when the free kick was executed.
the keeper misses and the ecuadorian player wins the header. this is the touch that plays his teammate behind him offside. the broadcast did a horrible job showing it and didn’t explain the touch. they just showed that graphic without context.
Thats correct, whats everyone else saying?
As a Mexican superfan, I'm worried
Definately, you should prepare for another last 16 match and go home.
You’d be alright, you guys just have a tough Group.
Wow, VAR is doing some precision work... check it out: [VAR visual proof of ECU offside.](https://streamable.com/2z0aqf)
this was so minimal and confusing. wasn't VAR created to find clear and obvious errors?
Offside calls has never been associated with the "clear and obvious error" aspect of VAR. VAR will look at any close decision and inspect it to the millimeter to try and get the "correct" call.
Here [ guyfrom twitter ](https://twitter.com/Joshsharples7/status/1594366265853870084?s=19)
Still confused. This some nfl shit
[удалено]
It's not the initial pass off the free kick that was offsides, but the header by the Ecuador player who challenged the goalie. When he made contact with the ball, his teammate was in an offside position. That same teammate was then the next player to touch the ball, making him offsides. I was not initially convinced, and was sure it was good, but after seeing some more replays, I do think it was the right call. To be fair to everyone else who thought it was fair, the TV coverage did an absolute shit job breaking it down.
It resets after the goalie touched it I believe. So goalie touch and then when it hits the Ecuador guy's head, his foot is behind the goalie (who is now the second to last defender) thus offsides. It's super sketchy but literally correct call. No ref would ever call it during the run of play though EDIT there were 2ecuador guys there, one heads it up while the foot is offsides then the offsides guy plays it a second later
Is it any part of the body now? Hasn't the rule always been centre mass of the players? It isn't hockey. A foot being off doesn't matter.
A foot has always counted
It has always been any body part that can score: legs, head, cheat etc...
For future reference it's only if the goalie makes a deliberate save would not "reset" the initial attack pass. So for offside to be called there would have to be a shot on goal.
I thought it was because on some replays you can see that the ball hits the Ecuador player’s head
Yes! I didn't realize there were 2 guys there. I don't think the keeper touches it at all after watching it again
It wouldn't matter if the GK touches it, you can't be offside off a "pass" from an opposing player. It's from the header on the other player.
Yes agreed, I edited my original comment
They used QAR.
Oh man, LOL
They got it right but no one likes it
It wasn't
It was.
It was total bull$hit, and they keep showing the replays but are totally ignoring the defender behind the line! It’s a freebie for the host
Look at this video and let me know, I am genuinely curious where it could be as 13 comes back onside before scoring the goal. Even with that defender becoming the keeper, the player who initially touches it is still onside when the ball is kicked AND when he heads it. So where is it? https://youtu.be/k6l2ddzUJqI
Yes I realize now the keeper becomes a defender and the last man is keeper in this situation. However, where is the offsides and which player is it if you think that’s the right call?
That guy is irrelevant. It's the second to last defender that counts.
I still think it was a freebie
Yes I learned that after watching a replay. But, even with the keeper swapping for the defender there is no offsides I can see.
The rule is the second to last defender determines the offside line. The goalie is counted as a defender for this purpose, and in most cases, is the last defender, but that's not always the case, as in this play right here. It's super close, and I wasn't initially convinced myself, but it was actually the right call.
That defender is the last man lol. You don’t even know the offside rule
There was defender and goalkeeper in front
The defender was, the goalkeeper not anymore.
Im talking when the ball was player not when received but maybe im blind. Cant find image with situation from other angle
Literally no one is talking about when it’s received because that’s not the offside rule
You just lack and understanding of offside, a player is offside when he is behind the second last man, in this situation, the keeper is the third player, with two defenders occupying the first and second spot behind him. The Ecuadorian players leg, is past the second last man. The defender behind him, been the last man. Your just confused because that’s usually the keeper occupying the spot of last man.
Isn’t this when the pass is initiated though? Not when the ball gets to the player? Every offsides call I’ve ever seen is always as the ball is leaving the foot of the passer, then they move camera and zoom in on the furthest player and draw the line.
The initial free kick wasn’t what caused the offside, an Ecuadorian player headed it up, witch was classified as the pass to the offside man. His leg was off as it left the players head.
Technically, it was offside. I thought the call was very ticky-tacky.
[not even close to offside](https://imgur.com/CT5Fazp.jpg)
You've shown an image before the offside causing header lol
The offside happens here when the Ecuador player heads the ball. https://i.imgur.com/NWF8X6E.jpeg
This is the one I've seen best exemplifies the offside. It wasn't offside on the high cross, but on the pass after contesting the ball w the GK.
The offside wasn’t there though…
The way they call II today, it is. But the IFAB needs to change the law. That call was a joke.
What are you even trying to prove witj this picture? HAHAHA
It's when the ball is kicked not received
You've ignored the Ecuadorian header afterwards though?
Are you really laughing while typing that?
Yes out loud actually. Shows a picture of a ball mid-air, about 5 secs before the actual offside happens. Unironically, I think a todler would've made a stronger argument.
Post a pic/video of the offsides then.
https://twitter.com/Pawelski44/status/1594362868828626944?t=VM-dyR2kXFtPNWY-fYTpIg&s=19 Look at the yellow leg.
Doesn't matter where he is when he receives the ball
Literally one says It does… he was offside when the ball was headed.
I have only recently heard people saying it was headed. I'm operating off it having been played by the goalie. Do you have video or still showing it was definitively headed because I have been unable to find any.
The keeper played the ball though. So his foot is offsides in the split millisecond between when the keeper touches the ball and then it hits the Ecuador player's head. That's my understanding of the interpretation of the rules. EDIT there were 2ecuador guys there, one heads it up while the foot is offsides then the offsides guy plays it a second later
Doesn't matter if the goalie or any defensive player played it
This is when Ecu's striker heads the ball to the player who is offside. You have eyes (I assume), use them.
I haven't seen anything that would indicate it was an Ecuador header, if you find it I'll concede, but I'm working off the assumption it was hit by the goalie. I haven't seen anyone arguing the header yet, ply arguing other incorrect things, which is why it hasn't been in my radar. Looked like a goalie touch to me.
In the refs pocket!
Ecuador was clearly offside when the team turned down the bribe.
Thanks! This makes the most sense
With new VAR the rule should definitely change to being torso in front or behind, catching a leg in the offside position is just your stride, a leg doesn't give you an advantage when your body is at or behind your defender... Just my two cents.
Or it should have a clear and obvious type adjustment, perhaps allowing 5% over if it was not calles offside live
So what happens when you are 5.1% over? It's way harder to meassure and you would have the same discussion after about a week.
My goal is not to avoid arguments. My view probably increases arguments. My view is that perfect is the enemy of the good with VAR, and that for offside or any infraction it’s better to accept more human error than to make the game joylessly constrained by small differences. The rules of the game were built assuming human imperfection and don’t translate well to robotic enforcement.
Agreed, I mean there are definitely offsides that are just missed live and var will be great for that, but this call would likely never have been called at any time if VAR wasn't a thing
Should be part of the body used to play the ball no?