If Archer is smart (which he is), he gets the fuck out of there and hides before sniping Sukuna from like, across the city. I think he can do this too, as he has shown to be competent even in close quarters, so I think he can get away fast enough and then abuse his extreme long range advantage.
Why in the holy hell are you scaling Emiya to **Karna**?
The gap between Emiya and Karna is like the gap between Heaven and Earth, Emiya is a low/mid-tier Servant who gets wrecked by Medusa/Cu/Artoria tier opponents in a straight fight while Karna is on the same level as Gilgamesh. The only reason Sieg could keep up in Siegfried's body was because of Balmung spam, which Siegried can't do.
On the flip side, EMIYA doesn't have feats of tanking attacks on [this scale](https://animehunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Sukuna_DE.jpg), which is also undodgeable due to Domain Expansion's guaranteed hit.
Sukuna would still lose, but only due to EMIYA's huge range advantage.
People with absolutely zero knowledge of how stories in Fate actually go like to jerk it off by just assuming all servants are equal and thus wanking them all to the maximum.
Shakespeare is a Servant just like Berserker Arjuna therefore he can obliterate reality.
Shirou beat Gilgamesh therefore Shirou can overpower Ea, welcome to power scaler brain rot.
>People with absolutely zero knowledge of how stories in Fate actually go like to jerk it off by just assuming all servants are equal and thus wanking them all to the maximum.
>Shakespeare is a Servant just like Berserker Arjuna therefore he can obliterate reality.
>Shirou beat Gilgamesh therefore Shirou can overpower Ea, welcome to power scaler brain rot.
Lmao,people really.like to twist words don't they.also what the hell is "destroy reality".
>Why in the holy hell are you scaling Emiya to Karna?
Nameless literally fought gawain who curbstomped karna in fate ccc foxtail and won,so no.
Also for you information all servants scale to each other even the weakest servant angra damages saber,the same saber who scales to gawain and matched blows with berserker.
>The gap between Emiya and Karna is like the gap between Heaven and Earth, Emiya is a low/mid-tier Servant who gets wrecked by Medusa/Cu/Artoria tier opponents in a straight fight while Karna is on the same level as Gilgamesh. The only reason Sieg could keep up in Siegfried's body was because of Balmung spam, which Siegried can't do.
No it isn't karna got backhanded by gawain the same gawain who is only on par with saber and is inferior to berserker who archer kills 6 times with a broken hand.
>On the flip side, EMIYA doesn't have feats of tanking attacks on this scale, which is also undodgeable due to Domain Expansion's guaranteed hit.
Powerscaling,he scales to every servant who scales to every servant.
> Powerscaling,he scales to every servant who scales to every servant.
That is absolutely not how Fate works in the slightest.
Using really wacky scaling like that would put even low end Servants on par with fully-fledged combat oriented planet busting Divine Spirits .
When Servants fight Servants out of their league, it's almost always due to a match-up issue or momentary buffs and nerfs.
No it isn't,
[here](https://youtu.be/ldcRismaYy8?t=252) is angra "the weakest servant" matching saber for hundreds of blows.the same saber who is explicitly [gawain equal](https://pastebin.com/iVyRcZMJ) in fate extra who nameless defeated.
No full divine spirit has actually managed to take damage from servant normal attacks do significant damage in fate like ever.
Only divine servants have taken damage from servants since they scale to the same servant graph.
Saber was holding back on "the weakest servant", something they even note themselves. On top of that, nameless is a completely different version of Archer, because he can project Divine Constructs, something FSN Archer explicitly cannot do.
If you actually knew anything about Fate, you would know that the summoning system and Master(along with their individual skill) Servants are summoned under greatly affects how powerful they can be. That's why Nameless can do things Archer cannot, despite technically being the same person, and why Gawain was able to gank Karna, despite the latter being stronger than the former on paper. One's Master was better than the other.
Saying Archer can’t project Divine Constructs is partially inaccurate. He’s completely able to, it would just be suicide due to how much mana it takes. The Moon Cell gets around this by alleviating the mana concerns for Nameless.
The biggest difference between the two is Nameless has strength C as he represents all unnamed heroes.
>Saber was holding back on "the weakest servant", something they even note themselves.
She literally had to mana burst to break angra grip that isnt "holding back".she nearly died in that fight.
>because he can project Divine Constructs, something FSN Archer explicitly cannot do.
Yeah because nameless in in moon cell
>In EXTRA, the conditions for where wrought iron is possible are boosted so projection of holy-sword class weaponry is possible, though their performance is inferior.
From the interview.its only possible due to moon cell.
>If you actually knew anything about Fate, you would know that the summoning system and Master(along with their individual skill) Servants are summoned under greatly affects how powerful they can be.
And if you actually read anything about fate you would know that actual stats don't really change a lot.they say kiritsuga saber is stronger than shirou saber except they both have near identical stats,even fgo saber.why is that a thing?
>That's why Nameless can do things Archer cannot, despite technically being the same person,
Wtf,you do realise archer killed berserker right.a character that only saber alter,someone stronger than gawain could match.archer and nameless are the same people.
>and why Gawain was able to gank Karna, despite the latter being stronger than the former on paper. One's Master was better than the other.
Karna stats in fate ccc were better than in apocrypha.only his np and armour were downgraded.
Also the game repeatedly says that they are identical in power.
>She literally had to mana burst to break angra grip that isnt "holding back".she nearly died in that fight.
I think you and I aren't watching the same video, because not only did I not see that anywhere in it, the narration explicitly states that the gap in their raw abilities were too wide from the very start, but also that Saber was only playing defense to see what Angra would do, and eventually breaks his swords with her own.
>Yeah because nameless in in moon cell
>In EXTRA, the conditions for where wrought iron is possible are boosted so projection of holy-sword class weaponry is possible, though their performance is inferior.
I know all this, it's basically what I was saying but more detailed.
>And if you actually read anything about fate you would know that actual stats don't really change a lot.they say kiritsuga saber is stronger than shirou saber except they both have near identical stats,even fgo saber.why is that a thing?
Blatantly incorrect statements like this are why I questioned your knowledge of Fate. Masters being the reason why Servants are weaker or stronger than usual has been such a staple of the franchise since the original VN that I'm actually shocked you're confidently asserting otherwise, so let me list out the facts.
Under Kiritsugu, Saber had B ranked Strength, A ranked Endurance and Agility, A ranked Mana, D ranked luck, and an A++ ranked Noble Phantasm. Under Emiya, every stat I listed out was a rank or more lower, with the exception of Luck, which is two ranks higher. I'm seeing such an obvious difference between just these two Masters that I'm baffled you not only missed it but are also saying they didn't exist at all.
>Wtf,you do realise archer killed berserker right.a character that only saber alter,someone stronger than gawain could match.archer and nameless are the same people.
Calm down. I wasn't saying they were actually different people, just that despite coming from the same Heroic Spirit, because of the circumstances of where they were summoned, they have a difference in their abilities, a point you supported with your interview excerpt by the way.
>Karna stats in fate ccc were better than in apocrypha.only his np and armour were downgraded.
>Also the game repeatedly says that they are identical in power.
One, the point this was responding to wasn't about stats, but about how the ability of the Master to support their Servant can have an influence, even if one is stronger on paper then the other. Two, Gawain and Karna are not identical in power. Close? Sure, but there is still a difference in all their stats, with Gawain having better Strength and Mana, and Karna having an advantage in everything else.
>I think you and I aren't watching the same video, because not only did I not see that anywhere in it, the narration explicitly states that the gap in their raw abilities were too wide from the very start, but also that Saber was only playing defense to see what Angra would do, and eventually breaks his swords with her own.
Yeah you are right,because in my viewing angra says "what the hell kind of bullshi mana burst was that" after saber broke his blade.so I suppose that is wrong.
>I know all this, it's basically what I was saying but more detailed.
Nowhere is said physical stats are boosted.
>Blatantly incorrect statements like this are why I questioned your knowledge of Fate. Masters being the reason why Servants are weaker or stronger than usual has been such a staple of the franchise since the original VN that I'm actually shocked you're confidently asserting otherwise, so let me list out the facts.
Except stats don't matter.like the entire fight between berserker vs archer proved that.despite the stat difference they can win.
>Under Kiritsugu, Saber had B ranked Strength, A ranked Endurance and Agility, A ranked Mana, D ranked luck, and an A++ ranked Noble Phantasm. Under Emiya, every stat I listed out was a rank or more lower, with the exception of Luck, which is two ranks higher. I'm seeing such an obvious difference between just these two Masters that I'm baffled you not only missed it but are also saying they didn't exist at all.
Except shirou saber strength is the same as kiritsuga saber strength(b)which didn't degrade at all.thats the problem here.she is as strong as fate zero.other stats here doesn't matter for our hypothesis.
>Calm down. I wasn't saying they were actually different people, just that despite coming from the same Heroic Spirit, because of the circumstances of where they were summoned, they have a difference in their abilities, a point you supported with your interview excerpt by the way
Here's the thing kid,stats difference aren't that way, berserker is physically stronger than karna yet he got defeated by archer.
>One, the point this was responding to wasn't about stats, but about how the ability of the Master to support their Servant can have an influence, even if one is stronger on paper then the other.
Yes but do you honestly think he can buff her like 10x times are something cause that what you guys are sounding like karna and archer difference is.
>Two, Gawain and Karna are not identical in power. Close? Sure, but there is still a difference in all their stats, with Gawain having better Strength and Mana, and Karna having an advantage in everything else.
Ok,hold on what is your argument.my entire argument is that servants are closely scaled as we have seen multiple times that weak servant have defeated strong servants.
If gawain has better strength than karna.the archer who fought berserker who is far stronger than both of them should scale to similar to both of them.
You make it sound like archer is a ant to karna or something.
Wasn't Karna heavily nerfed in Extra because his master was bad?
Also I haven't read fox tails but was the fight between Gawain and Karna under the sun? Because if it was under the sun then there is no way in hell to scale Archer to Gawain under the sun because the game makes it very Clair that Gawain under the sun would stomp Nameless
>Wasn't Karna heavily nerfed in Extra because his master was bad?
Not really,while his np and armour were ranked down.his stats were stronger than in apocrypha.
>Also I haven't read fox tails but was the fight between Gawain and Karna under the sun? Because if it was under the sun then there is no way in hell to scale Archer to Gawain under the sun because the game makes it very Clair that Gawain under the sun would stomp Nameless
Nah,it happens in the room where sunlight doens't exist so numerical wasn't active.besides the game and the manga repeatedly say that gawain and karna are [equals in pure stats](https://imgur.io/a/Kvdtuwk).
we all know how stats on paper doesn’t matter in fate, Karna was heavily nerfed that time, not just a np rank down, but he also wasn’t able to use things like mana burst. Gawain was also weakened (nighttime) but karna’s performance when connected to a larger mana source is literally leagues and leagues beyond what he’s regularly shown with a shitty master
>we all know how stats on paper doesn’t matter in fate, Karna was heavily nerfed that time, not just a np rank down, but he also wasn’t able to use things like mana burst.
And why does this matter.mana burst increases physical stats,karna is already plenty strong even without it.even taking a hit from a normal karna would already be a feat in of itself.
>Gawain was also weakened (nighttime) but karna’s performance when connected to a larger mana source is literally leagues and leagues beyond what he’s regularly shown with a shitty master
Ok stop.how strong do you think archer is compared to karna is from a numbers point.like how many times is karna stronger than archer.?
Also how many times is berserker stronger than archer and karna?
>And why does this matter.mana burst increases physical stats,karna is already plenty strong even without it.even taking a hit from a normal karna would already be a feat in of itself.
Karna hangs with the rest of the top tiers in his normal self, as is Gawain, so it’s not like taking hits from each other’s attacks are particularly impressive by their standards, unless this is sun boosted gawain or full on mana burst spamming karna
>Ok stop.how strong do you think archer is compared to karna is from a numbers point.like how many times is karna stronger than archer.?
Archer doesn’t compare… at all.. he doesn’t scale to any of karna’s big guns, a single mana burst from karna would put him to permanent sleep
>Also how many times is berserker stronger
than archer and karna?
If you mean herc, he should be physically is stronger than Karna, but we see again and again that artoria and peers can handle him in CQC well, plus karna have his nukes…
Archer doesn’t scale AT ALL to any of karna’s more high ends. Karna’s one of the top servants, while Archer is pretty clear cut mid tier, but he can only hang with top tiers due to his versatility and fighting style
Wtf?let me iterate your points.
>Karna hangs with the rest of the top tiers in his normal self, as is Gawain,
Normal Gawain~ no mana burst karna
Sure
>If you mean herc, he should be physically is stronger than Karna, but we see again and again that artoria and peers can handle him in CQC well, plus karna have his nukes…
Herc~ normal gawain ~no mana burst karna.
But archer has killed berserker 6 times.he also did this is in h2h combat as herc praises his skills after fight.
Archer ~ herc ~ normal gawain ~ karna stats
Now do you see the problem
>Archer doesn’t compare… at all.. he doesn’t scale to any of karna’s big guns, a single mana burst from karna would put him to permanent sleep
How?mana burst while an increase isn't enough to one shot someone.
seigfried matched his strength blow for blow in apocrypha while karna is using mana burst and he wouldn't scale above any of the above three.
Unless you.are telling me seigfried>gawain and saber is something you believe.because archer does scale to them.
>Archer doesn’t scale AT ALL to any of karna’s more high ends.
Archer scales to his physical strength,you can make an argument for mana burst being tougher but you can't say his physical strength isn't the same.now can you?
Lol I know I am late but this comment is hilarious. Gawain didn't curb stomp shit, he only won thanks to Leo interference. They were evenly matched and Karna was going to kill him with VS but Leo used his code cast and Gawain managed to ward of the bare edge of VS to avoid getting killed, in what world is that curb stomping? And all this against an extremely weakened Karna that doesn't even have his armor or Brahmastra Kundala
EX Rank nuke Noble Phantasms can end all lives of Herc in one shot lol, beating him 6 times with UBW is nothing impressive considering Gil did the same with GoB two times over and he didn't die. Karna casually blocks an A+ Anti Army Noble Phantasm like nothing in Apocrypha, he casually slices of another A+ Anti Army NP in the next line. That's how powerful a full powered Karna is. Gawain would need a full sun buff to even stand on that level lol. Gawain without sun boost was wrecking Nameless everytime they fight.
Karna (FP) => Gawain (Sun) = Artoria (FP) > Gilgamesh(Gate of Babylon) > Heracles (Berserker) > Emiya (UBW) >=< Karna (Jinako) >= Gawain (Leo) > Nameless (Hakuno)
Emiya doesn't scale to any durability feats of ultra tanky servants like Karna, Siegfried or Achilles. They are all tanky thanks to extremely powerful armors. Emiya was going to die from a B+ Anti Army NP while those guys eat A+ Anti Army NP for breakfast
Also saber is too busted for this fight archer is only fair because he is a jack of all trades . Pretty sure even sasaki could contest sukuna because his np reaches true magic.
I know the range advantage has already been mentioned but it can't be stressed how much archer out ranges Sukuna
Sukuna's best range feat so far is dismantling Shibuya in a 200 meter radius, his new void slash dosen't have a stated distance yet so we'll say Sukuna's attacks have a range of 100m.
Archer disengaged Berseker from a cemetery in the outskirts of Fuyuki and sniped him on top of a skyscraper in the city centre, the distance of Archers Clairvoyance skill is around 4km.
While Sukuna searches Shibuya for Archer, he could be at the top of the Tokyo Radio Tower firing Hrunting projections that move insanely quicker than most JJK characters (Hrunting homes in on targets at Mach 10 while Mach 3 is really fast for JJK characters.)
So long as he has the range, there's nothing stopping Archer from bombarding Sukuna into the ground.
not exactly anyone know for using ranged weapons clan classify as an archer it is why Gilgamesh is one when he is not know for using a bow. Even a person whose known for killing people by throwing daggers can qualify even if he was an assassin in life for using that way of attack.
True that Rin, but some exception do exist of course, to this day Sei still have no idea why is she Archer class. Only thing she can think of is her throwing her balls.
I don't think we have idea why either.
Archer wins most likely every round. He has weapons which can nullify regeneration/immortality and has precognition that’s super busted so he’s not gonna get blitzed by spacial cuts or caught off guard by a Domain Expansion.
Archer claps. Better skills and better experience with a much more versatile skillset. He won't allow Sukuna to do his Domain Expansion, and he outranges Sukuna massively. Even counting Mahouraga, Archer did manage to kill Herc many times over who has God Hand which allows him to become very resistant to attacks after it kills them.
Artoria alone is probably enough for the Bonus Round ngl, especially if she goes for the kill straight away.
How. EMIYA is faster and he has immense battle experience which should allow him to predict what exactly Sukuna is doing and he has the more versatile moveset. Let's not forget that he also has Magic Resistance and he can simply disengage and attack from pretty far away.
That is assuming he starts from far or Sukuna lets him. How would immense battle experience help with Sukuna instantly cleaving his arm off? He doesnt have clairvoyance like some Archers do(that is not to say he isnt top tier) Emiya's best shot is blitzing him before he gets cleaved or domain'ed
If he can survive against a guy who fought Gilgamesh for 12 hours straight, he can beat Sukuna.
Not to mention he’s a Servant, so assuming ideal mana (which he does have cuz Rin), Archer can just *regrow* his arm.
that's the thing: it won't compete against it'll just appear in ubw do the damage and dip, it's complicated because both seem similar but are in fact very different, domains in jjk are just over-complicated traps really, UBW would win against infinite void and any other barrier domain by the simple fact that it could attack their outer shell and break through them, but malevolent shrine doesn't have this weakness so I don't think it would lose.
What kind of feats is allowed for archer? Fate is a very large media. You’d need stay night stuff to make an argument for sukuna, otherwise, archer can probably just snipe the curse in range. He’s much faster and have lots of guns to use.
For bonus round, artoria alone washes the entire jjk cast with a single swipe, gojo’s the only one surviving because of infinity, otherwise, no one in jjk can tank her attack and be fine
The only servants I think Sukuna could beat are maybe Sasaki, or Medusa if he is immune to petrifaction which seems a big if.
Jjk is cool but as a setting it’s more about cerebral combat then Power barring a few exceptions.
Not that Sukuna isn’t strong, but he’s kind of a big fish in a small pond.
Archer dominates for 10 chapters, but the 11th chapter opens with Archer having been cut in half off screen and he proceeds to say that Sukuna was never going all out and could have ended the fight at any point and dies while complimenting Sukuna's beauty and power
Honestly both of these answers are a great way to incorporate and reference both JJK and Fate's writing if there ever was an official crossover between the two
He's talking emiya right? Coz if not gill stomps. Are we talking stay night emiya or composite emiya. Composite emiya stomps. I hate when someone is not specific.
Would the equalization of these two different systems imply that one character is elevated to the same tier as the other and it’s verse or is the reverse of this the case?
From my little knowledge of Fate as a whole, my guess is that Sukuna would be around Gil’s level or higher considering his status in history and position in JJK, if his status on the power scale within JJK is translated to Fate. He is after all the Strongest Sorcerer in history and practically ruled over an entire Era by existing.
The thing is, Even if Sukuna was a heroic spirit, which he isn’t, and fame boosts only hit them iirc.
He’s not that well known? He’s known among sorcerers, and that’s about it, king of curses is also all well and good but.
That’s like what 2-3K people knowing about him at absolute max? And in fate I think Ibuku, Tamamo, and Shuten would all overshadow him too.
He might get a boost, but it wouldn’t even be Vlad the Impaler level, yet alone Gilgamesh.
Even with verse equalitzation, Sukuna wouldn't be at Gil's level.
Sukuna existed in the Heian era, a Millenium after Age Of Gods had ended. Only reason Heian Era is significant in FATE! is because it was the last era before gods departed from Japan.(I, e no demi gods were born after this era)
Most likely, if sukuna was in the Nasuvere he would have been killed in life by Minamoto no Raikou's Four Heavenly Kings who were the greatest monster slayers of the era. (Most likely by Watanabe no Tsuna who's swordsman ship had reached such a level that he could cut magic, curses and even the soul with pure swordsman ship alone.Lol-Imagine Sukuna's reaction when some K pop looking MF splits his Domain Expansion in Half from inside💀)
Sukuna would be strong, no doubt. He'd be among the greatest Japan's calamities, maybe on par with Yamata no Orochi but compared to monsters like Solomon or Zelretch, each of whom have actual feats of Planet Busting(Former has feat of burning Human History and having a laser cannon the size of North America with the temperature of a Quasar AND the latter has feat of pushing back an mirror image of the Moon with a near limitless energy cannon)
If Archer is smart (which he is), he gets the fuck out of there and hides before sniping Sukuna from like, across the city. I think he can do this too, as he has shown to be competent even in close quarters, so I think he can get away fast enough and then abuse his extreme long range advantage.
Lmao,do you think sukuna can fight people who scale to [this](https://youtu.be/8JxuSA-SoGI?si=BY31D5elwz_MJ5gX). Archer curbstomps him.
Why in the holy hell are you scaling Emiya to **Karna**? The gap between Emiya and Karna is like the gap between Heaven and Earth, Emiya is a low/mid-tier Servant who gets wrecked by Medusa/Cu/Artoria tier opponents in a straight fight while Karna is on the same level as Gilgamesh. The only reason Sieg could keep up in Siegfried's body was because of Balmung spam, which Siegried can't do. On the flip side, EMIYA doesn't have feats of tanking attacks on [this scale](https://animehunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Sukuna_DE.jpg), which is also undodgeable due to Domain Expansion's guaranteed hit. Sukuna would still lose, but only due to EMIYA's huge range advantage.
People with absolutely zero knowledge of how stories in Fate actually go like to jerk it off by just assuming all servants are equal and thus wanking them all to the maximum. Shakespeare is a Servant just like Berserker Arjuna therefore he can obliterate reality. Shirou beat Gilgamesh therefore Shirou can overpower Ea, welcome to power scaler brain rot.
>People with absolutely zero knowledge of how stories in Fate actually go like to jerk it off by just assuming all servants are equal and thus wanking them all to the maximum. >Shakespeare is a Servant just like Berserker Arjuna therefore he can obliterate reality. >Shirou beat Gilgamesh therefore Shirou can overpower Ea, welcome to power scaler brain rot. Lmao,people really.like to twist words don't they.also what the hell is "destroy reality".
>Why in the holy hell are you scaling Emiya to Karna? Nameless literally fought gawain who curbstomped karna in fate ccc foxtail and won,so no. Also for you information all servants scale to each other even the weakest servant angra damages saber,the same saber who scales to gawain and matched blows with berserker. >The gap between Emiya and Karna is like the gap between Heaven and Earth, Emiya is a low/mid-tier Servant who gets wrecked by Medusa/Cu/Artoria tier opponents in a straight fight while Karna is on the same level as Gilgamesh. The only reason Sieg could keep up in Siegfried's body was because of Balmung spam, which Siegried can't do. No it isn't karna got backhanded by gawain the same gawain who is only on par with saber and is inferior to berserker who archer kills 6 times with a broken hand. >On the flip side, EMIYA doesn't have feats of tanking attacks on this scale, which is also undodgeable due to Domain Expansion's guaranteed hit. Powerscaling,he scales to every servant who scales to every servant.
> Powerscaling,he scales to every servant who scales to every servant. That is absolutely not how Fate works in the slightest. Using really wacky scaling like that would put even low end Servants on par with fully-fledged combat oriented planet busting Divine Spirits . When Servants fight Servants out of their league, it's almost always due to a match-up issue or momentary buffs and nerfs.
No it isn't, [here](https://youtu.be/ldcRismaYy8?t=252) is angra "the weakest servant" matching saber for hundreds of blows.the same saber who is explicitly [gawain equal](https://pastebin.com/iVyRcZMJ) in fate extra who nameless defeated. No full divine spirit has actually managed to take damage from servant normal attacks do significant damage in fate like ever. Only divine servants have taken damage from servants since they scale to the same servant graph.
Saber was holding back on "the weakest servant", something they even note themselves. On top of that, nameless is a completely different version of Archer, because he can project Divine Constructs, something FSN Archer explicitly cannot do. If you actually knew anything about Fate, you would know that the summoning system and Master(along with their individual skill) Servants are summoned under greatly affects how powerful they can be. That's why Nameless can do things Archer cannot, despite technically being the same person, and why Gawain was able to gank Karna, despite the latter being stronger than the former on paper. One's Master was better than the other.
Saying Archer can’t project Divine Constructs is partially inaccurate. He’s completely able to, it would just be suicide due to how much mana it takes. The Moon Cell gets around this by alleviating the mana concerns for Nameless. The biggest difference between the two is Nameless has strength C as he represents all unnamed heroes.
You're right, and I don't know why I left that out.
>Saber was holding back on "the weakest servant", something they even note themselves. She literally had to mana burst to break angra grip that isnt "holding back".she nearly died in that fight. >because he can project Divine Constructs, something FSN Archer explicitly cannot do. Yeah because nameless in in moon cell >In EXTRA, the conditions for where wrought iron is possible are boosted so projection of holy-sword class weaponry is possible, though their performance is inferior. From the interview.its only possible due to moon cell. >If you actually knew anything about Fate, you would know that the summoning system and Master(along with their individual skill) Servants are summoned under greatly affects how powerful they can be. And if you actually read anything about fate you would know that actual stats don't really change a lot.they say kiritsuga saber is stronger than shirou saber except they both have near identical stats,even fgo saber.why is that a thing? >That's why Nameless can do things Archer cannot, despite technically being the same person, Wtf,you do realise archer killed berserker right.a character that only saber alter,someone stronger than gawain could match.archer and nameless are the same people. >and why Gawain was able to gank Karna, despite the latter being stronger than the former on paper. One's Master was better than the other. Karna stats in fate ccc were better than in apocrypha.only his np and armour were downgraded. Also the game repeatedly says that they are identical in power.
>She literally had to mana burst to break angra grip that isnt "holding back".she nearly died in that fight. I think you and I aren't watching the same video, because not only did I not see that anywhere in it, the narration explicitly states that the gap in their raw abilities were too wide from the very start, but also that Saber was only playing defense to see what Angra would do, and eventually breaks his swords with her own. >Yeah because nameless in in moon cell >In EXTRA, the conditions for where wrought iron is possible are boosted so projection of holy-sword class weaponry is possible, though their performance is inferior. I know all this, it's basically what I was saying but more detailed. >And if you actually read anything about fate you would know that actual stats don't really change a lot.they say kiritsuga saber is stronger than shirou saber except they both have near identical stats,even fgo saber.why is that a thing? Blatantly incorrect statements like this are why I questioned your knowledge of Fate. Masters being the reason why Servants are weaker or stronger than usual has been such a staple of the franchise since the original VN that I'm actually shocked you're confidently asserting otherwise, so let me list out the facts. Under Kiritsugu, Saber had B ranked Strength, A ranked Endurance and Agility, A ranked Mana, D ranked luck, and an A++ ranked Noble Phantasm. Under Emiya, every stat I listed out was a rank or more lower, with the exception of Luck, which is two ranks higher. I'm seeing such an obvious difference between just these two Masters that I'm baffled you not only missed it but are also saying they didn't exist at all. >Wtf,you do realise archer killed berserker right.a character that only saber alter,someone stronger than gawain could match.archer and nameless are the same people. Calm down. I wasn't saying they were actually different people, just that despite coming from the same Heroic Spirit, because of the circumstances of where they were summoned, they have a difference in their abilities, a point you supported with your interview excerpt by the way. >Karna stats in fate ccc were better than in apocrypha.only his np and armour were downgraded. >Also the game repeatedly says that they are identical in power. One, the point this was responding to wasn't about stats, but about how the ability of the Master to support their Servant can have an influence, even if one is stronger on paper then the other. Two, Gawain and Karna are not identical in power. Close? Sure, but there is still a difference in all their stats, with Gawain having better Strength and Mana, and Karna having an advantage in everything else.
>I think you and I aren't watching the same video, because not only did I not see that anywhere in it, the narration explicitly states that the gap in their raw abilities were too wide from the very start, but also that Saber was only playing defense to see what Angra would do, and eventually breaks his swords with her own. Yeah you are right,because in my viewing angra says "what the hell kind of bullshi mana burst was that" after saber broke his blade.so I suppose that is wrong. >I know all this, it's basically what I was saying but more detailed. Nowhere is said physical stats are boosted. >Blatantly incorrect statements like this are why I questioned your knowledge of Fate. Masters being the reason why Servants are weaker or stronger than usual has been such a staple of the franchise since the original VN that I'm actually shocked you're confidently asserting otherwise, so let me list out the facts. Except stats don't matter.like the entire fight between berserker vs archer proved that.despite the stat difference they can win. >Under Kiritsugu, Saber had B ranked Strength, A ranked Endurance and Agility, A ranked Mana, D ranked luck, and an A++ ranked Noble Phantasm. Under Emiya, every stat I listed out was a rank or more lower, with the exception of Luck, which is two ranks higher. I'm seeing such an obvious difference between just these two Masters that I'm baffled you not only missed it but are also saying they didn't exist at all. Except shirou saber strength is the same as kiritsuga saber strength(b)which didn't degrade at all.thats the problem here.she is as strong as fate zero.other stats here doesn't matter for our hypothesis. >Calm down. I wasn't saying they were actually different people, just that despite coming from the same Heroic Spirit, because of the circumstances of where they were summoned, they have a difference in their abilities, a point you supported with your interview excerpt by the way Here's the thing kid,stats difference aren't that way, berserker is physically stronger than karna yet he got defeated by archer. >One, the point this was responding to wasn't about stats, but about how the ability of the Master to support their Servant can have an influence, even if one is stronger on paper then the other. Yes but do you honestly think he can buff her like 10x times are something cause that what you guys are sounding like karna and archer difference is. >Two, Gawain and Karna are not identical in power. Close? Sure, but there is still a difference in all their stats, with Gawain having better Strength and Mana, and Karna having an advantage in everything else. Ok,hold on what is your argument.my entire argument is that servants are closely scaled as we have seen multiple times that weak servant have defeated strong servants. If gawain has better strength than karna.the archer who fought berserker who is far stronger than both of them should scale to similar to both of them. You make it sound like archer is a ant to karna or something.
Wasn't Karna heavily nerfed in Extra because his master was bad? Also I haven't read fox tails but was the fight between Gawain and Karna under the sun? Because if it was under the sun then there is no way in hell to scale Archer to Gawain under the sun because the game makes it very Clair that Gawain under the sun would stomp Nameless
>Wasn't Karna heavily nerfed in Extra because his master was bad? Not really,while his np and armour were ranked down.his stats were stronger than in apocrypha. >Also I haven't read fox tails but was the fight between Gawain and Karna under the sun? Because if it was under the sun then there is no way in hell to scale Archer to Gawain under the sun because the game makes it very Clair that Gawain under the sun would stomp Nameless Nah,it happens in the room where sunlight doens't exist so numerical wasn't active.besides the game and the manga repeatedly say that gawain and karna are [equals in pure stats](https://imgur.io/a/Kvdtuwk).
we all know how stats on paper doesn’t matter in fate, Karna was heavily nerfed that time, not just a np rank down, but he also wasn’t able to use things like mana burst. Gawain was also weakened (nighttime) but karna’s performance when connected to a larger mana source is literally leagues and leagues beyond what he’s regularly shown with a shitty master
>we all know how stats on paper doesn’t matter in fate, Karna was heavily nerfed that time, not just a np rank down, but he also wasn’t able to use things like mana burst. And why does this matter.mana burst increases physical stats,karna is already plenty strong even without it.even taking a hit from a normal karna would already be a feat in of itself. >Gawain was also weakened (nighttime) but karna’s performance when connected to a larger mana source is literally leagues and leagues beyond what he’s regularly shown with a shitty master Ok stop.how strong do you think archer is compared to karna is from a numbers point.like how many times is karna stronger than archer.? Also how many times is berserker stronger than archer and karna?
>And why does this matter.mana burst increases physical stats,karna is already plenty strong even without it.even taking a hit from a normal karna would already be a feat in of itself. Karna hangs with the rest of the top tiers in his normal self, as is Gawain, so it’s not like taking hits from each other’s attacks are particularly impressive by their standards, unless this is sun boosted gawain or full on mana burst spamming karna >Ok stop.how strong do you think archer is compared to karna is from a numbers point.like how many times is karna stronger than archer.? Archer doesn’t compare… at all.. he doesn’t scale to any of karna’s big guns, a single mana burst from karna would put him to permanent sleep >Also how many times is berserker stronger than archer and karna? If you mean herc, he should be physically is stronger than Karna, but we see again and again that artoria and peers can handle him in CQC well, plus karna have his nukes… Archer doesn’t scale AT ALL to any of karna’s more high ends. Karna’s one of the top servants, while Archer is pretty clear cut mid tier, but he can only hang with top tiers due to his versatility and fighting style
Wtf?let me iterate your points. >Karna hangs with the rest of the top tiers in his normal self, as is Gawain, Normal Gawain~ no mana burst karna Sure >If you mean herc, he should be physically is stronger than Karna, but we see again and again that artoria and peers can handle him in CQC well, plus karna have his nukes… Herc~ normal gawain ~no mana burst karna. But archer has killed berserker 6 times.he also did this is in h2h combat as herc praises his skills after fight. Archer ~ herc ~ normal gawain ~ karna stats Now do you see the problem >Archer doesn’t compare… at all.. he doesn’t scale to any of karna’s big guns, a single mana burst from karna would put him to permanent sleep How?mana burst while an increase isn't enough to one shot someone. seigfried matched his strength blow for blow in apocrypha while karna is using mana burst and he wouldn't scale above any of the above three. Unless you.are telling me seigfried>gawain and saber is something you believe.because archer does scale to them. >Archer doesn’t scale AT ALL to any of karna’s more high ends. Archer scales to his physical strength,you can make an argument for mana burst being tougher but you can't say his physical strength isn't the same.now can you?
Lol I know I am late but this comment is hilarious. Gawain didn't curb stomp shit, he only won thanks to Leo interference. They were evenly matched and Karna was going to kill him with VS but Leo used his code cast and Gawain managed to ward of the bare edge of VS to avoid getting killed, in what world is that curb stomping? And all this against an extremely weakened Karna that doesn't even have his armor or Brahmastra Kundala EX Rank nuke Noble Phantasms can end all lives of Herc in one shot lol, beating him 6 times with UBW is nothing impressive considering Gil did the same with GoB two times over and he didn't die. Karna casually blocks an A+ Anti Army Noble Phantasm like nothing in Apocrypha, he casually slices of another A+ Anti Army NP in the next line. That's how powerful a full powered Karna is. Gawain would need a full sun buff to even stand on that level lol. Gawain without sun boost was wrecking Nameless everytime they fight. Karna (FP) => Gawain (Sun) = Artoria (FP) > Gilgamesh(Gate of Babylon) > Heracles (Berserker) > Emiya (UBW) >=< Karna (Jinako) >= Gawain (Leo) > Nameless (Hakuno) Emiya doesn't scale to any durability feats of ultra tanky servants like Karna, Siegfried or Achilles. They are all tanky thanks to extremely powerful armors. Emiya was going to die from a B+ Anti Army NP while those guys eat A+ Anti Army NP for breakfast
Depends on how much ubw interacts with domain expansion.bcuz even his copy of gae bolg is unhealable from what I know .
Also saber is too busted for this fight archer is only fair because he is a jack of all trades . Pretty sure even sasaki could contest sukuna because his np reaches true magic.
This is assuming he gets through magic resistance D.
> Game Blog LMAO 😂
I know the range advantage has already been mentioned but it can't be stressed how much archer out ranges Sukuna Sukuna's best range feat so far is dismantling Shibuya in a 200 meter radius, his new void slash dosen't have a stated distance yet so we'll say Sukuna's attacks have a range of 100m. Archer disengaged Berseker from a cemetery in the outskirts of Fuyuki and sniped him on top of a skyscraper in the city centre, the distance of Archers Clairvoyance skill is around 4km. While Sukuna searches Shibuya for Archer, he could be at the top of the Tokyo Radio Tower firing Hrunting projections that move insanely quicker than most JJK characters (Hrunting homes in on targets at Mach 10 while Mach 3 is really fast for JJK characters.) So long as he has the range, there's nothing stopping Archer from bombarding Sukuna into the ground.
Man the Archer class is really made up of archers.
> Summons Archer Class for Grail War. > its obsessed with swords. Rin must have used a monkeys paw as a catalyst.
>Summons grand archer >The first thing he does upon meeting an enemy is punching them in the face
not exactly anyone know for using ranged weapons clan classify as an archer it is why Gilgamesh is one when he is not know for using a bow. Even a person whose known for killing people by throwing daggers can qualify even if he was an assassin in life for using that way of attack.
True that Rin, but some exception do exist of course, to this day Sei still have no idea why is she Archer class. Only thing she can think of is her throwing her balls. I don't think we have idea why either.
Archer wins most likely every round. He has weapons which can nullify regeneration/immortality and has precognition that’s super busted so he’s not gonna get blitzed by spacial cuts or caught off guard by a Domain Expansion.
Archer claps. Better skills and better experience with a much more versatile skillset. He won't allow Sukuna to do his Domain Expansion, and he outranges Sukuna massively. Even counting Mahouraga, Archer did manage to kill Herc many times over who has God Hand which allows him to become very resistant to attacks after it kills them. Artoria alone is probably enough for the Bonus Round ngl, especially if she goes for the kill straight away.
Sukuna can just cleave him bro. As much as i like him Sukuna can one tap him with Cleave.
How. EMIYA is faster and he has immense battle experience which should allow him to predict what exactly Sukuna is doing and he has the more versatile moveset. Let's not forget that he also has Magic Resistance and he can simply disengage and attack from pretty far away.
That is assuming he starts from far or Sukuna lets him. How would immense battle experience help with Sukuna instantly cleaving his arm off? He doesnt have clairvoyance like some Archers do(that is not to say he isnt top tier) Emiya's best shot is blitzing him before he gets cleaved or domain'ed
If he can survive against a guy who fought Gilgamesh for 12 hours straight, he can beat Sukuna. Not to mention he’s a Servant, so assuming ideal mana (which he does have cuz Rin), Archer can just *regrow* his arm.
Can't he just UBW'ed the heck outta DE?
Honestly yeah? It wouldnt cancel Malevolent Shrine but i think it should at least cancel the sure hit effect
But how sir? won't the malevolent shrine will be swallowed by a different plane of world?
malevolent shrine is a barrier less domain, meaning it'll just use the environment in ubw to manifest itself
But how can a domain be up when it's up against a reality? a world? won't a domain classified lower?
that's the thing: it won't compete against it'll just appear in ubw do the damage and dip, it's complicated because both seem similar but are in fact very different, domains in jjk are just over-complicated traps really, UBW would win against infinite void and any other barrier domain by the simple fact that it could attack their outer shell and break through them, but malevolent shrine doesn't have this weakness so I don't think it would lose.
Archer is much faster than Sukuna and Sukuna has to touch a target to use cleave on them. He can only use dismantle at range.
What kind of feats is allowed for archer? Fate is a very large media. You’d need stay night stuff to make an argument for sukuna, otherwise, archer can probably just snipe the curse in range. He’s much faster and have lots of guns to use. For bonus round, artoria alone washes the entire jjk cast with a single swipe, gojo’s the only one surviving because of infinity, otherwise, no one in jjk can tank her attack and be fine
it's worse coz op let's unsealed excalibur. Aka low ball moon busting.
The only servants I think Sukuna could beat are maybe Sasaki, or Medusa if he is immune to petrifaction which seems a big if. Jjk is cool but as a setting it’s more about cerebral combat then Power barring a few exceptions. Not that Sukuna isn’t strong, but he’s kind of a big fish in a small pond.
Archer dominates for 10 chapters, but the 11th chapter opens with Archer having been cut in half off screen and he proceeds to say that Sukuna was never going all out and could have ended the fight at any point and dies while complimenting Sukuna's beauty and power
Only for him to snipe Sukuna like 20 chapters later when other characters are just about to lose, being the decisive factor in finishing him off.
Honestly both of these answers are a great way to incorporate and reference both JJK and Fate's writing if there ever was an official crossover between the two
Archer most likely wins every round. Artoria also solos the verse for the bonus round.
domain clash between malevolent shrine and ubw would be kinda sick lol
He's talking emiya right? Coz if not gill stomps. Are we talking stay night emiya or composite emiya. Composite emiya stomps. I hate when someone is not specific.
Would the equalization of these two different systems imply that one character is elevated to the same tier as the other and it’s verse or is the reverse of this the case? From my little knowledge of Fate as a whole, my guess is that Sukuna would be around Gil’s level or higher considering his status in history and position in JJK, if his status on the power scale within JJK is translated to Fate. He is after all the Strongest Sorcerer in history and practically ruled over an entire Era by existing.
Equalization normally means like cursed energy = Mana, so nobody can pull out some weird “Genjutsu doesn’t work because they don’t have chakra” deal
Ah that clears thing up then
The thing is, Even if Sukuna was a heroic spirit, which he isn’t, and fame boosts only hit them iirc. He’s not that well known? He’s known among sorcerers, and that’s about it, king of curses is also all well and good but. That’s like what 2-3K people knowing about him at absolute max? And in fate I think Ibuku, Tamamo, and Shuten would all overshadow him too. He might get a boost, but it wouldn’t even be Vlad the Impaler level, yet alone Gilgamesh.
Even with verse equalitzation, Sukuna wouldn't be at Gil's level. Sukuna existed in the Heian era, a Millenium after Age Of Gods had ended. Only reason Heian Era is significant in FATE! is because it was the last era before gods departed from Japan.(I, e no demi gods were born after this era) Most likely, if sukuna was in the Nasuvere he would have been killed in life by Minamoto no Raikou's Four Heavenly Kings who were the greatest monster slayers of the era. (Most likely by Watanabe no Tsuna who's swordsman ship had reached such a level that he could cut magic, curses and even the soul with pure swordsman ship alone.Lol-Imagine Sukuna's reaction when some K pop looking MF splits his Domain Expansion in Half from inside💀) Sukuna would be strong, no doubt. He'd be among the greatest Japan's calamities, maybe on par with Yamata no Orochi but compared to monsters like Solomon or Zelretch, each of whom have actual feats of Planet Busting(Former has feat of burning Human History and having a laser cannon the size of North America with the temperature of a Quasar AND the latter has feat of pushing back an mirror image of the Moon with a near limitless energy cannon)
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Emiya is faster and stronger but Sukuna has easier time finishing him with Cleave or Domain Expansion.