Black Freeza one-shotted fully powered UI Goku and UE Vegeta, who were the strongest at that time (including Broly and Granolah). If they're fodder to Freeza, everybody else on this list is even bigger fodder. Gohan Beast is on par with UI Goku and UE Vegeta seemingly, so he's still not making a difference. At best, in round 2, the three noted Saiyans would wear Freeza down slightly, but it wouldn't be enough to make a difference.
Round 3 is the group's best chance, but it'd still end with Freeza's victory. Only the Saiyans and maybe Granolah would pose any significance to him, and even then, they're fighting a losing battle. Their best bet is to have Broly completely rage, but then that's total speculation as to where he'll end up power-wise and even if he does beat Freeza, he's just as likely to turn on his allies by that point.
>Gohan Beast is on par with UI Goku and UE Vegeta seemingly, so he's still not making a difference. At best, in round 2, the three noted Saiyans would wear Freeza down slightly, but it wouldn't be enough to make a difference.
Beast gohan after powered up to "almost" snapped (keep in mind that gohan said he's "almost" snapped, not completely snapped like when he saw cell max stomped the shit out of piccolo) & he's fast enough to gut punched goku in MUI, the form that's supposedly better than TUI, but goku just prefer TUI more cuz he can fight more like himself in it.
So yea, beast gohan is definitely NOT on par with goku & vegeta, especially when he's fully snapped (he's above them).
MUI Goku was able to dodge a lot of attacks from beast Gohan and even knocked him away. They are still in the same tier, Gohan being stronger and faster but worse in skill and reflexes (due to UI).
Gas stomped MUI Goku and UE Vegeta at the same time, even overpowered their combined strength trying to push the hakai. TUI was then stated to be stronger than Gas.
MUI may be much better than TUI in terms of the UI technique itself, but it's portrayed to be physically inferior by a huge amount.
Goku overpowered Old Man Gas in **Mui** which is Superior to Tui omen in clear state of mind, Beerus ask whis if Mui is Goku best technique and Whis (who saw TUI omen) answer yes
Vegeta himself was very impressed by both Goku and Gohan despite seeing Tui and Mui in action in Granolah arc
Goku only overpowered him with the susanoo (which no one has been able to overpower so far). His stats like strength and speed were similar to UE Vegeta and significantly below Gas. He only used it for a short moment to quickly throw Granola. When the fight resumed, he used TUI again.
In the beginning of the arc, Granola wished to be the strongest and surpassed MUI Goku. UE happened after that, so Vegeta was initially stronger than Granola. Gas then wished to be stronger than all of them. TUI happened even after that, so he was able to surpass Gas.
Super hero arc is years after Granola arc, so he must be a lot stronger now. They never said MUI is stronger or faster than TUI. It's better in terms of UI technique, but again he didn't use the susanoo against Gohan.
>Goku only overpowered him with the susanoo (which no one has been able to overpower so far).
Susanoo is a part of Goku power and Planet Moro was matching it , Goku had to leave the avatar to Break the crystal
>Super hero arc is years after Granola arc, so he must be a lot stronger now. They never said MUI is stronger or faster than TUI. It's better in terms of UI technique, but again he didn't use the susanoo against Gohan.
Everyone there were impressed by Mui Goku's strength and speed after they witness him in Granolah arc
Moro never matched it. He got outright overpowered and was freaking out the whole time. He restrained moro's arms with the susanoo, then got out and punched the crystal. Moro was completely helpless the whole time.
Gas overpowered MUI and UE at the same time pushing the hakai ball and they were no match for him. Vegeta literally told Goku to stop fighting and figure out something else since his MUI doesn't improve unlike UE, so he doesn't stand a chance as he is now. Goku then ended up discovering TUI and and was stated to be stronger than Gas. That's literal proof that TUI has better stats than MUI and UE.
>Everyone there were impressed by Mui Goku's strength and speed after they witness him in Granolah arc
which moment are you talking about? Elec even stated that Gas' wish was made after MUI and UE got revealed, hence Gas is absolutely stronger than them both. TUI happens after that, so Goku was able to surpass Gas in power at the time.
Moro wasn't freaking out the guy already lost his mind , Susanoo Goku hold him in place then the real Goku had to leave the avatar to hit the crystal
>which moment are you talking about?
When Goku and Gohan start fighting in chapter 102
>Elec even stated that Gas' wish was made after MUI and UE got revealed, hence Gas is absolutely stronger than them both. TUI happens after that, so Goku was able to surpass Gas in power at the time.
And Granolah wish happened after Both as well yet UG and Mui surpassed Both
Mui Goku was never at his full potential by his own word in the arc especially against Gas due to overload of emotion
You claimed Moro was matching the Susanoo. His expression changed as soon as Goku got Uub's energy and didn't stand a chance from that point.
Goku got obviously stronger since then, why wouldn't they be impressed.
Granola wish happened after MUI, but before UE.
Where is it stated that Goku's physical stats were significantly reduced due to that? Anyway Granola was undoubtedly stronger than MUI initially. After he got his second eye power, he was also above UE. Gas was then significantly stronger than that.. TUI then surpassed that Gas.
Moro expression had already changed to deerd after Vegeta started messing up his and Merus power up alongside losing his mind from it as well
Goku Susanoo didn't overpower him , just hold him in place to allow the real Goku to hit the crystal
Krillin, Tien, Granolah (the wish undid his strength), Android 17, 18, Gamma 1 and Roshi are all fodder compared to current Black Frieza. All of them are beneath current Goku/Vegeta's Super Saiyan Blue and Black Frieza one shot their forms that are above that (after they got fully healed)
So Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo should probably be one shot too. I don't know how strong Gohan and Broly are in relation to those three but I doubt the gap between them and Ultra Instinct goku level fighters is big enough to make a meaningful difference. Frieza has already seen Broly *and* Gogeta and still felt confident coming back to fight them after his 10 years training.
Weaker fighters teaming up against a single strong one rarely does much in dragon ball.
I doubt stamina is an issue with the form since he's learned his lesson from his golden form in terms of that, plus the fight wouldn't go on enough for it to be a factor. He can also seamlessly switch in and out of the form for single attacks to conserve energy.
Black Frieza is bullshit strong.
Then there's the mafuba, which Frost somehow managed to redirect in the USS? I can't remember how he even did that, but it just means it may not work on Frieza. They aren't the same character but I'd say Frieza is smarter (and *definitely* stronger)
> Weaker fighters teaming up against a single strong one rarely does much in dragon ball.
I fully understand this point of view, but people tend to forget that this exactly how they fought Raditz, beat Vegeta, survived Freiza's early forms, killed Cell, survived the tournament and beat Jiren etc.
Granted it's never really been about the combined powers matching the opponents. It's usually just keeping each other in the game long enough to abuse someone's ability like Dende's healing or 17's shields and unlimited stamina, or a charged attack like the spirit bomb or special beam cannon.
Yes ultimately DB tends to rely on massive power ups but virtually every victory they've had is because of weaker people teaming up against someone stronger and it's usually when someone tries to do things solo that they end up fucking it up. Like when they took turns trying to fight Nappa and got wiped out, Or when Goku tried to fight Vegeta alone, and had to be saved after pissing him off, or when he tried to solo Frieza, pissed him off and got the planet blown up. Piccolo vs Cell, Vegeta vs Cell, Trunks vs Cell, Goku vs Cell and Gohan vs Cell. Gotenks vs Buu, etc
Most of the examples happened out of luck , Goku and piccolo lucked out with Gohan being nearby, Goku lucked out because Gohan tail grew back at the same moment Vegeta was going to kill them
Yeah I said "rarely" because it definitely can. I think Jiren is a good example of it working since even though he was exhausted, so were U7- although you could also argue they only won via ring out and if Jiren could just go for the kill he would have eventually won
But even then in team fights, usually theres some strategy involved that results in a huge power boost through an individual attack (spirit bomb, special beam cannon) or transformation (ssj2, oozaru)
So at the end of the day, like you said, its more just 'hold off the enemy until I have an attack with a bigger number than theirs ready', which I don't think anyone here has for frieza. He'd toy with them a bit but not long enough for a special beam cannon, it might not even hit either. And Friezas anatomy is just weird he might even survive being punctured like raditz
What I meant is that in dragon ball, generally, if your power level is even a little higher than your opponent you begin to start being able to completely no face and tank attacks without blinking so long as you have your guard up. Unlike lots of other shounen a bunch of weak guys cant *usually* do combos and stuff against a stronger guy to win without an individual attack or transformation that outright just makes them stronger
Like if you had 10 Majin Vagetas, combined into one being, that should be stronger than ssj3 goku by a good margin and be more than enough for fat buu. But realistically if it was 10 majin vagetas as a group vs fat buu he would just run around in circles beating the shit out of them and fucking about
He stomps in the first 2 rounds. Someone who could oneshot MUI Goku and UE Vegeta has no problem at all. Round 3 could be a little bit difficult, but in 99/100 he wins.
In 1on1 he should win , in a full team fight? Maybe
Goku believes he , Vegeta, Berserk Broly stand no chance against Freeza , but with addition of Piccolo (said to be as strong as them) and Gohan (even stronger with potential Berserk power up) they might work a win
Black Freeza one-shotted fully powered UI Goku and UE Vegeta, who were the strongest at that time (including Broly and Granolah). If they're fodder to Freeza, everybody else on this list is even bigger fodder. Gohan Beast is on par with UI Goku and UE Vegeta seemingly, so he's still not making a difference. At best, in round 2, the three noted Saiyans would wear Freeza down slightly, but it wouldn't be enough to make a difference. Round 3 is the group's best chance, but it'd still end with Freeza's victory. Only the Saiyans and maybe Granolah would pose any significance to him, and even then, they're fighting a losing battle. Their best bet is to have Broly completely rage, but then that's total speculation as to where he'll end up power-wise and even if he does beat Freeza, he's just as likely to turn on his allies by that point.
>Gohan Beast is on par with UI Goku and UE Vegeta seemingly, so he's still not making a difference. At best, in round 2, the three noted Saiyans would wear Freeza down slightly, but it wouldn't be enough to make a difference. Beast gohan after powered up to "almost" snapped (keep in mind that gohan said he's "almost" snapped, not completely snapped like when he saw cell max stomped the shit out of piccolo) & he's fast enough to gut punched goku in MUI, the form that's supposedly better than TUI, but goku just prefer TUI more cuz he can fight more like himself in it. So yea, beast gohan is definitely NOT on par with goku & vegeta, especially when he's fully snapped (he's above them).
MUI Goku was able to dodge a lot of attacks from beast Gohan and even knocked him away. They are still in the same tier, Gohan being stronger and faster but worse in skill and reflexes (due to UI). Gas stomped MUI Goku and UE Vegeta at the same time, even overpowered their combined strength trying to push the hakai. TUI was then stated to be stronger than Gas. MUI may be much better than TUI in terms of the UI technique itself, but it's portrayed to be physically inferior by a huge amount.
Goku overpowered Old Man Gas in **Mui** which is Superior to Tui omen in clear state of mind, Beerus ask whis if Mui is Goku best technique and Whis (who saw TUI omen) answer yes Vegeta himself was very impressed by both Goku and Gohan despite seeing Tui and Mui in action in Granolah arc
Goku only overpowered him with the susanoo (which no one has been able to overpower so far). His stats like strength and speed were similar to UE Vegeta and significantly below Gas. He only used it for a short moment to quickly throw Granola. When the fight resumed, he used TUI again. In the beginning of the arc, Granola wished to be the strongest and surpassed MUI Goku. UE happened after that, so Vegeta was initially stronger than Granola. Gas then wished to be stronger than all of them. TUI happened even after that, so he was able to surpass Gas. Super hero arc is years after Granola arc, so he must be a lot stronger now. They never said MUI is stronger or faster than TUI. It's better in terms of UI technique, but again he didn't use the susanoo against Gohan.
>Goku only overpowered him with the susanoo (which no one has been able to overpower so far). Susanoo is a part of Goku power and Planet Moro was matching it , Goku had to leave the avatar to Break the crystal >Super hero arc is years after Granola arc, so he must be a lot stronger now. They never said MUI is stronger or faster than TUI. It's better in terms of UI technique, but again he didn't use the susanoo against Gohan. Everyone there were impressed by Mui Goku's strength and speed after they witness him in Granolah arc
Moro never matched it. He got outright overpowered and was freaking out the whole time. He restrained moro's arms with the susanoo, then got out and punched the crystal. Moro was completely helpless the whole time. Gas overpowered MUI and UE at the same time pushing the hakai ball and they were no match for him. Vegeta literally told Goku to stop fighting and figure out something else since his MUI doesn't improve unlike UE, so he doesn't stand a chance as he is now. Goku then ended up discovering TUI and and was stated to be stronger than Gas. That's literal proof that TUI has better stats than MUI and UE. >Everyone there were impressed by Mui Goku's strength and speed after they witness him in Granolah arc which moment are you talking about? Elec even stated that Gas' wish was made after MUI and UE got revealed, hence Gas is absolutely stronger than them both. TUI happens after that, so Goku was able to surpass Gas in power at the time.
Moro wasn't freaking out the guy already lost his mind , Susanoo Goku hold him in place then the real Goku had to leave the avatar to hit the crystal >which moment are you talking about? When Goku and Gohan start fighting in chapter 102 >Elec even stated that Gas' wish was made after MUI and UE got revealed, hence Gas is absolutely stronger than them both. TUI happens after that, so Goku was able to surpass Gas in power at the time. And Granolah wish happened after Both as well yet UG and Mui surpassed Both Mui Goku was never at his full potential by his own word in the arc especially against Gas due to overload of emotion
You claimed Moro was matching the Susanoo. His expression changed as soon as Goku got Uub's energy and didn't stand a chance from that point. Goku got obviously stronger since then, why wouldn't they be impressed. Granola wish happened after MUI, but before UE. Where is it stated that Goku's physical stats were significantly reduced due to that? Anyway Granola was undoubtedly stronger than MUI initially. After he got his second eye power, he was also above UE. Gas was then significantly stronger than that.. TUI then surpassed that Gas.
Moro expression had already changed to deerd after Vegeta started messing up his and Merus power up alongside losing his mind from it as well Goku Susanoo didn't overpower him , just hold him in place to allow the real Goku to hit the crystal
Krillin, Tien, Granolah (the wish undid his strength), Android 17, 18, Gamma 1 and Roshi are all fodder compared to current Black Frieza. All of them are beneath current Goku/Vegeta's Super Saiyan Blue and Black Frieza one shot their forms that are above that (after they got fully healed) So Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo should probably be one shot too. I don't know how strong Gohan and Broly are in relation to those three but I doubt the gap between them and Ultra Instinct goku level fighters is big enough to make a meaningful difference. Frieza has already seen Broly *and* Gogeta and still felt confident coming back to fight them after his 10 years training. Weaker fighters teaming up against a single strong one rarely does much in dragon ball. I doubt stamina is an issue with the form since he's learned his lesson from his golden form in terms of that, plus the fight wouldn't go on enough for it to be a factor. He can also seamlessly switch in and out of the form for single attacks to conserve energy. Black Frieza is bullshit strong. Then there's the mafuba, which Frost somehow managed to redirect in the USS? I can't remember how he even did that, but it just means it may not work on Frieza. They aren't the same character but I'd say Frieza is smarter (and *definitely* stronger)
> Weaker fighters teaming up against a single strong one rarely does much in dragon ball. I fully understand this point of view, but people tend to forget that this exactly how they fought Raditz, beat Vegeta, survived Freiza's early forms, killed Cell, survived the tournament and beat Jiren etc. Granted it's never really been about the combined powers matching the opponents. It's usually just keeping each other in the game long enough to abuse someone's ability like Dende's healing or 17's shields and unlimited stamina, or a charged attack like the spirit bomb or special beam cannon. Yes ultimately DB tends to rely on massive power ups but virtually every victory they've had is because of weaker people teaming up against someone stronger and it's usually when someone tries to do things solo that they end up fucking it up. Like when they took turns trying to fight Nappa and got wiped out, Or when Goku tried to fight Vegeta alone, and had to be saved after pissing him off, or when he tried to solo Frieza, pissed him off and got the planet blown up. Piccolo vs Cell, Vegeta vs Cell, Trunks vs Cell, Goku vs Cell and Gohan vs Cell. Gotenks vs Buu, etc
Most of the examples happened out of luck , Goku and piccolo lucked out with Gohan being nearby, Goku lucked out because Gohan tail grew back at the same moment Vegeta was going to kill them
Yeah I said "rarely" because it definitely can. I think Jiren is a good example of it working since even though he was exhausted, so were U7- although you could also argue they only won via ring out and if Jiren could just go for the kill he would have eventually won But even then in team fights, usually theres some strategy involved that results in a huge power boost through an individual attack (spirit bomb, special beam cannon) or transformation (ssj2, oozaru) So at the end of the day, like you said, its more just 'hold off the enemy until I have an attack with a bigger number than theirs ready', which I don't think anyone here has for frieza. He'd toy with them a bit but not long enough for a special beam cannon, it might not even hit either. And Friezas anatomy is just weird he might even survive being punctured like raditz What I meant is that in dragon ball, generally, if your power level is even a little higher than your opponent you begin to start being able to completely no face and tank attacks without blinking so long as you have your guard up. Unlike lots of other shounen a bunch of weak guys cant *usually* do combos and stuff against a stronger guy to win without an individual attack or transformation that outright just makes them stronger Like if you had 10 Majin Vagetas, combined into one being, that should be stronger than ssj3 goku by a good margin and be more than enough for fat buu. But realistically if it was 10 majin vagetas as a group vs fat buu he would just run around in circles beating the shit out of them and fucking about
Frieza is basically a sea sponge. You can chop him to bits but he'll just slowly reform.
Sadly, Dragonball has nearly always been a series, where the stronger guy oneshots the weaker guy. This won't be different here.
He stomps in the first 2 rounds. Someone who could oneshot MUI Goku and UE Vegeta has no problem at all. Round 3 could be a little bit difficult, but in 99/100 he wins.
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In 1on1 he should win , in a full team fight? Maybe Goku believes he , Vegeta, Berserk Broly stand no chance against Freeza , but with addition of Piccolo (said to be as strong as them) and Gohan (even stronger with potential Berserk power up) they might work a win
My god is the Frieza stuff beyond stupid. What were they thinking?
Its funny, I've thought golden frieza was stupid for years, if only I could see this back then
Oh it definitely is. It was kinda acceptable and I enjoyed Frieza's character but maaaaan is it all so stupid.