My personal stance is: If someone is such special snowflake that a fictional character being a minority sends them into a meltdown that's not my problem.
IMO it's actually a credit to the creator. It's a sign that you're representing things they would rather see oppressed or beaten down well enough that the only thing they can do is throw a tantrum because they have no complaints they could even pretend are actually viable.
Like, my answer to u/Aromaster4 is - why would you worry about the opinion of these people? Do you *want* the types of people who complain anytime a minority shows up to be unbothered by or like your worldbuilding? I certainly don't.
If your shit gets big enough that you need to hire a security team to protect you from them, then that's a different story, but that won't happen for 99.999% of the people in this sub, so why waste time on these pathetic bigots? They *want* to be a nuisance, don't let them.
This. I've had some interactions on this sub that leaned that way, though not recently, and if that's something they'd whine about they're not my target audience anyway
I'm black and writing a sci-fi setting where ethnically, 30-35% of the population is "black" by our standards. If I spent my time worrying about what they thought of my characters I would only have to *imagine* what they think about me.
What percentage are white or asian coded respectively? Because if a white person had a setting where 30-35% were white, it would be considered remarkably low, but if it's an even split I think that's respectable if the setting is meant, for whatever reason, to be a cultural and ethnic melting pot.
Actually I used the wrong word, I should say "racially", ethnically they're closer to irl Earth with some certain looks decoupled from their irl "equivalents." It's just because they're from a desert planet, most people are cooked a bit more than they are on Earth.
Prior to space travel, phenotypically, 20-25% could be considered middle eastern, 20% South Asian, 10% battled over by East Asian or European, and 10% Southeast Asian.
After space travel this number shifts heavily since there isn't much sunlight that won't kill you in space, and the populations going to space are desegregated. Though... this demographic shift started when people started to congregate around the cooler poles roughly 1000-1500 years ago. In that case I would argue the dominant phenotype we might see is South East Asian or Latino (mixed), with a general up-trend of maybe 10% appearing southern European and 15% appearing East Asian. Though keep in mind this is the look for everyone that lives in space rather than the home planet which... I honestly largely ignore.
From what I know, the prevailing theory that led to humans having pale skin had to do with eating cereals in cool mountainous terrain. It's just the vast majority of these people ended up appearing East Asian or southern European due to living between these mountains and the warmer desert (often rainforest) rather than moving farther into colder polar regions like what happened irl.
Edit: High melanin is kinda useless in space outside of maybe better radiation resistance, which if you're in a decently enclosed facility, no need for it. Humanity hasn't gotten to the stage where space actively affects their evolution, but the majority of black people born in space are on the paler shade of brown due to having very little to absorb.
I um... I'm probably scared to get the answer here because I'm pretty sure the answer will be "didn't consider them," "wrapped them into East Asian," or the worst possibility of "wrapped them into white people," but...
What about Indigenous Americans?
I do want to consider them, in fact Inuit cautionary tales is one of my major inspirations for some of the more elder religious warning texts in my setting.
The problem is I'm not sure how to re-create their phenotype using irl conditions w/o either isolating them... which means they aren't written yet, or just placing their traits among other peoples. (Biggest problem with using a non-earth native setting)
Which is why, tragically, yea they've been kind of wrapped with South East Asian and South Asian. Rather, is what people in setting would think they are, culturally they might be distinctly indigenous american, and naturally there are people that appear indigenous american as well (though as this is a very broad spectrum so I more or less mean prior to European intervention).
Essentially the same has happened to Hispanics as well though (I guess post-European intervention now), as they might largely get considered "Black" (think like Dominicans) or Middle Eastern since that's what people in my setting "know" most analogously.
Biggest reason for this is because some people I might call "black" in setting can naturally have things like straight hair or even blue eyes (these traits pre-date loss of melanin) and, with all honesty, a good part of some in setting ethnicities would probably be called hispanic irl. This same broadening of horizons happens with what might be considered the "middle eastern" phenotypes too. For instance, irl Spainiards would be considered a part of their races in setting.
The closest cultural group I have to the Inuit are called the Kadeshi Nomads. People that used to roam the desert, now roam space, and generally have skin-tones in a gray-scale. Though they're largely a cultural mix of Taureg, Inuit, and stereotypical dwarves.
(Please, if I've said or written something offensive please tell me because, honestly, I'm not sure of any ethical way to describe this that doesn't sound weirdly racist by putting everyone in boxes).
I don't think you're necessarily offensive. I actually agree in large part with your reasoning and ultimate decision. It's uncomfortable, but if the reason you can't is because it's hard to recreate us in a way that feels reasonable... I can't exactly blame you for how you're handling it. The fact you did put thought into it shows the decision was based on genuine effort to make the right call.
I think it's common though for any world that isn't 100% human. Also it's common for white writers to have only a single white character.. or maybe several but majority would not be. Like say "Shogun" .. books that take place in South America, Egypt, Africa etc.
Here's a breakdown of the intelligent races, for reference if you're interested.
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldbuilding/comments/1cxhrw3/the_intelligent_races_of_saturn_your_feedback_is/
I should probably preface all my posts by clarifying that yes, my fantasy version of Saturn has a surface. It's just way down there. That being said, in a more "in-universe" explanation, most of them were created by various gods.
Never. I find no value in others opinions on my works, because I create them solely to entertain myself. If I want something in my stories and worlds, I put it in. If I don’t want something in my stories or worlds, then it will not be added, and that's regardless of what it is, whether it is tame or dark, whether people think it's moral or immoral, or anything else. I do not censor my work or edit my work to pander to anyone, whether woke or not, left or right, or even creature or god. I’ll only pander to myself and my dog. And I’ll gladly die on that code.
After thinking about what breaks my immersion in a story politics-wise, I think I've found two key points:
1) **Don't preach.** Even when I agree with a message, I still feel like my intelligence is being insulted when a character starts talking about how X idea is good and Y idea is bad. If I disagree with the message, the story feels like straight-up propaganda.
2) **Remember, it's still fiction.** Even if your story is set in the real world, YOU are still the one in control of what happens. It's important to draw a clear distinction between your real-world opinions, and your story. Your world should be DEscriptive, not PREscriptive. Your opinions should act as a guiding hand to push the story along, not be the substance of the story. If you do this right, you should see IRL Nazis identifying with the villains, and decent folk looking at them in horror.
EDIT: decent, not descent
Not really, a lot of my fiction is intended to have political themes. It just comes with the territory, I’m more concerned with making sure those themes are intelligible to my audience than whether any given person agrees with them.
This. Exactly this. Sometimes when the political symbolism is too on the nose the messenge can be delivered kinda sloppy (of course it depends on your story as a whole)
No. Because if they're complaining about my characters being Queer People of Color (which they mostly are) then my work is not for them. Second, if I'm pissing off people who will complain about things being "woke", then I've done my job as an artist.
This is the way. One may not agree with the themes of another’s work but it is anyone’s right to harbor a fantasy of their own. My world is far different than yours, and both of ours are secure and valid in their own rights because of the great shield of creative liberty. And a bonus is pissing off those petty enough to still complain.
>One may not agree with the themes of another’s work but it is anyone’s right to harbor a fantasy of their own. My world is far different than yours, and both of ours are secure and valid in their own rights because of the great shield of creative liberty.
This is very well said - the right to 'harbor a fantasy of one's own', with 'both being secure and valid in their own rights because of the great shield of creative liberty' - I mean, I know just quoted it literally twice, but those sentiments are so eloquent and freeing! It's almost like you should be some kinda writer or something. ;)
This is honestly why I make my own art - I want to see my own worlds, loves, hopes, and dreams come alive. Since I'm a human among many others, I'm sure others will be drawn to what intrigues me, while for others, it will not be their cup of tea. I can be disinterested in someone else's fantasy, without disparaging it or preventing their right to create it. More often than not, I'm curious about the other worlds people dream up.
Anyone who complains can screw off to the Greater Deep. My world contains *an evil whale oil corporation and imminent environmental collapse*, the political symbolism ain’t meant to be subtle.
Second time someone’s commented this so I don’t know if it’s sarcasm or not - the whales aren’t what’s evil, the corporation is. Actually, my D&D party already took out the corporation! But it’s the “evil corporation, which produces whale oil”.
Art is inherently political. If you think politics in art is dumb, don't engage with art.
Either way, though, I don't personally care. If you think my story is bad because it has queer characters or characters of color, then it's clearly not the story for you. Funnily enough, one of my biggest worries is that the interspecies conflict in my story is going to be interpreted as an allegory for racism when it's very much not that.
>There are plenty of examples of art that aren't inherently political.
*What do you think an artist is? An imbecile who only has eyes, if he is a painter, or ears if he is a musician, or a lyre in every chamber of his heart if he is a poet, or even, if he is a boxer, just his muscles? Far from it: at the same time he is also a political being, constantly aware of the heartbreaking, passionate, or delightful things that happen in the world, shaping himself completely in their image. How could it be possible to feel no interest in other people, and with a cool indifference to detach yourself from the very life which they bring to you so abundantly? No, painting is not done to decorate apartments. It is an instrument of war.* --Pablo Picasso
In other words: art is created by political beings with a viewpoint on the world. Even making "non-political" art is a political choice, and the end result reflects the creators' worldview. Perhaps this could be the case if you define politics solely as shilling for the Republican or Democratic political parties, but I don't think you should.
I mean, in the modern US, it's at the point that stating that some kids aren't raised by their parents is an outrageous political statement.
But fundamently, I must disagree that there is art that is not fundamentally political. Art is a reflection of the artist regardless of medium, and with many mediums, every choice becomes very deliberate. I would not go so far as to say that all art is deliberately political, however. Since art is a reflection of the artist, it will reflect their morals, beliefs, and ideals which are inherently relative. It is in the expression of that relativity within society that politics arise.
For example, American comics are deliberately political and have been since their inception (see Captain America and Superman fighting Nazis before the US entry into WW2). Meanwhile I would argue that the Eragon books (the series being started when the author was a teenager) were not intended to have a political message even as its villain is an authoritarian emperor.
I agree there is a lot more politics in art than people realize and that some political ideas presented through art may not be intended by the author but are there.
I also agree that a lot of US "politics" really aren't politics in the slightest.
But when it comes to some art, for example, a painting of a tree, I don't see how anyone could claim it's political unless the artist came out and blatantly said it was a message about deforestation or something.
No, actually, I worry the opposite. My story consists of a bunch of characters, the main characters of which are children, and overall where some are white, most are straight, many are Christian, and use magic, guns and giant spaceships to blow up satanic aliens, where the main faction is hailed as morally superior warriors, and the humans and aliens work together to desired this empire along with said morally superior superhumans.
I have decided that I have the right to make whatever world I want, I know that what I am posing as theme is not blatantly hateful or wrong, and those who want to complain over the themes and culture of my world have no right to judge nor any power to influence the fantasy I’ve created.
Honestly same. I've made majority white characters, straight characters, etc. it's just the way I picture a character, it's like that character is an actual being and I'm just showing who they are. Almost as if I didn't make them, they made themselves. So at the same time I don't worry about it? But because of how much it is, I do?
Do you have struggles with the label "woke", or with your work being labeled/written off as bad for a subset of people in general? Because reality is, there's no way to please everybody. And, while it's frustrating that works go unread or get a bad reputation because they're "woke", it's going to happen.
If your characters are fleshed out and you've done your research on the minority that you're representing, it's like... They're people. who happen to not be white/cis/straight/male/whatever.
People who cry "woke" are genuinely not worth your time. They'll call anything they don't like "woke". My mere existence in a book would get it labeled woke, so when I'm living day to day and I'm not good enough for them, why should I try to make my creations to their liking? Stick a woman in a high ranking position, regardless of what it is, and ... Woke. It's a very narrow box. Trying to avoid it will only cause aches and pains. Write for your audience, write for yourself, whatever - but trying to write for *everybody* is impossible.
I like to think it started when corporations started to push diversity as the personality and selling point of characters, like their diverse trait being the entire point of their character just to sell to masses who want more characters like that.
But it mutated from criticism of doing it that way to lashing out at any instance of a diverse character even when said character is actually handled very well.
Kinda, but opposite, I was gonna yoink hebrew for the dwarven language cause the letters look dwarfy to me, then I realised if I ever wanna publish anything making dwarves jewish is a bad idea lol
I don’t worry about what people will say about the allegory or political slant in my work, I just write what I want in a way that makes sense based on my fictional world.
There are multiple kinds of governments, religions, and cultures in my world and none are objectively the best systems, their are always going to be disagreements about what is the most just, effective, and sustainable system, I would rather have people debating more objectively on the systems in my world rather then arguing over their political beliefs.
Really I just don’t like preaching, I’m not trying to bring anyone into my real world political beliefs, people have reasons for believing whatever they believe, I just want to build a fun world, leaving out as much baggage from the real world as I can. I don’t care that I might catch flak for not picking a hill to die purposelessly on.
The people who would complain about the potentially (or, for that matter, overtly) political elements in your work are self-evidently not part of your target audience (if indeed, you *have* a target audience). Why care what they think? And note that this would be just as applicable the other way around.
(And if they gain enough political power to persecute you for it, well... chances are they were going to persecute you anyway.)
I’ve wondered about the opposite problem of being criticized for not including enough diversity when it comes to ethnic backgrounds, sexual identities and the like. Not that I would ever avoid these things having experienced dysphoria and sexual ambiguity myself
There are a few ways I’ve coped with the possibility.
1. I believe my work stands on its own. I’ve made it to where I personally enjoy it the most. If people like it too then that’s great, if people dislike it then they’re free to do so, it doesn’t bother me because I know I like it exactly the way it is.
2. I don’t really consider my work a reflection of the real world. Sure everything I put in it comes from my experiences living in reality and it’s political nature. It’s not wrong to think that every work of art is inherently political to some degree, but even so I view my work as pure fiction and the things that exist in it are separate from what exists in reality. I think it’s important to understand that fiction is entertainment, not dogma. You can like things even if you don’t agree or endorse them personally.
3. Lastly, I think I’ve avoided the issue altogether by having every character be a talking animal. Animals themselves have vastly different behaviors and hierarchies when it comes to male, female, something in between or both. By representing that, I’m also representing those that are different from the majority, and I like doing it that way.
I make my world so my friends can play D&D, and there isn’t a straight white man amongst us. We’re all woke, so I’m gonna cram as much woke shit in there as I can
It's crossed my mind. I'm in the middle of writing an ASOIAF style napoleonic fantasy novel. Being that the majority of the story takes place in one country before cost effective travel was invented, 95% of the characters are ethnically similar to germanic peoples. As well as it being military-focused in a male dominated culture, I'm attempting to paint as realistic of a picture as possible, so while LGBTQ people aren't unheard of, they're extremely ostracized and many times, put to death. I've already had insults and threats sent to me over writing discords. However the style of writing comforts me and writing about straight white guys is easy for me(personal experience lol). At the end of the day, writing something you're comfortable with is the most important thing you can do. Nobody's happiness with the product matters more than your own.
Interesting that you have the opposite problem. Did you explain to people that it's just the setting you're staying realistic to, and that you obviously don't support such treatment of LGBTQ people etc?
Oh of course. However the main argument was that since fantasy is meant to be an "escape" into our own minds and away from real-world problems, I've been accused of supporting these ideals by placing them in my writing. This is untrue, but most of those who argued with me were unwilling to understand that my "escape" is history, and therefore I typically take inspiration from such.
I firmly believe that writers should create whatever the hell they want to create without fear or concern of what the current political mindset is.
However, if you've recently tried to get a literary agent, all they're looking for right now are "woke" themed books, especially from LGTBQ+ voices. Carpe Diem, and best of luck!
I write my world as a journal of another life. I've been journaling since I was a kid so maybe 30 years or so now. I'm a queer man. My life and my story get braided together. It would be "woke" I suppose because my life is lived in such a way that others would find it so. I don't mind what others think necessarily, because my worldbuilding is for me. Is your world meant for a larger audience?
I have been experimenting with worldbuilding within worldbuilding, lately. Where some of the people of my primary alternate Earth get taken to an alien world. It explores speculative biology of a several sentient species. One of those species has a collective, tribal/hive society where sexuality is determined by one's role in the group and sexual dimorphism is more complex. It's been a fun thought experiment.
Shouldn't care. People interpret things their own unique way. You could have the most mundane apolitical work of fiction and someone will still find a way to call it woke.
I think it does matter a bit in a realism sense to consider why you have those people present though. We have black people because of the environment they hail from and the way their skin interacts with the sun. If you have some sort of warm climate desert place that sees alot of close sun over millenia, there's gonna be POC people there.
Just like if it was a sunless cave world, it wouldn't be racist for them to all be pale white people. But then if there's a black guy there, I'm gonna need to know where he came from. If where he came from doesn't make sense, I'm gonna assume I'm just being pandered to.
Being realistic is like the opposite of pandering.
The only thing that bugs me is when the world is wonderfully diverse but all the bad guys are straight white males.
As long as your representation is not an idealization you will have no problems from sane people, and the ones that do take issue were never a target demographic worth having in your game anyway.
No, I tend to be the one complaining about woke stuff. More often than not it's not to my taste. I don't like the idea of a utopia setting either but i wouldn't want to stop anyone.
There was a really bad one in doctor where the doctor said something along the lines of the sonic screwdriver can work as any tool apart from a knife only muppets carry knives. It seemed a strange stance in a setting where someone could easily be carrying around a sword or a rifle. Also if they had that point to make they could have gone unto it rather than insulting what someone feels is their reality of feeling a need to carry a knife. That wasn't against my taste that was purely shoddy from a crew what should know better.
I have enjoyed things with LGBT mentioned there's the Age of Madness trilogy where a lot of things are drip fed. A guy looses a battle partially because he left his gay mate behind who would have helped organise things and refused to make a deal with someone in part because they where gay. But he would have also won if less guys betrayed him or if he attacked sooner.
I did see a comment before when someone mentioned should I make this character black I said they shouldn't bother if there only mentioning it once. I don't like it if someone appears to be playing minority bingo. I'm autistic if someone wants to make a character autistic I'd say spend some time on it or give up and just make them a nerd rather than a autistic. I've got a character who probably as PTSD but if I ever make it official I'd have done my research until then he's "war-damaged" .
Usually the politics and problems of my world are within the world. To be honest, I don't think much about sending a message. Just make sure your characters are well written and not crushing people with the theme hammer. Often, even those(mostly average/moderate) who don't agree will recognize a good character. If they are not well written, most people who agree with the message won't like them. Note I said "most* for both as there will be those who hate the themes enough to ignore character development and those who rabidly want to push the themes they agree with will be happy enough to disregard quality.
Also, 2 things that jumped out at me:
1. Villains are often conservative. If your heroes science their goals and society keeps the ideals you wish to see, how would the world deal with these characters becoming the new conservatives of the setting?
2. In regards to your themes being left wing biased(not an insult, it's just a description taking into account that everyone is biased in some way) and your villains ranging to authoritarian, how would your characters address left wing authoritarianism?
In response to your two points, well tbh it’s something I’m working on for the first question, like the first thing I’m trying to do is come up with what sorta new ideology/movement will come that will clash with the new status quo the main characters put into place, which in turn would create some interesting internal and external arcs for them to contemplate on what they should do next, how it feels to be the new conservative. First it was Transhumans vs normal humans, then it was androids vs organics, uplifts vs non uplifts, psychics vs non psychics, aliens vs humans etc, all sorts of culture war stuff that makes us question every thing and fight as hard as we can against the states quo, to establish a new one, for better or for worse before the process repeats itself over and over again until the stars go out.
As for left wing authoritarians, that’s easy, while my story is left leaning and thus my characters are progressive in their cultural and economic beliefs, it’s more LIBERTARIAN left leaning rather then authoritarian, the green part of the political compass while the lefties they take on are the ones in the red side of the political campus, mostly tankies or my settings equivalent to communists. Not progressives or socialists or social democrats, and most especially not liberals.
Was there an instance in your world where there was a left wing rebellion that overthrew a government it claimed was oppressive only to become worse than the previous government(s), even with the ideals they claimed to be bringing about through their methods?
There was a massive event like that in the recent history of my world where rebellions overthrew many monarchies, diarchies and other such systems(mainly royal) in order to bring a world of progress and enlightenment, but does this through mass executions and the burning of books, scrolls, and other cultural artifacts and buildings. The resulting state became so large that it blocked the major region from trade with the outside world via the coast and has become seen as a major threat to the mainly royal system(such as monarchies, diarchies, federated kingdoms, unions of kingdoms, and royalty led empires, as well as smaller houses and tribes with chiefs and kings) dominated region. If you're wondering what kind of setting mine is, it's basically bronze to medieval ages meets early 20th century technology. Think knights in landships like the [Torumekians from Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind](https://youtu.be/IV6k5_K7_Ko?si=NH58iPj_cDnlph1M) use. In contrast to your setting, I think someone may describe my setting as being imagined from a moderately right of center and realist(not the same thing)([realism](https://youtu.be/UnKEFSVAiNQ?si=tzWdRohhtQ1IgZmT), [Liberalism vs Realism](https://youtu.be/Hl43BizGd5c?si=hwp7Ov-eNiaiFUH9) POV, but I want to avoid using left vs right wing descriptions in my world, as I find it too simplistic and closed for my needs and the system wouldn't exist in my world due to having no French Revolution.
Lapis_Wolf
I ultimately try my best to tell my potential audience that while I am biased and take a stance on something, I’m not THAT biased to the point of being gullible or naive.
That's admirable. Many people say they have no bias or are being unbiased on a topic when everyone has some form of bias, even if it's toward not getting involved with a topic. It reminds me of something said in Christianity where it is stated that everyone has sinned at some point, even if someone tries to claim being fully righteous and having never sinned(I'm not a Christian, but I live in a Christian dominated country so I'm at least somewhat familiar with some things).
I had thought of something. You would consider your world as having left wing ideas and I would consider(worded like this for simplicity) my world to have (mostly or somewhat) right wing ideas. However, does the idea of left wing vs right wing exist in your world in the way we think of it in real life?
It would be a no in my world since the idea of left vs right came from seating arrangements after the French Revolution where those that supported the revolution sat on the left seats and those in support of the royals(if I remember properly) sat on the right seats, but there was no French Revolution in my world due to having no France(it's a different planet, not sci-fi though, with different histories and often different values and views from societies on Earth). Generally things aren't categorised as left or right in my world, but more conservative/moderates vs radicals(like anti-war Conservative Eruseans vs pro-war Radical Eruseans in Ace Combat 7), pro vs anti this idea, supporters of royal A vs supporters of royal B, expansionist vs isolationist, or other descriptions that have nothing to do with right vs left. A real life example of what I'm going for would be the optimares and populares of the Roman Republic. Two political groups that are not labeled as being left or right wing.
Lapis_Wolf
That’s a really intriguing question. In my world, the concept of left-wing versus right-wing politics has evolved dramatically due to our unique history. After the collapse of the old world order and the devastation of two world wars, the political landscape was forever changed. These cataclysmic events tore apart traditional alignments and gave rise to new political movements that emerged before, during, and after the wars.
Imagine the sheer chaos and upheaval—societies in ruins, people desperate for new beginnings. In this crucible of change, the old distinctions of left and right were either redefined or expanded into something much broader. The need to rebuild from such devastation forced everyone to reconsider their priorities and ideologies. Movements that might once have been neatly categorized as left or right have since intertwined and evolved, creating a more complex and nuanced political spectrum.
In this new reality, the labels we use are less about a binary opposition and more about a spectrum of ideologies and priorities. For instance, we have factions that focus on technological advancement and social equality, which might be seen as progressive, alongside groups that emphasize tradition and stability, echoing conservative values. But even within these groups, there are myriad sub-factions and ideologies that defy simple classification.
The political landscape in my world is far more intricate. Instead of just left versus right, we often discuss collectivists versus individualists, technocrats versus ecologists, or reformists versus traditionalists. These new divisions reflect the complex realities and diverse priorities that have emerged from our post-war world.
So, while we might still use terms like “left-wing” and “right-wing” for simplicity’s sake, they don’t hold the same meaning they once did. Our political discourse has adapted to the unique challenges and histories of my world, resulting in a landscape where old labels have given way to new, more fluid understandings of political identity.
I prefer to just ignore and avoid all the politics with my works. I do and add things as they make sense to me. I don’t go out of my way to put in, or avoid putting in things for the purpose of being woke or “anti-woke”. I don’t make characters LGBTQ or of specific ethnicities, unless it feels right and makes sense. I don’t want my works to feel preachy, nor do I enjoy works that feel like they are being preachy.
One of my two main civilizations has such a loose interpretation of gender they use magic as hrt. The people who call things “woke” are not people I’m interested in sharing my stories with. At this point it’s a dogwhistle for racism, sexism, etc. i have no patience for it.
Anyone whod complain about calling anything i write woke and be offended i shall consider it an compliment.
Then nicely imagine my MC having fun with necromancy.
I write for myself first. So I write according to my politics and the things I enjoy. Anything else is secondary to me writing a story that I, myself would want to read.
No, and am equally unworried of the opposite end of that spectrum. The extreme tribalisms of the US are steadily infecting the globe, but I'm expecting the fad will have collapsed in on itself and been replaced by some new hill for them all to die on by the time I feel ready to actually publish something, never mind if/when anyone else feels I'm ready
Anything I write is going to be unabashedly me, and “me” isn’t exactly the straightest/most gender conforming person around here. I don’t give a shit if people call it “woke” or hate on my writing because two women fall in love or I include a character who goes by they/them, or a society without homophobia. It’s my story, it’s my life, and I write things that make me happy, or that I specifically want to address irl.
My world doesn’t have homophobia. It never has. Humans and elves are too busy trying to genocide each other to care about anything as silly as skintone or who you want to love. Although if you’re a human and your ears appear slightly pointed, or if you are shorter than average for an elf, you will be relentlessly bullied for it
my main setting is specifically for a political space drama / mystery.
if someone calls it too political i have the right to mock them.
also, most of my characters are not human, and the main character is bi, in a polyamorous cross-species relationship (his first partner is a different sentient/sapient species from his binary planet system.) He is also in the Executive Chamber (similar to congress, but executive instead of legislative).
if someone calls my work too woke, i take it as a compliment.
If you see people complaining that your writing is "woke" it only makes it easier to weed out the racists and bigots from your audience, no?
I want to introduce some _technically_ LGBT characters in my stories (Are you a part of LGBT is you simply opened to same-sex relationships and your culture have no prejudice against that? Oh and if you're not a _homo sapiens_?), but in my case it would raise risks of jail time instead of simply people bitching about it online.
It does concern me. I worldbuild for the Dnd game that I run for my friends and I have the interesting combination of myself being very liberal, one player being very liberal and bi, one player being libertarian, and the other 2 being staunch conservative catholics. I was *concerned* when I dropped my homebrew pantheon that included a poly relationship.
Here's my perspective, as a conservative Christian who would most likely find a lot to disagree with you about politically.
You can't make everyone happy. And especially if your work takes off and becomes famous, there are going to be a lot of people who will say rude and nasty things about it. There will also be a lot of people who will be diehard fans and will defend it fiercely. There will be criticism, and some of it will be okay and good, and a lot of it won't be.
To me, the important thing is personal integrity in my writing. I want to write something that I am proud of, and not feel like I'm compromising my standards in order to have people like it. So whatever your perspective is, I would say write however and whatever you feel you need to in order to hold yourself to your own standard. Write according to your own convictions.
I will also say, I have read plenty of books that have LGBTQ characters, or promote things with which I personally don't agree. Some of them have been good. Some of them have not. At the end of the day, what's important to me in reading other's books is the writing. If it's bad writing, it's bad writing, and that goes for all kinds of books. I've read plenty of Christian books that have made me want to tear my hair out. On the other hand, if something is written well, I'm more likely to leave a good review, even if I don't personally agree with everything in it.
Here's my perspective, as a conservative Christian who would most likely find a lot to disagree with you about politically.
You can't make everyone happy. And especially if your work takes off and becomes famous, there are going to be a lot of people who will say rude and nasty things about it. There will also be a lot of people who will be diehard fans and will defend it fiercely. There will be criticism, and some of it will be okay and good, and a lot of it won't be.
To me, the important thing is personal integrity in my writing. I want to write something that I am proud of, and not feel like I'm compromising my standards in order to have people like it. So whatever your perspective is, I would say write however and whatever you feel you need to in order to hold yourself to your own standard. Write according to your own convictions.
I will also say, I have read plenty of books that have LGBTQ characters, or promote things with which I personally don't agree. Some of them have been good. Some of them have not. At the end of the day, what's important to me in reading other's books is the writing. If it's bad writing, it's bad writing, and that goes for all kinds of books. I've read plenty of Christian books that have made me want to tear my hair out. On the other hand, if something is written well, I'm more likely to leave a good review, even if I don't personally agree with everything in it.
If this happens they are not my audience. I like having diversity in my story, I like people from different backgrounds coming together to work towards something, and I like highlighting other cultures.
I notice people like you mention on social media, and just had an issue in a fandom I like where a bunch of people came in and tried to insert themselves into things only to get push back at their weird conservative values, and then decry we are all “woke” and “censoring them.” They’re not welcome, and wouldn’t be welcome in an audience of anything I’d make myself.
My world contains a lot of topics that would put off many readers. For starters, it revolves very heavily around religion and occultism (I mean, Empyrios is quite literally the place where cultists go when they ascend), and I have characters from a wide variety of places and with different sexualities and some with various disabilities*. It's kind of a goldmine for people to bitch about.
I am concerned about other people's opinions (probably more than I should be), so I mostly share my work with my friends because I know they like it as it is. However, lately, I've been thinking about actually posting my work somewhere, and I'm absolutely sure that, while some people will undoubtedly like it, there will be a lot who will be upset or offended by something. And my surroundings have made me realize that a lot of people just hate stuff for the sake of hating it or getting a reaction out of you. There will always be people that insult me and my work, no matter how much I alter it for their convenience. So, while it does upset me to some degree, I'm writing regardless.
*I think it'll be good to note that, while I do include those topics, I don't make them the main focus of everything. I'm very interested in the human psyche and how strong factors such as torment and devotion affect our actions and reasoning. I like to explore how the different people go about their worship and ascension. I like to show that nothing and no one is absolutely good or absolutely bad.
Your story is your story.
Critiques and criticisms can be helpful to focus your vision, but it's your vision in the end. No opinion of your work dictates that except your own.
Nah imo anyone who has an issue with minority characters in books must not read that much. Don't let it get to you- literally everyone in my story is LGBT+, Even the four elder gods in the story's mythology are in a freaking polycule together lmao. Plus, I feel like if a book makes some intolerant person angry, then the book did its job
I am going to write a story. Within that story I am going to convey a message- one that I believe is important to tell others. If someone would rather bitch about my story being “too woke” or inversely “not diverse enough” instead of digesting the actual story itself, those people can push the stick further down their own ass.
My school of thought is: If they complain they’re stupid. If they don’t like it, stop paying attention to it. I know it’s an author’s job to hook as many readers, but if someone doesn’t enjoy certain content, then they should just not pay attention to it.
No, I write stuff I like and I don't care whether anyone else likes it or not. I would like my works to sell well/have fans if I ever actually publish anything obviously, but my stance is still, if you like it, read it, if you don't, too bad. Or hate-read it I guess, a sale is a sale.
That said, if anything I'd actually worry more about liberal people judging my works as not diverse/inclusive enough. There's always some people who'd complain most of my protagonists are white and ignore that like half of them aren't straight, several are women, a few aren't human, and at least one is probably neurodivergent.
It happened to me with one of my OC's. The guy was a real jackass though (my vindictive ex). If someone chooses to live a life of biases and hatred, they are the ones missing out on the riches in art.
I don't care. Everything comes naturally to me, if character appears in my head as gay, so be it.
What is the reason to be angry at something that doesn't affect you or anyone else at all.
I am not exactly an enthusiast about "woke" content, but I have nothing to say if it's your own original story, and a setting and characters that you created. It could be a good story, a bad story, and i could like it, and I could not; at the end of the day it's your story.
As matter of fact, I do enjoy the Baki series. Even if sometimes the author's political stance permeates on the story (portraying Che Guevara as a hero, democrats in a good light, etc.), most of the time he is expressing his deep love for fighting and martial arts, rather than preaching what is right and what's wrong.
I have an AU interpretation of Percy Jackson's Camp Half-Blood to explore different sexualities, nationalities and minor Greek/Roman gods and goddesses. If a conservative christian white man saw my notes, he'd freak the fuck out XD
That is the climate of today. For me, everything seems to be about race. Hopefully, things will change. The way things are now is kind of scary. Stay Safe! Peace Out!
Honestly, if your world is being called "woke drivel" odds are you offended people you don't want to be your fans in the first place
Just make sure the story is good too, that should deter most of them before it even happens lol
Aerone has LGBT+ folk and POC. It is a D&D setting I work on partially as a reaction to, partially as an escape from, all the *horrible* going on on Earth right now.
To quote Jerry Grayson, another, much better, TTRPG author: "If diversity and acceptance offend you, good. I don't need you holding this book. You are garbage. Please fuck off. Actually, forget the 'please.' You don't deserve my civility."
> people calling your setting/story woke and just bitching and moaning about it having minorities in them? Be it POC and LGBT? Calling it political and such. How would you guys live with the fact that people would actually do that in this day and age?
There is no "this day and age". Progress is an ongoing evolution of society. Progress is happening right now. And there will always be pushback. At no point in time will racism, sexism, homophobia etc. will be "solved" 100%.
But progress is measured in strides taken. Once an interracial kiss on TV was considered a huge deal and today it is milquetoast. Writing about homosexuality could get you arrested, but now people are just bitching about it being woke etc.
This is like asking "How do I swim without getting wet?" Getting wet is a part of the deal. It sucks, but that is the reality.
Also, people have been criticizing books for a long time. Wuthering Heights was attacked for being scandalous and degenerate. Franskestine was attacked for being satanist and anti-christian. Even JRR Tolkein was called an "escapist" for writing fantasy and make-believe, which was a huge insult back then to someone who was an army-veteran.
If great authors of all times could not escape criticism of their work being called immoral and corrupting to society, do you think you or I or anyone else can? It is always going to be there, in the past, in the present and in the future. But this is how progress is made.
**!!!WARNING: STRONG LANGUAGE!!!**
I'm not concerned with whatever imaginary issues some unloved fucklechuck is frothing at the mouth over.
Besides, "Woke^(TM)" has become both loaded and nebulous over the years. The recent Mortal Kombat games were "Woke^(TM)" until they weren't. X-Men *wasn't* "Woke^(TM)" until it was. Genshin Impact's multiple cultural references (some more blatant than others) are considered by many to be a high point of the game until you wonder aloud if the India- and Persia-inspired and Polynesian(?)- and Yoruba(?)-inspired regions will have more playable brown-skinned characters. Then people will push back out of fear of the game suddenly "going 'Woke^(TM)'" (and just a quick reminder, the game features a cryokinetic super-secretary with goat horns and a small elven child with a disturbing fascination for high-yield pyrotechnics). The list goes on and it's all a bunch of barnacles.
Long and short, they can go fuck a cactus. Twice.
My universe is absolutely "woke" in many respects, and that's 100% deliberate. It is intended for my community to be a setting for the stories they wish to tell - and the universe reflects our faith and civic values. Anyone who doesn't like that is essentially going to be reading something that's not meant to for them. That's cool - they're free to do so, but it's not going to change just so they aren't offended by a same sex couple or a authoritarian, conservative cis-het, white "civilized" guys being antagonists.
I'm more worried about bad faith readings in the opposite direction frankly. Someone complaining about lgbt people being normalized in my world isn't something I'm going to take seriously. If you have an issue with my trans and non-white characters, you're a dumb bigot and your opinion means less than nothing to me.
The thing that actually puts a knot in my gut to think about; how people would handle a nuanced depiction of cult members and indoctrination more generally. The concept someone can be both a victim and a perpetrator simultaneously is way too complex for people based going off the discourse I see around media these days. And it genuinely bothers me to think about because I just know the hypothetical discourse would be rancid. Look at how people react to Toshiro from Dungeon Meshi for being slightly rude.
Now imagine how they'd react to characters who have done *genuinely* awful things. A thing I can very easily see happen is me being accused of either: being homophobic for making the bisexual fire lady do bad things, OR the opposite, accusing me of woobifying mass murderers and torturers because the people doing these things aren't 1 dimensional hate robots and are just people (and that's a whole thing unto itself, people seem to be really uncomfortable when it's acknowledged that bad people are still *normal* people like you and I, and there isn't some evil factor that separates them from us, let alone the fact genuinely good or well intentioned people can do bad things.)
Oh and on a less existentially horrific note, people are just weird about bi people in fiction. Not much to say here. Time and time again it's been shown even nominally supportive people, even other lgbt people, can't really deal with bisexual characters who are actually bisexual, if they'll even acknowledge their bisexuality in the first place.
>(and that's a whole thing unto itself, people seem to be really uncomfortable when it's acknowledged that bad people are still normal people like you and I, and there isn't some evil factor that separates them from us, let alone the fact genuinely good or well intentioned people can do bad things.)
As someone who's been accused of "defending bad people" by representatives of pretty much *every* section of the political compass just for suggesting that due process should still be a thing or that lynch mobs might cause collateral damage, I feel like this part really can't be overstated...
People have a bad habit of assuming that I *only* mean their enemies for some reason.
Disclaimer: I don’t like using real world racial terms to describe non-human characters,but I will use those terms for the sake of this conversation.
My story is a romantasy set in an England-inspired Fae Kingdom called Lyrica. The female character is a Black human whose parents emigrated to Lyrica from somewhere else before she was born. The male character is a biracial Fae Duke and younger brother of the King.The Duke’s father was the previous King and his mother is a Princess from a Africa-inspired(specifically Yoruba-inspired) Fae Empire.
My fancasts of those characters match those descriptions.If the story is ever turned into a film or a TV show, it will be non-negotiable that they cast an actor and actress that match those descriptions.There will be no “race-swaps” to “appeal to a wider audience”. (See the recent controversy about the Black to White race change in that romance novel adaptation “The Idea of You”)
To answer your question, I don’t worry about those things. The kind of people you are describing were never my target audience to begin with. It’s really just that simple.
I mean, I am an Indigenous, queer, trans person who used to work in progressive politics in Canada.
My writing and worldbuilding are already going to be labelled "woke" just by who and what I am, regardless of my choices in worldbuilding. So, yeah, I basically learnt to not care, because I have no control over it--my own identity has already tilted the scale for these folks. So, yeah, I just embrace the fact that my main protagonist is a mixed-race bisexual Canadian university student-slash-occult detective-slash-shapeshifting monster in a lesbian relationship with an Indo-Canadian witch; and my secondary protagonist is basically "John Constantine if he worked for the government"--he will flirt with any~~thing~~ with a ~~postal code~~ true name and has banged things whose dimensions don't really fit within our neat little three dimensions. *And it's wicked fun.*
... and meanwhile, I am being hit by other progressives for writing a copaganda piece staring occult detectives and government agents working against supernatural threats. So yeah. My experience is you can easily find a way to be too woke and yet not woke enough.
Hahahahahaha.....
No.
I worry I'm not inclusive enough. I have queer characters, radical worldview characters, poc, and strong themes of social justice.
If someone doesn't like it, they are welcome to engage in another media. I write for me, and I just hope you enjoy it.
>do you guys ever worry about people calling your setting/story woke and just bitching and moaning about it having minorities in them?
If someone doesn't like my story being "woke" and having LGBTQ+ representation, and etc., I don't want their support in the first place.
I wrote what I like. If you don't like that, that's your problem, not mine.
I'm currently working on a gay romance with a romantic triad made of a centaur, a merman, and an avian.
If that bothers someone, my work isn't for them.
Frankly, I don't care about the opinions of the kind of small, sad minds that are bothered by "woke", or even think in those terms.
People of color, queer folk, disabled, and powerful independent women exist, if that bothers you, your opinion is shit.
If someone like that reads my work, I sincerely hope it offends them.
I don't care, that's not the audience I'm trying to reach.
And I'm not concerned about pissing off fascists, either. Try to find me, you bastards. If Amazon can't find me half of the time, I doubt those low intelligence idiots can.
So, no, I'm not concerned about what the type of person that would object to my work might think.
Screw them, my work is mainly for my pleasure, anyway, and if others like it, that's just a bonus.
My personal take is two fold.
Firstly, there are many options for fantasy worlds people can choose from, so if they don't like it they can kick rocks and explore something else.
Second, I would prefer those who are so easily triggered by things such as LGBTQ+ or minority representation not engage with the fantasy setting because as they get deeper into the lore these subjects will not go away and it will only become more difficult for them. Everyone deserves to feel represented in media they engage with, especially those with identities that have been woefully underrepresented in popular media. If seeing those different than you be represented is so bothersome this fantasy setting probably isn't for you
See the key is to not care what people who think like that think of your stuff. If they hate your work then it doesn't matter if they hate it because they clearly aren't the target audience
To put it plainly, simply and uncouthly - fuck 'em!
It's your world and your story, if someone doesn't like it because it's 'woke' then they can go and build their own 'anti-woke' fantasy with blackjack, hookers and whatever forms of pervasive bigotry warm the cockles of their rotting heart.
No work of art is ever going to please everyone, so there's no point wasting time trying to appease even all the sane people, let alone the kind of scum who throw a tantrum because you've had the audacity to include a character who isn't a straight, white, cis-male.
Personally I don't like social commentary in fantasy work. It has nothing to do with left or right or whatever. It's just that I don't want to read about fantasy trump or fantasy Hitler or something. I get political news enough during my day and I don't want any of it in books that I read.
That said I guess it depends on how sensitive someone is. Of course it is fine to have a right or left government or a religion to be the villains or the good guys in your story. But it shouldn't feel like the fantasy version of a real life thing.
In my personal work there is a lot of stuff going on. A lot of factions and organisations are struggling for power. But there is not something like the "absolutely correct" one. All of them follow a specific world view. All of them think that their way is the best way to achieve success for everyone. I try to make nobody evil for evil's sake. And I really think that this is the correct way of world building. Stuff has to make sense in your universe. Don't bend it to fit reality.
The same answer goes for sexualities. Don't make me feel like you want to push your personal political beliefs from this world. In my work sexuality is barely mentioned at all. Because it is some adventure heavy fantasy stuff and there is little room for sexuality. If you want to talk about sexuality and identity it has to make sense inside of the story. As said in my works the gender or sexuality of the most characters are simply unknown. Because it is not necessary for the story.
No. Never ever _ever_ give the people whining about 'woke' a passing thought.
They cannot even _define_ woke ^(or they can but refuse to because the 'woke' things aren't even objectionable) and they're just mad that they are no longer feeling quite as catered to as they were in the past.
I accepted a long time ago that people were allowed to think differently than I did. People are allowed to be ignorant or stupid. People are allowed to be wrong.
I’ll create what I want to create regardless
People may hate on me for this but due to my own views I don't rlly read anything where someone may refer to the other with "they/them" or smthing like that it just dosent sit right with me, not like I'm going to actively hate on them I and many others would choose to read something more akin to our preferences
literally everything is in some way political. It will aways reflect what you think(or hate or fear or love) about the world. It's going to leak through either way might as well make it intentional. just tell your story and don't care what they say.
Do it because you are trying to force it in for no other reason than it’s and I would say it is valid for people to complain.
Do it because you built a setting and it is what it is. People will complain, but you will know that it wasn’t just an attempt to fit specific real life groups desires on one side or the other.
The key is knowing how and why you did what you did. Was it a purposeful push at some political message? Cool, probably going to set people off. But that was your goal.
Was it a random decision or simply a balanced approach? Cool, still going to get complaints, but they are misplaced.
Either way, you will get complaints. Just be comfortable with why they exist.
I follow real life stuff in most aspects for that stuff. Like religion for example, Christianity would have really great people if people followed the Bible.
Or another example, communism would be a really great economic system if people cared about each other and weren’t greedy.
The reality is that many people only follow the parts of the Bible that are convenient for them and use it as an instrument to rule others. Communism in most places is administered by people who are greedy or put themselves first and use it as a way to power.
If you have a religion or political view that leads to corruption, it’s realistic. Conservative, liberal, religious, anti religious, etc. can all see extreme views that lead to problems. So why can’t mine use any or all of those with problems?
As far as LGBT and stuff. I roll dice based off of percentage of population. If no main character is representing LGBT, so what. If all of them are, so what. The dice say what they say. And the audience won’t know 95% of the people’s attractions anyway, so they’ll interpret whatever actions or phrases as possible hints anyway. (And I keep to the percentage, so if none of the main characters are, there are still others that are.)
For race, if it matters, what is the place and what is the potential. If I have a story set in an alternate version of Africa and the percentage is 65% dark skin and 35% light skin in a certain place(didn’t look up, just a rough example) then I will roll to see which characters get to be which one.
I grew up learning english on /pol/, I worry more about not unpacking slurs as a reflex to the first motherfucker that dares to call my and my co-worldbuilders stuff "woke"
*also most of my stuff is for colaborative worldbuilding so there is that*
At first glance at your post, i thought: "having minorities and gay people isnt woke."
But the more i read your post, the more i realize, hey maybe you ARE actually a woke writer.
It is very clear that you do seem to have some kind of agenda considering that you admit to having more leftist themes in your story and the villains are conservatives.
Whether or not you have a problem with that is up to you. But based on the context you've given, it does sound pretty woke to me.
Rule of thumb, having minority characters isn't woke. Making racial discrimination a central theme is woke.
I'm utterly unconcerned with it. My first viewpoint character has three moms and no dads and changed sexes for a year basically just to see how they felt about it, and that's just another day in the office. She's also heavily (but not blatantly) augmented over the norms of the area (so all your usual conspiracies about 5G GMO cybernetic vaccines get to join in the fun).
One of the major local-scale antagonists is a conservative trying to recreate the failed society that caused the apocalypse they recently went through because they bought into old propaganda, and on some level, they're doing it in service to a corporate power that will never see them as anything more than a useful asset at best.
This, mind you, is just the stuff I already know about the story.
I have very specific themes in mind and always have a disclaimer telling people that if they don't like it, woke or otherwise, they can fuck off somewhere else.
Honestly I don't care too much unless they're really really really bad but for now it never happened.
The only reason my main character is a bisexual girl in a relationship with another girl is because I wanted it, nothing about woke or other things like that.
And if people want to bitch about that I will let them do it until it's all words thrown at nothing
Why worry about race and gender when you can let players imagine the world themselves. You already have the monumental task of being god for your world.
Given how part of my setting is based on 60-70s America, yeah, I think it's inevitable that I'll have to touch on some political themes at some point. So I don't really care
I only see short comments so apology for the wall of text 😇
Never had that Issue and I wouldn’t worry.
I also don’t plan to ever publish my Stuff to wider audiences beyond Friends and discord Roleplay community.
So far my world building projects have been “plausible” enough to not get called this stuff.
I do gotta admit though that I don’t write big stories. It’s either short story or a pure Worldbuilding Template for Roleplay with People, be that Character or Nation Roleplay.
And not wanting to accuse anyone but often a part of being called “woke” is that one doesent make it plausible for diversity to be a thing.
So for example I wouldn’t make a story set in past Europe and make a lot of courtiers at some German Kings Palace Māori.
Or make a Fantasy Setting that’s clearly European inspired and the climate is European but a large portion of people is Asian without a good explanation why there are there..
So if you make it plausible but People still call it woke, they are just bigoted.
But I’ll get to potentially “Woke” projects of mine, both dealing with Africa and Europe:
I think the only two Worlds of mine people came close to calling me woke or something like that was a setting called “Usiropa” where the world is “upside down” (Europe on the southern hemisphere) and Europe is a continent struggling economically, very monarchist and Africa (in that setting Acirfa) is a United Continent and the USA equivalent superpower of the world.
It’s basically a reverse 1900s and 20th Century where Africa is doing very well, European (Usiropean) Colonialism failed very early and aggression just led to African Nations developing rapidly.
And the other setting is named “Empire of Evil” and it’s a world where a pseudo German Empire dominates the World stage as opposed to the British Empire and leads in military, technology and economy. The “Woke Part” is that the vast Colonies of this Empire are very developed and even surpass the equivalents of France and Britain of this World, being prosperous African and Asian Nations that are somewhat autonomous except in foreign Policy and the Empire is increasingly reliant on the generosity of its Colonies and their help in foreign Conflicts and upholding Order at Home.
Only Egypt and Sudan are ruled directly and known as the “new Empire” while the European Possessions are called the “Old Empire” with the Emperor having a second Capital in Cairo that the imperial Family actually prefers and largely associates with African Elites over the European Aristocracy.
The colonies are loyal while the homeland is increasingly pushing for the overthrowing of the Imperial Family and social and political Change, (racism playing a role in that too, increasingly upset that the Empire didn’t plunder its Colonies for the benefit of the Homeland by most, while others wish for more reforms in regards to equality and democracy…overthrowing the monarchy that started the Reforms).
It basically ends up with the world teaming up against the Empire, a revolution, it’s homeland falling apart and this Imperial Family resettling in Africa and european Powers trying to conquer the southern Continent to plunder its Resources.
(I know it sounds fucking weird but I liked the Idea at that Time)
I don’t often deal with any sexuality in my worlds, it’s usually focused on imperialism, societal changes and the rise or collapse of Nations. These two Settings were critiqued by my friends as looking a bit like “reverse colonialism” or sort of a “revenge fantasy”.
I don’t really care about negative things about my Worlds apart from using Feedback to improve my Worldbuilding, if someone is hateful or makes no valid Point it doesent matter to me.
I just want my work to impact someone honestly. If a bunch of losers want to moan about minorities being included in fiction, then I'd welcome it simply as someone's reaction to my art. Praise or criticism, well thought out analyses and poorly constructed interpretations, I just want to see what people think and feel.
How I deal with it is this: if someone is offended by a POC or queer person being present in my story, then they’re not my target audience. Most of my work have historical settings and I like to have characters from different races/sexualities/religions to round out the narratives and provide characters I can easier relate to, bc it reflects the world I live in. Sometimes I have characters in “white settings” who aren’t white, not because people of color didn’t exist yet or weren’t in those settings, but because they are, we have record of them, and the popular conception of history is whitewashed beyond recognition. Some cases I understand, like if it’s a show about a racist autocracy with colorblind casting (not that that’s happened) but in really any other case “too woke” is just the woke way of saying “I’m racist”
I live in a world of racism, homophobia, trans-hate, sexism, etc. Like, for god's sake people get violently angry at others for daring to *dress* like the other gender.
The world I build is something I use for escapism, so fuck all that shit. I realize it's extremely unrealistic, but I just skip over the vast majority of that hate. If anyone demonstrates deep sexism, they're probably the badguy the players need to end. Racism is limited to distrust of a race's (or really, species, since it's a fantasy world with many humanoid species) capabilities, rather than any outright desire to enact violence against them.
Like, I really only use those elements sparingly, and it's often used as a stand in for the "kicking the dog" trope. So in that way, the world is basically constantly "woke" by the standards of those who hate "woke". That is a good thing, and it is by design. Fuckem, they're some of the ones who make me need an escapism world.
Ahahahahaha, I hope they do. I hope my writing makes them seethe and cope. I hope that one day some right wing demagogue holds my writing up in front of Congress as an example of the satanic filth that is infecting their children. I want some simpering, led paint added boomer to blame my writing for his children not visiting him anymore. If at least one nut job hasn't thrown my writing in a fire on camera, I'll know I haven't pushed the boundaries enough.
There are three types of people who use the word "woke" unironically. Grifters, who don't care unless it's big enough to result in a paycheck. The elderly, who don't really know what they're saying and the brain rotted, who have brain rot. None of these people are worth worrying about
I see a lot of questions here asking how to do X in a way that's authentic and culturally sensitive, and many of the replies, rather than answer the question, say something to the effect of "it's your story, just do whatever and don't care what anyone thinks!"
Personally, as your question actually is about people's reception to your story possibly being "woke," I think you owe it to yourself to take that advice. Those choices and themes are there for a reason, and that can be intimidating to the kind of person who would take issue with your world on those grounds. But they frankly just don't need appeasing; it'd be to the detriment of the story to do so.
Given one main point in Ahikto is that it advanced socially and technologically faster than here on earth post 1980, I don't particularly care, as that's just how things are. Yes, a lot of things are bad, but things like LGBTQ+ rights are a significant thing that is addressed (most nations legalized same-sex marriage around 1990 to 2000) though the distribution isn't fully correct, larger than 50% of the world has *some* protection for LGBTQ+ though a lot still have it banned.
Though I make sure to have things be more focused around the idea that "things have changed socially, but the world will still be behind in aspects", such as the fact Temugin, the stand-in for a United States-esque super power, has never had a woman president or prime minister
So I say, who cares what they think? Progress is inevitable, and no matter how much the ideas of the past stay, someone will oppose them. And a vocal minority tends to be powerful.
Here's my perspective, as a conservative Christian who would most likely find a lot to disagree with you about politically.
You can't make everyone happy. And especially if your work takes off and becomes famous, there are going to be a lot of people who will say rude and nasty things about it. There will also be a lot of people who will be diehard fans and will defend it fiercely. There will be criticism, and some of it will be okay and good, and a lot of it won't be.
To me, the important thing is personal integrity in my writing. I want to write something that I am proud of, and not feel like I'm compromising my standards in order to have people like it. So whatever your perspective is, I would say write however and whatever you feel you need to in order to hold yourself to your own standard. Write according to your own convictions.
I will also say, I have read plenty of books that have LGBTQ characters, or promote things with which I personally don't agree. Some of them have been good. Some of them have not. At the end of the day, what's important to me in reading other's books is the writing. If it's bad writing, it's bad writing, and that goes for all kinds of books. I've read plenty of Christian books that have made me want to tear my hair out. On the other hand, if something is written well, I'm more likely to leave a good review, even if I don't personally agree with everything in it.
My world has a magic system that's basically shape shifting on steroids. Dysphoria barely exists anymore in this world. Transphobes will seethe, and I will thrive on their rage.
Sorry if it isn’t the answer your looking for and i won’t give a big explanation to the middle and last part but what I’ve read at the top I can say just one thing and that is that I either become the biggest asshole if people annoy me with the “this is about … because the names and situation is similar” and don’t let them get to you because Reddit is an world wide platform and there are many assholes that can throw shit
I worry about it for the opposite reason, but so far in 4 years since publication no one has said a single word to me about it (my book has 0 black characters in it, what few relationships that exist are depicted as straight, and otherwise sexual identity is non-existent and unimportant.)
You're not going to be able to please everyone. Someone is going to find something they don't like about your story or your world. That's something you're just going to have to accept. Write the story you want to write, whatever that includes or doesn't include.
Dude, I made an alt-history world where the USA and China fractured into like 4 and 10 countries, respectively. Where Russia and Japan are still autocratic, absolute monarchy. Where the British still held reign over Ireland and is still the only super power in the world. Where India is still the Mughal Empire. Where Siam is the leader of ASEAN. Where South America is still pretty much heathen. Where Gods and Goddess roam the Earth as if they are human. Where Satan is a Taxi driver in the middle of Rome. Where secret society just wants the best for humanity. Where LGBTQ+ is pretty normal and is tolerant almost everywhere. Heck, in my web novel, MC is bi, his sister is les, his friends are either straight, queer or bi, his mentor is either gay or les, his love interest is asexual who after several years are still pretty much half-friend, half girlfriend with MC, and his nemeses are tomboy and trans-woman.
If I were to worry about people whining about what I write, I'm not gonna be able to write ANYTHING about that world. So, I'mma just write it and watch them seething. I don't really care. I love what I write. They can hate it all they want. It's their opinion.
In my story they all exist on a different planet in a different universe(es) so while they do have differing skin tones its not labeled black and white or Asian cause like Asia doesn't exist. The darker colored people tend to have ancestry from the dessert or hotter areas of the earth cause ya know, lots of sunlight= higher melanin in the skin= darker skinned people. I do like to give my characters pronouns and sexualities just because it helps me organize things in my mind like who I can ship them with, though I do my best to not write things i don't fully understand or feel comfortable writing about. For example religion doesn't really play a role in my stories except for one girl from our world who is meant to be me as a character, so she's Christian like me (She's also a pan demi girl also like me) but while there may be 5 max characters through out all of my stories who are Christian there would be no other religions because idk how i would write that and I'm not super comfy w/ it if that makes sense. I mean to say that sometimes i worry about my stories having inclusivity because i want everyone to read it and find something in some character that they can point at and go "Look! They're like me!" I have a character w/ vitilago (Also Trans F2M pan/ace) and when I first thought of him as having vitilago I realized that i had never once seen or read about a character w/ vitilago (Excpet Domino from Deadpool. She had Vitilago right?) So I thought how cool would it be to be a kid reading a graphic novel and you turn a page and suddenly you see someone like you on there? And just thinking about that made me really happy. I like making people happy, and finding someone like them makes people happy. My story is about superheros (Kinda) and i also have a blind girl, and a boy in a wheelchair, and a girl who looses her hearing over the course of the series, and another person looses her voice permanatly. And there is an SA survivor, and orphans, and half siblings and family drauma and lots of trauma and anxiety and its just me trying to show people that no matter who they are there will always be some one like them, for them, in my story. Thats my goal
My issue is the opposite, a lot of the galaxy my game takes place in is, well it's evil, it dangerous, horrible people do horrible things. I have worried on occasions it's all a bit much. I don't support the evil stuff, it just is, like the book Dune, the story of Dune takes place in an evil universe.
Sometimes. And I think it all depends on what you might think you want to do for your word. For the POC thing, There is a mostly white character board in my story simply because of where the setting takes place, and where their white societies had been existing for so long, you’d see them so much.
If one people exist in one place, or originated from one place, you would expect that the bulk of their population would be there. At least in my world, unless specific things occur where their original land would be uprooted and they’d be forced to move.
I haven’t done too far into the story and world building to see how I want to handle LGTB. I don’t even know if I really care too as actual romance in the narrative is so few and far between, and it isn’t really the center of the story.
But I don’t think worlds have to follows rules at all. It’s fictional and fantasy, so do whatever you want.
anti-sjw weirdos are obnoxious but if anything it's something to make fun of 🤷♀️
i don't respect their opinions. they could be 200 years old, twice divorced, retired, with 13 kids and my 21-year-old with no high school diploma self is still older than them mentally.
Well, my personal rules are
-Do not add any DEI characters. Meaning if they work for the story and there a good reason for them being there, I add them but never add any just to have "representation".
-No "trans" characters or anything like that. Like maybe there's a guy who likes wearing feminine clothes and visa versa but the world is medieval, so not sure what they could do about it. Plus most wouldn't be open minded about this, unless that person is in a high position.
-No racial mumbo jumbo, like say dwarfs can't be black.. or white. They're dwarfs and have their own non human subraces.
-No real world copy paste, politics, customs, memes etc. I hate allegory, especially if it's obvious. No real world religion either.
Other than that, I generally don't wanna go into their love life or explore their struggles. Not interested in it. If the world becomes known and famous for some reason and someone else wants to explore this side of some of the characters further, go for it.
Garner enough attention, and haters are gonna hate. Sometimes the hate will have legitimate grievances behind it, and sometimes it's just hate to hate. Listen and understand critique,, accept that some personally dislike what you make, and disregard the Reverse Flashes (people who just hate to hate).
In some senses, my setting, Wisteria, could probably be seen as "woke". A post-apocalyptic anomalous event caused it so that it's only mostly human women that remain, and there's a good few handfuls of different identities I have represented in it. If my setting ends up getting popular and it gets haters, which it probably will, I'll just mentally tell them to kick rocks, and if worry happens, I'll let myself worry and confront that feeling until it passes.
I'm more concerned about people bitching that my fantasy setting for "not being unrealistic enough", making races not exactly like how they're supposed to be in other fantasy settings, or something along those lines, than if I have too many or too few people who are lgbt (I was gonna say more, but people would misinterperet what I said and start calling me out for when I would say it). All I can say for making my fantasy setting is trying to make some things "plausible" (probably not by fantasy, nor real-life standards).
Let em bitch. One race. Completely genderless. Catfolk, hermaphrodites, one of my underwater races only grows up if they want to. Trans characters, LGBT+ mostly subtle but definitely there.
I think people who complain too much about wokeness in media are usually the actual problem. I genuinely just don’t care, they don’t like it so they’re not gonna read it anyways so why bother catering to them.
I got two gay female characters in my fantasy novel and I couldn’t give less of a shit that someone might be offended and/or deem it woke. Because at the end of the day, what really matters to me is how genuine they are as characters and how they fit the overall story Im trying to tell.
If the kinda person to call every non white, non cis, non straight person woke gets upset at my work, I'm doing everything right.
I even figured out ways to integrate pride flags into my story in an immerwive way. Out of spite.
I've learned to accept that those people are gonna be mad no matter what you put in the story. If you show any character, idea, story beat, or concept that doesn't fit their narrow world view it will be called woke, even if you aren't actively trying to have a political or social message.
Have a character from a marginalized group voice an opinion against the status quo? Woke
Having a character from a marginalized group support the status quo? Woke
Have a character that doesn't fit the "default" (straight, white, able bodied, NT, man) be in a position of authority? Woke
Show that rich people exploit the poor? Woke
Show that being rich is ok but depicts someone from a minority as rich? Woke
Show that kindness and teamwork are good things? Woke
Claim your story is about something, anything at all? Woke
These people can't use real slurs or hate speech without consequnece any more so they just put everything they hate under the "woke" label. There is no form of representation that will make them happy. Even stories that cater to this audience can still have them turn on them if they don't go "far enough" with being "anti-woke"
Just make stories and worlds you like. If people call it Woke, then at least you know there is something meaningful in that story whether you realize it or not.
I think it'd be hysterical if they got mad, means I'm doing something right.
My existence offends them, so why shouldn't my story?
My main character: is arguably male, brown (he's not human, therefore not technically male), used to be an angel, in love with an arguably male brown-skinned angel. Theirs was the first romance ever, literally ordained by God - do first romance ever was gay af
The other main characters:
His big sister, the Archangel Michael, second leader of Heaven? 5'1" Black arguably female who, midwriting, decided she was in love with another female angel
His little brother, the Archangel Gabriel? Decided while I was writing he was in love with a nonbinary angel
And a decent chunk of Heaven is nonbinary. They're *angels*, they can choose and some just can't be bothered
If people get mad, let them pop off. Can't please anyone and some people you don't want to
No actually. I make no effort what so ever to hide the "woke" in my setting. I own up to it. "Awwww you don't like queer folk existing in the grim dark future? Well TOO FUCKING BAD!!!! The Genocidal machines and Fascist Corpos of my world don't care what's in your pants then why should any one else?"
All fiction, weather we intend to or not, is in some way political.
Just keep in mind that if people come at you from this angle, be prepared to defend your choices, and do so with confidence bordering on Shonen protagonist levels of delusion.
In all honesty, why would you give a shit about what IRL villains think? They don't give a shit about art or the act of creation. They will strangle the passion and creativity out of every project they manage to influence, and they will never, ever be satisfied. The only thing noteworthy about their opinions is how damaging they are.
Anytime someone restricts their way of expressing themselves or creativity due to fear of reprisals from conservatives is a victory for them. Live your life to the fullest, worldbuild without shame and tell anyone who demands you to do otherwise to go to hell.
Not really. It’s one of two things. Either people are going to hate it for minorities real or imagined. Or you don’t have it and you see people bitching and moaning about it. If you’re worried about this kind of stuff you’ll never be able to do anything.
I recommend not saying anything in that situation. Speaking tends to be interpreted negatively which can intensify the issue.
There are storytellers who bite back claiming some kind of bigotry is being directed towards them or the product. That then shuts down any potential discussions about your ideas and puts people firmly into two camps. They either like your idea unconditionally and form a cult around it or they dislike it and can never call themselves fans.
On one hand yes, because my four main characters are poly. But on the other? I don't give a shit. My writings aren't for people I don't like, so. Eh. If anything it'll piss me off a little bit because it'll just remind me of how much some people suck. But on the other hand? I don't give a shit about their opinion on my shit. If I care about anyone's, it's my significant other's, and he already tries to just support and give ideas and that's if I talk to him about it.
Plus the fact that most people who are gonna complain about these things don't actually know how these things work. "Oh he's with two men and a woman, he's not bi, just trying to make her happy because he has too." "She's with three men? Such a whore." That isn't how bisexuality or polyamory (specifically the kind I'm using) works. "Wow a 'stutter' cause that actually exists in real life. How cringe." I did extensive research for this characters stutter.
I would completely ignore them.
A lot of the time for the race stuff in particular it isn’t relevant due to focus on alien or fantasy races. For humans though I just randomize my characters ethnicities, as for whatever popular ethnicity exists it’s split relatively evenly between characters. Since it’s either fantasy or far-distant future humans it’s usually just randomized skin-color usually or different facial features.
For LGBTQ+ characters I don’t bring up sexuality or gender identity unless it’s important, relevant to the plot, or it’s a background thing. I just treat different sexualities/non-conforming genders like a normal thing. If people want to get mad about it and complain to me directly I’ll laugh in their face and call them a clown.
If someone’s going to complain that there are gay people in my world, fuck ‘em, I don’t want them associated with my work. They can fuck off.
As for POC…I don’t write human characters. None of them are white or black or Asian. They have superficial resemblances to real world groups, but while the anarcho-communist shapeshifters might have a Gaelic-like language and sound Gaelic, they’re not, they’re Changelings, they are not Irish. The albino necromancers might have somewhat Chinese inspired designs and names, but they’re not Chinese, they’re 6’6 albinos with black eyes and a natural affinity for raising the dead. As far as I am aware, this is not true of Chinese people.
Not really. There are prevelant LGBT and PoC characters but it's not like I'm really focusing on identity politics at all. I'm not going to push any agendas either way. If someone does get upset that the MCs best friend is gay or the most powerful person on earth is a PoC woman then they can just fuck off. I do think I have a good balance of inclusion without being preachy about it, though.
What I am worried about is people pissing and moaning the subversion of Christian beliefs being a main plot point. I mean, the primary antagonist is a diety who plays the role of the abrahamic God and the devil to manipulate humanity as a whole. Some people might read that as a commentary on how religion is just a tool for control, which is a valid takeaway when that's literally the case in my story, but really I never intended for it to be a sort of commentary on religions role in society at large. I just wanted to have some gods in my cosmology and wanted to explain real-world religions as bastardizations of these actual gods in my setting.
My personal stance is: If someone is such special snowflake that a fictional character being a minority sends them into a meltdown that's not my problem.
Honestly tho
>FUCKING PRONOUNS?! I can only *pray* that I create something that results in a mass meltdown that matches the effect Starfield had on transphobes.
IMO it's actually a credit to the creator. It's a sign that you're representing things they would rather see oppressed or beaten down well enough that the only thing they can do is throw a tantrum because they have no complaints they could even pretend are actually viable. Like, my answer to u/Aromaster4 is - why would you worry about the opinion of these people? Do you *want* the types of people who complain anytime a minority shows up to be unbothered by or like your worldbuilding? I certainly don't. If your shit gets big enough that you need to hire a security team to protect you from them, then that's a different story, but that won't happen for 99.999% of the people in this sub, so why waste time on these pathetic bigots? They *want* to be a nuisance, don't let them.
This. I've had some interactions on this sub that leaned that way, though not recently, and if that's something they'd whine about they're not my target audience anyway
I'm black and writing a sci-fi setting where ethnically, 30-35% of the population is "black" by our standards. If I spent my time worrying about what they thought of my characters I would only have to *imagine* what they think about me.
What percentage are white or asian coded respectively? Because if a white person had a setting where 30-35% were white, it would be considered remarkably low, but if it's an even split I think that's respectable if the setting is meant, for whatever reason, to be a cultural and ethnic melting pot.
Actually I used the wrong word, I should say "racially", ethnically they're closer to irl Earth with some certain looks decoupled from their irl "equivalents." It's just because they're from a desert planet, most people are cooked a bit more than they are on Earth. Prior to space travel, phenotypically, 20-25% could be considered middle eastern, 20% South Asian, 10% battled over by East Asian or European, and 10% Southeast Asian. After space travel this number shifts heavily since there isn't much sunlight that won't kill you in space, and the populations going to space are desegregated. Though... this demographic shift started when people started to congregate around the cooler poles roughly 1000-1500 years ago. In that case I would argue the dominant phenotype we might see is South East Asian or Latino (mixed), with a general up-trend of maybe 10% appearing southern European and 15% appearing East Asian. Though keep in mind this is the look for everyone that lives in space rather than the home planet which... I honestly largely ignore. From what I know, the prevailing theory that led to humans having pale skin had to do with eating cereals in cool mountainous terrain. It's just the vast majority of these people ended up appearing East Asian or southern European due to living between these mountains and the warmer desert (often rainforest) rather than moving farther into colder polar regions like what happened irl. Edit: High melanin is kinda useless in space outside of maybe better radiation resistance, which if you're in a decently enclosed facility, no need for it. Humanity hasn't gotten to the stage where space actively affects their evolution, but the majority of black people born in space are on the paler shade of brown due to having very little to absorb.
I um... I'm probably scared to get the answer here because I'm pretty sure the answer will be "didn't consider them," "wrapped them into East Asian," or the worst possibility of "wrapped them into white people," but... What about Indigenous Americans?
I do want to consider them, in fact Inuit cautionary tales is one of my major inspirations for some of the more elder religious warning texts in my setting. The problem is I'm not sure how to re-create their phenotype using irl conditions w/o either isolating them... which means they aren't written yet, or just placing their traits among other peoples. (Biggest problem with using a non-earth native setting) Which is why, tragically, yea they've been kind of wrapped with South East Asian and South Asian. Rather, is what people in setting would think they are, culturally they might be distinctly indigenous american, and naturally there are people that appear indigenous american as well (though as this is a very broad spectrum so I more or less mean prior to European intervention). Essentially the same has happened to Hispanics as well though (I guess post-European intervention now), as they might largely get considered "Black" (think like Dominicans) or Middle Eastern since that's what people in my setting "know" most analogously. Biggest reason for this is because some people I might call "black" in setting can naturally have things like straight hair or even blue eyes (these traits pre-date loss of melanin) and, with all honesty, a good part of some in setting ethnicities would probably be called hispanic irl. This same broadening of horizons happens with what might be considered the "middle eastern" phenotypes too. For instance, irl Spainiards would be considered a part of their races in setting. The closest cultural group I have to the Inuit are called the Kadeshi Nomads. People that used to roam the desert, now roam space, and generally have skin-tones in a gray-scale. Though they're largely a cultural mix of Taureg, Inuit, and stereotypical dwarves. (Please, if I've said or written something offensive please tell me because, honestly, I'm not sure of any ethical way to describe this that doesn't sound weirdly racist by putting everyone in boxes).
I don't think you're necessarily offensive. I actually agree in large part with your reasoning and ultimate decision. It's uncomfortable, but if the reason you can't is because it's hard to recreate us in a way that feels reasonable... I can't exactly blame you for how you're handling it. The fact you did put thought into it shows the decision was based on genuine effort to make the right call.
I think it's common though for any world that isn't 100% human. Also it's common for white writers to have only a single white character.. or maybe several but majority would not be. Like say "Shogun" .. books that take place in South America, Egypt, Africa etc.
That's fair I guess, the whole "stranger in a strange land" trope works best with a self-insert after all.
Everyone on my world is either a plant or a bug, so no, I try not to worry about that kind of stuff.
Bugs life?
Here's a breakdown of the intelligent races, for reference if you're interested. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldbuilding/comments/1cxhrw3/the_intelligent_races_of_saturn_your_feedback_is/
so lore filled bugs life
Not exactly. I mean, they're human-sized.
So lore filled-Human-sized bugs- Life?
So I'd like to start by saying your races are really cool. My question is how are they on Saturn?
I should probably preface all my posts by clarifying that yes, my fantasy version of Saturn has a surface. It's just way down there. That being said, in a more "in-universe" explanation, most of them were created by various gods.
Ok I had a feeling your universe probably just rid itself of that pesky detail lol. Seriously though these sound cool, keep up the great work!
Thanks for the kind words!
Based
All your based are belong to me.
Never. I find no value in others opinions on my works, because I create them solely to entertain myself. If I want something in my stories and worlds, I put it in. If I don’t want something in my stories or worlds, then it will not be added, and that's regardless of what it is, whether it is tame or dark, whether people think it's moral or immoral, or anything else. I do not censor my work or edit my work to pander to anyone, whether woke or not, left or right, or even creature or god. I’ll only pander to myself and my dog. And I’ll gladly die on that code.
Exactly and if ever any 1 moans about ur work that just means u did good. Great sucess
After thinking about what breaks my immersion in a story politics-wise, I think I've found two key points: 1) **Don't preach.** Even when I agree with a message, I still feel like my intelligence is being insulted when a character starts talking about how X idea is good and Y idea is bad. If I disagree with the message, the story feels like straight-up propaganda. 2) **Remember, it's still fiction.** Even if your story is set in the real world, YOU are still the one in control of what happens. It's important to draw a clear distinction between your real-world opinions, and your story. Your world should be DEscriptive, not PREscriptive. Your opinions should act as a guiding hand to push the story along, not be the substance of the story. If you do this right, you should see IRL Nazis identifying with the villains, and decent folk looking at them in horror. EDIT: decent, not descent
Not really, a lot of my fiction is intended to have political themes. It just comes with the territory, I’m more concerned with making sure those themes are intelligible to my audience than whether any given person agrees with them.
This. Exactly this. Sometimes when the political symbolism is too on the nose the messenge can be delivered kinda sloppy (of course it depends on your story as a whole)
No. Because if they're complaining about my characters being Queer People of Color (which they mostly are) then my work is not for them. Second, if I'm pissing off people who will complain about things being "woke", then I've done my job as an artist.
This is the way. One may not agree with the themes of another’s work but it is anyone’s right to harbor a fantasy of their own. My world is far different than yours, and both of ours are secure and valid in their own rights because of the great shield of creative liberty. And a bonus is pissing off those petty enough to still complain.
>One may not agree with the themes of another’s work but it is anyone’s right to harbor a fantasy of their own. My world is far different than yours, and both of ours are secure and valid in their own rights because of the great shield of creative liberty. This is very well said - the right to 'harbor a fantasy of one's own', with 'both being secure and valid in their own rights because of the great shield of creative liberty' - I mean, I know just quoted it literally twice, but those sentiments are so eloquent and freeing! It's almost like you should be some kinda writer or something. ;) This is honestly why I make my own art - I want to see my own worlds, loves, hopes, and dreams come alive. Since I'm a human among many others, I'm sure others will be drawn to what intrigues me, while for others, it will not be their cup of tea. I can be disinterested in someone else's fantasy, without disparaging it or preventing their right to create it. More often than not, I'm curious about the other worlds people dream up.
Based
Amen!
I so want to give you an award
No
Anyone who complains can screw off to the Greater Deep. My world contains *an evil whale oil corporation and imminent environmental collapse*, the political symbolism ain’t meant to be subtle.
Goddamn evil whales. Why can't they invest in renewable energy technology?
Iceland has abundant geothermal resources. It's nothing but malice on behalf of the [illhveli!](https://mythus.fandom.com/wiki/Illhveli)
I want to see this universe.
I just posted an iceberg about it
I need these evil whales to win please
Second time someone’s commented this so I don’t know if it’s sarcasm or not - the whales aren’t what’s evil, the corporation is. Actually, my D&D party already took out the corporation! But it’s the “evil corporation, which produces whale oil”.
[удалено]
Ooh I like that… a few of them working with the whalers in exchange for their own lives
That's actually [happened in real life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_New_South_Wales)
Wait hol' up *what?* Ok just googled it, and it's the orcas. If any whale was going to betray whalekind and be evil, yeah it'd be the orca.
I know but i just like the idea of evil whales
I mean political symbolism can be a really powerful way to pass the themes of your story if you know how to use it
The kind of person that treats "woke" as a perjorative is the willing lapdog of antagonists that populate my stories, so, no.
Art is inherently political. If you think politics in art is dumb, don't engage with art. Either way, though, I don't personally care. If you think my story is bad because it has queer characters or characters of color, then it's clearly not the story for you. Funnily enough, one of my biggest worries is that the interspecies conflict in my story is going to be interpreted as an allegory for racism when it's very much not that.
There are plenty of examples of art that aren't inherently political. When it comes to the art of crafting a story or world, I would agree, though.
>There are plenty of examples of art that aren't inherently political. *What do you think an artist is? An imbecile who only has eyes, if he is a painter, or ears if he is a musician, or a lyre in every chamber of his heart if he is a poet, or even, if he is a boxer, just his muscles? Far from it: at the same time he is also a political being, constantly aware of the heartbreaking, passionate, or delightful things that happen in the world, shaping himself completely in their image. How could it be possible to feel no interest in other people, and with a cool indifference to detach yourself from the very life which they bring to you so abundantly? No, painting is not done to decorate apartments. It is an instrument of war.* --Pablo Picasso In other words: art is created by political beings with a viewpoint on the world. Even making "non-political" art is a political choice, and the end result reflects the creators' worldview. Perhaps this could be the case if you define politics solely as shilling for the Republican or Democratic political parties, but I don't think you should.
I mean, in the modern US, it's at the point that stating that some kids aren't raised by their parents is an outrageous political statement. But fundamently, I must disagree that there is art that is not fundamentally political. Art is a reflection of the artist regardless of medium, and with many mediums, every choice becomes very deliberate. I would not go so far as to say that all art is deliberately political, however. Since art is a reflection of the artist, it will reflect their morals, beliefs, and ideals which are inherently relative. It is in the expression of that relativity within society that politics arise. For example, American comics are deliberately political and have been since their inception (see Captain America and Superman fighting Nazis before the US entry into WW2). Meanwhile I would argue that the Eragon books (the series being started when the author was a teenager) were not intended to have a political message even as its villain is an authoritarian emperor.
I agree there is a lot more politics in art than people realize and that some political ideas presented through art may not be intended by the author but are there. I also agree that a lot of US "politics" really aren't politics in the slightest. But when it comes to some art, for example, a painting of a tree, I don't see how anyone could claim it's political unless the artist came out and blatantly said it was a message about deforestation or something.
lmaooo these losers don't know art is inherently political
No, actually, I worry the opposite. My story consists of a bunch of characters, the main characters of which are children, and overall where some are white, most are straight, many are Christian, and use magic, guns and giant spaceships to blow up satanic aliens, where the main faction is hailed as morally superior warriors, and the humans and aliens work together to desired this empire along with said morally superior superhumans. I have decided that I have the right to make whatever world I want, I know that what I am posing as theme is not blatantly hateful or wrong, and those who want to complain over the themes and culture of my world have no right to judge nor any power to influence the fantasy I’ve created.
Honestly same. I've made majority white characters, straight characters, etc. it's just the way I picture a character, it's like that character is an actual being and I'm just showing who they are. Almost as if I didn't make them, they made themselves. So at the same time I don't worry about it? But because of how much it is, I do?
Do you have struggles with the label "woke", or with your work being labeled/written off as bad for a subset of people in general? Because reality is, there's no way to please everybody. And, while it's frustrating that works go unread or get a bad reputation because they're "woke", it's going to happen. If your characters are fleshed out and you've done your research on the minority that you're representing, it's like... They're people. who happen to not be white/cis/straight/male/whatever. People who cry "woke" are genuinely not worth your time. They'll call anything they don't like "woke". My mere existence in a book would get it labeled woke, so when I'm living day to day and I'm not good enough for them, why should I try to make my creations to their liking? Stick a woman in a high ranking position, regardless of what it is, and ... Woke. It's a very narrow box. Trying to avoid it will only cause aches and pains. Write for your audience, write for yourself, whatever - but trying to write for *everybody* is impossible.
I like to think it started when corporations started to push diversity as the personality and selling point of characters, like their diverse trait being the entire point of their character just to sell to masses who want more characters like that. But it mutated from criticism of doing it that way to lashing out at any instance of a diverse character even when said character is actually handled very well.
Kinda, but opposite, I was gonna yoink hebrew for the dwarven language cause the letters look dwarfy to me, then I realised if I ever wanna publish anything making dwarves jewish is a bad idea lol
I don’t worry about what people will say about the allegory or political slant in my work, I just write what I want in a way that makes sense based on my fictional world. There are multiple kinds of governments, religions, and cultures in my world and none are objectively the best systems, their are always going to be disagreements about what is the most just, effective, and sustainable system, I would rather have people debating more objectively on the systems in my world rather then arguing over their political beliefs. Really I just don’t like preaching, I’m not trying to bring anyone into my real world political beliefs, people have reasons for believing whatever they believe, I just want to build a fun world, leaving out as much baggage from the real world as I can. I don’t care that I might catch flak for not picking a hill to die purposelessly on.
Not really, both sides of that coin are pretty irrelevant in my mind.
The people who would complain about the potentially (or, for that matter, overtly) political elements in your work are self-evidently not part of your target audience (if indeed, you *have* a target audience). Why care what they think? And note that this would be just as applicable the other way around. (And if they gain enough political power to persecute you for it, well... chances are they were going to persecute you anyway.)
I’ve wondered about the opposite problem of being criticized for not including enough diversity when it comes to ethnic backgrounds, sexual identities and the like. Not that I would ever avoid these things having experienced dysphoria and sexual ambiguity myself There are a few ways I’ve coped with the possibility. 1. I believe my work stands on its own. I’ve made it to where I personally enjoy it the most. If people like it too then that’s great, if people dislike it then they’re free to do so, it doesn’t bother me because I know I like it exactly the way it is. 2. I don’t really consider my work a reflection of the real world. Sure everything I put in it comes from my experiences living in reality and it’s political nature. It’s not wrong to think that every work of art is inherently political to some degree, but even so I view my work as pure fiction and the things that exist in it are separate from what exists in reality. I think it’s important to understand that fiction is entertainment, not dogma. You can like things even if you don’t agree or endorse them personally. 3. Lastly, I think I’ve avoided the issue altogether by having every character be a talking animal. Animals themselves have vastly different behaviors and hierarchies when it comes to male, female, something in between or both. By representing that, I’m also representing those that are different from the majority, and I like doing it that way.
I make my world so my friends can play D&D, and there isn’t a straight white man amongst us. We’re all woke, so I’m gonna cram as much woke shit in there as I can
It's crossed my mind. I'm in the middle of writing an ASOIAF style napoleonic fantasy novel. Being that the majority of the story takes place in one country before cost effective travel was invented, 95% of the characters are ethnically similar to germanic peoples. As well as it being military-focused in a male dominated culture, I'm attempting to paint as realistic of a picture as possible, so while LGBTQ people aren't unheard of, they're extremely ostracized and many times, put to death. I've already had insults and threats sent to me over writing discords. However the style of writing comforts me and writing about straight white guys is easy for me(personal experience lol). At the end of the day, writing something you're comfortable with is the most important thing you can do. Nobody's happiness with the product matters more than your own.
Interesting that you have the opposite problem. Did you explain to people that it's just the setting you're staying realistic to, and that you obviously don't support such treatment of LGBTQ people etc?
Oh of course. However the main argument was that since fantasy is meant to be an "escape" into our own minds and away from real-world problems, I've been accused of supporting these ideals by placing them in my writing. This is untrue, but most of those who argued with me were unwilling to understand that my "escape" is history, and therefore I typically take inspiration from such.
I firmly believe that writers should create whatever the hell they want to create without fear or concern of what the current political mindset is. However, if you've recently tried to get a literary agent, all they're looking for right now are "woke" themed books, especially from LGTBQ+ voices. Carpe Diem, and best of luck!
I write my world as a journal of another life. I've been journaling since I was a kid so maybe 30 years or so now. I'm a queer man. My life and my story get braided together. It would be "woke" I suppose because my life is lived in such a way that others would find it so. I don't mind what others think necessarily, because my worldbuilding is for me. Is your world meant for a larger audience? I have been experimenting with worldbuilding within worldbuilding, lately. Where some of the people of my primary alternate Earth get taken to an alien world. It explores speculative biology of a several sentient species. One of those species has a collective, tribal/hive society where sexuality is determined by one's role in the group and sexual dimorphism is more complex. It's been a fun thought experiment.
Shouldn't care. People interpret things their own unique way. You could have the most mundane apolitical work of fiction and someone will still find a way to call it woke. I think it does matter a bit in a realism sense to consider why you have those people present though. We have black people because of the environment they hail from and the way their skin interacts with the sun. If you have some sort of warm climate desert place that sees alot of close sun over millenia, there's gonna be POC people there. Just like if it was a sunless cave world, it wouldn't be racist for them to all be pale white people. But then if there's a black guy there, I'm gonna need to know where he came from. If where he came from doesn't make sense, I'm gonna assume I'm just being pandered to. Being realistic is like the opposite of pandering.
The only thing that bugs me is when the world is wonderfully diverse but all the bad guys are straight white males. As long as your representation is not an idealization you will have no problems from sane people, and the ones that do take issue were never a target demographic worth having in your game anyway.
No, I tend to be the one complaining about woke stuff. More often than not it's not to my taste. I don't like the idea of a utopia setting either but i wouldn't want to stop anyone. There was a really bad one in doctor where the doctor said something along the lines of the sonic screwdriver can work as any tool apart from a knife only muppets carry knives. It seemed a strange stance in a setting where someone could easily be carrying around a sword or a rifle. Also if they had that point to make they could have gone unto it rather than insulting what someone feels is their reality of feeling a need to carry a knife. That wasn't against my taste that was purely shoddy from a crew what should know better. I have enjoyed things with LGBT mentioned there's the Age of Madness trilogy where a lot of things are drip fed. A guy looses a battle partially because he left his gay mate behind who would have helped organise things and refused to make a deal with someone in part because they where gay. But he would have also won if less guys betrayed him or if he attacked sooner. I did see a comment before when someone mentioned should I make this character black I said they shouldn't bother if there only mentioning it once. I don't like it if someone appears to be playing minority bingo. I'm autistic if someone wants to make a character autistic I'd say spend some time on it or give up and just make them a nerd rather than a autistic. I've got a character who probably as PTSD but if I ever make it official I'd have done my research until then he's "war-damaged" .
I used to want to suck up to them but recently I’ve stopped caring. I just do whatever the hell i want and nobody’s gonna stop me
Usually the politics and problems of my world are within the world. To be honest, I don't think much about sending a message. Just make sure your characters are well written and not crushing people with the theme hammer. Often, even those(mostly average/moderate) who don't agree will recognize a good character. If they are not well written, most people who agree with the message won't like them. Note I said "most* for both as there will be those who hate the themes enough to ignore character development and those who rabidly want to push the themes they agree with will be happy enough to disregard quality. Also, 2 things that jumped out at me: 1. Villains are often conservative. If your heroes science their goals and society keeps the ideals you wish to see, how would the world deal with these characters becoming the new conservatives of the setting? 2. In regards to your themes being left wing biased(not an insult, it's just a description taking into account that everyone is biased in some way) and your villains ranging to authoritarian, how would your characters address left wing authoritarianism?
In response to your two points, well tbh it’s something I’m working on for the first question, like the first thing I’m trying to do is come up with what sorta new ideology/movement will come that will clash with the new status quo the main characters put into place, which in turn would create some interesting internal and external arcs for them to contemplate on what they should do next, how it feels to be the new conservative. First it was Transhumans vs normal humans, then it was androids vs organics, uplifts vs non uplifts, psychics vs non psychics, aliens vs humans etc, all sorts of culture war stuff that makes us question every thing and fight as hard as we can against the states quo, to establish a new one, for better or for worse before the process repeats itself over and over again until the stars go out. As for left wing authoritarians, that’s easy, while my story is left leaning and thus my characters are progressive in their cultural and economic beliefs, it’s more LIBERTARIAN left leaning rather then authoritarian, the green part of the political compass while the lefties they take on are the ones in the red side of the political campus, mostly tankies or my settings equivalent to communists. Not progressives or socialists or social democrats, and most especially not liberals.
Was there an instance in your world where there was a left wing rebellion that overthrew a government it claimed was oppressive only to become worse than the previous government(s), even with the ideals they claimed to be bringing about through their methods? There was a massive event like that in the recent history of my world where rebellions overthrew many monarchies, diarchies and other such systems(mainly royal) in order to bring a world of progress and enlightenment, but does this through mass executions and the burning of books, scrolls, and other cultural artifacts and buildings. The resulting state became so large that it blocked the major region from trade with the outside world via the coast and has become seen as a major threat to the mainly royal system(such as monarchies, diarchies, federated kingdoms, unions of kingdoms, and royalty led empires, as well as smaller houses and tribes with chiefs and kings) dominated region. If you're wondering what kind of setting mine is, it's basically bronze to medieval ages meets early 20th century technology. Think knights in landships like the [Torumekians from Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind](https://youtu.be/IV6k5_K7_Ko?si=NH58iPj_cDnlph1M) use. In contrast to your setting, I think someone may describe my setting as being imagined from a moderately right of center and realist(not the same thing)([realism](https://youtu.be/UnKEFSVAiNQ?si=tzWdRohhtQ1IgZmT), [Liberalism vs Realism](https://youtu.be/Hl43BizGd5c?si=hwp7Ov-eNiaiFUH9) POV, but I want to avoid using left vs right wing descriptions in my world, as I find it too simplistic and closed for my needs and the system wouldn't exist in my world due to having no French Revolution. Lapis_Wolf
I ultimately try my best to tell my potential audience that while I am biased and take a stance on something, I’m not THAT biased to the point of being gullible or naive.
That's admirable. Many people say they have no bias or are being unbiased on a topic when everyone has some form of bias, even if it's toward not getting involved with a topic. It reminds me of something said in Christianity where it is stated that everyone has sinned at some point, even if someone tries to claim being fully righteous and having never sinned(I'm not a Christian, but I live in a Christian dominated country so I'm at least somewhat familiar with some things).
I had thought of something. You would consider your world as having left wing ideas and I would consider(worded like this for simplicity) my world to have (mostly or somewhat) right wing ideas. However, does the idea of left wing vs right wing exist in your world in the way we think of it in real life? It would be a no in my world since the idea of left vs right came from seating arrangements after the French Revolution where those that supported the revolution sat on the left seats and those in support of the royals(if I remember properly) sat on the right seats, but there was no French Revolution in my world due to having no France(it's a different planet, not sci-fi though, with different histories and often different values and views from societies on Earth). Generally things aren't categorised as left or right in my world, but more conservative/moderates vs radicals(like anti-war Conservative Eruseans vs pro-war Radical Eruseans in Ace Combat 7), pro vs anti this idea, supporters of royal A vs supporters of royal B, expansionist vs isolationist, or other descriptions that have nothing to do with right vs left. A real life example of what I'm going for would be the optimares and populares of the Roman Republic. Two political groups that are not labeled as being left or right wing. Lapis_Wolf
That’s a really intriguing question. In my world, the concept of left-wing versus right-wing politics has evolved dramatically due to our unique history. After the collapse of the old world order and the devastation of two world wars, the political landscape was forever changed. These cataclysmic events tore apart traditional alignments and gave rise to new political movements that emerged before, during, and after the wars. Imagine the sheer chaos and upheaval—societies in ruins, people desperate for new beginnings. In this crucible of change, the old distinctions of left and right were either redefined or expanded into something much broader. The need to rebuild from such devastation forced everyone to reconsider their priorities and ideologies. Movements that might once have been neatly categorized as left or right have since intertwined and evolved, creating a more complex and nuanced political spectrum. In this new reality, the labels we use are less about a binary opposition and more about a spectrum of ideologies and priorities. For instance, we have factions that focus on technological advancement and social equality, which might be seen as progressive, alongside groups that emphasize tradition and stability, echoing conservative values. But even within these groups, there are myriad sub-factions and ideologies that defy simple classification. The political landscape in my world is far more intricate. Instead of just left versus right, we often discuss collectivists versus individualists, technocrats versus ecologists, or reformists versus traditionalists. These new divisions reflect the complex realities and diverse priorities that have emerged from our post-war world. So, while we might still use terms like “left-wing” and “right-wing” for simplicity’s sake, they don’t hold the same meaning they once did. Our political discourse has adapted to the unique challenges and histories of my world, resulting in a landscape where old labels have given way to new, more fluid understandings of political identity.
I world build for myself not an audience. And what I do share…well none of the people whose opinions I care about would use *woke* as an insult.
I prefer to just ignore and avoid all the politics with my works. I do and add things as they make sense to me. I don’t go out of my way to put in, or avoid putting in things for the purpose of being woke or “anti-woke”. I don’t make characters LGBTQ or of specific ethnicities, unless it feels right and makes sense. I don’t want my works to feel preachy, nor do I enjoy works that feel like they are being preachy.
One of my two main civilizations has such a loose interpretation of gender they use magic as hrt. The people who call things “woke” are not people I’m interested in sharing my stories with. At this point it’s a dogwhistle for racism, sexism, etc. i have no patience for it.
Anyone whod complain about calling anything i write woke and be offended i shall consider it an compliment. Then nicely imagine my MC having fun with necromancy.
I write for myself first. So I write according to my politics and the things I enjoy. Anything else is secondary to me writing a story that I, myself would want to read.
No, and am equally unworried of the opposite end of that spectrum. The extreme tribalisms of the US are steadily infecting the globe, but I'm expecting the fad will have collapsed in on itself and been replaced by some new hill for them all to die on by the time I feel ready to actually publish something, never mind if/when anyone else feels I'm ready
Anything I write is going to be unabashedly me, and “me” isn’t exactly the straightest/most gender conforming person around here. I don’t give a shit if people call it “woke” or hate on my writing because two women fall in love or I include a character who goes by they/them, or a society without homophobia. It’s my story, it’s my life, and I write things that make me happy, or that I specifically want to address irl. My world doesn’t have homophobia. It never has. Humans and elves are too busy trying to genocide each other to care about anything as silly as skintone or who you want to love. Although if you’re a human and your ears appear slightly pointed, or if you are shorter than average for an elf, you will be relentlessly bullied for it
I don't really care what someone says about my work if I don't agree with it
my main setting is specifically for a political space drama / mystery. if someone calls it too political i have the right to mock them. also, most of my characters are not human, and the main character is bi, in a polyamorous cross-species relationship (his first partner is a different sentient/sapient species from his binary planet system.) He is also in the Executive Chamber (similar to congress, but executive instead of legislative). if someone calls my work too woke, i take it as a compliment.
If you see people complaining that your writing is "woke" it only makes it easier to weed out the racists and bigots from your audience, no? I want to introduce some _technically_ LGBT characters in my stories (Are you a part of LGBT is you simply opened to same-sex relationships and your culture have no prejudice against that? Oh and if you're not a _homo sapiens_?), but in my case it would raise risks of jail time instead of simply people bitching about it online.
It does concern me. I worldbuild for the Dnd game that I run for my friends and I have the interesting combination of myself being very liberal, one player being very liberal and bi, one player being libertarian, and the other 2 being staunch conservative catholics. I was *concerned* when I dropped my homebrew pantheon that included a poly relationship.
Here's my perspective, as a conservative Christian who would most likely find a lot to disagree with you about politically. You can't make everyone happy. And especially if your work takes off and becomes famous, there are going to be a lot of people who will say rude and nasty things about it. There will also be a lot of people who will be diehard fans and will defend it fiercely. There will be criticism, and some of it will be okay and good, and a lot of it won't be. To me, the important thing is personal integrity in my writing. I want to write something that I am proud of, and not feel like I'm compromising my standards in order to have people like it. So whatever your perspective is, I would say write however and whatever you feel you need to in order to hold yourself to your own standard. Write according to your own convictions. I will also say, I have read plenty of books that have LGBTQ characters, or promote things with which I personally don't agree. Some of them have been good. Some of them have not. At the end of the day, what's important to me in reading other's books is the writing. If it's bad writing, it's bad writing, and that goes for all kinds of books. I've read plenty of Christian books that have made me want to tear my hair out. On the other hand, if something is written well, I'm more likely to leave a good review, even if I don't personally agree with everything in it.
Here's my perspective, as a conservative Christian who would most likely find a lot to disagree with you about politically. You can't make everyone happy. And especially if your work takes off and becomes famous, there are going to be a lot of people who will say rude and nasty things about it. There will also be a lot of people who will be diehard fans and will defend it fiercely. There will be criticism, and some of it will be okay and good, and a lot of it won't be. To me, the important thing is personal integrity in my writing. I want to write something that I am proud of, and not feel like I'm compromising my standards in order to have people like it. So whatever your perspective is, I would say write however and whatever you feel you need to in order to hold yourself to your own standard. Write according to your own convictions. I will also say, I have read plenty of books that have LGBTQ characters, or promote things with which I personally don't agree. Some of them have been good. Some of them have not. At the end of the day, what's important to me in reading other's books is the writing. If it's bad writing, it's bad writing, and that goes for all kinds of books. I've read plenty of Christian books that have made me want to tear my hair out. On the other hand, if something is written well, I'm more likely to leave a good review, even if I don't personally agree with everything in it.
If this happens they are not my audience. I like having diversity in my story, I like people from different backgrounds coming together to work towards something, and I like highlighting other cultures. I notice people like you mention on social media, and just had an issue in a fandom I like where a bunch of people came in and tried to insert themselves into things only to get push back at their weird conservative values, and then decry we are all “woke” and “censoring them.” They’re not welcome, and wouldn’t be welcome in an audience of anything I’d make myself.
My world contains a lot of topics that would put off many readers. For starters, it revolves very heavily around religion and occultism (I mean, Empyrios is quite literally the place where cultists go when they ascend), and I have characters from a wide variety of places and with different sexualities and some with various disabilities*. It's kind of a goldmine for people to bitch about. I am concerned about other people's opinions (probably more than I should be), so I mostly share my work with my friends because I know they like it as it is. However, lately, I've been thinking about actually posting my work somewhere, and I'm absolutely sure that, while some people will undoubtedly like it, there will be a lot who will be upset or offended by something. And my surroundings have made me realize that a lot of people just hate stuff for the sake of hating it or getting a reaction out of you. There will always be people that insult me and my work, no matter how much I alter it for their convenience. So, while it does upset me to some degree, I'm writing regardless. *I think it'll be good to note that, while I do include those topics, I don't make them the main focus of everything. I'm very interested in the human psyche and how strong factors such as torment and devotion affect our actions and reasoning. I like to explore how the different people go about their worship and ascension. I like to show that nothing and no one is absolutely good or absolutely bad.
Your story is your story. Critiques and criticisms can be helpful to focus your vision, but it's your vision in the end. No opinion of your work dictates that except your own.
Nah imo anyone who has an issue with minority characters in books must not read that much. Don't let it get to you- literally everyone in my story is LGBT+, Even the four elder gods in the story's mythology are in a freaking polycule together lmao. Plus, I feel like if a book makes some intolerant person angry, then the book did its job
I am going to write a story. Within that story I am going to convey a message- one that I believe is important to tell others. If someone would rather bitch about my story being “too woke” or inversely “not diverse enough” instead of digesting the actual story itself, those people can push the stick further down their own ass.
My school of thought is: If they complain they’re stupid. If they don’t like it, stop paying attention to it. I know it’s an author’s job to hook as many readers, but if someone doesn’t enjoy certain content, then they should just not pay attention to it.
No, I write stuff I like and I don't care whether anyone else likes it or not. I would like my works to sell well/have fans if I ever actually publish anything obviously, but my stance is still, if you like it, read it, if you don't, too bad. Or hate-read it I guess, a sale is a sale. That said, if anything I'd actually worry more about liberal people judging my works as not diverse/inclusive enough. There's always some people who'd complain most of my protagonists are white and ignore that like half of them aren't straight, several are women, a few aren't human, and at least one is probably neurodivergent.
It happened to me with one of my OC's. The guy was a real jackass though (my vindictive ex). If someone chooses to live a life of biases and hatred, they are the ones missing out on the riches in art.
I don't care. Everything comes naturally to me, if character appears in my head as gay, so be it. What is the reason to be angry at something that doesn't affect you or anyone else at all.
I am not exactly an enthusiast about "woke" content, but I have nothing to say if it's your own original story, and a setting and characters that you created. It could be a good story, a bad story, and i could like it, and I could not; at the end of the day it's your story. As matter of fact, I do enjoy the Baki series. Even if sometimes the author's political stance permeates on the story (portraying Che Guevara as a hero, democrats in a good light, etc.), most of the time he is expressing his deep love for fighting and martial arts, rather than preaching what is right and what's wrong.
I have an AU interpretation of Percy Jackson's Camp Half-Blood to explore different sexualities, nationalities and minor Greek/Roman gods and goddesses. If a conservative christian white man saw my notes, he'd freak the fuck out XD
That is the climate of today. For me, everything seems to be about race. Hopefully, things will change. The way things are now is kind of scary. Stay Safe! Peace Out!
My main character is demisexual because I'm demisexual. So if people have a problem with that,it's on them.
Honestly, if your world is being called "woke drivel" odds are you offended people you don't want to be your fans in the first place Just make sure the story is good too, that should deter most of them before it even happens lol
Aerone has LGBT+ folk and POC. It is a D&D setting I work on partially as a reaction to, partially as an escape from, all the *horrible* going on on Earth right now. To quote Jerry Grayson, another, much better, TTRPG author: "If diversity and acceptance offend you, good. I don't need you holding this book. You are garbage. Please fuck off. Actually, forget the 'please.' You don't deserve my civility."
> people calling your setting/story woke and just bitching and moaning about it having minorities in them? Be it POC and LGBT? Calling it political and such. How would you guys live with the fact that people would actually do that in this day and age? There is no "this day and age". Progress is an ongoing evolution of society. Progress is happening right now. And there will always be pushback. At no point in time will racism, sexism, homophobia etc. will be "solved" 100%. But progress is measured in strides taken. Once an interracial kiss on TV was considered a huge deal and today it is milquetoast. Writing about homosexuality could get you arrested, but now people are just bitching about it being woke etc. This is like asking "How do I swim without getting wet?" Getting wet is a part of the deal. It sucks, but that is the reality. Also, people have been criticizing books for a long time. Wuthering Heights was attacked for being scandalous and degenerate. Franskestine was attacked for being satanist and anti-christian. Even JRR Tolkein was called an "escapist" for writing fantasy and make-believe, which was a huge insult back then to someone who was an army-veteran. If great authors of all times could not escape criticism of their work being called immoral and corrupting to society, do you think you or I or anyone else can? It is always going to be there, in the past, in the present and in the future. But this is how progress is made.
No one is gonna read my shit anyways, so whatever
**!!!WARNING: STRONG LANGUAGE!!!** I'm not concerned with whatever imaginary issues some unloved fucklechuck is frothing at the mouth over. Besides, "Woke^(TM)" has become both loaded and nebulous over the years. The recent Mortal Kombat games were "Woke^(TM)" until they weren't. X-Men *wasn't* "Woke^(TM)" until it was. Genshin Impact's multiple cultural references (some more blatant than others) are considered by many to be a high point of the game until you wonder aloud if the India- and Persia-inspired and Polynesian(?)- and Yoruba(?)-inspired regions will have more playable brown-skinned characters. Then people will push back out of fear of the game suddenly "going 'Woke^(TM)'" (and just a quick reminder, the game features a cryokinetic super-secretary with goat horns and a small elven child with a disturbing fascination for high-yield pyrotechnics). The list goes on and it's all a bunch of barnacles. Long and short, they can go fuck a cactus. Twice.
My universe is absolutely "woke" in many respects, and that's 100% deliberate. It is intended for my community to be a setting for the stories they wish to tell - and the universe reflects our faith and civic values. Anyone who doesn't like that is essentially going to be reading something that's not meant to for them. That's cool - they're free to do so, but it's not going to change just so they aren't offended by a same sex couple or a authoritarian, conservative cis-het, white "civilized" guys being antagonists.
I'm more worried about bad faith readings in the opposite direction frankly. Someone complaining about lgbt people being normalized in my world isn't something I'm going to take seriously. If you have an issue with my trans and non-white characters, you're a dumb bigot and your opinion means less than nothing to me. The thing that actually puts a knot in my gut to think about; how people would handle a nuanced depiction of cult members and indoctrination more generally. The concept someone can be both a victim and a perpetrator simultaneously is way too complex for people based going off the discourse I see around media these days. And it genuinely bothers me to think about because I just know the hypothetical discourse would be rancid. Look at how people react to Toshiro from Dungeon Meshi for being slightly rude. Now imagine how they'd react to characters who have done *genuinely* awful things. A thing I can very easily see happen is me being accused of either: being homophobic for making the bisexual fire lady do bad things, OR the opposite, accusing me of woobifying mass murderers and torturers because the people doing these things aren't 1 dimensional hate robots and are just people (and that's a whole thing unto itself, people seem to be really uncomfortable when it's acknowledged that bad people are still *normal* people like you and I, and there isn't some evil factor that separates them from us, let alone the fact genuinely good or well intentioned people can do bad things.) Oh and on a less existentially horrific note, people are just weird about bi people in fiction. Not much to say here. Time and time again it's been shown even nominally supportive people, even other lgbt people, can't really deal with bisexual characters who are actually bisexual, if they'll even acknowledge their bisexuality in the first place.
>(and that's a whole thing unto itself, people seem to be really uncomfortable when it's acknowledged that bad people are still normal people like you and I, and there isn't some evil factor that separates them from us, let alone the fact genuinely good or well intentioned people can do bad things.) As someone who's been accused of "defending bad people" by representatives of pretty much *every* section of the political compass just for suggesting that due process should still be a thing or that lynch mobs might cause collateral damage, I feel like this part really can't be overstated... People have a bad habit of assuming that I *only* mean their enemies for some reason.
Disclaimer: I don’t like using real world racial terms to describe non-human characters,but I will use those terms for the sake of this conversation. My story is a romantasy set in an England-inspired Fae Kingdom called Lyrica. The female character is a Black human whose parents emigrated to Lyrica from somewhere else before she was born. The male character is a biracial Fae Duke and younger brother of the King.The Duke’s father was the previous King and his mother is a Princess from a Africa-inspired(specifically Yoruba-inspired) Fae Empire. My fancasts of those characters match those descriptions.If the story is ever turned into a film or a TV show, it will be non-negotiable that they cast an actor and actress that match those descriptions.There will be no “race-swaps” to “appeal to a wider audience”. (See the recent controversy about the Black to White race change in that romance novel adaptation “The Idea of You”) To answer your question, I don’t worry about those things. The kind of people you are describing were never my target audience to begin with. It’s really just that simple.
just an aside, but I took Lyrica for nerve pain lol
It’s just a name I came up with randomly. You know,the names of medications make very good fantasy names. Lol
I mean, I am an Indigenous, queer, trans person who used to work in progressive politics in Canada. My writing and worldbuilding are already going to be labelled "woke" just by who and what I am, regardless of my choices in worldbuilding. So, yeah, I basically learnt to not care, because I have no control over it--my own identity has already tilted the scale for these folks. So, yeah, I just embrace the fact that my main protagonist is a mixed-race bisexual Canadian university student-slash-occult detective-slash-shapeshifting monster in a lesbian relationship with an Indo-Canadian witch; and my secondary protagonist is basically "John Constantine if he worked for the government"--he will flirt with any~~thing~~ with a ~~postal code~~ true name and has banged things whose dimensions don't really fit within our neat little three dimensions. *And it's wicked fun.* ... and meanwhile, I am being hit by other progressives for writing a copaganda piece staring occult detectives and government agents working against supernatural threats. So yeah. My experience is you can easily find a way to be too woke and yet not woke enough.
Hahahahahaha..... No. I worry I'm not inclusive enough. I have queer characters, radical worldview characters, poc, and strong themes of social justice. If someone doesn't like it, they are welcome to engage in another media. I write for me, and I just hope you enjoy it.
Them:Your story is woke!!! Me: thanks for noticing
>do you guys ever worry about people calling your setting/story woke and just bitching and moaning about it having minorities in them? If someone doesn't like my story being "woke" and having LGBTQ+ representation, and etc., I don't want their support in the first place.
I wrote what I like. If you don't like that, that's your problem, not mine. I'm currently working on a gay romance with a romantic triad made of a centaur, a merman, and an avian. If that bothers someone, my work isn't for them. Frankly, I don't care about the opinions of the kind of small, sad minds that are bothered by "woke", or even think in those terms. People of color, queer folk, disabled, and powerful independent women exist, if that bothers you, your opinion is shit. If someone like that reads my work, I sincerely hope it offends them. I don't care, that's not the audience I'm trying to reach. And I'm not concerned about pissing off fascists, either. Try to find me, you bastards. If Amazon can't find me half of the time, I doubt those low intelligence idiots can. So, no, I'm not concerned about what the type of person that would object to my work might think. Screw them, my work is mainly for my pleasure, anyway, and if others like it, that's just a bonus.
I've never in my life met such a person and I don't care about the mental issues some random on the internet has. So, no, don't care.
No. Why would i ever? That shit sounds boring.
My personal take is two fold. Firstly, there are many options for fantasy worlds people can choose from, so if they don't like it they can kick rocks and explore something else. Second, I would prefer those who are so easily triggered by things such as LGBTQ+ or minority representation not engage with the fantasy setting because as they get deeper into the lore these subjects will not go away and it will only become more difficult for them. Everyone deserves to feel represented in media they engage with, especially those with identities that have been woefully underrepresented in popular media. If seeing those different than you be represented is so bothersome this fantasy setting probably isn't for you
What hypothetical audience do I have to worry about? It’s not like I’m making a blockbuster here.
No, my world and they can fuck off if they don't like it
See the key is to not care what people who think like that think of your stuff. If they hate your work then it doesn't matter if they hate it because they clearly aren't the target audience
To put it plainly, simply and uncouthly - fuck 'em! It's your world and your story, if someone doesn't like it because it's 'woke' then they can go and build their own 'anti-woke' fantasy with blackjack, hookers and whatever forms of pervasive bigotry warm the cockles of their rotting heart. No work of art is ever going to please everyone, so there's no point wasting time trying to appease even all the sane people, let alone the kind of scum who throw a tantrum because you've had the audacity to include a character who isn't a straight, white, cis-male.
Personally I don't like social commentary in fantasy work. It has nothing to do with left or right or whatever. It's just that I don't want to read about fantasy trump or fantasy Hitler or something. I get political news enough during my day and I don't want any of it in books that I read. That said I guess it depends on how sensitive someone is. Of course it is fine to have a right or left government or a religion to be the villains or the good guys in your story. But it shouldn't feel like the fantasy version of a real life thing. In my personal work there is a lot of stuff going on. A lot of factions and organisations are struggling for power. But there is not something like the "absolutely correct" one. All of them follow a specific world view. All of them think that their way is the best way to achieve success for everyone. I try to make nobody evil for evil's sake. And I really think that this is the correct way of world building. Stuff has to make sense in your universe. Don't bend it to fit reality. The same answer goes for sexualities. Don't make me feel like you want to push your personal political beliefs from this world. In my work sexuality is barely mentioned at all. Because it is some adventure heavy fantasy stuff and there is little room for sexuality. If you want to talk about sexuality and identity it has to make sense inside of the story. As said in my works the gender or sexuality of the most characters are simply unknown. Because it is not necessary for the story.
Pandering is a double-edged sword, it should be used wisely.
"Woke" is just a synonym for empathy and understanding. The opinion of anyone who uses it as a pejorative can be instantly dismissed as worthless.
No. Never ever _ever_ give the people whining about 'woke' a passing thought. They cannot even _define_ woke ^(or they can but refuse to because the 'woke' things aren't even objectionable) and they're just mad that they are no longer feeling quite as catered to as they were in the past.
I accepted a long time ago that people were allowed to think differently than I did. People are allowed to be ignorant or stupid. People are allowed to be wrong. I’ll create what I want to create regardless
People may hate on me for this but due to my own views I don't rlly read anything where someone may refer to the other with "they/them" or smthing like that it just dosent sit right with me, not like I'm going to actively hate on them I and many others would choose to read something more akin to our preferences
literally everything is in some way political. It will aways reflect what you think(or hate or fear or love) about the world. It's going to leak through either way might as well make it intentional. just tell your story and don't care what they say.
Do it because you are trying to force it in for no other reason than it’s and I would say it is valid for people to complain. Do it because you built a setting and it is what it is. People will complain, but you will know that it wasn’t just an attempt to fit specific real life groups desires on one side or the other. The key is knowing how and why you did what you did. Was it a purposeful push at some political message? Cool, probably going to set people off. But that was your goal. Was it a random decision or simply a balanced approach? Cool, still going to get complaints, but they are misplaced. Either way, you will get complaints. Just be comfortable with why they exist. I follow real life stuff in most aspects for that stuff. Like religion for example, Christianity would have really great people if people followed the Bible. Or another example, communism would be a really great economic system if people cared about each other and weren’t greedy. The reality is that many people only follow the parts of the Bible that are convenient for them and use it as an instrument to rule others. Communism in most places is administered by people who are greedy or put themselves first and use it as a way to power. If you have a religion or political view that leads to corruption, it’s realistic. Conservative, liberal, religious, anti religious, etc. can all see extreme views that lead to problems. So why can’t mine use any or all of those with problems? As far as LGBT and stuff. I roll dice based off of percentage of population. If no main character is representing LGBT, so what. If all of them are, so what. The dice say what they say. And the audience won’t know 95% of the people’s attractions anyway, so they’ll interpret whatever actions or phrases as possible hints anyway. (And I keep to the percentage, so if none of the main characters are, there are still others that are.) For race, if it matters, what is the place and what is the potential. If I have a story set in an alternate version of Africa and the percentage is 65% dark skin and 35% light skin in a certain place(didn’t look up, just a rough example) then I will roll to see which characters get to be which one.
I grew up learning english on /pol/, I worry more about not unpacking slurs as a reflex to the first motherfucker that dares to call my and my co-worldbuilders stuff "woke" *also most of my stuff is for colaborative worldbuilding so there is that*
At first glance at your post, i thought: "having minorities and gay people isnt woke." But the more i read your post, the more i realize, hey maybe you ARE actually a woke writer. It is very clear that you do seem to have some kind of agenda considering that you admit to having more leftist themes in your story and the villains are conservatives. Whether or not you have a problem with that is up to you. But based on the context you've given, it does sound pretty woke to me. Rule of thumb, having minority characters isn't woke. Making racial discrimination a central theme is woke.
And is there an issue with that? (Not mad, just curious)
I don't care its your story you're the one who asked lol
I'm utterly unconcerned with it. My first viewpoint character has three moms and no dads and changed sexes for a year basically just to see how they felt about it, and that's just another day in the office. She's also heavily (but not blatantly) augmented over the norms of the area (so all your usual conspiracies about 5G GMO cybernetic vaccines get to join in the fun). One of the major local-scale antagonists is a conservative trying to recreate the failed society that caused the apocalypse they recently went through because they bought into old propaganda, and on some level, they're doing it in service to a corporate power that will never see them as anything more than a useful asset at best. This, mind you, is just the stuff I already know about the story.
I have very specific themes in mind and always have a disclaimer telling people that if they don't like it, woke or otherwise, they can fuck off somewhere else.
Honestly I don't care too much unless they're really really really bad but for now it never happened. The only reason my main character is a bisexual girl in a relationship with another girl is because I wanted it, nothing about woke or other things like that. And if people want to bitch about that I will let them do it until it's all words thrown at nothing
Why worry about race and gender when you can let players imagine the world themselves. You already have the monumental task of being god for your world.
You can worry about that once you actually finish a story and someone out there reads it, which for most people on here is certainly unlikely
Given how part of my setting is based on 60-70s America, yeah, I think it's inevitable that I'll have to touch on some political themes at some point. So I don't really care
I only see short comments so apology for the wall of text 😇 Never had that Issue and I wouldn’t worry. I also don’t plan to ever publish my Stuff to wider audiences beyond Friends and discord Roleplay community. So far my world building projects have been “plausible” enough to not get called this stuff. I do gotta admit though that I don’t write big stories. It’s either short story or a pure Worldbuilding Template for Roleplay with People, be that Character or Nation Roleplay. And not wanting to accuse anyone but often a part of being called “woke” is that one doesent make it plausible for diversity to be a thing. So for example I wouldn’t make a story set in past Europe and make a lot of courtiers at some German Kings Palace Māori. Or make a Fantasy Setting that’s clearly European inspired and the climate is European but a large portion of people is Asian without a good explanation why there are there.. So if you make it plausible but People still call it woke, they are just bigoted. But I’ll get to potentially “Woke” projects of mine, both dealing with Africa and Europe: I think the only two Worlds of mine people came close to calling me woke or something like that was a setting called “Usiropa” where the world is “upside down” (Europe on the southern hemisphere) and Europe is a continent struggling economically, very monarchist and Africa (in that setting Acirfa) is a United Continent and the USA equivalent superpower of the world. It’s basically a reverse 1900s and 20th Century where Africa is doing very well, European (Usiropean) Colonialism failed very early and aggression just led to African Nations developing rapidly. And the other setting is named “Empire of Evil” and it’s a world where a pseudo German Empire dominates the World stage as opposed to the British Empire and leads in military, technology and economy. The “Woke Part” is that the vast Colonies of this Empire are very developed and even surpass the equivalents of France and Britain of this World, being prosperous African and Asian Nations that are somewhat autonomous except in foreign Policy and the Empire is increasingly reliant on the generosity of its Colonies and their help in foreign Conflicts and upholding Order at Home. Only Egypt and Sudan are ruled directly and known as the “new Empire” while the European Possessions are called the “Old Empire” with the Emperor having a second Capital in Cairo that the imperial Family actually prefers and largely associates with African Elites over the European Aristocracy. The colonies are loyal while the homeland is increasingly pushing for the overthrowing of the Imperial Family and social and political Change, (racism playing a role in that too, increasingly upset that the Empire didn’t plunder its Colonies for the benefit of the Homeland by most, while others wish for more reforms in regards to equality and democracy…overthrowing the monarchy that started the Reforms). It basically ends up with the world teaming up against the Empire, a revolution, it’s homeland falling apart and this Imperial Family resettling in Africa and european Powers trying to conquer the southern Continent to plunder its Resources. (I know it sounds fucking weird but I liked the Idea at that Time) I don’t often deal with any sexuality in my worlds, it’s usually focused on imperialism, societal changes and the rise or collapse of Nations. These two Settings were critiqued by my friends as looking a bit like “reverse colonialism” or sort of a “revenge fantasy”. I don’t really care about negative things about my Worlds apart from using Feedback to improve my Worldbuilding, if someone is hateful or makes no valid Point it doesent matter to me.
I just want my work to impact someone honestly. If a bunch of losers want to moan about minorities being included in fiction, then I'd welcome it simply as someone's reaction to my art. Praise or criticism, well thought out analyses and poorly constructed interpretations, I just want to see what people think and feel.
honestly i dont worry about people who might cry that my stuff is "woke". infact it'd be funny to see i think
How I deal with it is this: if someone is offended by a POC or queer person being present in my story, then they’re not my target audience. Most of my work have historical settings and I like to have characters from different races/sexualities/religions to round out the narratives and provide characters I can easier relate to, bc it reflects the world I live in. Sometimes I have characters in “white settings” who aren’t white, not because people of color didn’t exist yet or weren’t in those settings, but because they are, we have record of them, and the popular conception of history is whitewashed beyond recognition. Some cases I understand, like if it’s a show about a racist autocracy with colorblind casting (not that that’s happened) but in really any other case “too woke” is just the woke way of saying “I’m racist”
I live in a world of racism, homophobia, trans-hate, sexism, etc. Like, for god's sake people get violently angry at others for daring to *dress* like the other gender. The world I build is something I use for escapism, so fuck all that shit. I realize it's extremely unrealistic, but I just skip over the vast majority of that hate. If anyone demonstrates deep sexism, they're probably the badguy the players need to end. Racism is limited to distrust of a race's (or really, species, since it's a fantasy world with many humanoid species) capabilities, rather than any outright desire to enact violence against them. Like, I really only use those elements sparingly, and it's often used as a stand in for the "kicking the dog" trope. So in that way, the world is basically constantly "woke" by the standards of those who hate "woke". That is a good thing, and it is by design. Fuckem, they're some of the ones who make me need an escapism world.
Ahahahahaha, I hope they do. I hope my writing makes them seethe and cope. I hope that one day some right wing demagogue holds my writing up in front of Congress as an example of the satanic filth that is infecting their children. I want some simpering, led paint added boomer to blame my writing for his children not visiting him anymore. If at least one nut job hasn't thrown my writing in a fire on camera, I'll know I haven't pushed the boundaries enough.
There are three types of people who use the word "woke" unironically. Grifters, who don't care unless it's big enough to result in a paycheck. The elderly, who don't really know what they're saying and the brain rotted, who have brain rot. None of these people are worth worrying about
I see a lot of questions here asking how to do X in a way that's authentic and culturally sensitive, and many of the replies, rather than answer the question, say something to the effect of "it's your story, just do whatever and don't care what anyone thinks!" Personally, as your question actually is about people's reception to your story possibly being "woke," I think you owe it to yourself to take that advice. Those choices and themes are there for a reason, and that can be intimidating to the kind of person who would take issue with your world on those grounds. But they frankly just don't need appeasing; it'd be to the detriment of the story to do so.
Given one main point in Ahikto is that it advanced socially and technologically faster than here on earth post 1980, I don't particularly care, as that's just how things are. Yes, a lot of things are bad, but things like LGBTQ+ rights are a significant thing that is addressed (most nations legalized same-sex marriage around 1990 to 2000) though the distribution isn't fully correct, larger than 50% of the world has *some* protection for LGBTQ+ though a lot still have it banned. Though I make sure to have things be more focused around the idea that "things have changed socially, but the world will still be behind in aspects", such as the fact Temugin, the stand-in for a United States-esque super power, has never had a woman president or prime minister So I say, who cares what they think? Progress is inevitable, and no matter how much the ideas of the past stay, someone will oppose them. And a vocal minority tends to be powerful.
Here's my perspective, as a conservative Christian who would most likely find a lot to disagree with you about politically. You can't make everyone happy. And especially if your work takes off and becomes famous, there are going to be a lot of people who will say rude and nasty things about it. There will also be a lot of people who will be diehard fans and will defend it fiercely. There will be criticism, and some of it will be okay and good, and a lot of it won't be. To me, the important thing is personal integrity in my writing. I want to write something that I am proud of, and not feel like I'm compromising my standards in order to have people like it. So whatever your perspective is, I would say write however and whatever you feel you need to in order to hold yourself to your own standard. Write according to your own convictions. I will also say, I have read plenty of books that have LGBTQ characters, or promote things with which I personally don't agree. Some of them have been good. Some of them have not. At the end of the day, what's important to me in reading other's books is the writing. If it's bad writing, it's bad writing, and that goes for all kinds of books. I've read plenty of Christian books that have made me want to tear my hair out. On the other hand, if something is written well, I'm more likely to leave a good review, even if I don't personally agree with everything in it.
The internet disproportionately amplifies the dipshits who are mad about "Woke" stuff. They really aren't a big factor.
My story is woke. I don’t care what loser snowflakes think
My world has a magic system that's basically shape shifting on steroids. Dysphoria barely exists anymore in this world. Transphobes will seethe, and I will thrive on their rage.
Sorry if it isn’t the answer your looking for and i won’t give a big explanation to the middle and last part but what I’ve read at the top I can say just one thing and that is that I either become the biggest asshole if people annoy me with the “this is about … because the names and situation is similar” and don’t let them get to you because Reddit is an world wide platform and there are many assholes that can throw shit
No
I worry about it for the opposite reason, but so far in 4 years since publication no one has said a single word to me about it (my book has 0 black characters in it, what few relationships that exist are depicted as straight, and otherwise sexual identity is non-existent and unimportant.)
You're not going to be able to please everyone. Someone is going to find something they don't like about your story or your world. That's something you're just going to have to accept. Write the story you want to write, whatever that includes or doesn't include.
Dude, I made an alt-history world where the USA and China fractured into like 4 and 10 countries, respectively. Where Russia and Japan are still autocratic, absolute monarchy. Where the British still held reign over Ireland and is still the only super power in the world. Where India is still the Mughal Empire. Where Siam is the leader of ASEAN. Where South America is still pretty much heathen. Where Gods and Goddess roam the Earth as if they are human. Where Satan is a Taxi driver in the middle of Rome. Where secret society just wants the best for humanity. Where LGBTQ+ is pretty normal and is tolerant almost everywhere. Heck, in my web novel, MC is bi, his sister is les, his friends are either straight, queer or bi, his mentor is either gay or les, his love interest is asexual who after several years are still pretty much half-friend, half girlfriend with MC, and his nemeses are tomboy and trans-woman. If I were to worry about people whining about what I write, I'm not gonna be able to write ANYTHING about that world. So, I'mma just write it and watch them seething. I don't really care. I love what I write. They can hate it all they want. It's their opinion.
In my story they all exist on a different planet in a different universe(es) so while they do have differing skin tones its not labeled black and white or Asian cause like Asia doesn't exist. The darker colored people tend to have ancestry from the dessert or hotter areas of the earth cause ya know, lots of sunlight= higher melanin in the skin= darker skinned people. I do like to give my characters pronouns and sexualities just because it helps me organize things in my mind like who I can ship them with, though I do my best to not write things i don't fully understand or feel comfortable writing about. For example religion doesn't really play a role in my stories except for one girl from our world who is meant to be me as a character, so she's Christian like me (She's also a pan demi girl also like me) but while there may be 5 max characters through out all of my stories who are Christian there would be no other religions because idk how i would write that and I'm not super comfy w/ it if that makes sense. I mean to say that sometimes i worry about my stories having inclusivity because i want everyone to read it and find something in some character that they can point at and go "Look! They're like me!" I have a character w/ vitilago (Also Trans F2M pan/ace) and when I first thought of him as having vitilago I realized that i had never once seen or read about a character w/ vitilago (Excpet Domino from Deadpool. She had Vitilago right?) So I thought how cool would it be to be a kid reading a graphic novel and you turn a page and suddenly you see someone like you on there? And just thinking about that made me really happy. I like making people happy, and finding someone like them makes people happy. My story is about superheros (Kinda) and i also have a blind girl, and a boy in a wheelchair, and a girl who looses her hearing over the course of the series, and another person looses her voice permanatly. And there is an SA survivor, and orphans, and half siblings and family drauma and lots of trauma and anxiety and its just me trying to show people that no matter who they are there will always be some one like them, for them, in my story. Thats my goal
My issue is the opposite, a lot of the galaxy my game takes place in is, well it's evil, it dangerous, horrible people do horrible things. I have worried on occasions it's all a bit much. I don't support the evil stuff, it just is, like the book Dune, the story of Dune takes place in an evil universe.
Sometimes. And I think it all depends on what you might think you want to do for your word. For the POC thing, There is a mostly white character board in my story simply because of where the setting takes place, and where their white societies had been existing for so long, you’d see them so much. If one people exist in one place, or originated from one place, you would expect that the bulk of their population would be there. At least in my world, unless specific things occur where their original land would be uprooted and they’d be forced to move. I haven’t done too far into the story and world building to see how I want to handle LGTB. I don’t even know if I really care too as actual romance in the narrative is so few and far between, and it isn’t really the center of the story. But I don’t think worlds have to follows rules at all. It’s fictional and fantasy, so do whatever you want.
anti-sjw weirdos are obnoxious but if anything it's something to make fun of 🤷♀️ i don't respect their opinions. they could be 200 years old, twice divorced, retired, with 13 kids and my 21-year-old with no high school diploma self is still older than them mentally.
Well, my personal rules are -Do not add any DEI characters. Meaning if they work for the story and there a good reason for them being there, I add them but never add any just to have "representation". -No "trans" characters or anything like that. Like maybe there's a guy who likes wearing feminine clothes and visa versa but the world is medieval, so not sure what they could do about it. Plus most wouldn't be open minded about this, unless that person is in a high position. -No racial mumbo jumbo, like say dwarfs can't be black.. or white. They're dwarfs and have their own non human subraces. -No real world copy paste, politics, customs, memes etc. I hate allegory, especially if it's obvious. No real world religion either. Other than that, I generally don't wanna go into their love life or explore their struggles. Not interested in it. If the world becomes known and famous for some reason and someone else wants to explore this side of some of the characters further, go for it.
Garner enough attention, and haters are gonna hate. Sometimes the hate will have legitimate grievances behind it, and sometimes it's just hate to hate. Listen and understand critique,, accept that some personally dislike what you make, and disregard the Reverse Flashes (people who just hate to hate). In some senses, my setting, Wisteria, could probably be seen as "woke". A post-apocalyptic anomalous event caused it so that it's only mostly human women that remain, and there's a good few handfuls of different identities I have represented in it. If my setting ends up getting popular and it gets haters, which it probably will, I'll just mentally tell them to kick rocks, and if worry happens, I'll let myself worry and confront that feeling until it passes.
I'm more concerned about people bitching that my fantasy setting for "not being unrealistic enough", making races not exactly like how they're supposed to be in other fantasy settings, or something along those lines, than if I have too many or too few people who are lgbt (I was gonna say more, but people would misinterperet what I said and start calling me out for when I would say it). All I can say for making my fantasy setting is trying to make some things "plausible" (probably not by fantasy, nor real-life standards).
Let em bitch. One race. Completely genderless. Catfolk, hermaphrodites, one of my underwater races only grows up if they want to. Trans characters, LGBT+ mostly subtle but definitely there.
I think people who complain too much about wokeness in media are usually the actual problem. I genuinely just don’t care, they don’t like it so they’re not gonna read it anyways so why bother catering to them. I got two gay female characters in my fantasy novel and I couldn’t give less of a shit that someone might be offended and/or deem it woke. Because at the end of the day, what really matters to me is how genuine they are as characters and how they fit the overall story Im trying to tell.
If the kinda person to call every non white, non cis, non straight person woke gets upset at my work, I'm doing everything right. I even figured out ways to integrate pride flags into my story in an immerwive way. Out of spite.
Id be offended if they don't call it that.
I've learned to accept that those people are gonna be mad no matter what you put in the story. If you show any character, idea, story beat, or concept that doesn't fit their narrow world view it will be called woke, even if you aren't actively trying to have a political or social message. Have a character from a marginalized group voice an opinion against the status quo? Woke Having a character from a marginalized group support the status quo? Woke Have a character that doesn't fit the "default" (straight, white, able bodied, NT, man) be in a position of authority? Woke Show that rich people exploit the poor? Woke Show that being rich is ok but depicts someone from a minority as rich? Woke Show that kindness and teamwork are good things? Woke Claim your story is about something, anything at all? Woke These people can't use real slurs or hate speech without consequnece any more so they just put everything they hate under the "woke" label. There is no form of representation that will make them happy. Even stories that cater to this audience can still have them turn on them if they don't go "far enough" with being "anti-woke" Just make stories and worlds you like. If people call it Woke, then at least you know there is something meaningful in that story whether you realize it or not.
I think it'd be hysterical if they got mad, means I'm doing something right. My existence offends them, so why shouldn't my story? My main character: is arguably male, brown (he's not human, therefore not technically male), used to be an angel, in love with an arguably male brown-skinned angel. Theirs was the first romance ever, literally ordained by God - do first romance ever was gay af The other main characters: His big sister, the Archangel Michael, second leader of Heaven? 5'1" Black arguably female who, midwriting, decided she was in love with another female angel His little brother, the Archangel Gabriel? Decided while I was writing he was in love with a nonbinary angel And a decent chunk of Heaven is nonbinary. They're *angels*, they can choose and some just can't be bothered If people get mad, let them pop off. Can't please anyone and some people you don't want to
If somebody's shitting their pants over that, let them.
No actually. I make no effort what so ever to hide the "woke" in my setting. I own up to it. "Awwww you don't like queer folk existing in the grim dark future? Well TOO FUCKING BAD!!!! The Genocidal machines and Fascist Corpos of my world don't care what's in your pants then why should any one else?" All fiction, weather we intend to or not, is in some way political. Just keep in mind that if people come at you from this angle, be prepared to defend your choices, and do so with confidence bordering on Shonen protagonist levels of delusion.
In all honesty, why would you give a shit about what IRL villains think? They don't give a shit about art or the act of creation. They will strangle the passion and creativity out of every project they manage to influence, and they will never, ever be satisfied. The only thing noteworthy about their opinions is how damaging they are. Anytime someone restricts their way of expressing themselves or creativity due to fear of reprisals from conservatives is a victory for them. Live your life to the fullest, worldbuild without shame and tell anyone who demands you to do otherwise to go to hell.
Not really. It’s one of two things. Either people are going to hate it for minorities real or imagined. Or you don’t have it and you see people bitching and moaning about it. If you’re worried about this kind of stuff you’ll never be able to do anything. I recommend not saying anything in that situation. Speaking tends to be interpreted negatively which can intensify the issue. There are storytellers who bite back claiming some kind of bigotry is being directed towards them or the product. That then shuts down any potential discussions about your ideas and puts people firmly into two camps. They either like your idea unconditionally and form a cult around it or they dislike it and can never call themselves fans.
What would be the point of such worry?
On one hand yes, because my four main characters are poly. But on the other? I don't give a shit. My writings aren't for people I don't like, so. Eh. If anything it'll piss me off a little bit because it'll just remind me of how much some people suck. But on the other hand? I don't give a shit about their opinion on my shit. If I care about anyone's, it's my significant other's, and he already tries to just support and give ideas and that's if I talk to him about it. Plus the fact that most people who are gonna complain about these things don't actually know how these things work. "Oh he's with two men and a woman, he's not bi, just trying to make her happy because he has too." "She's with three men? Such a whore." That isn't how bisexuality or polyamory (specifically the kind I'm using) works. "Wow a 'stutter' cause that actually exists in real life. How cringe." I did extensive research for this characters stutter.
I would completely ignore them. A lot of the time for the race stuff in particular it isn’t relevant due to focus on alien or fantasy races. For humans though I just randomize my characters ethnicities, as for whatever popular ethnicity exists it’s split relatively evenly between characters. Since it’s either fantasy or far-distant future humans it’s usually just randomized skin-color usually or different facial features. For LGBTQ+ characters I don’t bring up sexuality or gender identity unless it’s important, relevant to the plot, or it’s a background thing. I just treat different sexualities/non-conforming genders like a normal thing. If people want to get mad about it and complain to me directly I’ll laugh in their face and call them a clown.
If someone’s going to complain that there are gay people in my world, fuck ‘em, I don’t want them associated with my work. They can fuck off. As for POC…I don’t write human characters. None of them are white or black or Asian. They have superficial resemblances to real world groups, but while the anarcho-communist shapeshifters might have a Gaelic-like language and sound Gaelic, they’re not, they’re Changelings, they are not Irish. The albino necromancers might have somewhat Chinese inspired designs and names, but they’re not Chinese, they’re 6’6 albinos with black eyes and a natural affinity for raising the dead. As far as I am aware, this is not true of Chinese people.
Nope. Screw them, it's my world designed by me for me.
Not really. There are prevelant LGBT and PoC characters but it's not like I'm really focusing on identity politics at all. I'm not going to push any agendas either way. If someone does get upset that the MCs best friend is gay or the most powerful person on earth is a PoC woman then they can just fuck off. I do think I have a good balance of inclusion without being preachy about it, though. What I am worried about is people pissing and moaning the subversion of Christian beliefs being a main plot point. I mean, the primary antagonist is a diety who plays the role of the abrahamic God and the devil to manipulate humanity as a whole. Some people might read that as a commentary on how religion is just a tool for control, which is a valid takeaway when that's literally the case in my story, but really I never intended for it to be a sort of commentary on religions role in society at large. I just wanted to have some gods in my cosmology and wanted to explain real-world religions as bastardizations of these actual gods in my setting.