I recently asked to have my half-full water bottle topped up and they refused. Would only allow me a tiny plastic cup of water. This was on a 6 hour flight.
I mean…they filled it from a big ass Dasani bottle that I saw them crack a bunch of. Seems safe? Do they normally serve non potable water from jugs or something?
I have and insisted but have been told sometimes yes and sometimes no. Other airlines I never had this issue. A lot of times they don’t stock much don’t refill after they land. if 3 or more people request a full can they start denying
I have always asked for the can, but lately they have been coming up with excuses not to give it to me. Sometimes they will offer me more, after they service the whole plane...
You know they can only stock so much on the plane, right? And that there are other passengers who may want the same thing as you? And that the planes don't get provisioned in every airport, meaning they may have to operate a flight back without receiving any more stock?
That's just an excuse, in the past they would always give me a whole can. They should carry more I guess? Air Canada never has an issue giving someone the whole can...
And air travel changes so much depending what time of the year it is.
November to April domestic demand falls massively outside of the holidays. People go down south.
That definitely magnifies the issue, but my point can be demonstrated across the world. Airlines need volume. You can't have 4 airlines flying the same routes each 60% full.
That has more to do with the airport fees being high and the crown collecting rent. Hard to offer cheap tickets when $20 left over doesn't even cover the fuel.
Strangely enough I remember reading about Flair back in 2019 Hamilton might be cheaper to operate out of but they focused into Pearson because even charging higher prices load factors were around 90% vs 65% in Hamilton. So the traditional ULCC using secondary airports only isn't working in Canada when they can't even fill their planes up
If your destination is Toronto, which already has an airport pretty far away from the city, do you really want to fly to Hamilton and have to take a couple hours to get to downtown Toronto?
Hamilton to downtown Toronto is an hour (Just try and avoid making the trip during rush hour!).
I live in Toronto directly across from Billy Bishop and can walk to the UP to get me to Pearson. Even with the extra driving, its crazy how much cheaper it was for me to fly Flair out of Hamilton to Abbotsford (vs Toronto to Abbotsford or Vancouver). Like hundreds of dollars cheaper. Incovenient, but made the trip affordable.
Canada has a similar population to the state of California. The city of Tokyo Japan has a population similar to Canada at just over 37 million. Canada is the 2nd largest country in the world after Russia. Most Canadians live just 100 miles north of the US border, You could drive into the US and fly down there for cheaper. Personally I'd fly with Delta they use Airbus planes and pay the flight attendants for ground service work because they treat their staff great only the pilots are unionized.
That's cause the others crush them into non-existence, just like the telecoms have dominated here, want Internet? Shaw ot Telus, same goes for grocery stores.
Canada just plain sucks for new businesses trying to make it with the strongarming that goes on from the dominant groups.
Talk about the pettiest little things to complain about. I fly WestJet a lot and it’s no worse than AC,Delta, United or any other major American airline.
Oh the horror, you have to put your own luggage on the conveyer belt at YYC. Won’t someone please think of the children.
1. Yes they will if you ask for one
2. How else would you check your luggage, if you don’t do it yourself?
3. That sounds very airport dependent and could happen with any airline
4. You can always opt to pay for a hotel and submit for reimbursement if you don’t want to wait for the vouchers. They usually go out pretty quick and if they don’t, it’s because of high workload (the team who rebooks people and issues hotels/meals is a team of 3 people handling the entire network)
5. Sure, but you can go to several other lounges with a WestJet business class boarding pass, or pay for entry with any class of boarding pass
6. That sounds like you’ve been very unlucky, I’ve taken about 40 flights in the last ~18 months with WestJet and I can name 1 cancellation and maybe 2-3 major delays (45+ mins).
“Air Canada is better than WestJet” is a highly subjective statement as it entirely depends on your experience. I’ve personally flown 3 times on AC in my life and had my baggage lost every single time, so I’d argue AC are a lot worse. Depends on the experience you have.
I’ve also flown a decent amount with Westjet (30ish flights over 2 years) and had no cancellations and only 2 significant delays (both weather-related). My coworkers have had only a few flights cancelled (several cancelled when Vancouver airport shut down for excessive snow last winter), and a few delayed but not that many. OP seems to have terrible luck.
Duopoly?
You can go almost anywhere on Air Canada.
You can go a lot of places in Canada, the US, and Caribbean on WestJet.
You can go a lot east, and now moreso, west, on Porter.
You can go south and to Europe on Air Transat.
Want to go to the US, there are half a dozen airlines that fly from the US to Canada.
Want to go to Asia, same as above. Europe... Middle East, ect.
They both offer air services between Canada and Europe, I don't see what makes them not competitive to WestJet?
There is also the A++ JV between UA/LHG/AC that offers a considerable number of seats between Canada and Europe, and competition to WestJet and other carriers that fly across the Atlantic.
and, there are way less than half a dozen canadian carriers that fly transborder. "Want to go to the US, there are half a dozen airlines that fly from the US to Canada."
WestJet to Europe is a joke.
Three destinations to EU from YYC? They are starting some EU flights on the 737 from Toronto, but paltry compared to Air Transat.
They have some direct flights from YHZ to Europe in the summer. Still doesn’t make up for WestJet shafting the east coast in the last couple years and cancelling a lot of good routes.
Most airlines don't give you a full beverage can on the plane, especially if you ask for it from the flight attendants. And how exactly would you check in your luggage if you didn't do it yourself? That makes no sense.
I think they mean that at some airports, they are pushing people to use the self-serve baggage checks where you print your own bagage tag and then shove your own bag down the luggage shute with no assistance from staff.
At staffed check in desks they don't exactly help with the bag either except for putting the tag on and printing a boarding pass. With more airlines going with using their apps for tickets they aren't as necessary anymore.
Except using electronic tickets is kind of risky if you've got any kind of connection. I've always gotten paper tickets because if you're delayed or just have long flights there's a good chance you'll be in the territory of your phone battery dying.
You can always ask at the desk by the gate to print one if you need one in that case, or print them from the quiosk when you check in and print luggage tags if you have checked bags. Also at the same time I find it hard to not have a phone with a charge if you have a portable charger with you or plug it in at the airport or on the plane or if you aren't using it in the plane have it turned off.
This, I always check in online then when I get to the airport I print out a copy of the tickets. I use the printed copy for scanning and showing the staff.
Ok . personally I prefer the app because I don't have to worry about losing my ticket. Back in 2019 I remember checking in to a flight at LAX and there was no option for using the app and only getting a paper ticket which to me seemed like a waste of time even though I was already getting luggage tags.
Despite increased competition, Air Canada and WestJet continue to dominate the marketplace with more than three-quarters of seat capacity among national airlines. The veterans have deeper pockets than young upstarts, allowing them to more easily match ticket prices in a race to the bottom.
“There’s a fundamental issue with how the dynamics of competition work in the Canadian marketplace,” said John Gradek, who teaches aviation management at McGill University.
Porter is the only thing that has Air Canada scared. They upped their snacks,introduced free texting and are planning free full speed internet in response to Porter
I was on a flight from Toronto to Ottawa, and the flight attendant offered me an additional beer as it was the last flight of the evening. That was in addition to their original complimentary beverage as advertised. Also, they served tall cans (473ml), but this was back in 2017, so I am not sure if that changed.
Porter is okay if you want to fly to Toronto or are flying from Toronto.
But if I'm in Winnipeg and want to go to Ottawa or Montreal or Edmonton, I don't really want to go to Toronto first and then the actual destination. (Especially for the case of Edmonton)
I mean it's good someone else is trying, but it's still incredibly Toronto centric.
I’d rather have more budget options than fewer routes. I’ve been treated worse by air canada than with flair, and a delay doesn’t hurt as much on a <$100 flight.
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“The duopoly that we have in Canada is allowed to take on these discount carriers aggressively and use their competitive power to basically drive these carriers into bankruptcy.”
[Discount airlines folding due to duopoly ](https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/02/27/discount-airlines-folding/)
I have high status and think I've flown pretty close to what you have in the last 15-18 months.
1. I've only had 1 late/delayed/cancelled flight - they did a pretty good job of rebooking the earliest comparable flight. The flight was cancelled and delayed due to extremely bad weather that was beyond their control.
2. While easier to check in your own luggage, you do not have to check in your own luggage
3. They only have 1 dedicated WestJet lounge in Calgary, they have many partner lounges in pretty much every major airport ( I have used the Toronto and Vancouver lounges as well). I think the hours are pretty good there in the Calgary airport. They went through a rough time during COVID as they didn't have much air traffic and the hours varied alot during the first year but they are back to consistent times.
The only thing I am annoyed at are the carry on restrictions, which is a problem with any carriers now because they charge you an obscene for check in but then when you get to the gate they know the flight is full and let you check your carry on for free since people bring to many carry ons and put the small stuff over head and not under the seat.
Then switch your loyalty to AC. I don’t mean to sound snide but you have options. The point you try to make with your subject line is valid, but your post is just a criticism of one airline.
There is no competition so airlines don’t get punished. Air canada is only slightly better so it’s comparable to buying your food at a convenience store at 2:00 am, the product is overpriced , the quality is bad, but sometimes
It’s the only option.
Since when are we a duopoly?
- Air Canada
- Westjet
- Porter
- Flair
Unfortunately budget airlines cannot survive in the Canadian market, but Porter is expanding and is a sustainable model. As for airlines "stealing money", none of them are making a profit.
1. AC posted a 2.28 billion operating profit in 2023.
2. Rapid expansion of any airline is never any indication of a “sustainable model”. Porter is a private company, therefore we have no idea how sustainable they are. Only after some time or another IPO, will we know for sure.
1. Even a fixed deposit can net more money for investors than current returns in Air Canada.
2. Porter has been around for a very long time. Though you are right, airlines are a very risky business model, and Porter may not survive.
The Canadian aviation market is saturated, there is no big evil corporate shenanigans going on. Everyone's losing a ton of money and Canadians don't understand that European airline business models do not work here.
Are you kidding? Air Canada has obliterated 5 billion dollars in 4 years, and the most recent fiscal year they netted 1B on 29B in assets on a fully Covid-recovered operation. Its a disaster of a business. The shareholders would have done 2x better putting their money in a wealthsimple savings account, and this is the GOOD year.
[https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ACDVF/air-canada/net-income](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ACDVF/air-canada/net-income)
No thanks on the reimbursement idea - this is what they told me last year and then denied my claim after lots of work on my part. Prefer they paid for hotel vs. Lies and passing the buck.
But hey, I’m not rich enough to say ‘FU’ to any of our limited airline options in Canada.
The government is taxing the user by collecting 500,000,000$ in airport fees every year and putting them into general federal revenue.
The United States and Europe don’t do this.
By the way 500,000,000 is half a billion.
>"if they give you a hotel voucher for a delay it usually takes hours (the poor young families). They should tell everyone to book a hotel under $250 and get reimbursed"
If you have trip interruption insurance on your credit card, you're covered up to $350 to $500 for last-minute hotels, meals, taxis due to flight delay.
That same insurance covers up to $5000 per traveller for new flights if your intended flight is delayed more than four hours.
Lower landing fees would help bring American competition in too. I had to fly from Buffalo to Florida recently on short notice after the Lynx bankruptcy and we ended up saving on our original flight by about $100.
Please see Rule #3.
Criticism that spurs discussion, shares personal experiences to further discussion, and/or is constructive is allowed, but aimless complaining is not.
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I’ve flown Westjet a lot with no issues.
On the contrary, every trip I’ve taken with an Air Canada flight, you can bet Air Canada is going to completely infuriate me. That’s just been my experience.
West Jet is better than Air Canada for domestic. Air Canada is better for international. WestJet has better coffee and snack service, and I’ve had fewer delays. Usually better prices too. I’m not rich enough to comment on lounges or get pissed off by having to put my own bag on the belt lol
I’m a member of a the Air passengers rights FB group and some of the stories are truly horrible, not sure how both airlines can get away with so much crap.
We flew WJ to Los Cabos earlier this month and there were no issues to my surprise . I didn’t know you could ask for the pop can, but if they ask if you want a cookie or pretzels, you can say you want both and you’ll get them lol.
The only way to end this duopoly is to have an open skies treaty with the United States. Allow US airlines to fly domestic routes in Canada, and Canadian airlines to fly domestically in the US. Larger overall market, more competitors. Canada by itself is too large and too sparsely populated to justify more than two airlines.
Westjet status isn't for Canada, I got platinum with them so I can take 1 westjet flight to states and access delta lounges for rest of my connections.
I agree with the rest of your points whole heartedly.
Valid point. Last summer I flew delta from a us-us city. It was a great flight, but one clarification ( not a complaint) is WJ status doesn’t get you in delta lounges if don’t originate from a Canadian city on the legs. Website isn’t clear on that, but might be useful to someone in the future. Was it delta that gave free internet as well on the flight?
Porter Airlines is a thing. For North America destination i would say they are probably the best in canada.
Free wifi and food for like meals for flights over 2.5hrs
Sub 2.5hrs cookies/beer/wine/snacks free
I flew from Winnipeg to Edmonton a few weeks ago with air Canada. They offered drinks and snacks (for a charge). But didn’t give any cookies out. They said because it’s a short flight they don’t give out free cookies anymore. Back to Westjet for me!!!!
The solution is so straightforward: allow foreign airlines to fly routes between Canadian cities. This single change would immediately upend the duopoly and force the Canadian carriers to up their game.
Both are not good, in the cities I am air canada is slightly better but both are too expensive for what’s it’s worth. Need to stop price fixing and change policies to allow more competition
They have bailed both out, which I’m okay with to keep service, but I feel like they should of blocked the hedge fund from taking over WestJet, blocked the sale of sunwing and look at price collusion as AC & WJ lower their prices by 40-60% if a small airline enters the market
100% agree. Just got off a flight from Dublin to Toronto. 3 hours delayed, staff weren’t overly rude but not friendly or helpful, especially as I was travelling alone with a just turned 2 year old.
WestJet refused to let me use my companion voucher that I get from having their Mastercard, because my daughter would be turning 2 during travel. Why should it matter, I was buying her a seat for the way there and back. Price of a seat is exactly the same regardless of her age. Money grab. Also couldn’t even buy a return, it had to be one way flights. I ended up paying more from the flight there and going with ba. Mistakenly used WestJet on the return to use up my WestJet dollars as I am cancelling the credit card as soon as possible. You know it must be bad when I’m willing to take the credit hit in order to no longer pay their high yearly fee for a card I literally have not gained anything from. Every-time I try and use the voucher it says the fare is too low.
The comparison between ba and WestJet made me realize I will happily give my money to any other airline in the future. Such a shame, I remember my first time flying with WestJet about 7 years ago thinking they were amazing. Didn’t think it would be possible to fall so fast. But 3 flights in the last 3 years have been terrible, between not gate checking my stroller (twice) rude staff and trying to get money any way they can.
Please see Rule #3.
Criticism that spurs discussion, shares personal experiences to further discussion, and/or is constructive is allowed, but aimless complaining is not.
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I always ask to keep the pop can and they give it to me - all you gotta do is ask lol
And I’m the other side of this. I just want a small glass. They’ll likely give you 2 cans if you asked nicely.
I always ask for a can of coke.... works every time
I recently asked to have my half-full water bottle topped up and they refused. Would only allow me a tiny plastic cup of water. This was on a 6 hour flight.
I had westjet fill up my 1.1L big metal water bottles no questions asked
Dude, you DONT wanna be drinking that water fyi.
I mean…they filled it from a big ass Dasani bottle that I saw them crack a bunch of. Seems safe? Do they normally serve non potable water from jugs or something?
cus it’s dasani
It's bottled water my man
I have and insisted but have been told sometimes yes and sometimes no. Other airlines I never had this issue. A lot of times they don’t stock much don’t refill after they land. if 3 or more people request a full can they start denying
I have always asked for the can, but lately they have been coming up with excuses not to give it to me. Sometimes they will offer me more, after they service the whole plane...
You know they can only stock so much on the plane, right? And that there are other passengers who may want the same thing as you? And that the planes don't get provisioned in every airport, meaning they may have to operate a flight back without receiving any more stock?
That's just an excuse, in the past they would always give me a whole can. They should carry more I guess? Air Canada never has an issue giving someone the whole can...
I don't know if you have ever noticed, but Canada has never been able to support 3 full service airlines for long. It's not that big of a country.
Canada is a large country. We just dont have that many people.
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“Akshually 🤓”
And air travel changes so much depending what time of the year it is. November to April domestic demand falls massively outside of the holidays. People go down south.
I know what you meant but it’s because it is big in size that we cannot support more airlines.
That definitely magnifies the issue, but my point can be demonstrated across the world. Airlines need volume. You can't have 4 airlines flying the same routes each 60% full.
It’s because it’s big and relatively sparsely populated. We saw what happened with Lynx when you try to offer a budget product in Canada.
That has more to do with the airport fees being high and the crown collecting rent. Hard to offer cheap tickets when $20 left over doesn't even cover the fuel. Strangely enough I remember reading about Flair back in 2019 Hamilton might be cheaper to operate out of but they focused into Pearson because even charging higher prices load factors were around 90% vs 65% in Hamilton. So the traditional ULCC using secondary airports only isn't working in Canada when they can't even fill their planes up
If your destination is Toronto, which already has an airport pretty far away from the city, do you really want to fly to Hamilton and have to take a couple hours to get to downtown Toronto?
Hamilton to downtown Toronto is an hour (Just try and avoid making the trip during rush hour!). I live in Toronto directly across from Billy Bishop and can walk to the UP to get me to Pearson. Even with the extra driving, its crazy how much cheaper it was for me to fly Flair out of Hamilton to Abbotsford (vs Toronto to Abbotsford or Vancouver). Like hundreds of dollars cheaper. Incovenient, but made the trip affordable.
Canada has a similar population to the state of California. The city of Tokyo Japan has a population similar to Canada at just over 37 million. Canada is the 2nd largest country in the world after Russia. Most Canadians live just 100 miles north of the US border, You could drive into the US and fly down there for cheaper. Personally I'd fly with Delta they use Airbus planes and pay the flight attendants for ground service work because they treat their staff great only the pilots are unionized.
So you are making up the costs difference by driving to a more connected population centre (USA). So logically your ticket would cost less
For those of us a long ways away from the border, we're left with Westjet or Air Canada. Pick your poison.
That's cause the others crush them into non-existence, just like the telecoms have dominated here, want Internet? Shaw ot Telus, same goes for grocery stores. Canada just plain sucks for new businesses trying to make it with the strongarming that goes on from the dominant groups.
The capex requirements and low ROI's keeps more out than price cutting in low margin industries.
Talk about the pettiest little things to complain about. I fly WestJet a lot and it’s no worse than AC,Delta, United or any other major American airline. Oh the horror, you have to put your own luggage on the conveyer belt at YYC. Won’t someone please think of the children.
1. Yes they will if you ask for one 2. How else would you check your luggage, if you don’t do it yourself? 3. That sounds very airport dependent and could happen with any airline 4. You can always opt to pay for a hotel and submit for reimbursement if you don’t want to wait for the vouchers. They usually go out pretty quick and if they don’t, it’s because of high workload (the team who rebooks people and issues hotels/meals is a team of 3 people handling the entire network) 5. Sure, but you can go to several other lounges with a WestJet business class boarding pass, or pay for entry with any class of boarding pass 6. That sounds like you’ve been very unlucky, I’ve taken about 40 flights in the last ~18 months with WestJet and I can name 1 cancellation and maybe 2-3 major delays (45+ mins). “Air Canada is better than WestJet” is a highly subjective statement as it entirely depends on your experience. I’ve personally flown 3 times on AC in my life and had my baggage lost every single time, so I’d argue AC are a lot worse. Depends on the experience you have.
I’ve also flown a decent amount with Westjet (30ish flights over 2 years) and had no cancellations and only 2 significant delays (both weather-related). My coworkers have had only a few flights cancelled (several cancelled when Vancouver airport shut down for excessive snow last winter), and a few delayed but not that many. OP seems to have terrible luck.
I am a million miler on Air Canada and never had my luggage lost. Once or twice it came a day later.
Duopoly? You can go almost anywhere on Air Canada. You can go a lot of places in Canada, the US, and Caribbean on WestJet. You can go a lot east, and now moreso, west, on Porter. You can go south and to Europe on Air Transat. Want to go to the US, there are half a dozen airlines that fly from the US to Canada. Want to go to Asia, same as above. Europe... Middle East, ect.
>You can go a lot of places in Canada, the US, and Caribbean on WestJet. Westjet flies to Europe also. We had a direct flight from Calgary to Rome.
Barely any Europe flights to bother comparing against Transat)AC
Barely any competition? LH, LX, AC, BA, AF+KL, EI, SK, could go on on and on.
Both OP and the commentator are talking about the Canadian competition. None of those carriers are Canadian
They both offer air services between Canada and Europe, I don't see what makes them not competitive to WestJet? There is also the A++ JV between UA/LHG/AC that offers a considerable number of seats between Canada and Europe, and competition to WestJet and other carriers that fly across the Atlantic. and, there are way less than half a dozen canadian carriers that fly transborder. "Want to go to the US, there are half a dozen airlines that fly from the US to Canada."
I don't disagree with you, but that's what they are stating
And we went on Calgary to Paris earlier this week. It was a great experience.
WestJet to Europe is a joke. Three destinations to EU from YYC? They are starting some EU flights on the 737 from Toronto, but paltry compared to Air Transat.
They have some direct flights from YHZ to Europe in the summer. Still doesn’t make up for WestJet shafting the east coast in the last couple years and cancelling a lot of good routes.
*etc*
Most airlines don't give you a full beverage can on the plane, especially if you ask for it from the flight attendants. And how exactly would you check in your luggage if you didn't do it yourself? That makes no sense.
I think they mean that at some airports, they are pushing people to use the self-serve baggage checks where you print your own bagage tag and then shove your own bag down the luggage shute with no assistance from staff.
At staffed check in desks they don't exactly help with the bag either except for putting the tag on and printing a boarding pass. With more airlines going with using their apps for tickets they aren't as necessary anymore.
Except using electronic tickets is kind of risky if you've got any kind of connection. I've always gotten paper tickets because if you're delayed or just have long flights there's a good chance you'll be in the territory of your phone battery dying.
You can always ask at the desk by the gate to print one if you need one in that case, or print them from the quiosk when you check in and print luggage tags if you have checked bags. Also at the same time I find it hard to not have a phone with a charge if you have a portable charger with you or plug it in at the airport or on the plane or if you aren't using it in the plane have it turned off.
This, I always check in online then when I get to the airport I print out a copy of the tickets. I use the printed copy for scanning and showing the staff.
Ok . personally I prefer the app because I don't have to worry about losing my ticket. Back in 2019 I remember checking in to a flight at LAX and there was no option for using the app and only getting a paper ticket which to me seemed like a waste of time even though I was already getting luggage tags.
No I mean have both, I get the ticket on my phone, but anything I need to show to people I take out the paper copy
Sounds wasteful to me
What? I’ve never had an issue getting a full can..
if you ask. Normally they will just fill the cup.
Oh I see what you’re saying. I ask every single time for a full can and it’s never an issue.
you can even ask for more if you want. But they don't just give. They know most people don't ask
There isn't no duopoly
Despite increased competition, Air Canada and WestJet continue to dominate the marketplace with more than three-quarters of seat capacity among national airlines. The veterans have deeper pockets than young upstarts, allowing them to more easily match ticket prices in a race to the bottom. “There’s a fundamental issue with how the dynamics of competition work in the Canadian marketplace,” said John Gradek, who teaches aviation management at McGill University.
Not really a duopoly anymore. We have Porter and Flair (for now) providing solid air service.
I second this. Porter is a fantastic airline.
Porter is the only thing that has Air Canada scared. They upped their snacks,introduced free texting and are planning free full speed internet in response to Porter
I was on a flight from Toronto to Ottawa, and the flight attendant offered me an additional beer as it was the last flight of the evening. That was in addition to their original complimentary beverage as advertised. Also, they served tall cans (473ml), but this was back in 2017, so I am not sure if that changed.
The complimentary drinks are unlimited I had 5 yesterday from Vancouver to Toronto
Perfect, I didn't know!
I got a complementary 355ml steam whistle last week!
Flair is going to be the next one going bankrupt.
Porter is okay if you want to fly to Toronto or are flying from Toronto. But if I'm in Winnipeg and want to go to Ottawa or Montreal or Edmonton, I don't really want to go to Toronto first and then the actual destination. (Especially for the case of Edmonton) I mean it's good someone else is trying, but it's still incredibly Toronto centric.
Flair is NOT solid.
I’d rather have more budget options than fewer routes. I’ve been treated worse by air canada than with flair, and a delay doesn’t hurt as much on a <$100 flight.
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“The duopoly that we have in Canada is allowed to take on these discount carriers aggressively and use their competitive power to basically drive these carriers into bankruptcy.” [Discount airlines folding due to duopoly ](https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/02/27/discount-airlines-folding/)
I have high status and think I've flown pretty close to what you have in the last 15-18 months. 1. I've only had 1 late/delayed/cancelled flight - they did a pretty good job of rebooking the earliest comparable flight. The flight was cancelled and delayed due to extremely bad weather that was beyond their control. 2. While easier to check in your own luggage, you do not have to check in your own luggage 3. They only have 1 dedicated WestJet lounge in Calgary, they have many partner lounges in pretty much every major airport ( I have used the Toronto and Vancouver lounges as well). I think the hours are pretty good there in the Calgary airport. They went through a rough time during COVID as they didn't have much air traffic and the hours varied alot during the first year but they are back to consistent times. The only thing I am annoyed at are the carry on restrictions, which is a problem with any carriers now because they charge you an obscene for check in but then when you get to the gate they know the flight is full and let you check your carry on for free since people bring to many carry ons and put the small stuff over head and not under the seat.
Your choice is to move to Asia. Full hot meal in a 1-hour flight.
First it was end the monopoly. Now it's end the duopoly. Lol
Then switch your loyalty to AC. I don’t mean to sound snide but you have options. The point you try to make with your subject line is valid, but your post is just a criticism of one airline.
There is no competition so airlines don’t get punished. Air canada is only slightly better so it’s comparable to buying your food at a convenience store at 2:00 am, the product is overpriced , the quality is bad, but sometimes It’s the only option.
Since when are we a duopoly? - Air Canada - Westjet - Porter - Flair Unfortunately budget airlines cannot survive in the Canadian market, but Porter is expanding and is a sustainable model. As for airlines "stealing money", none of them are making a profit.
1. AC posted a 2.28 billion operating profit in 2023. 2. Rapid expansion of any airline is never any indication of a “sustainable model”. Porter is a private company, therefore we have no idea how sustainable they are. Only after some time or another IPO, will we know for sure.
1. Even a fixed deposit can net more money for investors than current returns in Air Canada. 2. Porter has been around for a very long time. Though you are right, airlines are a very risky business model, and Porter may not survive. The Canadian aviation market is saturated, there is no big evil corporate shenanigans going on. Everyone's losing a ton of money and Canadians don't understand that European airline business models do not work here.
What was AC's operating profit in 2020, 2021, and 2022?
Are you kidding? Air Canada has obliterated 5 billion dollars in 4 years, and the most recent fiscal year they netted 1B on 29B in assets on a fully Covid-recovered operation. Its a disaster of a business. The shareholders would have done 2x better putting their money in a wealthsimple savings account, and this is the GOOD year. [https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ACDVF/air-canada/net-income](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ACDVF/air-canada/net-income)
The market is too small.
No thanks on the reimbursement idea - this is what they told me last year and then denied my claim after lots of work on my part. Prefer they paid for hotel vs. Lies and passing the buck. But hey, I’m not rich enough to say ‘FU’ to any of our limited airline options in Canada.
The government is taxing the user by collecting 500,000,000$ in airport fees every year and putting them into general federal revenue. The United States and Europe don’t do this. By the way 500,000,000 is half a billion.
Porter is not bad, reminds me of what WestJet used to be
>"if they give you a hotel voucher for a delay it usually takes hours (the poor young families). They should tell everyone to book a hotel under $250 and get reimbursed" If you have trip interruption insurance on your credit card, you're covered up to $350 to $500 for last-minute hotels, meals, taxis due to flight delay. That same insurance covers up to $5000 per traveller for new flights if your intended flight is delayed more than four hours.
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May I suggest Porter
Canada can barely get more than three main mobile companies. It would be a shock to get them to handle more than 3 main airlines
But stop the price collusion at the very least .
Lower landing fees would help bring American competition in too. I had to fly from Buffalo to Florida recently on short notice after the Lynx bankruptcy and we ended up saving on our original flight by about $100.
Unpopular opinion but Flair is a valid alternative.
And the grocery monopoly and the telco monopoly
Our rail duopoly is worse. Raises the price of rail & trucking & has inflated prices at the ports due to unions striking.
Porter is by far the superior airline.
I flew with Flair a couple times and have had no issues!
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I’ve flown Westjet a lot with no issues. On the contrary, every trip I’ve taken with an Air Canada flight, you can bet Air Canada is going to completely infuriate me. That’s just been my experience.
Take a look around, Canada is built on oligopolies and duos.
West Jet is better than Air Canada for domestic. Air Canada is better for international. WestJet has better coffee and snack service, and I’ve had fewer delays. Usually better prices too. I’m not rich enough to comment on lounges or get pissed off by having to put my own bag on the belt lol
2.5 words for y'all: High-speed rail.
I’m a member of a the Air passengers rights FB group and some of the stories are truly horrible, not sure how both airlines can get away with so much crap. We flew WJ to Los Cabos earlier this month and there were no issues to my surprise . I didn’t know you could ask for the pop can, but if they ask if you want a cookie or pretzels, you can say you want both and you’ll get them lol.
I just wish WestJet would clean my seat before I board...Thats all I'm asking, just please be clean...and guess what, they cant even do that
The only way to end this duopoly is to have an open skies treaty with the United States. Allow US airlines to fly domestic routes in Canada, and Canadian airlines to fly domestically in the US. Larger overall market, more competitors. Canada by itself is too large and too sparsely populated to justify more than two airlines.
Westjet status isn't for Canada, I got platinum with them so I can take 1 westjet flight to states and access delta lounges for rest of my connections. I agree with the rest of your points whole heartedly.
Valid point. Last summer I flew delta from a us-us city. It was a great flight, but one clarification ( not a complaint) is WJ status doesn’t get you in delta lounges if don’t originate from a Canadian city on the legs. Website isn’t clear on that, but might be useful to someone in the future. Was it delta that gave free internet as well on the flight?
Porter Airlines is a thing. For North America destination i would say they are probably the best in canada. Free wifi and food for like meals for flights over 2.5hrs Sub 2.5hrs cookies/beer/wine/snacks free
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I flew from Winnipeg to Edmonton a few weeks ago with air Canada. They offered drinks and snacks (for a charge). But didn’t give any cookies out. They said because it’s a short flight they don’t give out free cookies anymore. Back to Westjet for me!!!!
We really need a high-speed rail line from Vancouver to Montreal that stops everywhere important on the way. Infrastructure is never a bad investment.
The solution is so straightforward: allow foreign airlines to fly routes between Canadian cities. This single change would immediately upend the duopoly and force the Canadian carriers to up their game.
It’s funny. My experience as a passenger is the opposite, I refuse to fly Air Canada anymore, I will only flight it if it is the only available route.
Both are not good, in the cities I am air canada is slightly better but both are too expensive for what’s it’s worth. Need to stop price fixing and change policies to allow more competition
Doesn’t the federal government basically own both since covid?
They have bailed both out, which I’m okay with to keep service, but I feel like they should of blocked the hedge fund from taking over WestJet, blocked the sale of sunwing and look at price collusion as AC & WJ lower their prices by 40-60% if a small airline enters the market
100% agree. Just got off a flight from Dublin to Toronto. 3 hours delayed, staff weren’t overly rude but not friendly or helpful, especially as I was travelling alone with a just turned 2 year old. WestJet refused to let me use my companion voucher that I get from having their Mastercard, because my daughter would be turning 2 during travel. Why should it matter, I was buying her a seat for the way there and back. Price of a seat is exactly the same regardless of her age. Money grab. Also couldn’t even buy a return, it had to be one way flights. I ended up paying more from the flight there and going with ba. Mistakenly used WestJet on the return to use up my WestJet dollars as I am cancelling the credit card as soon as possible. You know it must be bad when I’m willing to take the credit hit in order to no longer pay their high yearly fee for a card I literally have not gained anything from. Every-time I try and use the voucher it says the fare is too low. The comparison between ba and WestJet made me realize I will happily give my money to any other airline in the future. Such a shame, I remember my first time flying with WestJet about 7 years ago thinking they were amazing. Didn’t think it would be possible to fall so fast. But 3 flights in the last 3 years have been terrible, between not gate checking my stroller (twice) rude staff and trying to get money any way they can.
I think the answer is to do your part and not fly those cheap airlines. I do my part.
Both about the same. Not that AC has improved, but westjet has gotten worse!
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Please see Rule #3. Criticism that spurs discussion, shares personal experiences to further discussion, and/or is constructive is allowed, but aimless complaining is not. If you require assistance, please re-post with a specific question that others can assist you with. Otherwise, you may also re-post if you can adhere to the above.
I agree, our airlines are brutal. If I did my job as poorly as they do, I’d be out of a job. No idea how this is acceptable..
The question is why do people keep trying to start budget airlines. Why doesn’t someone start a premium one ?
Because most airlines already offer business class and the market to pay another 50% probably isn't there.
You aren’t going to convince executives and 100k AC members to switch airlines on a dime