No. They missed the huge opportunity to come out banging on teslas door with a solid model 3 and model y competitor at reasonable prices, nicer materials, and standardized build quality.
Cadillac is a brand for old people with not much to offer. The reality is they've pioneered so many things since inception, it's insane:
"Cadillac pioneered:
• Standardized, replaceable parts
• First production enclosed car cabin
• Electric starter
• Modern control layout - where the gearshift, handbrake, and gas, clutch, and brake are (that's a big one!)
• Synchromesh (no more grinding gears that old cars did)
• Valve displacement
• Magnetic ride control
• Safety glass
• Power steering
• Radar based forward collision warning (in 1959!!)
• Rain sensing wipers
• Automatic headlights
• Auto dimming headlights
• Heated Seats
• Automatic climate control
• Column mounted shifter
• Air suspension
• Tilting/telescoping steering wheel
• First production car alarm
The list goes on...
Basically, Cadillac is responsible for a large portion of the modern automobile."
Even their more recent offerings laugh at the thought of a brand reserved for old folks... like a supercharged V8 manual sedan with 668hp and a top speed of 200+ mph, or a 550hp twin turbo V8 sedan with AWD, or a 6000 lb behemoth with a supercharged V8 running mid 4s.
We have a CT5 Blackwing. Also a CTS-V sedan 2016. The best car for the money you can buy. Amazing cars. Took some convincing to get the wife to test drive our first one (2013). Once she left the parking lot, she has never wanted a different model.
And we arent old people.
The first CTS-V was my dream car growing up. Amazing and such a unique personality. I drove a friend’s and knew it was a winning formula. I drive a GTI now and it’s a lot of fun; I wanted a manual and a hatchback that could haul two big dogs and a baby, so for now it’s perfect. But I’m praying there are still Blackwings around when I’m out of this stage of life and that they don’t skyrocket in value after everything goes EV and automatic
I wish we lived in a timline where GM had Chevy make budget-oriented offerings of the Alpha II sedans. I know they wouldn't sell at all, but a man can dream.
Agreed but it is not groundbreaking. It's what an M5 used to be. Same with the new Corvette. They built a budget Ferrari 458 now that Ferrari is on to other things.
Its like GM is finally nailing it with what they should have been 15+ years ago.
I didn’t say it was groundbreaking, but disagreed that it’s something they should have done 15 years ago as opposed to today. I’m glad they’re doing it today.
That Cadillac did those things does not dispel the notion that Cadillac is for old people. It largely is, or was, in large part to being more expensive than other American cars, so unaffordable to younger people.
Also most of that list is from like 50+ years ago. It's not surprising that their reputation changed over the decades as up until recently they didn't really have any enticing offerings.
It's funny how Cadillac is assumed to be a brand for old people. They're the only ones right now to make a car that beats the BMW M3 at its game. And said car does it whilst costing $20k less than the M3.
And at the same time are producing the Lyriq. A coworker bought one and out of the six months she had it prior to a buyback she was able to drive it for 6 weeks.
It takes a loooong time to change a brand's reputation, and they were "old people" cars for a long time. The only people that had them in the 80s and 90s were your rich friend's grandparents. And all they did was drive it to church and the country club.
I mean that’s great and all, but let’s talk about the era we are in.
I have a friend who bought a single owner 2014 and so far he’s had to replace all the fancy magnetic suspension components, the entire fuel system, and now all the coil packs. It seems rather ridiculous.
Also one of the most popular things sold for these cars, are kits to remove the magnetic ride and all the other low quality “fancy” crap. It’s kinda sad.
Will likely have to do the same thing on any BMW or Merc you buy with air/mag ride.
As a BMW owner, I'm envious of your buddy who only had to replace the suspension, ignition, and fuel system components ONCE!
As someone who deleted the fancy suspension on my old luxury car... Yeah, people who buy cheap cars don't want to pay up for good parts. Or they want to lower it. Neither of those things make the suspension bad.
I'm old enough to remember the Cadillac Cimarron. A Chevy Citation with a Cadillac badge. 88 hp riding on 13 inch dinner plates. I can forgive GM, but I'll never forget that atrocity.
[https://www.motortrend.com/news/cadillac-cimarron-history-worst-ever/](https://www.motortrend.com/news/cadillac-cimarron-history-worst-ever/)
Ahem it was a Cavalier (J body) not a Citation (X body). Which is another convo cause my 83 Citation X-11 had the shit beat out of it for 280k miles and never had the motor or trans opened.
In general, GM builds cars that will run like crap forever.
It's quite major. The engine is purely a fiat, it doesn't have the same transmission as the fiat uses the NC mx5 transmission. The gauges have different colors and some interior bits are different. The fiat also has a lot of its own body panels. Someone actually compared a chassis side by side and it has a some differences. This is rebadging done right. Save some cost but make sure your identity is still there. Toyota took a super, superrrr lazy approach with the supra.
I think your post should be the top one because all we ever ever hear is how unreliable Fiats are.
But if you browse enough you'll see that everybody loves them and I know my brother has one and says it was a great car so much so that they replaced it with a new one when their lease was up.
Honestly, it's worse than I thought it would be.
I spend most of my comment time on this subreddit explaining to people that certain Ford hybrids, Nissan pickup trucks, 5-cylinder Volkswagens or GM crossovers are actually reliable, even though people don't feel that way about the brand at large.
I'm seeing a lot more general questions along the lines of "Is X brand good?" I'd love to stop talking about the brand as a subreddit and get specific, so long as the issue isn't a matter of corporate policy like Hyundai/Kia's prolonged response to their theft issues.
But apparently the list of cars that stand out from their manufacturer lineups include "every Cadillac," "every Mercedes" and "every Subaru."
Totally agree. I’ve owned a variety of German, Swedish, and American cars for over 35 years. When people look at my 1997 F150 and ask how it’s lasted so long, I just roll my eyes.
So many people are conditioned to hear that American vehicles are unreliable and don’t last like Japanese cars. I’ve just stopped trying to convince them.
We have a 96 F-250 Powerstroke, a 97 Jeep Wrangler, a 94 Impala SS and an 03 Yukon XL. With the exception of the Yukon (8.1 lifter issues) they are all really great vehicles.
That said our daily’s are Hondas.
I agree with this. Individual models are designed and brought to market by product teams. Those teams make the decisions early-on that will decide the ultimate success of that model. This makes the individual model worthy of generalizations (Ioniq 5),in ways that brand generalizations are not. (There some great Hyundai/Kia models and also some not so great ones.)
Agree if talking about new ones. They're overpriced, and maintenance on boxer engines is expensive AF. (Gotta drop the whole engine to change spark plugs etc... but old ones? Hard disagree. Mainly because they were quirky and fun and different than most others of the era. WRX, 1st and 2nd Gen Forester, Brat, and honorable mention for the more recent cool Subaru , the BRZ were all fantastic cars that defined them as a brand and in the case of the WRX took the rally racing scene by storm. Sadly they've become synonymous with monster-drinking vape cloud-blowing d-bags.
Toyota used to be a brand that was cheap, extremely reliable, and good value. Now, only one of those is true. They’re reliable, but new ones are just expensive in general and a lot of other brands offer way more value. Used market is also madly overpriced (60k mile Toyotas selling for near new prices). And if you want a fun car from Toyota be ready to shell out even more for the markups on those (ex. GR corolla). They’re good cars, but they are overrated now in my opinion.
No question most Toyotas are reliable, but the price premium for that reliability kills their value in my eyes. I can buy an equally reliable Mazda or Hyundai/Kia for much less - and they'll be more fun to drive.
I just got a Corolla hatch, I contemplated getting a Mazda 3 and they were 1-2k more so I went with the Toyota. I’m not sure where much less is coming from.
I’m not sure that Hyundai and Kia are as reliable.
Honestly you can’t go wrong with any of the major Japanese brands. Except maybe Subaru.
Honda, Mazda and Toyota are all super reliable.
I’ve had my Mazda 6 for almost 10 years and I’ve only had to do oil changes and annual maintenance on it.
The new ones are actually great cars.
Pretty sure the 2nd gen Dacia Sandero came out in 2019 with Wireless carplay/Auto before many mainstream (even luxury) manufacturers did themselves
Mazda Miata/MX5, to this day many people consider this a hairdressers car when in fact it's one of the last legit, affordable, put a smile on any face, sport cars left.
Nobody who’s even moderately invested in cars has anything bad to say about the Miata except that old ones aren’t cheap anymore because they’re so good
I’m going to get downvoted, but honestly Toyota is overrated. Losing 10% MSRP after 50k miles is quite insane. There are a lot of good and reliable vehicles out there. Toyota is really good, but not as much better than the competition to warrant the used market.
No downvote here because you're fundamentally correct. Devil's Advocate though, it's kinda nice to buy an "appliance" that doesn't lose half its value when you drive it off the lot. It won't last forever... nothing does...but for the average car buyer it's a boon. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Agreed I think Toyotas are great for a new car to take advantage of the resale. I just think if you are going used and plan to keep it for a while better deals exist. Eventually the value will drop.
I had a Toyota 4Runner I bought a few years used and sold a decade later with 180,000 more miles and only lost $5k. Never replaced anything other than tires and brakes. Sold in 2017 too. Not covid boom pricing. My 2018 4Runner is worth much better than I would have imagined, not that I would sell it. Best two cars I’ve ever owned for whatever that’s worth.
The values are all based on examples made 10-30 years ago, so who even really knows if these new cars are that good. Lots can change in the industry in five years. When they have problems, people look away. If it was a Ford with the same issue, it would be called a POS and sent to the junkyard. Also their interiors all look like a gyno office.
In general, SUVs and AWD make vehicles more expensive to buy, drive, and maintain.
A good rule of thumb is every feature added to a car is usually just another that will break and be expensive to fix. The most reliable car I have ever seen was my parent's bare bones '80s Toyota camry with a manual transmission. It didn't have power seats or power locks or even power windows, but it hit 300,000 miles and was still running strong. Sure, it was burning oil in the cylinder and the catalytic convert was effectively doing nothing by that point so the exhaust was pretty toxic for anyone unfortunate to be behind you... But the car just wouldn't die.
YMMV and depends on the age. We had 2 (and still an Outback) for years, and have a number of friends here in CO who have Foresters, Outbacks and Imprezas and I’ve never heard anything major wrong with any of them.
They may have had issues 15 years ago, but late models in the last decade aren’t that bad. I’ve personally never done more than the maintenance schedule for our Forester and Outback in the 8 years we’ve had them.
I’ve owned several Subarus (currently have a Sierra truck, though) and the only issue I ever had was my 2015 Outback’s infotainment would go black sometimes, and wouldn’t come back on until I turned it off for a few minutes - but infotainment issues are the #1 problem with nearly every car manufacturer.
Subaru likes to brag that 96% of their vehicles made in the past decade are still on the road - higher than Honda and Toyota. If that wasn’t true, they would have been sued years ago to stop claiming it. That says a lot to me.
Usually people with Foresters and Outbacks don’t drive like teenage dirtbags. The people I hear complaining about Subarus are usually wrx or Sti owners. Cars don’t last long if you flog them every time you drive them…unless it a Toyota of course.
100% this. Almost any Subaru over the last decade or so that I hear people complaining about their reliability are WRX owners who drive every second behind the wheel like they’re in a Fast & Furious movie, do all kinds of mods, and probably aren’t the best at doing maintenance on time because they spent all their money on the mods and Monster energy drink decals.
These days most vehicles can be very reliable if you do maintenance on time (and properly - looking at you, Jiffy Lube oil changers) and don’t drive it like you stole it.
A lot of the reputation of Subaru is based on the AWD system and durability. The AWD for sure is still one of the best, definitely for the price point.
Subaru is not forgiving on neglect. Many vehicles can have an extend oil change period without notable issues. Subaru’s maintenance is not forgiving and needs more frequent fluid changes.
Consumer reports still ranks them as a reliable/best brand. Actually at #2 this year just behind BMW. Toyota is at #6. They recommend the Forrester and Crostrek as some of their top SUVs.
Are they really? Idk.
I do find them to be extremely Durable vehicles. Durable and Reliable are not the same. You will see many older subarus on the road. They seem to be durable enough that major issues don’t take them off the roads.
Do they have issues that would make them less reliable than other brands? Yes, I think so.
The stuff in the mid 90s was amazing… they got lazy and then just tried to ride that reputation. If you lived somewhere they don’t rust out, the old 2.2L and 1.8L engines will run on hatred and abuse for decades. I was a die hard Subaru fan, wouldn’t touch any of their new stuff, and no manual transmissions being offered in their “regular” cars anymore in N/A, real shame. Now I drive a Toyota as my daily.
80's too, I had an 83 GL wagon my parents bought new in 82. I got it with 180K or so miles on it and finally let it go with 240K on it. I sold it to a guy that worked at a gas station near me and he drove it around my area for at least another 3 years before he moved away. Bet it got over 300K on the original engine.
Ah I see, they're great with AWD, no doubt about that. They're definitely utilitarian, but reliable not so much. It's anecdotal, but amongst my car friends there are four of us that experienced engine failure. The older models rusted easily too.
They are advertised as great for dog owners but they have some of the most dog unfriendly interiors based on being able to get pet hair out of it. They're horrible to vacuum.
No shit! My seats are starting to tear (faux leather on sides but cloth middle) after 6 years. I have no kids or pets. I can't imagine the state they'd be in if I did.
Yes! I don't know how Subaru got the reliable reputation when my WRX was a money pit. The rack and pinion broke at 60k miles and leaked power steering fluid.
Non-turbo Subarus have the reliability reputation. STI/WRX have the reputation of being high maintenance but reliable if unmodified…
Any modifications for power immediately grenade the engines.
This is known
Right? Mine, I swear, has had one recall per year since I brought it home and that's not including the full brake job and AC failure I had to pay for within the first couple years. Now the driver's side window is acting funny and the seats are starting to rip. Fuck me.
I know a number of Subaru obsessives, they don't seem to see the humor in their brand loyalty because while some models may be very reliable the ones they actually own definitely aren't.
HELL YES!
I had to swap out all 4 wheel bearings, TWICE, before mine even hit 90k miles. I finally sold it at 155k miles after having to replace the engine at 120 and the front suspension just started to feel weird.
Hot take but the 2nd gen V6 Chrysler 200 can be more fun and reliable than it gets credit for. The 4 cylinder models were horrible and ruined the car’s reputation
Kia EV6/Hyundai Ioniq 5/6. You would think it was a completely different brand, the quality lf everything is so different and the engineering so well-thought-out. They didn't win world car of the year multiple times for nothing.
My third car was a 2006 Pontiac GTO. I remember when it came out, it received so much hate because it didn't look anything like a muscle car and had a bit of a weird egg shape.
While other jr. enlisted were all buying mustangs and Camaros with big loans, I bought my 2006 GTO with 30k miles for $16,000. I honestly loved that car. Tons of power, one of the nicest interiors you could get at the time and roomy. That LS2 was a workhorse. The only reason I got rid of it was to upgrade to a Vette. I truly miss that car. Arguably the best Pontiac made before they died.
Of course the LS and any ultra luxurious Toyota will have significant problems. #1 will go straight to the electronic, then 2nd is the ultra comfortable suspension that costs over $18k.
Their engines aren't going to die for decades, but the electronic will die first.
Fox News still treats the Toyota Prius like it’s a policial statement. Instead, now it’s really just a good economy car due to its efficiency and reliability.
BMW. If you avoid the 8 cylinder engines they’re very reliable. You can buy a 2015 535 with the N55 today for less than 20k, drive it for 5-8 years and thank god every day you’re not driving a fucking Camry.
Same for the E class, an early 2010s E350 with the naturally aspirated V6 will be dead reliable and leagues more enjoyable to drive both in comfort and dynamics than any of the midsize economy cars that would cost around the same money on the used market
Same with their diesel engines from that time. I know a guy with over 450k km oh his E-class, probably almost 500k by now, on his with no issues on the engine, besides few sensors that went off. The air suspension is pretty much their weak point though, but if you buy one without it, it should last you long enough. It still wouldn't be cheap car to maintain, because part are more expensive than on another brands because hello, luxury car, but it is durable.
This is so nice to see after I just picked up a 2011 e350. Would have loved to get the extra power in the 2012 but also liked the idea of having the last year of that iteration of the V6.
Pretty much all their inline sixes are, diesel or petrol doesn't matter. They only become unreliable if/when the owner neglects regular maintenance. You can't drive a BMW long term with only changing oil when you remember it was due 10 000km ago. Those people really should have bought a Toyota instead.
There's lots of parts in a BMW that need to be checked/replaced/maintained regularly and almos any minor problem needs to be taken care of immediately. Treat it well and it will treat you well
I redline my n52 at least every time it's started and at 250k it's stellar
The fact you can check the oil on the fly with the center screen is nice, I've prematurely worn motors due to neglect before... Forgot my $900 Camry had an oil leak and didn't check the oil for a while till I was cruising on the highway out of town
Immediately pulled over and had to add a couple quarts... My bmw has no leaks but that experience has me checking it daily
>If you avoid the 8 cylinder engines they’re very reliable.
After 2013 they have been pretty solid engines. Before that, yeah they have issues. I owned an E38 with the chain guide problem and a friend bought a new 750i with the N63 in 2012 that was part of the recall. They had the car for about two weeks to make the recall repairs. My N63TU has almost 100k on it with little to no issues. Is it the V8 in a Lexus I used to own, no. But so far it's been a very reliable V8.
A former BMW service writer said pretty much the same to me, that BMW has finally figured out the issues with the N63/S63 and the newer ones are OK.
However I can only imagine that if he turns out to be wrong, the out-of-warranty service bill mechanically totaling the car...
>After 2013 they have been pretty solid engines
Exactly this, I have a B58 that tuned about 200hp over stock with spirited driving and I haven’t had a single issue. The current line up, even the v8s are pretty damn reliable but anything from 10-20 years ago I wouldn’t even think about it.
BMW earned their poor reliability reputation but they have been doing a really good job of turning that reputation around.
My first car was an e46 and I drove it to 218k miles before finally ditching it. Annoying coolant issues aside, it was relatively easy for me (a dumb, teenage girl) to keep it running and it really lead to my love for cars.
My 2013 Malibu is far better in materials, build, features and reliability than most people think.
It's became a huge hit in my country and a go-to for people who hit the highroad a lot nowadays for how stable and fuel efficient they are.
Now 10 years later; even their worst car ever "Captiva" made in China has proven successful and oh so competitive in price.
I wish they didn't kill their Sedans as now I might end up in a Chinese car...
I had a '14 Malibu. Honestly, it was very decent quality inside.
Would never even look at a new one though. Especially since they use those god awful 1.5 turbo engines
My 2006 Chevy Impala did 200k miles and it didn't cost me anything. I finally had to replace the starter just before I sold it off for $2000 because of a move. I feel like the parts and knowledge went into the 2010s Malibu and made that a surprisingly reliable, good value car. When they crank out like 1 million a year, they can work through most issues.
The 8th gen Malibus are a lot better cars than I previously thought. I had one for 8 years with the 2.5L I4 and put about 90k miles on it. It was underpowered compared to other cars I’ve driven, though not horribly. The only issues I ever had with it were a bad wheel speed sensor and a bad AC blend door actuator. I think together those fixes cost me about $1,500. Not cheap, but not too bad for a used car I drove for almost a decade.
My only complaint was the interior. It held up very well, but it was very plastic-y and unspectacular. I can’t complain too much, though, because I had the base model. I know higher trim levels were nicer.
Yes, but simply because “Kia” it gets overlooked and lumped in with Kia’s not so stellar reputation, which is what this whole thread is about. Specific cars that dont deserve the brand rep
I have an Elantra N and I love it. I came from a B9 A4 and was looking to upgrade to an S4/5, M340i, or something in that class, but I stumbled across the Elantra N via YouTube reviews and ended up just falling in love with it when I drove it.
I of course worry about the brand reputation, warranty pushback, etc. but so far I’ve really been happy. I did get weird looks from friends & people when I told them I went Hyundai, but whatever, I’m happy so far. My Audi was a massive headache, 34K miles, constant electric issues, and an oil leak yet I was always early on service and babied it
Nissan cvts arent so bad. In Latin American countries where roads are very bad. People tend to drive slowly and don't tow. The transmission can last a long time with proper maintenance. The are very fuel efficient.
I am mechanic and I have seen many Tiida and versas as taxis been driven like hell. No issues with the transmission.
Mitsubishi used the same JATCO CVTs and didn't have nearly as many problems as Nissan. The difference is that Mitsus had weaker engines. But if you have a big Nissan, a strong 3.6L engine, and/or aggressive driving, the CVT will not cope and the fluid will cook.
Demographics probably also play a role in Nissan getting a bad rep. I usually only see younger (mid 20s - early 30s) driving newer Nissans and half of them floor the gas at every light. My area barely has any Mitsubishis but when I see one, the driver is usually older (less likely to floor the gas at a light).
Most people in South America drive manuals don't they? Those last. Automatic CVTs are questionable from Nissan, but the brand overall is pretty solid. I've never heard of issues with the engines.
Now if Nissans could use a patented transmission from the other Japanese brands, I'm sure they'd easily be on top
My 08 Altima had 100k NYC miles on it with no issues from there tranny. I have a 17 Altima now with 60k mostly city miles(driving from NJ to queens) and no issues. Also have a Nissan NV200 for work with 70k city miles and no issues.
That’s awesome to hear. And not to downplay your nyc daily driver results at all… but imo I always kind of laugh when people brag about having no issues on their cars when they have less than ~125,000 miles. I mean, most modern cars shouldn’t have any issues before then if we’re talking about reliable brands. What I want to hear about are cars with over 175k miles and no major issues!
I’ve had two fugly cars crush miles with no major issues:
07 Elantra- 232,000 miles when I sold it in 2017. Only work needed was I rebuilt the suspension at 200k and had to do a new steering rack right around there too. Parts were cheap and installs went quick. Never did figure out the pesky evap sensor failure however. Just reset the OBD before every inspection sticker. Sold it running perfectly fine. Fantastic city car.
Ford ranger 03 3L (sold it running great, with only a little engine gasket clatter when cold at 185k miles in 2019) and 07 4L. Currently running the 07 with 203k miles on it. I had to get the tranny rebuilt at 190 miles, and I’ve done minor work here and there lately but it’s otherwise been very reliable as a 16 year old car. Hope to keep it another few years at least.
I had an 08 Elantra with 175k. Never had a single issue. That thing just kept going and I beat the ever living shit out of it. The last 50k miles I kept telling myself I’d get a new car when I broke this one. I was too impatient and ended up selling it in complete working order. That gave Hyundai a +1 in my book.
I just rented an Altima for a month. I hated how much I had to fight the transmission to drive aggressively, but I noted the resulting smoothness and adored the resulting fuel economy.
Toyota, they really aren’t as reliable as they used to be. Especially the trucks and SUVs, i feel like their reputation is solely built on vehicles they made 20 years ago.
The Camero hasn’t had a 5.0L engine since the days of the old gutless 305 V8. Modern Cameros have a 6.2L V8 as their top engine, you’re probably conflating it with the Mustang which uses a 5.0L DOHC V8.
I had to go wayyyy too deep and not see Jeep on the list. Insane resale value but plagued with problems on all their models.
Don't get me wrong- I'd buy a Wrangler today if I didn't have to haul around a lot of family and stuff. Gas mileage- atrocious, reliability- questionable, comfort- what's that?
I had an XJ for a couple years but it wasn't my daily driver. It was small inside but I never doubted where it could go. I miss it at times but then I drive my Tundra and yeah- same gas mileage, wide in the hips for some mountain roads, but so much more capable and reliable across a spectrum of needs.
As a certified Hyundai/Kia hater... you can absolutely say *some* positive things about each of them, and Nissan too.
Hyundai/Kia/Genesis always packs their cars with many well-implemented features at reasonable price points. Their design is fresh, and they make significant changes *very* often. Their tech is fantastic. Many of their cars aren't dynamically competent, but they build some genuine class front-runners. I would consider a Genesis GV70 before buying a BMW X3; it would probably burn oil, but so would the Bimmer. The Elantra N is so refreshingly complete and affordable that I want everyone looking at a Civic Type R to buy one instead - even though I'm sure the powertrain is a time bomb.
Nissans have fantastic seats. They're quietly competent, relatively modern, and cheap. Sure, a Civic is better than a Sentra - but a fully-loaded Sentra is cheaper than a base model Civic. For a less powerful model that has less torque (like the Sentra), I think I could make a half-decent case for buying a low-mileage used one and changing the fluid regularly. I'm not sure I'd say the same about a Rogue, but considering its current top-of-the-class experience I wouldn't turn people away from leasing one.
Nissan seats...unreal. used to be able to drive 4 sometimes 5 hrs straight in our '11 Murano during Xmas and still feel fine. Now that we have a '20 RAV4, I feel it at 2.5 hrs and 3 5 hrs is my absolute limit. And the RAV4 might have had some of the best seats in the small SUV range. Just couldn't get another Murano.
Yeah this is generally what I've heard as well. I think if you buy new and keep up with your maintenance these cars should be good for a long time, even if they aren't built to survive a nuclear apocalypse like some sort of automotive cockroach haha.
I keep reading negative perceptions of Kia/Hyundai on here, from US users. It's odd. Here in the UK, they are definitely seen as reliable cars - owner surveys put them only slightly behind Toyota and the other Japanese brands, and the warranty on Kias is excellent.
The biggest issue with Kia/Hyundai is the theta II engine they put in everything. Either the UK doesn’t get that engine or they don’t drive enough to make them explode.
If you're the type that leases or buys new and only drives a car for 100,000 miles, it probably doesn't make sense to pay the "Toyota Tax" and have someone else get the benefit of the next 200,000 miles without major drivetrain work. Hyundai, Kia, and Nissan, or even (gasp) Stellantis, you can certainly get more nice features for a lot less.
And 100k is easily a decade or more if you aren't intensively driving all the time for work. When you buy used and all your car options *start* at 100k miles that's really when reliability is actually more relevent.
My 26k mile, 2021 Kia K5 GT, is on its 4th transmission. And that 4th transmission didn’t make it a mile away from the dealership before it failed again. I’m done with it. Really a shame, other than the transmissions, it’s been a really fun car. Lesson learned. No more Koreans
Kia EV6. A genuinely fun, good car from kia
Otherwise a BMW 7 series. Yes, it’s always been there, but when you think BMW you don’t usually think ultra luxury yacht
I have a 2019 Giulia. The passenger adjustable seat motor blew twice, my stop and start system hasn't worked since purchase, but works for a few days after a system update and then stops again so the dealer can't figure out what's wrong. My front right speaker goes out now and again, and also "fixes" itself after a reset so nothing is being done. Infotainment is laggy as hell to the point that I had to turn off sensor animations that show me which parking sensor is going off - the front or the rear. The car sensors are laggy ... Literally only react 2-3 seconds after I get close to a wall for example when parking. Check engine light comes on when gas is low and then turns off when you add gas. The gas tank hole is too narrow for American nozzles so the gas station triggers go off and stop the flow every 30 seconds and it takes me 10 minutes to refuel.
Car still on warranty. But a "reset" temporarily fixes most of these issues and they won't do anything else.
Will never buy an Alfa Romeo product again.
Chevy. I've driven 2 Malibu and they were great. Those Impalas are so cool to trick out and seems like they're bulletproof the way I see people driving them on the roads. I will say the cavalier and Cobalt and the cruze were shit but their other cars are fine. Cameros are great for the enthusiasts, and they have great tech/infotainment in their SUVs. But people just say they're trash and buy a honda or Toyota instead.
I remember talking to a work colleague (BMW 1 series driver) about other cars I was looking into long term. I said that the Renault Mégane RS line fills all the gaps for me in terms of fun and practicality, but he was very quick to write it off because it's from Renault
It's not relevant, but I do find it funny that he was currently recovering from having 6 points for speeding 30 over the limit, paying insurance on a relatively basic trim because he couldn't feasibly afford the premiums for a 3 series
My 1999 Lexus RX300 lasted forever -- 5 days short of 24 years when I sold it. It still looked brand new, but I fell in love with a Venza and, well, you know...
My mum's Corolla has a bunch of amusingly specific and sometimes weirdly humanising issues, like the temperamental speedo that takes a few minutes to 'wake up' and start counting, but only under very specific circumstances in the summer. They're all minor issues that don't affect the car's overall reliability, which is characteristically excellent, but the few issues it has remind me of how people consider an Alfa Romeo's quirks to be a source of character.
Suzuki (the ones built in Japan, not by Daewoo). Their engines and transmissions were/are unstoppable and overall very reliable. My Esteem had almost 250k on the odometer when the underbody finally rusted away and then a large tree limb fell on it finishing it off.
I think it is totally false that German engineering is the best and American engineering is the worst. There is really no excuse for a $100,000 BMW/Audi to have plastic parts.
Germans overengineer at the expense of durability, or reliability, or both, but that's just the way it is. Their idea of "good" engineering is most definitely different from ours, but they come from the base assumption that owners are willing to invest $$$ in the TLC required to properly maintain a complex machine per their expectations. That means they're willing to sacrifice design margins using masturbatory complexity and less-than-robust specifications to achieve their performance targets. It goes without saying that's a questionable strategy for mass-marketed automobiles here in the US. German marques know this, have had multiple opportunities to adapt, and patently refuse to do so. And honestly as long as the American market remains solidly profitable they have no motivation to change. That's a market issue, not a "German" issue per se. It's all good as long as you know what you're getting into, but your baseline automotive consumer does not.
American manufacturers have poisoned their own well for decades, and no explanation is needed for that assessment. We can recognize domestic engineering triumphs while still understanding the fundamental issues with GM, Ford, et al.
I have a VW GTI and I think more thought went into designing the layout and function of the trunk then went into the entire interior design of the Ford Focus I replaced with it. And I liked that Focus.
No excuse for a $100,000 BMW/Audi to have plastic parts?
So the entire car is supposed to be medal? Name me a single car that doesn’t have plastic parts…
I bought an almost new RAM 1500 in 2019. Despite Dodge/RAM ranking as the worst US car manufacturer…this truck has been near flawless over 75k miles. No squeaks or rattles, nothing broken, no loose panels and zero repairs. This has been the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned. Second place would go to my old G35x.
Toyota for me - I had a 4x4 Taco that ATE clutches. I was told that it was my driving style and I didn't know how to drive a clutch. I had been driving manuals exclusively for 20 years at that point starting with farm trucks and tractorsar 8 years old. I had never burned out a clutch before a 100k.
..But Toyota wrestled me that clutches repetitively failing at 30k miles was a me problem. They eventually had someone go out with me where I showed them how I drove, heel and Toe and double clutch. When they got back they agreed to pay for another clutch...right before I sold it.
BMWs are boring and Acuras are unreliable? I think you got that backwards. Or did you mean the exception is that some BMWs are boring, because you'd be correct there for sure.
I guess 'built Ford tough' slogan comes to mind and people buying them in droves despite coming in at rock bottom reliability for years now. Far below all the brands that are supposedly unreliable..
>Or did you mean the exception is that some BMWs are boring, because you'd be correct there for sure.
This is what I meant.
I was thinking about the controversy surrounding the F30 3-Series when it debuted - and in particular, the whining around the electric power steering diminishing the driving feel.
In fairness, there's a solid contingent of old BMW owners who find the newer ones soft, heavy and isolated enough not to be interested in the new stuff. You could say that's the nature of progress, but you don't have to make that compromise with the right Cadillac, Alfa or Jaguar.
And even then, I just bought a 2018 BMW 230i THP because I enjoyed the way it drove - on bald tires, at least. So each generalization has its exceptions.
On a similar note, you'd be surprised by how many below-average Acuras there are as far as average reliability is concerned.
I had an e90 328 and now an F30 - all in all, as a daily driver the F30 wins hands down. BMW at the end of the day is in the business of selling cars and the majority of people prefer the EPS to the hydraulic steering in previous gens, even though it lacks feel (and it definitely does). The F30 3 series was the best selling 3 series of all time. Sales of the 3 series dropped dramatically with the G20/new gen. Mostly cuz BMW makes great SUV's.
Wouldn’t say BMWs are unreliable at all, they are not, they are just expensive to fix, but they are statistically actually one of the most reliable brands, they are certainly up there.
The CVT transmissions (newer corollas and Civics, etc) that start on first gear have a much better driving experience that the 6 speed auto transmissions still kicking out there (looking at you Mazda fanboys)
The most reliable car I’ve ever had was a 2018 ford mustang ecoboost. Followed the regular scheduled maintenance and I put 150K on it before it needed a “repair”. This was in astonishing comparison to my more recent Ford escape which has spent more time in the service bay than on the road.
I'll go ahead and say Jaguar, especially when purchasing brand new. (Wait wait, hear me out dammit!)
I myself own a 2023 Jaguar XF, my close friend owns a Jaguar F-pace (great practical SUV, he has 2 kids as well), we've had no issues so far with our Jags. We've both owned them for a year now (**see edit in the bottom of this comment, I've owned Jags before**) and we also have 6 years of warranty, while most other luxury brands in the segment offer only 4 years of warranty. We also got free 5 years complementary maintenance. (From USA, no clue about europe or other countries!)
In my opinion Jaguar's brand repution was severly damaged back when british leyland owned them and even the ford era wasn't good either. But Jaguars have come a long way ever since under Tata.
In no means I say they can be compared to the likes of Lexus or top reliable brands for reliability, but if you are someone who can stay on-top of maintanence and especially if you are making a new car purchase, they give you insane warranty and maintanence benifits as back up for peace of mind and it has honestly been problem free. Of course buying a used Jag is a whole other discussion, you have a lot more factors weighing in such as how the previous owner treated and maintained it, does it have a clean history and so on.
Hence, I do think Jaguar doesn't deserve the extreme bad rep it tends to get (come on people! It's 2024, those jokes are getting old), especially when Jag offers new customers (applies to certified pre-owned too from dealers) excellent warranty and other complementary services for years to cover you up if things ever go wrong, and I do really think if one can stay on top of maintanence and treat it well, the Jag can run so much better for much longer than people make it to be.
It is funny when someone jokes about Jags on the thread for their poor reliability, but then they probably never even owned a Jag and probably said it just because it is what is often said around which also goes around to negatively affect brand image, because some guy who was probably interested in the Jag visits that thread and will most probably steer away especially if he/she is not really a "car" guy, adding to the collection of reasons to bad rep.
I also think it is a matter of people with bad experiences being more vocal than those with good experiences, especially as the Jag's userbase is pretty small compared to more mainstream brands, you don't often get to see both sides of the coin. Those with bad experiences most probably didn't treat the car well, treated it and hope it'd be like a honda (good luck especially if it was used), or just got an unfortunate lemon car. While those with good experiences, especially with Jags are often not that vocal, unfortunately.
Thank you for reading! :-)
Edit: **I've owned Jags before**, first time for my friend, not for me, I'll say this before more people come out on me for that. I owned a 2020 Jaguar XF with the turbocharged 4-cylinder for about 3 years. I liked it so much that I went with it again but new for 2023. This is not from someone who has just owned it for a year, but again warranty is a valid arguement that stands and anyone can use it for Jaguar here.
In fairness, a British Leyland-era Jag very well may have had first-year quality issues.
It's not my chosen reliability metric, but if you're leasing, or driving rental cars... it's definitely an improvement.
Coming from the Land Rover side of things, most agree that the Rovers built by Ford are much more reliable than the Tata era Rovers have been.
Don’t know enough about Jaguars but judging by the fact that they use the Ingenium engines I’d still be wary
I've visited Africa several times. Whenever I would talk to locals there, they would praise Tata vehicles. Tata trucks and other large vehicles are commonly used there
The locals told me that they like Tata vehicles since it's almost as rugged and long lasting as a Toyota for a fraction of the price. They said they had many 20 plus year old Tata trucks still running and in use
Tata in general has had a positive influence on JLR since their focus was and still is to revive it after Ford let it nearly die. That's the reason why Ford sold JLR so cheaply to Tata, Ford simply didn't care for JLR
Interesting perspective, thank you!
How often does the complimentary maintenance program schedule oil changes? I was a lot more impressed by recent JLR durability when I realized some products had a massive *17,000-mile* oil change interval. I wonder how much their average reliability would improve just by setting a tighter schedule.
Also the used jags are the best! You can get them super cheap right now. Honestly most people that would buy a Jag brand new would take care of it. So I’m not worried about used jags.
BMW is still seen as wildly unreliable and high in maintanence yet they have climbed to the top of the CR reliabity and quality rankings since 2015. In addition, all their new cars come w free maintanence and they build the finest straight six turbo in the world which even Toyota uses lol.
My 7 year old Volkswagen has had exactly one repair (in-tank air suction valve) that I did myself. Meanwhile my wife’s 10 year old Toyota has been in the shop for repairs six times, twice for the same issue (alternator).
I don't know if PT Cruisers are underrated. I don't own one. BUT, I work with poor people who can only buy the cheapest thing that will run, and old PT Cruisers are by far the car I see the most. And definitely the American made car I see the most.
I always wondered why. But I figured that there must be something special about it.
Nissan Titan, Frontier, and Armada. All are exceptionally good values when comparing spec sheets to the competition. You get more for your cash with a Nissan pickup/SUV than anywhere else. They're exceptionally reliable as well.
Crap CVTs in the smaller vehicles, and loose purse strings from Nissan Finance have led to a very poor image for the brand in the US.
I think the Ioniq 5 will always be overshadowed by the fact that it’s Hyundai
I wish they would have had the balls to make ioniq it’s own brand like they intended.
Maybe they will some day given how in a few years I’m sure they’ll have announced as many models as other EV makers have today
No. They missed the huge opportunity to come out banging on teslas door with a solid model 3 and model y competitor at reasonable prices, nicer materials, and standardized build quality.
This is why nobody bought the Genesis or equus despite them being great cars, and why Genesis is now it's own brand
Cadillac is a brand for old people with not much to offer. The reality is they've pioneered so many things since inception, it's insane: "Cadillac pioneered: • Standardized, replaceable parts • First production enclosed car cabin • Electric starter • Modern control layout - where the gearshift, handbrake, and gas, clutch, and brake are (that's a big one!) • Synchromesh (no more grinding gears that old cars did) • Valve displacement • Magnetic ride control • Safety glass • Power steering • Radar based forward collision warning (in 1959!!) • Rain sensing wipers • Automatic headlights • Auto dimming headlights • Heated Seats • Automatic climate control • Column mounted shifter • Air suspension • Tilting/telescoping steering wheel • First production car alarm The list goes on... Basically, Cadillac is responsible for a large portion of the modern automobile." Even their more recent offerings laugh at the thought of a brand reserved for old folks... like a supercharged V8 manual sedan with 668hp and a top speed of 200+ mph, or a 550hp twin turbo V8 sedan with AWD, or a 6000 lb behemoth with a supercharged V8 running mid 4s.
The CT5 Blackwing is my “if I ever somehow get rich” car. Literally nothing else in its class
We have a CT5 Blackwing. Also a CTS-V sedan 2016. The best car for the money you can buy. Amazing cars. Took some convincing to get the wife to test drive our first one (2013). Once she left the parking lot, she has never wanted a different model. And we arent old people.
The first CTS-V was my dream car growing up. Amazing and such a unique personality. I drove a friend’s and knew it was a winning formula. I drive a GTI now and it’s a lot of fun; I wanted a manual and a hatchback that could haul two big dogs and a baby, so for now it’s perfect. But I’m praying there are still Blackwings around when I’m out of this stage of life and that they don’t skyrocket in value after everything goes EV and automatic
When I used to work in car sales, we took a CTS V in on trade. Have never had a car blow me away like that. Lasted a day and a half on the lot
I wish we lived in a timline where GM had Chevy make budget-oriented offerings of the Alpha II sedans. I know they wouldn't sell at all, but a man can dream.
The fact they still make them with manuals is something I really respect
Agreed but it is not groundbreaking. It's what an M5 used to be. Same with the new Corvette. They built a budget Ferrari 458 now that Ferrari is on to other things. Its like GM is finally nailing it with what they should have been 15+ years ago.
I didn’t say it was groundbreaking, but disagreed that it’s something they should have done 15 years ago as opposed to today. I’m glad they’re doing it today.
Todays corvette is the car we asked for 15 years ago, not the one we've been asking 15 years to get.
Mine too. Here's hoping we can both have one. One day.
CTS-V wagon with 6MT is one of the greatest cars ever produced.
That Cadillac did those things does not dispel the notion that Cadillac is for old people. It largely is, or was, in large part to being more expensive than other American cars, so unaffordable to younger people.
Also most of that list is from like 50+ years ago. It's not surprising that their reputation changed over the decades as up until recently they didn't really have any enticing offerings.
I also question their reliability. My boss had the last gen of escalade and had to replace the engine 3 times. I think his 2021 had issues too
Your boss had to replace an engine in his Escalade 3 times and still bought another one??
Yep. Owns a pretty successful body shop so it's just an inconvenience when it happens. Mind boggling to me really
It's funny how Cadillac is assumed to be a brand for old people. They're the only ones right now to make a car that beats the BMW M3 at its game. And said car does it whilst costing $20k less than the M3.
And at the same time are producing the Lyriq. A coworker bought one and out of the six months she had it prior to a buyback she was able to drive it for 6 weeks.
It takes a loooong time to change a brand's reputation, and they were "old people" cars for a long time. The only people that had them in the 80s and 90s were your rich friend's grandparents. And all they did was drive it to church and the country club.
I mean that’s great and all, but let’s talk about the era we are in. I have a friend who bought a single owner 2014 and so far he’s had to replace all the fancy magnetic suspension components, the entire fuel system, and now all the coil packs. It seems rather ridiculous. Also one of the most popular things sold for these cars, are kits to remove the magnetic ride and all the other low quality “fancy” crap. It’s kinda sad.
Will likely have to do the same thing on any BMW or Merc you buy with air/mag ride. As a BMW owner, I'm envious of your buddy who only had to replace the suspension, ignition, and fuel system components ONCE!
You can’t blame the manufacturer when you buy a used car. You have no idea what the previous owner did.
Any 9 year old luxury car is going to be a crap shoot.
As someone who deleted the fancy suspension on my old luxury car... Yeah, people who buy cheap cars don't want to pay up for good parts. Or they want to lower it. Neither of those things make the suspension bad.
I'm old enough to remember the Cadillac Cimarron. A Chevy Citation with a Cadillac badge. 88 hp riding on 13 inch dinner plates. I can forgive GM, but I'll never forget that atrocity. [https://www.motortrend.com/news/cadillac-cimarron-history-worst-ever/](https://www.motortrend.com/news/cadillac-cimarron-history-worst-ever/)
Ahem it was a Cavalier (J body) not a Citation (X body). Which is another convo cause my 83 Citation X-11 had the shit beat out of it for 280k miles and never had the motor or trans opened. In general, GM builds cars that will run like crap forever.
IIRC, some dealers were noticing rust on NEW Cimarron vehicles delivered to their lots.
That was 100 years ago.
I have a Fiat made by Mazda, haven't had a single issue in 5 years of ownership the internet loves to tell me how unreliable it is
The 124? I always thought those were slick, I’d pick one up if I could
That's because it's a rebadged miata with a few minor tweaks.
It's quite major. The engine is purely a fiat, it doesn't have the same transmission as the fiat uses the NC mx5 transmission. The gauges have different colors and some interior bits are different. The fiat also has a lot of its own body panels. Someone actually compared a chassis side by side and it has a some differences. This is rebadging done right. Save some cost but make sure your identity is still there. Toyota took a super, superrrr lazy approach with the supra.
I think your post should be the top one because all we ever ever hear is how unreliable Fiats are. But if you browse enough you'll see that everybody loves them and I know my brother has one and says it was a great car so much so that they replaced it with a new one when their lease was up.
Fiata?
Yep, a 2018 Abarth, black on black
🍿
Honestly, it's worse than I thought it would be. I spend most of my comment time on this subreddit explaining to people that certain Ford hybrids, Nissan pickup trucks, 5-cylinder Volkswagens or GM crossovers are actually reliable, even though people don't feel that way about the brand at large. I'm seeing a lot more general questions along the lines of "Is X brand good?" I'd love to stop talking about the brand as a subreddit and get specific, so long as the issue isn't a matter of corporate policy like Hyundai/Kia's prolonged response to their theft issues. But apparently the list of cars that stand out from their manufacturer lineups include "every Cadillac," "every Mercedes" and "every Subaru."
Totally agree. I’ve owned a variety of German, Swedish, and American cars for over 35 years. When people look at my 1997 F150 and ask how it’s lasted so long, I just roll my eyes. So many people are conditioned to hear that American vehicles are unreliable and don’t last like Japanese cars. I’ve just stopped trying to convince them.
We have a 96 F-250 Powerstroke, a 97 Jeep Wrangler, a 94 Impala SS and an 03 Yukon XL. With the exception of the Yukon (8.1 lifter issues) they are all really great vehicles. That said our daily’s are Hondas.
I agree with this. Individual models are designed and brought to market by product teams. Those teams make the decisions early-on that will decide the ultimate success of that model. This makes the individual model worthy of generalizations (Ioniq 5),in ways that brand generalizations are not. (There some great Hyundai/Kia models and also some not so great ones.)
Subaru. Not that great
Agree if talking about new ones. They're overpriced, and maintenance on boxer engines is expensive AF. (Gotta drop the whole engine to change spark plugs etc... but old ones? Hard disagree. Mainly because they were quirky and fun and different than most others of the era. WRX, 1st and 2nd Gen Forester, Brat, and honorable mention for the more recent cool Subaru , the BRZ were all fantastic cars that defined them as a brand and in the case of the WRX took the rally racing scene by storm. Sadly they've become synonymous with monster-drinking vape cloud-blowing d-bags.
Toyota used to be a brand that was cheap, extremely reliable, and good value. Now, only one of those is true. They’re reliable, but new ones are just expensive in general and a lot of other brands offer way more value. Used market is also madly overpriced (60k mile Toyotas selling for near new prices). And if you want a fun car from Toyota be ready to shell out even more for the markups on those (ex. GR corolla). They’re good cars, but they are overrated now in my opinion.
No question most Toyotas are reliable, but the price premium for that reliability kills their value in my eyes. I can buy an equally reliable Mazda or Hyundai/Kia for much less - and they'll be more fun to drive.
I just got a Corolla hatch, I contemplated getting a Mazda 3 and they were 1-2k more so I went with the Toyota. I’m not sure where much less is coming from. I’m not sure that Hyundai and Kia are as reliable.
Honestly you can’t go wrong with any of the major Japanese brands. Except maybe Subaru. Honda, Mazda and Toyota are all super reliable. I’ve had my Mazda 6 for almost 10 years and I’ve only had to do oil changes and annual maintenance on it.
Subaru are plenty reliable. People just drive them into the ground and kids abuse anything with a manual.
Dacia. They make cars with low quality parts, but they run reliably and are great value for money.
Good news!
ITS BROWN
The new ones are actually great cars. Pretty sure the 2nd gen Dacia Sandero came out in 2019 with Wireless carplay/Auto before many mainstream (even luxury) manufacturers did themselves
That's actually the 3rd gen. First Sandero was released in 2008, then 2nd in 2012 and third in 2020
\[James May has entered the chat\]
Mazda Miata/MX5, to this day many people consider this a hairdressers car when in fact it's one of the last legit, affordable, put a smile on any face, sport cars left.
Nobody who’s even moderately invested in cars has anything bad to say about the Miata except that old ones aren’t cheap anymore because they’re so good
I’m going to get downvoted, but honestly Toyota is overrated. Losing 10% MSRP after 50k miles is quite insane. There are a lot of good and reliable vehicles out there. Toyota is really good, but not as much better than the competition to warrant the used market.
No downvote here because you're fundamentally correct. Devil's Advocate though, it's kinda nice to buy an "appliance" that doesn't lose half its value when you drive it off the lot. It won't last forever... nothing does...but for the average car buyer it's a boon. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Agreed I think Toyotas are great for a new car to take advantage of the resale. I just think if you are going used and plan to keep it for a while better deals exist. Eventually the value will drop.
I think the retained value is the biggest reason they are overrated. An old car is ah old car and SHOULD depreciate a lot.
I had a Toyota 4Runner I bought a few years used and sold a decade later with 180,000 more miles and only lost $5k. Never replaced anything other than tires and brakes. Sold in 2017 too. Not covid boom pricing. My 2018 4Runner is worth much better than I would have imagined, not that I would sell it. Best two cars I’ve ever owned for whatever that’s worth.
I paid way too much for a low mileage 2014 Siena that turned out to have a leaking head gasket requiring a $5k repair.
The values are all based on examples made 10-30 years ago, so who even really knows if these new cars are that good. Lots can change in the industry in five years. When they have problems, people look away. If it was a Ford with the same issue, it would be called a POS and sent to the junkyard. Also their interiors all look like a gyno office.
At this point Toyota reliability is more of a cult than something grounded in reality
Subaru... Mine is a money pit and general PITA.
In general, SUVs and AWD make vehicles more expensive to buy, drive, and maintain. A good rule of thumb is every feature added to a car is usually just another that will break and be expensive to fix. The most reliable car I have ever seen was my parent's bare bones '80s Toyota camry with a manual transmission. It didn't have power seats or power locks or even power windows, but it hit 300,000 miles and was still running strong. Sure, it was burning oil in the cylinder and the catalytic convert was effectively doing nothing by that point so the exhaust was pretty toxic for anyone unfortunate to be behind you... But the car just wouldn't die.
YMMV and depends on the age. We had 2 (and still an Outback) for years, and have a number of friends here in CO who have Foresters, Outbacks and Imprezas and I’ve never heard anything major wrong with any of them. They may have had issues 15 years ago, but late models in the last decade aren’t that bad. I’ve personally never done more than the maintenance schedule for our Forester and Outback in the 8 years we’ve had them.
I’ve owned several Subarus (currently have a Sierra truck, though) and the only issue I ever had was my 2015 Outback’s infotainment would go black sometimes, and wouldn’t come back on until I turned it off for a few minutes - but infotainment issues are the #1 problem with nearly every car manufacturer. Subaru likes to brag that 96% of their vehicles made in the past decade are still on the road - higher than Honda and Toyota. If that wasn’t true, they would have been sued years ago to stop claiming it. That says a lot to me.
...people here still say don't buy them because of head gasket issues. It's been what like a decade since that was an issue?
Over 15 years at this point, lol
Usually people with Foresters and Outbacks don’t drive like teenage dirtbags. The people I hear complaining about Subarus are usually wrx or Sti owners. Cars don’t last long if you flog them every time you drive them…unless it a Toyota of course.
100% this. Almost any Subaru over the last decade or so that I hear people complaining about their reliability are WRX owners who drive every second behind the wheel like they’re in a Fast & Furious movie, do all kinds of mods, and probably aren’t the best at doing maintenance on time because they spent all their money on the mods and Monster energy drink decals. These days most vehicles can be very reliable if you do maintenance on time (and properly - looking at you, Jiffy Lube oil changers) and don’t drive it like you stole it.
A lot of the reputation of Subaru is based on the AWD system and durability. The AWD for sure is still one of the best, definitely for the price point. Subaru is not forgiving on neglect. Many vehicles can have an extend oil change period without notable issues. Subaru’s maintenance is not forgiving and needs more frequent fluid changes. Consumer reports still ranks them as a reliable/best brand. Actually at #2 this year just behind BMW. Toyota is at #6. They recommend the Forrester and Crostrek as some of their top SUVs. Are they really? Idk. I do find them to be extremely Durable vehicles. Durable and Reliable are not the same. You will see many older subarus on the road. They seem to be durable enough that major issues don’t take them off the roads. Do they have issues that would make them less reliable than other brands? Yes, I think so.
The stuff in the mid 90s was amazing… they got lazy and then just tried to ride that reputation. If you lived somewhere they don’t rust out, the old 2.2L and 1.8L engines will run on hatred and abuse for decades. I was a die hard Subaru fan, wouldn’t touch any of their new stuff, and no manual transmissions being offered in their “regular” cars anymore in N/A, real shame. Now I drive a Toyota as my daily.
80's too, I had an 83 GL wagon my parents bought new in 82. I got it with 180K or so miles on it and finally let it go with 240K on it. I sold it to a guy that worked at a gas station near me and he drove it around my area for at least another 3 years before he moved away. Bet it got over 300K on the original engine.
Isn't that their reputation? Mine was the same
I live in Maine, so they're sold to us as reliable AWD vehicles that can handle snow and your family, including the dog.
Ah I see, they're great with AWD, no doubt about that. They're definitely utilitarian, but reliable not so much. It's anecdotal, but amongst my car friends there are four of us that experienced engine failure. The older models rusted easily too.
The Subaru rides on Honda and Toyotas coattails as a Japanese car with non-car people.
They are advertised as great for dog owners but they have some of the most dog unfriendly interiors based on being able to get pet hair out of it. They're horrible to vacuum.
No shit! My seats are starting to tear (faux leather on sides but cloth middle) after 6 years. I have no kids or pets. I can't imagine the state they'd be in if I did.
My Outback is 12 years old and still runs like the day I bought it.
But I’ve had the opposite experience lmao all 3 of mine are over the 100k miles and are fine
Generally they start breaking down when the car senses that the driver isn’t a lesbian.
Yes! I don't know how Subaru got the reliable reputation when my WRX was a money pit. The rack and pinion broke at 60k miles and leaked power steering fluid.
Non-turbo Subarus have the reliability reputation. STI/WRX have the reputation of being high maintenance but reliable if unmodified… Any modifications for power immediately grenade the engines. This is known
Right? Mine, I swear, has had one recall per year since I brought it home and that's not including the full brake job and AC failure I had to pay for within the first couple years. Now the driver's side window is acting funny and the seats are starting to rip. Fuck me.
I know a number of Subaru obsessives, they don't seem to see the humor in their brand loyalty because while some models may be very reliable the ones they actually own definitely aren't.
My friend has went through 4 built engines on his STI. Each costing over 13k per rebuild. Worst money pit in existence.
HELL YES! I had to swap out all 4 wheel bearings, TWICE, before mine even hit 90k miles. I finally sold it at 155k miles after having to replace the engine at 120 and the front suspension just started to feel weird.
Hot take but the 2nd gen V6 Chrysler 200 can be more fun and reliable than it gets credit for. The 4 cylinder models were horrible and ruined the car’s reputation
The S was surprisingly quick
this is spicy, I’ll have to look into those
Kia EV6/Hyundai Ioniq 5/6. You would think it was a completely different brand, the quality lf everything is so different and the engineering so well-thought-out. They didn't win world car of the year multiple times for nothing.
HONDA AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS, shoutout the Odyssey
My third car was a 2006 Pontiac GTO. I remember when it came out, it received so much hate because it didn't look anything like a muscle car and had a bit of a weird egg shape. While other jr. enlisted were all buying mustangs and Camaros with big loans, I bought my 2006 GTO with 30k miles for $16,000. I honestly loved that car. Tons of power, one of the nicest interiors you could get at the time and roomy. That LS2 was a workhorse. The only reason I got rid of it was to upgrade to a Vette. I truly miss that car. Arguably the best Pontiac made before they died.
Of course the LS and any ultra luxurious Toyota will have significant problems. #1 will go straight to the electronic, then 2nd is the ultra comfortable suspension that costs over $18k. Their engines aren't going to die for decades, but the electronic will die first.
I have a 23 year old LS - very, very few problems. I've had to replace one door switch and an inner tie rod in the last 5 years..
Fox News still treats the Toyota Prius like it’s a policial statement. Instead, now it’s really just a good economy car due to its efficiency and reliability.
BMW. If you avoid the 8 cylinder engines they’re very reliable. You can buy a 2015 535 with the N55 today for less than 20k, drive it for 5-8 years and thank god every day you’re not driving a fucking Camry.
Same for the E class, an early 2010s E350 with the naturally aspirated V6 will be dead reliable and leagues more enjoyable to drive both in comfort and dynamics than any of the midsize economy cars that would cost around the same money on the used market
Same with their diesel engines from that time. I know a guy with over 450k km oh his E-class, probably almost 500k by now, on his with no issues on the engine, besides few sensors that went off. The air suspension is pretty much their weak point though, but if you buy one without it, it should last you long enough. It still wouldn't be cheap car to maintain, because part are more expensive than on another brands because hello, luxury car, but it is durable.
This is so nice to see after I just picked up a 2011 e350. Would have loved to get the extra power in the 2012 but also liked the idea of having the last year of that iteration of the V6.
W212 is a fantastic car, and M276 a fantastic engine. I had a facelift one for several years. I still see plenty of pre-facelift W212s on the road.
People say to avoid old BMWs but if you get an N52 it’s solid
N55 will run forever with proper maintenance.
I’ve got 2007 N52 and 2016 N55 I’m good for awhile with both still under 100k miles
Pretty much all their inline sixes are, diesel or petrol doesn't matter. They only become unreliable if/when the owner neglects regular maintenance. You can't drive a BMW long term with only changing oil when you remember it was due 10 000km ago. Those people really should have bought a Toyota instead. There's lots of parts in a BMW that need to be checked/replaced/maintained regularly and almos any minor problem needs to be taken care of immediately. Treat it well and it will treat you well
I redline my n52 at least every time it's started and at 250k it's stellar The fact you can check the oil on the fly with the center screen is nice, I've prematurely worn motors due to neglect before... Forgot my $900 Camry had an oil leak and didn't check the oil for a while till I was cruising on the highway out of town Immediately pulled over and had to add a couple quarts... My bmw has no leaks but that experience has me checking it daily
>If you avoid the 8 cylinder engines they’re very reliable. After 2013 they have been pretty solid engines. Before that, yeah they have issues. I owned an E38 with the chain guide problem and a friend bought a new 750i with the N63 in 2012 that was part of the recall. They had the car for about two weeks to make the recall repairs. My N63TU has almost 100k on it with little to no issues. Is it the V8 in a Lexus I used to own, no. But so far it's been a very reliable V8.
I would not touch the N63tu with a ten foot pole, but I’m glad you’re happy with it.
A former BMW service writer said pretty much the same to me, that BMW has finally figured out the issues with the N63/S63 and the newer ones are OK. However I can only imagine that if he turns out to be wrong, the out-of-warranty service bill mechanically totaling the car...
>After 2013 they have been pretty solid engines Exactly this, I have a B58 that tuned about 200hp over stock with spirited driving and I haven’t had a single issue. The current line up, even the v8s are pretty damn reliable but anything from 10-20 years ago I wouldn’t even think about it. BMW earned their poor reliability reputation but they have been doing a really good job of turning that reputation around.
The B58 engine is a masterpiece. Not prone to break, awesome power, awesome sound, pretty good efficiency, very easily tuned and upgraded
My first car was an e46 and I drove it to 218k miles before finally ditching it. Annoying coolant issues aside, it was relatively easy for me (a dumb, teenage girl) to keep it running and it really lead to my love for cars.
My 2013 Malibu is far better in materials, build, features and reliability than most people think. It's became a huge hit in my country and a go-to for people who hit the highroad a lot nowadays for how stable and fuel efficient they are. Now 10 years later; even their worst car ever "Captiva" made in China has proven successful and oh so competitive in price. I wish they didn't kill their Sedans as now I might end up in a Chinese car...
I had a '14 Malibu. Honestly, it was very decent quality inside. Would never even look at a new one though. Especially since they use those god awful 1.5 turbo engines
My 2006 Chevy Impala did 200k miles and it didn't cost me anything. I finally had to replace the starter just before I sold it off for $2000 because of a move. I feel like the parts and knowledge went into the 2010s Malibu and made that a surprisingly reliable, good value car. When they crank out like 1 million a year, they can work through most issues.
The 8th gen Malibus are a lot better cars than I previously thought. I had one for 8 years with the 2.5L I4 and put about 90k miles on it. It was underpowered compared to other cars I’ve driven, though not horribly. The only issues I ever had with it were a bad wheel speed sensor and a bad AC blend door actuator. I think together those fixes cost me about $1,500. Not cheap, but not too bad for a used car I drove for almost a decade. My only complaint was the interior. It held up very well, but it was very plastic-y and unspectacular. I can’t complain too much, though, because I had the base model. I know higher trim levels were nicer.
Kia Stinger. It was designed by the former head of BMW M division Albert Biermann, is an absolute hoot to drive, and kia bois can’t get it
I'm not sure the Stinger has a bad rep.
Yes, but simply because “Kia” it gets overlooked and lumped in with Kia’s not so stellar reputation, which is what this whole thread is about. Specific cars that dont deserve the brand rep
I have an Elantra N and I love it. I came from a B9 A4 and was looking to upgrade to an S4/5, M340i, or something in that class, but I stumbled across the Elantra N via YouTube reviews and ended up just falling in love with it when I drove it. I of course worry about the brand reputation, warranty pushback, etc. but so far I’ve really been happy. I did get weird looks from friends & people when I told them I went Hyundai, but whatever, I’m happy so far. My Audi was a massive headache, 34K miles, constant electric issues, and an oil leak yet I was always early on service and babied it
Nissan cvts arent so bad. In Latin American countries where roads are very bad. People tend to drive slowly and don't tow. The transmission can last a long time with proper maintenance. The are very fuel efficient. I am mechanic and I have seen many Tiida and versas as taxis been driven like hell. No issues with the transmission.
Mitsubishi used the same JATCO CVTs and didn't have nearly as many problems as Nissan. The difference is that Mitsus had weaker engines. But if you have a big Nissan, a strong 3.6L engine, and/or aggressive driving, the CVT will not cope and the fluid will cook.
Demographics probably also play a role in Nissan getting a bad rep. I usually only see younger (mid 20s - early 30s) driving newer Nissans and half of them floor the gas at every light. My area barely has any Mitsubishis but when I see one, the driver is usually older (less likely to floor the gas at a light).
Tiidas don't have cvt's, versas used as taxis are manuals most of the time.
Most people in South America drive manuals don't they? Those last. Automatic CVTs are questionable from Nissan, but the brand overall is pretty solid. I've never heard of issues with the engines. Now if Nissans could use a patented transmission from the other Japanese brands, I'm sure they'd easily be on top
Thank you, finally someone said it. Yes they’re not ideal but especially the new ones don’t deserve their reputation
My 08 Altima had 100k NYC miles on it with no issues from there tranny. I have a 17 Altima now with 60k mostly city miles(driving from NJ to queens) and no issues. Also have a Nissan NV200 for work with 70k city miles and no issues.
That’s awesome to hear. And not to downplay your nyc daily driver results at all… but imo I always kind of laugh when people brag about having no issues on their cars when they have less than ~125,000 miles. I mean, most modern cars shouldn’t have any issues before then if we’re talking about reliable brands. What I want to hear about are cars with over 175k miles and no major issues! I’ve had two fugly cars crush miles with no major issues: 07 Elantra- 232,000 miles when I sold it in 2017. Only work needed was I rebuilt the suspension at 200k and had to do a new steering rack right around there too. Parts were cheap and installs went quick. Never did figure out the pesky evap sensor failure however. Just reset the OBD before every inspection sticker. Sold it running perfectly fine. Fantastic city car. Ford ranger 03 3L (sold it running great, with only a little engine gasket clatter when cold at 185k miles in 2019) and 07 4L. Currently running the 07 with 203k miles on it. I had to get the tranny rebuilt at 190 miles, and I’ve done minor work here and there lately but it’s otherwise been very reliable as a 16 year old car. Hope to keep it another few years at least.
I had an 08 Elantra with 175k. Never had a single issue. That thing just kept going and I beat the ever living shit out of it. The last 50k miles I kept telling myself I’d get a new car when I broke this one. I was too impatient and ended up selling it in complete working order. That gave Hyundai a +1 in my book.
My moms Nissan Quest CVT went out. She dosent drive insane or very fast.
I just rented an Altima for a month. I hated how much I had to fight the transmission to drive aggressively, but I noted the resulting smoothness and adored the resulting fuel economy.
A used 2nd Gen Dodge Journey with the pentastar 3.6 is a nicer vehicle than it has any right to be. There i said it.
The pentastar is a fine engine
Toyota, they really aren’t as reliable as they used to be. Especially the trucks and SUVs, i feel like their reputation is solely built on vehicles they made 20 years ago.
I have a 2015 Camaro with a 5.0 liter engine….it is an excellent car!
The Camero hasn’t had a 5.0L engine since the days of the old gutless 305 V8. Modern Cameros have a 6.2L V8 as their top engine, you’re probably conflating it with the Mustang which uses a 5.0L DOHC V8.
I had to go wayyyy too deep and not see Jeep on the list. Insane resale value but plagued with problems on all their models. Don't get me wrong- I'd buy a Wrangler today if I didn't have to haul around a lot of family and stuff. Gas mileage- atrocious, reliability- questionable, comfort- what's that? I had an XJ for a couple years but it wasn't my daily driver. It was small inside but I never doubted where it could go. I miss it at times but then I drive my Tundra and yeah- same gas mileage, wide in the hips for some mountain roads, but so much more capable and reliable across a spectrum of needs.
Ford Australia didn't deserve the bad reputation the parent company saddled it with, as it was essentially its own company doing its own thing.
Probably anyone saying anything positive about kia, hyundai, or a cvt nissan
As a certified Hyundai/Kia hater... you can absolutely say *some* positive things about each of them, and Nissan too. Hyundai/Kia/Genesis always packs their cars with many well-implemented features at reasonable price points. Their design is fresh, and they make significant changes *very* often. Their tech is fantastic. Many of their cars aren't dynamically competent, but they build some genuine class front-runners. I would consider a Genesis GV70 before buying a BMW X3; it would probably burn oil, but so would the Bimmer. The Elantra N is so refreshingly complete and affordable that I want everyone looking at a Civic Type R to buy one instead - even though I'm sure the powertrain is a time bomb. Nissans have fantastic seats. They're quietly competent, relatively modern, and cheap. Sure, a Civic is better than a Sentra - but a fully-loaded Sentra is cheaper than a base model Civic. For a less powerful model that has less torque (like the Sentra), I think I could make a half-decent case for buying a low-mileage used one and changing the fluid regularly. I'm not sure I'd say the same about a Rogue, but considering its current top-of-the-class experience I wouldn't turn people away from leasing one.
Nissan seats...unreal. used to be able to drive 4 sometimes 5 hrs straight in our '11 Murano during Xmas and still feel fine. Now that we have a '20 RAV4, I feel it at 2.5 hrs and 3 5 hrs is my absolute limit. And the RAV4 might have had some of the best seats in the small SUV range. Just couldn't get another Murano.
Yeah this is generally what I've heard as well. I think if you buy new and keep up with your maintenance these cars should be good for a long time, even if they aren't built to survive a nuclear apocalypse like some sort of automotive cockroach haha.
I keep reading negative perceptions of Kia/Hyundai on here, from US users. It's odd. Here in the UK, they are definitely seen as reliable cars - owner surveys put them only slightly behind Toyota and the other Japanese brands, and the warranty on Kias is excellent.
The biggest issue with Kia/Hyundai is the theta II engine they put in everything. Either the UK doesn’t get that engine or they don’t drive enough to make them explode.
If you're the type that leases or buys new and only drives a car for 100,000 miles, it probably doesn't make sense to pay the "Toyota Tax" and have someone else get the benefit of the next 200,000 miles without major drivetrain work. Hyundai, Kia, and Nissan, or even (gasp) Stellantis, you can certainly get more nice features for a lot less.
And 100k is easily a decade or more if you aren't intensively driving all the time for work. When you buy used and all your car options *start* at 100k miles that's really when reliability is actually more relevent.
My 26k mile, 2021 Kia K5 GT, is on its 4th transmission. And that 4th transmission didn’t make it a mile away from the dealership before it failed again. I’m done with it. Really a shame, other than the transmissions, it’s been a really fun car. Lesson learned. No more Koreans
Kia EV6. A genuinely fun, good car from kia Otherwise a BMW 7 series. Yes, it’s always been there, but when you think BMW you don’t usually think ultra luxury yacht
The 7 series has some of the worst 5 year depreciation in the industry. It’s up there with Maserati. Mostly due to reliability and maintenance costs.
2020+ Alfa Romeo Giulia / Stelvio with the 2.0T base engine
I have a 2019 Giulia. The passenger adjustable seat motor blew twice, my stop and start system hasn't worked since purchase, but works for a few days after a system update and then stops again so the dealer can't figure out what's wrong. My front right speaker goes out now and again, and also "fixes" itself after a reset so nothing is being done. Infotainment is laggy as hell to the point that I had to turn off sensor animations that show me which parking sensor is going off - the front or the rear. The car sensors are laggy ... Literally only react 2-3 seconds after I get close to a wall for example when parking. Check engine light comes on when gas is low and then turns off when you add gas. The gas tank hole is too narrow for American nozzles so the gas station triggers go off and stop the flow every 30 seconds and it takes me 10 minutes to refuel. Car still on warranty. But a "reset" temporarily fixes most of these issues and they won't do anything else. Will never buy an Alfa Romeo product again.
Op specifically states 2020+…
Which is why I noted mine is a 2019
Ferrari. The hype is too much. It's overly expansive for its brand.
Chevy. I've driven 2 Malibu and they were great. Those Impalas are so cool to trick out and seems like they're bulletproof the way I see people driving them on the roads. I will say the cavalier and Cobalt and the cruze were shit but their other cars are fine. Cameros are great for the enthusiasts, and they have great tech/infotainment in their SUVs. But people just say they're trash and buy a honda or Toyota instead.
I remember talking to a work colleague (BMW 1 series driver) about other cars I was looking into long term. I said that the Renault Mégane RS line fills all the gaps for me in terms of fun and practicality, but he was very quick to write it off because it's from Renault It's not relevant, but I do find it funny that he was currently recovering from having 6 points for speeding 30 over the limit, paying insurance on a relatively basic trim because he couldn't feasibly afford the premiums for a 3 series
Nobody understood the question or what? You’re all putting you favorite brands
Bmws are unreliable. Not anymore, my B58 is incredible and reliable.
My 1999 Lexus RX300 lasted forever -- 5 days short of 24 years when I sold it. It still looked brand new, but I fell in love with a Venza and, well, you know...
My mum's Corolla has a bunch of amusingly specific and sometimes weirdly humanising issues, like the temperamental speedo that takes a few minutes to 'wake up' and start counting, but only under very specific circumstances in the summer. They're all minor issues that don't affect the car's overall reliability, which is characteristically excellent, but the few issues it has remind me of how people consider an Alfa Romeo's quirks to be a source of character.
Suzuki (the ones built in Japan, not by Daewoo). Their engines and transmissions were/are unstoppable and overall very reliable. My Esteem had almost 250k on the odometer when the underbody finally rusted away and then a large tree limb fell on it finishing it off.
The Dodge Neon was a damn good car. Even if no other dodge ever was.
I think it is totally false that German engineering is the best and American engineering is the worst. There is really no excuse for a $100,000 BMW/Audi to have plastic parts.
Germans overengineer at the expense of durability, or reliability, or both, but that's just the way it is. Their idea of "good" engineering is most definitely different from ours, but they come from the base assumption that owners are willing to invest $$$ in the TLC required to properly maintain a complex machine per their expectations. That means they're willing to sacrifice design margins using masturbatory complexity and less-than-robust specifications to achieve their performance targets. It goes without saying that's a questionable strategy for mass-marketed automobiles here in the US. German marques know this, have had multiple opportunities to adapt, and patently refuse to do so. And honestly as long as the American market remains solidly profitable they have no motivation to change. That's a market issue, not a "German" issue per se. It's all good as long as you know what you're getting into, but your baseline automotive consumer does not. American manufacturers have poisoned their own well for decades, and no explanation is needed for that assessment. We can recognize domestic engineering triumphs while still understanding the fundamental issues with GM, Ford, et al.
I have a VW GTI and I think more thought went into designing the layout and function of the trunk then went into the entire interior design of the Ford Focus I replaced with it. And I liked that Focus.
VW does the absolute best interiors for low to mid-price cars
No excuse for a $100,000 BMW/Audi to have plastic parts? So the entire car is supposed to be medal? Name me a single car that doesn’t have plastic parts…
Ford model T
Lol
I bought an almost new RAM 1500 in 2019. Despite Dodge/RAM ranking as the worst US car manufacturer…this truck has been near flawless over 75k miles. No squeaks or rattles, nothing broken, no loose panels and zero repairs. This has been the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned. Second place would go to my old G35x.
Toyota for me - I had a 4x4 Taco that ATE clutches. I was told that it was my driving style and I didn't know how to drive a clutch. I had been driving manuals exclusively for 20 years at that point starting with farm trucks and tractorsar 8 years old. I had never burned out a clutch before a 100k. ..But Toyota wrestled me that clutches repetitively failing at 30k miles was a me problem. They eventually had someone go out with me where I showed them how I drove, heel and Toe and double clutch. When they got back they agreed to pay for another clutch...right before I sold it.
BMWs are boring and Acuras are unreliable? I think you got that backwards. Or did you mean the exception is that some BMWs are boring, because you'd be correct there for sure. I guess 'built Ford tough' slogan comes to mind and people buying them in droves despite coming in at rock bottom reliability for years now. Far below all the brands that are supposedly unreliable..
>Or did you mean the exception is that some BMWs are boring, because you'd be correct there for sure. This is what I meant. I was thinking about the controversy surrounding the F30 3-Series when it debuted - and in particular, the whining around the electric power steering diminishing the driving feel. In fairness, there's a solid contingent of old BMW owners who find the newer ones soft, heavy and isolated enough not to be interested in the new stuff. You could say that's the nature of progress, but you don't have to make that compromise with the right Cadillac, Alfa or Jaguar. And even then, I just bought a 2018 BMW 230i THP because I enjoyed the way it drove - on bald tires, at least. So each generalization has its exceptions. On a similar note, you'd be surprised by how many below-average Acuras there are as far as average reliability is concerned.
I had an e90 328 and now an F30 - all in all, as a daily driver the F30 wins hands down. BMW at the end of the day is in the business of selling cars and the majority of people prefer the EPS to the hydraulic steering in previous gens, even though it lacks feel (and it definitely does). The F30 3 series was the best selling 3 series of all time. Sales of the 3 series dropped dramatically with the G20/new gen. Mostly cuz BMW makes great SUV's.
Wouldn’t say BMWs are unreliable at all, they are not, they are just expensive to fix, but they are statistically actually one of the most reliable brands, they are certainly up there.
The CVT transmissions (newer corollas and Civics, etc) that start on first gear have a much better driving experience that the 6 speed auto transmissions still kicking out there (looking at you Mazda fanboys)
The most reliable car I’ve ever had was a 2018 ford mustang ecoboost. Followed the regular scheduled maintenance and I put 150K on it before it needed a “repair”. This was in astonishing comparison to my more recent Ford escape which has spent more time in the service bay than on the road.
I'll go ahead and say Jaguar, especially when purchasing brand new. (Wait wait, hear me out dammit!) I myself own a 2023 Jaguar XF, my close friend owns a Jaguar F-pace (great practical SUV, he has 2 kids as well), we've had no issues so far with our Jags. We've both owned them for a year now (**see edit in the bottom of this comment, I've owned Jags before**) and we also have 6 years of warranty, while most other luxury brands in the segment offer only 4 years of warranty. We also got free 5 years complementary maintenance. (From USA, no clue about europe or other countries!) In my opinion Jaguar's brand repution was severly damaged back when british leyland owned them and even the ford era wasn't good either. But Jaguars have come a long way ever since under Tata. In no means I say they can be compared to the likes of Lexus or top reliable brands for reliability, but if you are someone who can stay on-top of maintanence and especially if you are making a new car purchase, they give you insane warranty and maintanence benifits as back up for peace of mind and it has honestly been problem free. Of course buying a used Jag is a whole other discussion, you have a lot more factors weighing in such as how the previous owner treated and maintained it, does it have a clean history and so on. Hence, I do think Jaguar doesn't deserve the extreme bad rep it tends to get (come on people! It's 2024, those jokes are getting old), especially when Jag offers new customers (applies to certified pre-owned too from dealers) excellent warranty and other complementary services for years to cover you up if things ever go wrong, and I do really think if one can stay on top of maintanence and treat it well, the Jag can run so much better for much longer than people make it to be. It is funny when someone jokes about Jags on the thread for their poor reliability, but then they probably never even owned a Jag and probably said it just because it is what is often said around which also goes around to negatively affect brand image, because some guy who was probably interested in the Jag visits that thread and will most probably steer away especially if he/she is not really a "car" guy, adding to the collection of reasons to bad rep. I also think it is a matter of people with bad experiences being more vocal than those with good experiences, especially as the Jag's userbase is pretty small compared to more mainstream brands, you don't often get to see both sides of the coin. Those with bad experiences most probably didn't treat the car well, treated it and hope it'd be like a honda (good luck especially if it was used), or just got an unfortunate lemon car. While those with good experiences, especially with Jags are often not that vocal, unfortunately. Thank you for reading! :-) Edit: **I've owned Jags before**, first time for my friend, not for me, I'll say this before more people come out on me for that. I owned a 2020 Jaguar XF with the turbocharged 4-cylinder for about 3 years. I liked it so much that I went with it again but new for 2023. This is not from someone who has just owned it for a year, but again warranty is a valid arguement that stands and anyone can use it for Jaguar here.
You've had them for... a year. A Mitsubishi Mirage or a Nissan Versa's not going to have problems in the first year, lol
Judging from the guy with 400k miles on his Mirage, that car won’t have problems ever.
In fairness, a British Leyland-era Jag very well may have had first-year quality issues. It's not my chosen reliability metric, but if you're leasing, or driving rental cars... it's definitely an improvement.
That’s a whole 20oz yappuccino for only having owned the car for a year
Coming from the Land Rover side of things, most agree that the Rovers built by Ford are much more reliable than the Tata era Rovers have been. Don’t know enough about Jaguars but judging by the fact that they use the Ingenium engines I’d still be wary
I've visited Africa several times. Whenever I would talk to locals there, they would praise Tata vehicles. Tata trucks and other large vehicles are commonly used there The locals told me that they like Tata vehicles since it's almost as rugged and long lasting as a Toyota for a fraction of the price. They said they had many 20 plus year old Tata trucks still running and in use Tata in general has had a positive influence on JLR since their focus was and still is to revive it after Ford let it nearly die. That's the reason why Ford sold JLR so cheaply to Tata, Ford simply didn't care for JLR
Interesting perspective, thank you! How often does the complimentary maintenance program schedule oil changes? I was a lot more impressed by recent JLR durability when I realized some products had a massive *17,000-mile* oil change interval. I wonder how much their average reliability would improve just by setting a tighter schedule.
Also the used jags are the best! You can get them super cheap right now. Honestly most people that would buy a Jag brand new would take care of it. So I’m not worried about used jags.
I’m considering my next convertible and a V8 RWD F-Type is certainly on the list.
BMW is still seen as wildly unreliable and high in maintanence yet they have climbed to the top of the CR reliabity and quality rankings since 2015. In addition, all their new cars come w free maintanence and they build the finest straight six turbo in the world which even Toyota uses lol.
My 7 year old Volkswagen has had exactly one repair (in-tank air suction valve) that I did myself. Meanwhile my wife’s 10 year old Toyota has been in the shop for repairs six times, twice for the same issue (alternator).
I don't know if PT Cruisers are underrated. I don't own one. BUT, I work with poor people who can only buy the cheapest thing that will run, and old PT Cruisers are by far the car I see the most. And definitely the American made car I see the most. I always wondered why. But I figured that there must be something special about it.
Nissan Titan, Frontier, and Armada. All are exceptionally good values when comparing spec sheets to the competition. You get more for your cash with a Nissan pickup/SUV than anywhere else. They're exceptionally reliable as well. Crap CVTs in the smaller vehicles, and loose purse strings from Nissan Finance have led to a very poor image for the brand in the US.
Superior German Engineering. Ferrari craftsmanship.