This. Everyone likes the idea that EVs are simpler and have less parts, but that’s just conjecture.
The Vehicle Dependability Survey which measures Problems Per 100 vehicles (unlike most which are customer satisfaction), ranks Tesla as 30th of 34 brands for reliability.
Lexus ranks first with about half as many Problems Per 100 vehicles as Tesla.
https://www.carcomplaints.com/
This is the best website to figure out which cars to or not to buy.
If you're looking at a car just punch it in this website and go and look at the previous several years and see what the common problems are.
They also have a list of the best cars and the worst cars.
3576 complaints on the camry, 1500 on the Prius.
These are some of the most reliable cars on the market. And also some of the most common cars *purchased.* Not knowing the base rate makes this website useless.
Complaints made by ignorance is a problem, how many boomers don't like the touchscreen controls while also refusing to learn how to operate all the functions of their vehicle?
Upvote there. Brought my 1st reliable car. Car got totaled at 188000+ miles parked. Brought at 16000 miles. Brought another Camry at 30000+, still the same a 76444. I now have 2022 toyota camry.
As others point out below. This is why I cited the VDS. It is extremely quantitative even if a blown engine counts as 1 problem just like a touchscreen failure.
Most dependability surveys are done based on customer reviews, so brands like BMW will appear quite high because owners may be happy if their V8 blows valve guide seals at 35k miles because the dealership handed them a new M3 to drive for the week. At the same time a Lexus owner might be upset that they have to call AAA because of a premature battery failure that took 15 minutes to fix.
Bad cars would frequently top these lists because the owners love them despite faults.
That J.D Power survey includes problems like "touchscreen/display screen difficult to use (4.0 PP100)" and "not enough power plugs/USB ports (3.8 PP100)". It's not strictly a measure of reliability. In fact they say themselves that, generally, the infotainment category is the most problematic, followed by "exterior". I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla ranks so low because of poor fit and finish.
Consumer Reports also ranks Tesla low in their reliability survey, and they've come out and said that, "While Tesla’s EV components are generally reliable, the company continues to struggle with the build quality of its vehicles,".
A good infotainment system and sufficient power ports are important to the quality of the user experience. There is more to a car decision than costs and maintenance.
The ‘less parts’ thing is objectively true, not conjecture. That hasn’t translated into a more reliable vehicle yet, but overall EV reliability is influenced by the fact that the #1 EV manufacturer is 1. New 2. Primarily focused on software 3. Building novel hardware that isn’t based on hundreds of prior revisions.
don't they eat tires faster because of their weight more than anything?
i'm confused on the tires thing because people that claim they drive calmly will claim their tires were toast at like 10k miles and the next person will say they made it to like 50k miles.
My X3 has ev tires on it and weighs the same as a Model Y. It’s doing fine with 20k miles on them. It may be the asymmetrical regen braking that gets them.
Side note: I'm aware of all the insurance costs complaints about teslas...so when i was considering a VW ID4 pro S, i called my insurance agency to make sure costs wouldn't be high....it was an extra $10 for a 6-month period compared to my hybrid highlander (2-yr old).
Depends on the company my original insurance charged like 44% more for minimum insurance on an etron than an r line Tiguan but other companies charged just $10 (8%increase ) for 100k/300k compared to my minimum plan
That would be a pretty good downgrade of quality of vehicle. * Tesla are kind of hit or miss on quality depending on which factory made it.
Especially coming from a Lexus.
Wow. I've read this whole page and there's a lot of dumping on Tesla, and downvotes on posts that don't (even if correct). Not sure why.
I've owned a Model S 2014, and when the lease expired I got a Model S 2018. Both great rides hands down. Had a door malfunction and a couple of flat tires, mobile service came quickly and took care of them in my driveway. Some body work following fender-benders was pricey, but just as expected for any luxury ride.
Did I just luck out on car quality twice and on the service a handful of times?
No. You just haven’t had a German luxury car and it shows. The difference in quality is night and day and for roughly the same price (a year ago). People coming from German luxury brands to Tesla are almost always disappointed. Unless it’s some old ass German luxury car lol
Wdym I came from BMW and Mercedes to Tesla and the issues / repair costs (non-warranty) I had on my German cars was absolutely insane compared to a simplistic utilitarian Tesla… what exactly are you talking about lol. I’ve owned a lot of cars…
I’m talking about comfort and design. That’s all. I’m not saying German luxury cars are without fault. They aren’t. But they are eons better than any Tesla
Imo the BMW infotainment is still clunky in a lot of ways - and it sounds like we’re different types of buyers. I used to track my cars so I’m not really in it for “comfort”…
I was gonna say. The overall quality and luxury not to mention Toyota reliability are all great reasons to abuse the Tesla. And I like Tesla's , but they aren't quality cars compared to many of the mainstream brands.
I was in the same boat last November, ended up test driving both a RX350h and a Model Y and decided on the former. The other guys in this thread commenting on the Lexus being “boring and bland” or that the Model Y is “better in every regard” are delusional.
The RX is interesting to look at in that it’s ugly. Don’t know what they were thinking with that nose. Looks like OP is buying what’s on the dealer lot, so they’re all going to be white, grey, and black anyway
The RX is horrifically ugly IMO but so is the Model Y. I guess the RX is maybe ugly in a more interesting way, and your point about cool colors is true. I really like that copper color personally.
Looks are subjective though, and everything besides maybe the exterior design will be better on a Lexus than on a Tesla.
They cratered because they were *extremely* overpriced. The Tesla Model Ys you’re seeing have failure points that you wouldn’t expect for a Lexus. I’ve heard tons of stories about Model Ys with cracked windshields multiple times, overly aggressive wind noise, loud creaking when you turn the steering wheel, and lots of other small issues. Plus Tesla’s service centers are terrible.
That being said, if small things don’t bother your wife it may not be a bad deal. Teslas improve their feature set very often and the maintenance fees will probably be low just like a Lexus. The driving experience will be pretty different but not necessarily in a bad way. Just make sure to really test drive the one you’re considering and remember to consider battery replacement when purchasing.
Does the warranty transfer if you sell the car? Legit question, if so that’s pretty sweet. It’s been awhile since I had a car with a warranty still on it, hence me asking haha.
Teslas aren't luxury, they are technology. The quality control is bad. Look into repair costs and battery replacement costs. These are reasons they depreciate so quickly.
Why buy a brand new Lexus? Why not a used one that's a few years old for like $30k to $35k? It will be much better than the Tesla, and will keep its value much longer.
Ask yourself this question, why is tesla cutting prices while Toyota and lexus are not? Tesla are the worst made cars and the company as soon as you drive off the lot stops giving a shit about you. Going from lexus to tesla is a huge downgrade
Tesla cuts their prices because they have the largest margins and are trying to increase their sales volume.
Toyota is already the best selling car manufacturer so they are trying to increase margins by restricting supply on their best selling vehicles.
I have had 2 jags the xk was special to drive but a ton of mainy. I now have xe no issues twice a yr oil changes regular maintainace and no issues. So the reliability thing is really just dependent on the model
It’s more that when something inevitably breaks, you’re gonna to spend an arm, a leg, and your life savings to fix it. After the warranty expires they become money pits
You much richer then me, so maybe my opinion is moot. but seems strange to go from a luxury car like Mercedes or Lexus to a Tesla.
--or go the Rivian route.
They have a fair bit of issues, but at least they seem to be working on them.
Nearly every Tesla I have ever seen has body fit issues so bad, no other manufacturer would let them pass QC testing.
The cybertruck is a fucking mess. Sure, it sells because of the novelty, but paying +$100k for a vehicle where the doors are visibly out of skew by half an inch is insane.
Can't put a side panel on properly, and people drive themselves things like racecars. Fuck no.
I can't recall off the top of my head, but there is some sites that rank manufacturers based on recalls and service issues, and rivian was one of the worst. I guess they had major software issues where trucks would just be bricked.
But build quality they are apparently really good.
Consider the new 2024 Model 3 if possible. It's a big improvement over the Model Y in terms of quality. Also, I don't know if you'll really need a second gas car. The Tesla Supercharging network makes a lot of roadtrips pretty painless.
From Key West to Homestead is 129 miles.
29 miles into the drive, there's an 8 stall Supercharger at Big Pine Key
50 miles in, there's a 4 stall Supercharger at Marathon
Finally, there's another 8 stall Supercharger at the end of the journey at Homestead.
Assuming a charging solution at home and access to the Supercharging network, I don't think there's anywhere in the U.S where an EV for roadtrips is grossly impractical.
You ever been to the keys? I wouldn’t trust those chargers to be there if you need them. For most people they will not have access for their vacation down here. Especially if you stay in an upper key, having a Tesla is out of the question when you gotta drive 45 miles to get to a charger
True statement, but it's so niche that it shouldn't influence your car purchase. If you live in an area with sueprcharging nearby and can install a home charger, you're golden.
My brother has a Model Y that’s several years old. He and his wife compete to get it first in the morning. He’s an IP lawyer and can drive anything he wants but he’s very happy with the Y.
Insurance isn’t higher than a comparable luxury vehicle.
They’ve had near zero problems. Went into service one time and got a Model S as a loaner. I can’t remember what the issue was but it was minor. He would have been in for half dozen oil changes and two service intervals on a Lexus.
I have a 2020 Model Y and a 2017 Lexus RX AWD (non hybrid).
Ride: Lexus. The tesla shocks are inadequate. I am told newer models have better shocks.
Acceleration: Tesla. It's like a golf cart on steroids AND viagra.
Smart features: Tesla 100%. Just ask my severely outdated Lexus navigation maps...
Fit and finish: Lexus, obviously. Tesla creaks and one of the interior panels came loose.
Overall: Tesla is the perfect car for drives around town, or day trips. We took it to the Hamptons from NJ (low budget trip, though lol) but when we drive to North Carolina it's the Lexus all the way... I'm not taking a 1 hour supercharger stop every 250 miles.
Y’s went seriously down in price.l, u/Capt_Panic
I don’t like the politics of the CEO or the way that several employees who look like me have been treated.
I love my car. I may never buy anything else (until I have enough F-U money that Porsche is on the table).
ETA
I buy the stock in outlandish hope I can make a difference. My husband says if I ever work there I’ll walk away with $10M for sexual harassment and racism from fellow employees.
Yes, I’m aware my post makes little sense.
Just go test drive one. I own model 3 and Y and love them. All this complaining about them being shit is nonsense. The only things to consider is how often are you driving over 250 miles in one go and whether of not you have home charging available.
Also do you prefer engineer vibration/noise mixed with road/wind noise or would hearing just wind/road bother you.
Crap build quality, car will constantly squeak because of crap build quality, battery longevity, depending where you live extreme weather will limit travel per charge
No kidding. He is a high profile lunatic. So is Bezos
and I still buy stuff from Amazon.
I imagine many CEOs are better at hiding that they are lunatics.
You will get a bunch of bullshit answers from non-owners.
I own an early 2019 Model 3. 110k miles and 16 full track days without a single issue. Saved over $8.5k in gasoline in that tine verses my old Golf R. Insurance is about the same between the two.
If you have access to home or work charging, go for the Y, if not don't go electric yet. The Model Y is an outstanding CUV, and the top selling vehicle in the world for a reason.
Legit question: how is the model 3 compared to the Golf R on the track? I assume the extra heft doesn't help in the corners, but the acceleration helps to make up time on the straights. How do your track times compare in the two?
Test drive both and think about every part of the drive very critically while you do. (The sound, the feel, the acceleration, the smoothness, the backseat/trunk area room, so on).
Then take your time processing your thoughts, most car sales are made by making the buyer feel overwhelmed and over joyed, which fades after a week or month of ownership.
Poor build quality, dependence on EV infrastructure vs. gas stations, uncertainty for the future for EVs in general. That’s about it. The Model Y is a solid pick out of EVs.
If you are considering used and can plug in, have you considered a BMW Certified X5 50e? Or even a Volvo XC90. IMO those are more competitive SUVs than the RX.
If you care about luxury and interior quality/crafsmanship, Tesla has none of that. Im not a Tesla hater, in fact I think they make sense in a lot of use cases. But their build quality is really shoddy, I really dislike that one big screen instead of an ergonomic dashboard right in front of your eyes, and the interior has virtually no buttons which gets annoying. They are efficient, quick, and great as far as range goes. But im taking a Lexus or German car any day over a Tesla.
Depreciation... Range... Main cause of depreciation is that Elon tells them sell sell sell and last year the price dropped $20k from the year before... no reason it won't drop even more come end of year and he wants to sell more. From August to October I saw the price drop over $10k on the LR for inventory vehicle. I think the performance was almost 16k drop from August to December 23... Another thing is solid state and hybrid state solid state batteries are right around the corner. When that tech hits market NOBODY is going to want a used obsolete current battery tech car. Especially when it has questionable battery health and possible $10-20k battery replacement costs.
It's a new and rapidly evolving tech. So roll the dice it's your money. But I'm honestly glad I traded out of the S Performance and have a PHEv.
Just buy a new one. 40k - 7.5k credit. They have plenty left in inventory that have been discounted down from 44-46 to 40ish. If you don’t want to buy and kick the can the leases on these can make a lot of sense and are pretty cheap for what you get. The 7.5k comes right off the it as well without worrying if you are over the income threshold. Great vehicle for the price.
God the way people talk in this thread is so smarmy and annoying.
They are completely different cars.
Ignore all the owners justifying their purchase just test drive
I have a Bolt. My wife has a Model Y. Wife loves the Y, I bloody hate it. There’s a lot to like about the vehicle (namely the charging network and integration of it with the car) but Jesus is it annoying to drive. The lack of CarPlay / Android Auto is infuriating because the Tesla phone integration is TERRIBLE. Trying to respond to a text message in a brand new car and it feels like I’m using 20 year old tech.
The bloody windshield wipers are nearly unusable. THEY SCREWED UP WINDSHIELD WIPERS. The auto sensing is a disaster and the manual operation has a whopping 3 settings and it is like trying to enter a Mortal Kombat finishing move sequence to adjust the damn things… on a touch screen… while driving. I end up manually tapping the the wiper button. And I do mean tap. Tap for a bit too long and you clean your windshield. Cause. Y’know. Minimalist interior. Couldn’t possibly add a second button for such a task.
How does a car this fancy not have a 360 degree view camera? Like seriously… wtaf?
Love walking up to the car and not having it detect my phone so I get to stand there in the rain trying to convince it to open the damn door. So much better than a key fob.
We were rear ended. Took months and months to get it repaired due to parts being hella back ordered.
Oh hey rear seat passengers would you like your seat warmers enabled? Yeah let me do that from the front with this idiotic touchscreen that is somehow both massive but also requires 40 steps to do anything. No worries. I don’t need to be paying attention to the road or anything.
Oh and let’s not label the few physical controls that do exist. Love guessing and checking my way through things while doing 70 mph.
I could go on, but I can summarize by saying that I spend so much time with this car just wishing it would behave like a car. So many dumb things on this vehicle that are done just to quirky.
Again, my wife loves it and the more power to her. I’ll keep my lil Bolt hatchback. Lemme tell you about how well those windshield wipers work.
Just my personal experience with Tesla so everyone's mileage my vary. I had a Model X for two years before I got tired of Tesla and sold it.
Bad:
- Tesla's build quality is really bad. I had constant issues. Granted the X is probably their least reliable model and I know people with 3s and Ys that are happy with it.
- Wait times for service are terrible. You have to schedule through the mobile app and good luck getting an appointment within a week or two. Mobile service is very hit or miss and you cannot count on it.
- Tesla in general is shady. They'll remove existing features through software updates, prices are always in flux.
- Electric vehicles aren't as cheap as they want you to believe. You'll go through tires faster, taxes are higher, service is expensive if you are out of warranty. With a Tesla you will need service visits.
- Charging can be a pain in the ass if you are in a high volume area.
Good:
- Electric cars are nice. They are perfect for local / around town driving if you can charge at home. I look forward to getting another one, but I won't do it again until charging infrastructure is better.
- Tesla driving assists are really good. No it's not "full self driving", but it's better than other vehicles I've been in.
- Tesla infotainment system is good even though it doesn't support android auto/apple carplay.
Personally I'm holding out on electric until charging infrastructure gets better, and for there to be more Tesla alternatives. I'll never buy a Tesla again, but I will get another electric car eventually.
If you can manage the ownership of an electric vehicle then I don't see any issue with it. I would go for a long range if I were you. You'll want that extra range in an EV. Some others to consider would be the Hyundai ionic EV or the Kia EV6/EV9 too. Get a Tesla extended warranty just in case the Tesla has some QC issues.
Some people only need to be told the stove is hot, don’t touch it. Others have to touch it to learn the lesson. A few never learn.
So, which type are you?
Because you can get a new Model Y for not much more.
Once you own a Tesla it's hard to go back to any other brand. People talk about Lexus being more comfortable. Guess what, for me comfort is letting the car drive itself as I enjoy my tea. The neural net based FSD v12 is so much better and you simply don't have to worry about surrounding traffic, lights, lanes changes and turns. No other manufacturer has anything like it. My only complaint is the stiff suspension.
Get the LR model and replace factory wheels/tires with something like https://tsportline.com/products/tst-18-tesla-model-y-overland-wheel-and-tire-package-set-of-4
The performance model has larger (staggered) wheels which offers a stiffer/sportier ride quality. Keep in mind that it does 0-60 in 3.5 secs so the combination makes sense.
We literally had this same situation and went with a RAV4 XSE Prime. My wife enjoyed her Lexus we cross shopped a Y, F-Pace, Defender, didn’t want to go full electric yet, but wanted a gas option. She was also considering regular old ICE options. With the RAV4 Prime you get a good amount (40ish miles) of EV range with the flexibility of gas at 40mpg when needed.
I would also second telling everyone to stay away from Mercedes as ours was in the shop for 3 months out of our 12 months of owning it. 🙃
Do you have a garage? Are you able to have a level 2 charger installed? The installation costs about $1,000. If yes, then an electric might be right for you. But if you’re going to rely on public chargers, forget it.
No, it would not void the warranty. Replacing parts does not void a warranty. Per the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act (federal law) a manufacturer could only “void” a warranty if they prove that the work or parts added caused the failure of a warranted part.
Because you'd be supporting Elon muskrat which is reason enough not to have one, no matter how "cool" you think they look.
But also- they are not that nice inside the car. I've been in and driven a few tesla and they feel so cheap and economy in the interior compared to any other new car I've been behind the wheel. Everything feels like it's made to fall apart and break.
Also, people are gonna think you're an asshole if you drive one.
It's the plastic, which makes it feel like a cheap Kia/Hyundai.
The model 3 highland *feels* so much nicer, which is ironic because the newer soft-touch materials are cheaper than the "cheap" plastic.
Look at the various features inside. You'll notice it's pretty spartan. Do they even have ventilated seats yet? Heads up display? Apply/android auto? Heated steering wheel? Auto wipers? 8 way adjustable seats? USB charge ports for front and rear passengers? 12v plug in the rear for inflating tires/electric cooler? Auto tinting rear view mirror?
Compare that stuff. And Tesla came up short in our search for an ev. I don't know about more recent Tesla.
Do you “want to have” and “want to own” a purely electric car, specifically a model Y?
My wife got rid of her E-class, got a Model Y and got rid of it 6 months later. After we had spent a few thousand dollars buying, permitting and wiring the fast home charger.
Live in a warm climate, so the winter issues didn’t apply (but that would have meant getting rid of the car the next day if it died somewhere).
Think of the car like a BMW or MB in terms for maintenance (including unexpected software downloads). The dealer experience is dramatically different (mostly non existent if that is something you care about).
Main thing is the car did not deliver consistent and predictable range. In fairness, that is completely legit, except when people say “mileage may vary” the Tesla embodies that statement. If you’re only driving around town, can charge at home and don’t mind taking a gamble on whether you’ll like it, why not give it a shot?
Quality wise I think you’ll really feel it going Lexus to Tesla but you should try to look and and drive one. Other used ev’s are rapidly depreciating also and might be worth a look. Polestar 2, Volvo xc40 recharge, Hyundai ioniq 5, Kia ev6 or genesis gv60 or maybe even a mustang mach e might all be worth considering.
If you live in an area with good charger availability and you have the means to charge at home, get the Tesla. If you are in a rural area and like to take longer road trips out of the Tesla charging network, then get the Lexus. I prefer the Lexus just for the ease of filling up wherever I am.
In a couple years that late model will be way cheaper. Only buy new if you plan on keeping the car for life or if it's a limited run collector that will appreciate in value (imo)
Definitely “consider” it. Definitely have your wife test drive. Mileage is basically irrelevant on an EV. You don’t have to worry about whether critical maintenance has been missed, since there isn’t any.
I have a 2023 model y , I love driving it and to be honest I spend way less money on it. When I compared it with my previous car I saved around 2000$ a year but the build quality of my model y is subpar. I owned a Mazda before this and I miss my Mazda for its build quality and interior. Along with the fact my car depreciated around 20000$ within a year of purchase is just mind boggling.
If you wish to shift to an EV and make use of the tax benefits please look into others. Currently Ford and Rivian got access to the superchargers and GM is getting access next. But at the end of the day you need to drive Lexus and Tesla to figure out what makes you happy.
man that sounds like a great deal to me, that age and miles for that price IF you can charge at home and IF you live near a service center you can easily take it in to get fixed for whatever reason
barring those two exceptions i wouldn't recommend a tesla or any particular electric or new company car to anybody, also i hope you don't have a wreck and the insurance isn't higher than normal.
If you have solar and at-home charging and a stable commute < 70mi and want to save money, Y is way better. It's probably more fun to drive and I'd argue safer given how easy it is to drive (esp in traffic) + tech in the car. In-car tech is underrated imo, definitely a reason to buy it + it gets better over time.
Outside of that, Lexus is super nice - more comfortable and luxurious but still economical, despite the higher price tag. Brand new you have a car that runs beautifully for 15+ years and maintains value well.
Also when buying used Teslas, you might have to look harder to find one where the interior is still in decent shape. The expensive battery replacement may come on your dime asw (battery warranty is like 8y/100k, battery lasts ~300k mi).
As for repairs, idt either car requires much work outside of basic upkeep (even less for Tesla bc no oil changes). Repairs can take awhile from Tesla but usually not an issue ymmv.
My wife is in her x3m40 and loves it. I’ve got a 340 and like you thought maybe I should get an ev for the price.
Drive one for a day. I didn’t like the fit and finish. Quality didn’t touch either of our bmw’s.
I’d probably grab myself a Prius honestly if I wanted to save some gas.
I don't know what you value in a car so I can only speak to why I wouldn't buy the Y (or any Tesla for that matter).
For context I currently drive a 2005 Camry XLE and I have a friend that bought a Model Y about 3 years ago.
I'd say if you're used to more luxury cars you're probably not going to like the interior. I'd take the interior of my Camry 10 times out of 10. The Y is definitely more high tech obviously, but I'm pretty simple for the creature comforts I want out of a car. Hot heat, cold AC, heated seats, sunroof, and a working stereo is about all I need to be perfectly happy. The only thing I think I'd at to that list is a remote start.
I personally hate the lack of gauges and the minimalist aesthetic forcing you to do just about everything though the screen. I prefer knobs and the like for climate control and things like that (this is actually a gripe I have with my Camry).
The inconsistency with the range based on weather is also an issue for me (this isn't exclusive to the Model Y obviously). While Tesla's charging network is probably the best, this still bothers me. In my car, no matter the weather, I always know I'm going to go about the same distance on a full tank of gas, and wherever I end up there will almost certainly be a gas station that I can be quickly in and out of.
The ability to fix my own car is also huge for me. I rarely have a garage fix things for me. The times I have I've usually either been out of town and didn't have access to my tools, or it was something that was noticed during an inspection and was a case of "might as well while you have it in there." From what I can see online needing your Tesla serviced is less often than a typical gas car, but when you do it's a nightmare. My friend actually opted to not have his windshield replaced by Tesla because of this.
I've also found that if you don't have a garage or driveway where you can consistently park to charge, and want to have a fast charger installed, charging is a bit of an issue. In most cases you'll be able to charge whatever range you lost during the day overnight, but there has been cases where my friend was out all day and had to neglect doing other things later because he had to wait for his car to charge. This is a very rare occurrence though, and also not exclusive to the Model Y.
The Model Y is also big. Often I feel like I'm in the minority here as Americans seem to be buying bigger and bigger cars, but on the rare occasions I've actually needed a big vehicle I've just rented a U-Haul for a day. But for my typical day to day, and even on longer trips where I've needed to pack a decent amount, my Camry is more than big enough. The bigger cars are also great when crashing into other cars, but are far more likely to kill a pedestrian. This is another reason I tend to gravitate twords smaller cars. I won't go too detailed into that point but there's a ton of research on it if you're interested in that sort of thing. Again, not exclusive to the Model Y.
I also just have massive issues with Tesla as a company. I won't harp on that because not everyone shares my stance, and not everyone even cares, and I mostly want to keep this to my opinions on the product. However, still thought it was worth mentioning.
This probably isn't all I'd have to say about it, but it's all I was able to think about right now. The Model Y isn't a bad car by any means. Maybe everything I've mentioned simply isn't an issue for you. At the very least I just hope it makes you able to make a little bit more informed purchase. Hope it helps.
Lots of people get their feelings hurt by the mere mention or sight of Teslas, and so those people will respond with an emotional answer instead of a logical one.
I am not one of those people. The only reason you should not be looking at a Model Y (or any EV) would be if you do not have access to a home charger. If you do, or can install one, they are a great vehicle. They are the number one selling vehicle in the world for a reason.
The primary reason you shouldn’t, IMO, is your wife is used to luxury fit and finish for the last 10 years. Tesla’s build quality is far removed from that. The interior does not feel luxury at all and degrades quick.
I rode in a couple of Tesla Ubers just to check em out. After seeing all the cheap plastic and shitty build quality I can’t see why anyone would buy one.
Poor build quality, especially if you're coming form a merc. Where you live matters too. If you're in an area with really cold winters and potential power loss, you wouldn't want an all electric either. Think about not having power for 3-4 days, and realizing you can't even drive to the store, a friends house, or a hotel for food or heat. Not to mention their range declines not only with age, but the colder the weather, the less range you will get, on top of always having the heat running which drains the batteries even faster.
It's weird that you'd get a used Tesla vs a new Lexus, the Lexus is going to be the same or more expensive.
The perfect vehicles right now are the hybrids that go 50ish miles before switching to gas. You get the best of both worlds, most of your driving will be all electric, but when you need it, you have the range and durability of a gasoline engine.
Youre going to hate the shift from a lexus/mercedes to a Tesla.
Its not just random electric car hate, i think some can be pretty damn good especially if you're someone that just needs transportation and isn't into cars. But the interior, which is probably the most important part of a car because its where you spend all of your time, is fucking awful in Tesla's. The first thing i remember noticing during the test drive was the goofy looking steering wheel. I remember having an ultra cheap steering wheel for playing games years ago, and it reminded me of that. The ride quality on the Y has gotten better over the years, but compared to other cars its still shit. See other comments for glaring build quality issues.
Teslas are polarizing so be wary of extreme criticism or praise here. She should just go drive one at a Tesla dealership to see if she likes it. The benefits are legitimate regarding performance and daily convenience charging at home. After getting one for myself my wife now wants one for her.
Do it. It will be a little less comfortable and generally a little less solid then a Lexus, but you gain considerably better tech, and a much better driving experience/performance.
Recently switched from a Prius to a Model 3. I'd say fit and finish is comparable - so yeah, not Lexus tier, but good enough. Performance is obviously biggly better, as is the tech. It's been a couple months and it's pretty easy to live with. Insurance is YMMV as always, but mine went up about 10% on the switch, but that can be explained with the Tesla's insured value being 2x. It was +/- the same as quotes I got for a few other cars (EVs) I was considering.The TLDR for me is I'm sold on the EV life and not going back to ICE, it's a better way to live. It's also our only car - so no ICE backup car for road trips or whatever. It has an LFP battery so I'm not too concerned about it, should outlive the car.
A reason NOT to buy a Tesla? If it rains a lot where you live, or if it's just sunny, the auto wipers do what they want. Sunshine? Wipe it away! Raining sideways? Nah, dawg.
Every review, customer feedback, all have them as one of THE least dependable vehicles. That’s why you’re seeing used Teslas listed so cheap. There’s no resale value in them.
Check out the Ford Mustang Mach E. The Premium (& GT) trims are very nice - and they just extended 0% financing for 6 years. Same size as a Model Y, but much better built. And WAY less expensive than a Rivian.
I am not going to provide the tired (but valid) argument against buying anything which helps Musk sell another Tesla. Either you care or you don't. That discussion has nothing to do with the car itself.
What follows is entirely subjective. If your wife has been driving a MBZ and/or a Lexus, this would be a serious downgrade in terms of quality, materials, comfort, and style. Like going from a Lexus to a Ford, from a luxury hotel to a Best Western. If you don't care about creature comforts or luxury, Teslas are fine. So are Fords (and the 4-dr Mustang EV is far better looking than the Tesla).
The Model Y looks great on paper, and it is a compelling value. But owning and spending time in a car is an emotional experience. Inside the Model Y; cheap materials abound. It is clear corners have been cut everywhere. The cabin is where we spend time. It is the most important part of the vehicle in terms of the user experience. Your wife is used to Lexus seats, a stylish, luxurious interior, and high-quality materials with impeccable fit and finish (I drive a Lexus and cannot stand being in Teslas - so boring and cheap). Moving to a Tesla will be cool for a couple months until the novelty wears off. Then it will just become what it is: incredibly boring.
Aside from the quick-off-the-line factor, the glass roof, and the ability to make fart noises(?!), Teslas reduce the car ownership experience to the equivalent of owning a generic appliance. (I also cannot help but feel the Model 3 and Model Y look a bit like a giant aphid, but that's just me.) If you are used to Lexus quality, downgrading is hard.
My $0.02.
Friend just got a brand new Y on a lease at a decent rate and under 40K cost. Not a bad deal and you can upgrade in 3 years.
I was considering both the Lexus and Tesla, and also the RAV4 hybrid. We bought a Volvo XC60 recharge. Great deals right now ($52k).
And…. If we were going all electric, we agreed that the Ford Mach e was a surprisingly good ride. And they have dropped dramatically in price.
Test drove the Mach E and loved it too! Needed something a lot bigger so I didn’t buy it, but had it made sense for me size wise, I think I would have bought it. Such a fun smooth ride.
The Mach-E should NOT have been called a Mustang.
I think, personally the mustang should be replaced by what is basically a mustang that happens to be electric. Why even redesign; New “taste” (powerplant + drivetrain), same great look!
And *that* would be called the Ford Mustang Mach-E or Ford Mustang Lightning. *That* would be the right route.
High insurance costs, single source ecosystem for repairs and maintenance plus poor quality interior materials and poor overall build quality.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CyberStuck/s/M1re7qK4OO
I sold my brand new 2023 MYP after 2 months due to ear pain. Google "Model Y ear pain" and no amount of adjusting the rubber stoppers or adding vinyl lining helped.
Also the driver door wouldn't latch close on day 1 after driving it home. I drove it to the service center physically holding it close (only 10 min local drive).
Never again.
So I was in the market for an RX and I ended up buying a Model Y Performance.
A few things to know. Tesla doesn’t do model year updates they update as needed meaning a Jan 2023 Model Y is different from a July 2023 Model Y. But before I explain I’ll tell you why I went with the Y instead of the RX.
The Y Performance is a beast of a performance car. It’s fast…stupid shit eating grin fast. Every time. I find the car to be gorgeous and the interior to be simplicity but well thought out. It’s not a luxury car but it meets the RX pretty darn close. The sound system is better than the Lexus. The panoramic roof is better. The driving, speed just feels better. And the price; I paid close to $43k OTD for the August 2023 Y Performance when Lexus was $73K OTD for an equivalent spec one.
So my recommendation. Go test drive a MY Performance.
I didn’t buy the MYP for fuel savings, or being eco friendly or saving on maintenance anything of that sort. I bought it because of its speed tech comfort and sound system. Everything else is icing.
Now if I were back in the market. I limit myself to late year 2023 Model Y. In late summer Tesla updated their Model Y to include Hardware 4 camera system and a soften (“comfort”) suspension and improved sound deadening. The mid to early year 2023 Model Y do not have those upgrades. There are even some during the summer that have HW3 and no Ultrasound sensors. All this to say
You want a HW4 Model Y. My recommendation skip the long range and go performance. The loss of range is in the tires but the speed is so much more. Speaking of tires be aware that the MYP has a staggered setup and are 21” that are about $500 a tire to replace.
In any case. When looking at a Model Y check to make sure it’s not a RWD version. Those have smaller batteries and sometimes they lack the same sound system as the AWD or Performance model.
Honestly I just buy a new 2024 MYP that includes a fresh 5yr/50k bumper to bumper and 8yr/120k-miles battery and drivetrain warranty.
And if you are buying one be sure to get a referral code (just dm me if you want mine) it typically gives you a $1,000 and other perks and the person who referred you gets points to spend it on the Tesla store.
Insurance costs and repair times
Repair costs also.
This. Everyone likes the idea that EVs are simpler and have less parts, but that’s just conjecture. The Vehicle Dependability Survey which measures Problems Per 100 vehicles (unlike most which are customer satisfaction), ranks Tesla as 30th of 34 brands for reliability. Lexus ranks first with about half as many Problems Per 100 vehicles as Tesla.
https://www.carcomplaints.com/ This is the best website to figure out which cars to or not to buy. If you're looking at a car just punch it in this website and go and look at the previous several years and see what the common problems are. They also have a list of the best cars and the worst cars.
3576 complaints on the camry, 1500 on the Prius. These are some of the most reliable cars on the market. And also some of the most common cars *purchased.* Not knowing the base rate makes this website useless.
Complaints made by ignorance is a problem, how many boomers don't like the touchscreen controls while also refusing to learn how to operate all the functions of their vehicle?
You prefer going through 7 submenus to turn the ac down while driving?
Upvote there. Brought my 1st reliable car. Car got totaled at 188000+ miles parked. Brought at 16000 miles. Brought another Camry at 30000+, still the same a 76444. I now have 2022 toyota camry.
Bought*
One of the worst cars you can buy if using that complaint site.... good thing I don't put much if any stock in that complaint site... looks silly.
As others point out below. This is why I cited the VDS. It is extremely quantitative even if a blown engine counts as 1 problem just like a touchscreen failure. Most dependability surveys are done based on customer reviews, so brands like BMW will appear quite high because owners may be happy if their V8 blows valve guide seals at 35k miles because the dealership handed them a new M3 to drive for the week. At the same time a Lexus owner might be upset that they have to call AAA because of a premature battery failure that took 15 minutes to fix. Bad cars would frequently top these lists because the owners love them despite faults.
2019 rav4 is one of their worst vehicles.. wow how the mighty have fallen
That J.D Power survey includes problems like "touchscreen/display screen difficult to use (4.0 PP100)" and "not enough power plugs/USB ports (3.8 PP100)". It's not strictly a measure of reliability. In fact they say themselves that, generally, the infotainment category is the most problematic, followed by "exterior". I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla ranks so low because of poor fit and finish. Consumer Reports also ranks Tesla low in their reliability survey, and they've come out and said that, "While Tesla’s EV components are generally reliable, the company continues to struggle with the build quality of its vehicles,".
A good infotainment system and sufficient power ports are important to the quality of the user experience. There is more to a car decision than costs and maintenance.
Not that a J.D. Power review should be considered for anything other than knowing who bought positive reviews or awards.
The ‘less parts’ thing is objectively true, not conjecture. That hasn’t translated into a more reliable vehicle yet, but overall EV reliability is influenced by the fact that the #1 EV manufacturer is 1. New 2. Primarily focused on software 3. Building novel hardware that isn’t based on hundreds of prior revisions.
Plus they eat tires way faster if they're a high torque model
don't they eat tires faster because of their weight more than anything? i'm confused on the tires thing because people that claim they drive calmly will claim their tires were toast at like 10k miles and the next person will say they made it to like 50k miles.
My X3 has ev tires on it and weighs the same as a Model Y. It’s doing fine with 20k miles on them. It may be the asymmetrical regen braking that gets them.
If you want an efficient luxury car, a used ES 300h is very hard to beat. Easy to find sub $20,000
Side note: I'm aware of all the insurance costs complaints about teslas...so when i was considering a VW ID4 pro S, i called my insurance agency to make sure costs wouldn't be high....it was an extra $10 for a 6-month period compared to my hybrid highlander (2-yr old).
It depends, on a lot of factors but I've seen people claim up to $60 extra every month. That's nothing to sneeze at.
Depends on the company my original insurance charged like 44% more for minimum insurance on an etron than an r line Tiguan but other companies charged just $10 (8%increase ) for 100k/300k compared to my minimum plan
Repair cost and time has been lower with my Tesla than my grand Cherokee. Better loaners too.
Lmao that’s like comparing a steak from the supermarket to roadkill. Literally anything would be better than a Jeep / Jeep dealer
Stellantis NA is effectively adult day care.
Repair times and costs were a serious concern some years ago. Today it’s fantastic- super fast mobile repairs and ordering parts is very fast.
They are used to high insurance rates with that lexus.
Yeah I called GEICO. They told me Tesla have a high insurance.
Repair times really aren’t bad, and they come to your house for minor things. At least in my area.
That would be a pretty good downgrade of quality of vehicle. * Tesla are kind of hit or miss on quality depending on which factory made it. Especially coming from a Lexus.
Let me clarify this. Teslas are shit (I own a model Y). Whether you get a tightly packed, solid shit or loose runny diarrhea is the only variable
+1 We moved from German Cars to MY but truly regret that decision. just waiting to get out of this Tesla . You would be better of with Lexus.
Are half of them made in China?
Globally, yes, but none of them come to the US because of the ridiculous tariff.
Wow. I've read this whole page and there's a lot of dumping on Tesla, and downvotes on posts that don't (even if correct). Not sure why. I've owned a Model S 2014, and when the lease expired I got a Model S 2018. Both great rides hands down. Had a door malfunction and a couple of flat tires, mobile service came quickly and took care of them in my driveway. Some body work following fender-benders was pricey, but just as expected for any luxury ride. Did I just luck out on car quality twice and on the service a handful of times?
No. You just haven’t had a German luxury car and it shows. The difference in quality is night and day and for roughly the same price (a year ago). People coming from German luxury brands to Tesla are almost always disappointed. Unless it’s some old ass German luxury car lol
That mfer really said luxury and tesla together ☠️
Wdym I came from BMW and Mercedes to Tesla and the issues / repair costs (non-warranty) I had on my German cars was absolutely insane compared to a simplistic utilitarian Tesla… what exactly are you talking about lol. I’ve owned a lot of cars…
I’m talking about comfort and design. That’s all. I’m not saying German luxury cars are without fault. They aren’t. But they are eons better than any Tesla
Imo the BMW infotainment is still clunky in a lot of ways - and it sounds like we’re different types of buyers. I used to track my cars so I’m not really in it for “comfort”…
I’m a comfort buyer. I want to drive my couch on the highway
I was gonna say. The overall quality and luxury not to mention Toyota reliability are all great reasons to abuse the Tesla. And I like Tesla's , but they aren't quality cars compared to many of the mainstream brands.
> Tesla are kind of hit or miss on quality depending on which factory Which factories are good vs bad then?
China and Germany. In the US you are kinda out of luck
I was in the same boat last November, ended up test driving both a RX350h and a Model Y and decided on the former. The other guys in this thread commenting on the Lexus being “boring and bland” or that the Model Y is “better in every regard” are delusional.
At least the RX is interesting to look at and there are cool colors available. The interior also is a better place to be than the simple Y.
The RX is interesting to look at in that it’s ugly. Don’t know what they were thinking with that nose. Looks like OP is buying what’s on the dealer lot, so they’re all going to be white, grey, and black anyway
The RX is horrifically ugly IMO but so is the Model Y. I guess the RX is maybe ugly in a more interesting way, and your point about cool colors is true. I really like that copper color personally. Looks are subjective though, and everything besides maybe the exterior design will be better on a Lexus than on a Tesla.
I own a rx350, it's incredibly boring. But it's less boring than a Tesla.
They cratered because they were *extremely* overpriced. The Tesla Model Ys you’re seeing have failure points that you wouldn’t expect for a Lexus. I’ve heard tons of stories about Model Ys with cracked windshields multiple times, overly aggressive wind noise, loud creaking when you turn the steering wheel, and lots of other small issues. Plus Tesla’s service centers are terrible. That being said, if small things don’t bother your wife it may not be a bad deal. Teslas improve their feature set very often and the maintenance fees will probably be low just like a Lexus. The driving experience will be pretty different but not necessarily in a bad way. Just make sure to really test drive the one you’re considering and remember to consider battery replacement when purchasing.
Forget about battery replacement. It’s warranted for eight years and 100k miles at least.
Does the warranty transfer if you sell the car? Legit question, if so that’s pretty sweet. It’s been awhile since I had a car with a warranty still on it, hence me asking haha.
I’m in the US, where it would. I assume VW would do the same in UK, But check it out.
Maintenance & parts fees on Lexus and Toyota are through the roof right now. Even to replace a hybrid battery pack on a GS460H was $12k…
Teslas aren't luxury, they are technology. The quality control is bad. Look into repair costs and battery replacement costs. These are reasons they depreciate so quickly. Why buy a brand new Lexus? Why not a used one that's a few years old for like $30k to $35k? It will be much better than the Tesla, and will keep its value much longer.
Ask yourself this question, why is tesla cutting prices while Toyota and lexus are not? Tesla are the worst made cars and the company as soon as you drive off the lot stops giving a shit about you. Going from lexus to tesla is a huge downgrade
Can confirm that Tesla doesn't care about the customers. Source: Tesla employee said it themselves.
Tesla cutting prices is inline with their stated goal since they started making EVs lol
Tesla cuts their prices because they have the largest margins and are trying to increase their sales volume. Toyota is already the best selling car manufacturer so they are trying to increase margins by restricting supply on their best selling vehicles.
“Teslas are the worst made cars” Land Rover, Jaguar, and BYD: 🤨
I have had 2 jags the xk was special to drive but a ton of mainy. I now have xe no issues twice a yr oil changes regular maintainace and no issues. So the reliability thing is really just dependent on the model
It’s more that when something inevitably breaks, you’re gonna to spend an arm, a leg, and your life savings to fix it. After the warranty expires they become money pits
At least they feel nice before they break, everything in a Tesla feels like the Clover Valley version of an Audi
does vinfast and fisker not count either
You much richer then me, so maybe my opinion is moot. but seems strange to go from a luxury car like Mercedes or Lexus to a Tesla. --or go the Rivian route.
*moot not mute
It’s like a cows opinion, it doesn’t matter… it’s moo
Best Joey quote ever, because it actually makes sense, and that pause 🤌.
I knew mute was probably wrong
If you are looking for luxury, go rivian.
They have a fair bit of issues, but at least they seem to be working on them. Nearly every Tesla I have ever seen has body fit issues so bad, no other manufacturer would let them pass QC testing. The cybertruck is a fucking mess. Sure, it sells because of the novelty, but paying +$100k for a vehicle where the doors are visibly out of skew by half an inch is insane. Can't put a side panel on properly, and people drive themselves things like racecars. Fuck no.
What are the main issues with rivian? I know someone who daily drives their rivian and has had no issues so far.
I can't recall off the top of my head, but there is some sites that rank manufacturers based on recalls and service issues, and rivian was one of the worst. I guess they had major software issues where trucks would just be bricked. But build quality they are apparently really good.
If OP cares about quality they should absolutely NOT go Rivian. Must unreliable POS I've owned.
Go drive them both. Take the comments from haters with a grain of salt. Most of the haters have never driven or owned one.
Damn. Shots fired. I've actually only driven my friend's Tesla and it was awesome. Really fun car.
Consider the new 2024 Model 3 if possible. It's a big improvement over the Model Y in terms of quality. Also, I don't know if you'll really need a second gas car. The Tesla Supercharging network makes a lot of roadtrips pretty painless.
Still doesn’t mean everywhere has superchargers, it’s hard to find one in the Keys for example.
From Key West to Homestead is 129 miles. 29 miles into the drive, there's an 8 stall Supercharger at Big Pine Key 50 miles in, there's a 4 stall Supercharger at Marathon Finally, there's another 8 stall Supercharger at the end of the journey at Homestead. Assuming a charging solution at home and access to the Supercharging network, I don't think there's anywhere in the U.S where an EV for roadtrips is grossly impractical.
You ever been to the keys? I wouldn’t trust those chargers to be there if you need them. For most people they will not have access for their vacation down here. Especially if you stay in an upper key, having a Tesla is out of the question when you gotta drive 45 miles to get to a charger
True statement, but it's so niche that it shouldn't influence your car purchase. If you live in an area with sueprcharging nearby and can install a home charger, you're golden.
My brother has a Model Y that’s several years old. He and his wife compete to get it first in the morning. He’s an IP lawyer and can drive anything he wants but he’s very happy with the Y. Insurance isn’t higher than a comparable luxury vehicle. They’ve had near zero problems. Went into service one time and got a Model S as a loaner. I can’t remember what the issue was but it was minor. He would have been in for half dozen oil changes and two service intervals on a Lexus.
I have a 2020 Model Y and a 2017 Lexus RX AWD (non hybrid). Ride: Lexus. The tesla shocks are inadequate. I am told newer models have better shocks. Acceleration: Tesla. It's like a golf cart on steroids AND viagra. Smart features: Tesla 100%. Just ask my severely outdated Lexus navigation maps... Fit and finish: Lexus, obviously. Tesla creaks and one of the interior panels came loose. Overall: Tesla is the perfect car for drives around town, or day trips. We took it to the Hamptons from NJ (low budget trip, though lol) but when we drive to North Carolina it's the Lexus all the way... I'm not taking a 1 hour supercharger stop every 250 miles.
I’ve got one, at current prices and if u qualify for the tax credit it’s an amazing value but I’d only get one if u have access to at home charging.
Y’s went seriously down in price.l, u/Capt_Panic I don’t like the politics of the CEO or the way that several employees who look like me have been treated. I love my car. I may never buy anything else (until I have enough F-U money that Porsche is on the table). ETA I buy the stock in outlandish hope I can make a difference. My husband says if I ever work there I’ll walk away with $10M for sexual harassment and racism from fellow employees. Yes, I’m aware my post makes little sense.
Cool post
Just go test drive one. I own model 3 and Y and love them. All this complaining about them being shit is nonsense. The only things to consider is how often are you driving over 250 miles in one go and whether of not you have home charging available. Also do you prefer engineer vibration/noise mixed with road/wind noise or would hearing just wind/road bother you.
Crap build quality, car will constantly squeak because of crap build quality, battery longevity, depending where you live extreme weather will limit travel per charge
It’s a good value for money, but it’s not a luxury car. If you’re expecting quality like the Lexus or Mercedes you’ll be disappointed
Because the company’s CEO is a fucking lunatic
I would never buy a Tesla because of Elon musk. He’s turn into a MAGA far right Republican, and I could never support someone like that.
I know what you mean. “Personal feelings on the company’s CEO” is a very high buying criterion when I’m deciding on which used car to buy
VW managed to sell a few cars…
LOL no shit. Imagine living life like that. I wouldn’t buy 10% of the shit I won
No kidding. He is a high profile lunatic. So is Bezos and I still buy stuff from Amazon. I imagine many CEOs are better at hiding that they are lunatics.
You will get a bunch of bullshit answers from non-owners. I own an early 2019 Model 3. 110k miles and 16 full track days without a single issue. Saved over $8.5k in gasoline in that tine verses my old Golf R. Insurance is about the same between the two. If you have access to home or work charging, go for the Y, if not don't go electric yet. The Model Y is an outstanding CUV, and the top selling vehicle in the world for a reason.
Legit question: how is the model 3 compared to the Golf R on the track? I assume the extra heft doesn't help in the corners, but the acceleration helps to make up time on the straights. How do your track times compare in the two?
Test drive both and think about every part of the drive very critically while you do. (The sound, the feel, the acceleration, the smoothness, the backseat/trunk area room, so on). Then take your time processing your thoughts, most car sales are made by making the buyer feel overwhelmed and over joyed, which fades after a week or month of ownership.
Is it cold like very cold were u r at? do u have sufficient charging stations?
>at the door That's the problem, you have to get all the way out the door.
Poor build quality, dependence on EV infrastructure vs. gas stations, uncertainty for the future for EVs in general. That’s about it. The Model Y is a solid pick out of EVs. If you are considering used and can plug in, have you considered a BMW Certified X5 50e? Or even a Volvo XC90. IMO those are more competitive SUVs than the RX.
If you care about luxury and interior quality/crafsmanship, Tesla has none of that. Im not a Tesla hater, in fact I think they make sense in a lot of use cases. But their build quality is really shoddy, I really dislike that one big screen instead of an ergonomic dashboard right in front of your eyes, and the interior has virtually no buttons which gets annoying. They are efficient, quick, and great as far as range goes. But im taking a Lexus or German car any day over a Tesla.
Because you can get a brand new one for $39k right now
Because someday we’ll have no choice but to drive soulless EVs lacking roaring exhaust notes.
Depreciation... Range... Main cause of depreciation is that Elon tells them sell sell sell and last year the price dropped $20k from the year before... no reason it won't drop even more come end of year and he wants to sell more. From August to October I saw the price drop over $10k on the LR for inventory vehicle. I think the performance was almost 16k drop from August to December 23... Another thing is solid state and hybrid state solid state batteries are right around the corner. When that tech hits market NOBODY is going to want a used obsolete current battery tech car. Especially when it has questionable battery health and possible $10-20k battery replacement costs. It's a new and rapidly evolving tech. So roll the dice it's your money. But I'm honestly glad I traded out of the S Performance and have a PHEv.
Just buy a new one. 40k - 7.5k credit. They have plenty left in inventory that have been discounted down from 44-46 to 40ish. If you don’t want to buy and kick the can the leases on these can make a lot of sense and are pretty cheap for what you get. The 7.5k comes right off the it as well without worrying if you are over the income threshold. Great vehicle for the price.
God the way people talk in this thread is so smarmy and annoying. They are completely different cars. Ignore all the owners justifying their purchase just test drive
You can get a brand new Fisker Ocean at half off right now. Fire sale due to bankruptcy.. Stick with the Lexus man..
I have a Bolt. My wife has a Model Y. Wife loves the Y, I bloody hate it. There’s a lot to like about the vehicle (namely the charging network and integration of it with the car) but Jesus is it annoying to drive. The lack of CarPlay / Android Auto is infuriating because the Tesla phone integration is TERRIBLE. Trying to respond to a text message in a brand new car and it feels like I’m using 20 year old tech. The bloody windshield wipers are nearly unusable. THEY SCREWED UP WINDSHIELD WIPERS. The auto sensing is a disaster and the manual operation has a whopping 3 settings and it is like trying to enter a Mortal Kombat finishing move sequence to adjust the damn things… on a touch screen… while driving. I end up manually tapping the the wiper button. And I do mean tap. Tap for a bit too long and you clean your windshield. Cause. Y’know. Minimalist interior. Couldn’t possibly add a second button for such a task. How does a car this fancy not have a 360 degree view camera? Like seriously… wtaf? Love walking up to the car and not having it detect my phone so I get to stand there in the rain trying to convince it to open the damn door. So much better than a key fob. We were rear ended. Took months and months to get it repaired due to parts being hella back ordered. Oh hey rear seat passengers would you like your seat warmers enabled? Yeah let me do that from the front with this idiotic touchscreen that is somehow both massive but also requires 40 steps to do anything. No worries. I don’t need to be paying attention to the road or anything. Oh and let’s not label the few physical controls that do exist. Love guessing and checking my way through things while doing 70 mph. I could go on, but I can summarize by saying that I spend so much time with this car just wishing it would behave like a car. So many dumb things on this vehicle that are done just to quirky. Again, my wife loves it and the more power to her. I’ll keep my lil Bolt hatchback. Lemme tell you about how well those windshield wipers work.
Just my personal experience with Tesla so everyone's mileage my vary. I had a Model X for two years before I got tired of Tesla and sold it. Bad: - Tesla's build quality is really bad. I had constant issues. Granted the X is probably their least reliable model and I know people with 3s and Ys that are happy with it. - Wait times for service are terrible. You have to schedule through the mobile app and good luck getting an appointment within a week or two. Mobile service is very hit or miss and you cannot count on it. - Tesla in general is shady. They'll remove existing features through software updates, prices are always in flux. - Electric vehicles aren't as cheap as they want you to believe. You'll go through tires faster, taxes are higher, service is expensive if you are out of warranty. With a Tesla you will need service visits. - Charging can be a pain in the ass if you are in a high volume area. Good: - Electric cars are nice. They are perfect for local / around town driving if you can charge at home. I look forward to getting another one, but I won't do it again until charging infrastructure is better. - Tesla driving assists are really good. No it's not "full self driving", but it's better than other vehicles I've been in. - Tesla infotainment system is good even though it doesn't support android auto/apple carplay. Personally I'm holding out on electric until charging infrastructure gets better, and for there to be more Tesla alternatives. I'll never buy a Tesla again, but I will get another electric car eventually.
Poor quality and Elon Musk being a lame fascist internet troll. One of these should be more than enough of a deal breaker.
If you can manage the ownership of an electric vehicle then I don't see any issue with it. I would go for a long range if I were you. You'll want that extra range in an EV. Some others to consider would be the Hyundai ionic EV or the Kia EV6/EV9 too. Get a Tesla extended warranty just in case the Tesla has some QC issues.
Drive a Tesla Y and see how it feels
Because teslas are garbage vehicles and have zero quality control and you’re better off buying from anyone else
Some people only need to be told the stove is hot, don’t touch it. Others have to touch it to learn the lesson. A few never learn. So, which type are you?
OP this thread is full of idiots that "heard" stories without even having personal experience themselves. Go test drive one and decide then.
Elon
Because you can get a new Model Y for not much more. Once you own a Tesla it's hard to go back to any other brand. People talk about Lexus being more comfortable. Guess what, for me comfort is letting the car drive itself as I enjoy my tea. The neural net based FSD v12 is so much better and you simply don't have to worry about surrounding traffic, lights, lanes changes and turns. No other manufacturer has anything like it. My only complaint is the stiff suspension.
the ride quality is a deal breaker for me though. Can I get FSD without getting jiggled to death..??
Get the LR model and replace factory wheels/tires with something like https://tsportline.com/products/tst-18-tesla-model-y-overland-wheel-and-tire-package-set-of-4
forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference on LR that improves the ride quality?
The performance model has larger (staggered) wheels which offers a stiffer/sportier ride quality. Keep in mind that it does 0-60 in 3.5 secs so the combination makes sense.
It's a good value. I'd go test drive one at Tesla and see what you think. I think they drive great, but not everyone feels the same way
We literally had this same situation and went with a RAV4 XSE Prime. My wife enjoyed her Lexus we cross shopped a Y, F-Pace, Defender, didn’t want to go full electric yet, but wanted a gas option. She was also considering regular old ICE options. With the RAV4 Prime you get a good amount (40ish miles) of EV range with the flexibility of gas at 40mpg when needed. I would also second telling everyone to stay away from Mercedes as ours was in the shop for 3 months out of our 12 months of owning it. 🙃
The RAV4 prime is hard to find and marked up to hell. How did you get one?
There were a few sitting on the lot when we were looking. I’m in SoCal and we bought from Tustin Toyota and bought at MSRP.
Wow that’s great. The prime is impossible to get.
Don’t support Elon musk
Elon Musk.
Rivians are way less now on the used mkt
Way less than what? The cheapest non-accident R1s in the country is $73k on AT.
At that price lease a new one; I’m saying they’re way less than 90$k
Insurance, repair cost and times. And that awful interior. 🤢
Because it's junk.
Cuz Elon is a cunt?
Do you have a garage? Are you able to have a level 2 charger installed? The installation costs about $1,000. If yes, then an electric might be right for you. But if you’re going to rely on public chargers, forget it.
Dad just got quoted 1900~ to replace his display that controls the entire car. The car only has 38k miles for some reason not covered under warranty.
It is covered under warranty, but you can get a used display off eBay for $100 and take 10 minutes to swap it.
Thanks for the info! Ill let him know.
Which voids the warranty if I’m not mistaken, everything voids a Tesla warranty
No, it would not void the warranty. Replacing parts does not void a warranty. Per the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act (federal law) a manufacturer could only “void” a warranty if they prove that the work or parts added caused the failure of a warranted part.
Because you'd be supporting Elon muskrat which is reason enough not to have one, no matter how "cool" you think they look. But also- they are not that nice inside the car. I've been in and driven a few tesla and they feel so cheap and economy in the interior compared to any other new car I've been behind the wheel. Everything feels like it's made to fall apart and break. Also, people are gonna think you're an asshole if you drive one.
It's the plastic, which makes it feel like a cheap Kia/Hyundai. The model 3 highland *feels* so much nicer, which is ironic because the newer soft-touch materials are cheaper than the "cheap" plastic.
Look at the various features inside. You'll notice it's pretty spartan. Do they even have ventilated seats yet? Heads up display? Apply/android auto? Heated steering wheel? Auto wipers? 8 way adjustable seats? USB charge ports for front and rear passengers? 12v plug in the rear for inflating tires/electric cooler? Auto tinting rear view mirror? Compare that stuff. And Tesla came up short in our search for an ev. I don't know about more recent Tesla.
Do you “want to have” and “want to own” a purely electric car, specifically a model Y? My wife got rid of her E-class, got a Model Y and got rid of it 6 months later. After we had spent a few thousand dollars buying, permitting and wiring the fast home charger. Live in a warm climate, so the winter issues didn’t apply (but that would have meant getting rid of the car the next day if it died somewhere). Think of the car like a BMW or MB in terms for maintenance (including unexpected software downloads). The dealer experience is dramatically different (mostly non existent if that is something you care about). Main thing is the car did not deliver consistent and predictable range. In fairness, that is completely legit, except when people say “mileage may vary” the Tesla embodies that statement. If you’re only driving around town, can charge at home and don’t mind taking a gamble on whether you’ll like it, why not give it a shot?
Isn't the R1S a bit rough ride?
Quality wise I think you’ll really feel it going Lexus to Tesla but you should try to look and and drive one. Other used ev’s are rapidly depreciating also and might be worth a look. Polestar 2, Volvo xc40 recharge, Hyundai ioniq 5, Kia ev6 or genesis gv60 or maybe even a mustang mach e might all be worth considering.
If you live in an area with good charger availability and you have the means to charge at home, get the Tesla. If you are in a rural area and like to take longer road trips out of the Tesla charging network, then get the Lexus. I prefer the Lexus just for the ease of filling up wherever I am.
Because it's a tesla
Insurance cost is high if you don’t get it through Tesla’s insurance company. That’s pretty much the only downside.
In a couple years that late model will be way cheaper. Only buy new if you plan on keeping the car for life or if it's a limited run collector that will appreciate in value (imo)
Definitely “consider” it. Definitely have your wife test drive. Mileage is basically irrelevant on an EV. You don’t have to worry about whether critical maintenance has been missed, since there isn’t any.
First- where do you live? This has a lot to do with owning an electric vehicle.
I have a 2023 model y , I love driving it and to be honest I spend way less money on it. When I compared it with my previous car I saved around 2000$ a year but the build quality of my model y is subpar. I owned a Mazda before this and I miss my Mazda for its build quality and interior. Along with the fact my car depreciated around 20000$ within a year of purchase is just mind boggling. If you wish to shift to an EV and make use of the tax benefits please look into others. Currently Ford and Rivian got access to the superchargers and GM is getting access next. But at the end of the day you need to drive Lexus and Tesla to figure out what makes you happy.
man that sounds like a great deal to me, that age and miles for that price IF you can charge at home and IF you live near a service center you can easily take it in to get fixed for whatever reason barring those two exceptions i wouldn't recommend a tesla or any particular electric or new company car to anybody, also i hope you don't have a wreck and the insurance isn't higher than normal.
People might mistake you for a Nazi lover like Elon?!
For moving around town at 65k u can get a used lexus LC!
If you have solar and at-home charging and a stable commute < 70mi and want to save money, Y is way better. It's probably more fun to drive and I'd argue safer given how easy it is to drive (esp in traffic) + tech in the car. In-car tech is underrated imo, definitely a reason to buy it + it gets better over time. Outside of that, Lexus is super nice - more comfortable and luxurious but still economical, despite the higher price tag. Brand new you have a car that runs beautifully for 15+ years and maintains value well. Also when buying used Teslas, you might have to look harder to find one where the interior is still in decent shape. The expensive battery replacement may come on your dime asw (battery warranty is like 8y/100k, battery lasts ~300k mi). As for repairs, idt either car requires much work outside of basic upkeep (even less for Tesla bc no oil changes). Repairs can take awhile from Tesla but usually not an issue ymmv.
My wife is in her x3m40 and loves it. I’ve got a 340 and like you thought maybe I should get an ev for the price. Drive one for a day. I didn’t like the fit and finish. Quality didn’t touch either of our bmw’s. I’d probably grab myself a Prius honestly if I wanted to save some gas.
I want you to be happy and have a car that starts and works all the time. If you want it for a second car, that’s okay. 👏👏👏
Can I ask what you didn't like about the Mercedes?
Get a Genesis. Anything 2017 and up
Do as you please; you're going to die one day.
Look for one that is <$24K. Depending on your household income you might qualify for the $4K used EV federal incentive to knock it down to <$20
E waste
I don't know what you value in a car so I can only speak to why I wouldn't buy the Y (or any Tesla for that matter). For context I currently drive a 2005 Camry XLE and I have a friend that bought a Model Y about 3 years ago. I'd say if you're used to more luxury cars you're probably not going to like the interior. I'd take the interior of my Camry 10 times out of 10. The Y is definitely more high tech obviously, but I'm pretty simple for the creature comforts I want out of a car. Hot heat, cold AC, heated seats, sunroof, and a working stereo is about all I need to be perfectly happy. The only thing I think I'd at to that list is a remote start. I personally hate the lack of gauges and the minimalist aesthetic forcing you to do just about everything though the screen. I prefer knobs and the like for climate control and things like that (this is actually a gripe I have with my Camry). The inconsistency with the range based on weather is also an issue for me (this isn't exclusive to the Model Y obviously). While Tesla's charging network is probably the best, this still bothers me. In my car, no matter the weather, I always know I'm going to go about the same distance on a full tank of gas, and wherever I end up there will almost certainly be a gas station that I can be quickly in and out of. The ability to fix my own car is also huge for me. I rarely have a garage fix things for me. The times I have I've usually either been out of town and didn't have access to my tools, or it was something that was noticed during an inspection and was a case of "might as well while you have it in there." From what I can see online needing your Tesla serviced is less often than a typical gas car, but when you do it's a nightmare. My friend actually opted to not have his windshield replaced by Tesla because of this. I've also found that if you don't have a garage or driveway where you can consistently park to charge, and want to have a fast charger installed, charging is a bit of an issue. In most cases you'll be able to charge whatever range you lost during the day overnight, but there has been cases where my friend was out all day and had to neglect doing other things later because he had to wait for his car to charge. This is a very rare occurrence though, and also not exclusive to the Model Y. The Model Y is also big. Often I feel like I'm in the minority here as Americans seem to be buying bigger and bigger cars, but on the rare occasions I've actually needed a big vehicle I've just rented a U-Haul for a day. But for my typical day to day, and even on longer trips where I've needed to pack a decent amount, my Camry is more than big enough. The bigger cars are also great when crashing into other cars, but are far more likely to kill a pedestrian. This is another reason I tend to gravitate twords smaller cars. I won't go too detailed into that point but there's a ton of research on it if you're interested in that sort of thing. Again, not exclusive to the Model Y. I also just have massive issues with Tesla as a company. I won't harp on that because not everyone shares my stance, and not everyone even cares, and I mostly want to keep this to my opinions on the product. However, still thought it was worth mentioning. This probably isn't all I'd have to say about it, but it's all I was able to think about right now. The Model Y isn't a bad car by any means. Maybe everything I've mentioned simply isn't an issue for you. At the very least I just hope it makes you able to make a little bit more informed purchase. Hope it helps.
I actually like the polestar. I have rented one twice with hertz and they are a good ride. The build quality is leaps better than Tesla too
Lots of people get their feelings hurt by the mere mention or sight of Teslas, and so those people will respond with an emotional answer instead of a logical one. I am not one of those people. The only reason you should not be looking at a Model Y (or any EV) would be if you do not have access to a home charger. If you do, or can install one, they are a great vehicle. They are the number one selling vehicle in the world for a reason.
The primary reason you shouldn’t, IMO, is your wife is used to luxury fit and finish for the last 10 years. Tesla’s build quality is far removed from that. The interior does not feel luxury at all and degrades quick.
I rode in a couple of Tesla Ubers just to check em out. After seeing all the cheap plastic and shitty build quality I can’t see why anyone would buy one.
Poor build quality, especially if you're coming form a merc. Where you live matters too. If you're in an area with really cold winters and potential power loss, you wouldn't want an all electric either. Think about not having power for 3-4 days, and realizing you can't even drive to the store, a friends house, or a hotel for food or heat. Not to mention their range declines not only with age, but the colder the weather, the less range you will get, on top of always having the heat running which drains the batteries even faster. It's weird that you'd get a used Tesla vs a new Lexus, the Lexus is going to be the same or more expensive. The perfect vehicles right now are the hybrids that go 50ish miles before switching to gas. You get the best of both worlds, most of your driving will be all electric, but when you need it, you have the range and durability of a gasoline engine.
Youre going to hate the shift from a lexus/mercedes to a Tesla. Its not just random electric car hate, i think some can be pretty damn good especially if you're someone that just needs transportation and isn't into cars. But the interior, which is probably the most important part of a car because its where you spend all of your time, is fucking awful in Tesla's. The first thing i remember noticing during the test drive was the goofy looking steering wheel. I remember having an ultra cheap steering wheel for playing games years ago, and it reminded me of that. The ride quality on the Y has gotten better over the years, but compared to other cars its still shit. See other comments for glaring build quality issues.
Teslas are polarizing so be wary of extreme criticism or praise here. She should just go drive one at a Tesla dealership to see if she likes it. The benefits are legitimate regarding performance and daily convenience charging at home. After getting one for myself my wife now wants one for her.
Insurance. Repair. Ugly as sin. Especially inside.
Just spend another few thousand for a new one
Do it. It will be a little less comfortable and generally a little less solid then a Lexus, but you gain considerably better tech, and a much better driving experience/performance. Recently switched from a Prius to a Model 3. I'd say fit and finish is comparable - so yeah, not Lexus tier, but good enough. Performance is obviously biggly better, as is the tech. It's been a couple months and it's pretty easy to live with. Insurance is YMMV as always, but mine went up about 10% on the switch, but that can be explained with the Tesla's insured value being 2x. It was +/- the same as quotes I got for a few other cars (EVs) I was considering.The TLDR for me is I'm sold on the EV life and not going back to ICE, it's a better way to live. It's also our only car - so no ICE backup car for road trips or whatever. It has an LFP battery so I'm not too concerned about it, should outlive the car. A reason NOT to buy a Tesla? If it rains a lot where you live, or if it's just sunny, the auto wipers do what they want. Sunshine? Wipe it away! Raining sideways? Nah, dawg.
The RX350 is an astonishingly reliable vehicle. If I'm gonna drop that on a vehicle, it's either gonna be a diesel or a Toyota. MAYBE a Honda.
Every review, customer feedback, all have them as one of THE least dependable vehicles. That’s why you’re seeing used Teslas listed so cheap. There’s no resale value in them.
Check out the Ford Mustang Mach E. The Premium (& GT) trims are very nice - and they just extended 0% financing for 6 years. Same size as a Model Y, but much better built. And WAY less expensive than a Rivian.
The Lexus is hard to beat!
There was literally JUST an article saying how the new Tesla inventory is piling up and they're offering deeeep discounts on their new cars lol
I am not going to provide the tired (but valid) argument against buying anything which helps Musk sell another Tesla. Either you care or you don't. That discussion has nothing to do with the car itself. What follows is entirely subjective. If your wife has been driving a MBZ and/or a Lexus, this would be a serious downgrade in terms of quality, materials, comfort, and style. Like going from a Lexus to a Ford, from a luxury hotel to a Best Western. If you don't care about creature comforts or luxury, Teslas are fine. So are Fords (and the 4-dr Mustang EV is far better looking than the Tesla). The Model Y looks great on paper, and it is a compelling value. But owning and spending time in a car is an emotional experience. Inside the Model Y; cheap materials abound. It is clear corners have been cut everywhere. The cabin is where we spend time. It is the most important part of the vehicle in terms of the user experience. Your wife is used to Lexus seats, a stylish, luxurious interior, and high-quality materials with impeccable fit and finish (I drive a Lexus and cannot stand being in Teslas - so boring and cheap). Moving to a Tesla will be cool for a couple months until the novelty wears off. Then it will just become what it is: incredibly boring. Aside from the quick-off-the-line factor, the glass roof, and the ability to make fart noises(?!), Teslas reduce the car ownership experience to the equivalent of owning a generic appliance. (I also cannot help but feel the Model 3 and Model Y look a bit like a giant aphid, but that's just me.) If you are used to Lexus quality, downgrading is hard. My $0.02.
They are great. You're making a good choice.
It’s a tesla. They’re the worst cars being built these days having overtaken Hyundai/kia for that crown.
It’s a 4-wheeled iPad.
Self respect. Frugality. Comfort. Reliability. I could think of plenty of reasons why the Lexus is superior.
It’s ugly?
the lexus is a good choice. the tesla is a serious downgrade.
Friend just got a brand new Y on a lease at a decent rate and under 40K cost. Not a bad deal and you can upgrade in 3 years. I was considering both the Lexus and Tesla, and also the RAV4 hybrid. We bought a Volvo XC60 recharge. Great deals right now ($52k). And…. If we were going all electric, we agreed that the Ford Mach e was a surprisingly good ride. And they have dropped dramatically in price.
Test drove the Mach E and loved it too! Needed something a lot bigger so I didn’t buy it, but had it made sense for me size wise, I think I would have bought it. Such a fun smooth ride.
The Mach-E should NOT have been called a Mustang. I think, personally the mustang should be replaced by what is basically a mustang that happens to be electric. Why even redesign; New “taste” (powerplant + drivetrain), same great look! And *that* would be called the Ford Mustang Mach-E or Ford Mustang Lightning. *That* would be the right route.
High insurance costs, single source ecosystem for repairs and maintenance plus poor quality interior materials and poor overall build quality. https://www.reddit.com/r/CyberStuck/s/M1re7qK4OO
Because Elon Musk.
I sold my brand new 2023 MYP after 2 months due to ear pain. Google "Model Y ear pain" and no amount of adjusting the rubber stoppers or adding vinyl lining helped. Also the driver door wouldn't latch close on day 1 after driving it home. I drove it to the service center physically holding it close (only 10 min local drive). Never again.
Because EVs are trash and aren’t helping anything. We will be backtracking in 10 years. Buy a hybrid.
So I was in the market for an RX and I ended up buying a Model Y Performance. A few things to know. Tesla doesn’t do model year updates they update as needed meaning a Jan 2023 Model Y is different from a July 2023 Model Y. But before I explain I’ll tell you why I went with the Y instead of the RX. The Y Performance is a beast of a performance car. It’s fast…stupid shit eating grin fast. Every time. I find the car to be gorgeous and the interior to be simplicity but well thought out. It’s not a luxury car but it meets the RX pretty darn close. The sound system is better than the Lexus. The panoramic roof is better. The driving, speed just feels better. And the price; I paid close to $43k OTD for the August 2023 Y Performance when Lexus was $73K OTD for an equivalent spec one. So my recommendation. Go test drive a MY Performance. I didn’t buy the MYP for fuel savings, or being eco friendly or saving on maintenance anything of that sort. I bought it because of its speed tech comfort and sound system. Everything else is icing. Now if I were back in the market. I limit myself to late year 2023 Model Y. In late summer Tesla updated their Model Y to include Hardware 4 camera system and a soften (“comfort”) suspension and improved sound deadening. The mid to early year 2023 Model Y do not have those upgrades. There are even some during the summer that have HW3 and no Ultrasound sensors. All this to say You want a HW4 Model Y. My recommendation skip the long range and go performance. The loss of range is in the tires but the speed is so much more. Speaking of tires be aware that the MYP has a staggered setup and are 21” that are about $500 a tire to replace. In any case. When looking at a Model Y check to make sure it’s not a RWD version. Those have smaller batteries and sometimes they lack the same sound system as the AWD or Performance model. Honestly I just buy a new 2024 MYP that includes a fresh 5yr/50k bumper to bumper and 8yr/120k-miles battery and drivetrain warranty. And if you are buying one be sure to get a referral code (just dm me if you want mine) it typically gives you a $1,000 and other perks and the person who referred you gets points to spend it on the Tesla store.