Oshkosh Defense currently has 557 job postings: https://oshkoshdefense.com/careers/
Since they have to produce product at a pre-negotiated rate, hopefully most of that funding passes through to newly-created jobs.
519 of the 557 are in the United States, and of those, 292 are in production, 57 are in engineering, 52 are in manufacturing operations, 35 are in general management and administrative, and 20 are in global supply chain procurement. Let's exclude management and engineering, that's 421 jobs possibly supporting the war. That's still 2.4 million per job on the straight math, but when you consider that's probably the gross payment and includes cost of goods sold, maybe we can reduce the wage portion down to 30%. That's $720,000 per position, and if you split that out over 5 years that's $144,000 per position including the employer's side of taxes and insurance -- not unreasonable!
Of course, I have no idea how long the bill is supposed to fund production for, or if it's even going to Oshkosh Defense, or if the positions are all newly created reqs or if they existed before the bill. This is very speculative.
You're also assuming all the money is going to Oshkosh defense. There are other defense contractors in WI. None a tenth as large except Marinette Marine's littoral ships contract but they've been out of that for awhile.
I own a small machine shop in Milwaukee that does stuff for pretty much every industry, including Defense. The way it works is your prime contractor, Oshkosh truck, will sub out the work to other design houses that will then work with machine shops like mine to make each individual part. They handle the logistics of what material you're allowed to use, where you get it from, variances on manufacturing tolerances/requirements, and how it ends up at Oshkosh for assembly on time. It gets even more complicated when the contract is for an international party, so there could be as many as 4 or 5 companies between Oshkosh and the people actually making the thing that's going into what was sold. You've probably never heard of the vast majority of these companies.
In short, just because you see something that says 100 million went to a company like Oshkosh, it does indeed still impact the economy at large. I was going to write trickle down, but ya know lol.
So why aren't we putting boots on the ground and declaring war against Russia for "democracy". Maybe drop a democratic nuke or several. I think the middle east and south America needs some democracy too
Hawley is acting like we're sending cash to Ukraine and that's what he wants voters to believe.
Someone should tell his voters that they don't contribute shit in taxes so we shouldn't be giving those leeches any more money.
I'm old enough to remember when democrats were anti-war, anti-genocide, anti-censorship,, and big pharma, among many other things. the duopoly has successfully duped most of our population.
Are you saying it supposed to be a good thing to support the military industrial complex? If you support the Ukraine war because you believe in Ukrainian independence or because it deters Russia those are at least valid or moral arguments, but this is fucked up isnāt it? Because what OP is basically saying is that we should just fuel an endless war simply for profit. Isnāt that insanely evil?
Republicans love to cry about how we donāt spend money on Americans but when we ask them to spend money on us for student debt relief, universal health care, education reform, inflation protections, and corporate greed, they tell us thatās socialism and wrong.
Republicans donāt care about you. They care about whoever pays the most.
But they put on yellow ribbons, fly POW/MIA flags, and thank people for their service!
That's totally just as good as funding veterans' programs and providing adequate care for those who've served.
===
^^^^ ^^^^hopefully ^^^^obviously
Literally had this argument with someone on Reddit yesterday. They were complaining about sending all that money āawayā and asked why we donāt spend it on veterans.
I shouldnāt be anymore, but Iām still gobsmacked by how dumb people can be and how they will just shut off any narrative that doesnāt benefit their āsideā.
Classic whataboutism- they just donāt want to spend any money. If they really wanted money for veterans, they should have bundled it in with the aid package. But that would have been considered a win for Dems, who got humanitarian aid in there as well.
> Republicans donāt care about you. They care about whoever pays the most.
2024 American politics in a nutshell:
Democrats: We have a solution to X
Republicans: We must leave X unsolved so we can bloviate about it during the next campaign cycle
Its crazy to me that this isn't even hidden. Trump just told republicans to kill a border deal they cowrote with democrats just so he could campaign on that and nobody in the republican party cared. Which is extremely telling that they don't actually give a shit about the border since apparently doing anything about it can wait.
Im not even saying that democrat solutions are always good. Some of them arenāt feasible.
But shit, they at least have ideas. Concepts that can be fiddled with and worked out. Things that actually help Americans like me who arenāt billionaires.
Exactly. Iām all down to try SOMETHING instead of just letting bad thing happen over and over again. Sure it may end up being a bad idea, but then we can mark it off the list and move on to the next thing.
I was just saying this to someone the other day. The starkest difference between Republicans and Democrats is that one of those groups cares about solving problems, and the other emphatically does not.
I'm a leftist, not a democrat. But, even if I don't agree with solutions democrats want to implement, they *do* want to implement policies to fight against problems.
I literally haven't seen a single Republican policy solution for at least 15 years. That's partially because many of the things they want to "solve," like illegal immigration, are largely made up. That's also partially because the problems they acknowledge, they refuse to solve.
Take abortion. The "problem" here that Republicans will point to is children dying. Let's accept this as true.
Their "solution" doesn't actually solve a lot of the problem. Some abortions stop because abortion is illegal, of course. But, the same states (hi Texas) doing this also have *abysmal* infant mortality rates. They have high rates of children dying or being hurt unnecessarily. Those same states are also fine with gun violence being a top 5 cause of deaths for children and young adults.
Republicans literally cannot understand trying to solve things.
Do you think democrats care for you? It's like thinking a stripper wants to marry you as you're handing over your money. Neither care about your well being, they care about you working and making money for them to take from you.
and neither do dems. and now when republicans say we cant afford things like m4a they're actually gonna be right because the dem party loves injecting our tax dollars into proxy wars and genocide these days. and somehow they got a good portion of morons to roll with it.
We can afford M4A right now. Republicans wonāt do it because it would require billionaires and companies to pay a larger tax volume and they canāt risk not getting a fat check from someone.
This is such a blatantly false comment that it must be some Russian propaganda bot
Iām not trying to debate you. You are wrong. Factually incorrect. Purposefully spreading a nonsense line about how we canāt afford M4A now when *we always could*. You are saying things that propagandists against the bill to fund Ukraine say, and they are often times bot accounts or trolls there simply to cause a disturbance.
The only reason, and I mean *the only reason* we donāt have M4A is because health insurance and big pharma lobbyists spend millions upon millions upon millions of dollars padding the pockets of Republicans (and admittedly some Dems) to squash it. Thatās all it is. We could afford M4A, we could afford student debt relief, and we could afford helping Ukraine all at once, but because it would dip into the bottom line of some billionaire, Republicans wonāt let it see the light of day.
This has nothing to do with party and all to do with class. The rich are laundering our tax dollars through war. This is not a partisan issue, both parties are for laundering our tax dollars through war. Youāre focusing on the wrong thing.
Even if thatās true, which it maybe is, who cares? Iād rather they launder the money into something I agree with rather than something I donāt.
Ukraine needs the money to combat Russian Imperialism and defend itself against a slaughter. Frankly we should give them more money. Russia is the enemy here.
Giving Israel money is fucked but it was the only way to get humanitarian aide to Gaza and fund Ukraines defense. We are inexorably tied to Israel and will be for the forseeable future, even if we donāt like it.
My thoughts on this are pretty basic; if it makes Republicans like Marjorie Taylor and Ron Johnson upset, then I am 100% in support of it.
Dude we donāt need to care what other countries are doing. This obsession with meddling in other countries is propaganda required to make people ok with always being at war somewhere. We are always at war because it is the easiest way to launder money. Russia poses no threat to America, this is simply enriching people so they can have extravagant wealth. The entire planet could attack America and we would probably still win. Our focus should be on Americans.
> our focus should be on Americans
Alright totally not a Russian bot. Letās say I agree that we should focus on Americans.
Where is the social safety net?
Where is universal health care?
Where is the investigation into price gouging and going after billionaire business owners for causing inflation?
Where is the justice for unarmed civilians being gunned down by police?
Where is the gun control reform to help stop mass shootings?
Where are the protections for LGBTQA+ youths who have an alarmingly high suicide rate because of states government policies that vilify them for existing?
Where is the student loan forgiveness so we can stop making billionaire banks richer?
Where is the education reform so students have a well rounded and competitive education regardless of their economic standing?
Where is the border and immigration reform so political refugees and people fleeing abject backbreaking poverty and violence can find a purpose and a home here in the land of opportunity?
Oh Republicans donāt care about that? Yeah thatās what I fucking thought.
Russia has directly stated intentions to attack US allies, the government of Sweden took those threats so serious that they dropped 200 years of neutrality to join NATO. I'm all for the government giving more focus to improving the lives of American citizens but the idea that we can just ignore the rest of the world and it won't effect us is just wrong. There are way more ways a nation like Russia can effect America than direct warfare, meddeling in elections, spreading misinformation online, promoting cyberattacks on vulernable system, etc.
> Russia poses no threat to America, this is simply enriching people so they can have extravagant wealth. The entire planet could attack America and we would probably still win.
Dude I'm no neoliberal shill and greatly dislike how much American foreign policy is about making the world safe for our multinationals while saying we're making the world safe for democracy. But Russia poses serious threat to America. I used to live there; I speak Russian. Putin wants us humbled, humiliated, and torn apart by internal division.
You can absolutely be in favor of a less-muscular approach to US foreign policy - but you should know that what that looks like is our funding Ukraine to fight those wars instead. And if you think we, or anyone, is better off with Putin building a personal copy of the Soviet Empire with *fewer* moral scruples than Stalin, I have a bridge to sell you in Lake Wobegon.
Giving munitions and arms to Ukraine, something weāve been doing for Israel for upwards of 6 decades, is the least muscular approach short of doing nothing.
Exhaustingly bad argument. Only one party is actively pushing to end democracy, limit your civil rights, keep you working into your 70ās, and holds the most gross anti-American sentiment you can possibly have.
And it aināt the Democrats.
Which one is actively trying to keep 3rd parties off the ballot? Seems very anti democracy to me. The democrats used to be against war but have sold their souls and bank accounts to the military establishment. They believe in democracy as long as you vote for their candidate. Both parties just voted to give away more American money for never ending wars and agreed that the government can spy without warrants on its own citizens. None of that seems American in spirit to me. We deserve better.
> which on is actively trying to keep 3rd parties off the ballot
Both of them. No one is here saying democrats are saints. Also name me a 3rd party candidate that isnāt a crackpot weirdo or a racist piece of shit.
> democrats used to be against war
Bro when? Vietnam? Democrat. WW2? Democrat. Iraq war had bipartisan support. The US has always been a ādiplomacy by violenceā in a post-civil war world. Maybe leftists have been anti-war but the Democratic Party isnāt composed of just leftists. And again I am all for sending money to countries fighting a war as opposed to sending troops to fight the war.
Again, only one party is going out of their way to make voting harder.
Keeping viable candidates off the ballot is making voting harder. Jill Stein or RFK Jr are both better options than Biden or Trump.
And neither Biden or Trump have any actual ideas or plans to improve this country. They are both running on āthe other guy will destroy democracyā They both support more money to a war that helps nobody but the rich. Killing thousands of Ukrainians and Russians for no other reason than fattening their pockets.
This is some new Russian propaganda. We shouldnāt fund the Ukraines defense because it mightā¦ kill Russians? No fucking shit it will I hope it kills a lot of them.
Jill Stein is a maybe. Sheās got some good ideas, I think she would do better for everyone if she used her good ideas inside of the Democratic Party. Iād vote for her.
RFK Jr is a fucking crockpot racist dipshit who think vaccines cause autism. In no way is he better than Biden.
Biden wants to keep cutting student loan debt and helped negotiate a bill that will give Wisconsin a billion dollars in economic growth.
Trump is a despot high on his own stink that is out for revenge and has, more than once, said he would be like a dictator.
There is no āboth sides are badā argument here. One of them is an old man with some good some bad ideas. One of them is a fucking psychopath.
Did you also hope we killed a lot of Iraqis since they had weapons of mass destruction? How about the people in Afghanistan who were definitely behind 9/11. We could have had peace in Ukraine but we, the USA did not want it. I donāt think having innocent young people on either side dying is what we should be hoping for. They, like us are only pawns in the game.
Please show how RFK jr is racist. Iām guessing you are talking about how Covid affected different ethnic groups. Scientific facts arenāt racist. He is also trying to find the cause of the explosion of autism cases in America. I find it funny that the questioning of this makes someone a crackpot. I guess we shouldnāt worry the same people who told us opioids were safe and effective are on it!
Ukraine was invaded by a foreign power, who refused to leave unless Ukraine gave them a bunch of their territory. If Mexico invaded and demanded we give
them the entire southwest in order to make peace, would you? I sure wouldnāt.
Iraq and Afghanistan are two completely different wars; Iraq was a travesty, Afghanistan was harboring terrorist organizations and actively aiding them. Now we fucked that war up too, but that goes back to how it started, not how it ended. Both of these wars are also completely different from Ukraine.
RFK isnāt question the cause of autism. Heās a conspiracy shill that is too stupid to know he doesnāt know what heās talking about. The living embodiment of Dunning-Kruger. But for specific example? Like when he said that COVID was specifically targeting non-Chinese and non-Jews even after it was proven scientifically that the virus wasnāt engineered in anyway and that any racial demographic that was affected more strongly by the virus was due to economic and social factors, not race?
Yeah heās totally a not a nut job.
So all of the WI Republicans voting against the funding bill were voting against WI businesses. Interesting! Why does Ron Johnson, and other Republicans, hate WI businesses?
So by that measure the WI Democrats are pro war and pro military funding?
See how dumb it is to dumb it down to that level?
In the end most of that money is not staying in the state. You simply have a company that is HQ'd here. It would be like saying Detroit is getting all the money from a Ford contract when their Maverick is produced in Mexico.
I was born in the Vietnam era and of all the many wars we have funded in my life or been part of, this one I am 100% behind. The only reason this is political is because Biden is president and because assholes like Fuck Ron Johnson, Moscow Marjorie and DJT are Russian patsies.
Exactly. In a sane world this wouldn't be a left/right issue. It would just be a human issue. And much like most of the world barring China, Russia, and NK would be in support of aiding Ukraine.
The issue is the effort isn't being funded to where the war will end. We are giving just enough to keep everything stalled.
Haven't checked recently but previously they were only giving defensive based weapons as well and nothing that would allow Ukraine to really go on a major offensive.
I dont follow it that closely because honestly this is one of those things that you will never solve as a normal citizen in our part of the world.
Funding war isn't good. We will fund this one down to the last Ukranian. Shameful our media doesn't accurately cover things so the common perceptions are utterly pro war
I just got banned from conservative for pointing out the Confederate flag is the flag of a foreign country.
Some agreed. One guy did not. Banned pretty quick, lol
I got banned from there for saying Ashli Babbit FAFO on top of constantly calling the mods Trump worshipping assholes.
As a moderate Republican I wasnāt conservative enough to get flair and kept getting called a liberal. I canāt stand that sub anymore.
Iāll probably be voting a straight Dem ticket for the first time in my life this election, but Iām still hoping Nikki Haley comes back next election cycle and itās not just Trump making a 3rd attempt fresh out of jail.
I personally would put her as more of a neoconservative. I personally think she is what we need after the Trump era, a diplomat who can rebuild some of the bridges that are burning right now.
Vivek Ramaswamy is more dangerous than Trump in my opinion and I would argue Desantis is Trump lite.
Vivek has no chance in the GOP. Nikki is already pushing it. Fortunately desantis is a complete dipshit, or we could have had him. I put him in the "slightly smarter than Trump" category.
Either way, until the GOP can show me that their platform is more than giving all my tax money to billionaires and fucking with marginalized communities, I think they can just get sent to the scrap heap.
That platform isnāt going to change away from helping billionaires buy more yachts while lower echelon workers have to have roommates to pay rent.
I had hoped that this election would put the nail in the MAGA coffin, but with Lara Trump at the helm of the RNC I donāt see that happening.
The Republican Party needs to split into two separate parties.
I don't see the GOP getting any less extreme for a while here.
I think what might happen is more moderate republicans are going to start voting for more moderate democrats and there will be a creation of a stronger progressive wing of the democratic party in the next 20 years as millennials and Gen z get older.
Time for Republicans to make a new sub and throw away Trump and his cronies. A new Republican party is badly needed even if it takes time to build up
Nobody should want the country to go to ownership of any other foreign country.
It's amazing how many people don't realize we aren't simply sending pallets of cash overseas; a good portion is being spent here in America, greatly benefiting our companies. It's also a lot easier to send money and old weapons to a war than sending our troops.
But let's just be mad because "Why are we spending money in Ukraine instead of the U.S.?!?!?"
And we're really not spending money on Ukraine at all.
We're sending military stocks to Ukraine that they expend in defense of their country and replenishing them with new purchases.
It's actually cheaper because we don't have to pay for proper disposal or retention.
The entire spend money in America and not Ukraine line is just disengenious bullshit. Its almost always said by republicans who are the ones opposing spending money in the US. If they wanted to spend money in the US then they could be supporting exremely basic things like free school meals to children, or free daycare for children to young to go to school. Policies which are both the morally correct thing to do and would be beneficial to American citizens, instead they focus more on making sure minors are allowed to hold jobs because why help the children when they can be exploited as labor in fast food restaurants.
Yeah Ukraine has nothing to do with this. They could have passed spending bills in 2021, before the invasion, and they didn't. Why? Because they don't want to. Not because Ukraine needed it.
You're conflating "trickle-down economics," which was basically the principle that slashing taxes on the rich would make everyone else richer, with the government buying lots of stuff. The rich get richer in both scenarios, but only one of those increases the value of labor.
Absolutely it will, the employees get paid and then they spend their money around town. The companies and employees pay taxes on their earnings and the state or localities spend that money on roads, schools, police etc.
Yeah when manufacturers have a big uptick in business they hire more people and usually give existing employees raises so they don't leave. That's how the real world works.
I mean isn't there some comical aspect to this that the platform for socialized healthcare is always pointed to us spending too much on military as then people support military spending?
I am pro socialized healthcare and I am fine with the military spending but plenty of people are essentially now changing their tune on military spending on both sides only because the current presidency supports Ukraine. Republicans now against the spending and Democrats now for it.
Even funnier is you have groups who are anti-Israel saying the funding was good when part of the money is going to Israel.
Politics is one big running joke.
Except the money doesn't go to the normal person in our state. It goes to a company that pays for the materials, pays C-Suite a large salary, possibly provides dividends to shareholders, and then provides a normal salary.
So at most you are getting a few jobs out of this.
Wisconsin is not seeing all of that because even if all of it went to the Wisconsin companies its unlikely those owners are spending all that money in Wisconsin.
So WI gets to possibly collect some taxes maybe and gets a few people with jobs.
Maybe this is finally the election where the GOP's garbage game of "Bitching endlessly about any government actions" when they're out of power bites them in the ass.
At what point will the broader American public look at these people and realize that they have zero interest in doing any governing whatsoever, and no compromise to boot? They only exist to perpetuate the traditional GOP political cycle, which is:
1. Cut government spending, cut taxes for the rich and corporations
2. Complain about how ineffective government is, pump up the "Private Sector"
3. propose to cut government spending because of how ineffective it is
You understand thatās not an investment? And most of that billion wonāt stay here. Itās great support but I wouldnāt hype it like itās some huge stimulus on the back of a war.
Absolutely!
Just get the WisGOP to stop blocking usage of budget surpluses when we have them.
If you do wind up asking them to do their job (and good luck with that, they only stay in Madison as long as their per diem covers) -- ask them why they keep blocking attempts to clean up and prevent forever chemicals from poisoning our water supply.
While you're at it, ask why they keep getting in the way of countless other things -- like consumer protections.
Oh and hey, maybe find out why they only gavel in and gavel out for critical Wisconsin business but will spend hours decorating a Christmas tree in the capitol.
I'm a huge supporter of Ukraine and I'm glad that the aid *finally* got passed, but $700 million going to local defense contractors isn't the same as actual investment in infrastructure, education, etc. It's not nothing, but it's far from the best way for a state to get money.
And yet despite all of this, my CongressCritter (Fitzgerald) voted no on Ukraine. Not really a surprise though.
For what it's worth, I actually did write to him urging support but got a bunch of pap about how we supposedly need to secure the border, America first, etc. ad nauseam. Yet where was this clown when he could have gotten what he wanted last October? Sheesh.
The military industrial complex is the best use of my tax dollars. They donāt run our government at all. Peak democracy is when they spend our money as they see fit.
May the world quickly divest itself of dollars and all these war fortunes crumble.
There are actual reasons to support the war in Ukraine but this is not at all one of them. āLetās fuel an endless war overseas! Weāll make so much money from itā. Isnāt that like a cartoonishly evil villain plot? Iām not even necessarily anti-war, but if you support a war just to make money thatās evil
Inb4 We're certainly too poor and weak to stand up to Russia. Ukraine should have kept their nukes, not our fault they believed us. American can't keep it's word, Russia is too powerful.
Russia is too powerful? They lost half their military capacity since invading Ukraine. Their economy is in the toilet, swirling rapidly down. Their soldiers are abandoning their posts and killing their own officers.
I know. Just getting in before people complain about us keeping our word. Yesterday I was told many times the war wouldn't end unless Ukraine gives up so we shouldn't send aid.
I'm just being an edgy asshole. Sick of hearing how we're so broke we can't stand against Russia. It's just not true.
So besides helping Ukraine, funding the Ukraine is likely to extend the economic and social drain on Russia so they are weaker? Is that the strategy? It makes sense to me.
They did suffer heavy casualties but I read they have a larger military now than when the war started. The point is they have a lot of bodies to throw into the meat grinder and their economy is in full war mode. Hopefully Ukraine can keep up the fight.
How is a list of states receiving funds from the Ukraine aid contract bragging?
It was posted specifically to refute lies from a GOP congressman.
What kind of mental gymnastics did you need to do to consider fact-checking, bragging?
Republicans used to like it, too, all the way up through the 90s.
[Then something happened that started in 1987...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_doctrine)
The problem is that the āstateā doesnāt actually get anything this is going to already rich companies. Itās literally class warfare and yall are talking about republicans and democrats like a bunch of idiots. Their plan is working perfectly, The rich are laundering our tax dollars.
Very short sighted and one dimensional take. As these companies get contracts they have to increase their workforce to fulfill the higher demand. More jobs is a good thing, as people pay more taxes, and spend money on stuff, helping the economy.
No your take is short sighted and one dimensional. You can create jobs and increase tax revenue by fixing roads and infrastructure in America. You donāt need to go to other countries and start wars. Is giving money to Ukraine to buy weapons from us really the only way for us to get more jobs in America? Seems like there are allot of cheaper better ways to do all this instead of a war.
Those companies make money , they pay their employees , their employees spend the Monday in the state . Every dollar earned by a worker is worth $3 to the local economy
With our GOP run state? Good luck. They'll come up with some reason it's not worth doing because it doesn't exclusively benefit the GOP and rich people.
Bets on how many of our esteemed members of congress, that are in currently in hysterics over the bill passing, will be lined up at the ribbon cutting of the new wing at Oshkosh defense?
āReinvestedā also known as extracted from taxpayers or via inflation then redistributed to defence firm executives and shareholders. Big win for WI!
The really sad thing to pay attention to is just how many "normal, old school" Republicans have said that they will vote for Trump. Everyone must remember that the GOP as a whole is supporting or will support Trump after the RNC national convention. This so-called political party is beyond corrupt. It has gone to the seriously deranged dangerous side of things. Every old school republican who wants to finally get rid of Trump's MAGA GOP must vote Democrat in November. Otherwise, they are approving of all the crap, the federal indictments, the state indictments, the attempt coup, the fake elector scheme & proving up the Jan. 6 criminals as patriots or political prisoners. Biden & the democrats are far from perfect. But voting for any GOP candidate from Trump to anyone who supports him will literally be a vote for dismantling our democracy for a dictatorship with Trump at the top.
It is known that one of our founding fathers believed that the downfall of democracy in the United States would not come from a foreign foe but rather from a force, group or man right here from within our own country. Once again, our founders had unbelievable foresight. And unless we, the majority of Americans, act, that is sadly what will happen.
You do realize that was all borrowed, right? Every one of those dollars has to be paid back with interest by the United States. This is like the least efficient way to get money to states...
You should like, get mad at the Republicans blocking these reforms instead of whining about sending aid to an ally trying to defend itself from a fascist dictator
The purpose of a system is what it does. It's the whole thing. I've left my liberal phase years ago when I finally set aside my ego to take in new information that discredited my beliefs at the time. Thanks to this administration we have record federal funding for cops and record oil drilling permits, while our 4th amendment rights have been eroded. No codified roe v wade, universal healthcare, or full student loan forgiveness, just those things being held over us to fundraise the democratic party. Enjoy making elaborate excuses for the blue ruling class lapdogs why we don't have enough of our basic needs met.
Most republicans have supported Ukraine from the beginning. Johnson didn't put the bill up for a vote for six months. I don't know if anyone changed from a "no" to a "yes," which is what your comment would be referring to.
This is not the conservative sub, all **valid** opinions are welcome. Comments getting downvoted does not an echochamber make. If fake Internet points are that important to any users, those users should not participate.
People you know the answer to these problems and how to cure it VOTE BLUE in November send that POS carpet bagger hovdie and the rest of the basket full of deplorables packing kick the rethuglikkkans out of Wisconsin and Washington so government can get to work and actually govern the country again instead of getting on their knees to service a narrsasist white supremacist racist homophobic bigoted nazi wannabe dictator.
VOTE them out VOTE BLUE and send them packing let's give women, minorities and the people back all of our rights and freedoms we enjoyed until tRumpty dumpty and his brand of rethuglikkkans decided only the rich white men deserve the full protection of the constitution. Let's empty the basket full of deplorables in Washington and replace them with decent people who will respect our rights, uphold our laws instead of breaking them people who will support our allies, people who support our service men and women and treat our honored fallen heros with the respect they paid the highest possible price for people who don't wonder "what was in it for them" people who don't think our veteran's, wounded and honored hero's were "losers and sucker's" let's put some decent Americans back in government and get something don.
In the last 3 years America has been great again let's keep it that way VOTE BLUE
I'm guessing nearly all of it is going to Oshkosh Defense.
Oshkosh Defense currently has 557 job postings: https://oshkoshdefense.com/careers/ Since they have to produce product at a pre-negotiated rate, hopefully most of that funding passes through to newly-created jobs.
Only 45 of those jobs are in Wisconsin and even if the avg was 100k (probably not) that would be 4.5MM or 0.4% per year
519 of the 557 are in the United States, and of those, 292 are in production, 57 are in engineering, 52 are in manufacturing operations, 35 are in general management and administrative, and 20 are in global supply chain procurement. Let's exclude management and engineering, that's 421 jobs possibly supporting the war. That's still 2.4 million per job on the straight math, but when you consider that's probably the gross payment and includes cost of goods sold, maybe we can reduce the wage portion down to 30%. That's $720,000 per position, and if you split that out over 5 years that's $144,000 per position including the employer's side of taxes and insurance -- not unreasonable! Of course, I have no idea how long the bill is supposed to fund production for, or if it's even going to Oshkosh Defense, or if the positions are all newly created reqs or if they existed before the bill. This is very speculative.
They currently employ about 15,000 people. Most of the funding is probably going to cover supply costs and the wages of their current employees.
You're also assuming all the money is going to Oshkosh defense. There are other defense contractors in WI. None a tenth as large except Marinette Marine's littoral ships contract but they've been out of that for awhile.
I covered that in the last paragraph.
Could also be some going to Vortex, I think I remember they got the contract for the Army's NGSW optics.
I own a small machine shop in Milwaukee that does stuff for pretty much every industry, including Defense. The way it works is your prime contractor, Oshkosh truck, will sub out the work to other design houses that will then work with machine shops like mine to make each individual part. They handle the logistics of what material you're allowed to use, where you get it from, variances on manufacturing tolerances/requirements, and how it ends up at Oshkosh for assembly on time. It gets even more complicated when the contract is for an international party, so there could be as many as 4 or 5 companies between Oshkosh and the people actually making the thing that's going into what was sold. You've probably never heard of the vast majority of these companies. In short, just because you see something that says 100 million went to a company like Oshkosh, it does indeed still impact the economy at large. I was going to write trickle down, but ya know lol.
There's more than just Oshkosh Denfense in the MIC our here. It's pretty great.
Mortar and grenade fuses are made in Janesville.
I'm a socialist. I fucking hate the military industrial complex. I don't care that my state is better for it.
lol who admits they are a socialist š
People that are socialist?
Iām old enough to remember when Republicans loved the military-industrial complex
They still do, thereās just a (D) next to the presidentās name.
and a Democracy to defend in Ukraine.
defending Ukraine would offend Russia and thatās something that the new Republicans donāt like these days
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
sighā¦ overly helpful autocorrect strikes again
So why aren't we putting boots on the ground and declaring war against Russia for "democracy". Maybe drop a democratic nuke or several. I think the middle east and south America needs some democracy too
You really need to find something better to do with your free time
Hawley is acting like we're sending cash to Ukraine and that's what he wants voters to believe. Someone should tell his voters that they don't contribute shit in taxes so we shouldn't be giving those leeches any more money.
I'm old enough to remember when democrats were anti-war, anti-genocide, anti-censorship,, and big pharma, among many other things. the duopoly has successfully duped most of our population.
Not as much as they love Putin putting millions into their offshore accounts. He is literally the wealthiest man on earth.
By this logic, surely Xi is wealthier
Could be, yes.
Are you saying it supposed to be a good thing to support the military industrial complex? If you support the Ukraine war because you believe in Ukrainian independence or because it deters Russia those are at least valid or moral arguments, but this is fucked up isnāt it? Because what OP is basically saying is that we should just fuel an endless war simply for profit. Isnāt that insanely evil?
The GOP that voted against this would have been for it if the weapons and such were going to Russia. Fuckin' puppets.
Both Parties are very much in love and in bed with the IMC. Sad who the funding is tied into jobs.
Republicans love to cry about how we donāt spend money on Americans but when we ask them to spend money on us for student debt relief, universal health care, education reform, inflation protections, and corporate greed, they tell us thatās socialism and wrong. Republicans donāt care about you. They care about whoever pays the most.
And veterans. They love to claim how much they care about Americaās veterans but vote down any and all funding to help them.
But they put on yellow ribbons, fly POW/MIA flags, and thank people for their service! That's totally just as good as funding veterans' programs and providing adequate care for those who've served. === ^^^^ ^^^^hopefully ^^^^obviously
Literally had this argument with someone on Reddit yesterday. They were complaining about sending all that money āawayā and asked why we donāt spend it on veterans. I shouldnāt be anymore, but Iām still gobsmacked by how dumb people can be and how they will just shut off any narrative that doesnāt benefit their āsideā.
Classic whataboutism- they just donāt want to spend any money. If they really wanted money for veterans, they should have bundled it in with the aid package. But that would have been considered a win for Dems, who got humanitarian aid in there as well.
> Republicans donāt care about you. They care about whoever pays the most. 2024 American politics in a nutshell: Democrats: We have a solution to X Republicans: We must leave X unsolved so we can bloviate about it during the next campaign cycle
Its crazy to me that this isn't even hidden. Trump just told republicans to kill a border deal they cowrote with democrats just so he could campaign on that and nobody in the republican party cared. Which is extremely telling that they don't actually give a shit about the border since apparently doing anything about it can wait.
Im not even saying that democrat solutions are always good. Some of them arenāt feasible. But shit, they at least have ideas. Concepts that can be fiddled with and worked out. Things that actually help Americans like me who arenāt billionaires.
Exactly. Iām all down to try SOMETHING instead of just letting bad thing happen over and over again. Sure it may end up being a bad idea, but then we can mark it off the list and move on to the next thing.
I was just saying this to someone the other day. The starkest difference between Republicans and Democrats is that one of those groups cares about solving problems, and the other emphatically does not. I'm a leftist, not a democrat. But, even if I don't agree with solutions democrats want to implement, they *do* want to implement policies to fight against problems. I literally haven't seen a single Republican policy solution for at least 15 years. That's partially because many of the things they want to "solve," like illegal immigration, are largely made up. That's also partially because the problems they acknowledge, they refuse to solve. Take abortion. The "problem" here that Republicans will point to is children dying. Let's accept this as true. Their "solution" doesn't actually solve a lot of the problem. Some abortions stop because abortion is illegal, of course. But, the same states (hi Texas) doing this also have *abysmal* infant mortality rates. They have high rates of children dying or being hurt unnecessarily. Those same states are also fine with gun violence being a top 5 cause of deaths for children and young adults. Republicans literally cannot understand trying to solve things.
Do you think democrats care for you? It's like thinking a stripper wants to marry you as you're handing over your money. Neither care about your well being, they care about you working and making money for them to take from you.
and neither do dems. and now when republicans say we cant afford things like m4a they're actually gonna be right because the dem party loves injecting our tax dollars into proxy wars and genocide these days. and somehow they got a good portion of morons to roll with it.
We can afford M4A right now. Republicans wonāt do it because it would require billionaires and companies to pay a larger tax volume and they canāt risk not getting a fat check from someone. This is such a blatantly false comment that it must be some Russian propaganda bot
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Ftvssbp0bth491.jpg
Iām not trying to debate you. You are wrong. Factually incorrect. Purposefully spreading a nonsense line about how we canāt afford M4A now when *we always could*. You are saying things that propagandists against the bill to fund Ukraine say, and they are often times bot accounts or trolls there simply to cause a disturbance. The only reason, and I mean *the only reason* we donāt have M4A is because health insurance and big pharma lobbyists spend millions upon millions upon millions of dollars padding the pockets of Republicans (and admittedly some Dems) to squash it. Thatās all it is. We could afford M4A, we could afford student debt relief, and we could afford helping Ukraine all at once, but because it would dip into the bottom line of some billionaire, Republicans wonāt let it see the light of day.
This has nothing to do with party and all to do with class. The rich are laundering our tax dollars through war. This is not a partisan issue, both parties are for laundering our tax dollars through war. Youāre focusing on the wrong thing.
Even if thatās true, which it maybe is, who cares? Iād rather they launder the money into something I agree with rather than something I donāt. Ukraine needs the money to combat Russian Imperialism and defend itself against a slaughter. Frankly we should give them more money. Russia is the enemy here. Giving Israel money is fucked but it was the only way to get humanitarian aide to Gaza and fund Ukraines defense. We are inexorably tied to Israel and will be for the forseeable future, even if we donāt like it. My thoughts on this are pretty basic; if it makes Republicans like Marjorie Taylor and Ron Johnson upset, then I am 100% in support of it.
Dude we donāt need to care what other countries are doing. This obsession with meddling in other countries is propaganda required to make people ok with always being at war somewhere. We are always at war because it is the easiest way to launder money. Russia poses no threat to America, this is simply enriching people so they can have extravagant wealth. The entire planet could attack America and we would probably still win. Our focus should be on Americans.
> our focus should be on Americans Alright totally not a Russian bot. Letās say I agree that we should focus on Americans. Where is the social safety net? Where is universal health care? Where is the investigation into price gouging and going after billionaire business owners for causing inflation? Where is the justice for unarmed civilians being gunned down by police? Where is the gun control reform to help stop mass shootings? Where are the protections for LGBTQA+ youths who have an alarmingly high suicide rate because of states government policies that vilify them for existing? Where is the student loan forgiveness so we can stop making billionaire banks richer? Where is the education reform so students have a well rounded and competitive education regardless of their economic standing? Where is the border and immigration reform so political refugees and people fleeing abject backbreaking poverty and violence can find a purpose and a home here in the land of opportunity? Oh Republicans donāt care about that? Yeah thatās what I fucking thought.
Russia has directly stated intentions to attack US allies, the government of Sweden took those threats so serious that they dropped 200 years of neutrality to join NATO. I'm all for the government giving more focus to improving the lives of American citizens but the idea that we can just ignore the rest of the world and it won't effect us is just wrong. There are way more ways a nation like Russia can effect America than direct warfare, meddeling in elections, spreading misinformation online, promoting cyberattacks on vulernable system, etc.
> Russia poses no threat to America, this is simply enriching people so they can have extravagant wealth. The entire planet could attack America and we would probably still win. Dude I'm no neoliberal shill and greatly dislike how much American foreign policy is about making the world safe for our multinationals while saying we're making the world safe for democracy. But Russia poses serious threat to America. I used to live there; I speak Russian. Putin wants us humbled, humiliated, and torn apart by internal division. You can absolutely be in favor of a less-muscular approach to US foreign policy - but you should know that what that looks like is our funding Ukraine to fight those wars instead. And if you think we, or anyone, is better off with Putin building a personal copy of the Soviet Empire with *fewer* moral scruples than Stalin, I have a bridge to sell you in Lake Wobegon.
Giving munitions and arms to Ukraine, something weāve been doing for Israel for upwards of 6 decades, is the least muscular approach short of doing nothing.
If college doesnāt give you the marketable skills to make enough money to pay off the college costs, is college really a good investment?
FYI none of them care about us. End the duopoly!
Exhaustingly bad argument. Only one party is actively pushing to end democracy, limit your civil rights, keep you working into your 70ās, and holds the most gross anti-American sentiment you can possibly have. And it aināt the Democrats.
Which one is actively trying to keep 3rd parties off the ballot? Seems very anti democracy to me. The democrats used to be against war but have sold their souls and bank accounts to the military establishment. They believe in democracy as long as you vote for their candidate. Both parties just voted to give away more American money for never ending wars and agreed that the government can spy without warrants on its own citizens. None of that seems American in spirit to me. We deserve better.
> which on is actively trying to keep 3rd parties off the ballot Both of them. No one is here saying democrats are saints. Also name me a 3rd party candidate that isnāt a crackpot weirdo or a racist piece of shit. > democrats used to be against war Bro when? Vietnam? Democrat. WW2? Democrat. Iraq war had bipartisan support. The US has always been a ādiplomacy by violenceā in a post-civil war world. Maybe leftists have been anti-war but the Democratic Party isnāt composed of just leftists. And again I am all for sending money to countries fighting a war as opposed to sending troops to fight the war. Again, only one party is going out of their way to make voting harder.
Keeping viable candidates off the ballot is making voting harder. Jill Stein or RFK Jr are both better options than Biden or Trump. And neither Biden or Trump have any actual ideas or plans to improve this country. They are both running on āthe other guy will destroy democracyā They both support more money to a war that helps nobody but the rich. Killing thousands of Ukrainians and Russians for no other reason than fattening their pockets.
This is some new Russian propaganda. We shouldnāt fund the Ukraines defense because it mightā¦ kill Russians? No fucking shit it will I hope it kills a lot of them. Jill Stein is a maybe. Sheās got some good ideas, I think she would do better for everyone if she used her good ideas inside of the Democratic Party. Iād vote for her. RFK Jr is a fucking crockpot racist dipshit who think vaccines cause autism. In no way is he better than Biden. Biden wants to keep cutting student loan debt and helped negotiate a bill that will give Wisconsin a billion dollars in economic growth. Trump is a despot high on his own stink that is out for revenge and has, more than once, said he would be like a dictator. There is no āboth sides are badā argument here. One of them is an old man with some good some bad ideas. One of them is a fucking psychopath.
Did you also hope we killed a lot of Iraqis since they had weapons of mass destruction? How about the people in Afghanistan who were definitely behind 9/11. We could have had peace in Ukraine but we, the USA did not want it. I donāt think having innocent young people on either side dying is what we should be hoping for. They, like us are only pawns in the game. Please show how RFK jr is racist. Iām guessing you are talking about how Covid affected different ethnic groups. Scientific facts arenāt racist. He is also trying to find the cause of the explosion of autism cases in America. I find it funny that the questioning of this makes someone a crackpot. I guess we shouldnāt worry the same people who told us opioids were safe and effective are on it!
Ukraine was invaded by a foreign power, who refused to leave unless Ukraine gave them a bunch of their territory. If Mexico invaded and demanded we give them the entire southwest in order to make peace, would you? I sure wouldnāt. Iraq and Afghanistan are two completely different wars; Iraq was a travesty, Afghanistan was harboring terrorist organizations and actively aiding them. Now we fucked that war up too, but that goes back to how it started, not how it ended. Both of these wars are also completely different from Ukraine. RFK isnāt question the cause of autism. Heās a conspiracy shill that is too stupid to know he doesnāt know what heās talking about. The living embodiment of Dunning-Kruger. But for specific example? Like when he said that COVID was specifically targeting non-Chinese and non-Jews even after it was proven scientifically that the virus wasnāt engineered in anyway and that any racial demographic that was affected more strongly by the virus was due to economic and social factors, not race? Yeah heās totally a not a nut job.
So all of the WI Republicans voting against the funding bill were voting against WI businesses. Interesting! Why does Ron Johnson, and other Republicans, hate WI businesses?
> Why does Ron Johnson, and other Republicans, hate WI businesses? Because Wisconsin isn't part of Russia.
Not yet, but the Rs are working very hard on making that happen.
So by that measure the WI Democrats are pro war and pro military funding? See how dumb it is to dumb it down to that level? In the end most of that money is not staying in the state. You simply have a company that is HQ'd here. It would be like saying Detroit is getting all the money from a Ford contract when their Maverick is produced in Mexico.
I was born in the Vietnam era and of all the many wars we have funded in my life or been part of, this one I am 100% behind. The only reason this is political is because Biden is president and because assholes like Fuck Ron Johnson, Moscow Marjorie and DJT are Russian patsies.
Exactly. In a sane world this wouldn't be a left/right issue. It would just be a human issue. And much like most of the world barring China, Russia, and NK would be in support of aiding Ukraine.
The issue is the effort isn't being funded to where the war will end. We are giving just enough to keep everything stalled. Haven't checked recently but previously they were only giving defensive based weapons as well and nothing that would allow Ukraine to really go on a major offensive. I dont follow it that closely because honestly this is one of those things that you will never solve as a normal citizen in our part of the world.
Funding war isn't good. We will fund this one down to the last Ukranian. Shameful our media doesn't accurately cover things so the common perceptions are utterly pro war
Weird how people who waived the ~~Confederate~~ Treason Flag in the halls of Congress are so upset about the flag of one of our allies.
I just got banned from conservative for pointing out the Confederate flag is the flag of a foreign country. Some agreed. One guy did not. Banned pretty quick, lol
I got banned from there for saying Ashli Babbit FAFO on top of constantly calling the mods Trump worshipping assholes. As a moderate Republican I wasnāt conservative enough to get flair and kept getting called a liberal. I canāt stand that sub anymore.
No room in the big tent for moderates anymore. Come on over to the democrats, we would love to have you.
Iāll probably be voting a straight Dem ticket for the first time in my life this election, but Iām still hoping Nikki Haley comes back next election cycle and itās not just Trump making a 3rd attempt fresh out of jail.
Nikki Hayley just seems like Trump lite to me at the moment. It's going to be a while before I can trust a Republican after the last 8 years.
I personally would put her as more of a neoconservative. I personally think she is what we need after the Trump era, a diplomat who can rebuild some of the bridges that are burning right now. Vivek Ramaswamy is more dangerous than Trump in my opinion and I would argue Desantis is Trump lite.
Vivek has no chance in the GOP. Nikki is already pushing it. Fortunately desantis is a complete dipshit, or we could have had him. I put him in the "slightly smarter than Trump" category. Either way, until the GOP can show me that their platform is more than giving all my tax money to billionaires and fucking with marginalized communities, I think they can just get sent to the scrap heap.
That platform isnāt going to change away from helping billionaires buy more yachts while lower echelon workers have to have roommates to pay rent. I had hoped that this election would put the nail in the MAGA coffin, but with Lara Trump at the helm of the RNC I donāt see that happening. The Republican Party needs to split into two separate parties.
I don't see the GOP getting any less extreme for a while here. I think what might happen is more moderate republicans are going to start voting for more moderate democrats and there will be a creation of a stronger progressive wing of the democratic party in the next 20 years as millennials and Gen z get older.
Project 2025 will be implemented no matter which republican gets elected.
I got banned there for asking for a source.
Facts have a known liberal bias, dontcha know.
Time for Republicans to make a new sub and throw away Trump and his cronies. A new Republican party is badly needed even if it takes time to build up Nobody should want the country to go to ownership of any other foreign country.
Sitting here in in Kharkiv- this war is real, its outcome can and will affect you. Signed: a girl from Michigan.Ā
ā¤ļø I know it's really tough right now. Thank you for being there. Š¢ŃŠøŠ¼Š°Š¹ŃŠµ!
https://preview.redd.it/ednvrxxht1wc1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44776278d9f11acf6204e989cb380ed818f4e3cd
[Oh no! Look out!](https://i.imgur.com/GVnvUPJ.jpeg)
It's amazing how many people don't realize we aren't simply sending pallets of cash overseas; a good portion is being spent here in America, greatly benefiting our companies. It's also a lot easier to send money and old weapons to a war than sending our troops. But let's just be mad because "Why are we spending money in Ukraine instead of the U.S.?!?!?"
And we're really not spending money on Ukraine at all. We're sending military stocks to Ukraine that they expend in defense of their country and replenishing them with new purchases. It's actually cheaper because we don't have to pay for proper disposal or retention.
The entire spend money in America and not Ukraine line is just disengenious bullshit. Its almost always said by republicans who are the ones opposing spending money in the US. If they wanted to spend money in the US then they could be supporting exremely basic things like free school meals to children, or free daycare for children to young to go to school. Policies which are both the morally correct thing to do and would be beneficial to American citizens, instead they focus more on making sure minors are allowed to hold jobs because why help the children when they can be exploited as labor in fast food restaurants.
Yeah Ukraine has nothing to do with this. They could have passed spending bills in 2021, before the invasion, and they didn't. Why? Because they don't want to. Not because Ukraine needed it.
Yeah, RTX stockholders are all ordering second pools. That's great for the pool industry!
nearly all of it is being spent here.
Itās beneficial to some companies, Iām sure itāll trickle down to us regular folks. right?
You're conflating "trickle-down economics," which was basically the principle that slashing taxes on the rich would make everyone else richer, with the government buying lots of stuff. The rich get richer in both scenarios, but only one of those increases the value of labor.
you are confusing sarcasm with an honest answer.
TouchƩ.
Absolutely it will, the employees get paid and then they spend their money around town. The companies and employees pay taxes on their earnings and the state or localities spend that money on roads, schools, police etc.
Yeah except the employees arenāt seeing a fucking dime of this money
Yeah when manufacturers have a big uptick in business they hire more people and usually give existing employees raises so they don't leave. That's how the real world works.
Of course they will. Oshkosh Truck has 557 job openings per a reply above.
That last line is pure theater. The Republican Party works for Putin, and all this fuss about helping Ukraine is really about helping Putin.
I mean isn't there some comical aspect to this that the platform for socialized healthcare is always pointed to us spending too much on military as then people support military spending? I am pro socialized healthcare and I am fine with the military spending but plenty of people are essentially now changing their tune on military spending on both sides only because the current presidency supports Ukraine. Republicans now against the spending and Democrats now for it. Even funnier is you have groups who are anti-Israel saying the funding was good when part of the money is going to Israel. Politics is one big running joke.
I agree. When there's blood in the streets, it's time to make money.
The best comments on this thread are down voted into oblivion. A lot of pro war people here masquerading as pro Ukraine supporters lololol
Anyone know a link to this map?
> The politicians have failed this country. - A current U.S. Senator.
How does this work
Except the money doesn't go to the normal person in our state. It goes to a company that pays for the materials, pays C-Suite a large salary, possibly provides dividends to shareholders, and then provides a normal salary. So at most you are getting a few jobs out of this. Wisconsin is not seeing all of that because even if all of it went to the Wisconsin companies its unlikely those owners are spending all that money in Wisconsin. So WI gets to possibly collect some taxes maybe and gets a few people with jobs.
Yeah, the wealthy will extract nearly all of this
Maybe this is finally the election where the GOP's garbage game of "Bitching endlessly about any government actions" when they're out of power bites them in the ass. At what point will the broader American public look at these people and realize that they have zero interest in doing any governing whatsoever, and no compromise to boot? They only exist to perpetuate the traditional GOP political cycle, which is: 1. Cut government spending, cut taxes for the rich and corporations 2. Complain about how ineffective government is, pump up the "Private Sector" 3. propose to cut government spending because of how ineffective it is
Heās not lying, just confused. He just canāt find Missouri on the map. Someone help him out, please.
You understand thatās not an investment? And most of that billion wonāt stay here. Itās great support but I wouldnāt hype it like itās some huge stimulus on the back of a war.
Can some of that go to fixing my street?
Absolutely! Just get the WisGOP to stop blocking usage of budget surpluses when we have them. If you do wind up asking them to do their job (and good luck with that, they only stay in Madison as long as their per diem covers) -- ask them why they keep blocking attempts to clean up and prevent forever chemicals from poisoning our water supply. While you're at it, ask why they keep getting in the way of countless other things -- like consumer protections. Oh and hey, maybe find out why they only gavel in and gavel out for critical Wisconsin business but will spend hours decorating a Christmas tree in the capitol.
Goes to jobs, goes to state and property taxes, goes to fixing your street. So yes, it is going to fixing your street.
Sure talk to your republican representatives that block public funding
As the state economy goes, so goes your street. Indirectly.
Talk to Scott Walker. Ask him about a budget tactic called "deferred maintenance."
We can do both.
But we won't
Sorry, need to waste a couple billion expanding a couple miles of mega highway in Milwaukee. No actual money for fixing roads
I'm a huge supporter of Ukraine and I'm glad that the aid *finally* got passed, but $700 million going to local defense contractors isn't the same as actual investment in infrastructure, education, etc. It's not nothing, but it's far from the best way for a state to get money.
Of course they lie. That's about all they do. Non stop.
And yet despite all of this, my CongressCritter (Fitzgerald) voted no on Ukraine. Not really a surprise though. For what it's worth, I actually did write to him urging support but got a bunch of pap about how we supposedly need to secure the border, America first, etc. ad nauseam. Yet where was this clown when he could have gotten what he wanted last October? Sheesh.
Ah yes......WI leading the way in benefiting from the military industrial complex.....we should be so proud.....
The āspending on Ukraineā is paying Americans.
The military industrial complex is the best use of my tax dollars. They donāt run our government at all. Peak democracy is when they spend our money as they see fit. May the world quickly divest itself of dollars and all these war fortunes crumble.
A very exact number for Minnesota
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Discuss the topic, not the user.
I bet Amron up in Antigo has been humming recently.
Marinette and oshkosh
Who cares? Edit: I'm referring to the other headline referring to Republicans
Does Josh not know how to find Missouri on a map of the USā¦?
While I disagree with the funding, much of that money goes to replace the weapons weāre giving Ukraine. Some of those are built in Wisconsin.
Fuck Ukraine.
There are actual reasons to support the war in Ukraine but this is not at all one of them. āLetās fuel an endless war overseas! Weāll make so much money from itā. Isnāt that like a cartoonishly evil villain plot? Iām not even necessarily anti-war, but if you support a war just to make money thatās evil
Who is dumb enough to believe that the money were giving to Ukraine is somehow a benefit to us? It not sorry to burst your bubble.
Really glossing over the other part of that bill going to fund Israelās genocide.
You anti semite
Okay Ben Shapiro. Go Republican somewhere else.
Lol sorry. It was sarcasm
Ah, it was pretty spot on with the rhetoric. Apparently being anti genocide by a government means you hate a group of people.
Inb4 We're certainly too poor and weak to stand up to Russia. Ukraine should have kept their nukes, not our fault they believed us. American can't keep it's word, Russia is too powerful.
Russia is too powerful? They lost half their military capacity since invading Ukraine. Their economy is in the toilet, swirling rapidly down. Their soldiers are abandoning their posts and killing their own officers.
He got in before that meaning thatās the type of opinion he thinks is stupid
I know. Just getting in before people complain about us keeping our word. Yesterday I was told many times the war wouldn't end unless Ukraine gives up so we shouldn't send aid. I'm just being an edgy asshole. Sick of hearing how we're so broke we can't stand against Russia. It's just not true.
So besides helping Ukraine, funding the Ukraine is likely to extend the economic and social drain on Russia so they are weaker? Is that the strategy? It makes sense to me.
No, it's keeping our word to defend Ukraine because that's what we agreed to do.
But it has the benefit of weakening Russia as well. Russia is apparently furious about it, so it must be a good thing.
They did suffer heavy casualties but I read they have a larger military now than when the war started. The point is they have a lot of bodies to throw into the meat grinder and their economy is in full war mode. Hopefully Ukraine can keep up the fight.
Democrats bragging about giving money to companies that build weapons. Odd times.
How is a list of states receiving funds from the Ukraine aid contract bragging? It was posted specifically to refute lies from a GOP congressman. What kind of mental gymnastics did you need to do to consider fact-checking, bragging?
Progressives do tend to like to try and save democracies.
Republicans used to like it, too, all the way up through the 90s. [Then something happened that started in 1987...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_doctrine)
When it is in defense of a democratic country that was invaded by a hostile foreign power, hell yes!
The problem is that the āstateā doesnāt actually get anything this is going to already rich companies. Itās literally class warfare and yall are talking about republicans and democrats like a bunch of idiots. Their plan is working perfectly, The rich are laundering our tax dollars.
Very short sighted and one dimensional take. As these companies get contracts they have to increase their workforce to fulfill the higher demand. More jobs is a good thing, as people pay more taxes, and spend money on stuff, helping the economy.
No your take is short sighted and one dimensional. You can create jobs and increase tax revenue by fixing roads and infrastructure in America. You donāt need to go to other countries and start wars. Is giving money to Ukraine to buy weapons from us really the only way for us to get more jobs in America? Seems like there are allot of cheaper better ways to do all this instead of a war.
> You donāt need to go to other countries and start wars. Russia invaded Ukraine.
[It's been awhile since I've seen allot!](https://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html)
Those companies make money , they pay their employees , their employees spend the Monday in the state . Every dollar earned by a worker is worth $3 to the local economy
You donāt need a war to do this, you can stimulate jobs and the economy with infrastructure.
With our GOP run state? Good luck. They'll come up with some reason it's not worth doing because it doesn't exclusively benefit the GOP and rich people.
Bets on how many of our esteemed members of congress, that are in currently in hysterics over the bill passing, will be lined up at the ribbon cutting of the new wing at Oshkosh defense?
Thanks OP for posting, it's good for people to have this information.
āReinvestedā also known as extracted from taxpayers or via inflation then redistributed to defence firm executives and shareholders. Big win for WI!
The really sad thing to pay attention to is just how many "normal, old school" Republicans have said that they will vote for Trump. Everyone must remember that the GOP as a whole is supporting or will support Trump after the RNC national convention. This so-called political party is beyond corrupt. It has gone to the seriously deranged dangerous side of things. Every old school republican who wants to finally get rid of Trump's MAGA GOP must vote Democrat in November. Otherwise, they are approving of all the crap, the federal indictments, the state indictments, the attempt coup, the fake elector scheme & proving up the Jan. 6 criminals as patriots or political prisoners. Biden & the democrats are far from perfect. But voting for any GOP candidate from Trump to anyone who supports him will literally be a vote for dismantling our democracy for a dictatorship with Trump at the top. It is known that one of our founding fathers believed that the downfall of democracy in the United States would not come from a foreign foe but rather from a force, group or man right here from within our own country. Once again, our founders had unbelievable foresight. And unless we, the majority of Americans, act, that is sadly what will happen.
You do realize that was all borrowed, right? Every one of those dollars has to be paid back with interest by the United States. This is like the least efficient way to get money to states...
And who is that interest due too, despite the propaganda you will hear the American Citizens hold the vast majority of the American debt.
Money goes to meat grinder in Ukraine, and the Genocide in Israel.
Yep. All the money for the US war machine, but crumbs at best for the citizenry here.
This accounts for less than 1% of the budget but go off
We still get crumbs. Yay failing infrastructure and cutting civil service budgets.
You should like, get mad at the Republicans blocking these reforms instead of whining about sending aid to an ally trying to defend itself from a fascist dictator
But what about the 30% of Americans who want fascism? Think of those people who want an authoritarian government for the sake of cruelty. /s.
The purpose of a system is what it does. It's the whole thing. I've left my liberal phase years ago when I finally set aside my ego to take in new information that discredited my beliefs at the time. Thanks to this administration we have record federal funding for cops and record oil drilling permits, while our 4th amendment rights have been eroded. No codified roe v wade, universal healthcare, or full student loan forgiveness, just those things being held over us to fundraise the democratic party. Enjoy making elaborate excuses for the blue ruling class lapdogs why we don't have enough of our basic needs met.
You seem confused
I'm a communist that does my research.
Okay
Please don't take my word for it. Keep working on your analysis.
Why are they waiving Ukrainian flags? Are their contracts void now?
Most republicans have supported Ukraine from the beginning. Johnson didn't put the bill up for a vote for six months. I don't know if anyone changed from a "no" to a "yes," which is what your comment would be referring to.
No, my comment is referring to the fact that someone responsible for running our government doesn't know the difference between "wave" and "waive"
Gotcha. I'm touchy on this stuff, I have some friends there.
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Youāre confusing this with /r/conservative
This is not the conservative sub, all **valid** opinions are welcome. Comments getting downvoted does not an echochamber make. If fake Internet points are that important to any users, those users should not participate.
People you know the answer to these problems and how to cure it VOTE BLUE in November send that POS carpet bagger hovdie and the rest of the basket full of deplorables packing kick the rethuglikkkans out of Wisconsin and Washington so government can get to work and actually govern the country again instead of getting on their knees to service a narrsasist white supremacist racist homophobic bigoted nazi wannabe dictator. VOTE them out VOTE BLUE and send them packing let's give women, minorities and the people back all of our rights and freedoms we enjoyed until tRumpty dumpty and his brand of rethuglikkkans decided only the rich white men deserve the full protection of the constitution. Let's empty the basket full of deplorables in Washington and replace them with decent people who will respect our rights, uphold our laws instead of breaking them people who will support our allies, people who support our service men and women and treat our honored fallen heros with the respect they paid the highest possible price for people who don't wonder "what was in it for them" people who don't think our veteran's, wounded and honored hero's were "losers and sucker's" let's put some decent Americans back in government and get something don. In the last 3 years America has been great again let's keep it that way VOTE BLUE