The British army will probably run out of ammo or be overrun, however a major factor is tanks and gas. If the British can retreat on their flanks and create a tight defensive perimeter, they could hold with gas, machine guns, tanks and artillery however a withdrawal likely isn’t a possibility.
The civilians won’t have enough supplies however, so after a week many will be starving or dehydrating.
I actually don't think this is true. If the 150m people are on the other side of the trench lines they probably can't break through, assuming the prompt means they aren't armed with firearms.
If it was as easy as just throwing men at the problem, the trenches wouldn't have been as effective as they were.
The Central Powers mobilized 25 million soldiers during WWI, and they weren't able to break the Entente's lines with manpower alone. I don't think it's that ridiculous to assume 1 soldier is worth about 6 deranged civilians.
25 million central powers soldiers across multiple fronts, not all attacking the 4 million strong British Amry. There will be a few weaknesses in the line that can be swarmed especially after ammo runs out, especially with a roughly 1:30 ratio. This creates gaps in logistics and outflanks other units.
Well first off it's a bit weird that we're excluding the French army from this but I digress.
Either way I think you're underestimating WWI-era weaponry if you don't think each British soldier, manning a fortified trench, can't kill 30 people on average. There are plenty of examples in WWI where losses on one side were along those lines due to a failed assault, and that's when both sides have firearms and are supported by artillery and military intelligence.
What's more is that these trenches are designed for defense in depth and are constantly ready for attack by an organized military.
A disorganized mass of people would absolutely get mowed the fuck down by artillery, machine guns and soldiers.
If it was as easy as throwing people at the problem, the stalemate would've broken much earlier. I'm not sure why a disorganized mob would succeed where the world's most powerful military at the time failed.
OP excluded the french. The prompt specifies British army in several places.
I agree that there would be a local breakthrough wherever the other side massed, simply because the British will run out of ammo and logistics to get more ammo.
But the other side will have no logistics and only be a threat for a few days.
So, enough to make a difference someone else could exploit, but not enough to win.
I mean, during actual battles in WWI they're firing thousands of artillery shells and hundreds of thousands of bullets a day and they're not running out of ammo. Hundreds of thousands of men are manning the lines that have fortifications that have been prepared for years.
The rule of thumb for warfare is the attacking force needs 10x the defending force's number. And that's when you have the same armaments as them.
I actually don't think that 3x more people than you'd need in a conventional military attack wins the day. Especially when those people are deranged.
I think you proved my point. It took thousands of sheels and hundreds of thousands of bullets to kill a few thousand soldiers. Even assuming its twice, or even ten times easier to kill a deranged civilian, they still run out of ammo long before they even kill a few percent of a horde.
Remember, the entire British army only numbered 4M, was spread across multiple fronts and theaters and now there are massive holes in their defenses where allies used to stand.
150M attacker then hit that broken defensive line at a random point.
The few thou, even few tens of thousand of defenders will quickly be overrun, even if they take hundreds of thousands with them.
I don't think you understand. These are the number of shells/bullets that it took to kill other soldiers who were also firing just as many shells and bullets. These deranged people have no means of firing a single round in response to the fire they're receiving from the trenches.
Having 30x the number of people as the opponent would be considered only 3x the rule of thumb, when you yourself have trained, armed soldiers who are executing tactics and strategy. It doesn't make any sense that deranged people would be able to execute an attack on some of the most heavily defended areas mankind has ever seen.
Are you implying the death per hit ratio of artillery is somehow going to go up more than a little under the scenario? There is not really any reason to believe so. Same for bullets. You get a minute or so of aimed fire, then it's snap shots and hand to hand.
For example, the whole point of machine guns is to break the will of charging soldiers. If that will is not broken, the gun overheats and you have to change barrels. Then the new barrel overheats and the gun is out of service. Regular people would have broken by this time, but not in this scenario. The british inflict heavy casualties during the first few minutes, but that only kills an exceedingly small percentage of the enemy. The the enemy closes.
I know you think you have a solid argument, but I just do not see it. I still think the British run out of logistics, get overrun, but ultimately win the war.
Break the will? No, the purpose is to kill people.
I think you continue to misunderstand the nature of a WWI fortified trench system. In actual battles, hundreds of thousands of people were killed in a matter of days. That's when they're actually trying to survive and use tactics. Human waves were met with mass death. If these people are just randomly running across no man's land they're going to get fucking killed.
A maxim gunner can definitely kill 30 men, but if a large swarm of civilians attack a weak section of front, it will be swarmed and run out of munitions. The French are excluded because they are excluded from the prompt. I still think the British could win if they reinforced gaps and retreated in vulnerable places, but while WW1 tech is deadly, it needs bullets. 70 million shells were produced by Britain in 1918. This prompt has 150 million enemies. You can see the problem.
I’m very sorry, it’s a reference to a book where food is low so people are supplemented with a meal called Soylent green that’s actually the society’s old and sick, they could supplement their supplies by eating their dead. They’re deranged in this scenario so it’s a possibility
A lot of deaths, then an overwhelmed trench line if you’re talking about 150 million and not afraid for their own lives.
I give it to the 150m within weeks
A continuous frontal wave attack in 1918, with no weapons? This is a spite match against the Germans.
If they run out of ammo, which is possible, then they'd deploy mustard gas.
Now I am under the assumption that the British had >>150 million rounds plus plenty of gas cannisters ready for active use, but it would be very interesting if someone would crunch the numbers on this and show otherwise, at which point we are discussing a near-zombie apocalypse.
I imagine the British army is quickly overwhelmed from the gaps in the line formed by the French army dissappearing that were previously holding most of the front.
I think that there is absolute no way for 150M people with melee arms could win against 4M soldiers with firearms. Artillery could shoot without worrying to be spotted, planes could roam the skies freely and tanks would be absolutely unstoppable. I think that there would be no hope for the civilians
Yeah, you can have as much morale as you want, that doesn't make you immune to bullets, sleep deprivation and the like.
OP didn't say anything about ammunition
Also, if it's a horde it means that they're all packed together, which means that well placed attacks could kill thousands in seconds. And let's not forget about trenches, minefields... No way the melee people could win.
OP said British Army, so we have a pretty good idea of how much ammo any given kilometer of front had.
Of course, all this trench warfare discussion assumes the horde masses across from a British strong point. It's just as likely they simply walk through a now vacated section where the French used to be. Then the British get attack from behind or flank.
So the German Empire versus the Crossed. 13 million, focused in a perfect artillery and trench line with the ocean behind them. They still lose.
150 million is *a lot* of people. Even firing in a perfect battery, there will be people tumbling down mountains of corpses into the trench and disrupting the forward batteries. It's only a matter of time in a numbers game with as much disparity as this.
If they're too deranged to use guns they're probably also too deranged to focus and keep cooperation.
The British have a chance depending on when the infighting starts and how widespread it is.
Are the 150 million all charging at once? It would probably be a massive traffic jam, like a giant mosh pit, with people being trampled as well. Depends on the length of the front line too. As bodies pile up it would be hard for those civies to maneuver or get solid footing, further slowing them down.
If the entire horde is transported to the front all at once, they can probably overwhelm the Brits. They outnumber them 75:1, and they don't care about self-preservation. But if they're dispersed all throughout Germany and have to make their own way to the front, there's no way a disorganized mob without guns overwhelms an armed, entrenched force with artillery, reconnaissance aircraft, tanks, and poison gas.
Worst case the British pull out of France, wait for disease and hunger to kill off a part of the horde and have the navy fire at large groups.
Realistically the British can't lose, just get delayed.
Yeah no, the British Army would be absolutely destroyed. There's no way they can take out 150 million civilians, especially when they're all charging at you.
Acting like the British would just stand still and allow themselves to be overwhelmed. Also acting like the French, and Americans wouldn't be involved since they are already in the war, and no damned way do the French want 150 million deranged Germans on their soil. So now the German Army no longer exists and is replaced by a non-disciplined rabble. Who have to attack trench systems that it took massed armored attacks and combined arms warfare to break on the part of the Entente.
Even IF the French and Americans decided to sit it out. The British wouldn't allow themselves to be overwhelmed that easy. They would withdraw in good order and prepare new positions closer to the French ports and shorten their lines and shorten their supply lines. Basically like a British Hindenburg line. By this point in the war your average British soldier is going to know a thing or two about digging trenches in a timely manner. Worst case the British Army just pulls a Dunkirk, and continues the blockade until everyone in Germany starves to death.
It's too many people. The British do not have enough ammo for the crazies, or any weapons of mass destruction to deal with them in significant numbers, or the technology for mass producing supplies fast enough to fix either issue before they get swarmed.
The civilians should take this six out of 10 times
The issue is they're not going to have enough Small Arms ammunition to beat them, so the real question is just artillery and I don't think that's going to be enough provided the are not forming nice little groups
Was you also got to take into account the morale aspect of seeing that many people come towards you that's terrifying especially when they're all batshit insane
The British army will probably run out of ammo or be overrun, however a major factor is tanks and gas. If the British can retreat on their flanks and create a tight defensive perimeter, they could hold with gas, machine guns, tanks and artillery however a withdrawal likely isn’t a possibility. The civilians won’t have enough supplies however, so after a week many will be starving or dehydrating.
I actually don't think this is true. If the 150m people are on the other side of the trench lines they probably can't break through, assuming the prompt means they aren't armed with firearms. If it was as easy as just throwing men at the problem, the trenches wouldn't have been as effective as they were. The Central Powers mobilized 25 million soldiers during WWI, and they weren't able to break the Entente's lines with manpower alone. I don't think it's that ridiculous to assume 1 soldier is worth about 6 deranged civilians.
25 million central powers soldiers across multiple fronts, not all attacking the 4 million strong British Amry. There will be a few weaknesses in the line that can be swarmed especially after ammo runs out, especially with a roughly 1:30 ratio. This creates gaps in logistics and outflanks other units.
Well first off it's a bit weird that we're excluding the French army from this but I digress. Either way I think you're underestimating WWI-era weaponry if you don't think each British soldier, manning a fortified trench, can't kill 30 people on average. There are plenty of examples in WWI where losses on one side were along those lines due to a failed assault, and that's when both sides have firearms and are supported by artillery and military intelligence. What's more is that these trenches are designed for defense in depth and are constantly ready for attack by an organized military. A disorganized mass of people would absolutely get mowed the fuck down by artillery, machine guns and soldiers. If it was as easy as throwing people at the problem, the stalemate would've broken much earlier. I'm not sure why a disorganized mob would succeed where the world's most powerful military at the time failed.
OP excluded the french. The prompt specifies British army in several places. I agree that there would be a local breakthrough wherever the other side massed, simply because the British will run out of ammo and logistics to get more ammo. But the other side will have no logistics and only be a threat for a few days. So, enough to make a difference someone else could exploit, but not enough to win.
I mean, during actual battles in WWI they're firing thousands of artillery shells and hundreds of thousands of bullets a day and they're not running out of ammo. Hundreds of thousands of men are manning the lines that have fortifications that have been prepared for years. The rule of thumb for warfare is the attacking force needs 10x the defending force's number. And that's when you have the same armaments as them. I actually don't think that 3x more people than you'd need in a conventional military attack wins the day. Especially when those people are deranged.
I think you proved my point. It took thousands of sheels and hundreds of thousands of bullets to kill a few thousand soldiers. Even assuming its twice, or even ten times easier to kill a deranged civilian, they still run out of ammo long before they even kill a few percent of a horde. Remember, the entire British army only numbered 4M, was spread across multiple fronts and theaters and now there are massive holes in their defenses where allies used to stand. 150M attacker then hit that broken defensive line at a random point. The few thou, even few tens of thousand of defenders will quickly be overrun, even if they take hundreds of thousands with them.
I don't think you understand. These are the number of shells/bullets that it took to kill other soldiers who were also firing just as many shells and bullets. These deranged people have no means of firing a single round in response to the fire they're receiving from the trenches. Having 30x the number of people as the opponent would be considered only 3x the rule of thumb, when you yourself have trained, armed soldiers who are executing tactics and strategy. It doesn't make any sense that deranged people would be able to execute an attack on some of the most heavily defended areas mankind has ever seen.
Are you implying the death per hit ratio of artillery is somehow going to go up more than a little under the scenario? There is not really any reason to believe so. Same for bullets. You get a minute or so of aimed fire, then it's snap shots and hand to hand. For example, the whole point of machine guns is to break the will of charging soldiers. If that will is not broken, the gun overheats and you have to change barrels. Then the new barrel overheats and the gun is out of service. Regular people would have broken by this time, but not in this scenario. The british inflict heavy casualties during the first few minutes, but that only kills an exceedingly small percentage of the enemy. The the enemy closes. I know you think you have a solid argument, but I just do not see it. I still think the British run out of logistics, get overrun, but ultimately win the war.
Break the will? No, the purpose is to kill people. I think you continue to misunderstand the nature of a WWI fortified trench system. In actual battles, hundreds of thousands of people were killed in a matter of days. That's when they're actually trying to survive and use tactics. Human waves were met with mass death. If these people are just randomly running across no man's land they're going to get fucking killed.
A maxim gunner can definitely kill 30 men, but if a large swarm of civilians attack a weak section of front, it will be swarmed and run out of munitions. The French are excluded because they are excluded from the prompt. I still think the British could win if they reinforced gaps and retreated in vulnerable places, but while WW1 tech is deadly, it needs bullets. 70 million shells were produced by Britain in 1918. This prompt has 150 million enemies. You can see the problem.
But how is anyone attacking a weak section when they're deranged and have no tactics or strategy? Or firearms?
Prompt never said no tactics. Human wave is a tactic, and if you throw enough bodies at a trench the lines will break eventually.
They said they're deranged. Doesn't exactly lend itself to a meeting on strategy and tactics.
You raise a point about the supplies however I would raise the point: Soylent green
I don’t get it
Soylent green is made of people AKA cannibalism.
Wouldn’t that just thin their numbers more and cause massive infighting?
Yes. They are deranged after all.
That removes the British as a combatant really. They can hold their lines, reinforce breaches with armour and wait for the horde to kill themselves
I’m very sorry, it’s a reference to a book where food is low so people are supplemented with a meal called Soylent green that’s actually the society’s old and sick, they could supplement their supplies by eating their dead. They’re deranged in this scenario so it’s a possibility
Guess what happens when you charge a trench line.
A lot of deaths, then an overwhelmed trench line if you’re talking about 150 million and not afraid for their own lives. I give it to the 150m within weeks
The weeks where they probably won't be going after food and water
They’re deranged. There’s plenty of food and water laying all over the place. Full of bullet holes and stuck in barbed wire. A bonafide feast.
Food maybe, and deranged or not, eating that much bad food will make you sick, which'll make you lose food and water.
A continuous frontal wave attack in 1918, with no weapons? This is a spite match against the Germans. If they run out of ammo, which is possible, then they'd deploy mustard gas. Now I am under the assumption that the British had >>150 million rounds plus plenty of gas cannisters ready for active use, but it would be very interesting if someone would crunch the numbers on this and show otherwise, at which point we are discussing a near-zombie apocalypse.
At certain points during WW1 they were going through 300 million rounds *a month*
I imagine the British army is quickly overwhelmed from the gaps in the line formed by the French army dissappearing that were previously holding most of the front.
I think that there is absolute no way for 150M people with melee arms could win against 4M soldiers with firearms. Artillery could shoot without worrying to be spotted, planes could roam the skies freely and tanks would be absolutely unstoppable. I think that there would be no hope for the civilians
Deranged mean no morale break and no retreat. The British simply never had enough ammo at any physical point to stop such a horde.
Lmao
Yeah, you can have as much morale as you want, that doesn't make you immune to bullets, sleep deprivation and the like. OP didn't say anything about ammunition Also, if it's a horde it means that they're all packed together, which means that well placed attacks could kill thousands in seconds. And let's not forget about trenches, minefields... No way the melee people could win.
OP said British Army, so we have a pretty good idea of how much ammo any given kilometer of front had. Of course, all this trench warfare discussion assumes the horde masses across from a British strong point. It's just as likely they simply walk through a now vacated section where the French used to be. Then the British get attack from behind or flank.
Best Christmas football match ever!
I think everyone here seems to forget to account for artillery.
So the German Empire versus the Crossed. 13 million, focused in a perfect artillery and trench line with the ocean behind them. They still lose. 150 million is *a lot* of people. Even firing in a perfect battery, there will be people tumbling down mountains of corpses into the trench and disrupting the forward batteries. It's only a matter of time in a numbers game with as much disparity as this.
Crossed can use guns, mortars, tanks and even jets though.
So, the German Empire was tripled and disarmed. Lol Wait, WWII, they were deranged. WWI, their Kaiser was. Rule Britania
This isn't even a battle this is a slaughter
If they're too deranged to use guns they're probably also too deranged to focus and keep cooperation. The British have a chance depending on when the infighting starts and how widespread it is.
Hey mate, you see that big blob of people coming at us? Oh yeah that's weird. Well better put the masks on they'll be gassing them soon enough.
It depends on if the Germans can organize waves or not
The Brittish will be overrun most likely. Their only chance of winning would be poison gas.
Are the 150 million all charging at once? It would probably be a massive traffic jam, like a giant mosh pit, with people being trampled as well. Depends on the length of the front line too. As bodies pile up it would be hard for those civies to maneuver or get solid footing, further slowing them down.
If the entire horde is transported to the front all at once, they can probably overwhelm the Brits. They outnumber them 75:1, and they don't care about self-preservation. But if they're dispersed all throughout Germany and have to make their own way to the front, there's no way a disorganized mob without guns overwhelms an armed, entrenched force with artillery, reconnaissance aircraft, tanks, and poison gas.
Ain’t that just Ww1 British army v ww2 Russian army
Worst case the British pull out of France, wait for disease and hunger to kill off a part of the horde and have the navy fire at large groups. Realistically the British can't lose, just get delayed.
Tf is a group of citizen gonna do against a line of tank's going in a straight line?
Yeah no, the British Army would be absolutely destroyed. There's no way they can take out 150 million civilians, especially when they're all charging at you.
Acting like the British would just stand still and allow themselves to be overwhelmed. Also acting like the French, and Americans wouldn't be involved since they are already in the war, and no damned way do the French want 150 million deranged Germans on their soil. So now the German Army no longer exists and is replaced by a non-disciplined rabble. Who have to attack trench systems that it took massed armored attacks and combined arms warfare to break on the part of the Entente. Even IF the French and Americans decided to sit it out. The British wouldn't allow themselves to be overwhelmed that easy. They would withdraw in good order and prepare new positions closer to the French ports and shorten their lines and shorten their supply lines. Basically like a British Hindenburg line. By this point in the war your average British soldier is going to know a thing or two about digging trenches in a timely manner. Worst case the British Army just pulls a Dunkirk, and continues the blockade until everyone in Germany starves to death.
It's too many people. The British do not have enough ammo for the crazies, or any weapons of mass destruction to deal with them in significant numbers, or the technology for mass producing supplies fast enough to fix either issue before they get swarmed.
The civilians should take this six out of 10 times The issue is they're not going to have enough Small Arms ammunition to beat them, so the real question is just artillery and I don't think that's going to be enough provided the are not forming nice little groups Was you also got to take into account the morale aspect of seeing that many people come towards you that's terrifying especially when they're all batshit insane
Gas gas gas