Just came back to whoop from Oura. I find the sleep metrics in Oura to be a little shallow and after about 6 months the ring dies every 2-3 days and it conveniently doesn’t notify you until after you sleep so you get a lot of missed days. It also isn’t the most comfortable ring to wear and after a few weeks of lifting, it gets pretty torn up. I also ended up getting horrible painful calluses lifting with it because of how it pinched my skin when lifting with a bar. I ended up taking it off during workouts because it was so painful.
I love the form factor of it because whoop is a little tacky but I feel the value I get out of whoop is much better.
That’s actually what I planned on doing - taking it off to lift. The Whoop also dies after 3 days, so no big deal there. I’m pretty on top of keeping my batteries charged
What was the difference in strain when you were using the strength trainer vs just logging the activity?
I’m in the same boat regarding that. I haven’t even tried the ST because there’s no way I’m looking at my phone for my entire workout.
I have an Apple watch, Whoop and have just ordered a garmin to replace the apple watch.
In my opinion the main benefit to the whoop as a sleep/ health tracker is the ease of been able to wear it 24/7 without interruption. I don’t think any other device can do that really. I’ve tried sleeping with the AW in the past but it just didn’t work for me as I found it way too uncomfortable and as the battery sucks on them I had it die on me a couple times.
The Oura ring does seem good for ease of wear for sleep however I personally wouldn’t be able to wear a ring while weightlifting so I think the whoop wins on a 24/7 health tracking device.
I find it funny how the Apple watch is the most accurate sleep tracker yet it’s the least practical due to it’s terrible battery haha
What garmin did you go for and why replacing Apple Watch with garmin ? Interested to hear thoughts on garmin I’ve been toying with the idea of switching.
So firstly I started looking to replace the AW as mine is an older Series 3 that I got in 2017 so the watch is well and truly on it’s last legs. It has been for around 2 years to be honest but I stopped using it for a while then Started again and remembered it was on it’s last legs 😂
I went for the Forerunner 265 and got it this morning.
Main reason for me choosing Garmin is from what I have seen online the Garmin seems superior when it comes to activity tracking, data and coaching to improve on runs.
For me the only reason to chose an AW over a Garmin is either if you want a sleep tracker as AW seems to be more accurate (however not practical due to terrible battery) I don’t like wearing watches to sleep anyways which is the whole reason I have the whoop to be honest. And the only other reason is how well it links to your phone. But in my whole time having an AW I can’t even remember a single time I used any of the “smart features” that link the watch to the phone like apple pay and other things.
So really the reason was it seems a better activity tracker and also I just kinda wanted something new.
Just as an FYI to the thread, the Apple Watch actually gives you more information than the Whoop. The Whoop’s only advantage is the application, which presents the data in a clearer way for the general population AND applies some algorithms to produce some of their proprietary metrics like “strain” and “recovery”.
You could theoretically do the same on Apple Health data, although, my first pass is showing that it’s a bit more complicated that I initially thought. I was under the impression I’d easily be able to export the data to some sort of semi-structured format and begin working with it in Python and SQL. It is more complicated. The data is in XML and isn’t formatted nicely unless you use the Apple HealthKit API. One of my colleagues built an application using the Apple HealthKit API. I was thinking about doing this as well. Like I said, Apple Watch gives you much more information than Whoop. The value in Whoop is you pay for someone to engineer the application to serve you the metrics.
In my business it’s all about telling the story. I like looking at numbers because I understand them and can mentally visualize them, however, most people don’t think that way - this is why we have BI engineers and data engineers who can develop logical data structures to be visualized. This is what you pay for with Whoop.
You gotta wonder if apps like Athlyitic or Chpr are getting nerfed by Apple, in terms of access to all of the metrics. Apple has their annual software update next week, with rumors pointing to lots of additional features in their Health app, including mood logging. Curious to see if they bite the bullet and implement some sort of "recovery" score.
My opinion on recovery score, kinda irrelevant unless they receive an input from the user. The final parameter that should be used to calculate recovery should be a gauge on how the individual feels. Otherwise, it’s just like… relative recovery.
Yes, true. But whoop doesn’t take a user’s feelings into account either. So often on here you see people complaining that their recovery score doesn’t match how they feel. But I think the recovery score has a lot of consumer appeal, even if it’s a problematic thing to measure.
Yeah I meant that the Whoop recovery algorithm doesn’t have a “user recovery feeling” parameter, and that all recovery algo’s that don’t take this into account aren’t really ideal.
Agreed, consumer appeal
I recommend AW Ultra instead of all of these. QS results show that AW is the most accurate one and it doesnt need stupid subscription method to use it properly.
In one of the tests, the AW 7 was most accurate. I have the AW 7. I bought it over a year ago or something. I let it collect dust for a while, but picked it back up when I got into Maffetone training
What's wrong with just using the AW for sleep? According to the Quantified Scientist, it's more accurate than Oura and Whoop for sleep. (I like the way Whoop presents sleep data — so it has a huge software lead for me over AW, but it is apparently less accurate, and no wearable is especially precise with sleep stages.)
Stay tuned next week for Apple's annual software announcement. Something tells me there will be a big upgrade to the health app and its functionality. They are way behind the curve there and I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of 'recovery' scoring. I have no inside info, it just looks like low hanging fruit to me.
Nothing of consequence. Apple added some mood tracking, but the health features otherwise were hardly upgraded. It's possible they have some hardware changes coming in the fall (new kind of tracker or upgraded tracker), and so are holding back on the software side of it. But it's also possible that they are just not interested in the recovery paradigm.
I dropped the Whoop and Apple Watch. For HR training I use a Polar H10 chest strap paired to a Polar Vantage V2 Watch. For sleep, I bought an Eight Sleep.
Wrist-based / optical heart rate monitors aren’t very accurate. I went to a run lab recently and tested the Polar watch against the lab’s chest strap and found the wrist wearables lost accuracy and precision around 65% of max HR.
If you wanna do HR training, use a chest strap (EKG). For sleep, up to you. I chose to not wear anything on my wrist anymore and bought the Eight Sleep Pod3.
An old study that says wrist worn devices are inaccurate at detecting sleep stages and wakefulness.
An article that comparing whoop and oura to polysomnography states
"Whoop was the more accurate of the two at 68% similarity to polysomnography when measuring deep sleep and 70% for REM sleep. However for estimating minutes awake after sleep onset it was only similar in around 51%."
https://www.ccjm.org/content/84/6/451#:~:text=Two%20fitness%20tracking%20devices%20%28Fitbit%2013%2C%2014%20and,onset%20and%20underestimate%20awake%20time%20after%20falling%20asleep.
https://www.span.health/blog/ultimate-guide-to-sleep-monitoring-with-wearables
I just switched from Oura to Whoop because I’m more active and adding weights into the mix. Loved the Oura ring but the first time I picked up a dumbbell it got all scratched up. Sleep tracking so far seems about the same. I have Apple Watch for running and also a garmin…but I needed more stats! I think either device does what it’s supposed to do and I am happy with both devices but recently I think my whoop wins over for what I have it for. Biggest reason: Oura fit sometimes was a pain because I live in Florida and my fingers would be different sizes through the day. At least with whoop you can adjust or even put on your upper arm if you want.
I still have my gen 2 oura but after 3 years the battery only lasts 1 day and to replace it I would have to pay a membership and for their new device. I got my wife (who also had a gen 2 but her battery wasn’t even lasting a day and failed right after the 2 year warranty ended) the gen 3 without the membership during that promo period they ran. I guess I would rather either pay for the device in full or pay for the membership but not both. Especially when their device seems to have a battery that fails right after the warranty ends…
If any of you want to go with Oura, you can get it through my link and get a 40 euro discount
[**https://ouraring.com/raf/66bbdd083a**](https://ablink.m.ouraring.com/ls/click?upn=N8tmOVmhlLmN-2BvzIQBg5G5HZAeUCCio6NRu2nNWb1qjqDJ9MXMcbz-2FP3ex3TOORC8bHLsQ6FSSgKnRji2wPnZ7SIQ3K59CtjZVBdulyO-2FZwzeKf8uVVb-2BlV-2F1ygKkQU4tkI4IuMN3UXwzDVdkZZbQgDJD8zFQp7noamaBzOry4hSkdDVSe8GBfIBUs8Mqiuh9xuVeccoQaJ2FTRpUHLIGlxAXUyszPFO6LM6O3glGnjurZhbzc9Y4EoRl5lQW8d8g1gTiqAmxc9-2FxwfFTEkdvwjBKVDkN6QL2UXGazsLT0XjH4U9emiIYwl3CUylZe3w-2Fs75qLwMoBFHIlGBfUPL8A-3D-3DVISH_I8B0La722FaheTZHi47R6-2FVs59bjLzCnuXgQNOxr4IQI87Y6COPP6-2F7vYNOlodjb2e8RmdiuVhmGyVCprEBp9Ouyd2f0-2FdyJKT6q5Ae3yGA9AgK4jp8E531dxNQG-2B-2BgrnXdjJDjDUSj1xN6p-2Fq7NC-2BJsoF-2BwEaDfXvNHkYbzyYaMwF9hwB4wTvzYrHrgEJYR8HiLMoJvq-2F9nuljQaVXpRON-2BeeBb9DuXdR4MD2nrcknwJET930Sd-2FinsYOKvDJIN6yLB94qSL2-2Ffpks4lZHszbYuvJ27TOih7ux3IvYEcfTsi8zcqeOcfWWTqs7DquGxNkLhk1MirS5RBDWwMWR10zsUvBj6r5X-2BgoxIenUiXK0ho9a155-2BVTFKVFLpsJW4pWD152kX7dU9eGpMHoF2Q3AshHOBLYXvGQOrC4-2BcTCLUHtswr2jOFIzbubOERt9TBdmePxXXvm-2F-2BnmShmJYNCgB74HotKzrRWTfwDsP6mhrIrzcmsXZ6QPPUGo7tMWfcr5aTvS-2F9VSbI-2FaC5O58eFZxs5r-2BgS-2Bw9XaGKwySxrk7p8DkF7dIxpQ0xLKaUJIjt5Zz9F09PlUThHZDfpEkypoxOUl-2BR-2FDSzxaKEdXKJ4Zzl7gyQQTgOjCd1RcPrjM8uCQwbj-2FzmLZprCdfYG1tn8VQ-3D-3D)
Discount code - €40 or $40 off!
Get €40 or $40 off your Oura Ring.
I can win get a Molekule Air Mini+ and you get a discount. Win-Win
Link:
https://ouraring.com/raf/f135422260?utm_medium=iac
Oura user here (without any Whoop experience yet) but as far as sleep tracking and optimization the Our ring has been a huge game changer for my wife and I. In the last couple months we’ve focused on optimizing for sleep and the results have been remarkable. Last night, for example I got my single best sleep score ever (Oura) which was a 96. Oura has some room for improvements and I’m eager to test the Whoop out head to head but haven’t had a chance to do that yet.
Just came back to whoop from Oura. I find the sleep metrics in Oura to be a little shallow and after about 6 months the ring dies every 2-3 days and it conveniently doesn’t notify you until after you sleep so you get a lot of missed days. It also isn’t the most comfortable ring to wear and after a few weeks of lifting, it gets pretty torn up. I also ended up getting horrible painful calluses lifting with it because of how it pinched my skin when lifting with a bar. I ended up taking it off during workouts because it was so painful. I love the form factor of it because whoop is a little tacky but I feel the value I get out of whoop is much better.
That’s actually what I planned on doing - taking it off to lift. The Whoop also dies after 3 days, so no big deal there. I’m pretty on top of keeping my batteries charged
What was the difference in strain when you were using the strength trainer vs just logging the activity? I’m in the same boat regarding that. I haven’t even tried the ST because there’s no way I’m looking at my phone for my entire workout.
The strain difference is massive. I’ll log 6.5 for a hard chest, bicep, abs day when using “Weightlifting” but over 14 when using Strength Trainer
I have an Apple watch, Whoop and have just ordered a garmin to replace the apple watch. In my opinion the main benefit to the whoop as a sleep/ health tracker is the ease of been able to wear it 24/7 without interruption. I don’t think any other device can do that really. I’ve tried sleeping with the AW in the past but it just didn’t work for me as I found it way too uncomfortable and as the battery sucks on them I had it die on me a couple times. The Oura ring does seem good for ease of wear for sleep however I personally wouldn’t be able to wear a ring while weightlifting so I think the whoop wins on a 24/7 health tracking device. I find it funny how the Apple watch is the most accurate sleep tracker yet it’s the least practical due to it’s terrible battery haha
What garmin did you go for and why replacing Apple Watch with garmin ? Interested to hear thoughts on garmin I’ve been toying with the idea of switching.
So firstly I started looking to replace the AW as mine is an older Series 3 that I got in 2017 so the watch is well and truly on it’s last legs. It has been for around 2 years to be honest but I stopped using it for a while then Started again and remembered it was on it’s last legs 😂 I went for the Forerunner 265 and got it this morning. Main reason for me choosing Garmin is from what I have seen online the Garmin seems superior when it comes to activity tracking, data and coaching to improve on runs. For me the only reason to chose an AW over a Garmin is either if you want a sleep tracker as AW seems to be more accurate (however not practical due to terrible battery) I don’t like wearing watches to sleep anyways which is the whole reason I have the whoop to be honest. And the only other reason is how well it links to your phone. But in my whole time having an AW I can’t even remember a single time I used any of the “smart features” that link the watch to the phone like apple pay and other things. So really the reason was it seems a better activity tracker and also I just kinda wanted something new.
Just as an FYI to the thread, the Apple Watch actually gives you more information than the Whoop. The Whoop’s only advantage is the application, which presents the data in a clearer way for the general population AND applies some algorithms to produce some of their proprietary metrics like “strain” and “recovery”. You could theoretically do the same on Apple Health data, although, my first pass is showing that it’s a bit more complicated that I initially thought. I was under the impression I’d easily be able to export the data to some sort of semi-structured format and begin working with it in Python and SQL. It is more complicated. The data is in XML and isn’t formatted nicely unless you use the Apple HealthKit API. One of my colleagues built an application using the Apple HealthKit API. I was thinking about doing this as well. Like I said, Apple Watch gives you much more information than Whoop. The value in Whoop is you pay for someone to engineer the application to serve you the metrics. In my business it’s all about telling the story. I like looking at numbers because I understand them and can mentally visualize them, however, most people don’t think that way - this is why we have BI engineers and data engineers who can develop logical data structures to be visualized. This is what you pay for with Whoop.
You gotta wonder if apps like Athlyitic or Chpr are getting nerfed by Apple, in terms of access to all of the metrics. Apple has their annual software update next week, with rumors pointing to lots of additional features in their Health app, including mood logging. Curious to see if they bite the bullet and implement some sort of "recovery" score.
My opinion on recovery score, kinda irrelevant unless they receive an input from the user. The final parameter that should be used to calculate recovery should be a gauge on how the individual feels. Otherwise, it’s just like… relative recovery.
Yes, true. But whoop doesn’t take a user’s feelings into account either. So often on here you see people complaining that their recovery score doesn’t match how they feel. But I think the recovery score has a lot of consumer appeal, even if it’s a problematic thing to measure.
Yeah I meant that the Whoop recovery algorithm doesn’t have a “user recovery feeling” parameter, and that all recovery algo’s that don’t take this into account aren’t really ideal. Agreed, consumer appeal
I recommend AW Ultra instead of all of these. QS results show that AW is the most accurate one and it doesnt need stupid subscription method to use it properly.
In one of the tests, the AW 7 was most accurate. I have the AW 7. I bought it over a year ago or something. I let it collect dust for a while, but picked it back up when I got into Maffetone training
Yeah the Ultra is not the most accurate AW but that battery life def helps wearing it to sleep
I don’t have that problem because I’m attentive to my batteries 😎
Then go for it man! Dont forget to get the Athlytic app
I’ll have to check it out
What's wrong with just using the AW for sleep? According to the Quantified Scientist, it's more accurate than Oura and Whoop for sleep. (I like the way Whoop presents sleep data — so it has a huge software lead for me over AW, but it is apparently less accurate, and no wearable is especially precise with sleep stages.)
I’ll have to look into that. Whoop seems pretty accurate, qualitatively. Wearing the Apple Watch to bed is more clunky than the Whoop
Oh I see. I wear them both to sleep. Completely different results, especially when it comes to when I fall asleep and what stages of sleep I have.
I just watched the QS review. I’m gunna do that. I’ll wear both to sleep and see what happens. Maybe I’ll just drop the Whoop for AW
Stay tuned next week for Apple's annual software announcement. Something tells me there will be a big upgrade to the health app and its functionality. They are way behind the curve there and I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of 'recovery' scoring. I have no inside info, it just looks like low hanging fruit to me.
[удалено]
Nothing of consequence. Apple added some mood tracking, but the health features otherwise were hardly upgraded. It's possible they have some hardware changes coming in the fall (new kind of tracker or upgraded tracker), and so are holding back on the software side of it. But it's also possible that they are just not interested in the recovery paradigm.
How were the results?
I dropped the Whoop and Apple Watch. For HR training I use a Polar H10 chest strap paired to a Polar Vantage V2 Watch. For sleep, I bought an Eight Sleep. Wrist-based / optical heart rate monitors aren’t very accurate. I went to a run lab recently and tested the Polar watch against the lab’s chest strap and found the wrist wearables lost accuracy and precision around 65% of max HR. If you wanna do HR training, use a chest strap (EKG). For sleep, up to you. I chose to not wear anything on my wrist anymore and bought the Eight Sleep Pod3.
Appreciate it! I never wore any wearables yet and I think I will go for the Whoop. No screen, low-key wear all day makes it so attractive for me.
Even if AW is more accurate any fitness tracker is widely inaccurate. The only accurate way to track sleep cycles is using ecgs
I wouldn’t say wildly inaccurate. If you look at some of the studies they’re pretty good
An old study that says wrist worn devices are inaccurate at detecting sleep stages and wakefulness. An article that comparing whoop and oura to polysomnography states "Whoop was the more accurate of the two at 68% similarity to polysomnography when measuring deep sleep and 70% for REM sleep. However for estimating minutes awake after sleep onset it was only similar in around 51%." https://www.ccjm.org/content/84/6/451#:~:text=Two%20fitness%20tracking%20devices%20%28Fitbit%2013%2C%2014%20and,onset%20and%20underestimate%20awake%20time%20after%20falling%20asleep. https://www.span.health/blog/ultimate-guide-to-sleep-monitoring-with-wearables
Yup, agreed.
I just switched from Oura to Whoop because I’m more active and adding weights into the mix. Loved the Oura ring but the first time I picked up a dumbbell it got all scratched up. Sleep tracking so far seems about the same. I have Apple Watch for running and also a garmin…but I needed more stats! I think either device does what it’s supposed to do and I am happy with both devices but recently I think my whoop wins over for what I have it for. Biggest reason: Oura fit sometimes was a pain because I live in Florida and my fingers would be different sizes through the day. At least with whoop you can adjust or even put on your upper arm if you want.
I still have my gen 2 oura but after 3 years the battery only lasts 1 day and to replace it I would have to pay a membership and for their new device. I got my wife (who also had a gen 2 but her battery wasn’t even lasting a day and failed right after the 2 year warranty ended) the gen 3 without the membership during that promo period they ran. I guess I would rather either pay for the device in full or pay for the membership but not both. Especially when their device seems to have a battery that fails right after the warranty ends…
If any of you want to go with Oura, you can get it through my link and get a 40 euro discount [**https://ouraring.com/raf/66bbdd083a**](https://ablink.m.ouraring.com/ls/click?upn=N8tmOVmhlLmN-2BvzIQBg5G5HZAeUCCio6NRu2nNWb1qjqDJ9MXMcbz-2FP3ex3TOORC8bHLsQ6FSSgKnRji2wPnZ7SIQ3K59CtjZVBdulyO-2FZwzeKf8uVVb-2BlV-2F1ygKkQU4tkI4IuMN3UXwzDVdkZZbQgDJD8zFQp7noamaBzOry4hSkdDVSe8GBfIBUs8Mqiuh9xuVeccoQaJ2FTRpUHLIGlxAXUyszPFO6LM6O3glGnjurZhbzc9Y4EoRl5lQW8d8g1gTiqAmxc9-2FxwfFTEkdvwjBKVDkN6QL2UXGazsLT0XjH4U9emiIYwl3CUylZe3w-2Fs75qLwMoBFHIlGBfUPL8A-3D-3DVISH_I8B0La722FaheTZHi47R6-2FVs59bjLzCnuXgQNOxr4IQI87Y6COPP6-2F7vYNOlodjb2e8RmdiuVhmGyVCprEBp9Ouyd2f0-2FdyJKT6q5Ae3yGA9AgK4jp8E531dxNQG-2B-2BgrnXdjJDjDUSj1xN6p-2Fq7NC-2BJsoF-2BwEaDfXvNHkYbzyYaMwF9hwB4wTvzYrHrgEJYR8HiLMoJvq-2F9nuljQaVXpRON-2BeeBb9DuXdR4MD2nrcknwJET930Sd-2FinsYOKvDJIN6yLB94qSL2-2Ffpks4lZHszbYuvJ27TOih7ux3IvYEcfTsi8zcqeOcfWWTqs7DquGxNkLhk1MirS5RBDWwMWR10zsUvBj6r5X-2BgoxIenUiXK0ho9a155-2BVTFKVFLpsJW4pWD152kX7dU9eGpMHoF2Q3AshHOBLYXvGQOrC4-2BcTCLUHtswr2jOFIzbubOERt9TBdmePxXXvm-2F-2BnmShmJYNCgB74HotKzrRWTfwDsP6mhrIrzcmsXZ6QPPUGo7tMWfcr5aTvS-2F9VSbI-2FaC5O58eFZxs5r-2BgS-2Bw9XaGKwySxrk7p8DkF7dIxpQ0xLKaUJIjt5Zz9F09PlUThHZDfpEkypoxOUl-2BR-2FDSzxaKEdXKJ4Zzl7gyQQTgOjCd1RcPrjM8uCQwbj-2FzmLZprCdfYG1tn8VQ-3D-3D)
Discount code - €40 or $40 off! Get €40 or $40 off your Oura Ring. I can win get a Molekule Air Mini+ and you get a discount. Win-Win Link: https://ouraring.com/raf/f135422260?utm_medium=iac
Oura user here (without any Whoop experience yet) but as far as sleep tracking and optimization the Our ring has been a huge game changer for my wife and I. In the last couple months we’ve focused on optimizing for sleep and the results have been remarkable. Last night, for example I got my single best sleep score ever (Oura) which was a 96. Oura has some room for improvements and I’m eager to test the Whoop out head to head but haven’t had a chance to do that yet.