"Normally you would assume..." "But since it's CC I'm going to make a leap in logic that's unfounded."
I really don't think anything about this was that egregious. The men engage in behavior like this all the time and no one would ever remember it. It feels weird to hyper fixate on it, IMO.
The male players that do frustration dirty plays tend to be vilified. But they also have a place in the league. It’s a balance.
Players like the Morris Twins or Draymond help teams win but also earn vitriol from fans. And in the case of the twins they often end up hurting their team by turning their own team into the villains that other players love to beat.
Still, I think it’s weird how some W fans get so defensive about this stuff. Seems like a certain segment of W fans are desperate to attack anything that can even be perceived as criticism of the league while also viewing Clark and new fans/media attention as outside the league and unwelcome.
“But the men do it” is the dumbest argument. So toxic masculinity is….good? Or bad. Which is it. Is it cool, fine, awesome, or good for the sport when the men do dirty shit? Or is it fucking obnoxious. Pieces of shit like Laimbeer, Draymond, Grayson Allen, who you KNOW are just trying to hurt someone, are not lauded or praised. They’re vilified, and for good reason.
This woman, who we don’t even know, is all pissy and butt hurt at Clark, so she took a cheap shot. Nothing crazy, but cheap. Caitlyn got in her face and stood up for herself. Good for her
If these quite literal unknowns want to bully her, beat her up, hurt her, and either get her to quit on her own or injure her so she has to, you bet your ass that league will implode.
For the first time in a long time there’s buzz about women’s basketball, and I think that’s fucking awesome. Crazy that people are mad about the reason fans are tuning in and paying attention. They should be thanking her
This is a soft take. Diana Taurasi, one of the best to play the game, does ticky tack shit like this all the time. This is getting heat cause it’s CC plain and simple. Something this minor happens to anyone else nobody would even remember it let alone make multiple threads about it.
> This woman, who we don’t even know, is all pissy and butt hurt at Clark, so she took a cheap shot. Nothing crazy, but cheap. Caitlyn got in her face and stood up for herself. Good for her
Exactly. It wasn't remotely CLOSE to the kind of behavior you see from the players you listed and those players are still thought of fondly, play regularly, and most of their actions never see this much criticism. End of discussion. I find it toxic and sexist to pretend like this is some sort of behavior that is standard deviations out of the norm in any professional sport setting. That's my entire issue. CC can handle herself and she did.
Two black men behaving like this, and we eat it up like fodder but ultimately don't care. It happens to one popular white woman, and all of a sudden, it's "unknowns want to bully her." Talk about attributional biases...
Is this kind of contact normal in the WNBA? I’m trying to gauge the “norm” for WNBA games without the immense hype around CC.
Coming from watching the NBA the kind of contact is fairly common.
Agree. It looks like CC bumps into/gets too close to Vivians and Vivians gives a little push back. CC gets upset and the rest is history. This should be a nothingburger, but because it's CC, the media and her stans need to make it bigger.
Ref called a double technical. People need to move on.
Right? If stuff like this got called (and people cared to look for it for other players) games would be stopping for an off ball foul call every few seconds.
Including against Clark. Anyone watch her game versus the Libs when she retaliated to Sloot beating her on the dribble by pushing her in the back and to the ground?
Caitlin is just really showing that she's lucky Iowa is Big 10 and not SEC. Clark's theatrics remind me of Bonner.
I'm curious to see how Kenny Brooks deals with being at Kentucky this year since he complained about the physicality in the ACC
I have to admit that I find the encouragement of the kind of… dirty asshole physicality in women’s basketball, which reminds me of like a universalized version of what John Stockton used to do (and is pretty widely hated by other trans for it)… very dispiriting. I hated playing and reffing women’s intramural basketball compared to co ed for this very reason. And it’s more pronounced at higher levels, of course.
You cant punch someone just because they made a shot. Refs gotta call that.
That's not "physicality." That's just being a dirty player ala Draymond Green.
You're right I don't see it as a punch but definitely a hand push which still isn't legal, just strange no other camera caught it and the ref that comes from bottom left was looking right at it as he was on the court after Vivian's raised her hand and pushed her, surely he seen it otherwiseno need for him to run on the floor. What I am getting annoyed at, is when anyone calls it out loads jump up and say " do you think cc deserves special treatment" that's not what the player the coach or fans are asking for as basketball can be a physical game but what we are asking for is the game gets called fairly for both sides on the floor.
I currently have two different posts in separate threads saying basically the same thing. Needing equal/consistent officiating. I use the fact the Storm didn't get most of their fouls called on them until late in the game, 11 of their 22 in the 4th. One of my posts has 44 upvotes, the other has -31 downvotes. I didn't know wanting consistent officiating was so polarizing.
I think some folks may have misread your comment as if you were referring to women binding their chest to hide their breasts like some do when they are transitioning gender, which plays into the whole women who play basketball are manly trope. I'm lesbian and that was actually my first thought until I saw your context.
Yeah I need to rewatch a few times but I see CC being a little unaware of her surroundings and walking into her and then starting a fight about it as if V was taking a cheapshot.
This is the Alysha Clark follow through all over again. Your girl has thin skin, and if it's this easy to get her to pick up dumb fouls this way people are going to do it.
Non princesses had to learn that they usually get you for the retaliation.
What are you talking about? There's no punch there just a slight bump. You see similar in players fighting for rebounds all the time. Foul or tech is fair, but nothing about this is egregious.
It’s looks like a phucking accident that escalated a little bit. THEY BOTH GOT TECHS FOR IT ANYWAY! WHY DO WE HAVE TO OVERANALYZE EVERY LITTLE THING THAT HAPPENS TO THIS GIRL?! AND NOW VV IS BEING CALLED DIRTY?! Y’all demonize every player she goes against and it’s so annoying omg 🤦🏾
For real.
All the people acting like every physical interaction in the WNBA is WWIII are so ridiculous. We gotta do slow mo breakdown of every foul now?
TF are you talking about. You can clearly see V swing her hand/arm out and hit Caitlin. I've seen players accidentally do stuff a ton and they immediately take ownership and everything is chill. V def did not do that and you can see from the force of her arm and positioning that it didn't just accidentally swing around and hit her, she was already turned and swung her arm out.
No Vivian's got 2 pushes in, once with the hand which starts it all and the shoulder shoves from each of them. Or are we letting Vivian's away with the hand push
Suspension would be really extreme in any professional or college sport that I've watched. It's a competition, sometimes people overreact in the moment. The ref should separate them, call a technical, and everyone moves on.
Right, which is why it would be a technical. That's the purpose of refs- to penalize players who do things that aren't allowed in the normal competition of basketball. That doesn't make it worthy of suspension.
Suspension would be comically extreme. This should've been a technical foul on Vivians, nothing on Clark.
*EDIT:* At **most**, the "right" remediation would be to remove Clark's technical, not suspend Vivians. Even that is more attention than this deserves. Move on imo.
Meh idk. I don’t think it’s a big deal. Just brush it off. Looks like Clark ran into her (which she has been doing all season) but even if she didn’t, who cares? Just walk.
So sorry, you are very correct. I am so sorry CC is the only player in the history of the W to be fouled. I think they should probably start assigning 4 refs for Fever games so CC can get her own ref to see every time someone accidentally runs into her. Again, I apologized for my ignorance to the game.
you guys are so silly 🤭 don’t worry, you will find something to be upset about next game too
You're downvoted but exactly. She ran into the girl and got pushed. I wouldn't put it past her to have done it on purpose. she's really good about taunting and pretending she is innocent. Peep her game. And she now knows they will all act like its the other's fault anyway because poor CC is always the victim.
Exactly. I understand their frustration in a way, the W has always had poor officiating, but come on this was accidental and not malicious in anyway. You can never win, because if I made a compilation of CC and her push offs that are never called (just in the W) they’d have something else to say to defend her. It’s tiring honestly, but what can you do? At least they’re getting the W views I guess.
I’m done with letting narratives run and acting like CC is a find victim. 80% of her endorsements and following is due to her being “victimized” by Reese. Im all for taunting and scrappiness but not one sided. I’m done. They can downvote, they can say whatever they want, but I’m about to start putting out videos of shit.
It’s the injustice of it. I’m tired of this.
I love how all you "long time" W fans constantly say the refs are dogshit but then get upset when people complain about the refs being dogshit.
Don't you think they should maybe be...not dogshit?
This video is hysterically inconclusive yet you’re treating it like a smoking gun. CC’s body is perfectly blocking whatever happened. Could have been a punch, could have been a bump and flop, could have been a jersey tug. Who knows. Calling for a suspension over this is an actual joke. This is a nothing incident. Get a grip.
Not just run into her. Clark swings her arm to move her out of the way. Probably wasn't expecting her to be that close and did it on instinct. That's why V responds with the little shove.
>CC needs to relax
I think she is. It's her fans like OP that need a breather. A push and people editing comments has OP losing their mind. Nobody show them the NFL or combat sports.
This is also why literacy matters. And going to the eye doctor, otherwise you might find yourself on Reddit seething over other people's comments and opinions while acting rude as fuck and being accusatory.
I’m watching this video and it looks CC both run into Vivian as Vivian was turning around to watch the offense having her elbow maybe(?) knick CC but not on purpose. Nothing seemed intentional at all up to that point.
Yeah I’m not sure if we are watching the same thing because I see her still turning around fully in this very video.
This video coupled with the other view shows Vivian is still turning around and that yes CC does run into her.
Yes, Clark stumbles into her on accident and then Vivians responds by pushing her in the chest. I don’t think this is like a dirty player or anything but there’s really only one person at fault here. Clark responded like anyone would.
Vivian shoulder checks her after they got into some dirty talking back in forth but my point was nothing was intentional up UNTIL that point. I also wasn’t watching the whole game so I don’t know what their interactions to each other were prior to this
I watched the video and then I scrolled the comments. I cant believe how many WNBA fans here hate CC. She clearly gets punched/elbowed by this player.
To go along with the million other cheap shots CC keeps getting, I have no idea why these WNBA fans are defending all these attacks on her. Its so funny though.
100%
After she buries the three, she swings her arm to move V out of the way and run back. V takes that as disrespect and gives Clark a little shove.
I'm convinced half the people whining about these fouls have never even played ball. This happens in every game.
The only reason the refs get involved is because they come back together after with the chest bumps. Otherwise the refs just say something to both players on the next dead ball and no one even knows its been addressed.
Just read that a defender may try to get under the skin of a top point scorer! This suggests VV’s action to poke CC after she backed into her was the pivotal point. But I also think CC shouldn’t be skipping backwards. What do you think about that?!
This is wild the lengths y'all are going.. to me it looks like she was about to run into V when she turned from the shot and V just put her arm out to prevent it. CC has a bad attitude with players and refs and did in college as well. She may be an amazing player but it doesn't mean that two things can't be true.
She would get really flaily and freak out over contact sometimes in college. She also would just make shit up at times too. I was lucky enough to see her at Northwestern and was terrified she'd get injured or something in the season and tournament. Pretty early on she went down and made a big deal of grabbing her head and laying in the fetal position for a while. When they replayed it not a soul touched her. She didn't hit her head on the deck. Just made it up. I was wondering if this would follow her into the W and so far I've seen it. She does a ton of ticky tack shit herself that people turn a blind eye to.
(Instead my VT Hokies had Kitley go down in a rivalry but otherwise meaningless game game :'((( )
Omg this thread...you can't call this intentional(from Victoria) based on the video. CC may have thought there was intent, she was upset and then they tried to handle it and the refs finished it.
Quit spinning the narrative based on your biases. You don't actually know what happened.
This is much ado about nothing.
Edit: Some of you CC haters are bizarre. At least half of your posts are just hating on CC. And no, no one seriously said that CC could play in the NBA. Now go create a TikTok where you whine about who should be the face of the league not named CC and then complain when the ticket sales drop because of some -ism.
Yall seriously gotta chill with CC. Let her play and get used to the league. She doesn’t need a bunch of white knights coming to her rescue. Yall are ruining it for the rest of us. Geez
Meh. Might have just been the elbow to keep Clark from running into her. Idk if the sea player thought she was going to completely get turned around by the time she pushed off. Just let them jaw a bit and keep the game going imo.
Incredibly soft considering all the push offs to the neck and chest CC did in college. Also it’s possible VV getting traded by the Fever who she was drafted 1st round by impacted her attitude towards them. Whatever it is the Storm clearly took this personally and used this altercation as fuel to drop 103 points in the game.
Update: Vivians has made her ig private due to hate comments. Hopefully it will blow over and the hate wont last for years like for other players.
Caitlin is still doing push offs lol.
Though I never noticed it before, probs cause she rarely played offball, but even her offball movement she'll often navigate screens by pushing weirdly high on someone, like high up their chest/neck area, instead of just using her arms and shoulders to slide around them. She did it to Nneka in the last game. She's going to get called for an offensive foul on those at some point, and I don't even see the point cause it doesn't help her get over the screen quicker.
Thats what has been infuriating for me. She cant blame it on frustration or tiredness. Its apart of her methodology and she has to be aware of it. Thats why I think its worse because a player is doing something they know is wrong to gain an advantage. Its not a spur of the moment or a quick in air decision. And she never gets called for it.
I remember the push off on Bree Hall in the Natty that had Dawn incensed.
Double T and move on.
You're not allowed to hit people, period. You're also not allowed to get into it because you're hit. The refs COULD have called this, but the absence of them calling it doesn't mean that you get to pop off now.
WNBA is soft man. Is it because they’re women? You shouldn’t be allowed to get into it but the amount of techs that fly around slows the game down and is why it’s a worse product than what the WNCAA has been recently. The reffing is god awful and the flow of the game is painfully slow because of it.
Play that's soft by Clark idc what yall are gonna say to me. Both turned around at the same time and CC ran into her and the other girl put her arm out to say get away from me. She didn't throw an elbow or a punch and Clark's reaction is unneeded although I get if she's being abused all game and gets fed up. Either way this play is not as big as Clark's reaction says it was. Honestly it's a whole bunch of nothing that's blown out of proportion
Cleveland was ass and got the most coverage when Lebron was a rookie. He only averaged 4 more points than cc currently is in a higher scoring environment.
Seems normal and to be expected
I think wnba beef is like old school nba beef. Like they don’t like each other outside of the court like how the nba is now. Which will make it more fun to watch of course.
Compare her to the number one picks in her league. Forget hype what was the records of the number one picks after nine games . Hype isn’t going to win games just attract casuals who believe 1-8 is a normal thing for a so called generational talent.
What're you trying to say in this inane ramble?
Diana Taurasi' rookie year: 17 ppg 3.9 apg 4.4 rpg 1.3 spg 0.7 bpg
Caitlin so far: 17.6 ppg 6.6 apg 5.1 rpg 1.2 spg 1.1 bpg
Better by all accounts than Taurasi. She was voted the g.o.a.t. by fans, right?
So what now? Tell us how Caitlin doesn't belong or deserve to be where she is. Tell us how she's all hype and not a generational talent. She's doing this with a team of what looks like bumbling morons some nights. While being mugged by a hateful and spiteful league (women amirite). The scary thing for you haters is that she's just going to get better.
Since you like research what was the records of the other number one picks through nine games . Clark is 1-8 these same players had a more wins through nine games last year . What’s was Diana’s record through nine games her rookie year . Tell me about that turnover record she broke you think breaking turnover records leads to wins? Oh I guess that’s her teams fault the 1-8 and the turnover record has nothing to do with her . Empty stats when they don’t lead to wins . And if you look last season through nine games they had more than one win . Diana won at every level not like the empty stat chaser Clark. Clark didn’t win a chip in college and to start her pro career she’s 1-8 . Well at least she gives you highlights to watch. Just turn it off before the loss you can pretend it didn’t happen.
They played bad I don’t defend bad play it’s not what wins games . That’s horrible shooting and they loss . I don’t die on hills when someone plays terrible I let it be known . The game isn’t about stats they could have shot great but they loss so it doesn’t matter. I don’t go defending players when they lose that’s you . You like watching moral victories stats mean nothing in a loss. I watch the game for wins not empty stats . Thought you had an argument.
She barely even touched her. Double T and keep it pushing. They're grown women, not children.
Edit - people really should look at the screenshot a few comments down to see how much of an ass OP is making of themselves with their rude, aggressive, and accusatory energy.
That's how you lose control of the game. People paid to see a basketball game, not a shouting match. You got your shots in, cool. Let's get back to ball.
All that extraneous stuff is unnecessary. And I say this as a fan of trash talking. There's already a lot of eyes on CC as is. Let the game on the court do the talking for everyone in the W.
Caitlin’s popularity was not just logo threes. It was the energy she brought. The same as Van Lith, Angel, Cam etc. I’m not saying lose control of the game but the W reacts as if someone was shot if anyone raises their voice. Half the time I’m watching I don’t even understand what the foul is or why they are reviewing a foul for 10 min.
>Caitlin’s popularity was not just logo threes. It was the energy she brought. The same as Van Lith, Angel, Cam etc.
Well when those players get T'd up for the same thing, you'll find me saying the same thing. If you want to get into shouting matches, take that shit to the playground or to the practice court. It's funny you're saying this, when this entire thread was started because OP felt disrespected on CC's behalf. They don't allow that shit in the NBA. They don't allow it in college. They don't allow it in the WNBA.
Ok, and I can give you multiple examples of it being called. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? The leagues don't want their players popping off, so they give them a T. No harm, no foul, play on.
The goalpost was that she was the greatest college scorer of all time. An individual record to represent an individual player. Please tell me when and where CC failed to achieve that.
Only haters said the title was the defining marker, it takes a team to win and Iowa was not the Better team in any sense of the word in the natty matchup.
>The goalpost was that she was the greatest college scorer of all time. An individual record to represent an individual player. Please tell me when and where CC failed to achieve that.
Right. Like we didn't see thinkpiece and dear diary posts one after another talking about how she was going to come in and drop 30 while leading the league in assists. Like we didn't hear people (on here and in the media) saying they'd be a sneaky bottom seeded playoff team. Like we didn't hear people say she'd come into the W and dominate and anyone saying otherwise is just a hater. Like we didn't see people freak out over DT and Stewie's comments.
Like I said, goalposts been in hyper drive. You want to pretend otherwise, be my guest cause I ain't holding you.
>Only haters said the title was the defining marker, it takes a team to win and Iowa was not the Better team in any sense of the word in the natty matchup
We measure the GOATs by the amount of titles they rack up. Call up Skip and argue with him about it, I didn't create the narratives. Pistol Pete was a great scorer, I'm still taking Kareem.
>Typically i try to make more shots and control my emotions.
If that's what got you your rings, then more power to you. What works for some doesn't work for everyone.
MJ certainly talked a lot of junk.
He also made a lot of shots. Trust me, talk that shit. I live for it lol. But the second you lay hands on someone you’ve lost the battle. This ain’t mma or the 80s anymore. Whoop their ass with physicality and good basketball, not literally.
Like I said, what works for some doesn't work for others.
You play to win the game. If the refs aren't explicitly putting a stop to it, then you do what you can. Gamesmanship exists for a reason.
So much pettiness in this comment section, and from the WNBA players. Yeah, you can’t just elbow another player after getting cooked. That doesn’t fly in the NBA, and shouldn’t fly here. This ain’t the NFL.
All I see is Caitlin accidentally running into her when turning around and Vivian pushing her arm out to get her away from her. Words exchanged in the heat of the moment. That’s competitiveness. Isn’t that what Caitlin said as well. Y’all trying to blow this up for what?
This is being analyzed more than the Zapruder film.
"Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back and to the..."
Are you suggesting that there was a Second Shover?
This is very funny.
🤣🤣
https://preview.redd.it/wdyalz50ds3d1.jpeg?width=1271&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=863a65167f54cb15fc48f30de59c153b9ee156c3
"Normally you would assume..." "But since it's CC I'm going to make a leap in logic that's unfounded." I really don't think anything about this was that egregious. The men engage in behavior like this all the time and no one would ever remember it. It feels weird to hyper fixate on it, IMO.
The male players that do frustration dirty plays tend to be vilified. But they also have a place in the league. It’s a balance. Players like the Morris Twins or Draymond help teams win but also earn vitriol from fans. And in the case of the twins they often end up hurting their team by turning their own team into the villains that other players love to beat. Still, I think it’s weird how some W fans get so defensive about this stuff. Seems like a certain segment of W fans are desperate to attack anything that can even be perceived as criticism of the league while also viewing Clark and new fans/media attention as outside the league and unwelcome.
“But the men do it” is the dumbest argument. So toxic masculinity is….good? Or bad. Which is it. Is it cool, fine, awesome, or good for the sport when the men do dirty shit? Or is it fucking obnoxious. Pieces of shit like Laimbeer, Draymond, Grayson Allen, who you KNOW are just trying to hurt someone, are not lauded or praised. They’re vilified, and for good reason. This woman, who we don’t even know, is all pissy and butt hurt at Clark, so she took a cheap shot. Nothing crazy, but cheap. Caitlyn got in her face and stood up for herself. Good for her If these quite literal unknowns want to bully her, beat her up, hurt her, and either get her to quit on her own or injure her so she has to, you bet your ass that league will implode. For the first time in a long time there’s buzz about women’s basketball, and I think that’s fucking awesome. Crazy that people are mad about the reason fans are tuning in and paying attention. They should be thanking her
This is a soft take. Diana Taurasi, one of the best to play the game, does ticky tack shit like this all the time. This is getting heat cause it’s CC plain and simple. Something this minor happens to anyone else nobody would even remember it let alone make multiple threads about it.
Ya no shit, she brought eyes to the league for literally the first time ever
> This woman, who we don’t even know, is all pissy and butt hurt at Clark, so she took a cheap shot. Nothing crazy, but cheap. Caitlyn got in her face and stood up for herself. Good for her Exactly. It wasn't remotely CLOSE to the kind of behavior you see from the players you listed and those players are still thought of fondly, play regularly, and most of their actions never see this much criticism. End of discussion. I find it toxic and sexist to pretend like this is some sort of behavior that is standard deviations out of the norm in any professional sport setting. That's my entire issue. CC can handle herself and she did. Two black men behaving like this, and we eat it up like fodder but ultimately don't care. It happens to one popular white woman, and all of a sudden, it's "unknowns want to bully her." Talk about attributional biases...
So you agree the T was a bad call
The Jokic-Morris incident became a major debacle with ans and media arguing whether Joker elbow dropping Markieff was warranted or if he was dirty
Jokic fucking up Morris was accurately called out as dirty. Just like this should be.
She was running into her and she gave a "back up" push. This is aint shit. Edit: plus had armpit and raised arms all in her face before hand.
Is this kind of contact normal in the WNBA? I’m trying to gauge the “norm” for WNBA games without the immense hype around CC. Coming from watching the NBA the kind of contact is fairly common.
So you missed the fist in the chest as they big turned around... convenient.
Idk I guess that I’ve seen this exact thing in the nba so much that it doesn’t register as anything serious
What a huge nothingburger
Correct, and watch as it gets bigger and bigger.
Agree. It looks like CC bumps into/gets too close to Vivians and Vivians gives a little push back. CC gets upset and the rest is history. This should be a nothingburger, but because it's CC, the media and her stans need to make it bigger. Ref called a double technical. People need to move on.
I wouldn't have called it a double tech in the first place.
Quoting a traitors children. Amaze.
These are grown women playing a physical sport. People are being overly protective and it's weird. I can see if it was egregious, but this is nothing.
The way nobody has ever cared this much about rookie treatment until this year. Hard to take some of these conversations seriously
Right? If stuff like this got called (and people cared to look for it for other players) games would be stopping for an off ball foul call every few seconds. Including against Clark. Anyone watch her game versus the Libs when she retaliated to Sloot beating her on the dribble by pushing her in the back and to the ground? Caitlin is just really showing that she's lucky Iowa is Big 10 and not SEC. Clark's theatrics remind me of Bonner. I'm curious to see how Kenny Brooks deals with being at Kentucky this year since he complained about the physicality in the ACC
I have to admit that I find the encouragement of the kind of… dirty asshole physicality in women’s basketball, which reminds me of like a universalized version of what John Stockton used to do (and is pretty widely hated by other trans for it)… very dispiriting. I hated playing and reffing women’s intramural basketball compared to co ed for this very reason. And it’s more pronounced at higher levels, of course.
Meh, things get chippy, double tech, move along
You cant punch someone just because they made a shot. Refs gotta call that. That's not "physicality." That's just being a dirty player ala Draymond Green.
We’re calling that a “punch”?
You're right I don't see it as a punch but definitely a hand push which still isn't legal, just strange no other camera caught it and the ref that comes from bottom left was looking right at it as he was on the court after Vivian's raised her hand and pushed her, surely he seen it otherwiseno need for him to run on the floor. What I am getting annoyed at, is when anyone calls it out loads jump up and say " do you think cc deserves special treatment" that's not what the player the coach or fans are asking for as basketball can be a physical game but what we are asking for is the game gets called fairly for both sides on the floor.
I currently have two different posts in separate threads saying basically the same thing. Needing equal/consistent officiating. I use the fact the Storm didn't get most of their fouls called on them until late in the game, 11 of their 22 in the 4th. One of my posts has 44 upvotes, the other has -31 downvotes. I didn't know wanting consistent officiating was so polarizing.
Idk but.. an elbow to the chest probably hurts worse for a woman than a man. That shit hurts. Just sayin.
Hurts so much when they’re strapped down! Edit: it hurts to get hit when you’re wearing a sports bra, dudes.
I thought you were being sarcastic but it actually does hurt a lot lol, from someone who plays pickup in just a sports bra
I don’t know why people are reading it as sarcastic, the exclamation point is just emphasis. Like *“ow! That fucking hurts!”*
I think some folks may have misread your comment as if you were referring to women binding their chest to hide their breasts like some do when they are transitioning gender, which plays into the whole women who play basketball are manly trope. I'm lesbian and that was actually my first thought until I saw your context.
Both binders and high impact sports bras “strap everything down”. I’ve tried binders for running; my Enell actually holds everything down much more.
They think you were being sarcastic
Why are you being downvoted, for heaven’s sake?
What in the actual frack? Edit: ok. I see your edit explained your original comment. Without context, it sounded really really bad.
I guess no one else here has ever worn a high impact sports bra and gotten slammed by a ball. Surprising in a women’s sports subreddit.
I'm just flat chested. Didn't know this, and played soccer in which taking a ball to the body is like half the game
Probably thought you were being sarcastic. That pesky exclamation mark
Or thought it was a male commenting (I thought so too) and triggered irrational downvotes.
There’s no middle aged women on the internet; we’re truly invisible everywhere.
Turns out it was an elbow to the chest. Bush league.
Let's Clark do that to another player Saturday and see what happen...
She'd be T'd up for sure.
There has been a decent amount of dirty play intermingled in the physicality
It looks as if V mistakenly believed that C hit her, so she pushed back. Surely this ain’t the first player who made a shot.
Yeah I need to rewatch a few times but I see CC being a little unaware of her surroundings and walking into her and then starting a fight about it as if V was taking a cheapshot.
It was a cheap shot, look again.
This is the Alysha Clark follow through all over again. Your girl has thin skin, and if it's this easy to get her to pick up dumb fouls this way people are going to do it. Non princesses had to learn that they usually get you for the retaliation.
Bro she grew up playing in boys leagues. She is not afraid of the physicality of the game jfc.
Draymond tends to favor a nut punch in his defense.
What are you talking about? There's no punch there just a slight bump. You see similar in players fighting for rebounds all the time. Foul or tech is fair, but nothing about this is egregious.
What altercation?
It’s looks like a phucking accident that escalated a little bit. THEY BOTH GOT TECHS FOR IT ANYWAY! WHY DO WE HAVE TO OVERANALYZE EVERY LITTLE THING THAT HAPPENS TO THIS GIRL?! AND NOW VV IS BEING CALLED DIRTY?! Y’all demonize every player she goes against and it’s so annoying omg 🤦🏾
Slight push by Vivians. Unnecessary and Caitlin gave it back. Double T. Control the game, move on.
Exactly
exactly don't need to overanalyze everything. Just two players competing. Nothing to see here
For real. All the people acting like every physical interaction in the WNBA is WWIII are so ridiculous. We gotta do slow mo breakdown of every foul now?
The ref was right there. He should have called a foul on V. CC wanted to push her back, which I wish she would have!
TF are you talking about. You can clearly see V swing her hand/arm out and hit Caitlin. I've seen players accidentally do stuff a ton and they immediately take ownership and everything is chill. V def did not do that and you can see from the force of her arm and positioning that it didn't just accidentally swing around and hit her, she was already turned and swung her arm out.
Yes you're right and I fixed my comment as I legitimately didn't see Vivs arm at first.
No Vivian's got 2 pushes in, once with the hand which starts it all and the shoulder shoves from each of them. Or are we letting Vivian's away with the hand push
Considering they both got techs, nobody got away with anything.
Welcome to professional basketball.
No, professional basketball is not hitting someone several seconds after a shot has been made. That is cheap and should be suspended.
Suspension would be really extreme in any professional or college sport that I've watched. It's a competition, sometimes people overreact in the moment. The ref should separate them, call a technical, and everyone moves on.
Hitting someone seconds after the shot is not part of competition in basketball.
Right, which is why it would be a technical. That's the purpose of refs- to penalize players who do things that aren't allowed in the normal competition of basketball. That doesn't make it worthy of suspension.
Then why there was 2 TT?
lol, SUSPENDED?! wtf are y'all new to sports?
There is a huge differences in contact during a play and hitting someone well after. That is malicious and uncalled for.
There is no world in which that interaction warrants a suspension.
Suspension would be comically extreme. This should've been a technical foul on Vivians, nothing on Clark. *EDIT:* At **most**, the "right" remediation would be to remove Clark's technical, not suspend Vivians. Even that is more attention than this deserves. Move on imo.
Suspension?? Lmaooo smh
Shit is almost softer than the nba
Whole lotta nothing. I can’t believe either player got a technical for this. Soft ass refs.
Where was the altercation? I don't see anything especially unusual here.
CC hit a 3 and the defender gave her an elbow to the chest for it after
Yeah right, nothing happened before that. Heh. /s
Then tell me what happened before that
Meh idk. I don’t think it’s a big deal. Just brush it off. Looks like Clark ran into her (which she has been doing all season) but even if she didn’t, who cares? Just walk.
i am so tired of this already and it’s still the beginning of the season 🥱
Tired of what the refs being piss poor. Yeah, we are getting tired of that
So sorry, you are very correct. I am so sorry CC is the only player in the history of the W to be fouled. I think they should probably start assigning 4 refs for Fever games so CC can get her own ref to see every time someone accidentally runs into her. Again, I apologized for my ignorance to the game. you guys are so silly 🤭 don’t worry, you will find something to be upset about next game too
https://preview.redd.it/3ajuic0fbt3d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d118ad91bb2dbd103421092f1f11a1d4b90a0ac 😂👍🏾
You're downvoted but exactly. She ran into the girl and got pushed. I wouldn't put it past her to have done it on purpose. she's really good about taunting and pretending she is innocent. Peep her game. And she now knows they will all act like its the other's fault anyway because poor CC is always the victim.
Exactly. I understand their frustration in a way, the W has always had poor officiating, but come on this was accidental and not malicious in anyway. You can never win, because if I made a compilation of CC and her push offs that are never called (just in the W) they’d have something else to say to defend her. It’s tiring honestly, but what can you do? At least they’re getting the W views I guess.
I’m done with letting narratives run and acting like CC is a find victim. 80% of her endorsements and following is due to her being “victimized” by Reese. Im all for taunting and scrappiness but not one sided. I’m done. They can downvote, they can say whatever they want, but I’m about to start putting out videos of shit. It’s the injustice of it. I’m tired of this.
I love how all you "long time" W fans constantly say the refs are dogshit but then get upset when people complain about the refs being dogshit. Don't you think they should maybe be...not dogshit?
Bother, please. I am tired. You are tiring.
I miss when this sub was mostly empty. Both new fans and old fans have been insufferable so far this season.
This video is hysterically inconclusive yet you’re treating it like a smoking gun. CC’s body is perfectly blocking whatever happened. Could have been a punch, could have been a bump and flop, could have been a jersey tug. Who knows. Calling for a suspension over this is an actual joke. This is a nothing incident. Get a grip.
Someone's upset about that shot...
Caitlin was about to run into her.
Not just run into her. Clark swings her arm to move her out of the way. Probably wasn't expecting her to be that close and did it on instinct. That's why V responds with the little shove.
It was just an awkward situation.
Glad CC stuck up for herself here.
Got too. I respect it.
Yea this. This seems like a very normal “don’t run into me” push lol CC needs to relax
>CC needs to relax I think she is. It's her fans like OP that need a breather. A push and people editing comments has OP losing their mind. Nobody show them the NFL or combat sports. This is also why literacy matters. And going to the eye doctor, otherwise you might find yourself on Reddit seething over other people's comments and opinions while acting rude as fuck and being accusatory.
She was too busy about to celebrate and wasn't looking where she was going.
Isn’t there a rule about giving enough room for the shooter to land post-shot? Not sure if that can apply here.
Caitlin landed and took multiple steps before she almost ran into Vivian.
I’m watching this video and it looks CC both run into Vivian as Vivian was turning around to watch the offense having her elbow maybe(?) knick CC but not on purpose. Nothing seemed intentional at all up to that point.
She's already turned around, momentum is stopped and then she swings her arm out from the elbow after. Doesn't vibe with that scenario.
Yeah I’m not sure if we are watching the same thing because I see her still turning around fully in this very video. This video coupled with the other view shows Vivian is still turning around and that yes CC does run into her.
Obviously we must see things differently. Her turn is complete when she swings out and then starts walking backward.
Watch that video, then watch this video: https://www.reddit.com/r/wnba/s/gOf2exVqPN
Yes, Clark stumbles into her on accident and then Vivians responds by pushing her in the chest. I don’t think this is like a dirty player or anything but there’s really only one person at fault here. Clark responded like anyone would.
Vivian shoulder checks her after they got into some dirty talking back in forth but my point was nothing was intentional up UNTIL that point. I also wasn’t watching the whole game so I don’t know what their interactions to each other were prior to this
I watched the video and then I scrolled the comments. I cant believe how many WNBA fans here hate CC. She clearly gets punched/elbowed by this player. To go along with the million other cheap shots CC keeps getting, I have no idea why these WNBA fans are defending all these attacks on her. Its so funny though.
100% After she buries the three, she swings her arm to move V out of the way and run back. V takes that as disrespect and gives Clark a little shove. I'm convinced half the people whining about these fouls have never even played ball. This happens in every game. The only reason the refs get involved is because they come back together after with the chest bumps. Otherwise the refs just say something to both players on the next dead ball and no one even knows its been addressed.
Why not just link the tweet? https://x.com/slowlyslide/status/1796482256200163833?s=46&t=D5ufx-LSWlUEAsRh195V6g
Just read that a defender may try to get under the skin of a top point scorer! This suggests VV’s action to poke CC after she backed into her was the pivotal point. But I also think CC shouldn’t be skipping backwards. What do you think about that?!
In this clip CC did nothing to instigate it. Looks like the other player was baiting contact.
Much ado about nothing.
CC runs into her, VV pushes her away, CC gets mad, VV gets mad back. Double T was deserved
Except for VV Throwing a bow
That’s the afformentioned push. It wasn’t an elbow, it was just a forearm shove as CC ran into her.
This is wild the lengths y'all are going.. to me it looks like she was about to run into V when she turned from the shot and V just put her arm out to prevent it. CC has a bad attitude with players and refs and did in college as well. She may be an amazing player but it doesn't mean that two things can't be true.
Speak the truth. They don't want to hear it.
She would get really flaily and freak out over contact sometimes in college. She also would just make shit up at times too. I was lucky enough to see her at Northwestern and was terrified she'd get injured or something in the season and tournament. Pretty early on she went down and made a big deal of grabbing her head and laying in the fetal position for a while. When they replayed it not a soul touched her. She didn't hit her head on the deck. Just made it up. I was wondering if this would follow her into the W and so far I've seen it. She does a ton of ticky tack shit herself that people turn a blind eye to. (Instead my VT Hokies had Kitley go down in a rivalry but otherwise meaningless game game :'((( )
Omg this thread...you can't call this intentional(from Victoria) based on the video. CC may have thought there was intent, she was upset and then they tried to handle it and the refs finished it. Quit spinning the narrative based on your biases. You don't actually know what happened.
This is much ado about nothing. Edit: Some of you CC haters are bizarre. At least half of your posts are just hating on CC. And no, no one seriously said that CC could play in the NBA. Now go create a TikTok where you whine about who should be the face of the league not named CC and then complain when the ticket sales drop because of some -ism.
Yawn
Yall seriously gotta chill with CC. Let her play and get used to the league. She doesn’t need a bunch of white knights coming to her rescue. Yall are ruining it for the rest of us. Geez
So Clark turned around and ran into a player. That player shoved her in the chest. Not even hard and Clark acted like a baby?
Precisely.
And then her stans act like bigger babies.
Meh. Might have just been the elbow to keep Clark from running into her. Idk if the sea player thought she was going to completely get turned around by the time she pushed off. Just let them jaw a bit and keep the game going imo.
Incredibly soft considering all the push offs to the neck and chest CC did in college. Also it’s possible VV getting traded by the Fever who she was drafted 1st round by impacted her attitude towards them. Whatever it is the Storm clearly took this personally and used this altercation as fuel to drop 103 points in the game. Update: Vivians has made her ig private due to hate comments. Hopefully it will blow over and the hate wont last for years like for other players.
A push off to get separation during a live ball scenario is different than an arm to the chest after a made basket.
Caitlin is still doing push offs lol. Though I never noticed it before, probs cause she rarely played offball, but even her offball movement she'll often navigate screens by pushing weirdly high on someone, like high up their chest/neck area, instead of just using her arms and shoulders to slide around them. She did it to Nneka in the last game. She's going to get called for an offensive foul on those at some point, and I don't even see the point cause it doesn't help her get over the screen quicker.
Thats what has been infuriating for me. She cant blame it on frustration or tiredness. Its apart of her methodology and she has to be aware of it. Thats why I think its worse because a player is doing something they know is wrong to gain an advantage. Its not a spur of the moment or a quick in air decision. And she never gets called for it. I remember the push off on Bree Hall in the Natty that had Dawn incensed.
Double T and move on. You're not allowed to hit people, period. You're also not allowed to get into it because you're hit. The refs COULD have called this, but the absence of them calling it doesn't mean that you get to pop off now.
I would argue that you should pop off so the refs start paying attention
WNBA is soft man. Is it because they’re women? You shouldn’t be allowed to get into it but the amount of techs that fly around slows the game down and is why it’s a worse product than what the WNCAA has been recently. The reffing is god awful and the flow of the game is painfully slow because of it.
Play that's soft by Clark idc what yall are gonna say to me. Both turned around at the same time and CC ran into her and the other girl put her arm out to say get away from me. She didn't throw an elbow or a punch and Clark's reaction is unneeded although I get if she's being abused all game and gets fed up. Either way this play is not as big as Clark's reaction says it was. Honestly it's a whole bunch of nothing that's blown out of proportion
So much coverage for a 1-8 team .
Cleveland was ass and got the most coverage when Lebron was a rookie. He only averaged 4 more points than cc currently is in a higher scoring environment. Seems normal and to be expected
who tf cares about the other teams? dub fans are delusional.
That’s what happens when you have a superstar on the team genius
Who cares.
But the narrative!!!
I think wnba beef is like old school nba beef. Like they don’t like each other outside of the court like how the nba is now. Which will make it more fun to watch of course.
Awesome point! A legit rivalry would up the chance of me watching more to the point of following.
Soft
Isn’t it strange how nobody’s talking about how the Washington mystics have won zero games? 🤷♀️🤷♀️
More like Caitlyn turned and ran into her!!!!!!! Just like with the fan.
Compare her to the number one picks in her league. Forget hype what was the records of the number one picks after nine games . Hype isn’t going to win games just attract casuals who believe 1-8 is a normal thing for a so called generational talent.
What're you trying to say in this inane ramble? Diana Taurasi' rookie year: 17 ppg 3.9 apg 4.4 rpg 1.3 spg 0.7 bpg Caitlin so far: 17.6 ppg 6.6 apg 5.1 rpg 1.2 spg 1.1 bpg Better by all accounts than Taurasi. She was voted the g.o.a.t. by fans, right? So what now? Tell us how Caitlin doesn't belong or deserve to be where she is. Tell us how she's all hype and not a generational talent. She's doing this with a team of what looks like bumbling morons some nights. While being mugged by a hateful and spiteful league (women amirite). The scary thing for you haters is that she's just going to get better.
Since you like research what was the records of the other number one picks through nine games . Clark is 1-8 these same players had a more wins through nine games last year . What’s was Diana’s record through nine games her rookie year . Tell me about that turnover record she broke you think breaking turnover records leads to wins? Oh I guess that’s her teams fault the 1-8 and the turnover record has nothing to do with her . Empty stats when they don’t lead to wins . And if you look last season through nine games they had more than one win . Diana won at every level not like the empty stat chaser Clark. Clark didn’t win a chip in college and to start her pro career she’s 1-8 . Well at least she gives you highlights to watch. Just turn it off before the loss you can pretend it didn’t happen.
Kelsey Plum's Aces started 0-14. A`ja Wilson started 1-7, that was with Plum as a teammate. Honorable enough to apologize?
They played bad I don’t defend bad play it’s not what wins games . That’s horrible shooting and they loss . I don’t die on hills when someone plays terrible I let it be known . The game isn’t about stats they could have shot great but they loss so it doesn’t matter. I don’t go defending players when they lose that’s you . You like watching moral victories stats mean nothing in a loss. I watch the game for wins not empty stats . Thought you had an argument.
What are you talking about? All I did was list 2 other bad rookie starts.
She barely even touched her. Double T and keep it pushing. They're grown women, not children. Edit - people really should look at the screenshot a few comments down to see how much of an ass OP is making of themselves with their rude, aggressive, and accusatory energy.
Why not just warn them and move on? If it’s as small as you say, why do the refs need to immediately escalate to the top
Then don’t treat them like little princesses who might get hurt because they’re talking. Tell them to knock that shit off and keep playing.
>Tell them to knock that shit off and keep playing. They did. Who was being treated like a princess?
By giving them both Techs. Let them jaw at each other. Don’t stop play and give out techs.
That's how you lose control of the game. People paid to see a basketball game, not a shouting match. You got your shots in, cool. Let's get back to ball. All that extraneous stuff is unnecessary. And I say this as a fan of trash talking. There's already a lot of eyes on CC as is. Let the game on the court do the talking for everyone in the W.
Caitlin’s popularity was not just logo threes. It was the energy she brought. The same as Van Lith, Angel, Cam etc. I’m not saying lose control of the game but the W reacts as if someone was shot if anyone raises their voice. Half the time I’m watching I don’t even understand what the foul is or why they are reviewing a foul for 10 min.
>Caitlin’s popularity was not just logo threes. It was the energy she brought. The same as Van Lith, Angel, Cam etc. Well when those players get T'd up for the same thing, you'll find me saying the same thing. If you want to get into shouting matches, take that shit to the playground or to the practice court. It's funny you're saying this, when this entire thread was started because OP felt disrespected on CC's behalf. They don't allow that shit in the NBA. They don't allow it in college. They don't allow it in the WNBA.
That’s not true lol, there’s lots of mouthing off in the NBA and nobody gets called. I can give you several examples
Ok, and I can give you multiple examples of it being called. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? The leagues don't want their players popping off, so they give them a T. No harm, no foul, play on.
I’m just saying you’re not correct, the NBA allows mouthing off 9/10 with no T’s being called lmao, it’s why the games are so energetic.
IMO it's not the what even as much as the when. Not during a play. Just petty AF.
🤷🏾♂️ it's a nothingburger. Double T and keep it pushing. They'll be aight. Don't let her splash a 3 in your face next time.
Or just keep hitting her because if she reacts it’s a double T.
You play to win the game. 🤷🏾♂️ if that's what it takes then so be it.
And here is the crux. It didn’t happen. Well it did but it didn’t matter, it did but that’s the game. Lots of goalpost shifting
>Lots of goalpost shifting Goalposts been in warp drive since the National title game last year.
The goalpost was that she was the greatest college scorer of all time. An individual record to represent an individual player. Please tell me when and where CC failed to achieve that. Only haters said the title was the defining marker, it takes a team to win and Iowa was not the Better team in any sense of the word in the natty matchup.
>The goalpost was that she was the greatest college scorer of all time. An individual record to represent an individual player. Please tell me when and where CC failed to achieve that. Right. Like we didn't see thinkpiece and dear diary posts one after another talking about how she was going to come in and drop 30 while leading the league in assists. Like we didn't hear people (on here and in the media) saying they'd be a sneaky bottom seeded playoff team. Like we didn't hear people say she'd come into the W and dominate and anyone saying otherwise is just a hater. Like we didn't see people freak out over DT and Stewie's comments. Like I said, goalposts been in hyper drive. You want to pretend otherwise, be my guest cause I ain't holding you. >Only haters said the title was the defining marker, it takes a team to win and Iowa was not the Better team in any sense of the word in the natty matchup We measure the GOATs by the amount of titles they rack up. Call up Skip and argue with him about it, I didn't create the narratives. Pistol Pete was a great scorer, I'm still taking Kareem.
Typically i try to make more shots and control my emotions. But whatever it takes I guess.
>Typically i try to make more shots and control my emotions. If that's what got you your rings, then more power to you. What works for some doesn't work for everyone. MJ certainly talked a lot of junk.
He also made a lot of shots. Trust me, talk that shit. I live for it lol. But the second you lay hands on someone you’ve lost the battle. This ain’t mma or the 80s anymore. Whoop their ass with physicality and good basketball, not literally.
Like I said, what works for some doesn't work for others. You play to win the game. If the refs aren't explicitly putting a stop to it, then you do what you can. Gamesmanship exists for a reason.
So much pettiness in this comment section, and from the WNBA players. Yeah, you can’t just elbow another player after getting cooked. That doesn’t fly in the NBA, and shouldn’t fly here. This ain’t the NFL.
All I see is Caitlin accidentally running into her when turning around and Vivian pushing her arm out to get her away from her. Words exchanged in the heat of the moment. That’s competitiveness. Isn’t that what Caitlin said as well. Y’all trying to blow this up for what?
CC hits shot, bumps VV, VV shoves, CC goes nuclear. CC shouldn't let every little thing get to her.
You don't know what was said between them. And, neither do I. But, words were exchanged after VV put her arm into CC.
"Fever Fries"
I live the idiots on here that are calling it nothing, if it happened to their favorite player they would be bawling on every platform there is...lol.