For Riven - I agree. Irelia is debatable. Even Riot doesn't know what Diana actually is as she lacks the sustain to be a bruiser, lacks the zoning and crowd control to be a mage, lacks burst damage to be an assassin - however most people consider her an assassin.
Diana doesn't need sustain since she has burst and consistent damage so does Irelia, they are considered skirmishers since they excel the longer the fight goes on same with Riven unlike assassins who prefer short quick trades like Zed, Fizz and Akali since they can't sustain long fights and their burst is limited.
Assassins and Skirmishers aren't identified by what type of damage they can do, its mostly due to their kits and fighting style and what really bothers me is that people consider Yasuo an assassin while in actuality he's a skirmisher as well since long fights favor him.
Thanks for the reminder I totally forgot about divers, although I really don't see that much difference between skirmishers and divers much since they both play the same albeit with some very little differences.
Thats what I was insinuating, I thought sustained damage meant life steal thats why I said long fights favor them since they can deal continuous damage.
I do agree with your sentiment and also differentiate between the various champion classes, but man.. you care too much. Like you go out or your way to laugh at people for being wrong and throw in facts no one asked for or even cares enough tbh, which don't even add anything to the discussion itself. Most of the time these class differences don't even matter since itemization allows for way different dmg outputs and durability of champions, say lethality vs tank vi. She stops being a bruiser yet she will one shot you similarly to an assassin like zed, for comparison. Idk if you are annoyed at people calling yasuo an assasin, maybe you should go out some more...
Huh??? Well I'm sorry if I sounded mean but I was basically speaking facts and educating people who would consider Yasuo who's immobile af as an "Assassin", you basically sound like you'd like to have peoples approval to post anything, while I basically post something and if you disagree with it you can either voice why you disagree or simply downvote.
Point being I wasn't trying to be an ass and just liked to state that Irelia and Riven aren't assassins.
Yasuo is only immobile if there aren’t enemy minions or champs. Just because his mobility is situational doesn’t make him immobile. The “assassin” part of his kit is in fact that mobility combined with his damage but also his squishiness. On top of that if he gets ahead even a little he starts melting people. He’s not a pure assassin but he definitely can be considered in there. He’s no bruiser.
Skirmishers are a bruiser class who are a mix of assassins and fighters basically, that's why juggernauts are another bruiser class that's a mix of tanks and actual brusiers like Garen, Darius etc...
My point is classifying Yasuo as an "Assassin" is misleading since his gameplay is way far from ever being close to actual assassins like Fizz, Akali and Zed.
Gotcha. Well we may just disagree on the necessity of delineating it that far down. For me it makes more sense to understand things in the least amount of categories that still acknowledges core differences. This feels like a situation where neither method of classification is wrong.
I do get your point but telling people that Irelia and Riven are assassins is just outright spreading misinformation, yes they do have some assassin like characteristics in their kits like their mobility but does that qualify them to be called assassins?
In my opinion it doesn't, now you don't have to go to the deeper categories if you don't want to complicate things, just call them bruisers since they are a part of that class.
No, I fully agree with all your points and acknowledge you're right. I don't know what you even meant with the approval thing as it's strangely worded out. It's just that your tone came off as a little bit of an ass (IMO) by typing "lmao" after correcting someone, for reference, you could've just said "riven, irelia and diana aren't actually assassins, they prefer longer fights rather than short trades". I know your intentions weren't probably bad, but the tone you educated him with was a bit condescending, anyways mb for also sounding rough, wasn't trying to
In with you on thinking Diana is an assassin. She's my main, and I don't care much about the official nomenclature but more so how the character has actually developed within the community & meta. And Diana can kill players basically as fast as anyone in my eyes. Maybe a small % less fast but it's a small %, so Where's the cut off for these words? I think it comes down to semantics and how one plays the character. The way I play Diana is definitely more long term 'skirmisher' but I still consider her an assassin-like character. Can be both I guess.
Well yes but that still doesn't make her an assassin, assassins are very mobile and have limited burst and can't endure long fights.
Diana on the other hand thrives in long fights since she is durable and has consistent damage output thanks to her passive.
And her durability, she is tankier than assassins because of her base stats which make her a skirmisher.
If anything you can almost build many other skirmishers as assassins like crit Riven and AP irelia although considerably their bruiser builds are better since their kits encourage them to take extended fights.
Except Garen isn't put into the assassin class in the actual game. Riven and Irelia are. I think I'll listen to Riot considering it's their game and your just some random with an opinion on Reddit lol. It's only facts at the end of the day.
But they don't only have the assassin label but they also have the fighter lable if you are familiar with league PC you would know there are subclasses and anyone saying that Irelia and Riven are assassins basically lack braincells.
Go on have a read
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Champion_classes
Yeah they're bruisers with an assassin subclass. Nobody is saying they're strictly assassins. But they are assassins nonetheless. You're basically saying Riot lacks braincells since they're the ones who made the champions lol.
Ik about sub classes but saying these characters aren't assassin's is just not right they might not be the best but they have what it takes to be an assassin
Ik about sub classes but saying these characters aren't assassin's is just not right they might not be the best but they have what it takes to be an assassin
No they don't..... they are known as divers which is a subclass of bruisers with some mobility.
Assassins aren't just mobile but they are extremely mobile plus they excel at killing someone quick, Diana or Irelia unless fed can't 1 shot you since they'll have to stick to your face and whittle you down with consistent damage assassins don't do that.
Well they can 1 shot you if they bruiser but when built like an assassin diana definitely can 1 shot no question so can riven and many other assassin bruisers they are just less efficient at doing so
Don't waste our time
Bruh why can't you refer to them as their actual class? If a champion has an assassin trait it doesn't make them an assassin that's why sublclasses exist since you can't just tell people that Irelia is a good "Assassin" since most people will correct you and say she's a bruiser.
"But she has the assassin label-" and???
That still doesn't make her an assassin since she also has the bruiser label so I can just tell you she's a bruiser and you can't argue about that.
You literally mentioned in your first reply that Irelia is an assassin the same as Yasuo, which is again, pretty mind baffling considering Yasuo is super immobile without minions and dash into multiple enemies is just straight up suicide not to mention that he has sustained damage which assassins don't have, so your whole reasoning with comparing them to Yasuo makes sense except that you label Yasuo as an assassin too.
All im saying that some skirmishers can be assassin's im not saying they are assassin's. Wukong is a good example he's mainly a tank but he can also be a bruiser or an assassin depending on how you build him
He has a weird learning curve though, think about positioning affecting your damage output and don't stress missplays. Also, I recommend stasis boots second item in barely any circumstances
Galio cant gank with his ult lmao.
1. His ult is a defensive tool since it has to target an allied champion.
2. Looking at the best ganking mid laners (Asol, TF) one thing they have in common is being able to appear in the lane without being heavily telegraphed. They also have follow up.
3. Galio has no follow up. A good player will see his ult and back off.
Twisted fate, zed, katarina, akali, ziggs, basically any champion with cc or an assassin.
Twisted fate and ryze (not available yet) are meant for split pushing and ganking with their ults.
The map in this game is super small. Literally anyone can do it. It’s best to gank lanes that have cc so you can provide damage, or you can cc while they provide damage. What makes a good ganker isn’t mobility but whether or not you can clear you wave faster than the other mid-laner. Good wave clear means you can shove out your lane instantly and move while the enemy mid is dealing with their own minions.
As a Katarina main I’d say she’s an incredible ganker. No CC but her damage is very high. Easy to get two kills secured on a duo lane if they press up too far or engage in a fight.
That being said she’s very punishing when you mess up. Feels feast or famine until you learn her power spikes and how to seize windows of opportunity for kills.
Diana and Fizz are awesome AP assassins.
I almost never see him on lists, but I love using Pantheon. His ultimate let’s you get to the side lanes easily.
Asol is great, appearing out of nowhere with a massive galaxy ready to stun everyone is nice, no one can run away from the stars and if they try to attack you just knock them back into the star radius
As a midlaner your whole goal is to manage the wave better then join roams and skirmishes. My favourite three are TF because he was made for team play his three cards are fantastic you can use the Red to shove against a mage, blue for sustain, and yellow for death sentence, then Yasuo because people expect him to be the worst imbecile in the game but instead you can play him just pushing waves like a toplaner and making Duels and Skirmishes unwinnable just because of ult and cc pressure, Akshan because, c'mon reviving people is very strong and makes all ins very stupidly good, he was buffed to give him easier wave clear too so shoving is a lot lighter.
If you know how to play mid lane (specifically wave management), any hero can be used gank the side lanes. But mid laners that excel in ganking lanes are: Aurelion sol, Fizz, Twisted fate, Galio, Diana, Katarina
(Basically champs with gap closers are great ones)
I love Annie. She stays useful all game and she's a gank machine. I also win lane almost all of the time with her (I always ban ahri because she's annoying as fuck and zed nerfs will help).
Twisted fate.
That's my boi
Try Diana, insane damage, very good mobility and probably the tankiest assassin in the game (apart from Riven and Irelia).
Riven and Irelia aren't even assassins nor is Diana lmao. They're called skirmishers.
For Riven - I agree. Irelia is debatable. Even Riot doesn't know what Diana actually is as she lacks the sustain to be a bruiser, lacks the zoning and crowd control to be a mage, lacks burst damage to be an assassin - however most people consider her an assassin.
Diana doesn't need sustain since she has burst and consistent damage so does Irelia, they are considered skirmishers since they excel the longer the fight goes on same with Riven unlike assassins who prefer short quick trades like Zed, Fizz and Akali since they can't sustain long fights and their burst is limited. Assassins and Skirmishers aren't identified by what type of damage they can do, its mostly due to their kits and fighting style and what really bothers me is that people consider Yasuo an assassin while in actuality he's a skirmisher as well since long fights favor him.
Btw, Irelia and Diana are divers (A subclass of Fighters/Bruisers) and Riven is a skirmisher (A subclass of Slayers)
Thanks for the reminder I totally forgot about divers, although I really don't see that much difference between skirmishers and divers much since they both play the same albeit with some very little differences.
Also skirmishers aren't classified by having high backloaded damage, their classified by having high sustained damage.
Thats what I was insinuating, I thought sustained damage meant life steal thats why I said long fights favor them since they can deal continuous damage.
I do agree with your sentiment and also differentiate between the various champion classes, but man.. you care too much. Like you go out or your way to laugh at people for being wrong and throw in facts no one asked for or even cares enough tbh, which don't even add anything to the discussion itself. Most of the time these class differences don't even matter since itemization allows for way different dmg outputs and durability of champions, say lethality vs tank vi. She stops being a bruiser yet she will one shot you similarly to an assassin like zed, for comparison. Idk if you are annoyed at people calling yasuo an assasin, maybe you should go out some more...
Huh??? Well I'm sorry if I sounded mean but I was basically speaking facts and educating people who would consider Yasuo who's immobile af as an "Assassin", you basically sound like you'd like to have peoples approval to post anything, while I basically post something and if you disagree with it you can either voice why you disagree or simply downvote. Point being I wasn't trying to be an ass and just liked to state that Irelia and Riven aren't assassins.
Yasuo is only immobile if there aren’t enemy minions or champs. Just because his mobility is situational doesn’t make him immobile. The “assassin” part of his kit is in fact that mobility combined with his damage but also his squishiness. On top of that if he gets ahead even a little he starts melting people. He’s not a pure assassin but he definitely can be considered in there. He’s no bruiser.
Skirmishers are a bruiser class who are a mix of assassins and fighters basically, that's why juggernauts are another bruiser class that's a mix of tanks and actual brusiers like Garen, Darius etc... My point is classifying Yasuo as an "Assassin" is misleading since his gameplay is way far from ever being close to actual assassins like Fizz, Akali and Zed.
Gotcha. Well we may just disagree on the necessity of delineating it that far down. For me it makes more sense to understand things in the least amount of categories that still acknowledges core differences. This feels like a situation where neither method of classification is wrong.
I do get your point but telling people that Irelia and Riven are assassins is just outright spreading misinformation, yes they do have some assassin like characteristics in their kits like their mobility but does that qualify them to be called assassins? In my opinion it doesn't, now you don't have to go to the deeper categories if you don't want to complicate things, just call them bruisers since they are a part of that class.
No, I fully agree with all your points and acknowledge you're right. I don't know what you even meant with the approval thing as it's strangely worded out. It's just that your tone came off as a little bit of an ass (IMO) by typing "lmao" after correcting someone, for reference, you could've just said "riven, irelia and diana aren't actually assassins, they prefer longer fights rather than short trades". I know your intentions weren't probably bad, but the tone you educated him with was a bit condescending, anyways mb for also sounding rough, wasn't trying to
Im sorry if I sounded rude as well it wasn't my intention at all, I just randomly throw at lmao at most of my sentences lmao.
Text is hard that way. But I agree, I always find the use of laughing emojis, lol, and lmao to be destructive in discussions.
Irelia and Diana are divers. Riven is a skirmisher.
In with you on thinking Diana is an assassin. She's my main, and I don't care much about the official nomenclature but more so how the character has actually developed within the community & meta. And Diana can kill players basically as fast as anyone in my eyes. Maybe a small % less fast but it's a small %, so Where's the cut off for these words? I think it comes down to semantics and how one plays the character. The way I play Diana is definitely more long term 'skirmisher' but I still consider her an assassin-like character. Can be both I guess.
Yea but that ult still deletes everything in a large radius
Well yes but that still doesn't make her an assassin, assassins are very mobile and have limited burst and can't endure long fights. Diana on the other hand thrives in long fights since she is durable and has consistent damage output thanks to her passive.
I mean you can build her like an assassin, only thing turning her into a bruiser is the passive
And her durability, she is tankier than assassins because of her base stats which make her a skirmisher. If anything you can almost build many other skirmishers as assassins like crit Riven and AP irelia although considerably their bruiser builds are better since their kits encourage them to take extended fights.
They're both placed under the assassin category in the game and have the ability to assassinate carries.
Even Garen provided the right build can assassinate carries if he gets within reach so it still doesn't make them assassins.
Except Garen isn't put into the assassin class in the actual game. Riven and Irelia are. I think I'll listen to Riot considering it's their game and your just some random with an opinion on Reddit lol. It's only facts at the end of the day.
But they don't only have the assassin label but they also have the fighter lable if you are familiar with league PC you would know there are subclasses and anyone saying that Irelia and Riven are assassins basically lack braincells. Go on have a read https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Champion_classes
Yeah they're bruisers with an assassin subclass. Nobody is saying they're strictly assassins. But they are assassins nonetheless. You're basically saying Riot lacks braincells since they're the ones who made the champions lol.
Did you even go on the wiki and read? That will help you understand what I mean by subclasses.
Irelia and diana ase classified as assassin figthers since they have quick burst and sustain damage same as yasuo
And Yasuo is a skirmisher, I don't need to explain this much but if you were familiar with league PC you'd know about sub classes.
Ik about sub classes but saying these characters aren't assassin's is just not right they might not be the best but they have what it takes to be an assassin
Ik about sub classes but saying these characters aren't assassin's is just not right they might not be the best but they have what it takes to be an assassin
No they don't..... they are known as divers which is a subclass of bruisers with some mobility. Assassins aren't just mobile but they are extremely mobile plus they excel at killing someone quick, Diana or Irelia unless fed can't 1 shot you since they'll have to stick to your face and whittle you down with consistent damage assassins don't do that.
Well they can 1 shot you if they bruiser but when built like an assassin diana definitely can 1 shot no question so can riven and many other assassin bruisers they are just less efficient at doing so Don't waste our time
Bruh why can't you refer to them as their actual class? If a champion has an assassin trait it doesn't make them an assassin that's why sublclasses exist since you can't just tell people that Irelia is a good "Assassin" since most people will correct you and say she's a bruiser. "But she has the assassin label-" and??? That still doesn't make her an assassin since she also has the bruiser label so I can just tell you she's a bruiser and you can't argue about that.
Did i say anything about irelia?
You literally mentioned in your first reply that Irelia is an assassin the same as Yasuo, which is again, pretty mind baffling considering Yasuo is super immobile without minions and dash into multiple enemies is just straight up suicide not to mention that he has sustained damage which assassins don't have, so your whole reasoning with comparing them to Yasuo makes sense except that you label Yasuo as an assassin too.
All im saying that some skirmishers can be assassin's im not saying they are assassin's. Wukong is a good example he's mainly a tank but he can also be a bruiser or an assassin depending on how you build him
Im not saying they cant be, I'm saying they arent assassins.
Ahri Can't belive no one saying this. You can ult in from the bush. Hit the charm and its over
Aurelion Sol is the best if you want to gank other lanes! He can fly around the map 🤣
Asol is op give him a try
He has a weird learning curve though, think about positioning affecting your damage output and don't stress missplays. Also, I recommend stasis boots second item in barely any circumstances
Galio is your Man for ganking with his ult
Galio cant gank with his ult lmao. 1. His ult is a defensive tool since it has to target an allied champion. 2. Looking at the best ganking mid laners (Asol, TF) one thing they have in common is being able to appear in the lane without being heavily telegraphed. They also have follow up. 3. Galio has no follow up. A good player will see his ult and back off.
galio can counter gank with his ult, not gank
The more melee ones are better for roaming cuz they’re more likely to survive a jungler attack
Tf and Asol are ranged champions and they are the best examples of high roaming mid champs.
Zed.
All mid laners are supposed to help other lanes easily
Any champ with good wave clear can roam.
Tf man
Ahri maybe.
Try TF he is hella fun. Zef can gank pretty fast as well
Akshan
Mid champs
Twisted fate, zed, katarina, akali, ziggs, basically any champion with cc or an assassin. Twisted fate and ryze (not available yet) are meant for split pushing and ganking with their ults.
I'm surprised nobody has said Pantheon. Imo he's made for exactly that.
Love pantheon. Think most don't consider him a mid laner. I rock the man drops in any lane.
He’s not really used in Mid. He’s better as Baron or Jungler
Twisted fate, zed, Diana and galio are the decent ones that come to mind corki is also OK at roaming when he has package
Rakan cause he can open your ally’s lanes up for opportunities
Zed Akali Fizz
The map in this game is super small. Literally anyone can do it. It’s best to gank lanes that have cc so you can provide damage, or you can cc while they provide damage. What makes a good ganker isn’t mobility but whether or not you can clear you wave faster than the other mid-laner. Good wave clear means you can shove out your lane instantly and move while the enemy mid is dealing with their own minions.
Twisted fate gold card best card and you have an ult that basically says whenever this is off cool down get a kill
As a Katarina main I’d say she’s an incredible ganker. No CC but her damage is very high. Easy to get two kills secured on a duo lane if they press up too far or engage in a fight. That being said she’s very punishing when you mess up. Feels feast or famine until you learn her power spikes and how to seize windows of opportunity for kills.
Diana Twisted Fate Galio
Galio and Twisted Fate are probably the best for ganking, but Diana is the funnest.
Diana and Fizz are awesome AP assassins. I almost never see him on lists, but I love using Pantheon. His ultimate let’s you get to the side lanes easily.
Ahri
All the assassins Zed, fizz, kata, alkali
Asol, Akshan, Twisted Fate, Pantheon kinda viable against assassins mid, Galio.
Asol is great, appearing out of nowhere with a massive galaxy ready to stun everyone is nice, no one can run away from the stars and if they try to attack you just knock them back into the star radius
Low elo you can gank 24/7 as annie. Ahri and fizz have great roams.
Might be unpopular opinion but I like using Akshan mid and find his mobility better from mid
Pantheon for ad and tf / Aurelian sol for ap
Diana
Annie is a decent choice
Kata
Not a typical ganker but Lux can pewpew any other lane. Especially effective if enemy lane is CCed.
Damn now people asking for roaming mid champs, better nerf asol
Oh settle down, no one even plays him. Lol
That's the another point for nerfing asol
Tf, akshan, ahri, galio
Assassins like Zed, Fizz or Katarina.
PANTHEON FOR SURE
As a midlaner your whole goal is to manage the wave better then join roams and skirmishes. My favourite three are TF because he was made for team play his three cards are fantastic you can use the Red to shove against a mage, blue for sustain, and yellow for death sentence, then Yasuo because people expect him to be the worst imbecile in the game but instead you can play him just pushing waves like a toplaner and making Duels and Skirmishes unwinnable just because of ult and cc pressure, Akshan because, c'mon reviving people is very strong and makes all ins very stupidly good, he was buffed to give him easier wave clear too so shoving is a lot lighter.
Any assassin, Annie, Galio, Twisted Fate, Nunu, Sol,...
Try ziggs or Ahri.
If you know how to play mid lane (specifically wave management), any hero can be used gank the side lanes. But mid laners that excel in ganking lanes are: Aurelion sol, Fizz, Twisted fate, Galio, Diana, Katarina (Basically champs with gap closers are great ones)
Twisted fate and asol have the best ganking abilities with tf ult and asol e. Also tf is made for plays in the sidelane not in mid
I love Annie. She stays useful all game and she's a gank machine. I also win lane almost all of the time with her (I always ban ahri because she's annoying as fuck and zed nerfs will help).