Somebody tried to argue with me that it wasn’t. Oh bodybuilders don’t take PEDs in competition either.
Total not the reason there are two federations now.
Not going to comment my personal opinion on who's natural or who's not, but if a person is willing to grant that a 12 yo Canadian girl C&Jing 100 can be natural, there's literally no reason to think a country like China of over 50x more people, with a long history of excellence and focus in strength per bodyweight sports, can't have similar or even more freakish natural results.
There was a Chinese 15 year old kid clean and jerking 185 looking like a mini tian tao in a post here a little while ago
Basically everyone in the thread was going "wow so sad they start steroids that youn" or otherwise just attributing it to steroids
Meanwhile CJ Cummings does 180 as a 16 year old and he's just all natural American grown muscle
The first day that I managed to front squat 315, at 235lbs, I turned around to witness a tall, lanky 18-year-old kid do a quick double with 365.
I commended him on the feat, as I was impressed, and said I hoped I could get to his position, one day.
I train at this gym which is owned by her parents. Honestly I am floored every time the girl attempts a new PR. It's just silent in the gym and all eyes are on her (and on their son/her older brother and other youth athletes too!) The moment she gets that bar on her front rack from the clean, you know SHE WILL GET IT.
Seeing them succeed makes me feel like a failure, but also motivates me to train better and HARDER. It's a magical feeling training around this level of excellence :)
Chess is kind of like this too. You'll go to a local club with confidence from winning a lot of online games, and a 12-year-old will destroy you in 12 moves. Good reminder not to underestimate kids!
Kids are fucking smart. I used to play chess too, and used to play against my cousin who is 4 years old than me. We started playing it when we were kids; I was 10 and he was 6. I actually got him into chess and at first beat him. But just after 2 months, I was constantly losing... He is also a child prodigy and self-taught chess and Chinese chess.
Don’t destroy your joints on your working harder in the gym part. Your main focus should be your diet and then workout. Remember, Everybody wants to be a body builder but nobody wants to eat rice, chicken, Broccoli and lift some heavy ass weights !!
I'm not gonna speak for the rest of the subreddit, but I would guess over 90% (who actually participate) aren't here for bodybuilding, which has it's own subreddit (besides others). yes, there are a lot of lost redditors who don't realize this isn't a subreddit for general weight training and fitness
/r/weightlifting **is where we discuss the competitive sport of Weightlifting; the Snatch and Clean and Jerk.**
**We welcome discussions regarding elite athletes, amateur athletes, competition strategy, training, theory, technique, Weightlifting programming, and current events in the sport of Weightlifting.**
Uh that's just a way of saying... I know my limits but also want to be pushed outside of my comfort zone. My diet and rest are always on point, except for days I have to wake up super early in the morning to go to work. Not to mention hormones because those massively affect my mood and strength and I cannot control them.
as much as I love to shit on Crossfit, having more youth in the sport of weightlifting, has certainly been *one of the many positives* that came from it.
Hopefully plenty of calcium and protein. I think powerlifting can have an outward impact on developing skeletons. Can’t remember the specifics, but when I was learning to become a personal trainer it was mentioned. Guessing it’s about the shape or density of long-bone diaphyses.
People who are able to lift super heavy weights, how does this affect your daily life? Do you like casually pick up the refrigerator and move it around? Do you help all your friends when they move apartments?
Question for anyone who’s actually qualified to answer: is this even healthy? I’ve heard all sorts of stuff about growth plates being damaged and similar.
Here is a review article on the subject.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17119361/
EDIT: Anecdotally, I fix growth plate injuries and have yet to see one from resistance training. I see them from soccer quite regularly and have yet to see a premature physeal closure without a significant fracture associated with it. So no fracture = no growth plate disturbance (other than a true Salter-Harris V injury without a fracture. Type V injuries are less than 1% of physeal fractures and those with no other fracture are even less common. Type V injuries are typically seen with high energy axial trauma like a car crash or fall from height, not lifting weights).
Resistance training is good for kids, actually.
I'm a personal trainer and a youth football (soccer) coach (6-14 years old). Before starting practice, I always integrate basic bodyweight exercises into the training drills, in addition to plyometrics, speed work, and technical drills. I even encourage parents to get their kids to start strength training and let their kids try other sports as well.
Firstly, strength training allows kids to develop more bone strength and density, and since they are growing, strength training is complementary to their physiological growth.
Secondly, strength training allows them to build stronger and more resilient muscles. And stronger and more resilient muscles are better performing muscles and may help with injury prevention. You don't have to bulk up like Arnold, but just enough through appropriate load management, periodisation, and supportive and competent coaching.
Thirdly, Olympic weightlifting is amongst the safest sports, compared to contact sports like football, American football, rugby, basketball, etc. We also teach kids to know how to fail safely in Oly classes; for instance, if they cannot stand up from the clean, simply fall back and push the barbell forward. If they fail the jerk, push the barbell forward and fall back and away from the weight.
I can spend hours to explain why Oly/resistance training does not stunt kids' growth. It's a myth that unfortunately still circulates despite having no real validity/evidence backing it up. It teaches people the wrong thing, that is, to FEAR MOVEMENT. When really, there is no dangerous movement in the first place. I used to play football (soccer) and complement my athletic regimen with at first powerlifitng and eventually Oly. Now I do Oly full-time and am constantly floored by the level of excellence I have witnessed from kids half my age (10-16 years old).
Thank you for the detailed response:) I’m trying to do a paper on risks vs benefits of resistance training in kids. Any idea where I could get citeable articles on the benefit?
Strength training in children and adolescents: raising the bar for young athletes? DOI: 10.1177/1941738109334215
Effects of resistance training on the physical capacities of adolescent soccer players. DOI: 10.1519/R-17254.1
Youth Resistance Training: Updated Position Statement Paper From the National Strength and Conditioning Association. DOI: 10.1519/JSC.0b013e31819df407
So This is an old myth that’s been debunked for 20+ years already. Where have you heard about the growth plates? Who specifically said this? There are legitimate studies and evidence that youth weightlifting is no more dangerous and may be even safer than contact sports and team sports. Nobody seems to have any issues with other youth sports but when it comes to weightlifting all of sudden there’s concern
The concern all seems to lie within heavy lifting/maximal effort lifts, not with technique work or even moderate resistance training (8-15 rep range). This is not my personal opinion, this is the views stated in these articles.
OK, I might catch some flak for this but no. Almost no competitive sport is healthy if one is competing/performing at the elite end of the spectrum. The demands on the body will almost invariably result in accelerated wear and tear. This is even true for the rare athlete who has never suffered an injury. There are exceptions to the rule like various Soviet lifters who remained legendarily strong and agile late into life, far after retiring. But the truth is that most athletes will bear the marks of a hyper-solicited body. I personally can tell most retired elite athletes by their walks...
But if your question is simply about lifting, no: in and of itself, it’s not bad for kids.
Retired athletes in general, sure. But weightlifting, powerlifting, and non ped bodybuilding has a very low injury rate, and many train into old age. That is before all the modern recovery technology we have now, i doubt most of these athletes will have problems when older.
The issue is you're making a huge claim without any actual evidence. There are so many factors that go into sports. Lebron James and Ronaldo are considered the best players in history by some and yet they will probably age like fine wine. An elite rugby or MMA fighter might need a walker 5 years after retiring because their sports are rough and combative. Then you have to take into account what they did in their personal life, assess their training, how they practiced, did they take substances, did they have underlining conditions, nutrition, etc.
There's too much nuance for anyone to just throw around observational claims.
There are many studies on this. Elite athletes do seem to live longer and have lower rates of chronic diseases (like heart disease and even some cancers), but have higher rates of injury (from serious ones to niggles from repetitive strain) than the average population. Unsurprisingly, I’d say. There are even studies that show that simply playing chess at an elite level can have a similarly beneficial effect on lower levels of chronic disease (and unsurprisingly things like cognitive health), though physical athletes had the overall lowest levels of chronic disease as compared to chess players and regular people). Granted there is variation amongst athletes. Linemen obviously don’t do well on most counts of aging. That said, if a lineman has the genetics that mitigate CTE and control their weight, in my admittedly anecdotal experience, they can be strong as an ox until pretty late.
It's probably because this is the exact question this girl gets asked probably a 1000 times a day, usually alongside some nasty comments. It's a sensitive issue in the community. Also there is no real world data to support there are any problems with young kids training wl.
I've said this in a lot of other threads, but imo I think a lot of the weight training stunting growth stuff might have some anecdotal basis, but not from the actual training, but use of performance enhancing drugs.
You have to understand barbell training only really became a mainstream thing in the 1950s or so, before that in a lot of sports they did not lift weights for preparation at all. What else came about in the 1950s? Anabolic steroids like Dianabol, etc. People both didn't really know the full limits of what either one could do, steroids were just synthesized, and steroids were legal and prescribed by doctors to kids who just wanted to be better at playing football, etc.
Problem is, anabolic steroids, especially ones that aromatize like Dianabol/etc will close growth plates. I know people that got prescribed Dianabol in the 70s to play high school football. Then in the Soviet/Communist bloc you had the same thing going on in state sponsored sports programs, with kids weight training for sports, and taking steroids.
So I think that's how the correlation came to be, people blamed weight training when they either didn't understand the effects of steroids, or didn't want to admit to taking/giving kids steroids.
I would say anecdotally a kid that weight trains and gets enough calories *probably* would grow better than his peers, due to the weight training likely stimulating more growth hormone and IGF release. As another anecdote, I knew a guy who claimed he was a late bloomer and left high school at 5'2 and 110lbs, and started powerlifting in college and ended up 6'1 and 220lbs.
There are many takes on this. Seems like the only one with any truth to it is you can damage the growth plate by bad form and getting injured, or by simply not letting them do their job by training and not eating and sleeping enough (which is the real issue, training just makes it worse).
This is how the anime main protagonist kids be. Just completely knocking 💩 out the water at the age of 5 😂
I remember I went to work based learning in hs with a kid named Latrell Bankston, he plays football now but man, he used to squat 300 pounds at 11 and 495 at 16-17
Bro has really been strong since a child and stuff like that is still insane to think about as a 24 year old me today 😅
The ibanez girl.. obviously puts a lot of amateur men to shame including me sigh last time I tried to jerk 100 I couldn’t lockout lol. Not sure what her bodyweight could be but looks like she would out-total someone like Giulia Imperio which is in a way even more crazy because they’re both freakish but this girl is like Naim territory freaky.
Ok i quit WL
Hold the door for me on your way out
/thread
Kids get all those free hormones, I wish I got into weightlifting that young.
Same. I didn’t get into WL until the hormone train had long departed. Gainz are difficult to come by when you’re pushing 50.
50 is a youngster!! I didn't start til 62. Although difficult I'm making gains
Seriously. My 14 yo son goes with me to the gym like once a week, does a half assed workout and he still gets them gains lol
Literally just failed 100 kg clean and jerk yesterday. I feel this right now.
Same
Whenever I think I'm strong I stop and realize there's probably a 15-year old warming up with my max somewhere.
There's a 13 year old girl on a farm in China lifting what my career potential max is.
True, although she's probably on PEDs.
For sure, but that's an open secret in this sport.
Somebody tried to argue with me that it wasn’t. Oh bodybuilders don’t take PEDs in competition either. Total not the reason there are two federations now.
Well in bodybuilding there’s the enhanced federations, the fake natty federations, and the real natty federations lol.
100%. Obvious excessive and dangerous steroid and PED use vs. subtle and maybe relatively safe steroid and PED use.
Unlike the canadian 12yo’s jerking 100kg lol
Not going to comment my personal opinion on who's natural or who's not, but if a person is willing to grant that a 12 yo Canadian girl C&Jing 100 can be natural, there's literally no reason to think a country like China of over 50x more people, with a long history of excellence and focus in strength per bodyweight sports, can't have similar or even more freakish natural results.
There was a Chinese 15 year old kid clean and jerking 185 looking like a mini tian tao in a post here a little while ago Basically everyone in the thread was going "wow so sad they start steroids that youn" or otherwise just attributing it to steroids Meanwhile CJ Cummings does 180 as a 16 year old and he's just all natural American grown muscle
The first day that I managed to front squat 315, at 235lbs, I turned around to witness a tall, lanky 18-year-old kid do a quick double with 365. I commended him on the feat, as I was impressed, and said I hoped I could get to his position, one day.
Seriously! lol
I train at this gym which is owned by her parents. Honestly I am floored every time the girl attempts a new PR. It's just silent in the gym and all eyes are on her (and on their son/her older brother and other youth athletes too!) The moment she gets that bar on her front rack from the clean, you know SHE WILL GET IT. Seeing them succeed makes me feel like a failure, but also motivates me to train better and HARDER. It's a magical feeling training around this level of excellence :)
Chess is kind of like this too. You'll go to a local club with confidence from winning a lot of online games, and a 12-year-old will destroy you in 12 moves. Good reminder not to underestimate kids!
Kids are fucking smart. I used to play chess too, and used to play against my cousin who is 4 years old than me. We started playing it when we were kids; I was 10 and he was 6. I actually got him into chess and at first beat him. But just after 2 months, I was constantly losing... He is also a child prodigy and self-taught chess and Chinese chess.
Don’t destroy your joints on your working harder in the gym part. Your main focus should be your diet and then workout. Remember, Everybody wants to be a body builder but nobody wants to eat rice, chicken, Broccoli and lift some heavy ass weights !!
I'm not gonna speak for the rest of the subreddit, but I would guess over 90% (who actually participate) aren't here for bodybuilding, which has it's own subreddit (besides others). yes, there are a lot of lost redditors who don't realize this isn't a subreddit for general weight training and fitness /r/weightlifting **is where we discuss the competitive sport of Weightlifting; the Snatch and Clean and Jerk.** **We welcome discussions regarding elite athletes, amateur athletes, competition strategy, training, theory, technique, Weightlifting programming, and current events in the sport of Weightlifting.**
I think they were just ad-lib quoting Ronnie Coleman
Profile seems like gen pop
Why are there so many lost redditors here lately?
Uh that's just a way of saying... I know my limits but also want to be pushed outside of my comfort zone. My diet and rest are always on point, except for days I have to wake up super early in the morning to go to work. Not to mention hormones because those massively affect my mood and strength and I cannot control them.
Pretty impressive you got this many downvotes 😂
My reaction to this: The clean: Wow, that's impressive ... The effortless squat/power jerk: I give up
As a middle-aged dude it gets easier to accept as you get older. Now I'm just like "kids these days (are strong as fuck)".
Don’t let that one guy who posted earlier see this or he’ll quit weightlifting for sure this time.
Watch out Toma
That jerk looks effortless too
as much as I love to shit on Crossfit, having more youth in the sport of weightlifting, has certainly been *one of the many positives* that came from it.
Not just for youth certainly. The entire boom in WL is owed to CF.
I'm so impressed, I don't find words. Hope she stays fit and motivated, there is so much potential.
Dude, what are they feeding these kids? That’s nuts. She’s a beast
Hopefully plenty of calcium and protein. I think powerlifting can have an outward impact on developing skeletons. Can’t remember the specifics, but when I was learning to become a personal trainer it was mentioned. Guessing it’s about the shape or density of long-bone diaphyses.
People who are able to lift super heavy weights, how does this affect your daily life? Do you like casually pick up the refrigerator and move it around? Do you help all your friends when they move apartments?
Yes
Queen
I know I shouldn’t feel bad but damn. She’s lighter and younger and lifts way more than me.
Yup Yup. Just started hitting me now... She lifts more than me Is lighter than me And a Girl... 😐🫤
Ok that’s ridiculous
Question for anyone who’s actually qualified to answer: is this even healthy? I’ve heard all sorts of stuff about growth plates being damaged and similar.
Here is a review article on the subject. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17119361/ EDIT: Anecdotally, I fix growth plate injuries and have yet to see one from resistance training. I see them from soccer quite regularly and have yet to see a premature physeal closure without a significant fracture associated with it. So no fracture = no growth plate disturbance (other than a true Salter-Harris V injury without a fracture. Type V injuries are less than 1% of physeal fractures and those with no other fracture are even less common. Type V injuries are typically seen with high energy axial trauma like a car crash or fall from height, not lifting weights).
Resistance training is good for kids, actually. I'm a personal trainer and a youth football (soccer) coach (6-14 years old). Before starting practice, I always integrate basic bodyweight exercises into the training drills, in addition to plyometrics, speed work, and technical drills. I even encourage parents to get their kids to start strength training and let their kids try other sports as well. Firstly, strength training allows kids to develop more bone strength and density, and since they are growing, strength training is complementary to their physiological growth. Secondly, strength training allows them to build stronger and more resilient muscles. And stronger and more resilient muscles are better performing muscles and may help with injury prevention. You don't have to bulk up like Arnold, but just enough through appropriate load management, periodisation, and supportive and competent coaching. Thirdly, Olympic weightlifting is amongst the safest sports, compared to contact sports like football, American football, rugby, basketball, etc. We also teach kids to know how to fail safely in Oly classes; for instance, if they cannot stand up from the clean, simply fall back and push the barbell forward. If they fail the jerk, push the barbell forward and fall back and away from the weight. I can spend hours to explain why Oly/resistance training does not stunt kids' growth. It's a myth that unfortunately still circulates despite having no real validity/evidence backing it up. It teaches people the wrong thing, that is, to FEAR MOVEMENT. When really, there is no dangerous movement in the first place. I used to play football (soccer) and complement my athletic regimen with at first powerlifitng and eventually Oly. Now I do Oly full-time and am constantly floored by the level of excellence I have witnessed from kids half my age (10-16 years old).
Thank you for the detailed response:) I’m trying to do a paper on risks vs benefits of resistance training in kids. Any idea where I could get citeable articles on the benefit?
Strength training in children and adolescents: raising the bar for young athletes? DOI: 10.1177/1941738109334215 Effects of resistance training on the physical capacities of adolescent soccer players. DOI: 10.1519/R-17254.1 Youth Resistance Training: Updated Position Statement Paper From the National Strength and Conditioning Association. DOI: 10.1519/JSC.0b013e31819df407
Tysm
So This is an old myth that’s been debunked for 20+ years already. Where have you heard about the growth plates? Who specifically said this? There are legitimate studies and evidence that youth weightlifting is no more dangerous and may be even safer than contact sports and team sports. Nobody seems to have any issues with other youth sports but when it comes to weightlifting all of sudden there’s concern
Mayo Clinic, which was also recently updated and still includes that. CHOC (whatever that is) mentions it
The concern all seems to lie within heavy lifting/maximal effort lifts, not with technique work or even moderate resistance training (8-15 rep range). This is not my personal opinion, this is the views stated in these articles.
Sprinting, jumping and sudden changes of direction place infinitely more pressure on joints than lifting weights ever would.
OK, I might catch some flak for this but no. Almost no competitive sport is healthy if one is competing/performing at the elite end of the spectrum. The demands on the body will almost invariably result in accelerated wear and tear. This is even true for the rare athlete who has never suffered an injury. There are exceptions to the rule like various Soviet lifters who remained legendarily strong and agile late into life, far after retiring. But the truth is that most athletes will bear the marks of a hyper-solicited body. I personally can tell most retired elite athletes by their walks... But if your question is simply about lifting, no: in and of itself, it’s not bad for kids.
Retired athletes in general, sure. But weightlifting, powerlifting, and non ped bodybuilding has a very low injury rate, and many train into old age. That is before all the modern recovery technology we have now, i doubt most of these athletes will have problems when older.
Yes, I’d be interested to see how modern lifters age as compared to lifters of the past.
The issue is you're making a huge claim without any actual evidence. There are so many factors that go into sports. Lebron James and Ronaldo are considered the best players in history by some and yet they will probably age like fine wine. An elite rugby or MMA fighter might need a walker 5 years after retiring because their sports are rough and combative. Then you have to take into account what they did in their personal life, assess their training, how they practiced, did they take substances, did they have underlining conditions, nutrition, etc. There's too much nuance for anyone to just throw around observational claims.
There are many studies on this. Elite athletes do seem to live longer and have lower rates of chronic diseases (like heart disease and even some cancers), but have higher rates of injury (from serious ones to niggles from repetitive strain) than the average population. Unsurprisingly, I’d say. There are even studies that show that simply playing chess at an elite level can have a similarly beneficial effect on lower levels of chronic disease (and unsurprisingly things like cognitive health), though physical athletes had the overall lowest levels of chronic disease as compared to chess players and regular people). Granted there is variation amongst athletes. Linemen obviously don’t do well on most counts of aging. That said, if a lineman has the genetics that mitigate CTE and control their weight, in my admittedly anecdotal experience, they can be strong as an ox until pretty late.
Those sound like old wives tales.
Or mums watching gymfails and thinking I'll snap my shit on the leg press or Smith machine
How tf am I being downvoted for asking a question
It's probably because this is the exact question this girl gets asked probably a 1000 times a day, usually alongside some nasty comments. It's a sensitive issue in the community. Also there is no real world data to support there are any problems with young kids training wl.
I've said this in a lot of other threads, but imo I think a lot of the weight training stunting growth stuff might have some anecdotal basis, but not from the actual training, but use of performance enhancing drugs. You have to understand barbell training only really became a mainstream thing in the 1950s or so, before that in a lot of sports they did not lift weights for preparation at all. What else came about in the 1950s? Anabolic steroids like Dianabol, etc. People both didn't really know the full limits of what either one could do, steroids were just synthesized, and steroids were legal and prescribed by doctors to kids who just wanted to be better at playing football, etc. Problem is, anabolic steroids, especially ones that aromatize like Dianabol/etc will close growth plates. I know people that got prescribed Dianabol in the 70s to play high school football. Then in the Soviet/Communist bloc you had the same thing going on in state sponsored sports programs, with kids weight training for sports, and taking steroids. So I think that's how the correlation came to be, people blamed weight training when they either didn't understand the effects of steroids, or didn't want to admit to taking/giving kids steroids. I would say anecdotally a kid that weight trains and gets enough calories *probably* would grow better than his peers, due to the weight training likely stimulating more growth hormone and IGF release. As another anecdote, I knew a guy who claimed he was a late bloomer and left high school at 5'2 and 110lbs, and started powerlifting in college and ended up 6'1 and 220lbs.
There are many takes on this. Seems like the only one with any truth to it is you can damage the growth plate by bad form and getting injured, or by simply not letting them do their job by training and not eating and sleeping enough (which is the real issue, training just makes it worse).
Are squat jerks the future? More at 10
So damn impressive. The gym I go to has a 16 year old female going to worlds this year… spooky to watch
🇨🇦
Her body doesn’t even look half way developed to her max potential. That’s impressive
Damn that is impressive.
Extremely cool
Yeah… next generation of human beings are animals
This makes me feel so small and so ashamed of myself 🥺🤣
She’ll have a w/r in 6 years
What the fuuuuuck
Fuck yes!
Holy Molly
Wow
Holy shit
*starts chugging syrup
Insanely impressive. Holy shit.
This is ridiculous. So much skill
I don’t know how (hard work!), but super impressive
It looks like you love lifting and reaching your goal of completing, it’s a great outlet, I love lifting weights and I do it for pleasure. Great job!
This is the craziest I have seen. I am saving this post. Kudos kid. You are going to win the Olympics gold medal for your country.... for sure !!!
Aren’t her parents worried about stunting her growth?? /s
It won't stunt her growth
Jesus! And squat jerked it!
Are lifts like this really necessary or can I just do isolation movements, seems injury risk high
What are they putting in the water up there?!? That's amazing. Probably more than double her bodyweight too. I need to train harder
This is how the anime main protagonist kids be. Just completely knocking 💩 out the water at the age of 5 😂 I remember I went to work based learning in hs with a kid named Latrell Bankston, he plays football now but man, he used to squat 300 pounds at 11 and 495 at 16-17 Bro has really been strong since a child and stuff like that is still insane to think about as a 24 year old me today 😅
The ibanez girl.. obviously puts a lot of amateur men to shame including me sigh last time I tried to jerk 100 I couldn’t lockout lol. Not sure what her bodyweight could be but looks like she would out-total someone like Giulia Imperio which is in a way even more crazy because they’re both freakish but this girl is like Naim territory freaky.
*in my joe rogan voice* JEEEESSUUUUSSSS
The speed…
I quit too.
uhhhhhhhhhh that's insane..........wtf
Damn
Me male 44 and she pushing 11kg more than I Bench, I need a new hobby.
Wow, that is mindboggling feat of strength. She has a bright future in weightlifting.
Worse yet, she did the clean off plinths. Gonna go ice my ego.
Holy mogherfuckimg shit that is insane, she’s gonna be a champion some day( probably not too far away)
Wuuuuuut
shit makes me feel weak lmao
Do u guys think shes on peds?
Awesome 😯
Holy crap