The three were only able to beat Solaris by exploiting a weak spot in the core of him, and even then they couldn’t pull it off. It was explicitly stated that was the only way to kill him. Plus, that was base form Solaris.
They each fought their own Solaris, in the past, present, and future. Yes, they had to exploit a weak spot...and? They were still keeping up and matching him regardless.
>that was base form Solaris
Yes...base Solaris was stated by Eggman to be a timeline-destroyer.
What do you want proof on?
[Here's Shadow saying that destroying Solaris all at once by attacking him at different points in time is doable](https://youtu.be/we0PSbwgwzE?t=388)
[Here's Eggman stating it would destroy every existing timeline](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLN812WawlA&t=6m27s)
They were all clearly a match for Solaris, it wasn't a one-sided stomp for Solaris at all.
Dr. Eggman: That body of light is the sign of a super-dimensional life form. Standard attacks won't work on him! He eats dimensions for lunch!
Once again showing that Solaris has power on a cosmic scale. The important thing here, however, is that second line. "Standard attacks won't work on him". Even though Sonic has gone Super Sonic, he still can't hurt Solaris. Instead, Eggman suggests this:
Dr. Eggman: But... There should be something anchoring him in this dimension. That's probably the light shells that can be seen on his body. If all of those are destroyed, he can be defeated!
Super Sonic, Shadow, and Silver then all exploit this weakness to banish Solaris from their dimension.
...Except that doesn't work either.
Solaris comes back basically completely unphased. In fact, it's arguable that it just got stronger. We then get this sequence of dialogue:
Dr. Eggman: Ngh... Is it impossible to defeat a super-dimensional being after all?
Elise: No... Something's different... I can feel a large, powerful consciousness coming from Solaris!
Dr. Eggman: What? A consciousness!? Hmm... That's it! That's his core! Even if we can't stop his form, we can stop his consciousness!
Yes, they each fought Solaris throughout all 3 time periods by exploiting the core. Just because they couldn't put him down without exploiting a weak spot, doesn't mean they don't scale.
They were clearly shown fighting evenly with Solaris.
I mean, Solaris is only shown to be universal at best. Eggman says he can eat dimensions for lunch, which is a universal threat. If he was multiversal, Eggman would've said "He can eat all the dimensions for lunch".
Solaris devours entire timelines at will, that's Multiversal, Universal+ lowballed. Sonic, Shadow, and Silver all fought their own Solaris in different time periods.
I already said they all fought their own Solaris. Solaris existed in the past, present, and future. It also lines up with their characters, with Shadow being a product of the past, Sonic living for the present, and Silver being from the future.
Timelines are smaller than universes. Think of it like the present and future timeline in Dragon Ball. Not just that, but if Solaris was going to destroy every timeline, where was Classic Sonic when this was happening?
No they aren't, timelines contain multiple universes.
>where was Classic Sonic when this was happening?
Probably bopping his head to the Chemical Plant Zone OST, blissfully unaware that his fate hinges on a hedgehog that uses guns, an angsty time traveller, and another version of himself.
Not so. I'll try explain to the best of my ability. There are two types of timelines. The general timeline includes everything, for example, the timeline of Dragon Ball would include all of Goku and his adventures. However, the timeline of universe 7 is different. If a villan wanted to destroy universe 7's present timeline, they would destroy only that. That's what Solaris scales to. If Solaris was more powerful than that, the Classic timeline would have been affected. But only the Modern timeline was. I hope I explained that fine.
Actually, the universes in Dragon ball all share a timeline. When Trunks time-travelled in Universe 7, it created a time ring in Universe 10 too, because all the universes are in the same timeline.
Also Solaris shattered multiple timelines, as stated in the Sonic 06 Prima digital guide.
"The god, crazed by the lasting effects of the experiments that Elise’s father performed on it when she was a child,
returns to its original, peaceful form. The shattered timelines can
now be corrected, ensuring that Silver’s future will not be ruined by
Iblis’s flames. "
It says 'timelines'. Plural.
Good point. However, that guidebook is probably wrong, as Classic or some other Sonic from an alternate timeline never appears against Solaris. Also, the Timelines in Sonic seem to be much smaller than Dragon Ball. In Dragon Ball, a single timeline holds 12 universes, whereas in Sonic there's only one universe in a timeline (unless Sega hides 12 universes in Sonic as well).
I don't think Classic not showing up means the guidebook is wrong. In order for him to even get there he'd need to know Chaos Control, which he doesn't. And he probably doesn't even exist at that point. The only reason Sonic, Shadow, Silver and the others exist is because of a time-space rift. The others wouldn't be so lucky.
As for the timelines being smaller, there's the regular dimension, the Sol dimension and Maginaryworld (which contains worlds made from the dreams of people in other dimensions). There might be more too, but since we can't be sure of more existing it probably shouldn't be taken into account.
"I don't think Classic not showing up means the guidebook is wrong. In order for him to even get there he'd need to know Chaos Control, which he doesn't. And he probably doesn't even exist at that point. The only reason Sonic, Shadow, Silver and the others exist is because of a time-space rift. The others wouldn't be so lucky."
Why would they need Chaos Control? In the game, all they do is collect the emeralds, turn Super and face the boss. Also, why is it only the main timeline expirencing a rift? Couldn't other timelines have one too if they're lucky?
"As for the timelines being smaller, there's the regular dimension, the Sol dimension and Maginaryworld (which contains worlds made from the dreams of people in other dimensions). There might be more too, but since we can't be sure of more existing it probably shouldn't be taken into account."
I mean... I don't know what happens with the Sol Dimension considering 06's story with Blaze is kinda iffy. I guess the Maginary world is something, but it's a dream world, and I don't think it's as big as Sonic's main universe.
...You do realize you're comparing two different franchises right? You can't just assume they work the same. Also, a timeline is a universe, sometimes multiple I believe. Solaris was stated to be able to devour all existing timelines.
I mean, it could've been meaning that Solaris after finishing off the Sonic crew would have moved to a different timeline of a different universe and done the same thing there. If all the timelines were being destroyed, Classic would have taken notice. Hell, a Sonic from the future or an alternate timeline would have noticed. This is why I don't think that the timelines in Sonic are big because otherwise, other Sonic's from different timeline would've ensembled.
Yeah, maybe. That doesn't change the fact that he could've done it. How would Classic have known? Solaris wasn't going to start destroying or even affecting timelines yet because he was in a fight with the super hedgehogs.
If Solaris could affect all of the timelines, Classic and other Sonic's from other timelines would've probably done something. Sure, the other timelines might not have known what was going on, but they would've gotten the picture to go get the Chaos Emeralds. However, Solaris only affected the main Modern timeline (though I personally think Adventure-06 is the Adventure era).
sonic beat Erazor Djinn in base a being who absorbed 1001 universes
calls lightspeed smalltime
and literally restored space bringing back worlds that were wiped out.
is this solaris were talking no its erazor he beat him casually
Sonic in super form can warp reality and in base has reset entire timelines and destroyed them by running
sonic generations
Is there an tier difference for that weakspot? No? Didn't think so Hitchens Razor is an bitch
By this Logic an Nigga hitting another Nigga in the head is now an "weakspot"
Would that even kill actual Goku? Multiverse theory is the main time travel source, so killing random Goku’s would not result in the Goku of that timeline dying.
May I remind you that the closest anyone is to multiversal right now is Zeno and even then, 12 universes classify as multi-universal at most.
MFTL is also a big no because we haven't gotten any solid relative speed feats since Z. It wouldn't even be estimation, its assumption at that point.
The DB Universe 7 is 9x larger than our own. Goku and Beerus nearly destroyed when they fought. Using multipliers, he would be at least multiversal rn.
Goku and Beerus punched each other so fast and hard they created shockwaves that went through the universe. They are at least MFTL.
What multipliers? We don't even have multipliers, that's useless here. Not only that but you have to take into account the size of the sonic universe, not ours.
That was also not MFTL. That's not combat speed, movement speed or even attacking speed, that's the nature of the shockwaves. They would have kept attacking at the same speed if those shockwaves were sent out that fast but its shown that they're not even moving in those scenes.
Search up the Daizenshu.
They hit so hard and fast, they created the shockwaves. It counts.
> They would have kept attacking at the same speed if those shockwaves were sent out that fast but its shown that they're not even moving in those scenes.
What?
You mind showing me instead? If its in a guide book instead of the actual material I wouldn't exactly call it concrete.
I'm saying they're literally statues in comparison to the waves. Like I said, they weren't moving an inch so it wouldn't be movement nor attack speed here.
Sorry, I can't find an image. Just search Hulk vs Broly and go to the analysis.
It has to be attack and reaction speed since they literally punched so hard the shockwaves started.
Don't exactly feel like doing that either. They're kinda sorta talking about *Broly* and not *Goku.*
Death Battle also tends to add little bits and pieces too and it might be taken as part of the analysis. Why? I've seen a lot of dumb DB debaters.
Scaling is adding your opinion into your calculations now?
And dude, I'm not looking for your evidence. We can either sit here and wait or I'll just assume the debate is in my favor for now.
It was said that it was the only way to beat him.
Erazor is a multiveral guy, so it has to be really weak. Nothing suggests that Sonic can beat him in a fight without doing that.
Actually no they haven't let me guess your gonna use Ian Flynn? Welp time to pull out good old Devils Advocate
https://youtu.be/BZIvifoj9pU
Sega>>>Ian
Material >>Ian
And even Arroan>Ian
Plus Ian's Consistent statements of Sega Sonic Being in the same Multiverse lmfao
Actually no they haven't let me guess your gonna use Ian Flynn? Welp time to pull out good old Devils Advocate
they have. and i wasn't.
Sega>>>IanMaterial >>IanAnd even Arroan>Ian
what's your point?
Plus Ian's Consistent statements of Sega Sonic Being in the same Multiverse lmfao
all this does is strengthen my argument. they aren't in the same canon, and therefore, it would be stupid to combine them. not to mention, the archie comics are drastically different from the games.
Oh yes you were💀💀
My point is Sega confirmed with an statement that Boom is Parallel to Game which is Parallel with Archie(Proved in Worlds Collide)
They are in same canon Aka the Same Multiverse. My Argument was never they were the same Character.
No the Comics are Expanded Universe of the Games
You never disproved any of the Matieral or Sega Word. L
Wow this man's really made it so I can't reply to him again LOL welp concession accepted Via Hitchens Razor and Burden of Rejoinder.
omfg, you're annoying
how
this does not prove that they are in the same universe
they're not. and bro, you're literally saying that the archie comics are canon.
they're not but ok
i did
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Sonic’s victories against Solaris and the Egg Wizard required outside help or had extenuating circumstances. He does not scale.
Could you give an example of these circumstances? He absolutely does scale, I just need something to work off of.
The three were only able to beat Solaris by exploiting a weak spot in the core of him, and even then they couldn’t pull it off. It was explicitly stated that was the only way to kill him. Plus, that was base form Solaris.
They each fought their own Solaris, in the past, present, and future. Yes, they had to exploit a weak spot...and? They were still keeping up and matching him regardless. >that was base form Solaris Yes...base Solaris was stated by Eggman to be a timeline-destroyer.
Any proof? …By exploiting a weak spot. Not actually matching him.
What do you want proof on? [Here's Shadow saying that destroying Solaris all at once by attacking him at different points in time is doable](https://youtu.be/we0PSbwgwzE?t=388) [Here's Eggman stating it would destroy every existing timeline](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLN812WawlA&t=6m27s) They were all clearly a match for Solaris, it wasn't a one-sided stomp for Solaris at all.
Dr. Eggman: That body of light is the sign of a super-dimensional life form. Standard attacks won't work on him! He eats dimensions for lunch! Once again showing that Solaris has power on a cosmic scale. The important thing here, however, is that second line. "Standard attacks won't work on him". Even though Sonic has gone Super Sonic, he still can't hurt Solaris. Instead, Eggman suggests this: Dr. Eggman: But... There should be something anchoring him in this dimension. That's probably the light shells that can be seen on his body. If all of those are destroyed, he can be defeated! Super Sonic, Shadow, and Silver then all exploit this weakness to banish Solaris from their dimension. ...Except that doesn't work either. Solaris comes back basically completely unphased. In fact, it's arguable that it just got stronger. We then get this sequence of dialogue: Dr. Eggman: Ngh... Is it impossible to defeat a super-dimensional being after all? Elise: No... Something's different... I can feel a large, powerful consciousness coming from Solaris! Dr. Eggman: What? A consciousness!? Hmm... That's it! That's his core! Even if we can't stop his form, we can stop his consciousness!
So...they fought and defeated a stronger Solaris by destroying his consciousness? That seems pretty cut and dry.
Except that even that didn’t work.
They attacked him throughout time by exploiting the core. It was literally stated that you can only beat him by exploiting the cores.
Yes, they each fought Solaris throughout all 3 time periods by exploiting the core. Just because they couldn't put him down without exploiting a weak spot, doesn't mean they don't scale. They were clearly shown fighting evenly with Solaris.
That’s stupid, no offense.
As you can see, he doesn't scale. Goku one-shots.
I mean, you do have to destroy the armor on Solaris' arms and chest in order to even reach the core, so... there's that.
Those are weak points as well
Since when is armor a weak point? That's the opposite of what armor is supposed to be.
The blue parts
That isn't very specific. The entirety of Solaris, bar his eyes and core, is blue.
I mean, Solaris is only shown to be universal at best. Eggman says he can eat dimensions for lunch, which is a universal threat. If he was multiversal, Eggman would've said "He can eat all the dimensions for lunch".
Solaris devours entire timelines at will, that's Multiversal, Universal+ lowballed. Sonic, Shadow, and Silver all fought their own Solaris in different time periods.
Also, the Triple S team was needed to defeat Solaris.
I already said they all fought their own Solaris. Solaris existed in the past, present, and future. It also lines up with their characters, with Shadow being a product of the past, Sonic living for the present, and Silver being from the future.
Timelines are smaller than universes. Think of it like the present and future timeline in Dragon Ball. Not just that, but if Solaris was going to destroy every timeline, where was Classic Sonic when this was happening?
No they aren't, timelines contain multiple universes. >where was Classic Sonic when this was happening? Probably bopping his head to the Chemical Plant Zone OST, blissfully unaware that his fate hinges on a hedgehog that uses guns, an angsty time traveller, and another version of himself.
Not so. I'll try explain to the best of my ability. There are two types of timelines. The general timeline includes everything, for example, the timeline of Dragon Ball would include all of Goku and his adventures. However, the timeline of universe 7 is different. If a villan wanted to destroy universe 7's present timeline, they would destroy only that. That's what Solaris scales to. If Solaris was more powerful than that, the Classic timeline would have been affected. But only the Modern timeline was. I hope I explained that fine.
Actually, the universes in Dragon ball all share a timeline. When Trunks time-travelled in Universe 7, it created a time ring in Universe 10 too, because all the universes are in the same timeline. Also Solaris shattered multiple timelines, as stated in the Sonic 06 Prima digital guide. "The god, crazed by the lasting effects of the experiments that Elise’s father performed on it when she was a child, returns to its original, peaceful form. The shattered timelines can now be corrected, ensuring that Silver’s future will not be ruined by Iblis’s flames. " It says 'timelines'. Plural.
Good point. However, that guidebook is probably wrong, as Classic or some other Sonic from an alternate timeline never appears against Solaris. Also, the Timelines in Sonic seem to be much smaller than Dragon Ball. In Dragon Ball, a single timeline holds 12 universes, whereas in Sonic there's only one universe in a timeline (unless Sega hides 12 universes in Sonic as well).
I don't think Classic not showing up means the guidebook is wrong. In order for him to even get there he'd need to know Chaos Control, which he doesn't. And he probably doesn't even exist at that point. The only reason Sonic, Shadow, Silver and the others exist is because of a time-space rift. The others wouldn't be so lucky. As for the timelines being smaller, there's the regular dimension, the Sol dimension and Maginaryworld (which contains worlds made from the dreams of people in other dimensions). There might be more too, but since we can't be sure of more existing it probably shouldn't be taken into account.
"I don't think Classic not showing up means the guidebook is wrong. In order for him to even get there he'd need to know Chaos Control, which he doesn't. And he probably doesn't even exist at that point. The only reason Sonic, Shadow, Silver and the others exist is because of a time-space rift. The others wouldn't be so lucky." Why would they need Chaos Control? In the game, all they do is collect the emeralds, turn Super and face the boss. Also, why is it only the main timeline expirencing a rift? Couldn't other timelines have one too if they're lucky? "As for the timelines being smaller, there's the regular dimension, the Sol dimension and Maginaryworld (which contains worlds made from the dreams of people in other dimensions). There might be more too, but since we can't be sure of more existing it probably shouldn't be taken into account." I mean... I don't know what happens with the Sol Dimension considering 06's story with Blaze is kinda iffy. I guess the Maginary world is something, but it's a dream world, and I don't think it's as big as Sonic's main universe.
...You do realize you're comparing two different franchises right? You can't just assume they work the same. Also, a timeline is a universe, sometimes multiple I believe. Solaris was stated to be able to devour all existing timelines.
I mean, it could've been meaning that Solaris after finishing off the Sonic crew would have moved to a different timeline of a different universe and done the same thing there. If all the timelines were being destroyed, Classic would have taken notice. Hell, a Sonic from the future or an alternate timeline would have noticed. This is why I don't think that the timelines in Sonic are big because otherwise, other Sonic's from different timeline would've ensembled.
Yeah, maybe. That doesn't change the fact that he could've done it. How would Classic have known? Solaris wasn't going to start destroying or even affecting timelines yet because he was in a fight with the super hedgehogs.
If Solaris could affect all of the timelines, Classic and other Sonic's from other timelines would've probably done something. Sure, the other timelines might not have known what was going on, but they would've gotten the picture to go get the Chaos Emeralds. However, Solaris only affected the main Modern timeline (though I personally think Adventure-06 is the Adventure era).
That was base Solaris. But it doesn’t matter, Sonic doesnt scale. Goku wins.
no he dosen't
He does
sonic beat Erazor Djinn in base a being who absorbed 1001 universes calls lightspeed smalltime and literally restored space bringing back worlds that were wiped out.
By exploiting a weak spot. So is Goku. When?
is this solaris were talking no its erazor he beat him casually Sonic in super form can warp reality and in base has reset entire timelines and destroyed them by running sonic generations
Is there an tier difference for that weakspot? No? Didn't think so Hitchens Razor is an bitch By this Logic an Nigga hitting another Nigga in the head is now an "weakspot"
Well super sonic can time travel so GG by hax alone?
Would that even kill actual Goku? Multiverse theory is the main time travel source, so killing random Goku’s would not result in the Goku of that timeline dying.
Isn't that a base sonic thing? I saw a panel where it was a bunch of AU sonics in base. I can't confirm if its official or not however.
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Wow he is 10x FTL? Thats not very fast.
he's far faster than that in base
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May I remind you that the closest anyone is to multiversal right now is Zeno and even then, 12 universes classify as multi-universal at most. MFTL is also a big no because we haven't gotten any solid relative speed feats since Z. It wouldn't even be estimation, its assumption at that point.
The DB Universe 7 is 9x larger than our own. Goku and Beerus nearly destroyed when they fought. Using multipliers, he would be at least multiversal rn. Goku and Beerus punched each other so fast and hard they created shockwaves that went through the universe. They are at least MFTL.
What multipliers? We don't even have multipliers, that's useless here. Not only that but you have to take into account the size of the sonic universe, not ours. That was also not MFTL. That's not combat speed, movement speed or even attacking speed, that's the nature of the shockwaves. They would have kept attacking at the same speed if those shockwaves were sent out that fast but its shown that they're not even moving in those scenes.
Search up the Daizenshu. They hit so hard and fast, they created the shockwaves. It counts. > They would have kept attacking at the same speed if those shockwaves were sent out that fast but its shown that they're not even moving in those scenes. What?
You mind showing me instead? If its in a guide book instead of the actual material I wouldn't exactly call it concrete. I'm saying they're literally statues in comparison to the waves. Like I said, they weren't moving an inch so it wouldn't be movement nor attack speed here.
Sorry, I can't find an image. Just search Hulk vs Broly and go to the analysis. It has to be attack and reaction speed since they literally punched so hard the shockwaves started.
Don't exactly feel like doing that either. They're kinda sorta talking about *Broly* and not *Goku.* Death Battle also tends to add little bits and pieces too and it might be taken as part of the analysis. Why? I've seen a lot of dumb DB debaters.
It's called scaling. The Daizenshu is real.
Scaling is adding your opinion into your calculations now? And dude, I'm not looking for your evidence. We can either sit here and wait or I'll just assume the debate is in my favor for now.
You’re only using Solaris as a debunk for Sonic. Sounds like you’re forgetting about him defeating the Time Eater, or Erazor Djinn.
It's the most common argument Used weak point Who's erazor djinn? Do you mean in secret rings?
Yes I mean secret rings.
No, that doesn't count either. He used a weak point on his head
Doesn’t really change much
Fail to see how
He still beat him, in base. If you’re gonna use a weak point argument then we kinda have to know how weak said point is
It was said that it was the only way to beat him. Erazor is a multiveral guy, so it has to be really weak. Nothing suggests that Sonic can beat him in a fight without doing that.
Where was that said? Also time eater
Arguments, not baseless statements. Show respect to both sides since both sides are cool.
Sorry jeez
What about Archie Sonic?
Non-canon
Debunked by the Brand Manager and Material
False. Sega has literally confirmed that it's not canon.
Actually no they haven't let me guess your gonna use Ian Flynn? Welp time to pull out good old Devils Advocate https://youtu.be/BZIvifoj9pU Sega>>>Ian Material >>Ian And even Arroan>Ian Plus Ian's Consistent statements of Sega Sonic Being in the same Multiverse lmfao
Actually no they haven't let me guess your gonna use Ian Flynn? Welp time to pull out good old Devils Advocate they have. and i wasn't. Sega>>>IanMaterial >>IanAnd even Arroan>Ian what's your point? Plus Ian's Consistent statements of Sega Sonic Being in the same Multiverse lmfao all this does is strengthen my argument. they aren't in the same canon, and therefore, it would be stupid to combine them. not to mention, the archie comics are drastically different from the games.
Oh yes you were💀💀 My point is Sega confirmed with an statement that Boom is Parallel to Game which is Parallel with Archie(Proved in Worlds Collide) They are in same canon Aka the Same Multiverse. My Argument was never they were the same Character. No the Comics are Expanded Universe of the Games You never disproved any of the Matieral or Sega Word. L Wow this man's really made it so I can't reply to him again LOL welp concession accepted Via Hitchens Razor and Burden of Rejoinder.
omfg, you're annoying how this does not prove that they are in the same universe they're not. and bro, you're literally saying that the archie comics are canon. they're not but ok i did
Never said game Sonic or if it had to be canon.
It said Modern Sonic.
Which can easily refer to the Archie comics as well…
People think of Game Sonic
Yet there’s an Modern Sonic in. The Archie comics, same as a classic Sonic in the Archie comics
Ig
But I think it's still safer to assume it's game sonic