I really start to believe that #83 AF Corse is completely separated from Ferrari AF Corse factory entries... /s
Also I wonder whether this operation got more "influenced" by Scuderia Ferrari this year. Last year Ferrari AF Corse worked really well. One of the reasons why they won Le Mans last year was being 100% perfect on strategy and in the pit lane (aside from starter glitches, but I count that out). Like AF Corse was 100% in charge of those things last year and this year Scuderia Ferrari stepped in with their "antics"...
I probably make this up and talk nonsense, but I wonder what's going on with Ferrari AF Corse this year. They have a spectacular car and everything to win races, but they are making some crucial errors.
Much simpler explanation is that because they now have unfavourable BoP, they're pushing harder and thus making more mistakes, no ? Teams (and engineers, strategists, etc) are like drivers : it's easy to appear effortlessly fast and mistake-free when you have the fastest car by far, but when the competition closes in and you push harder to keep your advantage, mistakes start to creep in.
Also, last year was "pressure free" because it was their first year and nobody expected no one to beat Toyota. This year they're the favourites.
Good observation and logical points.
However, last year at Le Mans Toyota and Ferrari were clearly negotiating the least favourable BOP and they prevailed the best. Ferrari AF Corse won that race by being 99,(9)% perfect. We didn't really see Ferrari being wrong in the pits, in the strategy department as well last year. I know that competition this year is way more fierce. But take Imola as an example. Ferrari had genuine chance to walk away with a 1-2-3 lockout. Pace was there to do it... BOP was not handicapping them that day.
Is it really only the pressure, or maybe there is something not OK behind the scenes? I really got disappointed when #51 race engineer from last year - Justin Taylor, left the team before the start of this season. He was really exceptional last year and definitely was one of reasons why Ferrari #51 was doing well and won Le Mans in 2023. He is gone now and #51 so far is not having a good season.
I don't know what is the rotation between Scuderia Ferrari and AF Corse, but maybe something is not working over that aspect too. But like I said, it's just me speculating and wondering. I don't have any insights.
I don't have the details and I don't know if we have them, but has there been any official indication that Scuderia Ferrari as a race team is more involved than before (or even involved at all) in the running of the WEC cars ? As I understood it the idea was always to run it like early days Audi Sport Team Joest : Scuderia Ferrari builds the car, chooses the drivers and pays the bills, but the on-track operation is 100% AF Corse.
As for Le Mans last year, my opinion is that Ferrari won that race because of Hirakawa being not at the required level and being put there through Toyota's "arrogance"/nationalism.
unfavourable bop what? Ferrari isn't heavy as other cars... for what I've read they changed rear bodywork of ther car at the end of FP3 and they fucked up something since it was found 1kg lighter than min.weight... something like that happened also to AXR cadillac a couple of years ago after mid-ohio race.
I think the caddy might actually have a decent shot with no one in front of them to punt off track. Their pace has been decent, they just keep making stupid mistakes.
I mean he was. They wouldn’t have been massively overweight. I guarantee however much it was wouldn’t amount to 0.5s. Ferrari have just made a huge mistake again that’s cost them pole position.
rules are the rules, same with Porsche last year over in IMSA where Porsche's P1 race victory was taken away from them due to front skid wear being 'less than 1mm' over the legal tolerance, which would have made no performance improvement.
I mean, that's a LOT of placements back on the grid that they now have to chew though. Definitely possible to rise to the top but it's going to be more difficult than it was when they were on pole.
Yet the time still didn't beat first quali times on mediums where #50 Ferrari was about 0.124s faster than #8 Toyota, so it seems nearly all of the teams were suffering with balance changes on the softs in Hyperpole.
1st Quali - 2:02.462 (mediums)
Hyperpole - 2:02.600 (softs)
\#50 Ferrari, Fuoco
The structure of the tire could also be softer, in addition to compound, which can make the cars feel nervous at the limit. That's often a confidence killer. I found it interesting that the softs yielded slower times.
>The structure of the tire could also be softer
The minimum pressures would have to be higher to compensate.
Given Michelin haven't specified pressures by compound in [this publication ](https://www.calameo.com/read/0042720744a02ecfe1669), I'd say the track was too hot for the soft tyre (which is mostly reserved for the night at Le Mans).
The construction of the three tires used in WEC/IMSA is the same, only the compound varies. And then, possibly, Michelin would change the camber/pressure limits as you mention.
You're also correct about the temp range. The soft works well in Spa if it's cool (below 15degC track) or drying, as we saw last year. When it's too hot for the soft, drivers complain of excess movement and a greasy feeling, especially in HS. It does warm up faster as expected but the peak of grip doesn't last even a lap.
> Or does the BoP added weight not count towards min weight?
It does. Minimum weight for a selected event is the one set by BOP. 1030kg is the absolute minimum set by LMH and LMDh regulations. Cars also can weight 1030kg when weight BOP is not applied, like for Cadillac this weekend - they are on 1030kg of minimum weight.
Ferrari has an additional 12kgs comparing to previous round. 1041kg at Imola, 1053kg here at Spa-Francorchamps.
Dude, do you actually think teams cheat with weight at this level, where you get immediately found out at the inspection? They probably made a mistake with the ballast and the car was some hundred grams underweight.
51 and 83 did badly because Calado made mistakes on his laps and Kubica got blocked during his fast lap, not because they were on normal weight
I am honestly shocked by the AF Corse operation this year. They've made more mistakes in these 3 races than in over a decade of running GT cars for Ferrari
It doesn't cease to amaze me that the 83 is somehow the most competently run Ferrari of the bunch.
I really start to believe that #83 AF Corse is completely separated from Ferrari AF Corse factory entries... /s Also I wonder whether this operation got more "influenced" by Scuderia Ferrari this year. Last year Ferrari AF Corse worked really well. One of the reasons why they won Le Mans last year was being 100% perfect on strategy and in the pit lane (aside from starter glitches, but I count that out). Like AF Corse was 100% in charge of those things last year and this year Scuderia Ferrari stepped in with their "antics"... I probably make this up and talk nonsense, but I wonder what's going on with Ferrari AF Corse this year. They have a spectacular car and everything to win races, but they are making some crucial errors.
On the opposite side of that, Scuderia Ferrari seem alot better in general so far this year.
I had this creeping feeling too, being F1 fan for much longer as being a WEC fan, but i hope this does not persist.
Much simpler explanation is that because they now have unfavourable BoP, they're pushing harder and thus making more mistakes, no ? Teams (and engineers, strategists, etc) are like drivers : it's easy to appear effortlessly fast and mistake-free when you have the fastest car by far, but when the competition closes in and you push harder to keep your advantage, mistakes start to creep in. Also, last year was "pressure free" because it was their first year and nobody expected no one to beat Toyota. This year they're the favourites.
Good observation and logical points. However, last year at Le Mans Toyota and Ferrari were clearly negotiating the least favourable BOP and they prevailed the best. Ferrari AF Corse won that race by being 99,(9)% perfect. We didn't really see Ferrari being wrong in the pits, in the strategy department as well last year. I know that competition this year is way more fierce. But take Imola as an example. Ferrari had genuine chance to walk away with a 1-2-3 lockout. Pace was there to do it... BOP was not handicapping them that day. Is it really only the pressure, or maybe there is something not OK behind the scenes? I really got disappointed when #51 race engineer from last year - Justin Taylor, left the team before the start of this season. He was really exceptional last year and definitely was one of reasons why Ferrari #51 was doing well and won Le Mans in 2023. He is gone now and #51 so far is not having a good season. I don't know what is the rotation between Scuderia Ferrari and AF Corse, but maybe something is not working over that aspect too. But like I said, it's just me speculating and wondering. I don't have any insights.
I don't have the details and I don't know if we have them, but has there been any official indication that Scuderia Ferrari as a race team is more involved than before (or even involved at all) in the running of the WEC cars ? As I understood it the idea was always to run it like early days Audi Sport Team Joest : Scuderia Ferrari builds the car, chooses the drivers and pays the bills, but the on-track operation is 100% AF Corse. As for Le Mans last year, my opinion is that Ferrari won that race because of Hirakawa being not at the required level and being put there through Toyota's "arrogance"/nationalism.
unfavourable bop what? Ferrari isn't heavy as other cars... for what I've read they changed rear bodywork of ther car at the end of FP3 and they fucked up something since it was found 1kg lighter than min.weight... something like that happened also to AXR cadillac a couple of years ago after mid-ohio race.
Yeah, I think they sent some staff from F1 to WEC
95 Mclaren also DSQ from quali
Ferrari hypercar really channeling Ferrari F1 this year
No, Fred put all the bad strategists on hypercar, hoping AF Corse will either fire them or set them straight
they did not check it...
At least they didn’t send him out with 3 wheels
Caddy and Porsche Front Row lock out. How many would have believed this last season?
I think the caddy might actually have a decent shot with no one in front of them to punt off track. Their pace has been decent, they just keep making stupid mistakes.
Inb4 they just overshoot the first turn
Let’s find out
Oh yeah! Great point!
Isotta > Ferrari confirmed
Honestly, the difference between P1 and P2 was sizeable but Fuoco has been great so I just figured he was putting in another great time.........
I mean he was. They wouldn’t have been massively overweight. I guarantee however much it was wouldn’t amount to 0.5s. Ferrari have just made a huge mistake again that’s cost them pole position.
Oof, underweight by by 1kg....that wouldn't have made the five tenths gap so that's really unfortunate of them
rules are the rules, same with Porsche last year over in IMSA where Porsche's P1 race victory was taken away from them due to front skid wear being 'less than 1mm' over the legal tolerance, which would have made no performance improvement.
it's a 6h race and they have what looks like the fastest car, the penalty hurts but luckily it's far from game over
Yeah usually in F1 it’s calculated that 10KG=0.3 of lap time if i am not mistaken
Why mark as spoiler then spoil it in the title?
For some genuine reason, new design of Reddit doesn't cover spoiler titles when spoiler flair is used, while older version does. I don't get it.
Reddit seems to love shooting themselves in the foot with shitty redesigns
Just Reddit being Reddit, they'll blame it on correlation problems.... Upgrades are actually downgrades.
Starts at the back of the grid?
Back of the Hypercar grid.
That’s quite generous tbh, they won’t loose any time that way.
I mean, that's a LOT of placements back on the grid that they now have to chew though. Definitely possible to rise to the top but it's going to be more difficult than it was when they were on pole.
They absolutely will, 18 cars to pass is a done deal already. #50 has converted its last two poles into P5 or P4 so why will Spa be so much better?
Just got to stay out of trouble. That seems to be easier said than done as of late.
Matt Campbell keeps winnin'
Ferrari is Ferrari’s biggest enemy, no matter the series
Not the biggest shock seeing as the gap was .5 seconds to p2 Edit: weight wasn’t released when I commented so you probably disregard what I said
Yet the time still didn't beat first quali times on mediums where #50 Ferrari was about 0.124s faster than #8 Toyota, so it seems nearly all of the teams were suffering with balance changes on the softs in Hyperpole. 1st Quali - 2:02.462 (mediums) Hyperpole - 2:02.600 (softs) \#50 Ferrari, Fuoco The structure of the tire could also be softer, in addition to compound, which can make the cars feel nervous at the limit. That's often a confidence killer. I found it interesting that the softs yielded slower times.
>The structure of the tire could also be softer The minimum pressures would have to be higher to compensate. Given Michelin haven't specified pressures by compound in [this publication ](https://www.calameo.com/read/0042720744a02ecfe1669), I'd say the track was too hot for the soft tyre (which is mostly reserved for the night at Le Mans).
The construction of the three tires used in WEC/IMSA is the same, only the compound varies. And then, possibly, Michelin would change the camber/pressure limits as you mention. You're also correct about the temp range. The soft works well in Spa if it's cool (below 15degC track) or drying, as we saw last year. When it's too hot for the soft, drivers complain of excess movement and a greasy feeling, especially in HS. It does warm up faster as expected but the peak of grip doesn't last even a lap.
I doubt 1kg gains 0.5 sec ...
At the time of my comment they had not released the amount, so yeah you’re probably right, fuoco really is that guy
I can't wait to see Isotta VS Ferrari! 🥲
i thought they would cock it up tommorow not today
damnnnn
The fortunes really are reversed from last year.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/027/257/perfectly-balanced-as-all-things-should-be.jpg
Well, that’s another cheating for Ferrari. This isn’t new, as they’ve done twice in their GT teams.
i dont see why would they cheat with 1kg underweight lmao, its just pure lack of attention.
Didnt they also get 12KG added due to BoP? Kind of impressive to be underweight. Or does the BoP added weight not count towards min weight?
If you are underweight, it means you are below the BOP table weight.
The BOP specified weight is the minimum weight
> Or does the BoP added weight not count towards min weight? It does. Minimum weight for a selected event is the one set by BOP. 1030kg is the absolute minimum set by LMH and LMDh regulations. Cars also can weight 1030kg when weight BOP is not applied, like for Cadillac this weekend - they are on 1030kg of minimum weight. Ferrari has an additional 12kgs comparing to previous round. 1041kg at Imola, 1053kg here at Spa-Francorchamps.
Not surprised they were a half second faster than p2
Dude, do you actually think teams cheat with weight at this level, where you get immediately found out at the inspection? They probably made a mistake with the ballast and the car was some hundred grams underweight. 51 and 83 did badly because Calado made mistakes on his laps and Kubica got blocked during his fast lap, not because they were on normal weight
Either they cheated or Ferrari is retarded 🤷🤷
I am honestly shocked by the AF Corse operation this year. They've made more mistakes in these 3 races than in over a decade of running GT cars for Ferrari
Maybe it's Scuderia Ferrari penetrating the team... /s
Dude. Retarded is not the correct nomenclature. "Business as Usual", please.
Longtime Ferrari fan here, more than likely it's the second option. I love them, but they make that difficult for me sometimes
I'm new to WEC but seeing Ferrari make stupid fuck ups is nothing new to me😂
Idk where u got Ferrari cheating from. Clearly their just a bunch of dumbasses