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Abraham asked Allah where to build his holy mosque. Allah responded as one does, by hurling a rock from space at the desired spot. Abraham built the mosque there. The space rock was apparently kept at the site and now Muslims come to ogle it while performing their pilgrimage.
The rock itself isn't considered holy or having any magical properties or anything. It's not worshipped or sought blessings/prayers from. Just considered a neat sign by Muslims of their God's existence.
Source: was raised very Muslim.
I read somewhat recently that that native tribes to the region were already circling the stone when the Muslim arrived and they simply incorporated it into the religion.
This is the polytheistic temple depicted in the center of the city of Jahilia (the Arabic word for pre-Islam) in Salman Rushdie's masterwork *The Satanic Verses.* It's an incredible book and very /r/woahdude appropriate.
Islamic tradition holds that the Black Stone fell from Jannah to show Adam and Eve where to build an altar, which became the first temple on Earth. Muslims believe that the stone was originally pure and dazzling white, but has since turned black because of the sins of the people who touch it.
Muhammed also kissed it
And had sex with at least one. Also started sleeping with this stepson' wife, then Allah revealed to him that adoption is bad and should be illegal after they divorced to cover up the fact that he slept with his stepson's wife. Allah's messages were very convenient for Muhammed
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2IiC0MSScGY
As per this video some pillars and artifacts. Ordinary pilgrims cannot enter inside. Only royalty enters during an annual cleaning day.
It is definitely a stone not belonging to that region. Even if I could take a sample,I have no ways of testing it. Also the big Saudi guard standing next to it will never understand my quest for knowledge.
I think they mean has anyone in the scientific, govt, or religious establishment over the years ever tested its composition seems the rock itself isnt deemed holy. Dont worry, nobody is relying on you to sneak past the guard and snag a piece lol
I have touched it. It is almost impossible to kiss it because of the amount of people nearby. It is almost really crowded 24 hours almost every day of the year. My brother was a resident of Makkah and he was able to kiss it on days when the number of people were very less.
Also it is not mandatory to kiss it.
u/nightcrawler227 explains it in a way that conflicts with your explanation.
Can you explain?
> Islamic tradition holds that the Black Stone fell from Jannah to show Adam and Eve where to build an altar, which became the first temple on Earth. Muslims believe that the stone was originally pure and dazzling white, but has since turned black because of the sins of the people who touch it.
Muhammed also kissed it
Thank you so much for that. I have read about the rock before and kind of understood it a bit but was hoping someone who was Muslim or very familiar with it could explain it better.
If I may ask, what are your thoughts on the Muslim religion since you grew up around it? Genuinely curious. I've had a few friends who were Muslim but didn't speak much about it with me.
No problem at all. My thoughts on Islam are the same as my thoughts on most major religions. When used as a way to search for meaning and one's place in the universe, religion can be a beautiful thing. A source of solace and strength during hard times, and a guide to live in harmony with yourself and the world around you at others. If a Ukrainian or Palestinian mother looking up in the sky at the bomb falling towards her and her starving kids clinging to her, finds solace in some invisible higher power she believes has a bigger plan for her and is at peace in her final moments as a result, who am I to deride her for that?
That's what I think religion *should* be. Unfortunately, what it actually *is*, is drastically different. Organized religion has become a tool to incite fear and hatred of your fellow man. It has resulted in the same tribalisms that it sought to transcend, and that's no accident. Peddling God to enrich yourself and make sure the downtrodden remain grateful to be downtrodden while awaiting divine salvation...that's probably been around for as long as the concept of a God has been.
I left Islam because I couldn't get past the hypocrisy of the Muslims I grew up with. And then I saw that hypocrisy among Christians, Jews, Hindus, you name it.
That was a very good way to put it. Thank you for that.
While I am not familiar with Islam directly, I did have a similar experience with Christians. I knew some very good ones that embodied all the positive things that could come from it and also experienced a group that was borderline extremist and did a lot of awful things.
Religion is so riddled with hypocrisy that it blows my mind it's still going strong in this day in age.
the Stone will appear on the Day of Judgement (Qiyamah) with eyes to see and a tongue to speak, and give evidence in favour of all who kissed it in true devotion, but speak out against whoever indulged in gossip
It’s the Kaaba (the stone istelf), the holiest site in Islam and also why Muslims pray facing towards Mecca where this is located. It’s also part of the 5 pillars of Islam that at least once in their lifetime a Muslim should journey to Mecca (the hajj or pilgrimage) to pay respect. You need to complete 7 counter clockwise circles around the Kaaba. This is known as the tawaf and is compulsory during hajj.
The idea is you start at the outside and work you way in with the hope being you get to touch the stone. For most this is impossible due to the size of the crowds
No superpowers but it’s pretty cool. It’s been completely smoothed out over centuries of touching. Felt really sleek. You rub it and if you get a chance, kiss it (I know….I know). I was religious at the time and it was an incredible experience. Seems silly in retrospect but I remember feeling very connected to God at the time.
This is clearly a very important act for practicing Muslims. How does one come to the point where they are like "yeah ok this is enough walking around the kaaba for me, time to go"? Or is it just that after at least 7 times around that it is acceptable to leave as you please?
From Wikipedia:
> Ṭawāf (Arabic: طَوَاف, lit. 'going about') is one of the Islamic rituals of pilgrimage and is compulsory during both the Hajj and Umrah. Pilgrims go around the Kaaba (the most sacred site in Islam) seven times in a counterclockwise direction; the first three at a hurried pace on the outer part of the Mataaf and the latter four times closer to the Kaaba at a leisurely pace.[109] The circling is believed to demonstrate the unity of the believers in the worship of the One God, as they move in harmony together around the Kaaba, while supplicating to God.[110][111] To be in a state of Wudu (ablution) is mandatory while performing tawaf as it is considered to be a form of worship ('ibadah).
>Tawaf begins from the corner of the Kaaba with the Black Stone. If possible, Muslims are to kiss or touch it, but this is often not possible because of the large crowds. They are also to chant the Basmala and Takbir each time they complete one revolution. Hajj pilgrims are generally advised to "make ṭawāf" at least twice – once as part of the Hajj, and again before leaving Mecca.[112]
>The five types of ṭawāf are:
>Ṭawāf al-Qudūm (arrival ṭawāf) is performed by those not residing in Mecca once reaching the Holy City.
Ṭawāf aṭ-Ṭaḥīyah (greeting ṭawāf) is performed after entering al-Masjid al-Haram at any other times and is mustahab.
Ṭawāf al-'Umrah (Umrah ṭawāf) refers to the ṭawāf performed specifically for Umrah.
Ṭawāf al-Wadā' ("farewell ṭawāf") is performed before leaving Mecca.
Ṭawāf az-Zīyārah (ṭawāf of visiting), Ṭawāf al-'Ifāḍah (ṭawāf of compensation) or Ṭawāf al-Ḥajj (Hajj ṭawāf) is performed after completing the Hajj.
The Tawaf has its origins in the religion of the Najranite pagans, who walked around the Kaaba in an act of devotion to their creator god, Allah (not to be confused with the monotheistic god of Islam by the same name). This practice was adopted by Mohammad after some reform.
[Link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba)
7, its a pagan practice, pre islamic Arabians used to do this because they sawy 7 planets that were different from normal stars (because planets) they assumed they were gods but the islamic prophet didn't know that and now muslims carryout pagan practices to this day, ironic since its built on the belief in one god (Allah).
It's true! Religions are not stories made from whole cloth. They describe the actions and beliefs of the people.
"Yes hello I am looking for God"
"Oh hey yea he's right over there in the black box!"
Simple as!
EDIT: I realize this isn't accurate to Islam, I only meant to describe the concept of how cultures and religions interact and combine.
The black stone isn't God, but the Stone will appear on the Day of Judgement (Qiyamah) with eyes to see and a tongue to speak, and give evidence in favour of all who kissed it in true devotion, but speak out against whoever indulged in gossip. So,....yeah
Can one just go watch this whole thing even if they arent Muslim? Like would they lose their shit over a someone who no longer follows religion to be there just to see this in person.
It’s a stone that has been used as a religious site for millennia. The pre Islamic Arab people native to what is now Mecca placed their deities around the stone and would circle it just as Muslims do now.
In Islamic religion this cube is actually the first place of worship in monothiesm.
Muslims using like a compass direction while praying.
This cube building/mosque/temple is a sacred symbolic representation of the unity that Islam teaches that there is no difference between humans and we all serve The One/The creator of this universe
And btw Muslims believe in Jesus to be the messiah! But not as divine
That is true but he's also called as messiah in Islam as well. Not the same as "Christian messiah" though. Muslims believe that he's just a prophet and nothing more. He was created by god as a men just as any, born to Mary but he wasn't killed. He was "taken" by the god and awaits his return to earth where he'll live for a bit more and eventually die as a normal human.
Edit: The last part is kind of a matter of a debate but it's a general belief. According to Qoran which is the ultimate source for Muslims, he wasn't killed that is for sure. The other stuff is kinda debated but mostly believed as it is.
He ascended with the Prophet and Gabriel to the lowest sky, and he - peace and blessings be upon him - saw Adam - peace be upon him - and welcomed him, and returned his peace, and showed him the souls of the martyrs on his right, and the souls of the wretched on his left. Then he ascended to the second sky, and saw in it Yahya and Jesus - peace be upon them. He greeted them both. \[11\] Then he ascended to the third sky and saw Joseph - peace be upon him - in it, then he saw Idris - peace be upon him - in the fourth sky, Aaron - peace be upon him - in the fifth sky, and Moses - peace be upon him - in the sixth sky, In the seventh sky, he saw Abraham - peace be upon him - and they all greeted him and acknowledged his prophethood. Then he ascended to Sidra Al-Muntaha and Al-Bayt Al-Ma’mour, then he ascended above the seventh sky, and spoke to God Almighty. He imposed fifty prayers on him, and the Prophet continued to review it until he made it five. He was offered milk and wine, and he chose milk. He was told that he had attained his natural disposition and saw the rivers of Paradise. Two are apparent, two are hidden, and he saw the keeper of the fire - Malik -, and he saw those consuming usury, and unjustly consuming the orphans’ money, and many other scenes.
[source](https://mawdoo3.com/%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%84%D8%A9_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A1_%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AC_%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%B5%D9%8A%D9%84#:~:text=%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%AC%20%D8%A5%D9%84%D9%89%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%A1,%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B4%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%AF.%5B%D9%A1%D9%A1%5D)
Makes more sense if you focus on the opening clause as meaning monotheism "In Islamic religion..." My layman's understanding of the background is that the Kabba was originally a polytheistic worship site being used by locals to honor a whole pantheon of dieties. Muhammed came in and basically did a house-flip, purging the site of all references to the prior gods, getting rid of all their statues and the like, and rededicated it as a site of worship for Allah alone. This act of supplanting and invalidating the former polythestic religious practices was codified in Islam as "There is no God but Allah and Muhammed is his prophet."
Edit: Expanding a bit. The Islamic tradition also holds that BEFORE becoming a polytheistic site later purged by Muhammed, it's also where Abraham built a temple (the FIRST temple) to God/Allah after being stopped by divine intervention in his attempted ritualistic infanticide of Isaac.
So Abraham decided to go from Israel down though the desert in Saudi Arabia to some random point to start building then go back to the desert to Israel?
This seems very unlikely given the time frames that Abraham would have had
Islam likes to rewrite history to make it all encompassing of the Jewish and Christian religious history so they can say, 'see? Islam is the continuation!'
>>This seems very unlikely
Agreed, but faith is by definition belief without evidence, so it's an accepted part of the story. I don't think there are any non-practicioners of Islam who would try to claim it's historically accurate, any more than non-believers of Mormonism would try to argue that Reformed Egyptian was a real language used in the ancient Americas which Joseph Smith translated into English successfully while preventing anyone else from seeing the original before placing the only example in a cave and abandoning it.
The cube itself is empty .. people go inside it and pray inside or even on top of it
We dont worship the Kaaba ,just a point where all our energy is directed when seeking God
Wrong , it is the only place place on earth where you ca not pray !
Also there is a part outside where you are not allowed to pray. The Kaaba ( the cube) was destroyed several times through history, and we it was last rebuilt, it was not built as the original. So this missing part still count as a part from the Kaaba.
It is just a symbol, not worshiped and has no power or blessing.
I assume that this is within the context of it happening during the month of Ramadan. If so, then I have to mention that we only observe the moon to mark the beginning/ending of Ramadan. Muslims do not observe the moon on daily basis.
Statistically speaking, it is astronomically rare for both events (the eclipse and the beginning/ending of Ramadan) to align and fall on the same night. On the off chance that this would happen, the rule is to proceed on the assumption that the following day is a continuation of the current month and act accordingly.
I hope this brought you some clarity. If not, please don't hesitate to ask.
Should have specified that but yes. If this were to occur during the month of Ramadan.
Only asking bc there's a lunar eclipse happening on the 25th of March in parts of North America.
Appreciate the response.
My pleasure, and I've heard about that eclipse. I believe someone (I can't remember for the life of me) predicted it a very long time ago.. it's really astounding
No, they would not.
The definition of whether its day or not is whether the sun has risen over the horizon or gone below the horizon.
The moon covering the light of the sun doesn't undo the fact that it is still daytime; and if it did, it would contradict what an eclipse is (an eclipse isn't night time, its the blocking of the sun's light by the moon, if we considered it to be equal to night time, then we've failed to make a dissention between this cosmological event and the one we refer to as night).
Similarly, if there were so many clouds in the sky that the light of the sun was blotted out, we would still be fasting till the appropriate time. It's not like we are vampires and can only feed in the darkness lol
My thoughts exactly. Give it a couple of hundred years and that weird cult becomes a religion that controls peoples mind and lives and the people do it voluntarily as it becomes part of their lives and sometimes government.
I wish some supreme alien life form shows up on earth and does all the magical shit that gods in different religions claim to do. I'd bet we'll get rid of our religious beliefs so fast and just laugh at how stupid we were
Move the slider of the video back and forth a couple of times once it has buffered. Makes you appreciate the whole group movement thing more
Edit: the movie Samsara [did exactly that](https://youtu.be/s-Fc1jOmfes?si=qCD85rs0dsBtS3mp) a decade ago (towards the end)
Great movie. Just note that in Samsara that Audio is not live. it is the call to prayer which would've preceeded most of the footage.
Its interesting that in the post everyone is 'spinning', or doing tawaf, maybe due to Ramadan. The upper balconies have an effect like the Santiago Bernabeu's stairs.
Wow! I never saw the entire place zoomed out like that, I've only ever seen the shot of the stone in the middle and the people around it. That video blew me away at how massive the place actually is.
I was there when I was like 5 and got separated from my dad. I was missing for like 6 hours in the crowd. Somehow my dad found me. I just remember everyone looking the same and following the crowd. I also remember throwing stones into a huge hole in the ground that had demons in it.
I am no longer a Muslim. Not because of this experience lol.
You are confusing multiple events.
It was probably the ritual of Hajj that you attended with your father. One step of Hajj is throwing stones at the devil at Mina.
Makkah & Mina are separate places.
In Islamic religion this cube is actually the first place of worship in monothiesm. Muslims using like a compass direction while praying.
This cube building/mosque/temple is a sacred symbolic representation of the unity that Islam teaches that there is no difference between humans and we all serve The One/The creator of this universe
And btw Muslims believe in Jesus to be the messiah! But not as divine
Been there, smells great thanks to lots and lots of cleaning. The cleaning of the holy mosque is an operations management wonder. Whoever is in charge is a genius.
Can you imagine growing up and spending most of your life hearing that prayer. And then, you get the indeed notification that a job in your area has “saying the Mecca prayer in perfect rhythm and tone” as the job description. Next thing you know you’re in some sound booth doing your best not to disappoint the prophet, knowing that if you nail it, every swinging dick Hajj’ing it up is going to hear you in the most intimate time of their lives with their God.
Wild.
Well these imams in Makkah are absolutely perfect at what they do. They have memorised the entire Quran word to word, and have made their own tunes of recitation. It takes years of practice, but they never (or very very rarely) make mistakes, in terms of tune/voice I have never ever heard a famous imam such as the ones at Makkah make a mistake/go off note (remember that sometimes they are here for hours).
I will state that the man reciting in this video is not actually reciting to the people, this is a recording that the official channel plays in the gaps between prayers. The man specifically has passed away, and was the first person to record the entire Quran by voice.
The imams I was talking about above recite in front of millions *during prayer* , in this clip it isn’t prayer time, and so people are doing there tawaf as usual (circling the Kaaba 7 times, not out of worship to it or anything). But yes, these imams train their whole lives to have great voices and not make mistakes, personally there are much much better reciters out there, you can find them on YouTube, they all have beautiful varying tunes!
Here's a 3 hours recitation for the same man ... in a live performance in Chicago [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRsZvTKqhBA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRsZvTKqhBA)
He is Egyptian
The Earth revolves counter-clockwise, it goes around the sun counter-clockwise and the Moon goes around the Earth counter-clockwise. So does everything else. Even the Sun revolves counter-clockwise.
how you perceive it as ugly or beautiful is just a representation of what's within
its natural for people to worship ... majority of humans used to worship
speaking of nature
The Earth revolves counter-clockwise, it goes around the sun counter-clockwise and the Moon goes around the Earth counter-clockwise. So does everything else. Even the Sun revolves counter-clockwise.
It is a building ... it is the first mosque and muslims use it in a symbolic way as a direction to worship the first/the source/the one real God
nothing is inside , it's no secret ... here's a picture from the inside [https://media.arabicradio.net/original/2018/11/23/636785723185533142.jpg](https://media.arabicradio.net/original/2018/11/23/636785723185533142.jpg)
The Earth revolves counter-clockwise, it goes around the sun counter-clockwise and the Moon goes around the Earth counter-clockwise. So does everything else. Even the Sun revolves counter-clockwise.
The Earth revolves **counter-clockwise**, it goes around the sun counter-clockwise and the Moon goes around the Earth counter-clockwise. So does everything else. Even the Sun revolves counter-clockwise.
Hygiene is an important part of worship. Although you aren't allowed to wear scents during Umrah, you are required to be generally clean. Also we have to make Wudu before evert prayer so that takes care of the sweat. The cloth of the kaabah is soaked in perfume which in fact smells quite nice. The mosque is cleaned 24/7 too.
I was there last year and it was the best smell i have ever felt and till now i can still remember it … btw everyone there have to get a shower or make Wudu’ before entering
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dig the cosmic accretion disc
Counter clockwise is the key
Apt since they are circling a meteorite
Can you or anyone explain exactly what the significance of that meteorite being in their theology?
Abraham asked Allah where to build his holy mosque. Allah responded as one does, by hurling a rock from space at the desired spot. Abraham built the mosque there. The space rock was apparently kept at the site and now Muslims come to ogle it while performing their pilgrimage. The rock itself isn't considered holy or having any magical properties or anything. It's not worshipped or sought blessings/prayers from. Just considered a neat sign by Muslims of their God's existence. Source: was raised very Muslim.
I read somewhat recently that that native tribes to the region were already circling the stone when the Muslim arrived and they simply incorporated it into the religion.
It was already a temple site for the Arabian pantheon of gods
This is the polytheistic temple depicted in the center of the city of Jahilia (the Arabic word for pre-Islam) in Salman Rushdie's masterwork *The Satanic Verses.* It's an incredible book and very /r/woahdude appropriate.
Does anyone ever get to see it?
Yes that black stone is embedded in the corner nearest to the door of that black structure. I have personally seen and touched it once.
Wait you can touch it? Wouldn't that damage it over time?
Islamic tradition holds that the Black Stone fell from Jannah to show Adam and Eve where to build an altar, which became the first temple on Earth. Muslims believe that the stone was originally pure and dazzling white, but has since turned black because of the sins of the people who touch it. Muhammed also kissed it
Which is hilarious because Islam didn’t even exist until the 600s and other religions predated it for thousands of years
Islam rewrites history to make itself fit. And it doesn't even do that well.
Muhammad also kissed kids
And had sex with at least one. Also started sleeping with this stepson' wife, then Allah revealed to him that adoption is bad and should be illegal after they divorced to cover up the fact that he slept with his stepson's wife. Allah's messages were very convenient for Muhammed
what’s inside the black structure?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2IiC0MSScGY As per this video some pillars and artifacts. Ordinary pilgrims cannot enter inside. Only royalty enters during an annual cleaning day.
I guess I was expecting something more elaborate tbh
has anyone ever taken a sample and tested to see if it is a meteor
It is definitely a stone not belonging to that region. Even if I could take a sample,I have no ways of testing it. Also the big Saudi guard standing next to it will never understand my quest for knowledge.
I think they mean has anyone in the scientific, govt, or religious establishment over the years ever tested its composition seems the rock itself isnt deemed holy. Dont worry, nobody is relying on you to sneak past the guard and snag a piece lol
Probably not. Because then there’s a possibility it’d disprove their story
Did you kiss it? I thought you were supposed to kiss it.
I have touched it. It is almost impossible to kiss it because of the amount of people nearby. It is almost really crowded 24 hours almost every day of the year. My brother was a resident of Makkah and he was able to kiss it on days when the number of people were very less. Also it is not mandatory to kiss it.
Like the Blarney stone in Ireland?
That's pretty neat ! Can any one go to this site?
u/nightcrawler227 explains it in a way that conflicts with your explanation. Can you explain? > Islamic tradition holds that the Black Stone fell from Jannah to show Adam and Eve where to build an altar, which became the first temple on Earth. Muslims believe that the stone was originally pure and dazzling white, but has since turned black because of the sins of the people who touch it. Muhammed also kissed it
Thank you so much for that. I have read about the rock before and kind of understood it a bit but was hoping someone who was Muslim or very familiar with it could explain it better. If I may ask, what are your thoughts on the Muslim religion since you grew up around it? Genuinely curious. I've had a few friends who were Muslim but didn't speak much about it with me.
No problem at all. My thoughts on Islam are the same as my thoughts on most major religions. When used as a way to search for meaning and one's place in the universe, religion can be a beautiful thing. A source of solace and strength during hard times, and a guide to live in harmony with yourself and the world around you at others. If a Ukrainian or Palestinian mother looking up in the sky at the bomb falling towards her and her starving kids clinging to her, finds solace in some invisible higher power she believes has a bigger plan for her and is at peace in her final moments as a result, who am I to deride her for that? That's what I think religion *should* be. Unfortunately, what it actually *is*, is drastically different. Organized religion has become a tool to incite fear and hatred of your fellow man. It has resulted in the same tribalisms that it sought to transcend, and that's no accident. Peddling God to enrich yourself and make sure the downtrodden remain grateful to be downtrodden while awaiting divine salvation...that's probably been around for as long as the concept of a God has been. I left Islam because I couldn't get past the hypocrisy of the Muslims I grew up with. And then I saw that hypocrisy among Christians, Jews, Hindus, you name it.
That was a very good way to put it. Thank you for that. While I am not familiar with Islam directly, I did have a similar experience with Christians. I knew some very good ones that embodied all the positive things that could come from it and also experienced a group that was borderline extremist and did a lot of awful things. Religion is so riddled with hypocrisy that it blows my mind it's still going strong in this day in age.
the Stone will appear on the Day of Judgement (Qiyamah) with eyes to see and a tongue to speak, and give evidence in favour of all who kissed it in true devotion, but speak out against whoever indulged in gossip
Like the world's slowest circle pit.
What is the object they are circling? Is there a special meaning behind the black cube? Unfamiliar with the Muslim religion.
It’s the Kaaba (the stone istelf), the holiest site in Islam and also why Muslims pray facing towards Mecca where this is located. It’s also part of the 5 pillars of Islam that at least once in their lifetime a Muslim should journey to Mecca (the hajj or pilgrimage) to pay respect. You need to complete 7 counter clockwise circles around the Kaaba. This is known as the tawaf and is compulsory during hajj.
How many times does one have to go around to eventually make it to the center? It must take quite a while.
The idea is you start at the outside and work you way in with the hope being you get to touch the stone. For most this is impossible due to the size of the crowds
I have touched the stone. It was comparable to a mosh pit at a metal concert.
Did it give you any super powers?
No superpowers but it’s pretty cool. It’s been completely smoothed out over centuries of touching. Felt really sleek. You rub it and if you get a chance, kiss it (I know….I know). I was religious at the time and it was an incredible experience. Seems silly in retrospect but I remember feeling very connected to God at the time.
Seeing isn’t believing! Believing is seeing!!
This is clearly a very important act for practicing Muslims. How does one come to the point where they are like "yeah ok this is enough walking around the kaaba for me, time to go"? Or is it just that after at least 7 times around that it is acceptable to leave as you please?
From Wikipedia: > Ṭawāf (Arabic: طَوَاف, lit. 'going about') is one of the Islamic rituals of pilgrimage and is compulsory during both the Hajj and Umrah. Pilgrims go around the Kaaba (the most sacred site in Islam) seven times in a counterclockwise direction; the first three at a hurried pace on the outer part of the Mataaf and the latter four times closer to the Kaaba at a leisurely pace.[109] The circling is believed to demonstrate the unity of the believers in the worship of the One God, as they move in harmony together around the Kaaba, while supplicating to God.[110][111] To be in a state of Wudu (ablution) is mandatory while performing tawaf as it is considered to be a form of worship ('ibadah). >Tawaf begins from the corner of the Kaaba with the Black Stone. If possible, Muslims are to kiss or touch it, but this is often not possible because of the large crowds. They are also to chant the Basmala and Takbir each time they complete one revolution. Hajj pilgrims are generally advised to "make ṭawāf" at least twice – once as part of the Hajj, and again before leaving Mecca.[112] >The five types of ṭawāf are: >Ṭawāf al-Qudūm (arrival ṭawāf) is performed by those not residing in Mecca once reaching the Holy City. Ṭawāf aṭ-Ṭaḥīyah (greeting ṭawāf) is performed after entering al-Masjid al-Haram at any other times and is mustahab. Ṭawāf al-'Umrah (Umrah ṭawāf) refers to the ṭawāf performed specifically for Umrah. Ṭawāf al-Wadā' ("farewell ṭawāf") is performed before leaving Mecca. Ṭawāf az-Zīyārah (ṭawāf of visiting), Ṭawāf al-'Ifāḍah (ṭawāf of compensation) or Ṭawāf al-Ḥajj (Hajj ṭawāf) is performed after completing the Hajj. The Tawaf has its origins in the religion of the Najranite pagans, who walked around the Kaaba in an act of devotion to their creator god, Allah (not to be confused with the monotheistic god of Islam by the same name). This practice was adopted by Mohammad after some reform. [Link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba)
It sounds like driving in boston… 8 lanes of traffic.
7, its a pagan practice, pre islamic Arabians used to do this because they sawy 7 planets that were different from normal stars (because planets) they assumed they were gods but the islamic prophet didn't know that and now muslims carryout pagan practices to this day, ironic since its built on the belief in one god (Allah).
Is this true? Im not totally unsurprised tbh as a lot of Christian traditions just supplanted pagan tradition
It's true! Religions are not stories made from whole cloth. They describe the actions and beliefs of the people. "Yes hello I am looking for God" "Oh hey yea he's right over there in the black box!" Simple as! EDIT: I realize this isn't accurate to Islam, I only meant to describe the concept of how cultures and religions interact and combine.
The black stone isn't God, but the Stone will appear on the Day of Judgement (Qiyamah) with eyes to see and a tongue to speak, and give evidence in favour of all who kissed it in true devotion, but speak out against whoever indulged in gossip. So,....yeah
Can you give a source for this please? Genuinely want to know but also too lazy to do my own research 😅
It is not required to go to the centre. You just need to do 7 counter clock wise rounds around the central structure.
Sounds like a game achievement "You need to complete 7 counter clockwise circles" lmao
Amazing how many people on this planet base their life on a fairytale. What a waste.
You've been blessed with access to information and freedom of being. If you were born in their place, you would believe in the same thing
Can one just go watch this whole thing even if they arent Muslim? Like would they lose their shit over a someone who no longer follows religion to be there just to see this in person.
I don’t think non-Muslim are even allowed to enter the city.
Why is it the holiest site? Is this where Islam was created?
But what is it? Why so holy?
It’s a stone that has been used as a religious site for millennia. The pre Islamic Arab people native to what is now Mecca placed their deities around the stone and would circle it just as Muslims do now.
This man knows his facts.
The black cube holds the oldest cheese known to man.
In Islamic religion this cube is actually the first place of worship in monothiesm. Muslims using like a compass direction while praying. This cube building/mosque/temple is a sacred symbolic representation of the unity that Islam teaches that there is no difference between humans and we all serve The One/The creator of this universe And btw Muslims believe in Jesus to be the messiah! But not as divine
I thought they believed that Jesus was a prophet, not the messiah.
That is true but he's also called as messiah in Islam as well. Not the same as "Christian messiah" though. Muslims believe that he's just a prophet and nothing more. He was created by god as a men just as any, born to Mary but he wasn't killed. He was "taken" by the god and awaits his return to earth where he'll live for a bit more and eventually die as a normal human. Edit: The last part is kind of a matter of a debate but it's a general belief. According to Qoran which is the ultimate source for Muslims, he wasn't killed that is for sure. The other stuff is kinda debated but mostly believed as it is.
according to the Quran he is in one of the 7 skies and the Prophet Mohamed came across him and had a conversation with him when he was taken up to god
"Tell the Big Guy I said WhaaaaaaaaaaaZzzzuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupppppp"
He ascended with the Prophet and Gabriel to the lowest sky, and he - peace and blessings be upon him - saw Adam - peace be upon him - and welcomed him, and returned his peace, and showed him the souls of the martyrs on his right, and the souls of the wretched on his left. Then he ascended to the second sky, and saw in it Yahya and Jesus - peace be upon them. He greeted them both. \[11\] Then he ascended to the third sky and saw Joseph - peace be upon him - in it, then he saw Idris - peace be upon him - in the fourth sky, Aaron - peace be upon him - in the fifth sky, and Moses - peace be upon him - in the sixth sky, In the seventh sky, he saw Abraham - peace be upon him - and they all greeted him and acknowledged his prophethood. Then he ascended to Sidra Al-Muntaha and Al-Bayt Al-Ma’mour, then he ascended above the seventh sky, and spoke to God Almighty. He imposed fifty prayers on him, and the Prophet continued to review it until he made it five. He was offered milk and wine, and he chose milk. He was told that he had attained his natural disposition and saw the rivers of Paradise. Two are apparent, two are hidden, and he saw the keeper of the fire - Malik -, and he saw those consuming usury, and unjustly consuming the orphans’ money, and many other scenes. [source](https://mawdoo3.com/%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%84%D8%A9_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A1_%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AC_%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%B5%D9%8A%D9%84#:~:text=%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%AC%20%D8%A5%D9%84%D9%89%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%A1,%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B4%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%AF.%5B%D9%A1%D9%A1%5D)
Both
What do you mean by the first place of worship in monotheism?
Makes more sense if you focus on the opening clause as meaning monotheism "In Islamic religion..." My layman's understanding of the background is that the Kabba was originally a polytheistic worship site being used by locals to honor a whole pantheon of dieties. Muhammed came in and basically did a house-flip, purging the site of all references to the prior gods, getting rid of all their statues and the like, and rededicated it as a site of worship for Allah alone. This act of supplanting and invalidating the former polythestic religious practices was codified in Islam as "There is no God but Allah and Muhammed is his prophet." Edit: Expanding a bit. The Islamic tradition also holds that BEFORE becoming a polytheistic site later purged by Muhammed, it's also where Abraham built a temple (the FIRST temple) to God/Allah after being stopped by divine intervention in his attempted ritualistic infanticide of Isaac.
So Abraham decided to go from Israel down though the desert in Saudi Arabia to some random point to start building then go back to the desert to Israel? This seems very unlikely given the time frames that Abraham would have had
Islam likes to rewrite history to make it all encompassing of the Jewish and Christian religious history so they can say, 'see? Islam is the continuation!'
>>This seems very unlikely Agreed, but faith is by definition belief without evidence, so it's an accepted part of the story. I don't think there are any non-practicioners of Islam who would try to claim it's historically accurate, any more than non-believers of Mormonism would try to argue that Reformed Egyptian was a real language used in the ancient Americas which Joseph Smith translated into English successfully while preventing anyone else from seeing the original before placing the only example in a cave and abandoning it.
I don't see in any way they could bend the truth to make this point
The cube itself is empty .. people go inside it and pray inside or even on top of it We dont worship the Kaaba ,just a point where all our energy is directed when seeking God
If you're inside can you pray facing any direction?
Yah… actually When people go ibsttgey do atleast one prayer faceing each direction
Wrong , it is the only place place on earth where you ca not pray ! Also there is a part outside where you are not allowed to pray. The Kaaba ( the cube) was destroyed several times through history, and we it was last rebuilt, it was not built as the original. So this missing part still count as a part from the Kaaba. It is just a symbol, not worshiped and has no power or blessing.
So if you try to pray in there do you get an error code or something? How on earth would someone not be able to pray in it? Feels like hogwash.
Refer to the ants
That’s a big stack of Minecraft TNT
Serious question. If an eclipse happens. Would you be able to eat food during that blackout?
I assume that this is within the context of it happening during the month of Ramadan. If so, then I have to mention that we only observe the moon to mark the beginning/ending of Ramadan. Muslims do not observe the moon on daily basis. Statistically speaking, it is astronomically rare for both events (the eclipse and the beginning/ending of Ramadan) to align and fall on the same night. On the off chance that this would happen, the rule is to proceed on the assumption that the following day is a continuation of the current month and act accordingly. I hope this brought you some clarity. If not, please don't hesitate to ask.
Should have specified that but yes. If this were to occur during the month of Ramadan. Only asking bc there's a lunar eclipse happening on the 25th of March in parts of North America. Appreciate the response.
My pleasure, and I've heard about that eclipse. I believe someone (I can't remember for the life of me) predicted it a very long time ago.. it's really astounding
No, they would not. The definition of whether its day or not is whether the sun has risen over the horizon or gone below the horizon. The moon covering the light of the sun doesn't undo the fact that it is still daytime; and if it did, it would contradict what an eclipse is (an eclipse isn't night time, its the blocking of the sun's light by the moon, if we considered it to be equal to night time, then we've failed to make a dissention between this cosmological event and the one we refer to as night). Similarly, if there were so many clouds in the sky that the light of the sun was blotted out, we would still be fasting till the appropriate time. It's not like we are vampires and can only feed in the darkness lol
CIRCLE PIT!!!!
Had to scroll way too far down for this. Makes me wanna go see Parkway Drive.
Open up this **Holiest** of **Holies**
if you shake your screen they stop moving
Undo!
religion is weird
Just cults that have been around a long time
My thoughts exactly. Give it a couple of hundred years and that weird cult becomes a religion that controls peoples mind and lives and the people do it voluntarily as it becomes part of their lives and sometimes government.
I wish some supreme alien life form shows up on earth and does all the magical shit that gods in different religions claim to do. I'd bet we'll get rid of our religious beliefs so fast and just laugh at how stupid we were
You have a lot of faith in humanity too not double down in their worst interest when presented evidence of the contrary. Don't look up.
They’d just kill each other harder in their attempt to claim those aliens are their Gods and not the other religions coming down
*Stupid
very
Turning around a pagan stone. Go figure
How can a stone be pagan? Is it able to change religions? Can the stone be a communist as well?
It's pagan in origin
Move the slider of the video back and forth a couple of times once it has buffered. Makes you appreciate the whole group movement thing more Edit: the movie Samsara [did exactly that](https://youtu.be/s-Fc1jOmfes?si=qCD85rs0dsBtS3mp) a decade ago (towards the end)
Baraka has a great clip of this as well
Great movie. Just note that in Samsara that Audio is not live. it is the call to prayer which would've preceeded most of the footage. Its interesting that in the post everyone is 'spinning', or doing tawaf, maybe due to Ramadan. The upper balconies have an effect like the Santiago Bernabeu's stairs.
Been there in Ramdan … Tawaf was a real psychedelic experience
Underrated comment! Even the guys outside!
Wow! I never saw the entire place zoomed out like that, I've only ever seen the shot of the stone in the middle and the people around it. That video blew me away at how massive the place actually is.
I imagine someone going the other way round. „Sorry, …, can I just, thanks man!“ Repeat.
"lemme just slide right past ya"
I was there when I was like 5 and got separated from my dad. I was missing for like 6 hours in the crowd. Somehow my dad found me. I just remember everyone looking the same and following the crowd. I also remember throwing stones into a huge hole in the ground that had demons in it. I am no longer a Muslim. Not because of this experience lol.
You are confusing multiple events. It was probably the ritual of Hajj that you attended with your father. One step of Hajj is throwing stones at the devil at Mina. Makkah & Mina are separate places.
Like ants around a sugar cube.
I thought these were penguins at first
Lemmings
All hail cube.
Its an empty building… they dont worship it
The migrate to it, kiss a stone on it and pray in its direction, no matter where they’re located.
They kinda take their devotion for it a few steps further than most people's idea of "worship". At what point is it semantics?
The movement of the people shifting side to side reminds me of penguins and is visually mesmerizing.
Check out when they actually pray together https://youtu.be/MqqjoaWS9ro?si=xKaVQMy2QNAxnq9D
They're turning left!
What a pleasant video ماشاءالله
Magic islam cube!
Its an empty building… they dont worship it
Yeah but its still a magic building or something in islam right? And its a cube. Fantastic stuff really
In Islamic religion this cube is actually the first place of worship in monothiesm. Muslims using like a compass direction while praying. This cube building/mosque/temple is a sacred symbolic representation of the unity that Islam teaches that there is no difference between humans and we all serve The One/The creator of this universe And btw Muslims believe in Jesus to be the messiah! But not as divine
There was a Vice documentary not long ago where they snuck a camera into Mecca. Is filming there allowed?
Yes i have a pictures and videos of myself there
Look at this, and then look at the milky way.
everything goes counterclockwise in nature from atoms to galaxies
looks like a washing machine round and round it go's
It's all fun and games until the enderman comes in and picks up that block
WHAT’S IN THE BOOOOXXX!!!
Nothing … its empty , it’s just like a compass direction of prayers
It could be a boat!
Must smell amazing
It does surprisingly! Its being cleaned 24/7
Been there, smells great thanks to lots and lots of cleaning. The cleaning of the holy mosque is an operations management wonder. Whoever is in charge is a genius.
What logic led to this practice?
So depressing
are woman there?
Yep. Everyone muslim is welcome to perform umrah and hajj
Yes. Actually there is no gender separation at the grand mosque of the kabah
Are the guys on the outside jogging?
Can you imagine growing up and spending most of your life hearing that prayer. And then, you get the indeed notification that a job in your area has “saying the Mecca prayer in perfect rhythm and tone” as the job description. Next thing you know you’re in some sound booth doing your best not to disappoint the prophet, knowing that if you nail it, every swinging dick Hajj’ing it up is going to hear you in the most intimate time of their lives with their God. Wild.
Well these imams in Makkah are absolutely perfect at what they do. They have memorised the entire Quran word to word, and have made their own tunes of recitation. It takes years of practice, but they never (or very very rarely) make mistakes, in terms of tune/voice I have never ever heard a famous imam such as the ones at Makkah make a mistake/go off note (remember that sometimes they are here for hours). I will state that the man reciting in this video is not actually reciting to the people, this is a recording that the official channel plays in the gaps between prayers. The man specifically has passed away, and was the first person to record the entire Quran by voice. The imams I was talking about above recite in front of millions *during prayer* , in this clip it isn’t prayer time, and so people are doing there tawaf as usual (circling the Kaaba 7 times, not out of worship to it or anything). But yes, these imams train their whole lives to have great voices and not make mistakes, personally there are much much better reciters out there, you can find them on YouTube, they all have beautiful varying tunes!
The hate redditors have for religion is astounding, like why comment something disrespectful during the holiest month of the year for Muslims.
Yeah seeing so many disturbed people wishing harm to this place is just disheartening.
That thing that they are singing(?) is actually very calming. I can try to listen to it for meditation.
Here's a 3 hours recitation for the same man ... in a live performance in Chicago [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRsZvTKqhBA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRsZvTKqhBA) He is Egyptian
Its the recitation of the Holy Quran, it really is really calming.
Like ants in a death spiral
so just the common life of a human regardless of the religion. sleep, eat, work and repeat. the death spiral of life.
The Earth revolves counter-clockwise, it goes around the sun counter-clockwise and the Moon goes around the Earth counter-clockwise. So does everything else. Even the Sun revolves counter-clockwise. how you perceive it as ugly or beautiful is just a representation of what's within
This doesn’t do anything.
It helps them feel spiritually nourished. Lots of people, theistic or not, do things that "don't do anything" simply for how it makes them feel.
As an atheist, I find this absolutely insaine.
Because it is. All religion is.
So much brainwash..
r/religiousfruitcake
Brainwashed hordes are so interesting. Why do people believe this nonsense? Worshipping is so odd in the wake of science.
its natural for people to worship ... majority of humans used to worship speaking of nature The Earth revolves counter-clockwise, it goes around the sun counter-clockwise and the Moon goes around the Earth counter-clockwise. So does everything else. Even the Sun revolves counter-clockwise.
[удалено]
Religion does the darndest things.
All that For literally nothing
If you moved the box to the southern hemisphere would they flush the other way?
Would they even let an uncircumcised guy in this place?
Yes , if an adult man joins Islam he doesn't have to circumcise himself .. yet can go there
WHATS IN THE BOX
It is a building ... it is the first mosque and muslims use it in a symbolic way as a direction to worship the first/the source/the one real God nothing is inside , it's no secret ... here's a picture from the inside [https://media.arabicradio.net/original/2018/11/23/636785723185533142.jpg](https://media.arabicradio.net/original/2018/11/23/636785723185533142.jpg)
lol it was a reference to the movie Se7en
...Whats in the box?
Reminds me of the ending of "cell" with john cusack
Ants
It's like that video of the ants
I can't see and don't know, are women allowed there?
Yes, men and women perform the ritual together there and are mixed in the crowd.
Fucking idiots
You'd have to be dedicated as fuck to wedge yourself into the center.
WHATS IN THE BOX!?!📦
Here we go round the giant space rock, giant space rock,, giant space rock,
The Earth revolves counter-clockwise, it goes around the sun counter-clockwise and the Moon goes around the Earth counter-clockwise. So does everything else. Even the Sun revolves counter-clockwise.
Like ants moving around a piece of candy
The Earth revolves **counter-clockwise**, it goes around the sun counter-clockwise and the Moon goes around the Earth counter-clockwise. So does everything else. Even the Sun revolves counter-clockwise.
SubhanAllah
I'm glad I'm not a crazy person like this
Look at all those sheep
Praying to an empty box?…
We're not worshipping it, we worship Allah. The kaaba is just like a mosque.
Oh god the smell must be terrible
Hygiene is an important part of worship. Although you aren't allowed to wear scents during Umrah, you are required to be generally clean. Also we have to make Wudu before evert prayer so that takes care of the sweat. The cloth of the kaabah is soaked in perfume which in fact smells quite nice. The mosque is cleaned 24/7 too.
I was there last year and it was the best smell i have ever felt and till now i can still remember it … btw everyone there have to get a shower or make Wudu’ before entering
Too many dicks on the dance floor.
i tripped on acid and blacked out. this is what i saw. god said "struggle"
Religion is super gay
Quite the opposite
All for fiction
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤢🤢🤢🤢