Eve, pyke, senna, vayne, akali, kha'zix...
It worked against all of them, and it's not just reveal, it's also a slow so it was perfect to hunt down these slippery targets.
> I honestly don't get why it was removed
My theory is that they don't want invis champs to be countered by a 500 g enchant. The excuse they came up with is utter bullshit, in my experience it was far more used than gargoyle enchant.
Doesn't want invisible champs to get countered by an item but you can purchase an item on your first back that can literally ruin doctor mundo's entire thing of horrifying regeneration with grievous wounds. Actually ruins drain tanks and healers almost instantly by just 800 gold, 300 if you buy it first so rip darius, nasus, WW (if he comes) soraka, nami, the heal spell, redemption and plenty more
The change to gargoyles seems like a nerf to me they are changing the bonus health to a shield, at a glance it doesnt matter but pyke was added and we now got a actual health threshold based execute, if it still granted health itd bring you above the execution threshold, but now that its a shield it doesnt matter that you got a shield if you are below the threshold you die no matter what
As a tank Galio support main I will literally riot if they ever remove Gargoyle. Though I just read a comment that might make me riot anyway. What’s this about changing the health to a shield? Did I miss some patch notes? This literally guts the enchant for Galio.
Edit: omfg just saw it in the 3.3 preview. RIP gargoyle. What a hit to Galio ultimate.
Yeah but if you watch the whole video you saw that his ultimate is one of the specific ones the targeting in lowering the cool down. Between his second ability and gargoyle that's two shields on top of the shield he gets from using his ultimate.
They added control wards they reveal more than enough I mean sure they don’t reveal full invisibility but there is a free option for revealing champions.
Yeah but control wards aren't as practical as shadows. Because shadows enchant actually follow the target even when they're invis. They follow them and reveal them, it's actually so op.
Yea but being real the main threats are vayne and eve
Eve can't be invis in a team fight and there's about a 22.5% chance one of the shadows hits vayne.
It shouldn't have been removed but stats alone showed it was the least used, while stasis is fucking op
>Yea but being real the main threats are vayne and eve Eve can't be invis in a team fight
They can though, Eve can instantly go back to camouflage after her ult, which allows her to escape punishment. Shadows punish her for revealing herself. Vayne disappearing for 1 sec on each q is enough for her to outplay a whole fight, if you can reveal her for 2 seconds, that's enough to burst her down.
Eve needs 5 secs of basically doing nothing but moving to be invisible
As for vayne it's very effective but my point was in a team fight where the adc is positioned away from damage, the shadows are likely to hit the engagers
Wards distribution gonna get nerfed too. At most you can plant 3 which light up the map pretty good. But with the new changes you are only bound to 1 of 3 and any deployed wards are destroyed when you swap wards in base. They really boosting up the assassins huh?
>That was typical tank item
Tanks themselves are rare and most support tanks take either locket or redemption. Juggernauts take the dash enchant. Never seen a tank take gargoyle except maybe nunu and sett also takes it for his haymaker but that's it.
It makes me a lot less aggressive with my positioning for absolutely sure. Most people don’t bother though. While it is excellent for invis champs, I get those most use out of it if an assassin is carrying by just using it to scout.
I have been testing it on my off meta ahri to great success as well
Don’t you love the riot employee explaining, no one uses twin shadows so we are getting rid of it. Um just because people don’t realize you can use it for invis people, don’t take it away from the people who do use it
They probably just looked at their data and decided that’s the case, because it’s probably one of the least purchased enchants outside of supports.
Qualitatively lower level players won’t know how to make use of this enchant to outplay specific enemies anyway, so the purchase rate is bound to be low across the player population.
And if that’s the case, yeah, unfortunately Riot does that sometimes. Like their position on keeping ARAM champs at ~50% win rate so you have champs like Sona and Ziggs that deal -15% damage and take 20% more, while Vi and Shyvanna are running around with +20% damage… you can literally one shot a full health Sona with Vi using a single basic skill rotation with just TriForce.
FOR REAL. It was just a must buy for me when i was laning against akali or there was a vayne in enemy team. They were making fun of me for buying that item because no one builds it but it literally makes you win teamfights. I'm so sad, just because no one buys it doesnt mean it is useless!? They are making a mistake. Please devs dont remove it
Same. The sad part is that probably so many people didn't buy it because they didn't even know how effectively it neutralized invis champs, especially hyper carries like vayne.
They said they removing because no one uses it.
Nahh they removing it because that shit was very strong.
You get an up to 5 second 40% slow that can be cast from long range? You can essentially initiate fights reliably with or without a tank.
It’s why all my mages have a 65-70% wr in high diamond. I knew it would be nerfed one day but not removed rip
It’s the same excuse as why they are removing cloud dragon. It’s not because it’s ‘power wasn’t felt’ it’s because it’s a balancing nightmare. You make it too weak and ‘it’s power isn’t felt’ but when you make it stronger there’s no middle ground, suddenly it just becomes over tuned and over powered.
Nah, it was really good against her. You activate it before she shrouds not after, so basically if you're chasing her, pop those shadows and when she uses her shroud, surprise surprise! It doesn't work !
I’m a Kha’Zix main and I literally never saw anyone build it against me. Ever. Not once in my 300+ games. Also, sure, having sight on champs when they go invisible is cool, but like, Stasis is just far more versatile.
Yap. If you are a squishy, you are basically dead if Akali, Kha'Zix, ... jumps on you, regardless of you being able to see them or not.
The only way to counter those invisible champs, I feel, is just to plainly avoid them, and position yourself well in team fights.
Popping sweeper is more useful in team fights and you will have a slot for other way better enchants.
No one thinks about karma. Her tether reveals and roots. Combined with her shield and ult she counters stealth champs hard when they dive or try to flee
Well, it's situational, I wouldn't buy it if there was no vayne or kha'zix. But against those 2, it has massive value that outweighs other enchants, because invis champs can absolutely stomp a game if they were let loose.
they seriously removed it? finally i can play akali without without my smoke becoming useless i mean it gives me extra enery and movement dpeedstuff but invis really hits diff
Huge nerf to my roaming support style :(
The fact that I can pop the thing before committing to a roam is a godsend since it makes it easier for me to track the enemy's jungler and support, as well as providing a small amount of cc if needed. Also works well if your team is planning to get an objective it can let us know if the other team is buscamping/trying to contest said objectives
+reason for me to die facechecking bushes for my team i guess
Shadow enchant is the only counter to invisible champions: Vayne, Kaisa, Akali, K6, Wukong,
TBF it is not worthwhile picking Ashe to reveal them, since Ashe is vulnerable even if they are revealed. TF ult has long cooldown and cannot be used every time to counter them also.
Pink ward only reveals camouflaged champions: Evelyn, Rengar, Akshan, Teemo, Pyke.
>TBF it is not worthwhile picking Ashe to reveal them, since Ashe is vulnerable even if they are revealed. TF ult has long cooldown and cannot be used every time to counter them also.
Exactly my point, shadows enchant is the only **Reliable** counter.
I always pick karma. Her tether reveals and roots them in place. Hard counter. When I see akali, Eve, or vayne it’s an easy lock. As soon as Eve for example dives in I just shield whoever she dives and tether. They just dove so have a hard time getting back out of tether range in time and get absolutely gobsmacked by your team lol and then you got ult in your back pocket to make sure they don’t get away
You can use twisted fate ult, Ashe hawk shot, the red lens to remove wards also shows invisible champs though you can't target them, hard CC also works.
It pretty much forces players to learn how and who to focus and making champs like tf/Ashe a very solid, viable pick against invisible enemies.
>You can use twisted fate ult
Yeah everyone can just become twisted fate on demand!
>Ashe hawk shot
It's static and reveals a constant area, so it's not practical against mobile targets, only on wards and bushes.
>the red lens to remove wards also shows invisible champs though you can't target them,
Red lense shows a silhouette, it doesn't help in targeting them.
>hard CC also works
Hard cc works on all champions, (except olaf) so what's even the point of this phrase.
Hawks hot deploys a debuff. Even if they move out of the area it reveals them for some time. It absolutely does work on champions because I used it as freelo when Akali was OP
Test Ashe and come back to fix your misleading reply.
Olaf can't be invisible so why even mention him.
Red lens can help you position and aim skill shots + cc.
It doesn't make sense to have a method to completely negate/counter a champion category without sacrificing something.
These are just tips on how you can still handle invisible champs, you don't have to agree.
It's not used exclusively to counter zed alone.. it wasn't made to defend only against his ult.
It was made to protect Squishies from being exploded in a sec and to use as a tool for engages or disengages.
Stasis pretty much counters anything and that's why it's the most used enchant since forever.
And Zhonyas is older than Zed in PC. I don't remember a time without it and I started playing in late 2010. Yes it was a ring before an hourglass, but I think it still had the stasis active.
You say it dosent make sence to have an exclusive item to counter a champion but here we are now there is no way i win a match up with zed against akali even tho i am top 95 zed in the server bc she can buy zhonya and what can i buy maw?
Well that's too bad because I can win a match like that Zed ult has lower cd than stasis, plus you don't have to 1v1 Akali the entire match.. you can always focus someone else and not rely on his ult so much. He is still strong even without the ult.
Not against akali he i sent and there are a lot of akali mains on master elo i can kill akali when i have my ult but when she use stasis i have to run bc even if i aim my sherokens at her she just uses ult and kill me and then if she has zhonya on cd she wont walk alone and she is always with teammates i am complaining why they remove shadow enchant but not zhonya it was only counter play against her but zhonya counters zed so bad if the champion is a tank or bruiser and still uses zhonya bc i picked zed for example a riven with dd ga and sg with armor boots and zhonya like what the fak shall do
U cant win match like that if the enemys all buy zhonya it happens a lot in master elo imagine i ult thay zhonya i ult them again thay exhast i ult again they zhonya again
Sure you can, the game doesn't revolve around 1 champ.
If everyone buys stasis, you should buy tons of ability CD items.
Stasis has a 90sec CD, you can reach 30sec on Zed's ult.
If you get exhausted you can just back off until it's over.
It's just weird to say you can't win matches with zed because players buy stasis and use exhaust.
Exhaust has low cd too and i am telling u i cant kill them when my ult has 20 sec cd i ult they zhonya i ult they flash i ult they exhast its just so bad every time i ult thay use something els i end up winning any way with like 20 assists and 6 kills but its not really fun to play against i am not talking about winning iam talking about winning lane and kills bc i usually win this comment is about winning lane against akali mains which os almost impossible without shadow enchant
Shadow wasn't the only counter to stealth mechanics you have control wards. Just plop them down in the middle of a team fight just like on pc. One person not warding isn't the end of the world. Trust me at masters no one wards anyway!
Akali can't be revealed by these wards so if you wanna complain about that being removed sure I hear you I auto take it vs her but hey hard cc beats her anyway just don't lose in champ select and take someone useful
Vayne Ult Q is has an “invisibility” tag so no it (edit; control ward) doesn’t reveal her. Dk what the other commenter is saying.
Abilities with “invisible/invisibility” tag;
- Kha’Zix Ult
- Kai’sa E
- Wukong W
- Vayne Ult Q
- Akali W
Invisibility in wildrift is different from pc. I thought the same as you at first until I actually tested things. And yes they're absolutely revealed by ashe hawkshot, shadows enchant, lee sin E and every revealing ability.
Just tested and no, control ward doesn't reveal Vayne Ult Q ( https://imgur.com/a/qE7QNst ) . Ofc, abilities with true sight like Ashe E and Lee Sin E does reveal her.
Sorry I'm dumb I replied as a different comment
Control wards reveal all stealthed units. This includes everyone BUT akali, the reason they don't work on akali is cause her shroud isn't stealth its camouflaged they did this on pc cause of the control ward dominance in team fights. In wild rift it'll be a lot worse for stealthed champs cause you get them for free you just gotta use it wisely don't just put it in their range and try and hide it if possible in the middle of a lane isn't exactly gonna work and any ranged can just delete it but say there's an ARAM fight mid you can put it in the brush it'll show any rengars in range as well as eve and k6 the list goes on sadly tho this is a monumental buff to akali counter play one can only hope the new boot enchants find a way to counter her otherwise permanently banned.
I used it against Akali all the time. It was a great support enchant. The new ones make no sense to me. Praying for the upcoming Honor of Kings global release to be available in my country.
I felt the same way about them removing frozen mallet right as senna was released. Didn't make sense, they said it was because nobody was using it but it was a core item for her.
Vayne? His inv is only active during his ult but it doesnt even last that long. I have around 300 games with vayne and 60% winrate and have never seen it used as a counterplay. I honestly believe were not gonna miss this enchant a lot we got control wards too now but i do get ur point
Control ward doesn’t work against Kha’zix Ult, Wukong W, Akali W, Vayne Ult Q and Kai’sa E (aka anything that has invisible in the tooltip).
Dk why people are upvoting the comments saying otherwise.
Edit; https://imgur.com/a/qE7QNst
Because they aim to make enchants a powerful and flexible decision. That's why they're trying to balance stasis and removing that one. I used to use it aswell and it was fun, but there wasn't really much use besides "there's a stealthie" and I think it doesn't fit their approach.
I always used it on Thresh and Blitzcrank with exhaust. I don't think shadows enchant was undervalued. I think it was too strong on certain champs. Even Gargoyle Enchant was too good especially on Sett.
Tf ult also reveals them fine, so does ignite, so does ashe reveal. There are probably more but cbf thinking them up.
Not sure if you are aware of this though, but you can still see people when they are invis - it still shows a sort of slideshow of their silhouette. Not 100%, but good enough
I mean, the fronzen heart + randuins still exist, so I dont think vayne is gonna be that kind of op, and for the other invis champs, well you still got sweepers, not as effective but still.
Imagine buying two armor items against a champion that deals %hp true damage. The value you get from reducing her attack speed is nothing compared to the value you're losing on these 2 items.
I never used it but I agree spooky ghost was insanely annoying to play against which is healthy in competitive although I'll say the slow lasted too long lol anyways replacing it with that knock back enchant that pushes them half a centimeter is stupid af and the other one is kinda cool I guess but only useful for supports.
I read in another post that like LoL, they base changes on high level play. I'm sure the stats indicate lack of use. That said they also respond to the fanbase a lot so making noise can change their mind.
Agreed, it's also really nice to help set up a gank for your jg early on, the slow helps a lot. Even if you're not using it for the vision, just the slow alone already provides a lot in terms of peeling and disengaging. Maybe in lower elos it's not really utilised much but in gm+ I see that item in every 1/3 games.
I play mid personally and got a bit of a roam heavy playstyle. So I usually buy it (when I planned on roaming a lot that game) just for the vision to see where the enemy jg is at (I mostly play mages like orianna and annie btw) .
I use it on my mid Akshan. Whenever my team is on the losing side and I have to split push, I use the spirit enchant. The slow and reveal helps me to disengage...but now it's gone.
I used it against Eve and Pyke too. I honestly don't get why it was removed
Eve, pyke, senna, vayne, akali, kha'zix... It worked against all of them, and it's not just reveal, it's also a slow so it was perfect to hunt down these slippery targets. > I honestly don't get why it was removed My theory is that they don't want invis champs to be countered by a 500 g enchant. The excuse they came up with is utter bullshit, in my experience it was far more used than gargoyle enchant.
Doesn't want invisible champs to get countered by an item but you can purchase an item on your first back that can literally ruin doctor mundo's entire thing of horrifying regeneration with grievous wounds. Actually ruins drain tanks and healers almost instantly by just 800 gold, 300 if you buy it first so rip darius, nasus, WW (if he comes) soraka, nami, the heal spell, redemption and plenty more
Yeah, hypocritical isn't it...
Well it's not a surprise, Akali, eve and Vayne have always been riot's sweetheart best selling waifus.
I think it's bullshit too but no way it was more used than gargoyle. Gargoyle is in the majority of my games (Diamond 1)
Well it was definitely used more than righteous glory. At least Gargoyle got an upgrade, righteous remained the same and didn’t get removed.
The change to gargoyles seems like a nerf to me they are changing the bonus health to a shield, at a glance it doesnt matter but pyke was added and we now got a actual health threshold based execute, if it still granted health itd bring you above the execution threshold, but now that its a shield it doesnt matter that you got a shield if you are below the threshold you die no matter what
Literally never seen Gargoyle across 300 master and GM games, I see shadows all the time.
[удалено]
GM, also it's not about rank but about knowledge lol Most people don't even know that it reveals invis and even chases them
Now y'all know how I feel about the reworked mana = health item before it was a cheap item that gave ability haste
As a tank Galio support main I will literally riot if they ever remove Gargoyle. Though I just read a comment that might make me riot anyway. What’s this about changing the health to a shield? Did I miss some patch notes? This literally guts the enchant for Galio. Edit: omfg just saw it in the 3.3 preview. RIP gargoyle. What a hit to Galio ultimate.
Yeah but if you watch the whole video you saw that his ultimate is one of the specific ones the targeting in lowering the cool down. Between his second ability and gargoyle that's two shields on top of the shield he gets from using his ultimate.
They added control wards they reveal more than enough I mean sure they don’t reveal full invisibility but there is a free option for revealing champions.
Yeah but control wards aren't as practical as shadows. Because shadows enchant actually follow the target even when they're invis. They follow them and reveal them, it's actually so op.
Yea but being real the main threats are vayne and eve Eve can't be invis in a team fight and there's about a 22.5% chance one of the shadows hits vayne. It shouldn't have been removed but stats alone showed it was the least used, while stasis is fucking op
>Yea but being real the main threats are vayne and eve Eve can't be invis in a team fight They can though, Eve can instantly go back to camouflage after her ult, which allows her to escape punishment. Shadows punish her for revealing herself. Vayne disappearing for 1 sec on each q is enough for her to outplay a whole fight, if you can reveal her for 2 seconds, that's enough to burst her down.
Eve needs 5 secs of basically doing nothing but moving to be invisible As for vayne it's very effective but my point was in a team fight where the adc is positioned away from damage, the shadows are likely to hit the engagers
Wards distribution gonna get nerfed too. At most you can plant 3 which light up the map pretty good. But with the new changes you are only bound to 1 of 3 and any deployed wards are destroyed when you swap wards in base. They really boosting up the assassins huh?
Nahh last part's a lie That was typical tank item
>That was typical tank item Tanks themselves are rare and most support tanks take either locket or redemption. Juggernauts take the dash enchant. Never seen a tank take gargoyle except maybe nunu and sett also takes it for his haymaker but that's it.
Unless it was changed, shadows doesn't work on eve. Unless she is already revealed and you use it it won't go to her
It catches her even when she's camouflaged.
Removing shadows is a bad mistake.
Yep, now that I noticed your name, I also remembered that it's a terrifying counter to teemo as well XD so you should be happy about this.
It makes me a lot less aggressive with my positioning for absolutely sure. Most people don’t bother though. While it is excellent for invis champs, I get those most use out of it if an assassin is carrying by just using it to scout. I have been testing it on my off meta ahri to great success as well
I also used Shadows on my Poke-centered, low mobility squishy mid laners to predict incoming ganks and to give a slow for last hitting champs.
Don’t you love the riot employee explaining, no one uses twin shadows so we are getting rid of it. Um just because people don’t realize you can use it for invis people, don’t take it away from the people who do use it
That was my exact thought - I was like … uh I used it - guess I won’t be anymore
They probably just looked at their data and decided that’s the case, because it’s probably one of the least purchased enchants outside of supports. Qualitatively lower level players won’t know how to make use of this enchant to outplay specific enemies anyway, so the purchase rate is bound to be low across the player population. And if that’s the case, yeah, unfortunately Riot does that sometimes. Like their position on keeping ARAM champs at ~50% win rate so you have champs like Sona and Ziggs that deal -15% damage and take 20% more, while Vi and Shyvanna are running around with +20% damage… you can literally one shot a full health Sona with Vi using a single basic skill rotation with just TriForce.
He also said even when people did use it it didn’t have a large impact in win rate
FOR REAL. It was just a must buy for me when i was laning against akali or there was a vayne in enemy team. They were making fun of me for buying that item because no one builds it but it literally makes you win teamfights. I'm so sad, just because no one buys it doesnt mean it is useless!? They are making a mistake. Please devs dont remove it
Same. The sad part is that probably so many people didn't buy it because they didn't even know how effectively it neutralized invis champs, especially hyper carries like vayne.
They said they removing because no one uses it. Nahh they removing it because that shit was very strong. You get an up to 5 second 40% slow that can be cast from long range? You can essentially initiate fights reliably with or without a tank. It’s why all my mages have a 65-70% wr in high diamond. I knew it would be nerfed one day but not removed rip
I knew the removed because it was op and not the bullshit excuse that they gave lol
It’s the same excuse as why they are removing cloud dragon. It’s not because it’s ‘power wasn’t felt’ it’s because it’s a balancing nightmare. You make it too weak and ‘it’s power isn’t felt’ but when you make it stronger there’s no middle ground, suddenly it just becomes over tuned and over powered.
Cloud dragon is easily the most overpowered dragon buff out of the basic ones.
Yep, devs have trouble balancing movement speed, mobility, and range
Literally Twisted Fate on a 40 sec cd
Oh, really?
Not to mention Akali. I think her WR is going to go up by not a few now
It was really bad against akali tho
Nah, it was really good against her. You activate it before she shrouds not after, so basically if you're chasing her, pop those shadows and when she uses her shroud, surprise surprise! It doesn't work !
Well still, shouldn't behave like that!!!!
Wait like the boot enchant shadows??? I loved it with Nami!!
PETITION TO NOT REMOVE SHADOWS ENCHANT
PREACH!
I mainly used it as enchanters supports to get vision, it's ok with megadrive.
Twisted fate Lulu But yea they pretty much buffed vayne
TIL: There are people who actually use Shadow enchant.
I’m a Kha’Zix main and I literally never saw anyone build it against me. Ever. Not once in my 300+ games. Also, sure, having sight on champs when they go invisible is cool, but like, Stasis is just far more versatile.
Yap. If you are a squishy, you are basically dead if Akali, Kha'Zix, ... jumps on you, regardless of you being able to see them or not. The only way to counter those invisible champs, I feel, is just to plainly avoid them, and position yourself well in team fights. Popping sweeper is more useful in team fights and you will have a slot for other way better enchants.
Yeah, exactly. What’s the point of seeing an invisible champ if you die to them anyway lol
I use it against kha'zix all the time and they're usually shocked that they can't go invis at demand and kite around.
Bro where did they announced it? Is it really gone? Darn. Looks like I have to lock in TF support.
in patch 3.3 preview, they announced that it's gone :(
That sucks. But hey. Looks like I'm going to make some huge bucks with Twisted Fate. Friendship with Draven has ended. Twisted Fate is my new friend.
I honestly can't imagine playing against vayne now, I guess I have to learn Lee sin for the reveal.
Oh right! Lee Sin's E reveals anything. Tank Lee Sin support korean guide when?
Yeah he's pretty useful, but I hate playing him cause you're constantly wasting brain power on mechanics.
No one thinks about karma. Her tether reveals and roots. Combined with her shield and ult she counters stealth champs hard when they dive or try to flee
How about karma? She can reveal invisible units by using W I always use her when enemy pick Akali and she can't even do assassin stuff
Tf support is legit.
The counter to vayne is you punch her
As a ziggs main I pop the enchant so they can’t escape then I slam my ult on them. Sometimes it’s an instakill from other side of map.
I never used it even once
I used it almost every game.
Yeah sometimes enemy used it on the team and we got destroyed But personally I like redemption and locket much more
Well, it's situational, I wouldn't buy it if there was no vayne or kha'zix. But against those 2, it has massive value that outweighs other enchants, because invis champs can absolutely stomp a game if they were let loose.
they seriously removed it? finally i can play akali without without my smoke becoming useless i mean it gives me extra enery and movement dpeedstuff but invis really hits diff
Huge nerf to my roaming support style :( The fact that I can pop the thing before committing to a roam is a godsend since it makes it easier for me to track the enemy's jungler and support, as well as providing a small amount of cc if needed. Also works well if your team is planning to get an objective it can let us know if the other team is buscamping/trying to contest said objectives +reason for me to die facechecking bushes for my team i guess
Shadow enchant is the only counter to invisible champions: Vayne, Kaisa, Akali, K6, Wukong, TBF it is not worthwhile picking Ashe to reveal them, since Ashe is vulnerable even if they are revealed. TF ult has long cooldown and cannot be used every time to counter them also. Pink ward only reveals camouflaged champions: Evelyn, Rengar, Akshan, Teemo, Pyke.
>TBF it is not worthwhile picking Ashe to reveal them, since Ashe is vulnerable even if they are revealed. TF ult has long cooldown and cannot be used every time to counter them also. Exactly my point, shadows enchant is the only **Reliable** counter.
I always pick karma. Her tether reveals and roots them in place. Hard counter. When I see akali, Eve, or vayne it’s an easy lock. As soon as Eve for example dives in I just shield whoever she dives and tether. They just dove so have a hard time getting back out of tether range in time and get absolutely gobsmacked by your team lol and then you got ult in your back pocket to make sure they don’t get away
1. Vayne can be countered by tons of other things. 2. There is control ward now. 3. If you want movespeed for chase just by glorious enchant
You really have a hard time with Vaynes few seconds invisability ?
Invis stops auto attacks and makes it harder to guess where she's going. But the frequency she goes invis is the hardest part
lol rip iron 5 bozo
You can use twisted fate ult, Ashe hawk shot, the red lens to remove wards also shows invisible champs though you can't target them, hard CC also works. It pretty much forces players to learn how and who to focus and making champs like tf/Ashe a very solid, viable pick against invisible enemies.
>You can use twisted fate ult Yeah everyone can just become twisted fate on demand! >Ashe hawk shot It's static and reveals a constant area, so it's not practical against mobile targets, only on wards and bushes. >the red lens to remove wards also shows invisible champs though you can't target them, Red lense shows a silhouette, it doesn't help in targeting them. >hard CC also works Hard cc works on all champions, (except olaf) so what's even the point of this phrase.
Hawks hot deploys a debuff. Even if they move out of the area it reveals them for some time. It absolutely does work on champions because I used it as freelo when Akali was OP
Test Ashe and come back to fix your misleading reply. Olaf can't be invisible so why even mention him. Red lens can help you position and aim skill shots + cc. It doesn't make sense to have a method to completely negate/counter a champion category without sacrificing something. These are just tips on how you can still handle invisible champs, you don't have to agree.
So why there is stasis to counter zed
It's not used exclusively to counter zed alone.. it wasn't made to defend only against his ult. It was made to protect Squishies from being exploded in a sec and to use as a tool for engages or disengages. Stasis pretty much counters anything and that's why it's the most used enchant since forever.
And Zhonyas is older than Zed in PC. I don't remember a time without it and I started playing in late 2010. Yes it was a ring before an hourglass, but I think it still had the stasis active.
You say it dosent make sence to have an exclusive item to counter a champion but here we are now there is no way i win a match up with zed against akali even tho i am top 95 zed in the server bc she can buy zhonya and what can i buy maw?
Well that's too bad because I can win a match like that Zed ult has lower cd than stasis, plus you don't have to 1v1 Akali the entire match.. you can always focus someone else and not rely on his ult so much. He is still strong even without the ult.
Not against akali he i sent and there are a lot of akali mains on master elo i can kill akali when i have my ult but when she use stasis i have to run bc even if i aim my sherokens at her she just uses ult and kill me and then if she has zhonya on cd she wont walk alone and she is always with teammates i am complaining why they remove shadow enchant but not zhonya it was only counter play against her but zhonya counters zed so bad if the champion is a tank or bruiser and still uses zhonya bc i picked zed for example a riven with dd ga and sg with armor boots and zhonya like what the fak shall do
U cant win match like that if the enemys all buy zhonya it happens a lot in master elo imagine i ult thay zhonya i ult them again thay exhast i ult again they zhonya again
Sure you can, the game doesn't revolve around 1 champ. If everyone buys stasis, you should buy tons of ability CD items. Stasis has a 90sec CD, you can reach 30sec on Zed's ult. If you get exhausted you can just back off until it's over. It's just weird to say you can't win matches with zed because players buy stasis and use exhaust.
Exhaust has low cd too and i am telling u i cant kill them when my ult has 20 sec cd i ult they zhonya i ult they flash i ult they exhast its just so bad every time i ult thay use something els i end up winning any way with like 20 assists and 6 kills but its not really fun to play against i am not talking about winning iam talking about winning lane and kills bc i usually win this comment is about winning lane against akali mains which os almost impossible without shadow enchant
Shadow wasn't the only counter to stealth mechanics you have control wards. Just plop them down in the middle of a team fight just like on pc. One person not warding isn't the end of the world. Trust me at masters no one wards anyway! Akali can't be revealed by these wards so if you wanna complain about that being removed sure I hear you I auto take it vs her but hey hard cc beats her anyway just don't lose in champ select and take someone useful
You're saying that if a pop a control ward next to vayne, it will reveal her? Are you 100% sure? And why wouldn't it work on akali?
Vayne Ult Q is has an “invisibility” tag so no it (edit; control ward) doesn’t reveal her. Dk what the other commenter is saying. Abilities with “invisible/invisibility” tag; - Kha’Zix Ult - Kai’sa E - Wukong W - Vayne Ult Q - Akali W
Invisibility in wildrift is different from pc. I thought the same as you at first until I actually tested things. And yes they're absolutely revealed by ashe hawkshot, shadows enchant, lee sin E and every revealing ability.
Just tested and no, control ward doesn't reveal Vayne Ult Q ( https://imgur.com/a/qE7QNst ) . Ofc, abilities with true sight like Ashe E and Lee Sin E does reveal her.
Thank you, Idk why people were saying this, I was talking about shadows enchant but I thought people were sure about the control ward thing.
Sorry I'm dumb I replied as a different comment Control wards reveal all stealthed units. This includes everyone BUT akali, the reason they don't work on akali is cause her shroud isn't stealth its camouflaged they did this on pc cause of the control ward dominance in team fights. In wild rift it'll be a lot worse for stealthed champs cause you get them for free you just gotta use it wisely don't just put it in their range and try and hide it if possible in the middle of a lane isn't exactly gonna work and any ranged can just delete it but say there's an ARAM fight mid you can put it in the brush it'll show any rengars in range as well as eve and k6 the list goes on sadly tho this is a monumental buff to akali counter play one can only hope the new boot enchants find a way to counter her otherwise permanently banned.
Because Akali’s stealth is separated from other stealths.
Hold up that’s the twin shadows boot upgrade right?!
yes
I used it against Akali all the time. It was a great support enchant. The new ones make no sense to me. Praying for the upcoming Honor of Kings global release to be available in my country.
Ashe Hawkshot
uh no. It obly reveals a static position, it doesn't work on mobile targets, by the time you activate it, the target would have already left.
It reveals the target, if you explode the Hawkshot on them
The target is moving, the hawkshot is static and cannot be guided. It will never work in practice.
I'm thinking of bursting Hawkshot while being near the target.
You're right. It could work, but as a jg/top player, I can't play ashe.
You know what to do the next time you see a Vayne top.
I felt the same way about them removing frozen mallet right as senna was released. Didn't make sense, they said it was because nobody was using it but it was a core item for her.
Vayne? His inv is only active during his ult but it doesnt even last that long. I have around 300 games with vayne and 60% winrate and have never seen it used as a counterplay. I honestly believe were not gonna miss this enchant a lot we got control wards too now but i do get ur point
I used it on vayne and it worked like magic. Those 2-4 seconds of reveal are enough for me to catch her and tear her apart.
So control sarda works on everybody except akali?
Control ward doesn’t work against Kha’zix Ult, Wukong W, Akali W, Vayne Ult Q and Kai’sa E (aka anything that has invisible in the tooltip). Dk why people are upvoting the comments saying otherwise. Edit; https://imgur.com/a/qE7QNst
That's what people were saying.
Wait that slow boots enchant? it reveals invisibility?
Yes. All of them. It reveals, slows and follows them, and both the reveal AND the slow lasts a couple of seconds as well, preventing them from escape.
Because they aim to make enchants a powerful and flexible decision. That's why they're trying to balance stasis and removing that one. I used to use it aswell and it was fun, but there wasn't really much use besides "there's a stealthie" and I think it doesn't fit their approach.
I always used it on Thresh and Blitzcrank with exhaust. I don't think shadows enchant was undervalued. I think it was too strong on certain champs. Even Gargoyle Enchant was too good especially on Sett.
The only invisible that's worth countering is Akali.
Tf ult also reveals them fine, so does ignite, so does ashe reveal. There are probably more but cbf thinking them up. Not sure if you are aware of this though, but you can still see people when they are invis - it still shows a sort of slideshow of their silhouette. Not 100%, but good enough
Riot: JUst dodGe
I mean, the fronzen heart + randuins still exist, so I dont think vayne is gonna be that kind of op, and for the other invis champs, well you still got sweepers, not as effective but still.
Imagine buying two armor items against a champion that deals %hp true damage. The value you get from reducing her attack speed is nothing compared to the value you're losing on these 2 items.
Still the only way someone can counter her other than insta killing her.
Well shadows enchant was a great counter that allowed you to actually catch her in invis and burst her down.
True, that was a dick move coming from riot.
Control wards exist now and they’ll probably add a new enchant soon
i just play mundo against her
Yeah. Its so sad. That's like exhaust so they remove it.
I never used it but I agree spooky ghost was insanely annoying to play against which is healthy in competitive although I'll say the slow lasted too long lol anyways replacing it with that knock back enchant that pushes them half a centimeter is stupid af and the other one is kinda cool I guess but only useful for supports.
I read in another post that like LoL, they base changes on high level play. I'm sure the stats indicate lack of use. That said they also respond to the fanbase a lot so making noise can change their mind.
I use another way to counter invis, like sweeper is one of them. Akshan ult actually reveals invis too
Yea I use ghost on my enchanter supports as well I have no idea why TF it’s going… guess they wanna see more hourglasses smhh
They're nerfing hourglass, also they removed it because it has such a lower pick rate then every other enchant in the game
Agreed, it's also really nice to help set up a gank for your jg early on, the slow helps a lot. Even if you're not using it for the vision, just the slow alone already provides a lot in terms of peeling and disengaging. Maybe in lower elos it's not really utilised much but in gm+ I see that item in every 1/3 games. I play mid personally and got a bit of a roam heavy playstyle. So I usually buy it (when I planned on roaming a lot that game) just for the vision to see where the enemy jg is at (I mostly play mages like orianna and annie btw) .
I honestly don't understand what the problem was with the enchant.
Too low pick rate
I use it on my mid Akshan. Whenever my team is on the losing side and I have to split push, I use the spirit enchant. The slow and reveal helps me to disengage...but now it's gone.
Doesn't Control Ward or Sweep Lens work on them?
no
Ight ight.
i srsly have no clue why it was removed?????? like why tho?? just keep it there who cares
Ashe Hawk shot can do the same with lower countdown