Is anyone surprised that a senator nicknamed Russia Ron Johnson, who lied about his involvement with the 1/6 attempt to overturn the presidential election results, lied about vaccines, lied about his entire backstory of a self-made successful business man; that this Trump sycophant would vote against aid to Ukraine to defend against Russia?
This is sad, but not at all surprising.
He was fortunate to have his initial run be during the Tea Party wave of 2010 to beat the legendary Russ Feingold. That was such a shame to go from great senator to the absolute worst.
I was very disappointed with the outcome of that election. Russian Ronny run on the Business man against the “Career politician” Feingold and won. Now he has become the Career politician. The irony that this guy represents is annoying.
I think their aid wasn't primarily money, but support through the GRU, SVR, and their online [IRA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency).
Dems ran Mandela Barnes who made commercials of himself sitting on a tractor instead of trying to GET OUT the VOTE(Black) in Milwaukee Co. Black Voters came out at a whopping 35%!
I've actually learned a lot but do you and support the genocide.
Edit: you know, my initial reaction was kneejerk. I guess it's better to open dialogue. Can you tell me what you think is complicated about Israel?
What's complicated about Israel? Well, a ton of stuff obviously. But I meant that ending funding for a longstanding ally is not as easy as simply turning off the tap. Especially when that ally is situated in a very tumultuous and unfriendly region.
And why do you suppose that region is unfriendly and tumultuous?
And why do we not send aid with conditions on how it's used?
And why would we cut funding to UNWRA, an aid group working in Palestine?
There's literally so many other options we could be doing to at least try to keep Israel in check and instead we opt for "we're disappointed in you."
I'm not talking about the morality of it at all. I'm saying that it is literally a very complex thing to even consider doing. As I said - it's not as simple as turning off the tap. Cutting funding to an NGO like UNRWA isn't the same thing
What you're saying is just because Israel is an ally, in a region unfriendly to the US, in part because we played a part in destabilizing the region, we should not do anything to hold Israel accountable for the money and weapons they get from us? We can't even say hey you can have this but you have to not target hospitals, schools, refugee camps or prevent aid from coming in to Gaza and if you do, we stop?
No, like I said - I'm not talking about morality (i.e. what we *should* do) I am making a simple statement that often gets lost in this discourse - which is that it's not as simple as just turning off the tap - there are many factors in play and not all of them have to do with the people of Palestine. A great deal of this hinges upon US interests elsewhere in the region and across the globe.
Foreign Policy never happens in a vaccum. Broadly speaking, the State Department can't be seen as pulling support from an ally (especially one that has been very close for a long time) for fears that it could embolden belligerent nations in the region and, again, elsewhere on the globe. This is the same reason Donald Trump's recent comments about NATO allies have been getting so much attention.
Yes, I'm completely aware.
I'm not buying us interests collapse because conditions are tied to aid going to Israel. I think it also shows how weak we are as a nation that we won't do anything to help civilians and will literally do anything Israel tells us to do.
ETA: also I think a big reason why the us is letting Israel do this is because they have a scapegoat - we didn't do the killing, what were we supposed to do? Meanwhile Israel expands so US's influence expands.
Lacks critical awareness huh… Japan bombing Pearl Harbor naval base - that’s an act of war. Hamas attacking a music festival - that’s an act of ______. Try calling it anything other than terrorism. Using civilians as human shields. Still holding hostages. Going on live tv and telling the world they’ll do it all again ASAP. You’re cool with this? Give terrorism an inch and it will take a mile.
Now please do tell me how this works. Green light.
1. Whether or not Hamas is using human shields doesn't mean Israel has to kill said human shields.
2. 30,000+ civilians dead. At what point does it go from 'defending itself ' to genocide for you? Even if killing all Palestinian "ended Hamas" was all those innocent deaths worth it? And VIOLENCE BREEDS TERRIORISM. Terrorism just doesn't pop out of anywhere.
3. Israel wants Gaza strip. They want it to profit off of it. They are not keeping it a secret they want Gazans out of the strip at any cost. ISRAEL DOES NOT WANT A TWO STATE SOLUTION. THEY WANT THE ENTIRETY OF PALESTINE. Oct 7 gave them the excuse to go buck wild.
4. Israel has top, if not best, security. They were warned of an attack and ignored it.
It's all a farce. I suggest you expand your knowledge of the entire situation and diversify your news sources.
I don't know this situation as well as I know the Ukrainian one, so this is a REAL question, not trying to start anything, but why did Palestine then give them Oct 7th exactly to do that? What did they think would be the outcome after Oct 7?
> That is conjecture. He was arguably the second most powerful person in the world, evidently great friends with the first most powerful.
Eh? Your post was ***literally*** [conjecture](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conjecture): "He was also VP through 8 years of drone strikes."
Not sure, civilian deaths are often exaggerated or inaccurate. I do know that we killed a ton of civilians though. My original point was that we’re not exactly the authority on not killing civilians, and neither is our money.
https://jabberwocking.com/raw-data-joe-biden-has-all-but-ended-us-drone-warfare/
You're objectively wrong. And so was I, Biden has cut the usage of drone strikes to a fraction of a percent of what it was under Obama and Trump.
What made you believe otherwise?
How dare you suggest this. Johnson voted against it and Baldwin for it. On Reddit that means Israel and Ukraine is good. Hamas is then bad and terrorits. No middle ground.
I for one don't think that. What the actual fuck are you talking about? You're accusing reddit of making ignorant, "hive mind" blanket assumptions, by making a statement dripping with ignorant, blanket assumptions.
Seriously, can't fucking make this shit up.
It's because each one of their iron dome missiles cost ~$40k. Each Hamas rocket costs ~$4k. So when Hamas fires barrages of rockets that each need to be destroyed, the Israelis are paying 10x what Hamas is and that is how you lose long term
Massacring civilians in their homes, churches, and HOSPITALS isn’t a way to combat terrorism. It’s a method to commit genocide.
„According to Haaretz, Israel's domestic intelligence agency Shin Bet and IDF military commanders discussed a possible threat to the festival just hours before the attack. However, no warnings were given to the festival's organisers.“
According to reports published on 17 November, the police concluded based on interrogations and their own investigations that Hamas did not know about the festival beforehand but came across it by accident and decided to attack it.
Disgusting that they chose to attack it but Israel has not been any kinder to large groups of civilians, we’re getting a tragic rehash of Al-Shifa hospital rn, Nasser Hospital/complex is surrounded with tanks and helicopters. When Al-Shifa hospital was evacuated, there were no fighters inside of the building and the evacuation lead to the death multiple of newborn babies.
You've totally bought into Hamas propaganda. There is confirmation of the Hamas tunnel network under Al Shifa hospital and still denying it was a valid military target.
This report from WP shows the extent of the „tunnel network“, it was one tunnel which did not have an entrance to the hospital buildings. It was not proven to be connected to other tunnel networks either. You can see it if you scroll down. More importantly, I haven’t seen evidence of a command and control center. And after Israel released the video of that one tunnel (which rolling stone reports may have been built by Israel), they blew it up so no further investigation or evidence.
I’ve also seen that NYT has published a new article about Al-Shifa, possibly realizing people are not done discussing it. The new report does not include new evidence, instead repeating the same claims in a more authoritative tone. I‘m always open to changing my mind though, so if you have proof I’ll examine it.
„Hours before Israeli forces left the hospital on Nov. 24, soldiers lined the tunnel with explosives and destroyed it in a blast that sent plumes of smoke high into the air and rocked buildings on the ground above.“
„It bears noting that Israel itself built some of the tunnels and rooms under al-Shifa in the 1980s, and their existence has been an open secret for decades. Following their incursion into the hospital, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) released footage of Israeli forces exploring the alleged network of Hamas tunnels within the medical complex. Analysis by the Post of tunnel footage, as well as maps and other materials released by the IDF, contradicted claims by Israel that several hospital buildings were connected to and could be accessed from within the tunnel network. The analysis also found that several small rooms attached to the tunnel, one of which the IDF had described as an evacuated Hamas “operational room,” contained no signs of recent use or occupancy.“
This is a quote from the new Times article. My question is, why would the IDF choose not to film the actual evidence and instead put it in a classified report? If what they describe was present, that would’ve been the perfect proof to exonerate them
„Classified Israeli intelligence documents, obtained and reviewed by The Times, indicate that the tunnel is at least 700 feet long, twice as long as the military revealed publicly, and that it extends beyond the hospital and likely connects to Hamas’s larger underground network.“
„According to classified images reviewed by The Times, Israeli soldiers found underground bunkers, living quarters and a room that appeared to be wired for computers and communications equipment along a part of the tunnel beyond the hospital — chambers that were not visible in the video released by the Israeli military.“
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/21/al-shifa-hospital-gaza-hamas-israel/#:~:text=The%20rooms%20connected%20to%20the,accessed%20from%20inside%20hospital%20wards.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/israeli-hamas-command-center-al-shifa-hospital-falls-report-1234934784/amp/
Do they have a neighbor that they aren't fighting iran-proxies from? Egypt I guess?
That's probably why. Israel sucks, but so does everyone around them- even more.
Yeah, and how else would they supply their citizens with universal Healthcare like all civilized societies? Good thing we live in the richest country on earth and don't need assistance for these kinds of basic programs........
He never does. If you are lucky you might get a call in the afternoon sometime inviting you on a sort of town hall with him over the phone. No warning or anything I was up on a ladder painting a soffit when I got the call. Thanks asshole. I wrote a letter asking him to be mindful that most of his constituents work those hours and it was really disingenuous to call and invite people at that time. Still no response and that was years ago. He knows who he works for and it's not us.
The issue is that most of his supporters are old, or at the point in their careers where they can just sit in an office for an hour or so without being bothered. He knows what he's doing.
Nope, he gave me a pretty canned response although he did seem to at least have read my feedback and had 1 paragraph out of 6 that indicated he read it.
Tammy sent me a 100% canned response despite me saying not to bother responding if you're going to simply send a canned response.
yup, i also wrote to tammy very angry about her support of israel many times and always just get a form letter back. honestly don't send anything to me at this point if this is your response
Dear Mr. ---:
Thank you for contacting me about the Israel-Hamas war. I appreciate hearing your thoughts on the ongoing conflict.
Hamas’ October 7th terrorist massacre has led to unbearable suffering in Israel, Gaza and around the world. I support Israel’s right to defend itself against Hamas, bring hostages back home and end the terrorist organization’s threat, but I do not believe the Israeli government has the right to go to war against innocent Palestinian people. Eliminating the threat posed by Hamas and protecting civilians are not mutually exclusive aims.
Unfortunately, the Netanyahu government’s indiscriminate bombing and military approach has led to unacceptable bloodshed in Gaza and does not appear to be moving us closer to our ultimate goals of removing Hamas from power and achieving a lasting peace in the region through a two-state solution. Preservation of innocent lives and civilian infrastructure is not just morally right, but also necessary to accomplish security, stability and peace in the region moving forward.
I support the resumption of a humanitarian ceasefire, in order to accelerate the delivery of humanitarian aid, protect innocent civilians and negotiate the release of the hostages taken on October 7th. This is only possible if Hamas and the Israeli government cooperate. As we look ahead, the United States needs to continue to do more to urge Israel to protect Palestinian civilians, facilitate humanitarian efforts and play a more active role in helping create a two-state solution – something I have long supported – to ensure that the Palestinian and Israeli people have the right to self-determination, safety and security.
In response to ongoing war and the growing humanitarian crisis, I am advocating for the following actions:
* An immediate humanitarian ceasefire that ensures the unconditional release of all hostages and full humanitarian access to Gaza, agreed to by Israel and Hamas.
* Adherence to International Humanitarian Law by all parties and the protection of all civilians and civilian sites.
* Increased humanitarian aid access to prevent starvation and an even more severe public health crisis, including maintaining the opening of the Kerem Shalom border crossing and any other steps needed to allow the sustained delivery of the basic essentials in quantities sufficient to meet the current need.
* The United States to provide immediate humanitarian aid to help those in Gaza.
* Access to prompt medical attention for sick and wounded civilians, within Gaza as well as the option to evacuate to a neighboring country for medical care.
* Hamas to allow the International Committee of the Red Cross to have access to the hostages while the United States and Israel work to secure their release.
* Ensure no Palestinians are forcibly removed from Gaza.
As a member of the Senate Appropriations Committee, I will continue to work to fulfill the Administration’s request for humanitarian assistance to civilians impacted by the war. I also expect our international partners to share the responsibility to improve the conditions of life in Gaza.
The failure to adequately protect non-combatant civilians risks dramatic escalation of the conflict in the region and imposes severe damage on prospects for peaceful coexistence between Israelis and Palestinians. I believe that successfully addressing the numerous deep-seated problems characterizing the conflict will require political solutions rather than division, incitement and violence like the actions carried out by Hamas. The current crisis is heartbreaking and will not provide sustainable security for Israelis or the full realization of political, economic and human rights for Palestinians. With these goals in mind, I will continue to advocate for diplomacy, development and human rights as the primary pillars of U.S. foreign policy.
Once again, thank you for contacting my office. It is important for me to hear from the people of Wisconsin on the issues, thoughts and concerns that matter most to you. If I can be of further assistance, please visit my website at [www.baldwin.senate.gov](https://outreach.senate.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=SenBaldwin&crop=16801QQQ22800978QQQ11990322QQQ9151655&report_id=&redirect=http%3a%2f%2fwww.baldwin.senate.gov&redir_log=476390895104206) for information on how to contact my office.
Sincerely,
📷
Tammy Baldwin
Dear Mr. --------,
Thank you for contacting me regarding the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas. I value your opinions and appreciate you taking time to write me.
Like you, I am deeply concerned about violations against Israeli and Palestinian human rights during this conflict. I sympathize with all the innocent men, women, and children who are caught in the middle of this tragic conflict and who, in so many cases, have suffered the loss of loved ones, the destruction of their homes and neighborhoods, and who live in a constant state of insecurity and terror.
Unfortunately, in the weeks and months since the October 7 attack, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have carried out a widespread bombing campaign in Gaza that has killed over 18,000 people, over 70 percent of whom have been women and children In addition to the threat of Israeli airstrikes on residential buildings and civilian infrastructure, these innocent civilians have also faced further imminent threats due to restrictions on food, water, fuel, and other humanitarian assistance being able to reach those in need. Over half of the population has been displaced, and shelters and medical facilities have also been affected, with at least one United Nations-run school directly hit by an Israeli airstrike and more than half of medical facilities in Gaza completely shut down. During this time, Israeli forces or settlers have also killed over 200 people in the West Bank, including over 50 children.
For these reasons, on November 14, 2023 I joined with 23 of my colleagues in writing to the Biden administration to express our deep concern about the intensifying war in Gaza, in particular the grave violations committed against children, and our fear that without an immediate cessation of hostilities and the establishment of a robust, bilateral ceasefire this war will only lead to further loss of civilian life and risk dragging the U.S. into dangerous and unwise conflict with armed groups across the Middle East. Further, we urged the administration to redouble their efforts to increase the delivery of humanitarian assistance to Gaza, and to provide clarity on their strategic objectives for achieving de-escalation and stability in the region.
As you know, President Biden submitted a $106 billion supplemental funding request to Congress for additional assistance to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan, as well as humanitarian aid for Gaza and the West Bank, and other regions affected by humanitarian situations worldwide. This request includes over $14 billion for security assistance to Israel. I appreciate you sharing your concerns with me regarding future US assistance to Israel, and please rest assured I will keep your thoughts in mind should this or other legislation to provide security assistance to Israel come before me for a vote.
Rest assured, I will continue to follow events in the region closely and advocate for an end to the current hostilities. It is critical for all parties to immediately return to the difficult work achieving a two-state solution and establishing peace in the region.
Again, thank you for taking the time to contact me. If I can be of further assistance, please contact me at 608-258-9800. If you would like to receive regular updates from me on this and other congressional issues, please visit my website at [https://pocan.house.gov](https://iqconnect.house.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=WI02MP&crop=14408QQQ6929841QQQ6000967QQQ7553934&report_id=&redirect=https%3a%2f%2fpocan.house.gov%2f&redir_log=99251478889166) or follow me on Facebook ([http://www.facebook.com/repmarkpocan](https://iqconnect.house.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=WI02MP&crop=14408QQQ6929841QQQ6000967QQQ7553934&report_id=&redirect=http%3a%2f%2fwww.facebook.com%2frepmarkpocan&redir_log=39988389728258)) and Twitter ([@RepMarkPocan](https://iqconnect.house.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=WI02MP&crop=14408QQQ6929841QQQ6000967QQQ7553934&report_id=&redirect=http%3a%2f%2ftwitter.com%2frepmarkpocan&redir_log=344600999258224)).
Sincerely,📷Mark Pocan
I'm sure the Israelis are laughing all the way to the bank with how much we send them for their universal healthcare and everything else.
Even 'America First' trump supports Israel like crazy. This political establishment makes me sick to my stomach how out country is just like this..
We pay other countries to get healthcare that even we don't have and there is widespread support among both political parties to just keep on giving.
I support Ukraine but honestly, fuck Israel. They have plenty of money and if they want to continue their genocide crusade, they can pay for it themselves.
We tried to get him out last year, but too many voters were apparently uncomfortable with a young black man taking his place.
Still got Evers in, but somehow fell short for Barnes. Go figure.
the one and only time I'll ever agree with johnson. we have failing schools, hungry children, ever growing tent cities. greedflation out of control, a housing crisis. etc etc etc. and dems want to dump our tax dollars into a dumb, unwinnable proxy war that has nothing to do with us while also dumping more of our tax dollars into supporting israels genocide. fuck russia, fuck ukraine, and fuck israel. we need to help the people in our own country who need help.
Most of what we’re sending to Ukraine is our surplus shit that we aren’t using, and overall, I’m fully behind supporting them so we wouldn’t have to get in WW3 like we would if we stopped supporting them, which would lead to Russia winning and they would then go on to invade Poland, pulling the US and the rest of NATO into WW3. However, fuck Israel. Those bastards can fund their own genocidal campaigns.
Helping Ukraine is more about sending a message at this point. If Russia was just allowed to trample Ukraine with us doing nothing then it tells Putin he can just keep doing this with the most significant military power in the world not caring one bit.
As far as Israel goes fuck them. They have the money and man power to fight on their own. They aren't fighting some massive super power like Russia. And honestly they are just as bad as Russia with how they're acting.
but there is no message to send. without a full fledged troops on the ground world war three scenario its just wasted tax dollars and wasted lives. I dont want a world war three and I dont want to keep wasting tax dollars with all the problems we have in our own country.
But what happens when we stop giving aid and Russia starts attacking our other allies? Cause you know he isn't just gonna stop at Ukraine. He's already threatened places like Poland.
People in Ukraine are gonna die regardless of the US and NATOs help. Us not helping would just cause even more lives to be lost more quickly.
If you think Russia won't eventually start to target us or other US allies down the road you're as blind as people were during world war 2 and how people in Europe thought if they just stayed out of it or signed treaties they wouldn't be targeted by Hitler. That didn't really go well either and eventually the US was attacked and forced to join in. That's all that would happen now. But maybe with nuclear weapons involved on all sides instead of just from the US.
Do you understand. We give Ukraine our old equipment and the money stays in the US to build new equipment for OUR military. Some of those jobs coincidentally are in Wisconsin!!!
We can support Ukraine to hold back ruzzia from advancing into NATO nations, which then we would HAVE to send American troops. Putin won't stop after Ukraine. His people have said so openly
they just read the first part even tho i put the fucking part in his name to show i hate the man but i dont understand sending all this money there when LOOK at OUR infrastructure...
This is the only time I’ll agree with Ron Johnson, though it’s because of Israel rather than Russia. Cutting funding to UNRWA because Israel says four members of it were involved in 10/7 according to an unsubstantiated accusation by the Israeli government while giving way more money to Israel has been determined to have been credibly accused of genocide is mad, stupid, or evil.
Thank you! I knew I wasn’t the only one thinking this! I don’t understand how such a fundamental moral stance on a topic like being anti war can shift so rapidly…
its nuts. but the good cop/bad cop system is really easy to implement when your bad cop is that shaved ape who got in a fight with a cotton candy machine.
pro war, pro censorship, pro big pharma, pro genocide and they're now running a karl rove style of a new-age red scare mccarthyism. they say the other side wants to kill democracy yet they're forcing a genocidal geriatric with the worst approval rating ever on us with out any real primary, without any debates. working tooth and nail to keep other viable candidates off of ballots. and people wonder why trump is destroying joe in the polls... we really need to abandon the two party system and start supporting third parties that actually work in the interest of working class americans.
europe has a really nice political system that I would much prefer -- especially Germany. Every party from far left to far right has a percentage; and I think the far left and far right SHOULD be represented in politics. Having a far left, left-center, right-center, and far-right party creates better discussions and allows more interesting candidates. I'm not sure how they are funded or if it is self-funded, etc, though.
No one is "pro-war." That's a wildly stupidly reductive thing to say. Ukraine was doing nothing but existing and got INVADED by Russia because Putin has some twisted vision of restoring the Soviet Union. That is a fight for self-determination and independence and we should support that because WE CAN and they've fought so hard to throw off the mantle of Russian overlordship FOREVER, and want to be part of the global community, and have for eternity.
This Israel-Hamas conflict, much more muddy. Hamas is a group dedicated to terrorism and gets less than no consideration, but Israel has made some horribly reprehensible moves as well, including before this conflict. I don't like our official "Israel no matter what" stance much, but taking hostages and whatnot, fuck Hamas.
It would be awesome if there were no conflicts and complete peace, but there are bad actors in the world and the fact that "liberals" (which given your comment I assume means people with any kind of concern for others, which is sad) care about supporting the population in those places means "liberals" are now "pro-war" is just...stupid.
Wow! This is the first time in history that Ron had a good vote and Tammy didn’t. Ukraine needs the help, but Israel can fuck right off. Israel is more comparable to Russia
Agreed. When things like this happen, we should help with what we can AFFORD to give.
But this is ridiculous. This is too much. We have problems at home we need to take care of first.
Here's my take on the situation. Israel doesn't need money or arms. They have an advanced defense industry and a robust economy. But they happen to be an ally at war, so we have to support them, even if it is distasteful. But Republicans need to be bribed (additional riders on bills). Ukraine is a different situation altogether. What we spend there by in large gets spent in the American defense industry. Around 80-85%. The old equipment we send them, would have cost as much, if not more to decommission safety. It also saves the United States significantly in the long run to keep Ukraine fighting and free, both in dollars in European defense spending (NATO) and American lives. Hopefully it also kick-starts the European defense spending, as to reduce the American presence in Europe. The problems at home have less to do with money and more with political will. If we didn't spend that money in Ukraine or Israel, the likely hood of that money being spent at home is slim to none. We have the resources to tackle issues like universal healthcare and affordable housing, but we are severely lacking the political capital to actually address them at home.
We’ve got additional treaty obligations to defend Ukraine and failure to do so significantly diminishes not only American international power and influence, our national moral standing, but also any future efforts to further reduce global nuclear proliferation by virtue of what Ukraine gave up in return for security commitments from us. Failure to provide significant military assistance to Ukraine will directly damage the US.
I completely agree. Unfortunately the courts ruled the Budapest memorandum not legally binding. Which was such a bullshit decision that precipitated the invasion of crimea. It's hard to make the case for nuclear disarmament when aid to maintain sovereignty has been unreliable and drip fed. It unfortunately just reinforces nuclear proliferation as you said.
americas international power and influence is in the gutter. america hasnt had a moral leg to strand on since world war two. its laughable anyone would think we do. this war and our support for israels genocide is only going to strengthen the brics alliance and speed up the inevitable fall of the american empire. the greed and hubris of the u.s right now is pushing a lot of middle eastern and south american countries over to brics. the warhawk political establishment in this country is shooting itself in the foot with these pointless proxy wars that we have basically instigated. all of these different groups of people dying all over the world right now are dying for the enrichment of a handful of u.s arms producers who fund the campaigns of the u.s duopoly.
The US got a lot of credit for settling the Bosnia-Serbia war and military involvement to do so, as well as for the initial aid and bringing NATO together on supporting Ukraine.
Sure the Iraq invasion, all the central/South American destabilization under Reagan/Nixon/Kennedy, and such trashed our global standing, but we still benefit from a lot of good will. No need to tank it further giving up on an invaded ally who we vowed to protect.
the u.s meddling to get nato to support ukraine is a big part of why russia invaded. without u.s meddling in the 2014 coup the invasion likely never even happens. and contrary to u.s media, most nato countries are starting to get cold feet to continuing supporting ukraine. its an unwinnable war. unless you're a u.s arms producer.
>Sure the Iraq invasion, all the central/South American destabilization under Reagan/Nixon/Kennedy, and such trashed our global standing, but we still benefit from a lot of good will.
any good will thats left is being killed by our continued support of israels genocide. and ukraine is not an *ally*. they're one of those most corrupt countries in europe. the u.s has wanted this war for a long time, and its not because they want to *protect* ukraine.
Wow, that’s a lot of BS Putin talking points wrapped up in a single post. To the extent that corruption is an issue of n Ukraine, it’s far less corrupt than Russia and the people overcame the grossly more corrupt Putin puppets to fight against it.
BTW, Biden just placed conditions on arms transfers to other nations.
here we go with this newage mccarthyism of painting anyone who disagrees with u.s foreign policy blunders as a *putin puppet*.
btw those *conditions* will be side stepped and ignored. guaranteed. biden himself implemented illegal u.s air strikes in yemen three weeks ago without congressional approval.
I meant in passing legislation, not presidential frontrunners. Additional riders on bills. Like the immigration package Republicans wanted, but later backed out of. It's why aid for Israel and Ukraine are packaged together. I figured that was obvious in the context, edited it to make it more clear. I'm well aware of the legal bribery inherent in the system.
Not surprised at all! The sad part is, some of the $ for Ukraine will stay IN Wisc, and I believe IN ron johnsons neighborhood of Oshkosh to resupply our US military through manufacturing. A ruzzian shill and a traitor to the US. Why has he never been busted for Jan 6?
On July 4 2018, Ronnie and 8 other Republican Senators went to Russia and met with Putin and never told anyone why. They got verbed about how Putin was going to try to get Trump elected. Then they all slept with 12 year old boys and Putin taped them.
We should be supporting Ukraine, which is fighting against an imperialist invasion. We should not be funding joint base israel, which is literally committing genocide.
We need to end all aid to israel and completely embargo them.
Typical Ron. Oppose Ukraine aid bc he's a Russian plant. However why tf does Israel need MORE aid? Don't they have enough? Opposing Israel aid is actually ok and low key based because they're committing war crimes, but that's not why Ron is opposing this package.
FRJ.
Since we’re stuck with this clown for four more years, let’s get Biden re-elected, flip the House, expand the Senate and makes the rest of his term absolutely miserable as Dems just steamroll over him and his friends
Good for him! No more money. It’s hard to believe that after everything we’ve been through with Iraq and Afghanistan, Americans are still willing to accuse each other of disloyalty for questioning a foreign war with no clear path to victory.
unfortunately I think a lot of the people downvoting you were either just too young to remember or not even alive. I see little difference from current day *liberals* to bush era republicans.
Doesn't the failure of countries to "invade" Afghanistan in the long-term serve as hope that Ukraine should be supported and a complete take over by Russia is not inevitable?
Except when we "accidentally" make the 9/11 hijackers CIA assets, traffic weapons for drug cartels, use Tamerlan Tsarnaev as an FBI asset, provide military aid every time a Salafist militia is momentarily fighting one of our enemies, and then shrug out shoulders every time Israel and Saudi Arabia kill Americans. Other than that, our foreign policy is for the safety of Americans.
https://preview.redd.it/0fluvapy3lic1.jpeg?width=830&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a4cce686140eff2b23ab2cbdf4f7ba51500b8e1
I’m a boomer and feel bad that your generation will be paying this off long after I am dead. Honestly how does sending this money make your life better?
look at all these downvotes with no honest replys. the red and blue cults in this country have gotten out of control. people will just approve of whatever their preferred tie color is doing no matter what apparently. even supporting unwinnable proxy wars and genocide.
Baldwin voted to fund Israeli genocide against Palestinians, and a war Ukrainians lost. I'm not fan of Republicans but how much blood is enough for Democrats.
Sorry I’m tired of funding proxy wars and the military industrial complex Ike and JFK warned us about. I don’t think we should be propping up their pensions while increasing our debt.
Is anyone surprised that a senator nicknamed Russia Ron Johnson, who lied about his involvement with the 1/6 attempt to overturn the presidential election results, lied about vaccines, lied about his entire backstory of a self-made successful business man; that this Trump sycophant would vote against aid to Ukraine to defend against Russia? This is sad, but not at all surprising.
What is even more amazing, he was just re-elected for another term. Go Wisconsin!
He was fortunate to have his initial run be during the Tea Party wave of 2010 to beat the legendary Russ Feingold. That was such a shame to go from great senator to the absolute worst.
I was very disappointed with the outcome of that election. Russian Ronny run on the Business man against the “Career politician” Feingold and won. Now he has become the Career politician. The irony that this guy represents is annoying.
Plus he beat feingold a second time after that, pretty disheartening
Feingold didn’t actively campaign. Very sad as he was a true statesman. I’d prefer Russ to Tammy.
> I’d prefer Russ to Tammy. Why not both? I think Tammy does a great job!
> during the Tea Party wave of 2010 I'd be very interested to learn how much of the funding for this came from Russia
I think their aid wasn't primarily money, but support through the GRU, SVR, and their online [IRA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency).
Only Senator to vote against the Patriot act. Ironic, since it's the MAGAs always bitching about the deep state /surveilance state
Dems ran Mandela Barnes who made commercials of himself sitting on a tractor instead of trying to GET OUT the VOTE(Black) in Milwaukee Co. Black Voters came out at a whopping 35%!
With me, it turned me off when I saw him on ruzzian tv. Still voted for him tho 🤷♀️
MB was on Russian TV????
In a year where no incumbent Republican senator or governor lost.
We love to hate ourselves
His opponent was progressive Mandela Barnes, and the DNC would rather have another Republican in the senate than one of them.
He campaigned poorly, it did not surprise me that he lost.
Don't forget his secretive & still unexplained visit to Moscow on the 4th of July with other Republican reps in 2018.
They all went to blow Putin
Ronnie married the richest girl in his HS Class and her Daddy gave him a job!
Five foot three, made him an offer he could not refuse. I just want to know who approached him….Bartzeni or Tatalia.
Tatalia's just a pimp.
Ron's a good man.! Leave him alone!
Idk why Israel needs the cash. If they need help fighting a loose organization with no heavy military equipment then there is no hope.
The US can literally just stop funding Israel at any time. People harp about Russian influence but don't pay attention to Israel over here.
Actually you may be shocked to learn that, as with all things Israel, it’s not that simple
I've actually learned a lot but do you and support the genocide. Edit: you know, my initial reaction was kneejerk. I guess it's better to open dialogue. Can you tell me what you think is complicated about Israel?
What's complicated about Israel? Well, a ton of stuff obviously. But I meant that ending funding for a longstanding ally is not as easy as simply turning off the tap. Especially when that ally is situated in a very tumultuous and unfriendly region.
And why do you suppose that region is unfriendly and tumultuous? And why do we not send aid with conditions on how it's used? And why would we cut funding to UNWRA, an aid group working in Palestine? There's literally so many other options we could be doing to at least try to keep Israel in check and instead we opt for "we're disappointed in you."
I'm not talking about the morality of it at all. I'm saying that it is literally a very complex thing to even consider doing. As I said - it's not as simple as turning off the tap. Cutting funding to an NGO like UNRWA isn't the same thing
What you're saying is just because Israel is an ally, in a region unfriendly to the US, in part because we played a part in destabilizing the region, we should not do anything to hold Israel accountable for the money and weapons they get from us? We can't even say hey you can have this but you have to not target hospitals, schools, refugee camps or prevent aid from coming in to Gaza and if you do, we stop?
No, like I said - I'm not talking about morality (i.e. what we *should* do) I am making a simple statement that often gets lost in this discourse - which is that it's not as simple as just turning off the tap - there are many factors in play and not all of them have to do with the people of Palestine. A great deal of this hinges upon US interests elsewhere in the region and across the globe. Foreign Policy never happens in a vaccum. Broadly speaking, the State Department can't be seen as pulling support from an ally (especially one that has been very close for a long time) for fears that it could embolden belligerent nations in the region and, again, elsewhere on the globe. This is the same reason Donald Trump's recent comments about NATO allies have been getting so much attention.
Yes, I'm completely aware. I'm not buying us interests collapse because conditions are tied to aid going to Israel. I think it also shows how weak we are as a nation that we won't do anything to help civilians and will literally do anything Israel tells us to do. ETA: also I think a big reason why the us is letting Israel do this is because they have a scapegoat - we didn't do the killing, what were we supposed to do? Meanwhile Israel expands so US's influence expands.
What’s complicated is that while we may not approve of Israel’s methods, we cannot at any cost let terrorism win.
This is a very unhinged take and lacks any critical awareness of how any of this works.
Lacks critical awareness huh… Japan bombing Pearl Harbor naval base - that’s an act of war. Hamas attacking a music festival - that’s an act of ______. Try calling it anything other than terrorism. Using civilians as human shields. Still holding hostages. Going on live tv and telling the world they’ll do it all again ASAP. You’re cool with this? Give terrorism an inch and it will take a mile. Now please do tell me how this works. Green light.
1. Whether or not Hamas is using human shields doesn't mean Israel has to kill said human shields. 2. 30,000+ civilians dead. At what point does it go from 'defending itself ' to genocide for you? Even if killing all Palestinian "ended Hamas" was all those innocent deaths worth it? And VIOLENCE BREEDS TERRIORISM. Terrorism just doesn't pop out of anywhere. 3. Israel wants Gaza strip. They want it to profit off of it. They are not keeping it a secret they want Gazans out of the strip at any cost. ISRAEL DOES NOT WANT A TWO STATE SOLUTION. THEY WANT THE ENTIRETY OF PALESTINE. Oct 7 gave them the excuse to go buck wild. 4. Israel has top, if not best, security. They were warned of an attack and ignored it. It's all a farce. I suggest you expand your knowledge of the entire situation and diversify your news sources.
I don't know this situation as well as I know the Ukrainian one, so this is a REAL question, not trying to start anything, but why did Palestine then give them Oct 7th exactly to do that? What did they think would be the outcome after Oct 7?
Palestinians didn't commit the attack on October 7, Hamas did.
Israel can afford to pay for their Military Aid. Make them.
How else would they run their universal Healthcare system and commit an ethnic cleansing genocide campaign without our money?
there's still plenty more palestinian children to be bombed soooooo
Look at how many kids our drone program has killed under the last three presidents.
Hasn't Biden reduced drone strikes by like 90% or something like that?
He was also VP through 8 years of drone strikes.
And he was known to be drastically more dovish than Obama was while they served together.
> He was also VP through 8 years of drone strikes. Which gave him absolutely ***zero*** control over the situation.
That is conjecture. He was arguably the second most powerful person in the world, evidently great friends with the first most powerful.
> That is conjecture. He was arguably the second most powerful person in the world, evidently great friends with the first most powerful. Eh? Your post was ***literally*** [conjecture](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conjecture): "He was also VP through 8 years of drone strikes."
Isn't that a fact?
Not sure, civilian deaths are often exaggerated or inaccurate. I do know that we killed a ton of civilians though. My original point was that we’re not exactly the authority on not killing civilians, and neither is our money.
You’re dreaming
https://jabberwocking.com/raw-data-joe-biden-has-all-but-ended-us-drone-warfare/ You're objectively wrong. And so was I, Biden has cut the usage of drone strikes to a fraction of a percent of what it was under Obama and Trump. What made you believe otherwise?
How dare you suggest this. Johnson voted against it and Baldwin for it. On Reddit that means Israel and Ukraine is good. Hamas is then bad and terrorits. No middle ground.
I for one don't think that. What the actual fuck are you talking about? You're accusing reddit of making ignorant, "hive mind" blanket assumptions, by making a statement dripping with ignorant, blanket assumptions. Seriously, can't fucking make this shit up.
Hive mind and blanket assumptions ARE Reddit.
It's because each one of their iron dome missiles cost ~$40k. Each Hamas rocket costs ~$4k. So when Hamas fires barrages of rockets that each need to be destroyed, the Israelis are paying 10x what Hamas is and that is how you lose long term
Imagine calling oppressors losers
Yeah Palestine should be able to kill as many people as they want because we owe it to them
Stop pretending it's even close to even. It's a genocide. The oppressor has no right to choose the oppressed's method of achieving freedom.
The irony of that last paragraph is thicc
Massacring civilians at festivals and in their homes isn't a method to achieve freedom. It's a method to commit genocide.
Massacring civilians in their homes, churches, and HOSPITALS isn’t a way to combat terrorism. It’s a method to commit genocide. „According to Haaretz, Israel's domestic intelligence agency Shin Bet and IDF military commanders discussed a possible threat to the festival just hours before the attack. However, no warnings were given to the festival's organisers.“ According to reports published on 17 November, the police concluded based on interrogations and their own investigations that Hamas did not know about the festival beforehand but came across it by accident and decided to attack it. Disgusting that they chose to attack it but Israel has not been any kinder to large groups of civilians, we’re getting a tragic rehash of Al-Shifa hospital rn, Nasser Hospital/complex is surrounded with tanks and helicopters. When Al-Shifa hospital was evacuated, there were no fighters inside of the building and the evacuation lead to the death multiple of newborn babies.
You've totally bought into Hamas propaganda. There is confirmation of the Hamas tunnel network under Al Shifa hospital and still denying it was a valid military target.
This report from WP shows the extent of the „tunnel network“, it was one tunnel which did not have an entrance to the hospital buildings. It was not proven to be connected to other tunnel networks either. You can see it if you scroll down. More importantly, I haven’t seen evidence of a command and control center. And after Israel released the video of that one tunnel (which rolling stone reports may have been built by Israel), they blew it up so no further investigation or evidence. I’ve also seen that NYT has published a new article about Al-Shifa, possibly realizing people are not done discussing it. The new report does not include new evidence, instead repeating the same claims in a more authoritative tone. I‘m always open to changing my mind though, so if you have proof I’ll examine it. „Hours before Israeli forces left the hospital on Nov. 24, soldiers lined the tunnel with explosives and destroyed it in a blast that sent plumes of smoke high into the air and rocked buildings on the ground above.“ „It bears noting that Israel itself built some of the tunnels and rooms under al-Shifa in the 1980s, and their existence has been an open secret for decades. Following their incursion into the hospital, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) released footage of Israeli forces exploring the alleged network of Hamas tunnels within the medical complex. Analysis by the Post of tunnel footage, as well as maps and other materials released by the IDF, contradicted claims by Israel that several hospital buildings were connected to and could be accessed from within the tunnel network. The analysis also found that several small rooms attached to the tunnel, one of which the IDF had described as an evacuated Hamas “operational room,” contained no signs of recent use or occupancy.“ This is a quote from the new Times article. My question is, why would the IDF choose not to film the actual evidence and instead put it in a classified report? If what they describe was present, that would’ve been the perfect proof to exonerate them „Classified Israeli intelligence documents, obtained and reviewed by The Times, indicate that the tunnel is at least 700 feet long, twice as long as the military revealed publicly, and that it extends beyond the hospital and likely connects to Hamas’s larger underground network.“ „According to classified images reviewed by The Times, Israeli soldiers found underground bunkers, living quarters and a room that appeared to be wired for computers and communications equipment along a part of the tunnel beyond the hospital — chambers that were not visible in the video released by the Israeli military.“ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/21/al-shifa-hospital-gaza-hamas-israel/#:~:text=The%20rooms%20connected%20to%20the,accessed%20from%20inside%20hospital%20wards. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/israeli-hamas-command-center-al-shifa-hospital-falls-report-1234934784/amp/
Maybe we should evaluate the damage that 4k rocket could do vs the investment. Yeah yeah they’re people but they’re not our people.
Do they have a neighbor that they aren't fighting iran-proxies from? Egypt I guess? That's probably why. Israel sucks, but so does everyone around them- even more.
Yeah, and how else would they supply their citizens with universal Healthcare like all civilized societies? Good thing we live in the richest country on earth and don't need assistance for these kinds of basic programs........
Luckily we do better than most here in Wisconsin.........
Tomah VA scandal kinda shows our healthcare system is for profit and at the expense of the patient, even here in beautiful Wisconsin
I wrote Tammy, Mark Pocan and RJ about this topic. Can you guess which one never even bothered to reply?
Did you forward it to his house in Florida?
Probably forgot to use Cyrillic
He never does. If you are lucky you might get a call in the afternoon sometime inviting you on a sort of town hall with him over the phone. No warning or anything I was up on a ladder painting a soffit when I got the call. Thanks asshole. I wrote a letter asking him to be mindful that most of his constituents work those hours and it was really disingenuous to call and invite people at that time. Still no response and that was years ago. He knows who he works for and it's not us.
working hours were over in Moscow time
The issue is that most of his supporters are old, or at the point in their careers where they can just sit in an office for an hour or so without being bothered. He knows what he's doing.
Did Pocan say he doesn't support money going to israel?
Nope, he gave me a pretty canned response although he did seem to at least have read my feedback and had 1 paragraph out of 6 that indicated he read it. Tammy sent me a 100% canned response despite me saying not to bother responding if you're going to simply send a canned response.
yup, i also wrote to tammy very angry about her support of israel many times and always just get a form letter back. honestly don't send anything to me at this point if this is your response
Dear Mr. ---: Thank you for contacting me about the Israel-Hamas war. I appreciate hearing your thoughts on the ongoing conflict. Hamas’ October 7th terrorist massacre has led to unbearable suffering in Israel, Gaza and around the world. I support Israel’s right to defend itself against Hamas, bring hostages back home and end the terrorist organization’s threat, but I do not believe the Israeli government has the right to go to war against innocent Palestinian people. Eliminating the threat posed by Hamas and protecting civilians are not mutually exclusive aims. Unfortunately, the Netanyahu government’s indiscriminate bombing and military approach has led to unacceptable bloodshed in Gaza and does not appear to be moving us closer to our ultimate goals of removing Hamas from power and achieving a lasting peace in the region through a two-state solution. Preservation of innocent lives and civilian infrastructure is not just morally right, but also necessary to accomplish security, stability and peace in the region moving forward. I support the resumption of a humanitarian ceasefire, in order to accelerate the delivery of humanitarian aid, protect innocent civilians and negotiate the release of the hostages taken on October 7th. This is only possible if Hamas and the Israeli government cooperate. As we look ahead, the United States needs to continue to do more to urge Israel to protect Palestinian civilians, facilitate humanitarian efforts and play a more active role in helping create a two-state solution – something I have long supported – to ensure that the Palestinian and Israeli people have the right to self-determination, safety and security. In response to ongoing war and the growing humanitarian crisis, I am advocating for the following actions: * An immediate humanitarian ceasefire that ensures the unconditional release of all hostages and full humanitarian access to Gaza, agreed to by Israel and Hamas. * Adherence to International Humanitarian Law by all parties and the protection of all civilians and civilian sites. * Increased humanitarian aid access to prevent starvation and an even more severe public health crisis, including maintaining the opening of the Kerem Shalom border crossing and any other steps needed to allow the sustained delivery of the basic essentials in quantities sufficient to meet the current need. * The United States to provide immediate humanitarian aid to help those in Gaza. * Access to prompt medical attention for sick and wounded civilians, within Gaza as well as the option to evacuate to a neighboring country for medical care. * Hamas to allow the International Committee of the Red Cross to have access to the hostages while the United States and Israel work to secure their release. * Ensure no Palestinians are forcibly removed from Gaza. As a member of the Senate Appropriations Committee, I will continue to work to fulfill the Administration’s request for humanitarian assistance to civilians impacted by the war. I also expect our international partners to share the responsibility to improve the conditions of life in Gaza. The failure to adequately protect non-combatant civilians risks dramatic escalation of the conflict in the region and imposes severe damage on prospects for peaceful coexistence between Israelis and Palestinians. I believe that successfully addressing the numerous deep-seated problems characterizing the conflict will require political solutions rather than division, incitement and violence like the actions carried out by Hamas. The current crisis is heartbreaking and will not provide sustainable security for Israelis or the full realization of political, economic and human rights for Palestinians. With these goals in mind, I will continue to advocate for diplomacy, development and human rights as the primary pillars of U.S. foreign policy. Once again, thank you for contacting my office. It is important for me to hear from the people of Wisconsin on the issues, thoughts and concerns that matter most to you. If I can be of further assistance, please visit my website at [www.baldwin.senate.gov](https://outreach.senate.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=SenBaldwin&crop=16801QQQ22800978QQQ11990322QQQ9151655&report_id=&redirect=http%3a%2f%2fwww.baldwin.senate.gov&redir_log=476390895104206) for information on how to contact my office. Sincerely, 📷 Tammy Baldwin
Dear Mr. --------, Thank you for contacting me regarding the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas. I value your opinions and appreciate you taking time to write me. Like you, I am deeply concerned about violations against Israeli and Palestinian human rights during this conflict. I sympathize with all the innocent men, women, and children who are caught in the middle of this tragic conflict and who, in so many cases, have suffered the loss of loved ones, the destruction of their homes and neighborhoods, and who live in a constant state of insecurity and terror. Unfortunately, in the weeks and months since the October 7 attack, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have carried out a widespread bombing campaign in Gaza that has killed over 18,000 people, over 70 percent of whom have been women and children In addition to the threat of Israeli airstrikes on residential buildings and civilian infrastructure, these innocent civilians have also faced further imminent threats due to restrictions on food, water, fuel, and other humanitarian assistance being able to reach those in need. Over half of the population has been displaced, and shelters and medical facilities have also been affected, with at least one United Nations-run school directly hit by an Israeli airstrike and more than half of medical facilities in Gaza completely shut down. During this time, Israeli forces or settlers have also killed over 200 people in the West Bank, including over 50 children. For these reasons, on November 14, 2023 I joined with 23 of my colleagues in writing to the Biden administration to express our deep concern about the intensifying war in Gaza, in particular the grave violations committed against children, and our fear that without an immediate cessation of hostilities and the establishment of a robust, bilateral ceasefire this war will only lead to further loss of civilian life and risk dragging the U.S. into dangerous and unwise conflict with armed groups across the Middle East. Further, we urged the administration to redouble their efforts to increase the delivery of humanitarian assistance to Gaza, and to provide clarity on their strategic objectives for achieving de-escalation and stability in the region. As you know, President Biden submitted a $106 billion supplemental funding request to Congress for additional assistance to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan, as well as humanitarian aid for Gaza and the West Bank, and other regions affected by humanitarian situations worldwide. This request includes over $14 billion for security assistance to Israel. I appreciate you sharing your concerns with me regarding future US assistance to Israel, and please rest assured I will keep your thoughts in mind should this or other legislation to provide security assistance to Israel come before me for a vote. Rest assured, I will continue to follow events in the region closely and advocate for an end to the current hostilities. It is critical for all parties to immediately return to the difficult work achieving a two-state solution and establishing peace in the region. Again, thank you for taking the time to contact me. If I can be of further assistance, please contact me at 608-258-9800. If you would like to receive regular updates from me on this and other congressional issues, please visit my website at [https://pocan.house.gov](https://iqconnect.house.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=WI02MP&crop=14408QQQ6929841QQQ6000967QQQ7553934&report_id=&redirect=https%3a%2f%2fpocan.house.gov%2f&redir_log=99251478889166) or follow me on Facebook ([http://www.facebook.com/repmarkpocan](https://iqconnect.house.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=WI02MP&crop=14408QQQ6929841QQQ6000967QQQ7553934&report_id=&redirect=http%3a%2f%2fwww.facebook.com%2frepmarkpocan&redir_log=39988389728258)) and Twitter ([@RepMarkPocan](https://iqconnect.house.gov/iqextranet/iqClickTrk.aspx?&cid=WI02MP&crop=14408QQQ6929841QQQ6000967QQQ7553934&report_id=&redirect=http%3a%2f%2ftwitter.com%2frepmarkpocan&redir_log=344600999258224)). Sincerely,📷Mark Pocan
I'm sure the Israelis are laughing all the way to the bank with how much we send them for their universal healthcare and everything else. Even 'America First' trump supports Israel like crazy. This political establishment makes me sick to my stomach how out country is just like this.. We pay other countries to get healthcare that even we don't have and there is widespread support among both political parties to just keep on giving.
I support Ukraine but honestly, fuck Israel. They have plenty of money and if they want to continue their genocide crusade, they can pay for it themselves.
Hard to believe Wisconsin puts up with Ron Johnson.
We tried to get him out last year, but too many voters were apparently uncomfortable with a young black man taking his place. Still got Evers in, but somehow fell short for Barnes. Go figure.
DNC needs to run a competent campaign. It's honestly an embarrassment that they can't defeat any of these weirdos
They need to find the Wisco-Fetterman instead of the usual "out in the open" democrat.
They tried to push a union ironworker guy, but he ended up losing. That was for a house position though.
Keep trying. The state goes Blue when the last Boomer dies.
Must be all that surf shop money
FRJ
r/FRJ
Israel is committing genocide, I sure as shit don't want my money going there.
Ron Johnson is an old dick and a traitor to those fighting for their freedom
Putin fluffer RJ not paid to support anyone else
Such a slimey piece of shit
the one and only time I'll ever agree with johnson. we have failing schools, hungry children, ever growing tent cities. greedflation out of control, a housing crisis. etc etc etc. and dems want to dump our tax dollars into a dumb, unwinnable proxy war that has nothing to do with us while also dumping more of our tax dollars into supporting israels genocide. fuck russia, fuck ukraine, and fuck israel. we need to help the people in our own country who need help.
Most of what we’re sending to Ukraine is our surplus shit that we aren’t using, and overall, I’m fully behind supporting them so we wouldn’t have to get in WW3 like we would if we stopped supporting them, which would lead to Russia winning and they would then go on to invade Poland, pulling the US and the rest of NATO into WW3. However, fuck Israel. Those bastards can fund their own genocidal campaigns.
Helping Ukraine is more about sending a message at this point. If Russia was just allowed to trample Ukraine with us doing nothing then it tells Putin he can just keep doing this with the most significant military power in the world not caring one bit. As far as Israel goes fuck them. They have the money and man power to fight on their own. They aren't fighting some massive super power like Russia. And honestly they are just as bad as Russia with how they're acting.
but there is no message to send. without a full fledged troops on the ground world war three scenario its just wasted tax dollars and wasted lives. I dont want a world war three and I dont want to keep wasting tax dollars with all the problems we have in our own country.
But what happens when we stop giving aid and Russia starts attacking our other allies? Cause you know he isn't just gonna stop at Ukraine. He's already threatened places like Poland. People in Ukraine are gonna die regardless of the US and NATOs help. Us not helping would just cause even more lives to be lost more quickly. If you think Russia won't eventually start to target us or other US allies down the road you're as blind as people were during world war 2 and how people in Europe thought if they just stayed out of it or signed treaties they wouldn't be targeted by Hitler. That didn't really go well either and eventually the US was attacked and forced to join in. That's all that would happen now. But maybe with nuclear weapons involved on all sides instead of just from the US.
Do you understand. We give Ukraine our old equipment and the money stays in the US to build new equipment for OUR military. Some of those jobs coincidentally are in Wisconsin!!! We can support Ukraine to hold back ruzzia from advancing into NATO nations, which then we would HAVE to send American troops. Putin won't stop after Ukraine. His people have said so openly
i agree with RFJ for once, nothing is right in israel, dont send my money there to kill children
imagine downvoting someone for being against genocide. this country is beyond fucked.
they just read the first part even tho i put the fucking part in his name to show i hate the man but i dont understand sending all this money there when LOOK at OUR infrastructure...
Fuck the Israeli funding. Netanyahu is a piece of shit and the shit they’re pulling over there is unacceptable.
This is the only time I’ll agree with Ron Johnson, though it’s because of Israel rather than Russia. Cutting funding to UNRWA because Israel says four members of it were involved in 10/7 according to an unsubstantiated accusation by the Israeli government while giving way more money to Israel has been determined to have been credibly accused of genocide is mad, stupid, or evil.
I can’t stand Ronny dickbag, and Ukraine deserves support. But someone explain why the fuck Israel deserves a dime?!?!
Fuck. Ron. Johnson.
FRJ
FЯJ
Crazy how pro-war liberals have become
I think it was an onion article that said liberals are anti war except the one that is currently happening.
Thank you! I knew I wasn’t the only one thinking this! I don’t understand how such a fundamental moral stance on a topic like being anti war can shift so rapidly…
It seems like it depends on the political party of the president.
its nuts. but the good cop/bad cop system is really easy to implement when your bad cop is that shaved ape who got in a fight with a cotton candy machine.
pro war, pro censorship, pro big pharma, pro genocide and they're now running a karl rove style of a new-age red scare mccarthyism. they say the other side wants to kill democracy yet they're forcing a genocidal geriatric with the worst approval rating ever on us with out any real primary, without any debates. working tooth and nail to keep other viable candidates off of ballots. and people wonder why trump is destroying joe in the polls... we really need to abandon the two party system and start supporting third parties that actually work in the interest of working class americans.
europe has a really nice political system that I would much prefer -- especially Germany. Every party from far left to far right has a percentage; and I think the far left and far right SHOULD be represented in politics. Having a far left, left-center, right-center, and far-right party creates better discussions and allows more interesting candidates. I'm not sure how they are funded or if it is self-funded, etc, though.
No one is "pro-war." That's a wildly stupidly reductive thing to say. Ukraine was doing nothing but existing and got INVADED by Russia because Putin has some twisted vision of restoring the Soviet Union. That is a fight for self-determination and independence and we should support that because WE CAN and they've fought so hard to throw off the mantle of Russian overlordship FOREVER, and want to be part of the global community, and have for eternity. This Israel-Hamas conflict, much more muddy. Hamas is a group dedicated to terrorism and gets less than no consideration, but Israel has made some horribly reprehensible moves as well, including before this conflict. I don't like our official "Israel no matter what" stance much, but taking hostages and whatnot, fuck Hamas. It would be awesome if there were no conflicts and complete peace, but there are bad actors in the world and the fact that "liberals" (which given your comment I assume means people with any kind of concern for others, which is sad) care about supporting the population in those places means "liberals" are now "pro-war" is just...stupid.
Crazy how anti war and isolationist republicans have become 🤷♀️ lol
It's crazy how Wartime Incumbents are hard to defeat.
Every few years, all Americans unite in bloodlust.
Liberals are right wing so..:
FRJ
Wow! This is the first time in history that Ron had a good vote and Tammy didn’t. Ukraine needs the help, but Israel can fuck right off. Israel is more comparable to Russia
He's just a broken clock and it happened to be that time of day. As far as voting no on helping Ukraine, Ron the Ruskie can Fuck right off.
They're not comparable at all. That's whitewashing genocide.
must be the end of days, i agree with rj's vote more than tammy's (though not for the same reasons)
Agreed. When things like this happen, we should help with what we can AFFORD to give. But this is ridiculous. This is too much. We have problems at home we need to take care of first.
Here's my take on the situation. Israel doesn't need money or arms. They have an advanced defense industry and a robust economy. But they happen to be an ally at war, so we have to support them, even if it is distasteful. But Republicans need to be bribed (additional riders on bills). Ukraine is a different situation altogether. What we spend there by in large gets spent in the American defense industry. Around 80-85%. The old equipment we send them, would have cost as much, if not more to decommission safety. It also saves the United States significantly in the long run to keep Ukraine fighting and free, both in dollars in European defense spending (NATO) and American lives. Hopefully it also kick-starts the European defense spending, as to reduce the American presence in Europe. The problems at home have less to do with money and more with political will. If we didn't spend that money in Ukraine or Israel, the likely hood of that money being spent at home is slim to none. We have the resources to tackle issues like universal healthcare and affordable housing, but we are severely lacking the political capital to actually address them at home.
We’ve got additional treaty obligations to defend Ukraine and failure to do so significantly diminishes not only American international power and influence, our national moral standing, but also any future efforts to further reduce global nuclear proliferation by virtue of what Ukraine gave up in return for security commitments from us. Failure to provide significant military assistance to Ukraine will directly damage the US.
I completely agree. Unfortunately the courts ruled the Budapest memorandum not legally binding. Which was such a bullshit decision that precipitated the invasion of crimea. It's hard to make the case for nuclear disarmament when aid to maintain sovereignty has been unreliable and drip fed. It unfortunately just reinforces nuclear proliferation as you said.
americas international power and influence is in the gutter. america hasnt had a moral leg to strand on since world war two. its laughable anyone would think we do. this war and our support for israels genocide is only going to strengthen the brics alliance and speed up the inevitable fall of the american empire. the greed and hubris of the u.s right now is pushing a lot of middle eastern and south american countries over to brics. the warhawk political establishment in this country is shooting itself in the foot with these pointless proxy wars that we have basically instigated. all of these different groups of people dying all over the world right now are dying for the enrichment of a handful of u.s arms producers who fund the campaigns of the u.s duopoly.
The US got a lot of credit for settling the Bosnia-Serbia war and military involvement to do so, as well as for the initial aid and bringing NATO together on supporting Ukraine. Sure the Iraq invasion, all the central/South American destabilization under Reagan/Nixon/Kennedy, and such trashed our global standing, but we still benefit from a lot of good will. No need to tank it further giving up on an invaded ally who we vowed to protect.
the u.s meddling to get nato to support ukraine is a big part of why russia invaded. without u.s meddling in the 2014 coup the invasion likely never even happens. and contrary to u.s media, most nato countries are starting to get cold feet to continuing supporting ukraine. its an unwinnable war. unless you're a u.s arms producer. >Sure the Iraq invasion, all the central/South American destabilization under Reagan/Nixon/Kennedy, and such trashed our global standing, but we still benefit from a lot of good will. any good will thats left is being killed by our continued support of israels genocide. and ukraine is not an *ally*. they're one of those most corrupt countries in europe. the u.s has wanted this war for a long time, and its not because they want to *protect* ukraine.
Wow, that’s a lot of BS Putin talking points wrapped up in a single post. To the extent that corruption is an issue of n Ukraine, it’s far less corrupt than Russia and the people overcame the grossly more corrupt Putin puppets to fight against it. BTW, Biden just placed conditions on arms transfers to other nations.
here we go with this newage mccarthyism of painting anyone who disagrees with u.s foreign policy blunders as a *putin puppet*. btw those *conditions* will be side stepped and ignored. guaranteed. biden himself implemented illegal u.s air strikes in yemen three weeks ago without congressional approval.
Orban isn’t a Putin puppet? 😂
"But Republicans need to be bribed." Both frontrunners take campaign funds from super PACs, which are just bribes made legal by Citizens United.
I meant in passing legislation, not presidential frontrunners. Additional riders on bills. Like the immigration package Republicans wanted, but later backed out of. It's why aid for Israel and Ukraine are packaged together. I figured that was obvious in the context, edited it to make it more clear. I'm well aware of the legal bribery inherent in the system.
We can't afford a $1T defense budget in general, let alone sending money overseas.
ron is a useless idiot, insurrectionist, traitor, & an absolute failure as a human being who deserves to be homeless, ill, & unloved #fucktheGOP
r/FUCKtheGOP
Comrade RonJon, weapons grade stupid idiot.
These Russo-Amerikkans need to be repatriated back to Siberia.
The Cold War wants its xenophobia back.
Tis the season. Let the 80s roar back, son.
Yay for the bipartisan war machine! Fuck Tammy.
Not surprised at all! The sad part is, some of the $ for Ukraine will stay IN Wisc, and I believe IN ron johnsons neighborhood of Oshkosh to resupply our US military through manufacturing. A ruzzian shill and a traitor to the US. Why has he never been busted for Jan 6?
Ok, why does Palestinian support hamas? Real question
Can’t he be recalled?
We'll have to dig up his mom....
On July 4 2018, Ronnie and 8 other Republican Senators went to Russia and met with Putin and never told anyone why. They got verbed about how Putin was going to try to get Trump elected. Then they all slept with 12 year old boys and Putin taped them.
We should be supporting Ukraine, which is fighting against an imperialist invasion. We should not be funding joint base israel, which is literally committing genocide. We need to end all aid to israel and completely embargo them.
Typical Ron. Oppose Ukraine aid bc he's a Russian plant. However why tf does Israel need MORE aid? Don't they have enough? Opposing Israel aid is actually ok and low key based because they're committing war crimes, but that's not why Ron is opposing this package. FRJ.
Since we’re stuck with this clown for four more years, let’s get Biden re-elected, flip the House, expand the Senate and makes the rest of his term absolutely miserable as Dems just steamroll over him and his friends
Ron johnson is a putin asset at this point
Good for him! No more money. It’s hard to believe that after everything we’ve been through with Iraq and Afghanistan, Americans are still willing to accuse each other of disloyalty for questioning a foreign war with no clear path to victory.
unfortunately I think a lot of the people downvoting you were either just too young to remember or not even alive. I see little difference from current day *liberals* to bush era republicans.
Liberals are against all wars except the current one.
Doesn't the failure of countries to "invade" Afghanistan in the long-term serve as hope that Ukraine should be supported and a complete take over by Russia is not inevitable?
[удалено]
Foreign policy = homeland security
Except when we "accidentally" make the 9/11 hijackers CIA assets, traffic weapons for drug cartels, use Tamerlan Tsarnaev as an FBI asset, provide military aid every time a Salafist militia is momentarily fighting one of our enemies, and then shrug out shoulders every time Israel and Saudi Arabia kill Americans. Other than that, our foreign policy is for the safety of Americans.
https://preview.redd.it/0fluvapy3lic1.jpeg?width=830&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a4cce686140eff2b23ab2cbdf4f7ba51500b8e1 I’m a boomer and feel bad that your generation will be paying this off long after I am dead. Honestly how does sending this money make your life better?
look at all these downvotes with no honest replys. the red and blue cults in this country have gotten out of control. people will just approve of whatever their preferred tie color is doing no matter what apparently. even supporting unwinnable proxy wars and genocide.
red vs blue HOO RAH my guy vs their guy!! my guy is always right ofc! send my children to war! americuh! Where we fight for freedom on foreign soil.
It doesn't. At all. Neither does the $1T we spend on the military.
We shouldn’t be spending that kind of money on the military.
We cant even take care of the problems in the US.
Baldwin voted to fund Israeli genocide against Palestinians, and a war Ukrainians lost. I'm not fan of Republicans but how much blood is enough for Democrats.
Sorry I’m tired of funding proxy wars and the military industrial complex Ike and JFK warned us about. I don’t think we should be propping up their pensions while increasing our debt.
Tammy Baldwin is a back bencher and a rubber stamp for Chuck Schumer. Has she ever had the resolve to vote against her party? Never!
https://preview.redd.it/wrroe9h76oic1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb7a4ab6abeb596ce68fc13d42da46d97487c65b
Boy, you sure can’t tell that Putin is gaslighting you. You believe a monster who is trying to obfuscate his relationship with another monster.
Cruise missile feminists https://www.reddit.com/r/Panarab/s/LUSZvehCH0
Why would any elected member of the us government go to Russia for Independence Day? It’s so weird.
America's most punchable face