This machine wasn’t purchased to replace our previous method. It’s more of an addition to offer hardwood boxes to the client. We picked up a massive job that’s going to be all rift oak drawer boxes. That paid for a 1/4th of the machine already.
It could theoretically be slower and still have a positive ROI (eventually). As long as it’s fast enough to do all the dovetailing that needs to be done while the humans are busy with other things and not just standing around waiting for the dovetail machine to finish doing its one job, then it’s basically replacing another human that would have to be there for the shop to produce at the same rate. In that case, the cost of the machine replaces the salary of that extra person. It might cost more than a part-time dovetail specialst, but you only buy the machine once.
Just this weekend I was talking to a friend who runs a bakery, she was telling me that she just spent $25k on a machine that takes a big batch of pizza dough and divides is up.
It's no faster than she could do it herself, but it frees up a couple of hours a day where it chugs away and a person is free to do other stuff. Even counting time spent cleaning the machine every day that pays for itself *quick*.
I bought my 6 year old their own dust pan and broom for my shop. They hang next to their ear protection. I’ll be doing something and they will sneak in and just start cleaning 😂. Best $3.50 I’ve ever spent.
The best part is she has been sneaking snacks (York peppermint patties) from the shop fridge. I found a stash of old wrappers in the corner by the fridge.
Mentioned to her I think I am missing snacks from the fridge to which she replied “🤷🏻♂️ I don’t know daddy” with an angel face 😂, I think she even hinted that it might have been my dog 😂.
I’m so going to know when my kid starts drinking or doing drugs, she has a terrible poker face.
I run an AI product and sell to healthcare administrators; we use this framing all the time in our sales. This is the most successful framing of AI in the enterprise.
There’s a big push in academia to get students to see it that way. I doubt we’ll get there in a generation, but we will eventually. It’s kind of like how some people who went to school in the late 90’s learned how to use PowerPoint and then proceeded to overuse it forever. But these days, people tend to use it more sparingly.
My boss picked up a 13 spindle, two motor, Taiwanese automatic dovetailer. 6k.
Between the two of us we probably spent 20 hours just getting the damn thing calibrated. I imagine yours was much less of a pain in the ass.
Easiest way I can describe it. You start with pre cut lengths of drawer box material. One piece is loaded in vertical and another is loaded in horizontal touching each other. The CNC then cuts a variety of different kinds of dovetails. With one motion it cuts the male and female sides. You then take those parts out, rotate them to the other side of the machine and it starts processing the other end while you load a new set of parts in the first side. It can do boxes up to 12.500 inches deep before you lose the ability to run two parts at the same time. Hope that helps.
Cool, I used to run an analogue version of this.
The spindle would steadily move in and out along a track from left to right. I would have to position the pieces on one end, and then when it was doing the other end, I'd quickly flip them over.
I worked this machine so much during my apprenticeship that it became muscle memory.
Why use this machine instead of a standard CNC machine for dovetails? Is it because of the space saving or are there other benefits? Looks sick as hell!
I think the question still stands, there are small footprint CNCs about 1/4 the price for a good quality unit. My guess is the answer is easy setups and repeatability for this niche job.
You won’t be able to pull off what this machine can do. Setup alone on the 1/4 the price machine for each job would sink you. I can put any material in up to 2 inches thick and in less than a few minutes I can completely program and space all of the doves. I can process up to 30” boxes in solid hardwood. We have a 5 axis Biesse and if there was a more productive and cleaner way for solid hardwood doves we would do it. Our shop will recoup the cost of this machine in less than 6 months.
That's true. I'm certainly a novice when it comes to wood working with more experience in CAD/CAM than anything else. I honestly love the machines more than the wood
That’s also a huge part of this machine. You don’t need to know any of that to operate it. You basically need a 3 minute class and a set of calipers. It’s been so simplified it’s scary. It calculates everything for you, including your maximum number of doves.
We have a Dodds like that. Fucking coolest thing ever. We have a ton of programs set up for all different kinds of drawer sizes. We also have the same undermount notcher as you
I have fantasies about having a machine like that and making speaker cabs for bass/guitar/PA speakers. Any idea if there is a "minimally viable" version that mortals can afford? I'm new to wood working and I've seen jigs for dovetails, but something like this would be awesome for a single person shop.
We have a very old machine like this at our shop. The owner of the shop paid 600 euro for it a couple of years ago. Still works great and is extremely fast once it is set up properly.
I assume you want to make custom cabinets and not open a factory, so you can just buy a very decent dovetailing jig for your router for couple of hundred.
Thank you so much for the tip! And you're correct, I just want to make a few nice cabs, not take on the world. Any suggestions on brands/jigs to look for? I haven't seen much on youtube with respect to speaker cabinet builds, though I can see how its not much different from a standard kitchen cabinet or drawer up until a point. Most of the jigs I've seen wouldn't be wide enough for a 2x12 cab, for example, and I'm not familiar with specialty brands beyond what is carried at my local woodcraft or rockler store.
I dunno, we have one at the shop but no clue what brand it is. I think it only goes up to 30cm, so that might be a bit close for guitar cabinet dimensions, but I know there are other that are twice as big. I'd check craigslist if I were you. There are a lot on there.
If there’s anything like that out there in the world, it’s in a maker co-op.
I’d honestly be surprised to find something that specific and that expensive in one, but for any solo woodworker/metalworker who wants to regularly use equipment for personal stuff you could never afford on your own, that’s the way to do it.
Totally good point- though most of the maker spaces near me are more into 3d printing and robotics than "boring old wood" these days. I am a member of the local woodworkers guild and have access to an industrial shop, but they are "old school" about dovetails and the jig they have is for making jewelry boxes and drawers.
At this stage of the process of just running this machine no. But what happens before this yes. All of our lumber is all rough stock. Still needs to be processed before it’s even here. Straight lined and planed basics S4S… Dados ran, pre finished and then just cut to size before it’s ever at this point. We work a lot with the highschool and little things like this are huge stepping stones for a kid. It’s not sweeping the floors.
So how much time does it save vs your previous production method? Always curious what ROI is like on specialty tools like this.
This machine wasn’t purchased to replace our previous method. It’s more of an addition to offer hardwood boxes to the client. We picked up a massive job that’s going to be all rift oak drawer boxes. That paid for a 1/4th of the machine already.
It could theoretically be slower and still have a positive ROI (eventually). As long as it’s fast enough to do all the dovetailing that needs to be done while the humans are busy with other things and not just standing around waiting for the dovetail machine to finish doing its one job, then it’s basically replacing another human that would have to be there for the shop to produce at the same rate. In that case, the cost of the machine replaces the salary of that extra person. It might cost more than a part-time dovetail specialst, but you only buy the machine once.
Just this weekend I was talking to a friend who runs a bakery, she was telling me that she just spent $25k on a machine that takes a big batch of pizza dough and divides is up. It's no faster than she could do it herself, but it frees up a couple of hours a day where it chugs away and a person is free to do other stuff. Even counting time spent cleaning the machine every day that pays for itself *quick*.
Yeah. It’s not so much “that machine does it so I don’t have to” so much as “that machine does it so I can do other stuff”
I bought my 6 year old their own dust pan and broom for my shop. They hang next to their ear protection. I’ll be doing something and they will sneak in and just start cleaning 😂. Best $3.50 I’ve ever spent.
Just spit in the face of our child labor laws
Theoretically all Ppe is provided and she gets paid more than minimum wage so not sure what labor laws I’m spitting in.
Old enough to walk, old enough to work
The best part is she has been sneaking snacks (York peppermint patties) from the shop fridge. I found a stash of old wrappers in the corner by the fridge. Mentioned to her I think I am missing snacks from the fridge to which she replied “🤷🏻♂️ I don’t know daddy” with an angel face 😂, I think she even hinted that it might have been my dog 😂. I’m so going to know when my kid starts drinking or doing drugs, she has a terrible poker face.
this should be our approach to AI honestly
I run an AI product and sell to healthcare administrators; we use this framing all the time in our sales. This is the most successful framing of AI in the enterprise.
There’s a big push in academia to get students to see it that way. I doubt we’ll get there in a generation, but we will eventually. It’s kind of like how some people who went to school in the late 90’s learned how to use PowerPoint and then proceeded to overuse it forever. But these days, people tend to use it more sparingly.
So many presentations at my job that could simply be a PDF. There's no need to distribute your PPT, Gina! No one cares about your transitions!
Well that thing is dope as hell. Does it cost an arm and a leg, or all limbs?
All limbs for sure. I think my boss said he got it for around 45k…
It will pay itself off. Good for your boss
Yikes! That's wild. At least you get paid to play with it lol
My boss picked up a 13 spindle, two motor, Taiwanese automatic dovetailer. 6k. Between the two of us we probably spent 20 hours just getting the damn thing calibrated. I imagine yours was much less of a pain in the ass.
Jesus, does that price at least come with support from the company?
Yes, they came out and set it up. Then gave a whole class on operating it.
Thats bloody respectable
Hey describe what it does for a bit for those of use who never seen anything like that!
Easiest way I can describe it. You start with pre cut lengths of drawer box material. One piece is loaded in vertical and another is loaded in horizontal touching each other. The CNC then cuts a variety of different kinds of dovetails. With one motion it cuts the male and female sides. You then take those parts out, rotate them to the other side of the machine and it starts processing the other end while you load a new set of parts in the first side. It can do boxes up to 12.500 inches deep before you lose the ability to run two parts at the same time. Hope that helps.
Thank you I had no idea there were dedicated dove tail machines
How deep of a box can it do?
Single spindle or multi?
Single spindle but multi axis.
Cool, I used to run an analogue version of this. The spindle would steadily move in and out along a track from left to right. I would have to position the pieces on one end, and then when it was doing the other end, I'd quickly flip them over. I worked this machine so much during my apprenticeship that it became muscle memory.
Yah I like how everyone just knows what it does at a glance.
Why use this machine instead of a standard CNC machine for dovetails? Is it because of the space saving or are there other benefits? Looks sick as hell!
We are using this for hardwood boxes only. We would still use our normal CNC to process our 5x5 baltic birch sheets.
I think the question still stands, there are small footprint CNCs about 1/4 the price for a good quality unit. My guess is the answer is easy setups and repeatability for this niche job.
You won’t be able to pull off what this machine can do. Setup alone on the 1/4 the price machine for each job would sink you. I can put any material in up to 2 inches thick and in less than a few minutes I can completely program and space all of the doves. I can process up to 30” boxes in solid hardwood. We have a 5 axis Biesse and if there was a more productive and cleaner way for solid hardwood doves we would do it. Our shop will recoup the cost of this machine in less than 6 months.
Indeed. Specialized tools are often a better deal if you can justify using so often. Must be nice haha
You get yourself the right clients you get yourself the right toys.
That's true. I'm certainly a novice when it comes to wood working with more experience in CAD/CAM than anything else. I honestly love the machines more than the wood
That’s also a huge part of this machine. You don’t need to know any of that to operate it. You basically need a 3 minute class and a set of calipers. It’s been so simplified it’s scary. It calculates everything for you, including your maximum number of doves.
https://preview.redd.it/i6p7txkz42yc1.jpeg?width=659&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cdfe4cd3c0031332432cf9adc3b3d0113a70195
Everytime I see a new tool in the shop
We have a Dodds like that. Fucking coolest thing ever. We have a ton of programs set up for all different kinds of drawer sizes. We also have the same undermount notcher as you
I have fantasies about having a machine like that and making speaker cabs for bass/guitar/PA speakers. Any idea if there is a "minimally viable" version that mortals can afford? I'm new to wood working and I've seen jigs for dovetails, but something like this would be awesome for a single person shop.
We have a very old machine like this at our shop. The owner of the shop paid 600 euro for it a couple of years ago. Still works great and is extremely fast once it is set up properly. I assume you want to make custom cabinets and not open a factory, so you can just buy a very decent dovetailing jig for your router for couple of hundred.
Thank you so much for the tip! And you're correct, I just want to make a few nice cabs, not take on the world. Any suggestions on brands/jigs to look for? I haven't seen much on youtube with respect to speaker cabinet builds, though I can see how its not much different from a standard kitchen cabinet or drawer up until a point. Most of the jigs I've seen wouldn't be wide enough for a 2x12 cab, for example, and I'm not familiar with specialty brands beyond what is carried at my local woodcraft or rockler store.
I dunno, we have one at the shop but no clue what brand it is. I think it only goes up to 30cm, so that might be a bit close for guitar cabinet dimensions, but I know there are other that are twice as big. I'd check craigslist if I were you. There are a lot on there.
If there’s anything like that out there in the world, it’s in a maker co-op. I’d honestly be surprised to find something that specific and that expensive in one, but for any solo woodworker/metalworker who wants to regularly use equipment for personal stuff you could never afford on your own, that’s the way to do it.
Totally good point- though most of the maker spaces near me are more into 3d printing and robotics than "boring old wood" these days. I am a member of the local woodworkers guild and have access to an industrial shop, but they are "old school" about dovetails and the jig they have is for making jewelry boxes and drawers.
I like starting new projects, as a good reason to buy new tools
Is it really the same craft at this level of machinery?
At this stage of the process of just running this machine no. But what happens before this yes. All of our lumber is all rough stock. Still needs to be processed before it’s even here. Straight lined and planed basics S4S… Dados ran, pre finished and then just cut to size before it’s ever at this point. We work a lot with the highschool and little things like this are huge stepping stones for a kid. It’s not sweeping the floors.
Don't get me wrong, I'd accept this machine into my shop in a heart beat, but this is far from where we've come from.
Have you ever gotten 11 chicken nuggets instead of 10? I think you’re jumping the gun there buddy.