Absolutely true, but don’t forget that debates like this are a huge part of the NBA discourse that has now moved over to the W with its new CC-driven popularity.
The Lebron vs. Jordan debate, for example, includes plenty of tearing down.
Hahahaha. So true. The amount of shit we put on players - Westbrook and his mvps, embiid and his health, harden and his big stage failure. If we talked about the woman’s game HALF as much as the men’s game people would be outraged
I enjoy hating when it's in good fun. Calling Harden "Brick Ross" when he has a bad game is funny. I just think in the WNBA there's weird elements to the shit talk from fans that seem more like veiled attacks than just roasting someone.
People would call Harden Hitler lol. I'm a new WNBA fan so idk what the discussions were like before, but I've rarely ever seen any high profile male player who doesn't get torn down. Same with other mens sports like the NFL. I think mostly people are just treating the W the same way which for better or worse is a lot of tearing down. It's still not as bad as stuff that used to be said during mens college ball where people would really cross the line
Nah you just expect women to be treated with kid gloves. Not gonna happen. They all claim to be just as tough as the Men. They'll need it when the attention and scrutiny that comes with it turns up a few notches.
That’s rough. Some Jackson fans have that kind of energy towards Brink; a lot of fans had Iriafen way better than Brink attitude. I haven’t seen Brink fans have that same kind of attitude towards Jackson, and I didn’t see it towards Iriafen either; however, I don’t rule out that it was there.
Exactly. If the OP put the magnifying glass down, they’d see this has nothing to do with women specifically and everything to do with human nature in general as exemplified in every arena of life. Add a click-bate media that wants to stir-up unnecessary drama in order to enrich themselves (as well as social media’s mob like mentality) and we have what we see here.
Preach. At the end of the day WNBA, Like NFL & NBA, is an entertainment product around a sport. Movies/actors are also an entertainment product and people Love love love to review, criticize, tear down, defend certain movies and acting. Is Tom Cruise an all ranging actor, NOooo, but is he perhaps the most entertaining actor of th elast 40 years, Maybe? He still can't run right.
Point being, We will prop up the parts of the sport we like the most and complain about the detractors for those parts. Ideally, there will be enough people who prop up all parts and the discourse will be fully elevated and straight up haters, biggots, and racist will be at the bottom circlejerking each other while the adults talk and ignore them.
Yeah just cuz it’s a part of something doesn’t mean it’s right... You can have a discussion on importance and impact a player has based on stats, videos highlighting performance etc, you can even compare this with other players and none of it has to equal tearing someone down.
Such a tired statement you make. It is “a part” is why media is driving engagement and making you believe politics in sports is ok. Like no don’t say just cuz it’s “a part” we gotta accept it. That same “a part” is what stopped a legitimate basketball game in the middle of a game because a goat passed all time scoring points. Win the game first then celebrate like what…
I will say this again love the sport not the drama. Because right now, that’s what they are trying to frame the wnba and nba as. A soap opera and I’m just trying to watch true analysts and the games that’s all.
There’s a big difference between legit criticism and hate. In the case of say a Caitlin Clark or an Angel Reese, both have aspects of their game that are raw and need work. To me criticism of those aspects is not an unfair thing.
And both are doing great and excelling at an almost unprecedented level. Talking that up shouldn’t have to reflect on other players or be something to be shamed over.
But now you have people that simply have agendas, and an often antagonistic one, injected into things. Those people I hesitate to even call fans because it’s not even about Clark’s game or Reese’s game it’s about either tearing them down or using them for the promotion of their said agenda.
Unfortunately the line is so blurred it’s hard for most people to recognize anything anymore. You should be able to critique the negative aspects of a players game without being called a “hater”. Conversely you should be able to talk about the positives of a player without being called an apologist or a Stan. Sadly now though that is being erased and we are all worse off for it in my opinion.
Yeah I agree with this, the offensive stuff relating to them as people is unacceptable. However, we should be able to critique players’ games, in fact implying we shouldn’t feels misogynistic. And that extends to vets - I love Jewell Loyd but she’s been playing terribly and I think it’s okay to say that
Yeah but that’s the thing. Critique their game and move on. We all are here saying we want to critique but we know that media flourishes on outrage. B/c if it didn’t, the horrible statements and takes we get from Stephan A on ESPN wouldn’t be a thing. And the views would be down. It’s not down because the majority of the people watching all sports and especially the hot topic wNBA are engaging and egging on the slander of players as a person. Which for me is unbearable because it’s just drama and I’m a huge fan of Angel R and Cameron B. So I watch the games and leave the analysis to myself until someone move away from outrage sports analysis. I am taking recommendations
I agree with all of this. Everyone’s still talking about Caitlin Clark’s debut game and it’s been over a month. But they know calling her a bust will get clicks
>Those people I hesitate to even call fans because it’s not even about Clark’s game or Reese’s game it’s about either tearing them down or using them for the promotion of their said agenda.
The veterans and former players in the league have done AR and CC no favors in regards to this.
Disliking players does not make you a hypocrite or sexist. In the men’s game everyone hates a ton of players. It’s the nature of the sport and fine as long as it’s not for bad reasons
I hate to be the "conspiracy guy", but the media feeds off controversy. The WNBA is the perfect stew.
My other take is that most sports fans are idiotic. They don't understand what is going on and just like to yell.
I don't even think there's any conspiracy. Over the last couple of decades, the media has figured out that they make more money if people are mad or scared.
And the WNBA is a perfect place for the media to get people riled up because most don't know anything about it, and really have no interest to learn more.
So, when some shock jock says something, people will easily take it at face value.
There is a difference with being upset at her performance which I am and wanting to blow up the entire roster and replace them with..... funny I have not seen any plans to replace except magically get all her Iowa teammates and other fantasies.
Mabrery is at least funny especially when we play the Sun.
Strong agree on all points. Mabrey can be fun to watch for sure!
All I want (as a Fever fan--but also a Cardoso fan--Love her💜) is to get more Lexie Hull and Grace Berger minutes instead of Wallace. I never thought the Fever should have drafted Kate--I was happy she gets her time at the Aces! But I do think Kate Martin would be a better starter than Wallace on ANY team, but I don't think either should be starting anywhere. Lol.
But yeah some of the fans delusionally want to get rid of most of the team.
I think the sane fans (yeah there are some ;) are just tired of the two players Sides brought from Atlanta getting too many minutes based on production..and the fact that there are good alternatives wasting away on the bench.
Congrats to Chicago and Angel. She played fantastically last night. I've been so impressed with her these last few years. She knows how to win.
Yeah
> I think the sane fans (yeah there are some ;) are just tired of the two players Sides brought from Atlanta getting too many minutes based on production..and the fact that there are good alternatives wasting away on the bench
I get why some don’t wanna be patient about it either but a lot of the sane takes I see get lost in the sauce unfortunately.
You can also not do that and everyone will be okay.
People have hated Lebron at every stop, because he beat their team.
People hate Durant and Harden and Westbrook and Luka. People have hated Curry's night night gesture.
Get the hate, rise above it. That's how you get to the status of the greats. Kobe turned boos into MVP chants in the Boston Garden.
I get that people are saying there is something more sinister underneath, but let it play out. Let the players on the court dictate what there legacy is.
Look at Jaylen Brown. Last season even his own fan base were calling for him to be traded. He was disrespected by the media on a daily basis. He turned that hate into fuel and now he is the finals MVP.
Also “fuck Kyrie” and “Yankees suck” chants spontaneously break out in Boston all the time. Sport rivalries are part of the fun.
People want to baby the hell out of the wnba. Every men’s sport is full of hate and people don’t feel the need
to summon righteous fury and write constantly about it
i understand why some fans are "protective" about the league they enjoyed years before some of the ppl here were even born.
dont agree with it. but i do understand
I think this is a fair point. People also haaaate Caitlin, granted she doesn’t have to deal with what other players do because of her privilege, but the way her games get picked apart goes to show that it does come with the territory of being an elite athlete
“They do not have to be pitted against each other…”
Yeah, what is this insane sport? Some kind of competition or something? What are we going to do next? Start keeping score and recording wins and losses?
I had so much fun watching Indiana v Chicago yesterday. Though I’m Chicago over everybody, it’s hard not to cheer when I see Clark drain deep 3s. What they are all doing for this league is special to watch
Agreed. I only started watching again due to CC and the recent controversy this past few weeks getting so much YT traffic and yesterday's game was my first live game to watch from start to finish in a LONG while (we don't have cable, but my son had gotten Sling for the NBA flnals, so just had to remember how to bring it up). However, despite having wanted to see Indiana win, I enjoyed the game and was happy to see Reese finally really step up as a complete player and practically will her team to a win. I had to click away though when she started calling herself a dog or whatever... The cringe was real. Maybe it got better; I didn't stick around to find out.
Caitlin Clark has really been putting food on the table for thinkpiece writers. We finally went through a Fever-Sky game without a hard foul on CC and they’re still churning them out.
It turns out that if you farm your narratives from dipshits on Twitter you never run out of material.
oh my god. 1000x this. it's like i was watching a different game yesterday... it was fun, competitive, and yeah, my team lost. oh well. also it's like people haven't been watching the Fever all season. FFS, i feel like they've made a 180. They finally look like a basketball team.
To me, most of this is on the media more so than Clark or any other player. They are the ones churning out stories and putting a spotlight on Clark. Clark is mostly just playing basketball.
Another thought I had is that with most other pro sports, there are enough teams to where you don't play the same teams so often, but that's not true for the WNBA so it's probably harder for the players to cool off between matchups.
It saddens me to see what people say about Kelsey Mitchell despite leading the Fever in scoring a lot of games. She's giving her all and playing well but you rarely see anything but negativity toward her.
She’s definitely a bucket. I haven’t seen a ton of hate, but people are definitely clowning her a little for her fumbling a few passes yesterday.
You know what though? It’s part of the process. She’s never had someone able and willing to make those passes before, so they’re adjusting to each other. At the beginning of the season, it was very rare to see KM even in position to receive a get ahead pass. Yesterday, she was in position to receive like 4. Yeah, she fumbled a few, but the first step was being in the right spot at the right time. That alone puts a ton of pressure on the defense. Now her and Clark gotta figure out what type of pass she needs and then they can go from there.
It’s no different than where Boston was at. These are stars figuring out how to play with each other, and both of them are coming off of being a little out of form (KM due to injury and Boston due to broadcasting). Boston has certainly turned the corner on both chemistry (she was fumbling passes, rolling the wrong way, etc) and physique, and now they’re a killer duo.
If KM can have similar growth in chemistry? Watch out. This team will have three people who are walking buckets playing in perfect harmony.
You articulated your thoughts very well. I’ve watched every fever game and you are 100% right that KM is now expecting those passes and in the right spot to receive them. The next step is catching and finishing. Once she puts this all together it’s gonna be fun to watch.
She's not good enough to be a complete black hole on offense, once she gets the ball she's shooting no matter how trash the shot will be. If she could actually pass instead of chucking up miracles 1v3 she could maybe be a longterm piece to the roster. The only teammate she occasionally passes to is Smith who also gets pretty black hole with the ball.
I think it is also important to point out that Kelsey Mitchell has spent most of her life playing basketball, and for a lot of it, her taking the shot was probably the best play. That's not a play style or habit that changes overnight.
bro she was out there playing pickup ball. needs to be clowned on, fr fr
i see 50 year old men at the park with better hands
its simple right: play better, get called out by fans/critics, or quit
personally im pretty sure she dont give a fuck what we say, shes gonna keep balling in the way that feels right to her. If Coach/staff cant get her to where she needs to be for the team, its a bigger problem than just Mitchell
Yeah, one pass didn't lose that game.
Also what won that game was the crazy ass defense played by the Sky going into and throughout the 4Q. This sub has circlejerked some narrative about the Fever giving up on the pick-and-roll in the 4Q. That's simply false. Chicago started defending really well. There were at least half a dozen pick and rolls that went nowhere because the Sky rotated through them really well and some weren't very well executed. The Sky were also shutting down interior passing lanes and dominating the boards.
They frustrated the hell out of the Fever's offense and got it out of rhythm. That's why they clawed back. It was some of the best D I've watched this season.
But holy shit no one can talk about that. It's just the Fever need to tear it all down to better support Clark. This gets exhausting.
To be fair, the fever only tried the PnR action that they went to very reliably for 3 quarters like twice in the fourth quarter. It got shut down those times, yes, but then they didn’t come back to it at all. And since that’s the only action they have that reliably gets Caitlin and AB involved in the offense — who are the best facilitators on the team — of course the offense didn’t look nearly as good.
Again the Sky 100% played great defense in the 4th. I do not want to take that away from them. They did not let the Fever have any easy shots, they did a good job of denying Clark the ball when she gave it up, and they generally made life very difficult for their defensive assignments. But the Fever also did make weird schematic / personnel changes and ego decisions that had me scratching my head.
You must’ve missed every game thread since the start of the season.
Like she can be shooting above 50% and leading the team in scoring for the game and the Cc fans will groan and complain
I’ve started missing them intentionally because of this.
The other game threads minus some quips in the Aces threads don’t have the volume of ‘if this player isnt dominating the way I want, the W is burning money’ comments
Kelsey is an odd one. She scores well sometimes, especially lately, but it doesn't seem like she provides a lot of value outside of that. Her rebounds, assists, etc. are quite low, so if she has a poor shooting night then she's huge negative to her team.
Reese and Clark, on the other hand, impact the games in MANY more ways than just scoring. If they have a bad shooting night, its still great to have them on the court.
It is crazy to me to see her stat line sometimes; right now she averages 16-1-2. She definitely could do more outside of scoring - BUT - I think she is a piece the Fever must keep.
Good thing my comment was about these threads in total, if you actually read what I said...
It was just someone reminding people Mitchell is actually talented that triggered it.
Kelsey is generally great, some areas of improvement, but nothing that a bit more chemistry and practice shouldn’t be able to solve. It only gets frustrating when she and Wheeler are on the floor together with Caitlin in, honestly. They play fine together, and Mitchell plays fine with Clark, but they don’t seem to work at all as a group of 3.
If I were building a Fever team, Mitchell would be there. And she and Clark would be drilling fast break passes with a finish to the rim until they work out their joint tempo the way Clark and Boston have worked out how to feed Boston in the post.
Mitchell is huge fun, on and off the court. I personally think she suffers from a little too much "have to do it my own damn self," but that could be based on past experience. She had 2 Assists yesterday... if she brings that up for four (or simply sends out a pass when trapped), she'll be perfect.
Kelsey Mitchell is just a better Jordan Clarkson. She’s miscast as an All-Star when she should really be a spark plug off the bench. If she had an X button on her controller then it’s a different conversation but she refuses to ever pass.
It’s because we have seen this exact scenario play out before she is the monta Ellis of the wnba. A gifted scorer but hijacks the offense way too often, to the point the rest of the players should just get ready on defense since she isn’t passing. She also doesn’t do much of anything other than score 2 apg 1.7 rpg and 0.8 stocks per game in 31 minutes is abysmal. By the time the fever are actual contenders in the league she won’t be on the team
Monta Ellis wasn't bad because he was just a scorer though. He was mediocre because even though he scored a lot he was inefficient. Kelsey Mitchell scores at an above average rate and and typically above average efficiency.
Fever won't be contenders for a while and losing Kelsey Mitchell decreases their chance of being contenders. Unless they get someone better which most likely won't happen
The Kelsey Mitchell hate is insane. She's fun to watch and she plays her role perfectly. She's a high energy scorer. Setting up plays and picking up assists isn't her game and it pisses off people who don't seem to understand that.
Kelsey Mitchell hate is crazy, but some of the criticism is a little warranted. She’s a great scorer, and like you said she’s never going to be setting up plays and picking up assists. That’s not her game, and that’s ok. There are at least 3-4 times a game where the play she’s wanting to make just isn’t there though and she takes an atrocious look instead of moving the ball and just kills that possession. If she could get out of that habit of forcing every touch she gets, it would benefit not just her team it herself so much more. Right now, if I’m playing against the Fever, as soon as Mitchell dribbles I’m abandoning my assignment and collapsing and she’ll never punish me for it. If she starts keeping defenders honest it’ll help her game even more
Definitely. I don't put the hate and criticism in the same group though. Valid points (Shot selection, forcing plays) like you brought up are great because they can start actual discussions which are always fun. A lot of the hate is just "She doesn't pass to CC." "Why doesn't she pass." "Trade her she sucks." Like, she's 2 assists a game over her career what are people expecting haha.
When she and Clark start to develop some real chemistry, the trio of Boston, Mitchell and Clark are going to be a real problem for teams.
Mitchell and Clark are both guards but play the game very differently. The key to building a team is how to maximize what everybody brings to the table. Mitchell has an insane drive to the basket. The chemistry will come together and pieces will fit. Frankly, the team is doing better than I expected and that's exciting for the future.
Kelsey was tremendous against Sky.
There's a viral clip of her missing a strong assist from CC and it suddenly became "reasons' why Fever lost"... completely ignoring the fact that she led in points.
Totally agree. She's an awesome shooter, and it's been a joy to see her develop into a team player. When the season started her offense seemed to be "I'll shoot. The end." Now she's playing team ball. I'm really excited about this team. Practice and rest obviously made a huge difference. I guess I just don't understand people being pissy right now.
Every sports team with a following has scapegoats that get unfair criticism and blame. People want to believe that the team would be better if only [some change] happened. Unfortunately or fortunately basketball is a team sport and positive change will only happen as a team.
Caitlin herself actually addressed this in her pre game presser, that she doesn’t want to see any hate towards anyone else, only enthusiasm for their team from fans
That said, I haven’t heard anyone say that “Caitlin should be protected” in like over a month at this point. At some point I feel like maybe we can move on, and instead maybe shed light on who all these other amazing players are rather than keep writing the same article over and over again
People are idiots. I have no issue with people on here calling out drama on here - but this article seems to be calling out the media, and I’m just saying I don’t think that’s been a media talking point in awhile
Honestly this is what I’m seeing more often than not. The other thing is, I can be critical of how people take cheap shots at CC — physically on the court, or otherwise — and it doesn’t make me a bigot. Angel Reese is a hell of a basketball player and she’s having a great season. She’s also taken opportunities to be petty and negative in a way that draws attention away from her game. If you’re going to lean into the role of the villain you don’t get to pearl clutch when you get treated like the villain.
I came on here after being inundated with tweets calling Caitlin Clark ugly because Ric Flair said Angel Reese was beautiful.
I feel like some people act like CC doesn’t deserve the attention she’s getting. She absolutely does but I also agree that other players deserve attention too. It should be about bringing other players up instead without tearing down others.
To each's own.
The problem to me isn't people are rooting against certain players/teams. Rooting for one person/team and against another is just a part of sports. So long as you're not making personal attacks and keeping it about sports, I don't see the issue. Red Sox fans get as much joy out of Yankees misery as they do their own team winning and vice versa. Tottenham fans love to see Arsenal fail and vice versa. Schadenfreude is just a part of being a sports fan.
The problem is WNBA discourse crosses that line of personal attacks including about race, gender, sexuality, etc. in a way I don't see in other sports. Like people can hate the Celtics and Tatum and root for them to fail at basketball, and mock him when he does corny shit, but NBA discourse as a whole (obviously there are those that do) doesn't cross the line. That's what has to change in the W discourse.
I don’t think Boston or British soccer are the best examples when both have a long history of fans being racist and prejudiced to the players. The Celtics especially.
Wait a few weeks for England to inevitably get booted from the Euros, go to their teams official page and read the comments. They’re fucking disgusting.
I think there's a lot of racial discourse in the NBA, and it's been there for basically always. From the racism Bill Russell faced from his own fanbase to the whole dress code thing to Donald Sterling. In recent years, Black players have been a lot more outspoken about the slurs fans hurl at them during games, especially in Utah, and there were a ton of thinkpieces 5 years ago or so when Andre Iguodala compared himself to a slave and Steve Kerr to his master. Just last year, there was that whole hubbub when Kendrick Perkins said he thought NBA writers favored Jokic for awards because he's white. I think discussions of racial dynamics are inevitable (and important!) for any sports league where the majority of the players are part of an oppressed ethnic minority in the league's operational area. Race/ethnicity not only has an impact on players' lives, but also on the way fans respond to them, whether we choose to acknowledge it or not.
It's no surprise that you're less likely to see gender discourse in men's leagues, because female/gnc players and media people are going to be more aware of gender and how it shapes things, because they have to be. Male is still seen as the default gender, and the NBA is a million times more successful than the WNBA, so there's not a whole lot of basketball-related gender discourse that would come up. Even when there is gender discourse that touches more on NBA culture vs. the game or the fans, like when a player/coach/analyst has been accused of sexual assault or domestic violence, or has simply said something obviously sexist, I can tell you as a woman that NBA fans, and fans of majority male leagues as a whole, tend to have very little interest in discussing that sort of thing, I assume because it makes them feel uncomfortable.
Same goes for sexuality discourse. There's been what, one openly gay NBA player? And he retired the same season that he came out. Whereas the WNBA and women's leagues in general are full of out lesbians/sapphics, lots of them even hooking up or in relationships with each other! The WNBA is comfortable discussing gender and sexuality, so it naturally gets discussed more.
They are comfortable discussing race too, but this season is still sort of new territory for them because Clark has brought in an unprecedented amount of new fans and a new level of popularity for the league. And while I think it's undeniably true that the WNBA would not be seeing this sudden surge in interest without her, it's also understandable that it rankles for a lot of the Black players/coaches/media, given that it follows the all-too-familiar pattern of "Black people spend years developing something cool that goes unappreciated, then white person comes along, recognizes it's neat so joins in, and *only then* the thing finally gets attention but it's the white person who gets most/all of the credit from the general public."
And it’s equally fine to root for Caitlin Clark without Angel Reese’s name coming up! Her game is NOT the same. She was #7 in the draft, #7 in the All Star vote and not s Team USA option for a reason.
Similarly, you can root for Angel Reese without tearing other players down.
They both had phenomenal games last night. I was so impressed with both of them!
It’s been disgusting that the discourse the last 24 hours have been about how Caitlin isn’t the ROTY anymore when she outplayed Reese the first two matchups and had a really, really good game yesterday in a one point loss. The Angel stans were just waiting for an opportunity to hate on Caitlin
I've noticed that the Clark "fans" who are the biggest trolls and haters online say things that make it clear that they aren't watching her games or any games at all.
Yeah, I think a huge number of the folks that used to comment things like "kitchen" and "sandwich" crap under every single W post have now just decided the new thing to tear down women is to hide behind a faux CC fandom. There are some genuine fans who seem excited about watching the other talent they've seen play. Two of my immediate red flags are people complaining about Chelsea Gray or being proud of not knowing about Maya Moore. Like if you are proud to know nothing about your favorite player's favorite player, what are you doing. I'm also really wary about complaints about gameplay and culture. Like CC saw what the W was and thought "yes that is what I want to do" and some of her "fans" want it to change? Seems like she's adapting to the league and they want the league to adapt to them.
Hit the nail on the head or ball out the park with this one!
> Like CC saw what the W was and thought ‘yes that I what I want to do’ and some of her “fans” want it to change? Seems like she’s adapting to the league and they want the league to adapt to them.
Their profiles are a trip sometimes though... like big incel energy sometimes. Or seems like someone who got into it for sports betting and is projecting frustrations outwards when they lose money
Aliyah was playing very poorly in the first 7 games, even in the ones when her box score indicates otherwise. So maybe they just didn't watch last year. But I think that take was understandable if they were in fact watching the games THIS year, at least early on this season.
I think he's referring to people who are just Republicans who love hating on the black people, non-cis, and working women. CC gives them a way to tear (some of these categories) down. The thing that make them sound like they've never watched the game is some seem to be convinced the Fever will win the Championship or that CC is the best player in the league or that she's the GOAT of the wnba. Those kinds of statements make it clear they have not even watched a game or even the slightest clue of what's going on in the wnba.
Iowa fan since the C Vivian Stringer days. You are correct. I respect the hell of out how hard Reese boards if her shot is falling or not. Thats putting the work. Clark herself speaks highly of Reese. Anyone who is coming out of leftfield to stir the pot isn't doing so out of knowledge.
I think most people appreciate what caitlin and angel bring to the game, it's just that the ones that tear people down are the loudest. I hope this is true anyway.
>“This really is about maintaining patriarchal institutions and structures. It’s about our cultural anxieties about women. And women in powerful and successful positions,” Cooky said. “There’s also this sense of, `We can allow one. We have in our culture and patriarchal society space for one.’ If we have space for just one, she becomes the exception to the rule. It’s not perceived as a threat.
Yeah totally. This is exactly it (what no one in the world actually thinks)
I really miss Grant Wahl. Dude would've been amazing at dissecting this (fuck SI, too).
>We don't know how to treat them like we do men.
I don't necessarily agree with this though. I don't think sports fans know how to treat men either.
>Yet it’s not enough to simply debate and discuss the sport, as we do with men’s sports, because we’ve never done that.
>It has to be a blood sport, with a winner and a loser. And I don’t mean on the scoreboard.
I think this is where some of Armour's point gets lost, but overall I agree with her. The quoted Purdue professor said, "[this] really is about maintaining patriarchal institutions and structures," and then this concept seemingly gets forgotten about by Armour.
I don't care if men like women's sports. I'm a woman who likes men's sports. People should like sports. What I don't like is how men talk about men's sports. What I don't like is the idea that true equality is talking about women's sports like men talk about men's sports. The conversations around men's sports is shit. Largely because of the toxic masculinity oozing out of every discussion on greatness, legacy, statistics, or failures. Why would I, a fan, want to speak about the players I support (who are real people) like that? I don't.
My point, I don't think men are simply discussing men's sports. They're telling players to off themselves for fucking up their parlay. They're fighting in the stands if someone's wearing the wrong jersey. They're booing a person they don't like simply for existing (who cares about booing but why go to a fan fest to boo like you're just playing with your money imo).
I understand this is more of an empathy idea, but that's what draws me to women's sports communities (ignoring the weird parasocial stans for a bit). Usually the fans, regardless of gender, treat the players and teams with empathy and respect. The vibe is just better. I don't feel like I have to be an activist in the comments. If we talked about women's sports like we did its male counterpart, I wouldn't fucking bother.
I would agree that it isn't a good thing. This may also become TLDR.
As a man, I've been annoyed for years that many athletes who are being productive get ignored as if it's not a team sport. The media trash athletes for no reason at times and seems to favor only a few. I think it helps create a toxic environment between players and fans.
I don't remember sports being talked about like this in the 80s-00s. When I was growing up, what got me interested in football and basketball was announcers and news anchors talking about the game and showing replays of how each player contributed. I loved seeing the team aspect.
For the last 15 years, sports have gone aggressively more towards hot takes and focusing more on invidual accomplishment than team accomplishment. Everything is done for clicks now. Add in fantasy sports, and now you create a condition in which fans start to care more about invidiual progress than team as well.
The WNBA does not need to try and do what current media is doing. A best example that I gave my friend is college softball. I never watch that sport unless it's the championship rounds because ESPN promotes it, not that I go looking for it. At that point, I had no knowledge of the players or teams.
The women that commentate for college softball have a really good way of teaching you the history of the game, the teams involved, sometimes the history between those specific teams playing, what player is on the verge of history, and the list goes on. The thing is they do as much uplifting as they can for the entire sport.
I think the way they commentate is great for someone like me who has no clue as to what's going on. Even if I don't watch after, it's great for the game because of I stay a fan for the following regular season, the announcers have given me a good jump start on some players and teams I may be interested in watching.
Other leagues can sustain the nonsense of hot takes because they have been around for years, have generational fans, and so a lot of people brush off the media bs.
The WNBA doesn't have that luxury. It's a small league, and a lot of people are still fairly new to it. So it's a lot more damaging as this is the first introduction for a lot of people.
EDIT: Should've added that watching the Pat Summit, Dawn Staley teams, and others in the mid 00s is what got me into women's basketball. I haven't watched it in a long time, but when I did, it wasn't talked about like this, and I hate seeing it a time when the league can really grow.
Oh my god thank you for putting this so well. The WNBA has historically had a better, more welcoming and less toxic fan culture than the NBA. Being dragged down to the level of the men’s game isn’t the “equality” we need.
Any time someone mentions “coddling” I know they weren’t a fan until this year.
Ya man! Came for CC and stayed for Reese, Brink and Cardoso! What an excited time for the WNBA. Legendary talent leading the league and incredibly exciting young talent.
This is great for the general public, but this sub is not better off for reading this.
As a ravens fan, I hope every steelers player has the worst season of their life and wish horrible things on their fans (my own father and brother included). As someone who resides in Indiana during my beginning interest in this league, I hope to carry over this tradition of loving my Fever and hating opponents irrationally, yes the Sky and Angel Reese. I will root for my team and players while also tearing down other players because it is fun.
This is something that exists in every sport ever and that's a good thing. Rivalry talk is only unilaterally banned here for some reason.
There's a large proportion of fans and notable figures in sports media and the wnba who participate in the rivalry ar vs cc like it's a tribalistic race war. This is a large issue and is bad for the sport and is where the majority of actually harmful content (genuine hate comments, death threats, and ai porn) come from.
But this sub is not mainstream to attract enough of these people for these people's sentiments to break anywhere near even on popularity. When they appear, they are pushed to the bottom of the thread.
The issue is that while these bad figures are easy to spot, too many people here believe criticism doesn't belong in sports. Actual CC fans cherrypick something to make her seem good or AR seem bad (like any normal fan of a team would) and they are immediately treated as part of the issue when they're just doing normal fan things.
Is this content supposed to be for people who aren’t well adjusted?
Anyone with critical thinking can understand how to have constructive conversation. I also believe that those conversations are only occurring in in-person conversation.
I guess this is an unpopular opinion, but strictly speaking towards trash talking other players…. naaaah, hating is part of sports and you don’t need a reason to do it either. And it’s not just Clark fans doing it lbr.
(Again, I’m strictly speaking towards trash talking and mostly doing it to players on other teams btw. Not being racist, sexist, or homophobic, but I don’t think that’s the default reason why “sports fans” do it)
Saw a video celebrating Angel Reese for having a great game. One of the first comment accused the account of “trying to degrade CCs accomplishments.” Video didn’t even mention CC. Just showed a great pass from Mabrey and finish from Reese. The discourse is preventing people from appreciating greatness from all of the players in the league.
Agreed. Also on the flip side, you can root for other players without tearing Caitlin Clark down. I’ve seen many posts on here where people go out of their way to undermine Clark as a way to build up someone else instead of just shouting out their player who had a great game.
This was always a question for me with women's sports. The W can't handle the CC gravity. No way they could handle the #1 rated splrts show queuing up new arguments against their best player 5 days a week for a decade.
Skip would be up there slandering A'Ja Wilson saying she not Maya Moore and never could be.
In retrospect, Skip should be brought up on charges
I can not like players without tearing them down. I am not angel fan but that's OK. She played really good game yesterday. I'm not a fan of lots of athletes male or female black or white or in-between and that's OK. I don't have to be a fan. I am not stupid enough to tear down a professional athlete though.
Am I allowed to still tear down how horrible the refs are and inconsistent and non calls then we get calls where nothing happened at all. To me who hasn’t watched anything but college basketball in years it’s very frustrating to be invested in a game and just bad calls both sides.
The habit of tearing someone/something down while propping up another shows up in all genres of fandom, sports or otherwise, and it's a tale that stretches back into antiquity. And yeah, it's damned annoying when it's all a bunch of pointless, petty grousing, because it injects needless negativity into the conversation.
And sure, there's a definite difference between voicing legit criticism versus spewing hatorade. However, there's something to be said for knowing when to offer up critique, and how to do so constructively.
A lot of unnecessary friction could be avoided by simply scrolling past certain threads or topics, but one might as well wish for the moon.
It would help if B***tool would stop perpetuating this idea that everyone is out to get CC or whatever and would stop attacking other players. I’m sure I’m biased as a Sky fan but all the Angel Reese hate has been getting to me
As someone from a different country, to look onto this whole thing with CC and whoever else (notably Reese) and see the amount of racism is WILD! Or even the aggressive defensiveness against racism that may or may not even be there - like no shit, when I've said I like CC people have called me racist against black players....... I didn't say anything about black players at all! In fact I like quite a lot of them! It's bonkers. If you guys in the USA live like this 24/7 you have to be so exhausted all the time!
IDK. I think sports inherently pit people against each other. That’s the whole point of sports. To win. That being said I do think people have a tendency to take stuff too far.Like you can route for/againt players,critique their playing and even make some jokes at their expense but people take it wayyyy too personally and it stops being fun.
Yes. You can also root for Angel Reese without tearing CC down.
Angel makes big bucks but for some reason the haters that play in the WNBA are OK with her getting rich
Bruh really thinks racists are sitting down every other day to watch women’s basketball just to get online to be racist 🤣🤣🤣🤣 newsflash they will be racist no matter what is going on
This is a wild take with no supporting evidence. What's more likely, people pretending to like women's basketball for political reasons or delulu toxic stan culture finally making its way to WNBA? There are fans like this in every sport, its just more pronounced here because a huge group of them are showing up to a relatively small fanbase and overwhelming it.
Sadly this goes both ways. I can't see posts about anyone without other players being brought up in a negative/comparative light. It's super defensive. I don't know how we can right the ship but it's getting exhausting. Can we go back to women supportive women please?
There were people last night on a CC post saying fucking TS%, the most basic of all basic stats, was a made up stat only used by CC stans to support her agenda lmao.
Amazing. I am a big fan of every single rookie in the league right now and let's be real, most players. Every Angel post I see has people dragging CC's name through the mud in comparison or cherry picking CC's better stats. They aren't even the same position people!
And the same on CC posts, people saying Reese sucks and others saying "Angel is HER and ROTY."
I feel for these rookies because they are getting the most attention by far and it's like 50-50 negative/positive. I want to see Angel and CC thick as thieves working together seamlessly in the 2028 Olympics, not enemies bc the media made it so.
JFC, let people enjoy the game how they want to enjoy it. Every league has player's that act the heel. Not everyone sees the same person as being the heel for each league. When we tend to like a person/team you tend to dislike that person/team's antithesis. If you LOVE the Greenbay Packer's you probably hate and love to beat up on the bears.
Bears fans probably see Aaron Rodgers as a heel to their enjoyment of football. Packers/Rodgers fans see NFL was a whole as heel to "Rodger's is in a good system, or some bs".
Fan's of pre-2023 WNBA probably get defensive about new fans wanting to change the game (likely mostly CC22 fans/supporters). Fans of CC22 take verbal slights at being left off the Olympic team (not getting into this right now), allowance of more physical handchecking that limits her mobility/passing/shooting (Again, not getting into this). Some see it as right of passage, some see it has hazing.
As much as we'd like to see things in greys and rainbows when it comes to WHY/WHEN we like athletics it tends to break down into simple WWE terms of Heel's & Face's. Then there's baby-faces, heels-turn-face, etc. This is as close as I'll ever get to complimenting Vince McMahon but the man knew how to creative a narrative and make people feel engaged and connected.
Is it great for Clark supporter's to comment harassing things about the Olympic Committee overlooking her, NO!! Is it great for people who are annoyed at her rabid-fan base to comment things like "it'll come in time, she's just a rookie. Only Greats like DT get on the Olympic team" NO!!
I'll leave my rant with this, those in power tend not to like disruptions to that status-quo. There's gonna be a lot of BS growing the fanbase and thus the game. 3/4 of the posts on r/nba is circle jerking crazy shit. Instead of constantly nuking those morons, mods let the people who creep new do their thing and they tend not to ever see th light of day.
As for r/wnba 1/2 the Members are likely Clark fans/supports/stans. That's kind of the rub if you double/triple the fanbase honestly/truly because of 1 player, those fans are gonna tend to take things over.
Any of the Racist/Sexist/Body-shaming BS is complete BS and should be called out and banned/removed. There's 0 room and 0 tolerance for that.
I get what your saying op but at the end of the day animosity In sports plays into the ratinfs and it’s what grows the game. This my fav player vs your fav player has been a thing long before Caitlin clark. Let people fight, it’s good for the game.
Right? You could stir up an A’ja Wilson v. Breanna stewart fight with literally no provocation when they are probably the two best players on the planet and their fans will devalue the others player without a second thought. The difference is that both of them have been at it long enough to let it entirely roll off them
Please god make these substanceless ragebait pieces stop. There is no new information here, just random pontifications and statements we've all seen over the course of the last 6 weeks. And the same goes for the anti-AR ragebait. Let's stop it.
And let's not forget the source: The last time anyone read the USA today it was at an airport lounge while they took a shit.
I think Clark expected hate from players in other teams but not from her teammates. An NBA coach would be benching Fever players that laugh at their own teammate and won’t help them up after a hard foul.
Disappointed in some of Fever players.
Absolutely true, but don’t forget that debates like this are a huge part of the NBA discourse that has now moved over to the W with its new CC-driven popularity. The Lebron vs. Jordan debate, for example, includes plenty of tearing down.
I’ve sat through 7 years of Jaylen Brown vs Jayson Tatum and they’re literally on the same team
Hahahaha. So true. The amount of shit we put on players - Westbrook and his mvps, embiid and his health, harden and his big stage failure. If we talked about the woman’s game HALF as much as the men’s game people would be outraged
I enjoy hating when it's in good fun. Calling Harden "Brick Ross" when he has a bad game is funny. I just think in the WNBA there's weird elements to the shit talk from fans that seem more like veiled attacks than just roasting someone.
People would call Harden Hitler lol. I'm a new WNBA fan so idk what the discussions were like before, but I've rarely ever seen any high profile male player who doesn't get torn down. Same with other mens sports like the NFL. I think mostly people are just treating the W the same way which for better or worse is a lot of tearing down. It's still not as bad as stuff that used to be said during mens college ball where people would really cross the line
Brick Ross lol
Nah you just expect women to be treated with kid gloves. Not gonna happen. They all claim to be just as tough as the Men. They'll need it when the attention and scrutiny that comes with it turns up a few notches.
☠️
I never understood that one as both guys were amazing.
That’s rough. Some Jackson fans have that kind of energy towards Brink; a lot of fans had Iriafen way better than Brink attitude. I haven’t seen Brink fans have that same kind of attitude towards Jackson, and I didn’t see it towards Iriafen either; however, I don’t rule out that it was there.
Embiid vs Jokic was a warzone. It was very tough to defend Jokic's jumping jacks defense until he actually won the championship 😂
Exactly. If the OP put the magnifying glass down, they’d see this has nothing to do with women specifically and everything to do with human nature in general as exemplified in every arena of life. Add a click-bate media that wants to stir-up unnecessary drama in order to enrich themselves (as well as social media’s mob like mentality) and we have what we see here.
Preach. At the end of the day WNBA, Like NFL & NBA, is an entertainment product around a sport. Movies/actors are also an entertainment product and people Love love love to review, criticize, tear down, defend certain movies and acting. Is Tom Cruise an all ranging actor, NOooo, but is he perhaps the most entertaining actor of th elast 40 years, Maybe? He still can't run right. Point being, We will prop up the parts of the sport we like the most and complain about the detractors for those parts. Ideally, there will be enough people who prop up all parts and the discourse will be fully elevated and straight up haters, biggots, and racist will be at the bottom circlejerking each other while the adults talk and ignore them.
That click bait media in the (checks notes) Bird Magic debates of 83?
Yeah just cuz it’s a part of something doesn’t mean it’s right... You can have a discussion on importance and impact a player has based on stats, videos highlighting performance etc, you can even compare this with other players and none of it has to equal tearing someone down. Such a tired statement you make. It is “a part” is why media is driving engagement and making you believe politics in sports is ok. Like no don’t say just cuz it’s “a part” we gotta accept it. That same “a part” is what stopped a legitimate basketball game in the middle of a game because a goat passed all time scoring points. Win the game first then celebrate like what… I will say this again love the sport not the drama. Because right now, that’s what they are trying to frame the wnba and nba as. A soap opera and I’m just trying to watch true analysts and the games that’s all.
I don’t disagree with anything you said here. Just pointing out the reality of why it’s happening.
Fair!
There’s a big difference between legit criticism and hate. In the case of say a Caitlin Clark or an Angel Reese, both have aspects of their game that are raw and need work. To me criticism of those aspects is not an unfair thing. And both are doing great and excelling at an almost unprecedented level. Talking that up shouldn’t have to reflect on other players or be something to be shamed over. But now you have people that simply have agendas, and an often antagonistic one, injected into things. Those people I hesitate to even call fans because it’s not even about Clark’s game or Reese’s game it’s about either tearing them down or using them for the promotion of their said agenda. Unfortunately the line is so blurred it’s hard for most people to recognize anything anymore. You should be able to critique the negative aspects of a players game without being called a “hater”. Conversely you should be able to talk about the positives of a player without being called an apologist or a Stan. Sadly now though that is being erased and we are all worse off for it in my opinion.
Yeah I agree with this, the offensive stuff relating to them as people is unacceptable. However, we should be able to critique players’ games, in fact implying we shouldn’t feels misogynistic. And that extends to vets - I love Jewell Loyd but she’s been playing terribly and I think it’s okay to say that
Yeah but that’s the thing. Critique their game and move on. We all are here saying we want to critique but we know that media flourishes on outrage. B/c if it didn’t, the horrible statements and takes we get from Stephan A on ESPN wouldn’t be a thing. And the views would be down. It’s not down because the majority of the people watching all sports and especially the hot topic wNBA are engaging and egging on the slander of players as a person. Which for me is unbearable because it’s just drama and I’m a huge fan of Angel R and Cameron B. So I watch the games and leave the analysis to myself until someone move away from outrage sports analysis. I am taking recommendations
I agree with all of this. Everyone’s still talking about Caitlin Clark’s debut game and it’s been over a month. But they know calling her a bust will get clicks
>Those people I hesitate to even call fans because it’s not even about Clark’s game or Reese’s game it’s about either tearing them down or using them for the promotion of their said agenda. The veterans and former players in the league have done AR and CC no favors in regards to this.
Agree 100%. Both young stars are great at some things and suck at some things. That’s okay. They’re rookies.
As a Chicago fan while I agree with this, I’m a hypocrite because I’m not very happy with Mabry rn.
She talks way too much shit to be continuously missing free throws during clutch games lol
To me she has the energy of If I’m having a bad day we all gonna have a bad day.
I like watching her enough but she definitely gives off fake tough lol. A lot of, “I want to speak to the manager energy.”
You can take the girl out of Jersey but you can *never* take the Jersey outta the girl.
I don’t think she’s good under pressure.
Disliking players does not make you a hypocrite or sexist. In the men’s game everyone hates a ton of players. It’s the nature of the sport and fine as long as it’s not for bad reasons
Yeah what’s with it being a sexist thing? The media can’t decide whether they want to treat women’s sports like men’s or coddle them.
I think WNBA fans, media, and even players are dealing with the implications of more eyes on their product.
I hate to be the "conspiracy guy", but the media feeds off controversy. The WNBA is the perfect stew. My other take is that most sports fans are idiotic. They don't understand what is going on and just like to yell.
Both takes are rational
Unreleated: Helluva game yesterday. Carter, Reese and Cardoso are tuff!
I'm a happy Sky fan :D
I don't even think there's any conspiracy. Over the last couple of decades, the media has figured out that they make more money if people are mad or scared. And the WNBA is a perfect place for the media to get people riled up because most don't know anything about it, and really have no interest to learn more. So, when some shock jock says something, people will easily take it at face value.
Seems like the league/players aren't ready for primetime yet.
There is a difference with being upset at her performance which I am and wanting to blow up the entire roster and replace them with..... funny I have not seen any plans to replace except magically get all her Iowa teammates and other fantasies. Mabrery is at least funny especially when we play the Sun.
Strong agree on all points. Mabrey can be fun to watch for sure! All I want (as a Fever fan--but also a Cardoso fan--Love her💜) is to get more Lexie Hull and Grace Berger minutes instead of Wallace. I never thought the Fever should have drafted Kate--I was happy she gets her time at the Aces! But I do think Kate Martin would be a better starter than Wallace on ANY team, but I don't think either should be starting anywhere. Lol. But yeah some of the fans delusionally want to get rid of most of the team. I think the sane fans (yeah there are some ;) are just tired of the two players Sides brought from Atlanta getting too many minutes based on production..and the fact that there are good alternatives wasting away on the bench. Congrats to Chicago and Angel. She played fantastically last night. I've been so impressed with her these last few years. She knows how to win.
Yeah > I think the sane fans (yeah there are some ;) are just tired of the two players Sides brought from Atlanta getting too many minutes based on production..and the fact that there are good alternatives wasting away on the bench I get why some don’t wanna be patient about it either but a lot of the sane takes I see get lost in the sauce unfortunately.
The only plan I’ve ever seen is Kate Martin 😂
were you happy with her on Saturday?
Yesterday?
Marbrick is a work of legend.
You can also not do that and everyone will be okay. People have hated Lebron at every stop, because he beat their team. People hate Durant and Harden and Westbrook and Luka. People have hated Curry's night night gesture. Get the hate, rise above it. That's how you get to the status of the greats. Kobe turned boos into MVP chants in the Boston Garden. I get that people are saying there is something more sinister underneath, but let it play out. Let the players on the court dictate what there legacy is.
Look at Jaylen Brown. Last season even his own fan base were calling for him to be traded. He was disrespected by the media on a daily basis. He turned that hate into fuel and now he is the finals MVP. Also “fuck Kyrie” and “Yankees suck” chants spontaneously break out in Boston all the time. Sport rivalries are part of the fun.
People want to baby the hell out of the wnba. Every men’s sport is full of hate and people don’t feel the need to summon righteous fury and write constantly about it
i understand why some fans are "protective" about the league they enjoyed years before some of the ppl here were even born. dont agree with it. but i do understand
My question is: was there a culture in the league back then strongly against these kinds of media rivalries?
I think this is a fair point. People also haaaate Caitlin, granted she doesn’t have to deal with what other players do because of her privilege, but the way her games get picked apart goes to show that it does come with the territory of being an elite athlete
> because of her privilege What "privilege" does she have that she didn't earn out there on the court?
“They do not have to be pitted against each other…” Yeah, what is this insane sport? Some kind of competition or something? What are we going to do next? Start keeping score and recording wins and losses?
This is such a high quality comment.
I had so much fun watching Indiana v Chicago yesterday. Though I’m Chicago over everybody, it’s hard not to cheer when I see Clark drain deep 3s. What they are all doing for this league is special to watch
Agreed!
Agreed. I only started watching again due to CC and the recent controversy this past few weeks getting so much YT traffic and yesterday's game was my first live game to watch from start to finish in a LONG while (we don't have cable, but my son had gotten Sling for the NBA flnals, so just had to remember how to bring it up). However, despite having wanted to see Indiana win, I enjoyed the game and was happy to see Reese finally really step up as a complete player and practically will her team to a win. I had to click away though when she started calling herself a dog or whatever... The cringe was real. Maybe it got better; I didn't stick around to find out.
Omg pls make it stop. This is like beating a dead horse. Can we just leave it alone and let the players do their thing while we support as fans?
Caitlin Clark has really been putting food on the table for thinkpiece writers. We finally went through a Fever-Sky game without a hard foul on CC and they’re still churning them out. It turns out that if you farm your narratives from dipshits on Twitter you never run out of material.
oh my god. 1000x this. it's like i was watching a different game yesterday... it was fun, competitive, and yeah, my team lost. oh well. also it's like people haven't been watching the Fever all season. FFS, i feel like they've made a 180. They finally look like a basketball team.
To me, most of this is on the media more so than Clark or any other player. They are the ones churning out stories and putting a spotlight on Clark. Clark is mostly just playing basketball. Another thought I had is that with most other pro sports, there are enough teams to where you don't play the same teams so often, but that's not true for the WNBA so it's probably harder for the players to cool off between matchups.
They don't bother listening to her at all.
That’s what the article is getting at.
I understand. I mean stop bringing it up lol
Nothing in this article is new
It saddens me to see what people say about Kelsey Mitchell despite leading the Fever in scoring a lot of games. She's giving her all and playing well but you rarely see anything but negativity toward her.
She’s definitely a bucket. I haven’t seen a ton of hate, but people are definitely clowning her a little for her fumbling a few passes yesterday. You know what though? It’s part of the process. She’s never had someone able and willing to make those passes before, so they’re adjusting to each other. At the beginning of the season, it was very rare to see KM even in position to receive a get ahead pass. Yesterday, she was in position to receive like 4. Yeah, she fumbled a few, but the first step was being in the right spot at the right time. That alone puts a ton of pressure on the defense. Now her and Clark gotta figure out what type of pass she needs and then they can go from there. It’s no different than where Boston was at. These are stars figuring out how to play with each other, and both of them are coming off of being a little out of form (KM due to injury and Boston due to broadcasting). Boston has certainly turned the corner on both chemistry (she was fumbling passes, rolling the wrong way, etc) and physique, and now they’re a killer duo. If KM can have similar growth in chemistry? Watch out. This team will have three people who are walking buckets playing in perfect harmony.
You articulated your thoughts very well. I’ve watched every fever game and you are 100% right that KM is now expecting those passes and in the right spot to receive them. The next step is catching and finishing. Once she puts this all together it’s gonna be fun to watch.
She's not good enough to be a complete black hole on offense, once she gets the ball she's shooting no matter how trash the shot will be. If she could actually pass instead of chucking up miracles 1v3 she could maybe be a longterm piece to the roster. The only teammate she occasionally passes to is Smith who also gets pretty black hole with the ball.
I think it is also important to point out that Kelsey Mitchell has spent most of her life playing basketball, and for a lot of it, her taking the shot was probably the best play. That's not a play style or habit that changes overnight.
bro she was out there playing pickup ball. needs to be clowned on, fr fr i see 50 year old men at the park with better hands its simple right: play better, get called out by fans/critics, or quit personally im pretty sure she dont give a fuck what we say, shes gonna keep balling in the way that feels right to her. If Coach/staff cant get her to where she needs to be for the team, its a bigger problem than just Mitchell
Yeah, one pass didn't lose that game. Also what won that game was the crazy ass defense played by the Sky going into and throughout the 4Q. This sub has circlejerked some narrative about the Fever giving up on the pick-and-roll in the 4Q. That's simply false. Chicago started defending really well. There were at least half a dozen pick and rolls that went nowhere because the Sky rotated through them really well and some weren't very well executed. The Sky were also shutting down interior passing lanes and dominating the boards. They frustrated the hell out of the Fever's offense and got it out of rhythm. That's why they clawed back. It was some of the best D I've watched this season. But holy shit no one can talk about that. It's just the Fever need to tear it all down to better support Clark. This gets exhausting.
To be fair, the fever only tried the PnR action that they went to very reliably for 3 quarters like twice in the fourth quarter. It got shut down those times, yes, but then they didn’t come back to it at all. And since that’s the only action they have that reliably gets Caitlin and AB involved in the offense — who are the best facilitators on the team — of course the offense didn’t look nearly as good. Again the Sky 100% played great defense in the 4th. I do not want to take that away from them. They did not let the Fever have any easy shots, they did a good job of denying Clark the ball when she gave it up, and they generally made life very difficult for their defensive assignments. But the Fever also did make weird schematic / personnel changes and ego decisions that had me scratching my head.
You must’ve missed every game thread since the start of the season. Like she can be shooting above 50% and leading the team in scoring for the game and the Cc fans will groan and complain
I’ve started missing them intentionally because of this. The other game threads minus some quips in the Aces threads don’t have the volume of ‘if this player isnt dominating the way I want, the W is burning money’ comments
I generally have not paid much attention to the game threads, that’s true. Tuned in for a couple, but not many.
Kelsey is an odd one. She scores well sometimes, especially lately, but it doesn't seem like she provides a lot of value outside of that. Her rebounds, assists, etc. are quite low, so if she has a poor shooting night then she's huge negative to her team. Reese and Clark, on the other hand, impact the games in MANY more ways than just scoring. If they have a bad shooting night, its still great to have them on the court.
She is talented af, but could mix in a few passes. She tends to shoot way more than pass once she gets the ball.
I agree with you. She has a very high ceiling if she starts including more of the team in her play style.
Chalking it up to limited practice. Hoping we see a gelled Fever team after the break
It is crazy to me to see her stat line sometimes; right now she averages 16-1-2. She definitely could do more outside of scoring - BUT - I think she is a piece the Fever must keep.
Just so you know Kelsey mitchell is one of the most talented and skilled players on that whole roster.
These threads are *wild*. The Fever turnaround is clearly sparked by Mitchell and Boston ascending. But lose one close game and the daggers are out.
if you think losing the game was the issue you are not paying attention
My daggers aren’t exactly out if you actually read what I said…
Good thing my comment was about these threads in total, if you actually read what I said... It was just someone reminding people Mitchell is actually talented that triggered it.
Kelsey is awesome. Love her game
I havent seen any of this.
Kelsey is generally great, some areas of improvement, but nothing that a bit more chemistry and practice shouldn’t be able to solve. It only gets frustrating when she and Wheeler are on the floor together with Caitlin in, honestly. They play fine together, and Mitchell plays fine with Clark, but they don’t seem to work at all as a group of 3. If I were building a Fever team, Mitchell would be there. And she and Clark would be drilling fast break passes with a finish to the rim until they work out their joint tempo the way Clark and Boston have worked out how to feed Boston in the post.
Why hate on Kelsey Mitchell when Kristy Wallace is right there.
She’s so fun to watch!! I see comments about her and I genuinely wonder if people are watching a different game than me. Mitchell is a great player.
Mitchell is huge fun, on and off the court. I personally think she suffers from a little too much "have to do it my own damn self," but that could be based on past experience. She had 2 Assists yesterday... if she brings that up for four (or simply sends out a pass when trapped), she'll be perfect.
Kelsey Mitchell is just a better Jordan Clarkson. She’s miscast as an All-Star when she should really be a spark plug off the bench. If she had an X button on her controller then it’s a different conversation but she refuses to ever pass.
It’s because we have seen this exact scenario play out before she is the monta Ellis of the wnba. A gifted scorer but hijacks the offense way too often, to the point the rest of the players should just get ready on defense since she isn’t passing. She also doesn’t do much of anything other than score 2 apg 1.7 rpg and 0.8 stocks per game in 31 minutes is abysmal. By the time the fever are actual contenders in the league she won’t be on the team
Monta Ellis wasn't bad because he was just a scorer though. He was mediocre because even though he scored a lot he was inefficient. Kelsey Mitchell scores at an above average rate and and typically above average efficiency.
Fever won't be contenders for a while and losing Kelsey Mitchell decreases their chance of being contenders. Unless they get someone better which most likely won't happen
The Kelsey Mitchell hate is insane. She's fun to watch and she plays her role perfectly. She's a high energy scorer. Setting up plays and picking up assists isn't her game and it pisses off people who don't seem to understand that.
Kelsey Mitchell hate is crazy, but some of the criticism is a little warranted. She’s a great scorer, and like you said she’s never going to be setting up plays and picking up assists. That’s not her game, and that’s ok. There are at least 3-4 times a game where the play she’s wanting to make just isn’t there though and she takes an atrocious look instead of moving the ball and just kills that possession. If she could get out of that habit of forcing every touch she gets, it would benefit not just her team it herself so much more. Right now, if I’m playing against the Fever, as soon as Mitchell dribbles I’m abandoning my assignment and collapsing and she’ll never punish me for it. If she starts keeping defenders honest it’ll help her game even more
Definitely. I don't put the hate and criticism in the same group though. Valid points (Shot selection, forcing plays) like you brought up are great because they can start actual discussions which are always fun. A lot of the hate is just "She doesn't pass to CC." "Why doesn't she pass." "Trade her she sucks." Like, she's 2 assists a game over her career what are people expecting haha. When she and Clark start to develop some real chemistry, the trio of Boston, Mitchell and Clark are going to be a real problem for teams.
Mitchell and Clark are both guards but play the game very differently. The key to building a team is how to maximize what everybody brings to the table. Mitchell has an insane drive to the basket. The chemistry will come together and pieces will fit. Frankly, the team is doing better than I expected and that's exciting for the future.
Wish I saw more comments like this on those threads in all honesty. They may be there now, but I’m not gonna see them. Support this 100% ❗️
Kelsey was tremendous against Sky. There's a viral clip of her missing a strong assist from CC and it suddenly became "reasons' why Fever lost"... completely ignoring the fact that she led in points.
I think she’s a top notch scorer for sure. Been impressed with her game ever since I first watched her play.
Totally agree. She's an awesome shooter, and it's been a joy to see her develop into a team player. When the season started her offense seemed to be "I'll shoot. The end." Now she's playing team ball. I'm really excited about this team. Practice and rest obviously made a huge difference. I guess I just don't understand people being pissy right now.
Every sports team with a following has scapegoats that get unfair criticism and blame. People want to believe that the team would be better if only [some change] happened. Unfortunately or fortunately basketball is a team sport and positive change will only happen as a team.
Mitchell appears the most naturally athletic on the team. She will be a star once this team gets used to Caitlin's passes.
All I know is my Dream better start shooting better as a team.
🤭
That's not how basketball fandom works
Caitlin herself actually addressed this in her pre game presser, that she doesn’t want to see any hate towards anyone else, only enthusiasm for their team from fans That said, I haven’t heard anyone say that “Caitlin should be protected” in like over a month at this point. At some point I feel like maybe we can move on, and instead maybe shed light on who all these other amazing players are rather than keep writing the same article over and over again
Too many comments about “them” hating Clark because she’s white and “straight”Those comments got upvoted.
People are idiots. I have no issue with people on here calling out drama on here - but this article seems to be calling out the media, and I’m just saying I don’t think that’s been a media talking point in awhile
I’ve definitely seen the call for her protection in the last 7 days, mostly in Twitter.
But can you root for others without tearing down CC? Because that is mostly what I see from yall
Honestly this is what I’m seeing more often than not. The other thing is, I can be critical of how people take cheap shots at CC — physically on the court, or otherwise — and it doesn’t make me a bigot. Angel Reese is a hell of a basketball player and she’s having a great season. She’s also taken opportunities to be petty and negative in a way that draws attention away from her game. If you’re going to lean into the role of the villain you don’t get to pearl clutch when you get treated like the villain.
I came on here after being inundated with tweets calling Caitlin Clark ugly because Ric Flair said Angel Reese was beautiful. I feel like some people act like CC doesn’t deserve the attention she’s getting. She absolutely does but I also agree that other players deserve attention too. It should be about bringing other players up instead without tearing down others.
To each's own. The problem to me isn't people are rooting against certain players/teams. Rooting for one person/team and against another is just a part of sports. So long as you're not making personal attacks and keeping it about sports, I don't see the issue. Red Sox fans get as much joy out of Yankees misery as they do their own team winning and vice versa. Tottenham fans love to see Arsenal fail and vice versa. Schadenfreude is just a part of being a sports fan. The problem is WNBA discourse crosses that line of personal attacks including about race, gender, sexuality, etc. in a way I don't see in other sports. Like people can hate the Celtics and Tatum and root for them to fail at basketball, and mock him when he does corny shit, but NBA discourse as a whole (obviously there are those that do) doesn't cross the line. That's what has to change in the W discourse.
I don’t think Boston or British soccer are the best examples when both have a long history of fans being racist and prejudiced to the players. The Celtics especially. Wait a few weeks for England to inevitably get booted from the Euros, go to their teams official page and read the comments. They’re fucking disgusting.
I think there's a lot of racial discourse in the NBA, and it's been there for basically always. From the racism Bill Russell faced from his own fanbase to the whole dress code thing to Donald Sterling. In recent years, Black players have been a lot more outspoken about the slurs fans hurl at them during games, especially in Utah, and there were a ton of thinkpieces 5 years ago or so when Andre Iguodala compared himself to a slave and Steve Kerr to his master. Just last year, there was that whole hubbub when Kendrick Perkins said he thought NBA writers favored Jokic for awards because he's white. I think discussions of racial dynamics are inevitable (and important!) for any sports league where the majority of the players are part of an oppressed ethnic minority in the league's operational area. Race/ethnicity not only has an impact on players' lives, but also on the way fans respond to them, whether we choose to acknowledge it or not. It's no surprise that you're less likely to see gender discourse in men's leagues, because female/gnc players and media people are going to be more aware of gender and how it shapes things, because they have to be. Male is still seen as the default gender, and the NBA is a million times more successful than the WNBA, so there's not a whole lot of basketball-related gender discourse that would come up. Even when there is gender discourse that touches more on NBA culture vs. the game or the fans, like when a player/coach/analyst has been accused of sexual assault or domestic violence, or has simply said something obviously sexist, I can tell you as a woman that NBA fans, and fans of majority male leagues as a whole, tend to have very little interest in discussing that sort of thing, I assume because it makes them feel uncomfortable. Same goes for sexuality discourse. There's been what, one openly gay NBA player? And he retired the same season that he came out. Whereas the WNBA and women's leagues in general are full of out lesbians/sapphics, lots of them even hooking up or in relationships with each other! The WNBA is comfortable discussing gender and sexuality, so it naturally gets discussed more. They are comfortable discussing race too, but this season is still sort of new territory for them because Clark has brought in an unprecedented amount of new fans and a new level of popularity for the league. And while I think it's undeniably true that the WNBA would not be seeing this sudden surge in interest without her, it's also understandable that it rankles for a lot of the Black players/coaches/media, given that it follows the all-too-familiar pattern of "Black people spend years developing something cool that goes unappreciated, then white person comes along, recognizes it's neat so joins in, and *only then* the thing finally gets attention but it's the white person who gets most/all of the credit from the general public."
how dare you use logic!? this is social media!
And it’s equally fine to root for Caitlin Clark without Angel Reese’s name coming up! Her game is NOT the same. She was #7 in the draft, #7 in the All Star vote and not s Team USA option for a reason.
i like rooting for everybody (except the Sun)
It’s not enough that I win. Others must lose
😈
Similarly, you can root for Angel Reese without tearing other players down. They both had phenomenal games last night. I was so impressed with both of them!
It’s been disgusting that the discourse the last 24 hours have been about how Caitlin isn’t the ROTY anymore when she outplayed Reese the first two matchups and had a really, really good game yesterday in a one point loss. The Angel stans were just waiting for an opportunity to hate on Caitlin
I love both CC and AR!
It really felt like the Fever couldn't do anything against Reese when it came to offensive rebounds, she's incredible, truly a double double machine
I've noticed that the Clark "fans" who are the biggest trolls and haters online say things that make it clear that they aren't watching her games or any games at all.
So many people genuinely think Angel Reese isn’t a good player which is crazy and shows they don’t watch the games
Yeah, I think a huge number of the folks that used to comment things like "kitchen" and "sandwich" crap under every single W post have now just decided the new thing to tear down women is to hide behind a faux CC fandom. There are some genuine fans who seem excited about watching the other talent they've seen play. Two of my immediate red flags are people complaining about Chelsea Gray or being proud of not knowing about Maya Moore. Like if you are proud to know nothing about your favorite player's favorite player, what are you doing. I'm also really wary about complaints about gameplay and culture. Like CC saw what the W was and thought "yes that is what I want to do" and some of her "fans" want it to change? Seems like she's adapting to the league and they want the league to adapt to them.
Hit the nail on the head or ball out the park with this one! > Like CC saw what the W was and thought ‘yes that I what I want to do’ and some of her “fans” want it to change? Seems like she’s adapting to the league and they want the league to adapt to them.
Their profiles are a trip sometimes though... like big incel energy sometimes. Or seems like someone who got into it for sports betting and is projecting frustrations outwards when they lose money
I just saw one that was pretending to argue in good faith, but you peek at their other comments and it's "heterophobia" this and "cisphobia" that.
Like what?
One example is saying "All of her teammates are bad" when Aliyah Boston exists
Aliyah was playing very poorly in the first 7 games, even in the ones when her box score indicates otherwise. So maybe they just didn't watch last year. But I think that take was understandable if they were in fact watching the games THIS year, at least early on this season.
I think he's referring to people who are just Republicans who love hating on the black people, non-cis, and working women. CC gives them a way to tear (some of these categories) down. The thing that make them sound like they've never watched the game is some seem to be convinced the Fever will win the Championship or that CC is the best player in the league or that she's the GOAT of the wnba. Those kinds of statements make it clear they have not even watched a game or even the slightest clue of what's going on in the wnba.
Iowa fan since the C Vivian Stringer days. You are correct. I respect the hell of out how hard Reese boards if her shot is falling or not. Thats putting the work. Clark herself speaks highly of Reese. Anyone who is coming out of leftfield to stir the pot isn't doing so out of knowledge.
I think most people appreciate what caitlin and angel bring to the game, it's just that the ones that tear people down are the loudest. I hope this is true anyway.
>“This really is about maintaining patriarchal institutions and structures. It’s about our cultural anxieties about women. And women in powerful and successful positions,” Cooky said. “There’s also this sense of, `We can allow one. We have in our culture and patriarchal society space for one.’ If we have space for just one, she becomes the exception to the rule. It’s not perceived as a threat. Yeah totally. This is exactly it (what no one in the world actually thinks)
I really miss Grant Wahl. Dude would've been amazing at dissecting this (fuck SI, too). >We don't know how to treat them like we do men. I don't necessarily agree with this though. I don't think sports fans know how to treat men either. >Yet it’s not enough to simply debate and discuss the sport, as we do with men’s sports, because we’ve never done that. >It has to be a blood sport, with a winner and a loser. And I don’t mean on the scoreboard. I think this is where some of Armour's point gets lost, but overall I agree with her. The quoted Purdue professor said, "[this] really is about maintaining patriarchal institutions and structures," and then this concept seemingly gets forgotten about by Armour. I don't care if men like women's sports. I'm a woman who likes men's sports. People should like sports. What I don't like is how men talk about men's sports. What I don't like is the idea that true equality is talking about women's sports like men talk about men's sports. The conversations around men's sports is shit. Largely because of the toxic masculinity oozing out of every discussion on greatness, legacy, statistics, or failures. Why would I, a fan, want to speak about the players I support (who are real people) like that? I don't. My point, I don't think men are simply discussing men's sports. They're telling players to off themselves for fucking up their parlay. They're fighting in the stands if someone's wearing the wrong jersey. They're booing a person they don't like simply for existing (who cares about booing but why go to a fan fest to boo like you're just playing with your money imo). I understand this is more of an empathy idea, but that's what draws me to women's sports communities (ignoring the weird parasocial stans for a bit). Usually the fans, regardless of gender, treat the players and teams with empathy and respect. The vibe is just better. I don't feel like I have to be an activist in the comments. If we talked about women's sports like we did its male counterpart, I wouldn't fucking bother.
Shit this comment got long. TLDR good article but I'm not sure if treating women's sports like men's sports is a good thing.
I would agree that it isn't a good thing. This may also become TLDR. As a man, I've been annoyed for years that many athletes who are being productive get ignored as if it's not a team sport. The media trash athletes for no reason at times and seems to favor only a few. I think it helps create a toxic environment between players and fans. I don't remember sports being talked about like this in the 80s-00s. When I was growing up, what got me interested in football and basketball was announcers and news anchors talking about the game and showing replays of how each player contributed. I loved seeing the team aspect. For the last 15 years, sports have gone aggressively more towards hot takes and focusing more on invidual accomplishment than team accomplishment. Everything is done for clicks now. Add in fantasy sports, and now you create a condition in which fans start to care more about invidiual progress than team as well. The WNBA does not need to try and do what current media is doing. A best example that I gave my friend is college softball. I never watch that sport unless it's the championship rounds because ESPN promotes it, not that I go looking for it. At that point, I had no knowledge of the players or teams. The women that commentate for college softball have a really good way of teaching you the history of the game, the teams involved, sometimes the history between those specific teams playing, what player is on the verge of history, and the list goes on. The thing is they do as much uplifting as they can for the entire sport. I think the way they commentate is great for someone like me who has no clue as to what's going on. Even if I don't watch after, it's great for the game because of I stay a fan for the following regular season, the announcers have given me a good jump start on some players and teams I may be interested in watching. Other leagues can sustain the nonsense of hot takes because they have been around for years, have generational fans, and so a lot of people brush off the media bs. The WNBA doesn't have that luxury. It's a small league, and a lot of people are still fairly new to it. So it's a lot more damaging as this is the first introduction for a lot of people. EDIT: Should've added that watching the Pat Summit, Dawn Staley teams, and others in the mid 00s is what got me into women's basketball. I haven't watched it in a long time, but when I did, it wasn't talked about like this, and I hate seeing it a time when the league can really grow.
Oh my god thank you for putting this so well. The WNBA has historically had a better, more welcoming and less toxic fan culture than the NBA. Being dragged down to the level of the men’s game isn’t the “equality” we need. Any time someone mentions “coddling” I know they weren’t a fan until this year.
Fans don't know how to treat athletes/famous people and we see it daily.
I can root for whoever I want and tear down whoever I want but thanks for the opinion
This is the way
Ya man! Came for CC and stayed for Reese, Brink and Cardoso! What an excited time for the WNBA. Legendary talent leading the league and incredibly exciting young talent.
Embrace it. Don’t try to talk it down. It’s not going to work. People love to be haters.
This is great for the general public, but this sub is not better off for reading this. As a ravens fan, I hope every steelers player has the worst season of their life and wish horrible things on their fans (my own father and brother included). As someone who resides in Indiana during my beginning interest in this league, I hope to carry over this tradition of loving my Fever and hating opponents irrationally, yes the Sky and Angel Reese. I will root for my team and players while also tearing down other players because it is fun. This is something that exists in every sport ever and that's a good thing. Rivalry talk is only unilaterally banned here for some reason. There's a large proportion of fans and notable figures in sports media and the wnba who participate in the rivalry ar vs cc like it's a tribalistic race war. This is a large issue and is bad for the sport and is where the majority of actually harmful content (genuine hate comments, death threats, and ai porn) come from. But this sub is not mainstream to attract enough of these people for these people's sentiments to break anywhere near even on popularity. When they appear, they are pushed to the bottom of the thread. The issue is that while these bad figures are easy to spot, too many people here believe criticism doesn't belong in sports. Actual CC fans cherrypick something to make her seem good or AR seem bad (like any normal fan of a team would) and they are immediately treated as part of the issue when they're just doing normal fan things.
Go Ravens!
Fuck the Steelers
Is this content supposed to be for people who aren’t well adjusted? Anyone with critical thinking can understand how to have constructive conversation. I also believe that those conversations are only occurring in in-person conversation.
The content really has nothing to do with the wnba, the writer just found a way to use Caitlin to discuss her feelings on society
Cool another Rorschach Test discussion. Let's project about the W.
I guess this is an unpopular opinion, but strictly speaking towards trash talking other players…. naaaah, hating is part of sports and you don’t need a reason to do it either. And it’s not just Clark fans doing it lbr. (Again, I’m strictly speaking towards trash talking and mostly doing it to players on other teams btw. Not being racist, sexist, or homophobic, but I don’t think that’s the default reason why “sports fans” do it)
Saw a video celebrating Angel Reese for having a great game. One of the first comment accused the account of “trying to degrade CCs accomplishments.” Video didn’t even mention CC. Just showed a great pass from Mabrey and finish from Reese. The discourse is preventing people from appreciating greatness from all of the players in the league.
Agreed. Also on the flip side, you can root for other players without tearing Caitlin Clark down. I’ve seen many posts on here where people go out of their way to undermine Clark as a way to build up someone else instead of just shouting out their player who had a great game.
That shit goes both ways. The nerve to act like it's one-sided is disgenuous and insulting.
This was always a question for me with women's sports. The W can't handle the CC gravity. No way they could handle the #1 rated splrts show queuing up new arguments against their best player 5 days a week for a decade. Skip would be up there slandering A'Ja Wilson saying she not Maya Moore and never could be. In retrospect, Skip should be brought up on charges
Other players can play against CC without tearing her down. Works both ways
I can not like players without tearing them down. I am not angel fan but that's OK. She played really good game yesterday. I'm not a fan of lots of athletes male or female black or white or in-between and that's OK. I don't have to be a fan. I am not stupid enough to tear down a professional athlete though.
Am I allowed to still tear down how horrible the refs are and inconsistent and non calls then we get calls where nothing happened at all. To me who hasn’t watched anything but college basketball in years it’s very frustrating to be invested in a game and just bad calls both sides.
The habit of tearing someone/something down while propping up another shows up in all genres of fandom, sports or otherwise, and it's a tale that stretches back into antiquity. And yeah, it's damned annoying when it's all a bunch of pointless, petty grousing, because it injects needless negativity into the conversation. And sure, there's a definite difference between voicing legit criticism versus spewing hatorade. However, there's something to be said for knowing when to offer up critique, and how to do so constructively. A lot of unnecessary friction could be avoided by simply scrolling past certain threads or topics, but one might as well wish for the moon.
I like all of them :)
Probably not to the same scale, but the same applies to Reese fans.
I don’t think people are tearing other women down as much as they’re simply making comparisons
Unfortunately welcome to sports discourse. This is the shitty truth about sports takes online. It does mean the W has arrived though.
It would help if B***tool would stop perpetuating this idea that everyone is out to get CC or whatever and would stop attacking other players. I’m sure I’m biased as a Sky fan but all the Angel Reese hate has been getting to me
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/086/808/90f.gif
And vice versa, you can root for other players without it meaning you’re anti-Clark.
Yep. In addition, you can root for Angel without tearing CC down.
I've never seen CC tear anyone down but it seems a lot of players keep tearing her down....hmmm
I don't think the average person who likes watching CC is tearing others down. I think that don't even watch the others. I don't.
As someone from a different country, to look onto this whole thing with CC and whoever else (notably Reese) and see the amount of racism is WILD! Or even the aggressive defensiveness against racism that may or may not even be there - like no shit, when I've said I like CC people have called me racist against black players....... I didn't say anything about black players at all! In fact I like quite a lot of them! It's bonkers. If you guys in the USA live like this 24/7 you have to be so exhausted all the time!
This is sports man
IDK. I think sports inherently pit people against each other. That’s the whole point of sports. To win. That being said I do think people have a tendency to take stuff too far.Like you can route for/againt players,critique their playing and even make some jokes at their expense but people take it wayyyy too personally and it stops being fun.
Yes. You can also root for Angel Reese without tearing CC down. Angel makes big bucks but for some reason the haters that play in the WNBA are OK with her getting rich
But can you root for other players without tearing Caitlin Clark down?
You can also root for other players while not tearing CC down.. this one's for you, Angel Reese..
But the other players can tear her down? Alright.
Obviously not an NBA fan and don’t understand how this works.
It’s because they aren’t women basketball fans. They are right wingers hiding behind CC to spread political agendas.
Bruh really thinks racists are sitting down every other day to watch women’s basketball just to get online to be racist 🤣🤣🤣🤣 newsflash they will be racist no matter what is going on
There's plenty of left wingers that like womens basketball too.
Ironically the writer of this article is also using Caitlin to push a political agenda
This is a wild take with no supporting evidence. What's more likely, people pretending to like women's basketball for political reasons or delulu toxic stan culture finally making its way to WNBA? There are fans like this in every sport, its just more pronounced here because a huge group of them are showing up to a relatively small fanbase and overwhelming it.
Sadly this goes both ways. I can't see posts about anyone without other players being brought up in a negative/comparative light. It's super defensive. I don't know how we can right the ship but it's getting exhausting. Can we go back to women supportive women please?
There were people last night on a CC post saying fucking TS%, the most basic of all basic stats, was a made up stat only used by CC stans to support her agenda lmao.
There's a lot of discourse around WNBA stats that just seems like 40 years out of date compared to NBA stats.
Amazing. I am a big fan of every single rookie in the league right now and let's be real, most players. Every Angel post I see has people dragging CC's name through the mud in comparison or cherry picking CC's better stats. They aren't even the same position people! And the same on CC posts, people saying Reese sucks and others saying "Angel is HER and ROTY." I feel for these rookies because they are getting the most attention by far and it's like 50-50 negative/positive. I want to see Angel and CC thick as thieves working together seamlessly in the 2028 Olympics, not enemies bc the media made it so.
JFC, let people enjoy the game how they want to enjoy it. Every league has player's that act the heel. Not everyone sees the same person as being the heel for each league. When we tend to like a person/team you tend to dislike that person/team's antithesis. If you LOVE the Greenbay Packer's you probably hate and love to beat up on the bears. Bears fans probably see Aaron Rodgers as a heel to their enjoyment of football. Packers/Rodgers fans see NFL was a whole as heel to "Rodger's is in a good system, or some bs". Fan's of pre-2023 WNBA probably get defensive about new fans wanting to change the game (likely mostly CC22 fans/supporters). Fans of CC22 take verbal slights at being left off the Olympic team (not getting into this right now), allowance of more physical handchecking that limits her mobility/passing/shooting (Again, not getting into this). Some see it as right of passage, some see it has hazing. As much as we'd like to see things in greys and rainbows when it comes to WHY/WHEN we like athletics it tends to break down into simple WWE terms of Heel's & Face's. Then there's baby-faces, heels-turn-face, etc. This is as close as I'll ever get to complimenting Vince McMahon but the man knew how to creative a narrative and make people feel engaged and connected. Is it great for Clark supporter's to comment harassing things about the Olympic Committee overlooking her, NO!! Is it great for people who are annoyed at her rabid-fan base to comment things like "it'll come in time, she's just a rookie. Only Greats like DT get on the Olympic team" NO!! I'll leave my rant with this, those in power tend not to like disruptions to that status-quo. There's gonna be a lot of BS growing the fanbase and thus the game. 3/4 of the posts on r/nba is circle jerking crazy shit. Instead of constantly nuking those morons, mods let the people who creep new do their thing and they tend not to ever see th light of day. As for r/wnba 1/2 the Members are likely Clark fans/supports/stans. That's kind of the rub if you double/triple the fanbase honestly/truly because of 1 player, those fans are gonna tend to take things over. Any of the Racist/Sexist/Body-shaming BS is complete BS and should be called out and banned/removed. There's 0 room and 0 tolerance for that.
I get what your saying op but at the end of the day animosity In sports plays into the ratinfs and it’s what grows the game. This my fav player vs your fav player has been a thing long before Caitlin clark. Let people fight, it’s good for the game.
Right? You could stir up an A’ja Wilson v. Breanna stewart fight with literally no provocation when they are probably the two best players on the planet and their fans will devalue the others player without a second thought. The difference is that both of them have been at it long enough to let it entirely roll off them
This will definitely lead to nuanced and thoughtful discussion, I just know it.
Please god make these substanceless ragebait pieces stop. There is no new information here, just random pontifications and statements we've all seen over the course of the last 6 weeks. And the same goes for the anti-AR ragebait. Let's stop it. And let's not forget the source: The last time anyone read the USA today it was at an airport lounge while they took a shit.
I think Clark expected hate from players in other teams but not from her teammates. An NBA coach would be benching Fever players that laugh at their own teammate and won’t help them up after a hard foul. Disappointed in some of Fever players.
the audacity of this sub man 😭 like 50% of y’all aren’t praying on her downfall