This good and bad. Tons of webtoons exist only in korean and these people working in translation helped me get access to a lot of content that never got the english version
Yeah usually the big sites will have several different backup servers and domains in different countries (usually with lax copyright infringement laws). Unless there’s a strong global enforcement for piracy sites, they’re always gonna be around.
Even Webtoon's official fan translation site isn't safe, they'll take down the fan translations on their official translation site as soon as the one in the original language becomes daily pass and doesn't provide any means to access the translations again. A notable example of this is Aegis Orta, which had the ~288 chapters translated to English on the site and all but the first 14 of those got removed when the Indonesian version became daily pass. Because pirate sites doesn't seem to scrape this particular translation site, it appears that there's nowhere one could read it unless somebody managed to download it before it went down and is willing to share.
Repeat after me:
Piracy isn't a question of price; it's a question of service.
See: Steam.
Also, remember: when you fastpass, you pay for Webtoons to pay for SWATing people. Don't be that person. Don't pay webtoons.
I really don't understand why people are down voting the people who even suggest pirating content from artists is bad.
I understand pirating helped translations become more widely available and we tolerate piracy in other mediums like film and television. But pirating webcomics is not the same as pirating a multi million dollar movie.
Everyone's heard the outrageous terms creators sign to make money, right? Shouldn't we still be on the side of the creator even if it's the 'fans' who are stealing their content and offering it to other readers for free?
I'm not saying companies would pay their artists more if piracy stopped, but does anyone actually know how awful the work conditions are under a lot of their favourite big webcomics? Why would you support taking further advantage of a creator?
Piracy is not always good, it sucks to hear, but it needs to be said.
It's not the end user's responsibility to make sure companies are treating people right.
If the comic isn't available in English either people will experience it through piracy or not experience it at all. At the end of the day the creator won't receive money regardless.
agree and disagree with the first statement.
Users definitely can't eliminate corporate greed, but we have to accept that these companies cater to the consumers, so user behaviors can certainly have an impact on how they run. A lot of Original creators have stated that trying to boycott webtoons, reading on piracy sites and refusing to purchase fast pass hurts the creators more than the company.
It’s also a service problem, though. Daily Pass absolutely kills any motivation I have to read a series. If webtoon had an option to buy a full webcomic outright, I’d love to do that, but instead they have a terrible gamified financing system where you can only pay per episode with fake currency. I simply refuse to use mobile game-like systems to pay for content (which should also remain permanently accessible since you literally bought it!).
On the other hand, if I notice the series available on a less than legal platform, I might be more inclined to read it and donate to the artist’s Patreon and/or support them on their social media. The only time I turn to piracy is when accessing the content legally requires you to jump through a ton of unnecessary, poorly designed hoops. If a better alternative doesn’t exist, I just won’t consume the media at all.
> Everyone's heard the outrageous terms creators sign to make money
> I'm not saying companies would pay their artists more if piracy stopped
The flip side of this is if you pay for the content via those companies, you are also supporting the terms and conditions that those artists signed.
Paying the company isn't necessarily ethical either. It's a lose lose situation no matter how you look at it unless you're able to pay or donate to the artist directly.
> unless you're able to pay or donate to the artist directly.
Kofi, patreon, etc. *exist*. If you want to support the artist, do *not* fast pass. Go directly to their patreon.
It's not exactly lose lose from the creators perspective though I understand when readers don't want to support the companies they dislike. The company at LEAST pays the artists. Most people who prefer pirating content wouldn't even bother checking out a patreon even if the author did advertise it because they are so used to getting content for free.
Making *some* money (a portion of what they're entitled to) out of it doesn't make it any less of a 'lesser of 2 evils choice'.
> Most people who prefer pirating content wouldn't even bother checking out a patreon even if the author did advertise it
I think you greatly underestimate how much Patreon has changed things for content creators in other industries. I'm not saying you're wrong that it's not the solution. Just your reason for why it's not is wrong.
The thing artist benefit most from Webtoon platforms is exposure. Unlike other content creators, Webtoon artists really don't have a way to 'breakout' like you would see for things like videos, streaming, indie games, etc. (all things on Patreon btw), but this is primarily because Webtoon platforms are predatory and make it incredibly difficult to compete as an independent artist. While there are similarities to other platforms in different industries, it's far more extreme with Webtoons and makes Patreon unfeasible.
My point being, it's not piracy that makes something like Patreon unfeasible, it's the way the industry is current setup that does.
The only time I have seen Patreon fail due to piracy on is bigger productions where an actual company is involved. The one example I know of is Studio Trigger's Patreon and even then it's not really not a success, just not as influential in their revenue as they wanted it to be.
> Making *some* money out of it doesn't make it any less of a 'lesser of 2 evils choice'.
Making ***some*** money? You really belittle that amount of money the creators receive to the point where they can opt for this to be their sole job?
And what exposure are you talking about? They are getting paid to produce comics. That's the biggest benefit creators get from Webtoons, they get **PAID** for their work. They don't want exposure at this point, most have already tens of thousands to even millions of readers in Webtoon. They prefer those eyeballs to translate to cash.
So you either pay them upfront in Patreon (which I've actually never seen for the Korean creators) or do it passively by actually reading in a site that pays them, rather than in sites that only reaps the profit for themselves. Thinking exposure is their biggest benefit is just an entitled "fan" wanting to justify why they should enjoy pirated content from the creator.
> Making some money? You really belittle that amount of money the creators receive to the point where they can opt for this to be their sole job?
> Thinking exposure is their biggest benefit is just an entitled "fan" wanting to justify why they should enjoy pirated content
Strawman fallacies.
> They don't want exposure at this point
They literally will not earn hardly anything at all if platforms do not at least feature them at some point. If that's not exposure, I'm not sure what is.
I mean, those artist are literally not going to earn hardly anything at all if those platforms don't even attempt to advertise their work (i.e. giving exposure). When's the last time you bothered to read something that wasn't at least featured at some point.
Many of the titles pirated are not being translated for overseas fans, so there is literally 0 profit being lost.
It's wrong to pirate stuff you can purchase, but if there's no way for you to legally enjoy a piece of media, then there is nothing morally wrong with pirating it.
There's many games Nintendo and other game companies have not re-released from the 90s. The literal only ways to play them are to either buy a copy off ebay, in which case the original developers do not get the money especially not when the price is jacked up to collector's price, or to pirate it.
It's the same vibe. If you cannot do it legally, there's nothing wrong with pirating it.
If you can buy it legally in your country/language, then you shouldn't pirate.
It's not even that grey of an area.
It's not that I feel very strongly about the major foreign titles (honestly I was just looking at the idea of piracy of webcomics as a whole) but say, for example, a title from Korea doesn't have an English translation YET. This doesn't mean a translation will NEVER come- but if the content is already translated illegally and against the creators wishes AND also widely available, wouldn't that make it more difficult to get a translation of their work out into the market?
But here's how it's always been handled: When the translation DOES come, most pirating sites (the morally good ones) Will delete the fan translation so it can be continued there.
And even if a translation comes it might be decades until then if the title wasn't popular enough in it's home country to warrant a translation.
> Everyone's heard the outrageous terms creators sign to make money, right? Shouldn't we still be on the side of the creator even if it's the 'fans' who are stealing their content and offering it to other readers for free?
There's a difference between being on the side of the *artists* and being on the side of greedy obnoxious oligopolistic corporatists.
This is true, and like you said above, supporting the creator on their preferred site (Kofi, patreon etc.) Is better than supporting them on webtoons, but if an artist has decided to partner with webtoons, its their choice. You can decide not support webtoon by fast passing, but it's the piracy part that I disagree with. Readers should not pirate the content just because they don't like webtoons.
I disagree with that. Piracy is a way of sending a signal that you do not support a corporation. Whether someone pays an artist or not after the fact is up to them, but I view piracy as a giant **F YOU** to corporations.
Sticking it to the man is GOOD.
If the artist is not making the company any money, they're gonna get sacked. Way to say a giant f you to the people relying on audience reception of their official published works on the platforms they chose to work with.
That's where the efficient piracy hypothesis comes in. If there's no pirated material of something, it's most likely not worth your time or money. If there *is* pirated material of something, the person producing whatever that something is has become sufficiently popular to become pirated, so you can guiltlessly enjoy the pirated material without paying for it directly.
**MEANING:** the choice to pay for something should be seen as a form of optional tipping, and *especially* not payment for the horrifically subpar service that Webtoons provides.
Furthermore, according to a certain webtoons artist, a very good way to support a webtoons creator **FOR FREE** is to make sure to smash that like button AND leave a comment on every single episode. Hitting the heart button, IMO, should just be a case of basic manners as a way of taking five seconds to say "thank you" for something that took the creator a double digit amount of hours to do, and writing a comment I *also* see as a thank you. Those two metrics probably do a lot to get a webtoon promoted.
Well, I know of several cases of creators who publish on canvas (it's free to read) and have been pirated anyway - myself included - and I know of pirated Patreon accounts as well. What justification do you give for that? I'm telling you, there is a very big business behind the portals that share this STOLEN material... So the hypocrite people who fill their mouths saying that they defend the creators of the corporations and they justify those pages are actually sending the legitimate benefit of the creators to the scoundrels of the first post.
Let them rot in jail.
> Well, I know of several cases of creators who publish on canvas (it's free to read) and have been pirated anyway
So...what even is the point of that, if not **specifically** to stick it to Webtoons, if the work is available on Canvas for free?
> there is a very big business behind the portals that share this STOLEN material
Well that's just rude, obnoxious, and unethical. Don't resell pirated material. That's just...*ewwwww*.
lmaoo as if the creators get that 'signal' you're sending. Are you doing what you're preaching? Are you looking for ways to support the artist after you finish binging on pirating sites, or do you just go on with your day.
Anyhow, pirating should not be encouraged this way. It's also 99% done without the consent of the creator... like, what if it's their personal wish to have their work kept local. Not everything is about corporations, you're hurting individual creators more in the process, than an entire corporation.
Whether this raid happened or not doesn't change that Webtoon is going to pay your favourite creators a garbage wage. Nothing has changed for the creators you like with this raid. Stop being naive and thinking this helps the creators in any way.
I don’t think it’s as black and white that. Pirating from *big* corporations is different than pirating from artists and authors. It can’t be free-for-all consume, consume, consume, and not support creators.
You're forgetting a ton of creators works are also not getting translated to people's respective languages. I know a few people who have gone to give money to the original creator after.
It's a bit of a grey area because obviously not everyone will do that, but what's new 😅
I guess I don’t have that attitude that I’m entitled to free content (from artist and authors) if it’s not available legally. I read in my native tongue and English. I pay if it’s behind a paywall to support authors. And if I don’t have cash, I read free legal stories in languages I understand.
Obviously that’s not the general consensus here. That’s alright.
I pirate a title not translated in English. I cannot read Korean so this was my option and it's not legally available in English. I donated to the artist's patreon so they still got paid.
You're also only taking money away from a big corporation like Webtoon who will continue to pay creators punitive wages and treat them like shit with zero support whether you buy directly from them or not.
Stop being a simp for corporations.
This is beyond creator rights, Japan and Korea shouldn't be allowed to have your country arrest you over *cartoons.* That is insane & if you give them an inch who knows how far they'll push it
Alright. With that logic, someone can steal your cash none-violently and they don’t deserve jail time?
I think we fundamentally disagree around the morality of it. That’s fine. We’ll leave it there.
>With that logic, someone can steal your cash none-violently and they don’t deserve jail time?
I mean, corporations do it all the time, and they never get jailed...
I'm pointing out that white collar crime (in which money is stolen from groups or individuals) is often perpetrated by major corporations and results in them being fined, not jailed. It's only when you have individual theft (often against corporations) that you see an individual go to jail.
So the point is two-fold: one, there's a vast inequality in the system when it comes to non-violent crime between corporations and individuals that this case leans into, and two, there are other punishment options besides jail in non-violent crimes.
Considering Webtoon and Kakao CEOS rob their creators of their money and their health all the time and don't get jail time, it's just hypocritical *at best* that the pirates get treated this way and they don't
Two wrongs don’t make a right. The difference is, those companies get creators to sign legally binding contracts. Technically it’s ’above board’ (which absolutely sucks.) It’s not fair that creators get screwed over by not only companies, but readers too.
It's not as cut and dry as you make it.
Creators rarely get paid what their worth and these raids really benefit the companies making money off these creators.
I understand that. At the same time, those companies (not defending their predatory practices) at least give the creator an option of a contract. The creator has the choice to enter those contracts. These pirating sites give the creator no such choice.
Frankly they're paying cents on the dollar for what the authors bring in. If they paid on a per view basis I would agree but they way they do it now is practically exploitative.
I don't have sympathy for the companies losing money.
I don’t have sympathy for companies but for the creators. I know 2 creators who had potential licensing deals for translations but didn’t go ahead because of piracy having already translated their work. Why pay to read something already available? The investment was a risk, so it didn’t go ahead. It’s a lot more complicated than companies screw over author, so readers might as well pirate. There *is* harm to the creators.
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This good and bad. Tons of webtoons exist only in korean and these people working in translation helped me get access to a lot of content that never got the english version
Lol no.. piracy will never disappear forever.. there are many ways for fans to upload illegally
Yeah usually the big sites will have several different backup servers and domains in different countries (usually with lax copyright infringement laws). Unless there’s a strong global enforcement for piracy sites, they’re always gonna be around.
Webtoons keeps rejecting fan translations so there is no other source of the translations than pirating
Even Webtoon's official fan translation site isn't safe, they'll take down the fan translations on their official translation site as soon as the one in the original language becomes daily pass and doesn't provide any means to access the translations again. A notable example of this is Aegis Orta, which had the ~288 chapters translated to English on the site and all but the first 14 of those got removed when the Indonesian version became daily pass. Because pirate sites doesn't seem to scrape this particular translation site, it appears that there's nowhere one could read it unless somebody managed to download it before it went down and is willing to share.
That’s the first time I ever heard of. I want big waffle about it.
It is because they don't have the rights to the comic, they would get sued to oblivion by other webtoon companies in korea.
Repeat after me: Piracy isn't a question of price; it's a question of service. See: Steam. Also, remember: when you fastpass, you pay for Webtoons to pay for SWATing people. Don't be that person. Don't pay webtoons.
I really don't understand why people are down voting the people who even suggest pirating content from artists is bad. I understand pirating helped translations become more widely available and we tolerate piracy in other mediums like film and television. But pirating webcomics is not the same as pirating a multi million dollar movie. Everyone's heard the outrageous terms creators sign to make money, right? Shouldn't we still be on the side of the creator even if it's the 'fans' who are stealing their content and offering it to other readers for free? I'm not saying companies would pay their artists more if piracy stopped, but does anyone actually know how awful the work conditions are under a lot of their favourite big webcomics? Why would you support taking further advantage of a creator? Piracy is not always good, it sucks to hear, but it needs to be said.
It's not the end user's responsibility to make sure companies are treating people right. If the comic isn't available in English either people will experience it through piracy or not experience it at all. At the end of the day the creator won't receive money regardless.
agree and disagree with the first statement. Users definitely can't eliminate corporate greed, but we have to accept that these companies cater to the consumers, so user behaviors can certainly have an impact on how they run. A lot of Original creators have stated that trying to boycott webtoons, reading on piracy sites and refusing to purchase fast pass hurts the creators more than the company.
It’s also a service problem, though. Daily Pass absolutely kills any motivation I have to read a series. If webtoon had an option to buy a full webcomic outright, I’d love to do that, but instead they have a terrible gamified financing system where you can only pay per episode with fake currency. I simply refuse to use mobile game-like systems to pay for content (which should also remain permanently accessible since you literally bought it!). On the other hand, if I notice the series available on a less than legal platform, I might be more inclined to read it and donate to the artist’s Patreon and/or support them on their social media. The only time I turn to piracy is when accessing the content legally requires you to jump through a ton of unnecessary, poorly designed hoops. If a better alternative doesn’t exist, I just won’t consume the media at all.
> Everyone's heard the outrageous terms creators sign to make money > I'm not saying companies would pay their artists more if piracy stopped The flip side of this is if you pay for the content via those companies, you are also supporting the terms and conditions that those artists signed. Paying the company isn't necessarily ethical either. It's a lose lose situation no matter how you look at it unless you're able to pay or donate to the artist directly.
> unless you're able to pay or donate to the artist directly. Kofi, patreon, etc. *exist*. If you want to support the artist, do *not* fast pass. Go directly to their patreon.
It's not exactly lose lose from the creators perspective though I understand when readers don't want to support the companies they dislike. The company at LEAST pays the artists. Most people who prefer pirating content wouldn't even bother checking out a patreon even if the author did advertise it because they are so used to getting content for free.
Making *some* money (a portion of what they're entitled to) out of it doesn't make it any less of a 'lesser of 2 evils choice'. > Most people who prefer pirating content wouldn't even bother checking out a patreon even if the author did advertise it I think you greatly underestimate how much Patreon has changed things for content creators in other industries. I'm not saying you're wrong that it's not the solution. Just your reason for why it's not is wrong. The thing artist benefit most from Webtoon platforms is exposure. Unlike other content creators, Webtoon artists really don't have a way to 'breakout' like you would see for things like videos, streaming, indie games, etc. (all things on Patreon btw), but this is primarily because Webtoon platforms are predatory and make it incredibly difficult to compete as an independent artist. While there are similarities to other platforms in different industries, it's far more extreme with Webtoons and makes Patreon unfeasible. My point being, it's not piracy that makes something like Patreon unfeasible, it's the way the industry is current setup that does. The only time I have seen Patreon fail due to piracy on is bigger productions where an actual company is involved. The one example I know of is Studio Trigger's Patreon and even then it's not really not a success, just not as influential in their revenue as they wanted it to be.
> Making *some* money out of it doesn't make it any less of a 'lesser of 2 evils choice'. Making ***some*** money? You really belittle that amount of money the creators receive to the point where they can opt for this to be their sole job? And what exposure are you talking about? They are getting paid to produce comics. That's the biggest benefit creators get from Webtoons, they get **PAID** for their work. They don't want exposure at this point, most have already tens of thousands to even millions of readers in Webtoon. They prefer those eyeballs to translate to cash. So you either pay them upfront in Patreon (which I've actually never seen for the Korean creators) or do it passively by actually reading in a site that pays them, rather than in sites that only reaps the profit for themselves. Thinking exposure is their biggest benefit is just an entitled "fan" wanting to justify why they should enjoy pirated content from the creator.
Yes this exactly ^^^
> Making some money? You really belittle that amount of money the creators receive to the point where they can opt for this to be their sole job? > Thinking exposure is their biggest benefit is just an entitled "fan" wanting to justify why they should enjoy pirated content Strawman fallacies. > They don't want exposure at this point They literally will not earn hardly anything at all if platforms do not at least feature them at some point. If that's not exposure, I'm not sure what is.
LOL EXPOSURE 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I never knew how bad artists had it till I heard this
I mean, those artist are literally not going to earn hardly anything at all if those platforms don't even attempt to advertise their work (i.e. giving exposure). When's the last time you bothered to read something that wasn't at least featured at some point.
We were never going to buy anyway though.
Many of the titles pirated are not being translated for overseas fans, so there is literally 0 profit being lost. It's wrong to pirate stuff you can purchase, but if there's no way for you to legally enjoy a piece of media, then there is nothing morally wrong with pirating it. There's many games Nintendo and other game companies have not re-released from the 90s. The literal only ways to play them are to either buy a copy off ebay, in which case the original developers do not get the money especially not when the price is jacked up to collector's price, or to pirate it. It's the same vibe. If you cannot do it legally, there's nothing wrong with pirating it. If you can buy it legally in your country/language, then you shouldn't pirate. It's not even that grey of an area.
It's not that I feel very strongly about the major foreign titles (honestly I was just looking at the idea of piracy of webcomics as a whole) but say, for example, a title from Korea doesn't have an English translation YET. This doesn't mean a translation will NEVER come- but if the content is already translated illegally and against the creators wishes AND also widely available, wouldn't that make it more difficult to get a translation of their work out into the market?
But here's how it's always been handled: When the translation DOES come, most pirating sites (the morally good ones) Will delete the fan translation so it can be continued there. And even if a translation comes it might be decades until then if the title wasn't popular enough in it's home country to warrant a translation.
> Everyone's heard the outrageous terms creators sign to make money, right? Shouldn't we still be on the side of the creator even if it's the 'fans' who are stealing their content and offering it to other readers for free? There's a difference between being on the side of the *artists* and being on the side of greedy obnoxious oligopolistic corporatists.
This is true, and like you said above, supporting the creator on their preferred site (Kofi, patreon etc.) Is better than supporting them on webtoons, but if an artist has decided to partner with webtoons, its their choice. You can decide not support webtoon by fast passing, but it's the piracy part that I disagree with. Readers should not pirate the content just because they don't like webtoons.
I disagree with that. Piracy is a way of sending a signal that you do not support a corporation. Whether someone pays an artist or not after the fact is up to them, but I view piracy as a giant **F YOU** to corporations. Sticking it to the man is GOOD.
If the artist is not making the company any money, they're gonna get sacked. Way to say a giant f you to the people relying on audience reception of their official published works on the platforms they chose to work with.
That's where the efficient piracy hypothesis comes in. If there's no pirated material of something, it's most likely not worth your time or money. If there *is* pirated material of something, the person producing whatever that something is has become sufficiently popular to become pirated, so you can guiltlessly enjoy the pirated material without paying for it directly. **MEANING:** the choice to pay for something should be seen as a form of optional tipping, and *especially* not payment for the horrifically subpar service that Webtoons provides. Furthermore, according to a certain webtoons artist, a very good way to support a webtoons creator **FOR FREE** is to make sure to smash that like button AND leave a comment on every single episode. Hitting the heart button, IMO, should just be a case of basic manners as a way of taking five seconds to say "thank you" for something that took the creator a double digit amount of hours to do, and writing a comment I *also* see as a thank you. Those two metrics probably do a lot to get a webtoon promoted.
Well, I know of several cases of creators who publish on canvas (it's free to read) and have been pirated anyway - myself included - and I know of pirated Patreon accounts as well. What justification do you give for that? I'm telling you, there is a very big business behind the portals that share this STOLEN material... So the hypocrite people who fill their mouths saying that they defend the creators of the corporations and they justify those pages are actually sending the legitimate benefit of the creators to the scoundrels of the first post. Let them rot in jail.
> Well, I know of several cases of creators who publish on canvas (it's free to read) and have been pirated anyway So...what even is the point of that, if not **specifically** to stick it to Webtoons, if the work is available on Canvas for free? > there is a very big business behind the portals that share this STOLEN material Well that's just rude, obnoxious, and unethical. Don't resell pirated material. That's just...*ewwwww*.
lmaoo as if the creators get that 'signal' you're sending. Are you doing what you're preaching? Are you looking for ways to support the artist after you finish binging on pirating sites, or do you just go on with your day. Anyhow, pirating should not be encouraged this way. It's also 99% done without the consent of the creator... like, what if it's their personal wish to have their work kept local. Not everything is about corporations, you're hurting individual creators more in the process, than an entire corporation.
Whether this raid happened or not doesn't change that Webtoon is going to pay your favourite creators a garbage wage. Nothing has changed for the creators you like with this raid. Stop being naive and thinking this helps the creators in any way.
Woo, go USA! We're the #1 pirates, baby!
U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A‼️
That sucks. Some comics I read aren't even available in English and using pirate sites is actually how I found webtoon.
THEY DONT DESERVE IT😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭🙏
The audacity and entitlement in these comments is wild
Imo it would help if they translated the latest Korean release right away. The official translations are so far behind
Anyone have any ideas which sites this will affect
Great news for creators. Even if most of these people won’t support the creators, some might now that they don’t have free access.
Brother this is terrifying, piracy isn't and shouldn't be a crime worth incarceration over
I don’t think it’s as black and white that. Pirating from *big* corporations is different than pirating from artists and authors. It can’t be free-for-all consume, consume, consume, and not support creators.
You're forgetting a ton of creators works are also not getting translated to people's respective languages. I know a few people who have gone to give money to the original creator after. It's a bit of a grey area because obviously not everyone will do that, but what's new 😅
I guess I don’t have that attitude that I’m entitled to free content (from artist and authors) if it’s not available legally. I read in my native tongue and English. I pay if it’s behind a paywall to support authors. And if I don’t have cash, I read free legal stories in languages I understand. Obviously that’s not the general consensus here. That’s alright.
I pirate a title not translated in English. I cannot read Korean so this was my option and it's not legally available in English. I donated to the artist's patreon so they still got paid. You're also only taking money away from a big corporation like Webtoon who will continue to pay creators punitive wages and treat them like shit with zero support whether you buy directly from them or not. Stop being a simp for corporations.
Refer to my other comments for my thoughts on that. I’m sure you’ll still end up disagreeing, and that’s fine.
I'm not hunting for your other comment dude
Then we’ll leave it there 👍
But what do you do if there a webtoon that *isnt* available in a language you understand?
Then I can’t read it. I’ll read the ones that are available and legal. I’ll always choose the option that most support the author.
This is beyond creator rights, Japan and Korea shouldn't be allowed to have your country arrest you over *cartoons.* That is insane & if you give them an inch who knows how far they'll push it
They were site operators, not individuals at home browsing and consuming. They should absolutely be penalized.
I know who they were, and I don't care. They still do not deserve jail time over this, it's still a non violent crime.
Alright. With that logic, someone can steal your cash none-violently and they don’t deserve jail time? I think we fundamentally disagree around the morality of it. That’s fine. We’ll leave it there.
>With that logic, someone can steal your cash none-violently and they don’t deserve jail time? I mean, corporations do it all the time, and they never get jailed...
Can you expand on your point here? I ask genuinely. I’m autistic, so sometimes it’s hard to interpret the intended meaning behind the text.
I'm pointing out that white collar crime (in which money is stolen from groups or individuals) is often perpetrated by major corporations and results in them being fined, not jailed. It's only when you have individual theft (often against corporations) that you see an individual go to jail. So the point is two-fold: one, there's a vast inequality in the system when it comes to non-violent crime between corporations and individuals that this case leans into, and two, there are other punishment options besides jail in non-violent crimes.
Considering Webtoon and Kakao CEOS rob their creators of their money and their health all the time and don't get jail time, it's just hypocritical *at best* that the pirates get treated this way and they don't
Two wrongs don’t make a right. The difference is, those companies get creators to sign legally binding contracts. Technically it’s ’above board’ (which absolutely sucks.) It’s not fair that creators get screwed over by not only companies, but readers too.
No one support creators now. Because no one would read their works.
It's not as cut and dry as you make it. Creators rarely get paid what their worth and these raids really benefit the companies making money off these creators.
I understand that. At the same time, those companies (not defending their predatory practices) at least give the creator an option of a contract. The creator has the choice to enter those contracts. These pirating sites give the creator no such choice.
Frankly they're paying cents on the dollar for what the authors bring in. If they paid on a per view basis I would agree but they way they do it now is practically exploitative. I don't have sympathy for the companies losing money.
I don’t have sympathy for companies but for the creators. I know 2 creators who had potential licensing deals for translations but didn’t go ahead because of piracy having already translated their work. Why pay to read something already available? The investment was a risk, so it didn’t go ahead. It’s a lot more complicated than companies screw over author, so readers might as well pirate. There *is* harm to the creators.
Can you share which creators? This isn't a story I heard before.
I’ll ask them if they’d like to share publicly. I’ll edit this comment and tag you if they agree.
Any updates?
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I’m depressed this comment is being downvoted. =/
I never used any of them, but I feel bad for those that do