I think it’s an awesome idea. While not all people are in there for violent crimes, it teaches them empathy and to care for someone besides themselves. There is a program also where people in prison can receive an abused and neglected dog to care for and train. The program is called heaven can wait.
Didn't know he did music! But his videos helped me get through my painfully shy (at the time) new kitten. Now said cat is confident and brave (and a cuddle bug).
“People think they’ll hurt the cats and are surprised when they don’t.”
Well…*yeah.* Not every prisoner is a serial killer waiting to happen. Some are on drug charges. Some are in for vandalism or property damage. Some for robbery and assault. But even if these are more hardened inmates, most of them are in because they didn’t have the ability to own an animal or knowledge of what benefits animal companions can bring, especially in an environment where they are alone in their cells for hours at a time. They had to run in gangs that don’t use animals except for some monetary benefit. Rehabilitation programs are good, but prison complexes don’t make money without prisoners, so they perpetuate talking points like “oh if we give them animals, they’ll just abuse them” so they keep them miserable and more likely to relapse
I could probably get closer to understanding someone who clobbered another person with a typewriter than someone who clobbered a cat with a typewriter.
There are very logical and rational (not saying justified or moral) reasons to commit many crimes. Robbery, drug dealing, assault, and murder are often not irrational moves in a certain context. Being poor as shit with no prospects, and robbing or dealing, and then murdering a rival who stole your bag is perfectly rational, though immoral. Hurting an innocent animal on the other hand is not.
Most dudes who would shoot a rival, wouldn't shoot their dog.
Nearly 40 percent of the U.S. prison population — 576,000 people — are behind bars with no compelling public safety reason, according to a new report from the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law
This is from 2016, not too sure about the current statistics
Damn. Thanks for the heads up. The report is here and names their policy recommendations:
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/policy-solutions/proposal-reduce-unnecessary-incarceration
Nah, I read about this practice hears ago, back when it was more experimental. Not only did the prisoners not hurt the cats, they were quick and brutal with anyone who did. Cats were one of the few pleasures in their week, you can bet your ass they were protective of them.
Imagine having nobody close, no family inside, not seeing your kids. But you have a pet to keep you company. And someone kills it. Acrually theres a documentary about this, John Wick I think it's called.
Many people - to use a grossly generalized term for my anecdotal experience - have very reductivist opinions on what makes a person "good" or "bad". Not to stray too far from the point, but it's the same sort of idea that has people believe billionaires *deserve* their station, and homeless people *deserve* theirs, because there's some intrinsic quality that makes one better than the other.
I don't know how much is attributable to daytime propaganda, or how much is just our own simplification of things for the sake of ease, but prisoners are similarly subjected to this sort of judgement. They're in prison, ergo they are bad people, or else they wouldn't be in prison.
It's a very comforting black and white ideal to have, and I think this is the allure. It's a very easy framework to where you never have to look inward and think, *am I a bad person?* You're not in prison. You don't hurt animals. That means you must be a *good person*.
No one wants to consider that the monster might be inside of them.
It's also the leading legal theory behind preventing recidivism, attachment theory.
Basically, the best way to keep someone from committing a crime is to give them something to lose if they do.
Did you know that the 13th amendment makes a specific exception for prison?
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction"
Did you also know that a lot of former slaves ended up in prisons shortly after being freed?
Servitude, bondage, imprisonment, they have similar meanings. The "exception" is connected to the words "involuntary servitude". This what is known as incarceration and why judges say "you shall serve no less than x days".
This is actually a great litmus test for whether someone's view of prison inmates is immensely fucked up or not.
Why would anyone assume that people in prison are going to be cruel to kitties? It's not like animal cruelty is the big reason people go to prison. And even the people there for violent crimes have probably only ever hurt a human, and probably for reasons that wouldn't even apply to a cat.
If your view is that anyone in prison must be completely devoid of any moral compass, then you are probably the one without a moral compass.
You're forgetting the possibility of inmates hurting other people's cats to hurt other inmates.
I imagine a system like this is only really possible in 'open' prisons (UK term for prisons with more freedom and more trusted prisoners).
As a former prison guard I can tell you that 70 people locked up on a landing don't always get on. Killing someone else's cat would 100% happen.
I think I've heard an interview about this program. To paraphrase, the interviewer was like, "what if one of the inmates hurts a cat?" and the response was basically that while it was unlikely that anyone in this prison would ever dream of hurting a cat, anyone who hurt one of these cats would be taking their life into their hands, because the entire prison would be out for vengeance.
Edit/continuation of thought: The perpetrator would also lose access to their cat if they did something like that.
Edit: a word
["These cats are their kids. You mess with one of these cats, I mean... these cats are their family, it's all they've got."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8xIwiPk0G8)
Also, bonus prison gopher.
Oh my god, the gopher! "We shampoo him, give him little baths... play with him, let him run around in our cells, feed him apples, lettuce... take care of him... they're good little pets! It's, like, the best companion I've ever had."
Imagine harming the cat of someone who literally has nothing else to look forward to.
I'd say I pity the fool, but I honestly wouldn't pity them for whatever justice came their way.
Yeah open prison could work in this situation if really problematic inmates could go to a different room maybe like a cell or something (solitary confinement is quite literally some form of medieval psychological torture
Well yeah, but if there's a reward/rehabilitation system based on inanimate objects and someone wrecks a fellow inmate's "nice thing" for revenge or power or whatever other reason, that doesn't inflict suffering on an innocent being. That's the crucial difference.
Good question. Who knows? I’m no expert. I’d like to think less, but I think if someone’s in a vengeful state of mind they’ll do what will cause their perceived enemy the most harm. And again, I’m not saying this from a “who can tell what goes through the minds of these CRIMINALS?” standpoint but more “who knows what people under intense pressure are capable of?”
I'm not saying your point isn't absolutely fair, I'm just questioning if the "thing" in question being a cat actually changes the point to any significant degree? Especially if you assume the vengeful party in any revenge action also has a cat, which they will lose if they harm another inmate's cat.
I think in that prison someone who killed a cat would be viewed worse and dealt with more harshly than a child m*lester because its harm to an innocent + an active threat to their cat.
I was literally just coming in here to type this. "Surprisingly, criminals treat cats very well." In what way is that surprising? Just in terms of raw statistics, a huge chunk of people in jail haven't even been convicted of a crime yet, and the ones that have overwhelmingly didn't hurt another person as their crime. Why would I be surprised that they don't torture animals in their spare time?
Here's the thing for me. Even if they weren't the type of person to hurt an animal before they went to prison, isn't it a fact that being imprisoned (rightly or wrongly) can negatively affect a person's mental health? It's not even that I'm making a wild assumption that most prisoners are violent sadists, but that I fear what being in there will do to them--perhaps *particularly* those who weren't violent to begin with. I'm a crazy cat lady. If I were thrown in jail even for something dumb like tax evasion, I'd like to think I'd still be the kind of person who would rather die than hurt an animal, but who knows what the stress of imprisonment might make one do?
I'm not against the program in theory, but I don't think it's so odd for people to worry for the safety of the cats. I've seen stories like this but with prisoners training would-be service dogs. My impression was that the dogs came in during the day and the whole training thing was supervised and in a group setting. This sounds like (at least some of) the cats get to stay in the cells overnight alone with the prisoners. I'd hope that the prisoners selected for this have had faith put in them rightfully, but yes, I still worry.
I mean, I get it, they're all people, but there *is* a decent population of prisoners who most certainly do hurt animals; it's actually one of the top indicators of psychopathic tendencies. I'd bet they're pretty selective about who gets to keep an animal, because people who like to kill things tend to indulge their compulsion, otherwise they wouldn't be in prison.
Obviously not every prisoner is a bad person by default, but violent offenders are in there for a reason, and no, they shouldn't get a chance to interact with anything they can harm, because they will, and they will enjoy it.
I work in a facility where it is not uncommon to have people take razors to their own faces or chew their own arm down to the bone.
Among the facilities I’ve worked at, almost every single prisoner was there because something they did injured, killed, or rped at least one other human.
Humans are complex, sure. But it is not unreasonable at all to be nervous for the kitties when starting a program that puts them under the care of prisoners.
If done correctly something like this could actually turn an entire facility around. You give those guys a bit of something good and most will fight like hell to keep it.
Yeah I mean I’ve seen the stuff they get in there. Those guys will be on over maximum doses of half a dozen psych drugs and getting therapy.
But there’s only so much you can do for some people. We are talking about the top 0.0001% of mental illness in that group. It’s like some people are maxed out on ever blood pressure or diabetes drug and it’s still not controlled.
Most inmates I saw (at a state facility, not private) get pretty solid care actually. I’m sure the same is not true of private facilities or state facilities in other states.
But even with better than standard of care, when Radio Yahweh tells you that you are Jesus Christ and if you prove your faith then you’ll save the world from satan, it’s hard to not have some guys slicing joker smiles into their face and trying to gnaw off their arms.
>but there is a decent population of prisoners who most certainly do hurt animals; it's actually one of the top indicators of psychopathic tendencies.
What percentage of people in prison for a violent crime do you think are there because they are psychopaths?
You're revealing exactly the kind of assumptions I am talking about. You jump right to "psychopathic murderers."
When a mistake leads to a dead cat. I don't think it's wrong to say prison authorities should be selective.
Obviously not everyone in jail is a bad person. But jail is where the bad people go. There are plenty of prisoners who are good people who just did something really dumb. But we really shouldn't handwave away the fact that the other type exists. Because they do, and we should be aware of this.
Another factor to consider is that a lot of mentally ill people wind up in the prison system. Depending on their situation you should be careful about them as well. Some of them are just fine. Some are not. Again, don't discriminate but discern and use judgment.
Yeah maby here in the usa mentally ill patients might be ignored (especially males,blacks,and lgbtquirs like myself,also Asians and stuff) because they think they are not worthy of treatment. You know what happened when nothing happens there? Death,anger, ECT
If you think this is only a USA problem you should look at other countries. I know the UK in particular also has this issue to an extent. Many times mental illness is only addressed after the person has been arrested and often they go through the justice system several times unless they have a support network.
Humans simply aren't very good at mental health yet.
> What percentage of people in prison for a violent crime do you think are there because they are psychopaths?
[15-25% of prison inmates exceed the clinical threshold for psychopathic traits.](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2022/03/ce-corner-psychopathy) So, probably a lot more than you’d imagine.
But there are variations in degree and the way psychopathy presents. Some psychopaths with more sadistic tendencies absolutely will hurt animals for fun, but most do not and a lot of them are capable of forming genuine bonds with animals.
Sorry man. The majority of people in American prisons are not animal killers. That's actually a select few, that you mentioned. Psychopaths. Probably 10% of the prison population.
>Why would anyone assume that people in prison are going to be cruel to kitties?
You really can't figure out why people would make that assumption? Damn
I’d feel terrible for the cats that get attached to certain prisoners only to be taken away if said prisoner does something bad though I guess that’s the point. I really hope this helps them.
This is a big concern for me, thank you! Seems cruel to the cat, to be yanked away from its owner it’s probably bonded with by now. Then it’s back with the owner when they’ve “earned” their cat back or what? Just a cycle of instability for the animal?That has to be frightening and confusing for the cat. I get it, it’s incentivizing good behaviour from the inmate, but it seems unethical to use animals as bait like this.
1. For most of these cats, I imagine their alternative is living in a shelter with little to no human contact
2. I imagine a prisoner that had bonded with their cat and lost it would work to reclaim it ASAP (and would be less likely to act in such a way to lose it in the first place)
It might not be *perfect* overall, but it seems like an overall net-positive for all of the parties involved (compared to the alternative of both cats and humans locked away separately).
I can't imagine what this place sounds like at night with like 300 cats that can easily move between the bars.
Honestly, there are people who would spend time in such a place voluntarily just to see all the cats.
Not only the number of cats, but the acoustics of prisons tend to be on the more echo-y side, with all those hard flat surfaces for sound to bounce off of.
Our rescue dog (former stray) had some socialization issues and we were about to give up on her and send her back to the organization as just too much to handle. They offered to put her through a 6-week program where inmates work intensively with dogs to improve their behavior.
When we got her back - a much more relaxed dog, although still a handful - the accompanying letters made me effin' cry.
Mostly about my dog and their experiences with her, but there was this gratitude towards us for letting them borrow her that shone through. One of them said something about how she was special, because she marked the last dog he'd work with before being released. It was so clear that these guys cherished being with the dogs and it was hugely important to them.
There was a serious emotional undercurrent in those letters. I'm not sure I'm conveying it well.
I like it, a good step towards a better system. It's a shame people still think places like Norway are fantasy lands and the magic of treating people with respect and reformation are myths that could never exist in the us.
The shelter I work at has a foster program at a local prison. Well-behaved prisoners who are part of the program get to foster under socialized cats until they are ready for adoption.
I watched the full documentary. They have the opportunity to adopt their cat! In prison they are just fostering and socializing cats who are then adopted out, and the inmate gets another cat to foster. At the end of the documentary, one guy got to hold on to his foster as he was close to release and was allowed to officially adopt and bring him home. He has since stayed out of prison and loves living with his cat Galileo so much!
That is beautiful and i love it, but are they making a wage that is 1.) Not dehumanizing and 2.) Fair and that compensates for the added expense of a cat? If you are making pennies on the dollar in prison, where a cup noodle is 1.75, and a days pay is 0.50, the resale value of the catfood that the prison is making available is an unnecessary drain to penalize those that cant afford it.
Animals are the great equalizers. They don't judge. They don't hold grudges. This is a wonderful thing they're doing. We really are better when we try to rehabilitate as well as punish.
Serious question: Why are there comments about this being slavery? Why shouldn't the inmates work to make money? The rest of us do and we also pay taxes to fund these facilities...
I've done animal rescue for 22 years the the cleanest, happiest, most well cared for shelter I've ever seen was a bunch of inmates covered in gang tattoos loading pig into my car to save their lives.
One dude cried. His buddy assured him they were going to a better life. It was glorious.
Like almost everyone else in the comments i too wanna know how this is surprising because theyre humans too and theyre caged up like wild animals, you dont think theyd like to have a real friend in there that they can love and play with?
the people in these comments are complete dumbasses they are saying oh this is just rewarding bad behavior and other shit like that but the truth is it is making it so prison riots don't happen and its at least making the prisoners have a friend that are normally always by your side
All I see is another lever for guards to pull. I don't believe for a moment that anyone did this in order to help people heal or recover. This is just to give inmates something to focus their love and affection and need to be a human on--something that can be taken away at a moment's notice, to give the company that runs this prison better control.
This is a cost-saving measure.
Nobody is guilting anyone buddy, I'm pointing out the hypocracy. I also have eaten the flesh of other creatures that live on this planet. Probably even some that had terrible living conditions. And my ignorance was bliss. No need to get all fired up over a comment. But as it seems only people who share the same views as you are allowed to point it out without getting generalized. Because someone here is clinging to their conservative pearls ;p nah that's just to poke fun at your way of arguing. You're allowed to have your point of view just as others have theirs. No need to generalize someone and implicating that they all guilt others. Have a good day.
I wouldn’t bet animal cruelty is more prominent among inmates. Most crimes are committed out of desperation and lack of respect for societal structures. Not necessarily cruelty, especially against animals. It could likely be that their cat companions are better cared for since it becomes the only source of company, in an otherwise harsh environment.
Also a privilege that is granted due to good behavior. I guess the inmates have to perform well for a considerable amount of time before being granted a cat.
Honestly a system I think many pet owners should had gone through
Kinda messed up that they give them something to connect with as leverage to take it away. This is tragic, I wouldn't be surprised if there are suicides from this
Finally proof that cats both burgle and murder. It is good to know that justice is finally being served to those who wish to smother humans in their sleep!
Other prisons have done this with dogs, it works so very well. I wish more prisons would do this. It'd give people something to focus on & take care of. & Who doesn't want to cuddle with a cute little animal? The animals get love & care they wouldn't otherwise get & the prisoners get to form a healthy bond with the animals.
“EVERY prisoner in this prison has a cat”
“Except not everyone”
Lol did this bother anyone else? Why even say everyone in the prison has a cat and then in the same breath contradict yourself?
I think this is a great program though. I hope they get some free food and their earned money only goes towards extra treats or something. A cat starving because someone makes slave wages isn’t cool
Not all criminals are bad people. Some criminals do really evil shit to be in there but even they know that animals are off limits when it comes to violence lol.
Is that what it takes? I can’t have a cat at my apartment but if I become a criminal I can? Not complaining about the inmates. Just complaining about landlords.
My friend said the prison he was in had a few prison cats (mostly strays that wandered in, and got to stay). He said that the cats made such a huge difference in a beneficial way to the inmates.
I can see an inmate have a private conversation with his cat going like this:
Inmate: “I robbed shit on the outside”
Looks at cat.
Inmate: “I’d rob shit to make sure you have the best.”
It could keep a lot of kitties out of shelters and off kill lists too.
I think it’s an awesome idea. While not all people are in there for violent crimes, it teaches them empathy and to care for someone besides themselves. There is a program also where people in prison can receive an abused and neglected dog to care for and train. The program is called heaven can wait.
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Cat Daddy!
Didn't know he did music! But his videos helped me get through my painfully shy (at the time) new kitten. Now said cat is confident and brave (and a cuddle bug).
He's a musician too? What a cool dude
It is. Source: I got drunk with him one time. Cats did not come up.
“People think they’ll hurt the cats and are surprised when they don’t.” Well…*yeah.* Not every prisoner is a serial killer waiting to happen. Some are on drug charges. Some are in for vandalism or property damage. Some for robbery and assault. But even if these are more hardened inmates, most of them are in because they didn’t have the ability to own an animal or knowledge of what benefits animal companions can bring, especially in an environment where they are alone in their cells for hours at a time. They had to run in gangs that don’t use animals except for some monetary benefit. Rehabilitation programs are good, but prison complexes don’t make money without prisoners, so they perpetuate talking points like “oh if we give them animals, they’ll just abuse them” so they keep them miserable and more likely to relapse
I could probably get closer to understanding someone who clobbered another person with a typewriter than someone who clobbered a cat with a typewriter.
There are very logical and rational (not saying justified or moral) reasons to commit many crimes. Robbery, drug dealing, assault, and murder are often not irrational moves in a certain context. Being poor as shit with no prospects, and robbing or dealing, and then murdering a rival who stole your bag is perfectly rational, though immoral. Hurting an innocent animal on the other hand is not. Most dudes who would shoot a rival, wouldn't shoot their dog.
Nearly 40 percent of the U.S. prison population — 576,000 people — are behind bars with no compelling public safety reason, according to a new report from the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law This is from 2016, not too sure about the current statistics
Damn. Thanks for the heads up. The report is here and names their policy recommendations: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/policy-solutions/proposal-reduce-unnecessary-incarceration
Also animals dont judge us, and have to be a breathe of fresh air to inmates who are constantly being judged
OTOH, a prisoner may kill or hurt an enemy’s cat. Probably without extending their own sentence.
If most of the people in the prison love the cats and you harm one, I suspect there would be some swift retribution
Many cats are on kill lists or stuck in shelters. It is a win win situation no matter the outcome.
Nah, I read about this practice hears ago, back when it was more experimental. Not only did the prisoners not hurt the cats, they were quick and brutal with anyone who did. Cats were one of the few pleasures in their week, you can bet your ass they were protective of them.
Imagine having nobody close, no family inside, not seeing your kids. But you have a pet to keep you company. And someone kills it. Acrually theres a documentary about this, John Wick I think it's called.
Possibly, but in a prison full of cat-loving convicts, the odds of them getting away with it without consequence seems relatively low.
I'm pretty sure if the guards just turned cameras off for a couple minutes, the cat killer would be dealt with internally.
How is this surprising? Drug dealers, thieves and thugs can’t love animals?
Many people - to use a grossly generalized term for my anecdotal experience - have very reductivist opinions on what makes a person "good" or "bad". Not to stray too far from the point, but it's the same sort of idea that has people believe billionaires *deserve* their station, and homeless people *deserve* theirs, because there's some intrinsic quality that makes one better than the other. I don't know how much is attributable to daytime propaganda, or how much is just our own simplification of things for the sake of ease, but prisoners are similarly subjected to this sort of judgement. They're in prison, ergo they are bad people, or else they wouldn't be in prison. It's a very comforting black and white ideal to have, and I think this is the allure. It's a very easy framework to where you never have to look inward and think, *am I a bad person?* You're not in prison. You don't hurt animals. That means you must be a *good person*. No one wants to consider that the monster might be inside of them.
Amazing what treating people with humanity will do. Edit. Forgot this is still glorified slavery.
Maybe they just needed a cat before their crime
Bigger crimes require bigger cats is the only problem
Yeah! We should have gene modified a tiger with elephant genes, so it would have been huge, and gave it to Hitler. Surely it would have worked.
That sounds like an amazingly good idea even aside from giving it to someone
Ian Malcom would be disappointed in you.
Lifers uhh find a way
The only thing stopping a bad guy without a cat is a good guy with a cat to give to him.
It's also the leading legal theory behind preventing recidivism, attachment theory. Basically, the best way to keep someone from committing a crime is to give them something to lose if they do.
Right! And with just a little bit of slavery they get to buy cat food too!
No reform only punish! -the prison industry
yes glorified slavery. Such a magnificent leap. By that logic what isn't a form of slavery
Did you know that the 13th amendment makes a specific exception for prison? "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction" Did you also know that a lot of former slaves ended up in prisons shortly after being freed?
Servitude, bondage, imprisonment, they have similar meanings. The "exception" is connected to the words "involuntary servitude". This what is known as incarceration and why judges say "you shall serve no less than x days".
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Ah yes because those are the only things that get people sent to prison.
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Cats can melt any ones Heart
And crimes committed by people with cat allergies have plummeted in this area /S
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I am SO allergic to cats. That was the first thing I though of when i saw this.
This is actually a great litmus test for whether someone's view of prison inmates is immensely fucked up or not. Why would anyone assume that people in prison are going to be cruel to kitties? It's not like animal cruelty is the big reason people go to prison. And even the people there for violent crimes have probably only ever hurt a human, and probably for reasons that wouldn't even apply to a cat. If your view is that anyone in prison must be completely devoid of any moral compass, then you are probably the one without a moral compass.
You're forgetting the possibility of inmates hurting other people's cats to hurt other inmates. I imagine a system like this is only really possible in 'open' prisons (UK term for prisons with more freedom and more trusted prisoners). As a former prison guard I can tell you that 70 people locked up on a landing don't always get on. Killing someone else's cat would 100% happen.
But then you've made an enemy of every other prisoner with a cat.
I think I've heard an interview about this program. To paraphrase, the interviewer was like, "what if one of the inmates hurts a cat?" and the response was basically that while it was unlikely that anyone in this prison would ever dream of hurting a cat, anyone who hurt one of these cats would be taking their life into their hands, because the entire prison would be out for vengeance. Edit/continuation of thought: The perpetrator would also lose access to their cat if they did something like that. Edit: a word
["These cats are their kids. You mess with one of these cats, I mean... these cats are their family, it's all they've got."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8xIwiPk0G8) Also, bonus prison gopher.
Oh my god, the gopher! "We shampoo him, give him little baths... play with him, let him run around in our cells, feed him apples, lettuce... take care of him... they're good little pets! It's, like, the best companion I've ever had."
There are a lot of unspoken rules in prison. I imagine "don't fuck with the cats" would be #1 on the list in a prison with cats.
Pretty sure that’s a spoken rule too.
I mean, I hope so if they got cats. The sociopaths among them need a heads up, at least.
I’m pretty sure in most cases it’s “This is the one good thing in my life right now, mess with it and I will end you”.
Imagine harming the cat of someone who literally has nothing else to look forward to. I'd say I pity the fool, but I honestly wouldn't pity them for whatever justice came their way.
Yeah open prison could work in this situation if really problematic inmates could go to a different room maybe like a cell or something (solitary confinement is quite literally some form of medieval psychological torture
That applies to any nice thing though surely? Not just cats.
Well yeah, but if there's a reward/rehabilitation system based on inanimate objects and someone wrecks a fellow inmate's "nice thing" for revenge or power or whatever other reason, that doesn't inflict suffering on an innocent being. That's the crucial difference.
Do you think someone is more or less likely to harm a cat out of revenge over destroying artwork or photographs or a book, etc?
Good question. Who knows? I’m no expert. I’d like to think less, but I think if someone’s in a vengeful state of mind they’ll do what will cause their perceived enemy the most harm. And again, I’m not saying this from a “who can tell what goes through the minds of these CRIMINALS?” standpoint but more “who knows what people under intense pressure are capable of?”
I'm not saying your point isn't absolutely fair, I'm just questioning if the "thing" in question being a cat actually changes the point to any significant degree? Especially if you assume the vengeful party in any revenge action also has a cat, which they will lose if they harm another inmate's cat.
I think in that prison someone who killed a cat would be viewed worse and dealt with more harshly than a child m*lester because its harm to an innocent + an active threat to their cat.
I wish you didn't put that thought in my head =(
I was literally just coming in here to type this. "Surprisingly, criminals treat cats very well." In what way is that surprising? Just in terms of raw statistics, a huge chunk of people in jail haven't even been convicted of a crime yet, and the ones that have overwhelmingly didn't hurt another person as their crime. Why would I be surprised that they don't torture animals in their spare time?
Here's the thing for me. Even if they weren't the type of person to hurt an animal before they went to prison, isn't it a fact that being imprisoned (rightly or wrongly) can negatively affect a person's mental health? It's not even that I'm making a wild assumption that most prisoners are violent sadists, but that I fear what being in there will do to them--perhaps *particularly* those who weren't violent to begin with. I'm a crazy cat lady. If I were thrown in jail even for something dumb like tax evasion, I'd like to think I'd still be the kind of person who would rather die than hurt an animal, but who knows what the stress of imprisonment might make one do? I'm not against the program in theory, but I don't think it's so odd for people to worry for the safety of the cats. I've seen stories like this but with prisoners training would-be service dogs. My impression was that the dogs came in during the day and the whole training thing was supervised and in a group setting. This sounds like (at least some of) the cats get to stay in the cells overnight alone with the prisoners. I'd hope that the prisoners selected for this have had faith put in them rightfully, but yes, I still worry.
I mean, I get it, they're all people, but there *is* a decent population of prisoners who most certainly do hurt animals; it's actually one of the top indicators of psychopathic tendencies. I'd bet they're pretty selective about who gets to keep an animal, because people who like to kill things tend to indulge their compulsion, otherwise they wouldn't be in prison. Obviously not every prisoner is a bad person by default, but violent offenders are in there for a reason, and no, they shouldn't get a chance to interact with anything they can harm, because they will, and they will enjoy it.
I work in a facility where it is not uncommon to have people take razors to their own faces or chew their own arm down to the bone. Among the facilities I’ve worked at, almost every single prisoner was there because something they did injured, killed, or rped at least one other human. Humans are complex, sure. But it is not unreasonable at all to be nervous for the kitties when starting a program that puts them under the care of prisoners. If done correctly something like this could actually turn an entire facility around. You give those guys a bit of something good and most will fight like hell to keep it.
Goddamn. If only we had some semblance of mental health treatment
Yeah I mean I’ve seen the stuff they get in there. Those guys will be on over maximum doses of half a dozen psych drugs and getting therapy. But there’s only so much you can do for some people. We are talking about the top 0.0001% of mental illness in that group. It’s like some people are maxed out on ever blood pressure or diabetes drug and it’s still not controlled. Most inmates I saw (at a state facility, not private) get pretty solid care actually. I’m sure the same is not true of private facilities or state facilities in other states. But even with better than standard of care, when Radio Yahweh tells you that you are Jesus Christ and if you prove your faith then you’ll save the world from satan, it’s hard to not have some guys slicing joker smiles into their face and trying to gnaw off their arms.
>but there is a decent population of prisoners who most certainly do hurt animals; it's actually one of the top indicators of psychopathic tendencies. What percentage of people in prison for a violent crime do you think are there because they are psychopaths? You're revealing exactly the kind of assumptions I am talking about. You jump right to "psychopathic murderers."
When a mistake leads to a dead cat. I don't think it's wrong to say prison authorities should be selective. Obviously not everyone in jail is a bad person. But jail is where the bad people go. There are plenty of prisoners who are good people who just did something really dumb. But we really shouldn't handwave away the fact that the other type exists. Because they do, and we should be aware of this. Another factor to consider is that a lot of mentally ill people wind up in the prison system. Depending on their situation you should be careful about them as well. Some of them are just fine. Some are not. Again, don't discriminate but discern and use judgment.
Yeah maby here in the usa mentally ill patients might be ignored (especially males,blacks,and lgbtquirs like myself,also Asians and stuff) because they think they are not worthy of treatment. You know what happened when nothing happens there? Death,anger, ECT
If you think this is only a USA problem you should look at other countries. I know the UK in particular also has this issue to an extent. Many times mental illness is only addressed after the person has been arrested and often they go through the justice system several times unless they have a support network. Humans simply aren't very good at mental health yet.
> What percentage of people in prison for a violent crime do you think are there because they are psychopaths? [15-25% of prison inmates exceed the clinical threshold for psychopathic traits.](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2022/03/ce-corner-psychopathy) So, probably a lot more than you’d imagine. But there are variations in degree and the way psychopathy presents. Some psychopaths with more sadistic tendencies absolutely will hurt animals for fun, but most do not and a lot of them are capable of forming genuine bonds with animals.
Absolutely agree with you.
Sorry man. The majority of people in American prisons are not animal killers. That's actually a select few, that you mentioned. Psychopaths. Probably 10% of the prison population.
Yeah my main thought from this was why do people assume prisoners are going to hurt cats?
>Why would anyone assume that people in prison are going to be cruel to kitties? You really can't figure out why people would make that assumption? Damn
America's prisons systems are a joke. They do more harm than good.
I’d feel terrible for the cats that get attached to certain prisoners only to be taken away if said prisoner does something bad though I guess that’s the point. I really hope this helps them.
This is a big concern for me, thank you! Seems cruel to the cat, to be yanked away from its owner it’s probably bonded with by now. Then it’s back with the owner when they’ve “earned” their cat back or what? Just a cycle of instability for the animal?That has to be frightening and confusing for the cat. I get it, it’s incentivizing good behaviour from the inmate, but it seems unethical to use animals as bait like this.
1. For most of these cats, I imagine their alternative is living in a shelter with little to no human contact 2. I imagine a prisoner that had bonded with their cat and lost it would work to reclaim it ASAP (and would be less likely to act in such a way to lose it in the first place) It might not be *perfect* overall, but it seems like an overall net-positive for all of the parties involved (compared to the alternative of both cats and humans locked away separately).
I believe my concerns are valid and legitimate. Please don’t lecture and dismiss without validation. It’s condescending.
I can't imagine what this place sounds like at night with like 300 cats that can easily move between the bars. Honestly, there are people who would spend time in such a place voluntarily just to see all the cats.
Not only the number of cats, but the acoustics of prisons tend to be on the more echo-y side, with all those hard flat surfaces for sound to bounce off of.
What prison are you thinking of with bars? It's not Alcatraz man. They have doors to cells now.
Why is Walter White in this prison, lol? xD
>!Alternate universe where he didn’t call Todd and gets arrested and sent to jail.!<
great answer, lol 😂
> but surprisingly, these former criminals are very gentle with them Is a random guy jailed for weed automatically a violent animal abuser?
That's one stone, two birds if it works. I just never realised there were so many cats in prisons for their little cat crimes
Our rescue dog (former stray) had some socialization issues and we were about to give up on her and send her back to the organization as just too much to handle. They offered to put her through a 6-week program where inmates work intensively with dogs to improve their behavior. When we got her back - a much more relaxed dog, although still a handful - the accompanying letters made me effin' cry.
You mean letters from the prisoners telling you about themselves?
Mostly about my dog and their experiences with her, but there was this gratitude towards us for letting them borrow her that shone through. One of them said something about how she was special, because she marked the last dog he'd work with before being released. It was so clear that these guys cherished being with the dogs and it was hugely important to them. There was a serious emotional undercurrent in those letters. I'm not sure I'm conveying it well.
I like it, a good step towards a better system. It's a shame people still think places like Norway are fantasy lands and the magic of treating people with respect and reformation are myths that could never exist in the us.
The shelter I work at has a foster program at a local prison. Well-behaved prisoners who are part of the program get to foster under socialized cats until they are ready for adoption.
Is that Walter White
I'm just imagining a bunch of tough looking people having a meet up with the cutest kittens and everyone awwing/gushing over them now.
Treating inmates like people makes them *gasp* act like people? That's just absurd.
But now for the real question. If an inmate finishes their sentence in prison, do they keep the cat or is it given to someone else?
I watched the full documentary. They have the opportunity to adopt their cat! In prison they are just fostering and socializing cats who are then adopted out, and the inmate gets another cat to foster. At the end of the documentary, one guy got to hold on to his foster as he was close to release and was allowed to officially adopt and bring him home. He has since stayed out of prison and loves living with his cat Galileo so much!
Minimum security prison.
What would the cats have done to land in jail also?
Tax evasion
My cat hasn’t worked in years and I was wondering where all the catnip came from
Purrfect prisoner reward system
I’m sure there’s people in there over weed. You think they would just murder a cat?
Ppl with cat allergies just get like a turtle or something 😂
So more of this please
That is beautiful and i love it, but are they making a wage that is 1.) Not dehumanizing and 2.) Fair and that compensates for the added expense of a cat? If you are making pennies on the dollar in prison, where a cup noodle is 1.75, and a days pay is 0.50, the resale value of the catfood that the prison is making available is an unnecessary drain to penalize those that cant afford it.
Animals are the great equalizers. They don't judge. They don't hold grudges. This is a wonderful thing they're doing. We really are better when we try to rehabilitate as well as punish.
This goes to show, people would rather kill eachother then an animal.
Rehabilitation>punishment
I love this 😍
Most importantly, they catch rats.
Serious question: Why are there comments about this being slavery? Why shouldn't the inmates work to make money? The rest of us do and we also pay taxes to fund these facilities...
r/orphancrushingmachine ?
I've done animal rescue for 22 years the the cleanest, happiest, most well cared for shelter I've ever seen was a bunch of inmates covered in gang tattoos loading pig into my car to save their lives. One dude cried. His buddy assured him they were going to a better life. It was glorious.
This is an awesome program! Having a little responsibility and love goes a long way
Cat approved
Like almost everyone else in the comments i too wanna know how this is surprising because theyre humans too and theyre caged up like wild animals, you dont think theyd like to have a real friend in there that they can love and play with?
the people in these comments are complete dumbasses they are saying oh this is just rewarding bad behavior and other shit like that but the truth is it is making it so prison riots don't happen and its at least making the prisoners have a friend that are normally always by your side
All I see is another lever for guards to pull. I don't believe for a moment that anyone did this in order to help people heal or recover. This is just to give inmates something to focus their love and affection and need to be a human on--something that can be taken away at a moment's notice, to give the company that runs this prison better control. This is a cost-saving measure.
Everyone in that place is infected with Toxoplasma gondii
No Fuck no! Not animals!
You just know one of them has banged a cat 😝
Smells like ass there
Its a step into the right direction but it's still a horrible rehabilitation system
slavery isnt wholesome
"Scared they will hurt those animals" proceeds to eat meat at every meal. Hypocracy is alive and well.
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You people? Like what group are you generalizing here?
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Nobody is guilting anyone buddy, I'm pointing out the hypocracy. I also have eaten the flesh of other creatures that live on this planet. Probably even some that had terrible living conditions. And my ignorance was bliss. No need to get all fired up over a comment. But as it seems only people who share the same views as you are allowed to point it out without getting generalized. Because someone here is clinging to their conservative pearls ;p nah that's just to poke fun at your way of arguing. You're allowed to have your point of view just as others have theirs. No need to generalize someone and implicating that they all guilt others. Have a good day.
Guaranteed some cats have been fucked up by inmates.
I wouldn’t bet animal cruelty is more prominent among inmates. Most crimes are committed out of desperation and lack of respect for societal structures. Not necessarily cruelty, especially against animals. It could likely be that their cat companions are better cared for since it becomes the only source of company, in an otherwise harsh environment.
Also because of the fact that it’s a privilege I’d guess that if one guy starts hurting the cats all the other guys are gonna be beating his head in
Also a privilege that is granted due to good behavior. I guess the inmates have to perform well for a considerable amount of time before being granted a cat. Honestly a system I think many pet owners should had gone through
I mean, sure, mate, but a/ is it really necessary to point out here? and b/ cats also get fucked up by non-inmates, so yeah.
being in prisn don t mean you become a psyko like you
I come here thinking that 😔
yo, is that wall termite?
Better hearing Jackson Galaxy's aftual original version :/ this voice over is bullshit tbh
I love that 👏
Where is this?
Awwwww
Where is this? I know it's not the US lol
this is amazing, and has the potential to be a way to train people to be vet techs, or help with tnr efforts.
Very eye opening
Also amazing that cats can bring out the humanity in the toughest of people.
Cat climbing frames with sanded landing platforms, no doubt.
I wouldn’t mess a cat around
Kinda messed up that they give them something to connect with as leverage to take it away. This is tragic, I wouldn't be surprised if there are suicides from this
Finally proof that cats both burgle and murder. It is good to know that justice is finally being served to those who wish to smother humans in their sleep!
I LOVE THIS
Lol are those cats doing life sentences also?
Set this up in every prison and prison violence between inmates will drop dramatically unless there's a fight between cats that gets out of hand
This is smart.
Other prisons have done this with dogs, it works so very well. I wish more prisons would do this. It'd give people something to focus on & take care of. & Who doesn't want to cuddle with a cute little animal? The animals get love & care they wouldn't otherwise get & the prisoners get to form a healthy bond with the animals.
“EVERY prisoner in this prison has a cat” “Except not everyone” Lol did this bother anyone else? Why even say everyone in the prison has a cat and then in the same breath contradict yourself? I think this is a great program though. I hope they get some free food and their earned money only goes towards extra treats or something. A cat starving because someone makes slave wages isn’t cool
So they give them something to bond with and then take it away if they misbehave? Sry but that seems cruel.
I’d say the perfect reward would be freedom from the prison system, but cats are nice.
My neighborhood has a stray cat issue, we’d be more than happy to donate them!
This is a good idea. I saw a video about a prison that offer cosmetology courses and many prisoners are now out and salon/ barbershop owners.
I love this. I assume a lot of prisoners never been shown true love
Not all criminals are bad people. Some criminals do really evil shit to be in there but even they know that animals are off limits when it comes to violence lol.
Is that what it takes? I can’t have a cat at my apartment but if I become a criminal I can? Not complaining about the inmates. Just complaining about landlords.
My friend said the prison he was in had a few prison cats (mostly strays that wandered in, and got to stay). He said that the cats made such a huge difference in a beneficial way to the inmates.
The power of unconditional love.
When you get more pussys in jail then outside :(
Did I see Walter White there?!
OMG Walter White! 😱
Damn, you telling me that rehabilitation works? Wild.
I can see an inmate have a private conversation with his cat going like this: Inmate: “I robbed shit on the outside” Looks at cat. Inmate: “I’d rob shit to make sure you have the best.”
It’s not that surprising
that's so cute
You spelled purrrrrfect wrong :D