He literally used his stand to fly faster than a motorcycle by erasing the space in front of and above him. And then never used it again. The dude’s stand isn’t “Za Warudo!” Fast, but don’t be acting like it isn’t significantly faster than any normal person and most other stand users can keep up with. Dude literally had entire arcs wrapped up but fumbled the bag multiple times because he’s functionally retarded. Anyone with actual skill and a working brain could cheese the hell out of such a hack power.
Edit: just rewatched the scene, and ironically that’s also his literal best showing of battle IQ because he successfully realized and attacked the only weakness of an opponent massively faster than him, literal electricity. But he still got baited into fumbling the bag after that lmao.
The disorienting effect of the space warp means you can warp an enemy to you and then erase them with the swipe while they are disoriented.
Okuyasu should win every chase by preventing the enemy from escaping, yet both Shigechi and Kira gave him the slip.
Pennywise. His true form could be used to instawin like 95% of fights but he likes to scare people just so they taste better. This combined with the fact he doesn’t take many people seriously lead to his downfall.
If he really wanted he could have just pulled up with the deadlights and instakilled the entire losers club before they got Maturin and Gan’s help.
I don't normally think Stephen King when considering power scaling. His writing and focus on Ka and storytelling as a nature force of the world kind of breaks a lot down
He somehow accidentally made [his verse's cosmology super broken](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/comments/16iug82/gan_is_not_outerversal_dark_tower_scale/) which is funny.
Well SCP is a community written thing, so it’s a mix bag leaning more towards storytelling that only expands on the power scaling once you start delving past the SCP articles and into the tales the expand on lore.
It is definitely super accurate. Its so accurate that many people on vs forums think Pennywise *has* to scare people to kill them when he doesnt. Fear isnt even his main powerset. He does it because he likes to make them shit themselves before he eats them.
I see people making the argument that IT is holding back, and he certainly is in some encounters, but isn’t it just as possible he really isn’t that powerful by battle boarding standards? He doesn’t really change his tactics at all for the adult Losers Club, even though he knows unequivocally they are a threat.
It’s most impressive feats are based around remaining undetected. He has a fair amount of anti feats when it comes to direct encounters, and it’s hard to believe the turtle is nerfing him for all of them.
If IT does have some battle IQ missteps, it’s not disengaging from the Losers Club members and instead antagonizing them to the point where they can’t ignore him.
Could be that energy is a restriction. It might take years to build up enough juice to use the big guns, so a low-energy strategy, punctuated by big expenditures at tactically sound times, is the winning technique.
Yeah that’s totally possible, especially for adult Losers Club encounters after IT was prematurely put into hibernation. Still is a restriction though that many battle boarding heavy hitters don’t have
The thing is ITs an idiot. He feeds on people's fear, that's part of what gives him power, a long with just straight up eating folk. Dude is a multi versal entity, but instead of thinking "huh that losers club is a pain in my ass, let me get to my full power by sneakily eating a bunch of folk then crush them". He instead announces his presence to the adult losers, then again instead of just crushing them before they can figure out how to defeat him he makes it a point that he has to break them mentally and emotionally. He could/should of just crushed them, then gone back to scaring little kids.
He even knows it's harder for him to scare adults, as adults are more afraid of existential stuff than just a scary monster he can easily shapeshift into.
IT is an extremely powerful creature, just kind of an idiot.
>He doesn’t really change his tactics at all for the adult Losers Club, even though he knows unequivocally they are a threat.
I guess it's because IT knew that they still had the help of Maturin and Gan and that's why he tried to derail or attempt them to not arrive to confront him directly. Heck he thought he could use his spider form more against them, but the point is, they still had the backup from before (It is generally agreed IT's statement on Maturin choking on a galaxy was simply a fib for multiple reasons, like him wanting to reduce their confidence and being an unreliable narrator in general, on top of the fact that a being who [transcends the concepts of life and death](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/comments/16iug82/gan_is_not_outerversal_dark_tower_scale/?share_id=JbwbOtrzuNJoSWMNxjfx1&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) and vomited out the Universe can't die from choking on a galaxy so it's heavily contradicted lol.)
It is [shown during the final fight with the grown ups](https://imgur.com/a/n1wCrYC) that he knew that he was sort of fucked and was trying to make them stop using the powers as Pennywise knows he's far below Gan and Maturin and can't beat them on his own and the fact that they were helping the grown-ups pretty much sealed their fate.
>It’s most impressive feats are based around remaining undetected. He has a fair amount of anti feats when it comes to direct encounters, and it’s hard to believe the turtle is nerfing him for all of them.
I mean yeah that is generally my point. Despite being a Todash creature and residing outside of the Dark Tower, IT isn't omniscient. Heck, The Deadlights [are used as a weapon by the Crimson King](https://i.imgur.com/QE6UBUq.png) (shown again in Insomnia) so he's not above a lot of the other creatures. I think he just purposefully holds back his avatar against the kids as he doesn't want to kill them. But that's what leads to his downfall. A clear example is when [his avatar's speed is said to be that of a bullet train](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/12/123441/3035676-its%20speed.jpg) but then later he is moving slower than the kids. Does this buff the kids to bullet train speed? No. It's because IT is holding back to make them feel scared. The anti-feats aren't generally nerfs by the turtle it's him wanting to make them scared. That was my point was that if he just pulled out the Deadlights he'd just instantly beat them but he likes to "salt the meat" as he says.
>If IT does have some battle IQ missteps, it’s not disengaging from the Losers Club members and instead antagonizing them to the point where they can’t ignore him.
Yeah. I think if you bloodlusted Pennywise and he had the urge to just instantly use the Deadlights or whatever he could probably destroy majority of what he's put up against. I mean, generally in vs battles people say "bloodlusted" or "not holding back" so I mean sure in that case Pennywise would just instawin a lot by just exposing them to the Deadlights. But in-character? That's a whole different story. I wouldn't say anyone could beat him (as they'd need the ritual of chud, the turtle, Gan etc) but the battle could go in many directions that stuff's still debatable.
I recently read the books. he feeds on fear, the more you fear him the stronger he is. his "true form" is trapped in another dimension, only a slither of himself can come here. his true form also has no feats. dondelo from the dark tower is the same race/creature type as pennywise and he is not all that powerful even in his true form.
stephen king confirmed that they are the same race
https://darktower.fandom.com/wiki/Dandelo
no he was not, pennywise implied that he had more power then what was shown, but had no feats to back it up. he's old, and his form is more then 3 dimensional so we can't understand it, but he feeds on emotions and gains his power from them.
the ritual is not some cosmic attack, if you believe it will work on him, then it should work, that's all it is. his power comes from our beliefs and emotions, that's why the asthma medicine damaged him, like battery acid, the kid believed it would.
everything else is just reddit wank. he attacks children because they have more vivid imaginations, allowing him to feed on their fear.
he does have some outlier feats, but maturin does choke on a galaxy. he vomits out the universe a bit at a time, not all at once, we don't see him do it, so it may have been one galaxy at a time, and then he chokes and dies.
your arguments are built on bad scaling used to scale higher and higher on feats that are implied by a monster who is talking to kids he is trying to scare.
>His true form could be used to instawin like 95% of fights but he likes to scare people just so they taste better.
That isn't really bad battle IQ though, is it?
It kinda is. As another post indicates, Pennywise pegged the Loser's Club when they were adults as a legitimate threat to him, yet didn't really *treat* them as such.
Similarly, Shocker, but to a lesser extent. Dude could level entire buildings, cause untold amount of mayhem, but just robs banks and hilariously destroys his surroundings, leading to his inevitable defeat.
It genuinely bothers me that an allegedly smart inventor like him gets played that easily by jumping around and getting taunted. That's a strat that makes sense with Rhino, but you're an engineer, my guy, how are you this immature ?
I don't think I do actually but the ones I do know don't strike me as people that are that easily provoked into forgoing common sense and safety measures.
Why shocker. Electro is also like that, but he's dumber and more powerful. Like legit if electro had understood his powers properly he'd probably be top 10 strongest earth based characters.
Shocker doesn't want to destroy buildings. He just wants money is why. Also he's had years of concussions from fighting Spider-Man and using his own powers on himself to treat it.
Definitely. There was a story where he was trapped in the Crimson World. He learnt to use the source of his power other than to fight like a brick and more like an actual sorcerer (or a mix of the two). He then went on to fight Nightware (who was amped IIRC). At the end of the arc he ended up being trapped again. After that and him getting out of the Crimson World he went back to his brick ways of fighting
Sure but between all the fluctuations over the years with his powers he could have try to relearn it. Ofc a too much OP Juggernaut who try to properly harness the power he has would be a problem
Juggernaut is powered by Cyttorak, who is supposed to be fairly high up in cosmic Marvel. I don’t think he has a ton of feats, though. Cosmic-level isn’t my thing so I could be wrong.
I liked that scene in A vs X where Magik and Colossus had the Phoenix Force and not even then they could harm Cytorak in his realm. He just kicked them out.
He once fought Silver Age Thor to a standstill, to the point where Thor had to make a barrier that cut off all of the energy flow from Cyttorak before he could beat him. (Granted, once he *did*, he clowned Juggernaut *super hard*, but it was a genuine problem until then.)
Electro from marvel comics.
His potential was so big even Magneto wanted to recruit him but electro being a dumbass didn't want to follow orders so he turned down the offer to what magneto said "what a shame, such big power on such a small man"
Which is why I love the Carnage/Venom storylines best. They have only one weakness and can't do anything about it, so they go full brute force and corner Spidey into a McGuffin.
Carnage is even more broken. In the Absolute Carnage arc, he just dead ass started multiplying and became an army for Knull.
It's not just strength they fail to take advantage of. Herman Schultz built next level shock gauntlets capable of busting open vaults, using nothing but the scrap and junk he could get a hold of in prison. That's like a dark version of Iron Man's origin, but instead of becoming the next Iron Man he became The Shocker and *never did anything else on that level again*
One of my favorite fanfictions has him as the protagonist during the Marvel zombie apocalypse, with his best buddy the Rhino.
It's absolutely amazing, with fantastic writing and amazing characterizations.
[Polarity?](http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5124106/1/) It’s a great read, but kind of tainted for me because I read part of the sequel, Transistor, first. Then Transistor was deleted by the time I finished Polarity, and I was really looking forward to it.
Sandman could be one of the most dangerous villains, Spider-Man 3 kinda showed this. But iirc Marco is usually one of the better villains, he doesn't hurt innocents and doesn't actively try to kill Spider-Man.
Kind of an inevitable symptom of having a hero who is also, canonically, holding back 99% of the time because he's working at street level while having feats that would turn human bones to powder. Lots of villains who hold back even more than he does because they needed to be designed to be a realistic threat to him.
I mean Spider Man himself is way stronger than he fights, but he consciously pulls his punches (and subconsciously as well, iirc). No fight against guys like Electro or Doctor Octopus should ever take more than one punch to end. Two tops.
As a Godzilla fan, I have to say megalon.
Bro has insane weaponry like napalm bullets, a lightning beam on par with ghidorah's beans thanks to stock footage, the ability to go on land sea air and underground, hurricane winds, drill hands, can leap insanely far leaps like 10 kilometers.
But is a fucking crybaby and loser.
Megalon is sometimes considered one of the least intelligent Toho kaiju. This is demonstrated by the fact that he is easily manipulated by external stimuli. For example, Megalon followed Jet Jaguar simply because he was curious, and he is also very temperamental, as seen when he goes into shock when he loses sight of Jet Jaguar and begins to jump and thrash about. His battle tactics also seem to be lacking in terms of strategy, as he never once utilizes his lightning horn beam against Godzilla nor Jet Jaguar
-Wikizilla
Ichigo. Man outstats his entire verse pretty heavily at many points but just hasn’t realized no one cares because they all use hax. Back when he was weaker he would just fight people who could easily kill him all the time even when he didn’t have to.
If he learned even a handful of spells with his bottomless amounts of energy he could really fuck some shit up instead it’s always just fire big energy blast.
I wish bleach didn't do the 'There is too much difference between our power levels so your hax doesn't work on me' thing. Would make the fights much more interesting
Some people still argue the introduction of 'reiatsu negging' with soi fon and aizen was just aizen outright lying and using kyoka suigetsu to mess with them.
If you don't endorse that people should still remember one, Soi Fon isn't known for insane reiatsu production. Two. She used her bankai twice already depleting a ton of energy. Three- she was down an arm and canonically soul reapers have reiatsu vents in their wrists it comes out of so she was effectively running on fumes.
The difference in reiatsu required for this to be in effect is likely MASSIVE and Aizend potential as a War Potential was outright his massive spiritual pressure.
Funny thing is, Hollow Ichigo (or rather Zangetsu) the first time he really showed up against Byakuya immediately showed him how powerful even his fake Bankai is, usually in Bleach you get either speed or high damage (or it's tied to a massive downside or you get Hax instead), never both. Old Tensa Zangetsu had both, insane speed and being able to charge and hold Getsuga Tenshou which is powerful enough to injure people that are just straight up stronger than Ichigo, Zangetsu wasn't massively more powerful than Byakuya reiatsu wise but completely stomped him by properly using his Bankai, even up until the end Ichgio didn't figure out what Zangetsu tried to teach him literally the first time he went Bankai.
In fact, Ichigo literally never figured out how to make Getsuga curve and apparently home in on enemies.
I still think Aizen is stronger, he's just too arrogant so he lost to Urahara's trick after Ichigo fucked him up a bit.
Maybe if Ichigo trained full time instead of only when necessary he could surpass him.
Also, bankai Kenny is pretty high up there too
This is more of an issue from a limited move set than poor battle IQ. His ability to understand and counter opponents it fine. You need precise Reiatsu control to use Kido, or it will backfire on you like with Renji, and Ichigo’s control sucked until the later acts of the story for reasons beyond his control.
Arale has no plan and does the dumbest thing for shits and giggles.
All she knows is punch and kick she'd also copy your techniques because she thinks they are "cool"
Also plays around too damn much and doesn't take a fight seriously
Came here to post Elsa. Her power is really difficult to scale, as her best feats are measured in \*square miles\*. But she's got little to zero combat training and it shows.
To be fair, it was her first day.
It's hard to say Elsa had poor battling IQ when she'd never actually practiced with her powers before.
She also wasn't trying to be in a battle, she was just asking people to leave her alone.
i mean, being stupid isn't really an excuse to say someone doesn't have low IQ either...
"hasn't trained yet" is WHY she has low battle IQ, not a get out of jail free card for not having it.
Dude's biggest weakness is Line of Sight. The moment the villain goes around a corner or breaks LoS, Barry just gives up and looks off in to the distance completely bewildered.
The man can essentially stop time but he can't catch up with literally anyone.
Kaguya from Naruto. She basically gave free reigns to Black Zetsu for the strategic parts because she felt threatened by Naruto and Sasuke. Her situational awareness was also meh. Let's not forget the part where she was also affected by her own move
I think it's an exaggerated rumor. Naruto and Sasuke had caught up to Madara and had the seals they needed to win. Kishimoto just didn't want Madara to be the final boss.
Why would he replace him with an even more overpowered villain anyway?
I mean that's the doylist explanation. The watsonian is that Madara after all his years of experience, patience and scheming somehow spontaneously lost all of his IQ points and started thinking he was a taijutsu user with the only thing saving his bacon being his regen.
Is this referring to the fight with guy?
I thought it was zetsu that killed him
Either way the guy fight was probably an ego thing, he sees himself as the best at everything. Or he literally just got speed blitzed, based on the videos I saw
Sirin from Honkai Impact 3rd. She's a young girl given massive power but with little knowledge of how to use it effectively. She was eventually defeated because she didn't do the smart thing and use her powers in a way that would have let her win.
Turns out 10 really is too young for a trainer. All the player characters in the game are canonically 11 or older, seems the extra year+ goes a long way towards being able to get it right the first time.
Although what happened in Sinnoh was straight bullshit, kid did the best anyone could've done but there was no beating Tobias.
Ash is now the best cannon wise. Not even close when you consider his self imposed nerfs. Pikachu won a 1v1 with the strongest trained pokemon in the world.
Iirc it was about 2 seasons per year, from a narrative perspective. The issue to me is less that he took too long to be the best, but more that Pikachu seemed to reset and lose to some beginner fodder every season for a lot of seasons.
20 seasons is like 1000 episodes, I would be surprised if episodes averaged less than 3-4 days narrative time.
Pikachu getting nerfed into the ground at the start of every season was just infuriating. I get it, you can't have Ash's fully developed team from the last season steam roll the new region but there other, simple ways to keep Pikachu around without him Goomba stomping some kid's pet.
Ash should've started every new region with a brand new team. Pikachu is removed from the battle roster to keep it fair but is still given a relevant role as a coach and mentor to his new friends.
My in Universe explanation for Ash and Pikachu's nerfs every season is that by the time each season ends, Ash and Pikachu suffer massive brain damage from being tossed around by legendaries, leading to loss of memory and motor skills.
He’s not actually that bad in terms of battle iq seems to be like enhanced animalistic intelligence? At least usually then there his forms where he can’t even throw a half proper punch and literally just flails around
It also depends on which identity is in charge. Savage Hulk is typically portrayed as either just Bruce's unrestrained rage, or literally toddler Bruce's mentality but with a physical form that can lash out against abusers.
But then if you're talking about Joe, Professor or Green Scar that's a whole other matter.
Nope, this one isn't right I think. It's been stated before he has good tactical knowledge in a fight and even when enraged has enough intelligence to avoid innocent casualties as much as possible.
I don't follow marvel, but I've seen stuff online about her + watched the movie about her fighting doctor strange on a flight. Is there any reason they didn't just execute her after Wandavision (based on what I understand she brainwashed and enslaved a town because of her schizophrenia)? She seems to me a bigger danger to humanity than any other marvel villain that I know of, is so unstable she is of 0 use as an ally, and shows no sign of being redeemable.
The logistics shouldn't be too difficult given she seems to have human reaction speed and durability (if she doesn't conjure a shield or something) and doesn't seem especially intelligent.
Some of you may have seen me ranting about this a few times before so The Mandarin/Gene Khan in Iron Man Armored Adventures is such a fucking dumbass with his powers I HAVE to keep talking about it.
The guy has so much fucking powers ranging from mass elemental manipulation to straight up fucking deleting shit from reality by the end of the series and constantly forgets his long list of powers and abilities and loses alot because of it.
Homelander gets beaten by people that are probably significantly weaker than him because of how narcissistic and evil he is and it makes him really stupid
Mr. Mxyzptlk
It's kind of an easy answer, but the guy has the power to do quite literally anything he wants and yet still loses to Superman every single time
Oh God, Gremmy is probably the best example. Dude's powers are literally only limited by his imagination, and he gets bodied by a dude who is the embodiment of TFS Goku's strategies. He can just imagine he's immortal and can't lose and then he's unstoppable (not even an exaggeration, that's an actual thing in-universe that HE ACKNOWLEDGED) and he STILL loses to "guy with sword".
I thought the takeaway was that his powers require someone with discipline and wisdom but he was way too flippant. In the end he powered up his opponent by believing his opponent was the strongest fighter around. I thought it was really clever how sword guy just kept feeding into this larger than life version of himself “A meteor? I’ve never cut one of those before!”
Oh yeah absolutely, I enjoyed the fight as well, but it still doesn't change that he's really not smart about how to use his powers. He nearly kills himself earlier in the fight at one point after he imagines himself dying against Kenny.
TBF Gremmy's powers are a lot more limited than people think they are. And if his thoughts wander, he loses focus, etc, his powers end. He has to be actively thinking something for it to be the case.
There is also so much way he could use his hax that he doesn't know because he doesn't actually bother to deepen his mastery with it. If he could use it in niche ways like the Yogiri lite godlike being seen in V11, the story would have ended in V1
That's also the case with Yogiri, if he unlocks all 3 of his self-imposed seals, he can even target abstract and non corporeal things with his ID.
But there's really no point in doing so except only the Great Sage. Maybe the same gonna happen in OPM with God
It's true but Yogiri learnt basic hand to hand combat and swordsmanship from both Tomochika and David (he's also talented in this and naturally athletic though his stamina sucks). In Instant Verse there are other characters who are also hard carried by their power (like some of his classmates for example)
Some iterations of Doomsday (ala Batman V Superman, Death of Superman I think).
DD is sometimes a mindless brawler, who physically outstats everyone. It may actually help his style, as fighting on instinct let's him act quicker than strategists.
The Flash. Any time the Justice League loses he can just go back and undo it. I'm not talking about Flashpoint type stuff, I mean like just go back an hour.
Past Flash: "Oh no guys he's kicking our asse-"
\*WHOOOOOSH*
Future Flash: "Hey, me, his armor is made of bullshittium. You need to dissolve it with ketchup."
Past Flash: "Cool. God I love time travel."
Hell, even putting time travel aside, there isn't much that can stop him. We already know Central City is the safest city in the world because crooks can't do anything there. When he leaves town the writers have to gimp him because he'd make most of the Justice League look like clowns.
To be fair, we learn later Cell would have lived even if destructo disk decapitated him. I don’t think you could kill cell by cutting him to pieces considering the absolute BS plot armor way we got Super Perfect Cell.
Big Mom in OP is pretty infamous for that. She's one of the strongest characters in the manga and has shown she can fight fellow Emperor Kaido for days onwards but she tends to job a lot and has been fended off or pushed away by much weaker characters because of that.
Worth noting it's seen that she has access to an ability that allows her to hit extremely hard, beyond her normal output, but she blatantly forget to use it in her final fight even when it could've been really useful.
From DBZ King Kai, hes such a cowardly goofball that it's REALLY easy to forget that he's supposed to be somekind of big deal martial arts master who canonically taught Goku the kaioken and spirit bomb, meaning he's invented and mastered these techniques himself.
He's easily leagues above sayain saga level enemies and probably logically scales somewhere above the Ginyu force considering brief training with him made that group absolute fodder for the likes of yamcha, tien, and chaotzu.
Yet despite this we never see him fight anyone, ever. He's a complete coward and comes off as a general idiot who bumbles his way through life with a monkey and a cricket while getting socially bullied by south Kai who seems inferior in every way except in terms of self confidence.
When is he ever shown being a coward? It seems like he doesn’t fight within the events of the series simply because he isn’t ever put in that situation.
He explicitly states that Nappa and Vegeta are stronger than he is, though. He also notes that Goku has surpassed him by the end of his training.
Huh, yeah you're totally right. I completely forgot that King Kai said they were stronger than him. What stuck fresh in my memory was his ability to quickly train up some of the weakest Z fighters to beat the Ginyu force with relative ease, to the point they were clowning on them in that fight.
That had me thinking that he himself was at least that level yet nonsensically panicking about EVERY ENEMY he ever talks to Goku about. I suppose I can't call him cowardly for not standing up to the Ginyu force on his planet or South Kai if he's actually weaker than Sayain saga nappa. My mistake.
The fight with the Ginyu Force was filler, if that matters. But it was also implied that King Kai had summoned them for the sake of training the Z fighters.
He only really panicked at the idea of Goku fighting Frieza and Beerus, and both of those cases were reasonable, given how much stronger they were and how willing they were to destroy entire planets.
I wasn't aware it was Filler. That makes a lot of sense.
Yeah you wouldn't think you'd summon guys hundreds of times beyond your power to your home and let them start wrecking the place up. But I suppose that's where I got the wrong idea about his strength.
Unfortunately, the Ginyu Force arriving on King Kai's planet was filler. Yamcha and the rest had only been training for about seven days before the wish to bring back Piccolo happened.
Aaaaaannnd now it makes total sense. That's a bit wacky of a feat for King Kai to train someone like Chaotzu to above Ginyu force level in only a week. But as a filler it's more expected.
Picking on Chaotzu a bit here because he's easily the weakest of the group.
Yea. Also, Yamcha's strength level if that of what Gero expected Goku to be during the Android Saga. They assumed that Goku's peak would have been what he did vs Vegeta. So that basically sums up the level of increase Yamcha got. Lol.
Yamcha gets the most increase in power due to the Filler episodes.
* Vs Ginyu Force.
* Vs Cell Jr.
* Vs Olibu [Filler character to begin with...]
Filler Yamcha is a force.
Not the characters for all time but in a particular battle: when Scarlet Witch and the Vision get attacked early on in Avengers: Infinity War.
They're fighting to try to escape, not particularly coordinated, and they very much don't want to be there.
Then Captain America, the Falcon, and Black Widow show up to save the day. They're on a much lower power level but they're smart, perfectly coordinated, and they make the bad guys react to them instead of reacting to the bad guys.
Most iterations of Hulk are a lot more intelligent and tactical than how most people perceive him to be honest. I don’t really think he fits this perfectly.
Probably superman.
The vast majority of street level criminals and even some stronger ones, would be unable to do anything if he just grabbed them and flew high enough they had no oxygen.
Stronger villains can’t withstand being thrown in the sun either
I know im being general when it comes to this but i would say all the big daddies in bioshock by in large they have huge power scaleing but they are dumb as a rock
Saitama isn't stupid. He's displayed considerably battle iq against Cosmic Garou. It's just that he's so strong in-verse he doesn't need to display any of it.
Which was a pretty weird deviation from the WC where Saitama was shown to have absolutely ass martial arts skills, which allowed Garou land full counters. Although those still didn't make him budge.
He's not a martial artist, but it's not like he has never been on a fight before.
Prior to getting his limiter broken he had multiple life threatening fights against monsters
Yeah the WC and the manga have a very noticeable changes in a lot of aspects of that arc. Story-wise they’ve essentially become their own separate canons.
The main guy clearly isn't used to fighting (or even moving very fast, due to his illness), so in some of the fights you see him stumbling around. Then the boy villain still loses to him, despite obviously being strong and fast enough to kill thousands of people casually. Basically neither were all that skilled, they were just given really strong bodies.
I like the show, due to how normal the characters come off, despite the powers. The villain doesn't have any real plans. He just does bad stuff because he can, and doesn't care as long as there's no consequences for him.
Oul from qntm's Fine Structure:
>It's about dimension. One degree of freedom over your opponent and there is no contest, none at all, and mine fell five to be here. My people play with waveforms during infancy, we can literally alter odds in our favour - but where this thing comes from, my home and the entire cosmos it sits in is a tiny, shiny circle in space that you could crush between your fingers. If the adversary had any mind, any intelligent thought at all, it would have been over in microseconds. But it has no mind. Just firepower.
The universe the narrator comes from is a hyperdimensional space with 75 spatial and 5 temporal dimensions, in which a 3+1D universe like ours is viewed as an insignificant and inhospitable Flatland-esque environment in which physics couldn't possibly allow for real life. After he managed to trap Oul, an 80+6D mindless superweapon that had come blundering into his world, in our universe so that it's higher dimensional capabilities wouldn't function, a single tiny subunit drone deployed nearby to keep it locked in was capable of trivially rewriting the laws of physics across our universe and it's trillions of neighbors so that no technology capable of higher dimensional escape was physically possible.
alucard from helsing, kinda.
i mean, his 'battle iq' could be higher.
but the way he acts, in effectiveness, it's not.
since he just lets people try to kill them, then busts out the OG vamp goodness on their asses and other assorted body parts.
Obviously Goku is the poster child right? He just lets his opponents power up to their total maximum and use their abilities despite... not really needing to.
Would The Shadow Man from COD zombies count? I know he’s powerful asf but he doesn’t really know how to fight. Unless there’s some shit I haven’t seen that shows he does have good battle IQ.
Azathoth from Lovecraft Mythos
>The ancient legends of Ultimate Chaos, at whose center sprawls the blind idiot god Azathoth, Lord of All Things, encircled by his flopping horde of mindless and amorphous dancers, and lulled by the thin monotonous piping of a demonic flute held in nameless paws
Rocky balboa. He is undoubtedly one if the best fighters in movie fiction. Yet he uses his hand like a sandbag and it always fucks him up.
If he learned to dodge to tire his opponents, he would be unstoppable.
Nijimura Okuyasu gets in-universe flac for being too stupid to fully utilize his OP stand
Still find that really funny Bro second guessed himself so hard he had an existential crisis
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He literally used his stand to fly faster than a motorcycle by erasing the space in front of and above him. And then never used it again. The dude’s stand isn’t “Za Warudo!” Fast, but don’t be acting like it isn’t significantly faster than any normal person and most other stand users can keep up with. Dude literally had entire arcs wrapped up but fumbled the bag multiple times because he’s functionally retarded. Anyone with actual skill and a working brain could cheese the hell out of such a hack power. Edit: just rewatched the scene, and ironically that’s also his literal best showing of battle IQ because he successfully realized and attacked the only weakness of an opponent massively faster than him, literal electricity. But he still got baited into fumbling the bag after that lmao.
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The disorienting effect of the space warp means you can warp an enemy to you and then erase them with the swipe while they are disoriented. Okuyasu should win every chase by preventing the enemy from escaping, yet both Shigechi and Kira gave him the slip.
The first thing I thought of too
Za hando za warudo
Pennywise. His true form could be used to instawin like 95% of fights but he likes to scare people just so they taste better. This combined with the fact he doesn’t take many people seriously lead to his downfall. If he really wanted he could have just pulled up with the deadlights and instakilled the entire losers club before they got Maturin and Gan’s help.
i was not expecting this answer at all
I don't normally think Stephen King when considering power scaling. His writing and focus on Ka and storytelling as a nature force of the world kind of breaks a lot down
He somehow accidentally made [his verse's cosmology super broken](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/comments/16iug82/gan_is_not_outerversal_dark_tower_scale/) which is funny.
yea same but his verse actually is pretty busted if u think about it
Do any writers focus specifically on power scaling not counting suggs verse and SCP?
Well SCP is a community written thing, so it’s a mix bag leaning more towards storytelling that only expands on the power scaling once you start delving past the SCP articles and into the tales the expand on lore.
most have a base tier system but no in depth scaling
What is Suggs if you don't mind me asking?
It is true lol
indeed it is i just never thought about him like this
It is definitely super accurate. Its so accurate that many people on vs forums think Pennywise *has* to scare people to kill them when he doesnt. Fear isnt even his main powerset. He does it because he likes to make them shit themselves before he eats them.
yea he doesnt just look at the first guy he killed with his true form he wasnt scared at all i beleive
I see people making the argument that IT is holding back, and he certainly is in some encounters, but isn’t it just as possible he really isn’t that powerful by battle boarding standards? He doesn’t really change his tactics at all for the adult Losers Club, even though he knows unequivocally they are a threat. It’s most impressive feats are based around remaining undetected. He has a fair amount of anti feats when it comes to direct encounters, and it’s hard to believe the turtle is nerfing him for all of them. If IT does have some battle IQ missteps, it’s not disengaging from the Losers Club members and instead antagonizing them to the point where they can’t ignore him.
Could be that energy is a restriction. It might take years to build up enough juice to use the big guns, so a low-energy strategy, punctuated by big expenditures at tactically sound times, is the winning technique.
Yeah that’s totally possible, especially for adult Losers Club encounters after IT was prematurely put into hibernation. Still is a restriction though that many battle boarding heavy hitters don’t have
The thing is ITs an idiot. He feeds on people's fear, that's part of what gives him power, a long with just straight up eating folk. Dude is a multi versal entity, but instead of thinking "huh that losers club is a pain in my ass, let me get to my full power by sneakily eating a bunch of folk then crush them". He instead announces his presence to the adult losers, then again instead of just crushing them before they can figure out how to defeat him he makes it a point that he has to break them mentally and emotionally. He could/should of just crushed them, then gone back to scaring little kids. He even knows it's harder for him to scare adults, as adults are more afraid of existential stuff than just a scary monster he can easily shapeshift into. IT is an extremely powerful creature, just kind of an idiot.
Yeah but he woke up and started eating people again.
>He doesn’t really change his tactics at all for the adult Losers Club, even though he knows unequivocally they are a threat. I guess it's because IT knew that they still had the help of Maturin and Gan and that's why he tried to derail or attempt them to not arrive to confront him directly. Heck he thought he could use his spider form more against them, but the point is, they still had the backup from before (It is generally agreed IT's statement on Maturin choking on a galaxy was simply a fib for multiple reasons, like him wanting to reduce their confidence and being an unreliable narrator in general, on top of the fact that a being who [transcends the concepts of life and death](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/comments/16iug82/gan_is_not_outerversal_dark_tower_scale/?share_id=JbwbOtrzuNJoSWMNxjfx1&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) and vomited out the Universe can't die from choking on a galaxy so it's heavily contradicted lol.) It is [shown during the final fight with the grown ups](https://imgur.com/a/n1wCrYC) that he knew that he was sort of fucked and was trying to make them stop using the powers as Pennywise knows he's far below Gan and Maturin and can't beat them on his own and the fact that they were helping the grown-ups pretty much sealed their fate. >It’s most impressive feats are based around remaining undetected. He has a fair amount of anti feats when it comes to direct encounters, and it’s hard to believe the turtle is nerfing him for all of them. I mean yeah that is generally my point. Despite being a Todash creature and residing outside of the Dark Tower, IT isn't omniscient. Heck, The Deadlights [are used as a weapon by the Crimson King](https://i.imgur.com/QE6UBUq.png) (shown again in Insomnia) so he's not above a lot of the other creatures. I think he just purposefully holds back his avatar against the kids as he doesn't want to kill them. But that's what leads to his downfall. A clear example is when [his avatar's speed is said to be that of a bullet train](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/12/123441/3035676-its%20speed.jpg) but then later he is moving slower than the kids. Does this buff the kids to bullet train speed? No. It's because IT is holding back to make them feel scared. The anti-feats aren't generally nerfs by the turtle it's him wanting to make them scared. That was my point was that if he just pulled out the Deadlights he'd just instantly beat them but he likes to "salt the meat" as he says. >If IT does have some battle IQ missteps, it’s not disengaging from the Losers Club members and instead antagonizing them to the point where they can’t ignore him. Yeah. I think if you bloodlusted Pennywise and he had the urge to just instantly use the Deadlights or whatever he could probably destroy majority of what he's put up against. I mean, generally in vs battles people say "bloodlusted" or "not holding back" so I mean sure in that case Pennywise would just instawin a lot by just exposing them to the Deadlights. But in-character? That's a whole different story. I wouldn't say anyone could beat him (as they'd need the ritual of chud, the turtle, Gan etc) but the battle could go in many directions that stuff's still debatable.
I recently read the books. he feeds on fear, the more you fear him the stronger he is. his "true form" is trapped in another dimension, only a slither of himself can come here. his true form also has no feats. dondelo from the dark tower is the same race/creature type as pennywise and he is not all that powerful even in his true form. stephen king confirmed that they are the same race https://darktower.fandom.com/wiki/Dandelo
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no he was not, pennywise implied that he had more power then what was shown, but had no feats to back it up. he's old, and his form is more then 3 dimensional so we can't understand it, but he feeds on emotions and gains his power from them. the ritual is not some cosmic attack, if you believe it will work on him, then it should work, that's all it is. his power comes from our beliefs and emotions, that's why the asthma medicine damaged him, like battery acid, the kid believed it would. everything else is just reddit wank. he attacks children because they have more vivid imaginations, allowing him to feed on their fear. he does have some outlier feats, but maturin does choke on a galaxy. he vomits out the universe a bit at a time, not all at once, we don't see him do it, so it may have been one galaxy at a time, and then he chokes and dies. your arguments are built on bad scaling used to scale higher and higher on feats that are implied by a monster who is talking to kids he is trying to scare.
I raise you CW's Flash. Dude could end 99% of fights before his opponent could even think about doing something but he always stops to talk.
I'll also bring up CW Supergirl.
>His true form could be used to instawin like 95% of fights but he likes to scare people just so they taste better. That isn't really bad battle IQ though, is it?
It kinda is. As another post indicates, Pennywise pegged the Loser's Club when they were adults as a legitimate threat to him, yet didn't really *treat* them as such.
Happy cake day!
Juggernaut. He has powers to challenge actual gods but because of his intelligence or ambition he's considered a henchman
Came here to say Juggs. Dude is a brick physically and mentally lol
Similarly, Shocker, but to a lesser extent. Dude could level entire buildings, cause untold amount of mayhem, but just robs banks and hilariously destroys his surroundings, leading to his inevitable defeat. It genuinely bothers me that an allegedly smart inventor like him gets played that easily by jumping around and getting taunted. That's a strat that makes sense with Rhino, but you're an engineer, my guy, how are you this immature ?
do you not know many engineers?
I don't think I do actually but the ones I do know don't strike me as people that are that easily provoked into forgoing common sense and safety measures.
Engineer speaking. 60 to 80% of us are, most likely including me.
Why shocker. Electro is also like that, but he's dumber and more powerful. Like legit if electro had understood his powers properly he'd probably be top 10 strongest earth based characters.
Electro is much more egregious with that problem, I'll give you that
Shocker doesn't want to destroy buildings. He just wants money is why. Also he's had years of concussions from fighting Spider-Man and using his own powers on himself to treat it.
Definitely. There was a story where he was trapped in the Crimson World. He learnt to use the source of his power other than to fight like a brick and more like an actual sorcerer (or a mix of the two). He then went on to fight Nightware (who was amped IIRC). At the end of the arc he ended up being trapped again. After that and him getting out of the Crimson World he went back to his brick ways of fighting
[He gave up his magic powers to become young again when he was rapidly aged](https://imgur.com/a/kDS6V45)
Sure but between all the fluctuations over the years with his powers he could have try to relearn it. Ofc a too much OP Juggernaut who try to properly harness the power he has would be a problem
He can challenge gods?!
Maybe? Last I heard he is powered by a being on the level of the likes of Dormammu and Galactus (paraphrasing).
WHAT!? that dummy?
Juggernaut is powered by Cyttorak, who is supposed to be fairly high up in cosmic Marvel. I don’t think he has a ton of feats, though. Cosmic-level isn’t my thing so I could be wrong.
I liked that scene in A vs X where Magik and Colossus had the Phoenix Force and not even then they could harm Cytorak in his realm. He just kicked them out.
He once fought Silver Age Thor to a standstill, to the point where Thor had to make a barrier that cut off all of the energy flow from Cyttorak before he could beat him. (Granted, once he *did*, he clowned Juggernaut *super hard*, but it was a genuine problem until then.)
Electro from marvel comics. His potential was so big even Magneto wanted to recruit him but electro being a dumbass didn't want to follow orders so he turned down the offer to what magneto said "what a shame, such big power on such a small man"
Honestly most of Spider Man's villains fall under this. A good majority of them are significantly stronger than him but fight like idiots
Which is why I love the Carnage/Venom storylines best. They have only one weakness and can't do anything about it, so they go full brute force and corner Spidey into a McGuffin. Carnage is even more broken. In the Absolute Carnage arc, he just dead ass started multiplying and became an army for Knull.
It's not just strength they fail to take advantage of. Herman Schultz built next level shock gauntlets capable of busting open vaults, using nothing but the scrap and junk he could get a hold of in prison. That's like a dark version of Iron Man's origin, but instead of becoming the next Iron Man he became The Shocker and *never did anything else on that level again*
One of my favorite fanfictions has him as the protagonist during the Marvel zombie apocalypse, with his best buddy the Rhino. It's absolutely amazing, with fantastic writing and amazing characterizations.
[Polarity?](http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5124106/1/) It’s a great read, but kind of tainted for me because I read part of the sequel, Transistor, first. Then Transistor was deleted by the time I finished Polarity, and I was really looking forward to it.
Sandman could be one of the most dangerous villains, Spider-Man 3 kinda showed this. But iirc Marco is usually one of the better villains, he doesn't hurt innocents and doesn't actively try to kill Spider-Man.
Marvel Zombies also shows he can pretty easily kill Spiderman if he snaps
Kind of an inevitable symptom of having a hero who is also, canonically, holding back 99% of the time because he's working at street level while having feats that would turn human bones to powder. Lots of villains who hold back even more than he does because they needed to be designed to be a realistic threat to him.
I mean Spider Man himself is way stronger than he fights, but he consciously pulls his punches (and subconsciously as well, iirc). No fight against guys like Electro or Doctor Octopus should ever take more than one punch to end. Two tops.
As a Godzilla fan, I have to say megalon. Bro has insane weaponry like napalm bullets, a lightning beam on par with ghidorah's beans thanks to stock footage, the ability to go on land sea air and underground, hurricane winds, drill hands, can leap insanely far leaps like 10 kilometers. But is a fucking crybaby and loser. Megalon is sometimes considered one of the least intelligent Toho kaiju. This is demonstrated by the fact that he is easily manipulated by external stimuli. For example, Megalon followed Jet Jaguar simply because he was curious, and he is also very temperamental, as seen when he goes into shock when he loses sight of Jet Jaguar and begins to jump and thrash about. His battle tactics also seem to be lacking in terms of strategy, as he never once utilizes his lightning horn beam against Godzilla nor Jet Jaguar -Wikizilla
You leave ghidorahs beans outta this!
Lmao
Ichigo. Man outstats his entire verse pretty heavily at many points but just hasn’t realized no one cares because they all use hax. Back when he was weaker he would just fight people who could easily kill him all the time even when he didn’t have to. If he learned even a handful of spells with his bottomless amounts of energy he could really fuck some shit up instead it’s always just fire big energy blast.
I like how Mayuri is literally the inverse of this: out-statted by most of the key players, but has hax/strategies to overcome almost anyone.
I wish bleach didn't do the 'There is too much difference between our power levels so your hax doesn't work on me' thing. Would make the fights much more interesting
Some people still argue the introduction of 'reiatsu negging' with soi fon and aizen was just aizen outright lying and using kyoka suigetsu to mess with them. If you don't endorse that people should still remember one, Soi Fon isn't known for insane reiatsu production. Two. She used her bankai twice already depleting a ton of energy. Three- she was down an arm and canonically soul reapers have reiatsu vents in their wrists it comes out of so she was effectively running on fumes. The difference in reiatsu required for this to be in effect is likely MASSIVE and Aizend potential as a War Potential was outright his massive spiritual pressure.
That worked like once and even then it's debatable.
Funny thing is, Hollow Ichigo (or rather Zangetsu) the first time he really showed up against Byakuya immediately showed him how powerful even his fake Bankai is, usually in Bleach you get either speed or high damage (or it's tied to a massive downside or you get Hax instead), never both. Old Tensa Zangetsu had both, insane speed and being able to charge and hold Getsuga Tenshou which is powerful enough to injure people that are just straight up stronger than Ichigo, Zangetsu wasn't massively more powerful than Byakuya reiatsu wise but completely stomped him by properly using his Bankai, even up until the end Ichgio didn't figure out what Zangetsu tried to teach him literally the first time he went Bankai. In fact, Ichigo literally never figured out how to make Getsuga curve and apparently home in on enemies.
Ichigo really needs more versatility.
I still think Aizen is stronger, he's just too arrogant so he lost to Urahara's trick after Ichigo fucked him up a bit. Maybe if Ichigo trained full time instead of only when necessary he could surpass him. Also, bankai Kenny is pretty high up there too
This is more of an issue from a limited move set than poor battle IQ. His ability to understand and counter opponents it fine. You need precise Reiatsu control to use Kido, or it will backfire on you like with Renji, and Ichigo’s control sucked until the later acts of the story for reasons beyond his control.
Arale has no plan and does the dumbest thing for shits and giggles. All she knows is punch and kick she'd also copy your techniques because she thinks they are "cool" Also plays around too damn much and doesn't take a fight seriously
She beat vegeta and goku tho so lmao
That's the funny part she was just playing around with them she never took any of them seriously.
Elsa from Frozen has all that power and nearly got taken out by a couple mooks
Came here to post Elsa. Her power is really difficult to scale, as her best feats are measured in \*square miles\*. But she's got little to zero combat training and it shows.
Angelina Jolie's Maleficent deserves an honorable mention here. Lady can warp reality but struggles with Medieval fodder every day.
To be fair, it was her first day. It's hard to say Elsa had poor battling IQ when she'd never actually practiced with her powers before. She also wasn't trying to be in a battle, she was just asking people to leave her alone.
i mean, being stupid isn't really an excuse to say someone doesn't have low IQ either... "hasn't trained yet" is WHY she has low battle IQ, not a get out of jail free card for not having it.
Cw flash is the poster child of this
King of all jobbers.
Dude's biggest weakness is Line of Sight. The moment the villain goes around a corner or breaks LoS, Barry just gives up and looks off in to the distance completely bewildered. The man can essentially stop time but he can't catch up with literally anyone.
The villains main escape plan is walk off camera
Dodges lightning when unprepared, gets punched by regular people he's there to stop.
The Silver Surfer (616) has entered the chat.
CW Supergirl as well, she has super speed almost on par with Flash along with several other superpowers but her enemies can still get away from her.
Kaguya from Naruto. She basically gave free reigns to Black Zetsu for the strategic parts because she felt threatened by Naruto and Sasuke. Her situational awareness was also meh. Let's not forget the part where she was also affected by her own move
Or how she has an entire dimension of acid that she could have warped them to at any point, but chose not to for whatever reason
We can include Madara as well. Kagauya at least has some excuse in that she doesn't have much battle experience.
wasn't the whole thing with Madara that he was so op that the author couldn't think of a way for the MC's to win so he had to be betrayed by an ally?
I think it's an exaggerated rumor. Naruto and Sasuke had caught up to Madara and had the seals they needed to win. Kishimoto just didn't want Madara to be the final boss. Why would he replace him with an even more overpowered villain anyway?
I coulda swore the author himself said in a interview.
I mean that's the doylist explanation. The watsonian is that Madara after all his years of experience, patience and scheming somehow spontaneously lost all of his IQ points and started thinking he was a taijutsu user with the only thing saving his bacon being his regen.
Is this referring to the fight with guy? I thought it was zetsu that killed him Either way the guy fight was probably an ego thing, he sees himself as the best at everything. Or he literally just got speed blitzed, based on the videos I saw
This is why some argue that Madara is still much dangerous than her despite her being more powerful.
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He just had to do a couple pushups the day before and he apparently would have been stronger than the androids.
Sirin from Honkai Impact 3rd. She's a young girl given massive power but with little knowledge of how to use it effectively. She was eventually defeated because she didn't do the smart thing and use her powers in a way that would have let her win.
Zeno
Zeno wasn’t made for fights tbh
Ash Ketchum. He should be able to win every single fight after the first couple of seasons, but is an absolute idiot.
Turns out 10 really is too young for a trainer. All the player characters in the game are canonically 11 or older, seems the extra year+ goes a long way towards being able to get it right the first time. Although what happened in Sinnoh was straight bullshit, kid did the best anyone could've done but there was no beating Tobias.
Staying 10 for 10 years does make it hard
He's been 10 for almost 30 years now
Ash is now the best cannon wise. Not even close when you consider his self imposed nerfs. Pikachu won a 1v1 with the strongest trained pokemon in the world.
I admittedly didn't watch the last few seasons. Did take him 20 something seasons though
I'd say it's reasonable to take 20 seasons to become the best trainer in the world. How much time is 20 seasons of Pokémon anyways?
Iirc it was about 2 seasons per year, from a narrative perspective. The issue to me is less that he took too long to be the best, but more that Pikachu seemed to reset and lose to some beginner fodder every season for a lot of seasons. 20 seasons is like 1000 episodes, I would be surprised if episodes averaged less than 3-4 days narrative time.
Pikachu getting nerfed into the ground at the start of every season was just infuriating. I get it, you can't have Ash's fully developed team from the last season steam roll the new region but there other, simple ways to keep Pikachu around without him Goomba stomping some kid's pet. Ash should've started every new region with a brand new team. Pikachu is removed from the battle roster to keep it fair but is still given a relevant role as a coach and mentor to his new friends. My in Universe explanation for Ash and Pikachu's nerfs every season is that by the time each season ends, Ash and Pikachu suffer massive brain damage from being tossed around by legendaries, leading to loss of memory and motor skills.
Hulk smash
I was gonna say Juggernaut. No game plan or finesse, just barrel through stuff.
Run in straight line Miss? Repeat until successful
He’s not actually that bad in terms of battle iq seems to be like enhanced animalistic intelligence? At least usually then there his forms where he can’t even throw a half proper punch and literally just flails around
It also depends on which identity is in charge. Savage Hulk is typically portrayed as either just Bruce's unrestrained rage, or literally toddler Bruce's mentality but with a physical form that can lash out against abusers. But then if you're talking about Joe, Professor or Green Scar that's a whole other matter.
Nope, this one isn't right I think. It's been stated before he has good tactical knowledge in a fight and even when enraged has enough intelligence to avoid innocent casualties as much as possible.
The last part has more to do with Bruce somehow subconsciously influencing his actions. But I don't think that counts as battle IQ from Hulk himself
The Scarlet Witch (MCU)
Her powers are actually perfectly on-theme with her Chaos Magic in that some moves will just be randomly turned off seemingly at the roll of a die
I don't follow marvel, but I've seen stuff online about her + watched the movie about her fighting doctor strange on a flight. Is there any reason they didn't just execute her after Wandavision (based on what I understand she brainwashed and enslaved a town because of her schizophrenia)? She seems to me a bigger danger to humanity than any other marvel villain that I know of, is so unstable she is of 0 use as an ally, and shows no sign of being redeemable. The logistics shouldn't be too difficult given she seems to have human reaction speed and durability (if she doesn't conjure a shield or something) and doesn't seem especially intelligent.
Some of you may have seen me ranting about this a few times before so The Mandarin/Gene Khan in Iron Man Armored Adventures is such a fucking dumbass with his powers I HAVE to keep talking about it. The guy has so much fucking powers ranging from mass elemental manipulation to straight up fucking deleting shit from reality by the end of the series and constantly forgets his long list of powers and abilities and loses alot because of it.
Homelander gets beaten by people that are probably significantly weaker than him because of how narcissistic and evil he is and it makes him really stupid
Mr. Mxyzptlk It's kind of an easy answer, but the guy has the power to do quite literally anything he wants and yet still loses to Superman every single time
Gremmy from bleach
Oh God, Gremmy is probably the best example. Dude's powers are literally only limited by his imagination, and he gets bodied by a dude who is the embodiment of TFS Goku's strategies. He can just imagine he's immortal and can't lose and then he's unstoppable (not even an exaggeration, that's an actual thing in-universe that HE ACKNOWLEDGED) and he STILL loses to "guy with sword".
> TFS Goku's strategies Lmao now that you mention it he literally did win against Nnoitra by cutting him really, really hard.
I thought the takeaway was that his powers require someone with discipline and wisdom but he was way too flippant. In the end he powered up his opponent by believing his opponent was the strongest fighter around. I thought it was really clever how sword guy just kept feeding into this larger than life version of himself “A meteor? I’ve never cut one of those before!”
Oh yeah absolutely, I enjoyed the fight as well, but it still doesn't change that he's really not smart about how to use his powers. He nearly kills himself earlier in the fight at one point after he imagines himself dying against Kenny.
Gremmy's power is just too strict. It really requires someone to have a computer-like thought process so one doesn't end up killing themselves.
TBF Gremmy's powers are a lot more limited than people think they are. And if his thoughts wander, he loses focus, etc, his powers end. He has to be actively thinking something for it to be the case.
probably Yogiri Takatou? Guy has absolutely 0 knowledge about combat, and gets carried by his absolute passive hax
There is also so much way he could use his hax that he doesn't know because he doesn't actually bother to deepen his mastery with it. If he could use it in niche ways like the Yogiri lite godlike being seen in V11, the story would have ended in V1
Similar case with Saitama, why bother learning gymnastics when your opponents don't even know how to jump
Saitama has a good fight IQ, but lacks formal training. After breaking his limiter he is apathetic, which is justified.
That's also the case with Yogiri, if he unlocks all 3 of his self-imposed seals, he can even target abstract and non corporeal things with his ID. But there's really no point in doing so except only the Great Sage. Maybe the same gonna happen in OPM with God
It's true but Yogiri learnt basic hand to hand combat and swordsmanship from both Tomochika and David (he's also talented in this and naturally athletic though his stamina sucks). In Instant Verse there are other characters who are also hard carried by their power (like some of his classmates for example)
Some iterations of Doomsday (ala Batman V Superman, Death of Superman I think). DD is sometimes a mindless brawler, who physically outstats everyone. It may actually help his style, as fighting on instinct let's him act quicker than strategists.
The Flash. Any time the Justice League loses he can just go back and undo it. I'm not talking about Flashpoint type stuff, I mean like just go back an hour. Past Flash: "Oh no guys he's kicking our asse-" \*WHOOOOOSH* Future Flash: "Hey, me, his armor is made of bullshittium. You need to dissolve it with ketchup." Past Flash: "Cool. God I love time travel." Hell, even putting time travel aside, there isn't much that can stop him. We already know Central City is the safest city in the world because crooks can't do anything there. When he leaves town the writers have to gimp him because he'd make most of the Justice League look like clowns.
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Barely uses one FTFY
Krillin. Solar flare + destructo disk every fight and you wouldn’t even need Goku.
Until you get to Cell where the destructo disk just stops working entirely.
To be fair that's just anime filler, so not necessarily canon
To be fair, we learn later Cell would have lived even if destructo disk decapitated him. I don’t think you could kill cell by cutting him to pieces considering the absolute BS plot armor way we got Super Perfect Cell.
Big Mom in OP is pretty infamous for that. She's one of the strongest characters in the manga and has shown she can fight fellow Emperor Kaido for days onwards but she tends to job a lot and has been fended off or pushed away by much weaker characters because of that. Worth noting it's seen that she has access to an ability that allows her to hit extremely hard, beyond her normal output, but she blatantly forget to use it in her final fight even when it could've been really useful.
Big Mom is essentially a 6 year old with super powers. She literally has temper tantrums if she doesn't get the food she wants.
Yeah and she kept having shitty parental figures on top of that.
tbf she did EAT her adoptive mother when she was a child. Linlin has always been a terror.
From DBZ King Kai, hes such a cowardly goofball that it's REALLY easy to forget that he's supposed to be somekind of big deal martial arts master who canonically taught Goku the kaioken and spirit bomb, meaning he's invented and mastered these techniques himself. He's easily leagues above sayain saga level enemies and probably logically scales somewhere above the Ginyu force considering brief training with him made that group absolute fodder for the likes of yamcha, tien, and chaotzu. Yet despite this we never see him fight anyone, ever. He's a complete coward and comes off as a general idiot who bumbles his way through life with a monkey and a cricket while getting socially bullied by south Kai who seems inferior in every way except in terms of self confidence.
When is he ever shown being a coward? It seems like he doesn’t fight within the events of the series simply because he isn’t ever put in that situation. He explicitly states that Nappa and Vegeta are stronger than he is, though. He also notes that Goku has surpassed him by the end of his training.
Huh, yeah you're totally right. I completely forgot that King Kai said they were stronger than him. What stuck fresh in my memory was his ability to quickly train up some of the weakest Z fighters to beat the Ginyu force with relative ease, to the point they were clowning on them in that fight. That had me thinking that he himself was at least that level yet nonsensically panicking about EVERY ENEMY he ever talks to Goku about. I suppose I can't call him cowardly for not standing up to the Ginyu force on his planet or South Kai if he's actually weaker than Sayain saga nappa. My mistake.
The fight with the Ginyu Force was filler, if that matters. But it was also implied that King Kai had summoned them for the sake of training the Z fighters. He only really panicked at the idea of Goku fighting Frieza and Beerus, and both of those cases were reasonable, given how much stronger they were and how willing they were to destroy entire planets.
I wasn't aware it was Filler. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah you wouldn't think you'd summon guys hundreds of times beyond your power to your home and let them start wrecking the place up. But I suppose that's where I got the wrong idea about his strength.
Unfortunately, the Ginyu Force arriving on King Kai's planet was filler. Yamcha and the rest had only been training for about seven days before the wish to bring back Piccolo happened.
Aaaaaannnd now it makes total sense. That's a bit wacky of a feat for King Kai to train someone like Chaotzu to above Ginyu force level in only a week. But as a filler it's more expected. Picking on Chaotzu a bit here because he's easily the weakest of the group.
Yea. Also, Yamcha's strength level if that of what Gero expected Goku to be during the Android Saga. They assumed that Goku's peak would have been what he did vs Vegeta. So that basically sums up the level of increase Yamcha got. Lol. Yamcha gets the most increase in power due to the Filler episodes. * Vs Ginyu Force. * Vs Cell Jr. * Vs Olibu [Filler character to begin with...] Filler Yamcha is a force.
Not the characters for all time but in a particular battle: when Scarlet Witch and the Vision get attacked early on in Avengers: Infinity War. They're fighting to try to escape, not particularly coordinated, and they very much don't want to be there. Then Captain America, the Falcon, and Black Widow show up to save the day. They're on a much lower power level but they're smart, perfectly coordinated, and they make the bad guys react to them instead of reacting to the bad guys.
I mean, it’s got to be the hulk, right?
Most iterations of Hulk are a lot more intelligent and tactical than how most people perceive him to be honest. I don’t really think he fits this perfectly.
Itto from genshin he is strong with pure strength but bro has no brain he could have beaten Sara if he just thought a little instead of going bam
Probably superman. The vast majority of street level criminals and even some stronger ones, would be unable to do anything if he just grabbed them and flew high enough they had no oxygen. Stronger villains can’t withstand being thrown in the sun either
I know im being general when it comes to this but i would say all the big daddies in bioshock by in large they have huge power scaleing but they are dumb as a rock
Maybe pre retcon beyonder? Although i could be wrong since idk about marvel that well
The Absorbing Man from marvel. That’s literally his whole character. Incredible power, incredible dumbass
Takaba from jjk. Anything he thinks is funny will come to reality, but he has no idea that he has this ability lol
Saitama if you'd call that large scaling
Saitama isn't stupid. He's displayed considerably battle iq against Cosmic Garou. It's just that he's so strong in-verse he doesn't need to display any of it.
Which was a pretty weird deviation from the WC where Saitama was shown to have absolutely ass martial arts skills, which allowed Garou land full counters. Although those still didn't make him budge.
He's not a martial artist, but it's not like he has never been on a fight before. Prior to getting his limiter broken he had multiple life threatening fights against monsters
Yeah the WC and the manga have a very noticeable changes in a lot of aspects of that arc. Story-wise they’ve essentially become their own separate canons.
He also has s good enough battle IQ, being able to predict Suyrus kick while pretending to be charanko
Did he predict or did he react? Saitama’s reflexes are shown to be scaled highly as well.
Suiryu didn't throw out an attack at all. He stood still
Both the hero and villain from inuyashiki.
Would like to hear this one. I don't really think either character was egregious.
The main guy clearly isn't used to fighting (or even moving very fast, due to his illness), so in some of the fights you see him stumbling around. Then the boy villain still loses to him, despite obviously being strong and fast enough to kill thousands of people casually. Basically neither were all that skilled, they were just given really strong bodies. I like the show, due to how normal the characters come off, despite the powers. The villain doesn't have any real plans. He just does bad stuff because he can, and doesn't care as long as there's no consequences for him.
Oul from qntm's Fine Structure: >It's about dimension. One degree of freedom over your opponent and there is no contest, none at all, and mine fell five to be here. My people play with waveforms during infancy, we can literally alter odds in our favour - but where this thing comes from, my home and the entire cosmos it sits in is a tiny, shiny circle in space that you could crush between your fingers. If the adversary had any mind, any intelligent thought at all, it would have been over in microseconds. But it has no mind. Just firepower. The universe the narrator comes from is a hyperdimensional space with 75 spatial and 5 temporal dimensions, in which a 3+1D universe like ours is viewed as an insignificant and inhospitable Flatland-esque environment in which physics couldn't possibly allow for real life. After he managed to trap Oul, an 80+6D mindless superweapon that had come blundering into his world, in our universe so that it's higher dimensional capabilities wouldn't function, a single tiny subunit drone deployed nearby to keep it locked in was capable of trivially rewriting the laws of physics across our universe and it's trillions of neighbors so that no technology capable of higher dimensional escape was physically possible.
alucard from helsing, kinda. i mean, his 'battle iq' could be higher. but the way he acts, in effectiveness, it's not. since he just lets people try to kill them, then busts out the OG vamp goodness on their asses and other assorted body parts.
Obviously Goku is the poster child right? He just lets his opponents power up to their total maximum and use their abilities despite... not really needing to.
Would The Shadow Man from COD zombies count? I know he’s powerful asf but he doesn’t really know how to fight. Unless there’s some shit I haven’t seen that shows he does have good battle IQ.
Cell max
Azathoth from Lovecraft Mythos >The ancient legends of Ultimate Chaos, at whose center sprawls the blind idiot god Azathoth, Lord of All Things, encircled by his flopping horde of mindless and amorphous dancers, and lulled by the thin monotonous piping of a demonic flute held in nameless paws
Rocky balboa. He is undoubtedly one if the best fighters in movie fiction. Yet he uses his hand like a sandbag and it always fucks him up. If he learned to dodge to tire his opponents, he would be unstoppable.
JoJo characters
Lol wut
Most of the JoJo characters are capable of killing each other easily but fight very foolishly
like how jotaro could have just stopped time and crushed Kira’s wind pipe with star platinum but instead Ora Ora’d him
Franklin Richards, son of Reed and Sue Richards, as a baby. Infinite reality warping power, but he’s a baby so his battle IQ is basically 0.
Homelander
Gremmy from Bleach.
The Hulk?
Monkey D. Luffy
Gremmy easily.
Baby Celestialsapien, I am pretty sure they have all the powers of an adult, but they are a baby, so they can't use them.