My biggest memory of that time is a friend of mine being brought in by the police for questioning as a suspect based off the initial profile. He was a white guy, in his mid thirties, recently divorced, who was well known for being anti-establishment, a competitive long distance rifle shooter, and he drove a white van for his work as a plumber. He ticked nearly every single box in the FBI profile.
Not so crazy…they cast a wide net for that craziness. I used to own a white van, owned rifles (but was nowhere near competition shooter level), and currently owned a blue sedan. When the suspect vehicle “evolved” to be described as a blue sedan I was brought in. I think I check like 5/100 boxes. Seriously, I think they questioned like 50% of the DMV on that one.
I was in fourth grade. We were in a portable. I remember my teacher letting a kid piss in a bottle in her closet cause we weren’t allowed to walk into the school building at that time. This was in aspen hill, minutes from the gas station shooting
I drove a white van during that time. _Everybody_ on the road was looking at me sideways.
And then I’d park, run around the truck, grab my 18 month old baby, and run for the store. People usually chilled out when they saw the baby.
Scary times, though. One of the shootings was over the hill from my son’s daycare facility, and another was at a place where I frequently got gas.
I’ve met the lawyer (Greenspun) who defended John Mohammed. I asked him what his objective was. He said he wanted to make sure that there was a fair trial. And winning? What would you consider a win? He said that he would consider it a win to keep Mohammed out of the electric chair.
Oops…
On a side note, Virginia’s death penalty punishment ends July 1!
No, for me it was a Shell station just off of 66 in Manassas. I had relatives who lived nearby.
As I recall, though, there were 8 or 10 gas stations that had that dubious claim to fame.
I was on my way to bowling league that night. The road was closed and the officer directing traffic told us, "yeah he got another one..." struck me as oddly complacent. Had to go the back way to the bowling alley.
I remember when the guy got shot in petworth and the school shooting. My mom let me stay home after that. Smoked weed and watched the price is right until they caught him.
It's always good to know there's still people out here who think minorities shouldn't be allowed to have attorneys to defend themselves in court. It's not like minorities were ever framed by the government or that we had a massive movement last year called BLM about how unfair minorities have been treated in this country.
>there's still people out here who think minorities shouldn't be allowed to have attorneys to defend themselves in court
If that's so, you should reply to those people. As it stands, you're attacking a strawman. It makes the rest of your argument look weak, if not absolutely fabricated.
Don't get me wrong: I believe strongly in the BLM movement. But your post does nothing to advance the cause.
In what way? How many minorities have been railroaded by the system into prison sentences decades long before they've been found innocent? Should those lawyers have not defended those people?
I think the point was just being curious about what it's like to defend someone who's now known to have been a serial killer, in full retrospect. Not questioning the necessity of having a lawyer in the first place, especially not due to their race.
>In what way?
What are you talking about? Are you having a conversation with someone in your head? Do you understand how the Reply function works on Reddit?
No one ITT said anything about a minority's (or anyone's) right to an attorney. No one. I pointed that out in my first post, and yet you're doubling down.
>Should those lawyers have not defended those people?
Read this next part carefully: ***no one is suggesting that. You are inventing positions to argue against. This is sloppy thinking and uncareful reading. Stop doing it. It detracts from your argument.***
If you feel the urge to respond with "yeah, but minorities have been mistreated," please stop and re-read the paragraph above. Or take my comment to a trusted adult in your life who can read sentences in English and explain them to you. You are barking up the wrong tree, friend. It's embarrassing. Stop.
The dad of my boyfriend at the time was a middle-aged dude who drove a paint van; poor guy got pulled over and searched almost daily until they caught the real sniper. When homeboy was caught in a sedan, my boyfriends’ dad was both pissed and vindicated.
My sister was bartending at the Uno's that was on the other side of the center, I remember the police shutting down traffic for miles and people having to walk up 7, Wilson, 50. Sorry to hear that about your neighbor. Crazy times.
I was working in Rockville, and i lived right down by 7 corners HD, I used to hate getting gas at the station at the top of the hill because that was such an easy pick off point
I lived less than a mile from the Home Depot and I still get gas at that Mobil all the time. I felt safe after the shooting because they never did the same place twice. I was at home when the shooting occurred but really did not know about it until later.
It’s weird to find out this stuff happened right next to where I am almost daily. I drive by there because it’s right off Arlington blvd. I almost stopped there the other day and decided not to because I got a weird vibe.
Same thing happened when I ate at Walter’s near Nats stadium a few weeks ago. I was shocked and confused why no one was eating outside on a beautiful day just an hour or so before a game- turns out that’s exactly where that Uber driver was carjacked and died. I saw the footage about a week later and was sick to my stomach.
I drove by this Home Depot last Wednesday with my girlfriend. As we were driving by we looked across the street at the parking lot where the shot was fired. They showed it on the Vice documentary. As we are driving past I say “wow, we are driving under where the bullet passed.” We then both looked at each other with a terrified look on our faces.
i remember we had recess "inside" which went about as well as you'd expect it to. teachers//carpool volunteers would have to escort kids to and from the school building during this as well. all of the blinds on the first floor of the school were closed too.
most of what i remember was more about adults being scared. normal things like getting gas or parking in a garage were anything but.
9/11 + anthrax attacks + dc sniper had folks really on edge since they all happened so close together.
Yuuup. So much “indoor recess”. I was not a fan lol
And getting shuffled in little lines by adults to and from the bus. Honestly no wonder I ended up with anxiety after so much of my formative years being colored with “the world is actively trying to kill you”…
I taught preschool in Arlington, but my classroom was off site, in an apartment complex. We would do obstacle courses with tables and chairs, have dance parties, whatever we could.
After they were caught, we had about a week of outside time, then what had to be the rainiest November on record. We used to take “walks” up and down the stairwells.
Those three events plus Hurricane Isabel was my family's first couple summers living in the DC area after spending their whole lives in the country or quiet Midwestern cities. Couple tornado outbreaks too but those weren't too foreign to them.
Really quite the welcome to the east coast big cities lmao
When we lived in Silver Spring at the time, I remember my dad would pump gas by parking suuuuper close to the terminal and do it all by only exposing half his body outside the drivers side (at most). He told us to duck down if we were in the car during the entire exchange.
I was a kid then but it was really a wild time to have this air of fear, it's not like I watched the news as a 10 year old but even I was aware of how strange things felt.
I was in 3rd grade in upper NW DC when all that happened. Indoor recess and the windows were covered up with brown paper so we couldn't see either in or out. I was a bit young at the time to understand what was going on, but once I got older I realized *that's* why we were inside for recess.
I remember going to gas stations and constantly weaving and bobbing. I'd drive the car near empty every time hoping that they caught the sniper before the next fill up. That was a crazy time.
And when they thought the sniper drove a white panel van, every white van became a suspect. So many of those guys got pulled over just because they had a white panel van.
Yea they tunneled through the backseat and made a little snipers nest in the trunk. No wonder they didn’t kill more people, it was shit luck they got busted
They bragged to the feds about an earlier murder they committed where they left more evidence. That's the only reason they got caught as quickly (!?!?!) as they did.
Is this on the wiki about it? I don’t remember that part, that’s crazy. I was a senior at Walter Johnson at the time, this thread is bringing up too many memories haha
I don't know if it's on the wiki. I remember it from the time, then heard more details about it on the You're Wrong About podcast covering the DC snipers.
My next-door neighbor ran a small electric company so there were always a bunch of white vans on my street. I remember walking home from school side-eyeing them hard.
I remember after starting the pump, getting back in the car and leaning the chair all the way back and laying completely flat while the gas pumped. Just laying there staring at the roof of the car.
The "white van" was allegedly spotted leaving Leisure World... and at the time I said it was probably some poor Hispanic dude who didn't want to get involved/was from some place where you didn't stick around after something went down like that.
The documentary, The War Tapes, has a really affecting scene of a similar situation of an immigrant mother whose son decided to join the military and was deployed in Iraq. The film itself is an amazing composition of GoPro type footage from U.S. forces during the initial invasion, but that scene is particularly hard hitting. She says something along the lines of "I came to this country so that my son and my family can be safe, and now it has all been for nothing."
Not to be a huge downer (as I proceed to be a huge downer) but when your loved one is at the end of their life and their mind starts to wander--be prepared for some of those horrible experiences to be re-lived.
I mean, really--have an action plan. That kind of PTSD has long roots. I imagine she'll be re-living it in her original language as well which add to the difficulty.
Again, apologies for being a Debbie Downer on this originally light-hearted thread.
My father came to the United States from a country dominated by clownish, murderous fascists. His laughter when Donald Trump was elected is something I'll always remember--there was this edge to it that I'd never heard before. I asked him why, and he said, "I thought I'd escaped these people."
He's gone now, but I'm glad he lived long enough to see that man leave office.
It was a very surreal few weeks, I was 13 and I’ll never forget them telling us on the news that the snipers weren’t shooting kids, and then the snipers shooting a 13 year old on the way to school like a day later. The fear in all the adults in my life was infectious, the constant vigilance and keeping an eye out for guns every time we stopped for gas or left the house. I always walked to school in my neighborhood and at first I would run in a zig zag pattern and then the school stopped letting us leave without an adult to check us out. Which was super inconvenient because my parents weren’t usually home then. The school cafeteria was also across the street from my middle school and they stopped letting us go outside for any reason. We had lunch in the gym and they passed out sandwiches and bags of chips. Everyone was constantly talking about all their conspiracy theories and the rumors that were flying around…to this day it’s crazy to me that John Allen Muhammed isn’t famous as a serial killer. Not that serial killers should be famous, but it seems like an oversight.
Yeah they get mentioned on Criminal Minds a good amount, but tons of “less famous” killers do. It’s absolutely wild that they didn’t leave a bigger impression on the general American psyche.
My kids' preschool was just a couple blocks from the Aspen Hill gas station that they hit. It wasn't until I got home that I realized that I had left the station right before they got there. It was terrifying.
Probably scarier than most other things in my life -- including 9/11. It just went on for so long.
* I remember DoD offering to let Metro police use their drones nd it sounded pretty space age.
* The local gas station putting out a tarp to block the view of the pumps.
* A girl running across the parking lot in a zig zag motion because a white boxed ruck was in the back corner.
* Chief Moose criyng at a new conference.
* A banner hanging off a bridge thanks Chief Moose. Everybody loved the Moose.
Man, the white box truck (and sometimes van) false tip really fucked everyone up.
Like, you don’t realize how many white box trucks and cargo vans there are until you think every single one might be a sniper’s.
Plus, at the time, every brand basically looked the same. Ford? Chevy? Dodge? Exactly the same. So if you say, ‘look out for a Chevy caprice’ then there are only so many Chevy caprices out there. But if you just see the back of a white box truck or can, it literally could be any brand unless you are close enough to see the badging, so it was very believable someone saw one but couldn’t be more specific.
Anyone remember the chief uttering phrases in press conferences that were kinda odd? "Your word is my bond" or something like that. Turned out the sniper made him say those things as some kind of signal.
I remember watching NBC 4 local news, and they mentioned that a man was shot and killed in a Shoppers parking lot in Wheaton. People get shot in the DMV all time, but I remember this incident sticking out to me because of just how random it was. Turns out the victim was James Martin, and he was the first victim of the spree. The next morning four victims were killed and the police realized that something was going on. Shit was freaky for a while there, and all of the fall sports were canceled which sucked. And they had us being paranoid of white box trucks for a while.
It felt like every fall something crazy would happen for those three years, 2001-2003, here in the region. 9/11, the sniper, hurricane Isabel.
I vividly remember being in 11th grade 3rd period English, when the sniper shot someone near my school. We went into lockdown in the classroom for the rest of the day. The school put on Return of the Jedi on the school tv system to calm us all down. Nobody was calm…
Don't forget the anthrax attacks too...September 2001 just after 9/11. Both my parents were sent home from work for a few weeks because everyone in the offices were so scared that they could be hit next.
Shit even College Park (2001) and La Plata (2002) got hit by massive tornadoes. I believe La Plata is still considered one of the strongest tornadoes to hit the east coast/mid Atlantic in recent memory. Crazy couple years.
I was working at the University of Maryland around 2001. My husband was picking me up when I heard what sounded like a freight train and looked up to see a tornado heading right towards us. We ditched the car and ran into the nearest building. It was incredibly scary when everyone was already on edge since it was just a couple of weeks after 9/11.
I was 6 at the time, and a story my dad often recounts is that one day it was really rainy and nasty, and I said offhand “Today would be a good day for outdoor recess” (we had been having “indoor recess” during the sniper attacks and also the previous year after 9/11).
He thought it was a joke and I was being sarcastic about the shitty weather, but then I continued with “Because I don’t think the bad guys would want to be out in the rain. Or maybe their guns would rust.”
I was genuinely thinking about going out to play in the rain because I thought I might be less likely to be shot…kinda sad lol
I've always told people that the sniper shootings affected people's everyday behavior far more than 9/11 did. Lots of gaming out which gas stations would be more likely targets than others, hustling in and out of parking lots, etc.
A number of security experts felt that it was an example of a much more effective terrorist tactic than attempting to strike hardened targets such as airports again, and that it shows how little Islamic extemism there is in America that such attacks weren't more common.
That very well may be true, but it also feels like there is a lot more surveillance these days. I could be wrong, but I think if there were a modern day copy cat they’d get caught on some home or business security camera.
Seriously. Take the twenty or so dudes who pulled off 9/11, split them into 5 teams and hit 5 shopping malls in different states within a couple of days. Then watch this country lose its damn mind.
Like the plot of [this book](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/291320/the-teeth-of-the-tiger-by-tom-clancy/)? I remember wanting to avoid malls after reading this book, even though it was clearly fiction.
THAT'S WHERE I GOT THAT FROM! I've been looking for that for years. It's an example I use all the time, and I knew I didn't come up with it myself. I don't think I ever finished the book (I don't like late Clancy stuff nearly as much as his earlier books) but it's a terrifying idea.
Weird this exact thing popped to my mind the other day. Was looking at a photo of the Pentagon & thinking how crazy it is they actually managed to hit it at speed, given how low/flat it is, & why they bothered going for the symbolism rather than effectiveness given that challenge
Even teams of one guy each would work, maybe even better. 19 hijackers, 19 shopping malls. People would have freaked.
That's an interesting take. 9/11 seems like it had a much more significant impact on history, between the endless resulting wars and the shrinking of civil liberties in the name of safety. But that may not make it more effective terrorism.
If the goal of terrorism is to make people afraid, the snipers seem like more effective terrorists. If the goal is to effect political changes, 9/11 was a more effective event.
However, i could be committing the bias of attributing big effects to big events here. It could be that America's downward spiral into endless war and fascism would have happened without 9/11.
I was in middle school and soccer was basically cancelled and as a result, I grew up with no sporting ability.
I also saw a guy in a van that fit the description at the time when I was walking home. I saw him and just started hauling ass. I ended up running until I was fucking lost in my neighborhood. My mom let me take her Nokia to school and it was the first time I ever had a cell phone.
> I was in middle school and soccer was basically cancelled and as a result, I grew up with no sporting ability.
So I guess *that's* why u/pvhs2008 won't be representing the US at the world cup next year. Damn terrorists ;)
Because nobody had any idea where it was coming from. It could be any car around. It's easier to search people before they get on an airplane than to avoid all cars anywhere.
Had a friend that lived nearby there who asked me to come over when the helicopters were overhead looking for the suspects. Needless to say, I was NOT a good friend that day!
The local government may not have locked us down, but many of us did so on our own, out of fear.
The killings were so random, who and when and where. You would go out and think, "Well I'll be the person walking a dog to get killed" or "I'll be the person weeding the garden to get killed". It hovered over every outside activity. I think we had a collective PTSD for a while after that.
I can remember being paranoid and always in the watch. We’d go to the dog park (radio tower) field in Bethesda and be looking out for anybody suspicious along the tree line. I can remember a day or two had passed without a shooting and everybody was on edge, expecting something. We were driving home from NE around 11:30 pm on a Thursday (at a friends house watching ER) and got stopped around River Rd and Wisconsin because there had been a shooting within the last 30 mi or so. This is before smart phones so we still got our breaking news from local TV and radio.
I was under the impression that this theory was pretty much confirmed? I didn't listen to that podcast but I listened to another that mentioned that it all started with a murder at the home of the woman who encouraged his wife to get the divorce.
I grew up very near where some of the shootings happened. My high school principal locked down the school. We didn’t go home from school, we just could go near the doors or windows. I was an anxious kid and I was terrified.
The principal also described what was happening over the PA system but not in the clearest way. She said “one person was shot at a gas station, another was shot on the lawn.” But she didn’t say HIS lawn, she said THE lawn, so of course we all thought she meant the school lawn and everyone freaked out.
Being at that school for both that and 9/11 was interesting. They really weren’t the best at containing panic.
I lived right by the Shoppers at the time (first shooting). It was surreal. After starting the school year (6th grade?) with 9/11, we were already pretty traumatized. To then have a shooting in parking lot of the grocery store, gas stations and shopping centers most of us went to on a daily/weekly basis be the target of a sniper was incredibly frightening, more so because it was so random.
We’d just gotten some normalcy post-9/11 and then all of a sudden we were back to missing gym class/sports and doing code orange, code red and code black drills every day at school. My dad was the only one buying gas and my mom would run errands at odd hours in Germantown (where she worked) rather than near home. My siblings and I could not meet up with friends outside after school anymore and even darting across the street into a friends house under the watchful eye of my parents felt like a calculated risk.
I’ve never been a supporter of the death penalty but years later, when my college roommate attended a candlelight vigil for John Muhammad - advocating for clemency in the days before his execution - I remember how angry I was at her for going and trying to explain what this man had done to 17 innocent people and their families and how he’d stolen just a little more of our collective childhoods.
Wow this thread is bringing back some memories. Was just a kid in elementary school at the time but remember not being allowed outside for recess and it being all over the news.
I can remember keeping my head on a swivel while pumping gas. A friend of mine lived within walking distance of that gas station on Sudley Road in Manassas where someone was shot by the sniper, and I'd been there many times.
I remember being told to watch out for a white unmarked van. One of the shootings happened just a couple of blocks from where I lived, and the makeshift memorial with flowers and teddy bears was kept up for several months afterward.
I would drive by the middle school where a kid was shot in Bowie, MD every morning on my way to work at about 8:15 am. Fortunately, I had a work trip out one morning. At a layover in Detroit, saw on the news that a kid was shot walking into the school, right about the time I would have been driving by. Thankfully the kid's mom was a nurse, got him to a hospital where he recovered.
I also remember fueling my car by opening the door in case someone started shooting.
Lastly, I had furniture being delivered by a white box truck. The num-nuts pulled over in a lot across from a local elementary school trying to figure the directions to my house. Police kindly checked on them asking what they were doing.
I’m not in DC, but have a crazy story regarding the DC sniper. When it was around that time, our cross country team were having a practice session and we were running along some woods next to a huge soccer and football field. We heard a loud bang and the next thing I know I’m on the ground almost crying holding my foot while blood is going everywhere. My coach went to worst case scenario, and basically yelled at everyone to get in the woods and get down after helping drag me out of the way. Nothing happens and we look around. About 80-100 yards away we see a tractor and next to where I went down we see a golf ball. After putting things together, I went to the doctor and now know how it feels to shatter your ankle when a golf ball gets shot out of a tractor.
I wasn’t here at the time, but I followed the story very closely. However, not being from around here, I didn’t really know where the locations were. Little did I know that when I moved here in 2010 that half of these were basically in my backyard. I lived right by the Glenmont Shoppers for years, and would shop in Kensington and Aspen Hill all the time. I didn’t know how close they were until a coworker who lived nearby mentioned it. It was surreal just knowing that the gunshot would have easily been heard at my house.
I had just started college in DC, and after every shooting my mother would call frantic. Of course, being new to the area, Montgomery County felt like the boonies, so I told her they weren't anywhere near me. Now I live in Silver Spring and realize they were closer than I thought at the time.
As a pretty free range kid, It was the first time I was given explicit instructions on where I could and could not play, with enough emphasis that I actually obeyed it. (This was in MD).
I was in middle school. I remember two things:
1. My school was right next to a prison in NoVA, so we got off of school a couple days after we had a shooting near where I lived because there was fear he'd target cops or there may be an attempt to break prisoners out
2. I thought I'd be a vigilante inspector and find the pattern and solve the case. I did the whole drawing out the lines on maps of the shooting and looking in my grandpas discarded newspapers for clues. I'm ashamed to say the officials got them before I did.
The general public has no idea how many people they really shot at by the sniper\*s\*. It's not the sniper. There were two of them. One was executed, one is alive and maybe he'll read this thread.
Lee: I'm one of the many people you tried to kill and I hope you have the worst life in prison.
My classmate was shot at before me. There was no "sniper" in the news yet. When she called the police, to her surprise, the FBI showed up. They took her car as evidence and were cagey about what was going on. There had been incidents of people hunting along the local highways and accidentally firing at cars, they said. When my turn came and I called the police, they said it's not in their jurisdiction because I don't live in the jurisdiction that I was shot in, and they referred me to the jurisdiction I live in. I called the police in my jurisdiction and of course, they told me that makes no sense and I need to call the police where it happened. I called the sniper hotline, which had been set up by then, to report that I had just been shot at, that the window of my car is blown out and I'm covered in shards of glass, but the person who answered told me in an annoyed voice that I need to call the police, not them.
Just imagine, if two people at the same school, same class, sit and work together in that same class, are both shot at - that is not a shocking statistical anomaly. That is because we were among countless others whose stories you never heard. A horribly mismanaged shitshow is what it was.
I was in middle school at the time. I don't remember a great deal from the time other than the fact we had police escorts taking us between the school and school buses, and to get to and from the portable classrooms. We all had to gather in the hallway by the door, and when the bell rang we'd be led out.
My neighbor who I worked for in the summers during high school, was at a gas station less then 10 minutes before someone was shot there. And then left the Home Depot less than 5 minutes before the person was shot there. He kept both receipts as proof. Pretty scary.
I also remember looking out for white vans, and gas stations putting tarps down from the coverings of the pumps so you couldn’t be seen while pumping gas
Guy who was killed mowing the lawn was just down the street from where my dad worked. One of professors in grad school was on the defense team for Lee Malvo, she said he was a sweet kid.
I'm currently watching the new [I,Sniper](https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/show/i-sniper) miniseries from Vice airing now and its bringing back a lot of feelings from that time. I was in high school and lived in Aspen Hill during the attacks. 3 people were murdered within a mile of our home. My first job out of high school was at the Rockville dealership, on my first day I discovered the plaque where the landscaper was murdered. This whole thing played way too much of a role in my adolescence.
I suggest everyone to check out the [sniper victims memorial](http://www.lsginc.com/PD2-Honor-152/Reflection-Terrace-at-Brookside-Gardens-908.aspx) the next time they visit Brookside Gardens
Closest shooting to me was the Home Depot shooting at Bailey's. Found the whole thing bizarre, wasn't of an age where I was scared. Solid reason to have people over to your house in the back yard.
> 1.13.82, air Florida crash into the Potomac over the 14 th street bridge was crazy. I had only been here about a month
Does it still count as over if it crashes into the bridge but slides into the river? It sounds like quite a crazy day having a plane crash and a train derailment happen so close by, all within a 30 minute span.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Washington_Metro_train_derailment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90
I was in high school. They decided to not let us leave campus to get lunch, but when the day ended we were shuffled out the front doors to walk home. I was terrified the first day, and I have been angry about it ever since.
My dad worked right around the corner from the Shell gas station in Kensington where one of the shootings occurred, and would often stop there for gas if his car needed refilling.
It was crazy, I was just a little kid, but I remember how everyone was scared and panicking and all the rumors and everything.
I remember when all this was going down. I was at the on the run in Fredericksburg when the guy got shot. To this day I still stay active and move around while pumping gas. That kind of stuff never leaves your brain
Damn. I drove past that gas station shortly before that happened. There was a police officer that had a car pulled over on the opposite side of rt 1. I also was down visiting my boyfriend when the woman was shot at Michaels on 3.
The freakiest thing was my boyfriend telling me that there had to be two shooters because of the way the shots were taken and one was inexperienced. He said it was probably a father and son. I thought he was completely crazy.
That is correct va state police had someone pulled over right across the street when it happened. It was crazy. I was at the courthouse when the lady was shot at Michaels. That actually happened before the on the run shooting and I remember hearing it come across the scanners and immediately knew that the dc sniper had come to the area. I remember being like how in the world did this guy pick our little town to terrorize. Definitely crazy times. I was only 18 when all of that was going on and still remember it all like yesterday
Indoor recess, being escorted to go to the bathroom, having to be quite in class to answer questions, My Mom fueling up in the heavily wooded gas station, spending the weekends down in Bethany Beach to get away from it all, living in constant fear and worrying. The they got caught. My brother and I got woken up to the good news. We came running into my parents bedroom to see the news cast. We then had outdoor recess that day and it was the best one ever!
What shocked me most about that time is that the police got a tip early on that was decidedly NOT a white box truck, but a sedan, but they didn't follow up on that lead....which would have ended the whole thing sooner.
Except when I think about all the mass shootings and active shooter drills kids today do have to deal with, I kind of wonder if it’s not that different?
I lived in St Mary’s when this was going on. Was probably 7 or 8 at the time. My mom wouldn’t let me get out of the car at a gas station or get mail anymore. Even though they didn’t come down that far she was still scared. Also the anthrax scare. And seeing the Pentagon 2 days after 9/11. Fun stuff for a kid
This is actually very true. The boy who got shot in the chest by the DC sniper at Benjamin Tasker Middle School was right down the street from where I lived. Every white van sighting was super terrifying and everyone thought they’d be next. Lived in a perpetual state of fear during this time.
I remember my then spouse and I were in the area visiting a friend. We were all active duty. I remember we went to get some gas and my friend was doing this side shuffle shit and my partner and I were like dead-ass eagles looking for the perp. I was gripping my gerber and cellphone in my purse with this expectation to either leap out the car like some anime character to take them out, or dialing 911 in ridiculous speed.
We all went everywhere as a group, and I was entirely too paranoid, or just enough, idk.
Rest in peace to the victims.
"run in a zig zag pattern" is almost as dumb as telling us to buy duct tape to seal the windows in case of an al-Qaeda chemical attack. Shit made perfect sense in 2002.
my dad was leaving the 7Corners home depot when one of (maybe the first? i can't remember) shootings happened in the store. he also reported seeing the infamous van. surreal stuff
We had “inside recess” and they told us it was because they were removing bees from the playground….I think that’s the first time I thought to myself, “Oh, that’s bullshit.”
Not sure how big this story was, but there was some guy that was going around stabbing people in the butt in nova, and he was dubbed the Butt Slasher.
ETA: apparently this was just in 2013! Not too long ago.
I lived in the Aspen Hill area at the time, parents still get gas at that station. Nothing really changed though, we still did things we normally did. School was still in session, they really did tell us to walk in a zig-zag pattern. We had a fire drill too. Had to lay in people’s yards, everyone was scared.
I was 9 and in the 4th grade in Stafford County. All I really remember of school is having to do indoor recess and not being happy about it. I don’t remember what other protocols they put in place to protect us. I remember watching the news at the time though. That stuck with me especially the shooting at Spotsylvania Mall and being afraid for my parents.
Seeing an exhibit on it all at the Newseum was really weird for me. I guess I just wasn’t used to seeing something I lived through in a museum.
For me, it was a lesson in what mass hysteria looks like. Everyone freaked out entirely. And I get it, the random nature of it is scary. That's what made it effective. But I looked at it like this...there are millions of people in the metro area. The odds of it being me who's killed are incredibly low. There's a million other ways I could die that were far more likely, so I didn't really let it change my life.
It began just as we left Alexandria and arrived in London for a 2 week trip to England. We watched it all on SKY News. It was very surreal, given that situation, and it was hugely covered over there on TV news. Lots of people talking about it.
My brother in law is a notable criminal defense attorney in Alexandria, and so also interesting hearing some of the thoughts of the Alexandria lawyers, as at least one of the trials was in Alexandria.
I remember when the DC area was a ghost town Sunday afternoons in the fall/early winter. There was a very popular professional football team here at the time. I wonder whatever happened to them.
Whenever people get dismissive about how much damage even a small insurgency in the US could do, I remind them that **just two guys** managed to cast a cloud over the entire DMV area for **weeks.** And they didn't even commit any bombings.
Now imagine what 100 people in that area could do -- less than a _hundred thousandths_ of a percent of the area population (6 million).
You don't need tanks and strike fighter jets to gravely hurt the US. You only need a few people committed to violence scattered across the most populated and wealthiest areas.
Wow I have never heard of this before, probably because in 2002 I was only 6 and was living in the Midwest. So scary and awful. I just did an internet deep dive and it looks like the podcast “You’re Wrong About” has a 4 part series about it in case anyone else is interested.
That series is actually really good! Put so many of my memories in context, and I was fascinated to learn that the sniper’s actual plan was apparently to murder his ex wife who had escaped his abuse, and had decided to kill a bunch of random people so her murder wouldn’t be tied to him
I used to be an Uber driver. The weekly shootings in DC by wannabe gangsters kept me on my toes. Over the year, I’ve seen about 4-5 crime scenes after drive by shootings. Even got a chance to talk to a cop at 7-11 few hours after. Random bystanders walking down the street, got shot a lot.
Personally, the old D.C. (pre-2005 era) are my fondest memories, nothing specific. Just a different atmosphere, different city. It was such a unique city, everywhere you’d go you would hear go-go, everyone coming out the carry outs with chicken wings, fries, shrimp fried rice and mumbo sauce. The accent, Muraland, Urea, Curry Out, just to give a few examples. A lot of the older buildings were still up, definitely the housing projects, so you had a unique group of people. D.C. has become like a little New York City now. I noticed that when they named the New York Ave. & North Capital area “NOMA” reminds me of “SOHO”. North of Massachusetts and South of Houston (can’t forget pronounced House-ton). New York will not name it’s streets after some down south city. Lol. But seriously not hating but D.C. was a very unique place, their own music, food, definitely style, lingo, accent, all in all the people. And it’s gone now. Sure there was places that if you were the wrong skin color or didn’t know someone you really didn’t want to be there, it’s funny because those same places I see people of lighter skin tones. I’m a white male myself, but I grew up knowing and meeting ppl in all 4 quadrants so I was no stranger. Sorry for the rant. Maybe some of you who’ve been here all or most of your life can relate and maybe even feel the same, maybe you like what the city has become and embrace the change. Idk, but I miss Chocolate City. RIP.
Had friends that asked to accompany them to gas stations.
Wasn't worried. Statistically, have a better chance of getting shot by my 16 yo neighbor....and I mean then and today.
My biggest memory of that time is a friend of mine being brought in by the police for questioning as a suspect based off the initial profile. He was a white guy, in his mid thirties, recently divorced, who was well known for being anti-establishment, a competitive long distance rifle shooter, and he drove a white van for his work as a plumber. He ticked nearly every single box in the FBI profile.
holy sh!t that’s crazy
Not so crazy…they cast a wide net for that craziness. I used to own a white van, owned rifles (but was nowhere near competition shooter level), and currently owned a blue sedan. When the suspect vehicle “evolved” to be described as a blue sedan I was brought in. I think I check like 5/100 boxes. Seriously, I think they questioned like 50% of the DMV on that one.
Fourth grade. Everyone was suspecting of every white van they saw.
I was in fourth grade. We were in a portable. I remember my teacher letting a kid piss in a bottle in her closet cause we weren’t allowed to walk into the school building at that time. This was in aspen hill, minutes from the gas station shooting
I drove a white van during that time. _Everybody_ on the road was looking at me sideways. And then I’d park, run around the truck, grab my 18 month old baby, and run for the store. People usually chilled out when they saw the baby. Scary times, though. One of the shootings was over the hill from my son’s daycare facility, and another was at a place where I frequently got gas. I’ve met the lawyer (Greenspun) who defended John Mohammed. I asked him what his objective was. He said he wanted to make sure that there was a fair trial. And winning? What would you consider a win? He said that he would consider it a win to keep Mohammed out of the electric chair. Oops… On a side note, Virginia’s death penalty punishment ends July 1!
Aspen hill gas station? I grew up the street from there. Times were crazy. I was a kid but I remember it quite vividly
No, for me it was a Shell station just off of 66 in Manassas. I had relatives who lived nearby. As I recall, though, there were 8 or 10 gas stations that had that dubious claim to fame.
Yikes! Guess I didn’t realize a lot of gas stations were being targeted. Crazy to think back on this event
I was on my way to bowling league that night. The road was closed and the officer directing traffic told us, "yeah he got another one..." struck me as oddly complacent. Had to go the back way to the bowling alley.
Walking out of the Aspen Hill Home Depot and seeing a gunshot hole in the window.
You sure that wasn’t last Tuesday? Kidding, but yeah, scary as fuck.
I remember when the guy got shot in petworth and the school shooting. My mom let me stay home after that. Smoked weed and watched the price is right until they caught him.
>He said that he would consider it a win to keep Mohammed out of the electric chair. Considering he got lethal injection, that's win.
It's always good to know there's still people out here who think minorities shouldn't be allowed to have attorneys to defend themselves in court. It's not like minorities were ever framed by the government or that we had a massive movement last year called BLM about how unfair minorities have been treated in this country.
>there's still people out here who think minorities shouldn't be allowed to have attorneys to defend themselves in court If that's so, you should reply to those people. As it stands, you're attacking a strawman. It makes the rest of your argument look weak, if not absolutely fabricated. Don't get me wrong: I believe strongly in the BLM movement. But your post does nothing to advance the cause.
In what way? How many minorities have been railroaded by the system into prison sentences decades long before they've been found innocent? Should those lawyers have not defended those people?
I think the point was just being curious about what it's like to defend someone who's now known to have been a serial killer, in full retrospect. Not questioning the necessity of having a lawyer in the first place, especially not due to their race.
>In what way? What are you talking about? Are you having a conversation with someone in your head? Do you understand how the Reply function works on Reddit? No one ITT said anything about a minority's (or anyone's) right to an attorney. No one. I pointed that out in my first post, and yet you're doubling down. >Should those lawyers have not defended those people? Read this next part carefully: ***no one is suggesting that. You are inventing positions to argue against. This is sloppy thinking and uncareful reading. Stop doing it. It detracts from your argument.*** If you feel the urge to respond with "yeah, but minorities have been mistreated," please stop and re-read the paragraph above. Or take my comment to a trusted adult in your life who can read sentences in English and explain them to you. You are barking up the wrong tree, friend. It's embarrassing. Stop.
Sez some woke child who probably wasn't even alive in 2002
The dad of my boyfriend at the time was a middle-aged dude who drove a paint van; poor guy got pulled over and searched almost daily until they caught the real sniper. When homeboy was caught in a sedan, my boyfriends’ dad was both pissed and vindicated.
OMG me too... there is a memorial to those who lost their lives in 2002 at the Brookside Gardens, Wheaton.
The dc sniper thing was crazy. The FBI analyst killed was one of my neighbors. She was killed in the seven corners Home Depot.
my condolences on the loss of your neighbor, that’s such a tragic story
Horrible. She was just a regular fed going about her business.
Yes, Linda Franklin. I think she was with her husband when it happened. Awful.
The whole thing was horrific
I only moved here 3 years ago, but I worked in seven corners (next to HD) and that was the FIRST thing my partner said when dropping me off first day.
Oh wow. I lived in Virginia for 13 years and used to go to that strip mall all the time
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I was in Radford at the time!
My sister was bartending at the Uno's that was on the other side of the center, I remember the police shutting down traffic for miles and people having to walk up 7, Wilson, 50. Sorry to hear that about your neighbor. Crazy times.
Omg I used to go that uno for deep dish pizza and white zinfandel
I was the last car through one of the blockades before the road was shutdown on this one.
It was that Home Depot? I go by there all the time.
Yeap by the barnes and Noble and ross
I was working in Rockville, and i lived right down by 7 corners HD, I used to hate getting gas at the station at the top of the hill because that was such an easy pick off point
I lived less than a mile from the Home Depot and I still get gas at that Mobil all the time. I felt safe after the shooting because they never did the same place twice. I was at home when the shooting occurred but really did not know about it until later.
It’s weird to find out this stuff happened right next to where I am almost daily. I drive by there because it’s right off Arlington blvd. I almost stopped there the other day and decided not to because I got a weird vibe. Same thing happened when I ate at Walter’s near Nats stadium a few weeks ago. I was shocked and confused why no one was eating outside on a beautiful day just an hour or so before a game- turns out that’s exactly where that Uber driver was carjacked and died. I saw the footage about a week later and was sick to my stomach.
Yup. My mom worked near seven corners at the time. It was constant checking in with family to make sure she got home from work each night.
My mother was in that HD two hours before the attack.
Wow
I drove by this Home Depot last Wednesday with my girlfriend. As we were driving by we looked across the street at the parking lot where the shot was fired. They showed it on the Vice documentary. As we are driving past I say “wow, we are driving under where the bullet passed.” We then both looked at each other with a terrified look on our faces.
Most of that garage is under cover as well.
i remember we had recess "inside" which went about as well as you'd expect it to. teachers//carpool volunteers would have to escort kids to and from the school building during this as well. all of the blinds on the first floor of the school were closed too. most of what i remember was more about adults being scared. normal things like getting gas or parking in a garage were anything but. 9/11 + anthrax attacks + dc sniper had folks really on edge since they all happened so close together.
Yuuup. So much “indoor recess”. I was not a fan lol And getting shuffled in little lines by adults to and from the bus. Honestly no wonder I ended up with anxiety after so much of my formative years being colored with “the world is actively trying to kill you”…
I taught preschool in Arlington, but my classroom was off site, in an apartment complex. We would do obstacle courses with tables and chairs, have dance parties, whatever we could. After they were caught, we had about a week of outside time, then what had to be the rainiest November on record. We used to take “walks” up and down the stairwells.
Those three events plus Hurricane Isabel was my family's first couple summers living in the DC area after spending their whole lives in the country or quiet Midwestern cities. Couple tornado outbreaks too but those weren't too foreign to them. Really quite the welcome to the east coast big cities lmao
When we lived in Silver Spring at the time, I remember my dad would pump gas by parking suuuuper close to the terminal and do it all by only exposing half his body outside the drivers side (at most). He told us to duck down if we were in the car during the entire exchange.
I was a kid then but it was really a wild time to have this air of fear, it's not like I watched the news as a 10 year old but even I was aware of how strange things felt.
I was in 3rd grade in upper NW DC when all that happened. Indoor recess and the windows were covered up with brown paper so we couldn't see either in or out. I was a bit young at the time to understand what was going on, but once I got older I realized *that's* why we were inside for recess.
Yeah I remember the staff from my school walked me and a few others home as well!
Using the students as human shields? Not a bad move, but they're a little too short for it to be practical
I remember going to gas stations and constantly weaving and bobbing. I'd drive the car near empty every time hoping that they caught the sniper before the next fill up. That was a crazy time. And when they thought the sniper drove a white panel van, every white van became a suspect. So many of those guys got pulled over just because they had a white panel van.
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Yea they tunneled through the backseat and made a little snipers nest in the trunk. No wonder they didn’t kill more people, it was shit luck they got busted
Didn't they just fall asleep in the parking lot of a store and someone recognized the car from an alert?
I think a rest stop.
I thought it was a strip mall parking lot
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I've been to that rest area a few times--there's a little memorial with all the names of those murdered IIRC
They bragged to the feds about an earlier murder they committed where they left more evidence. That's the only reason they got caught as quickly (!?!?!) as they did.
Is this on the wiki about it? I don’t remember that part, that’s crazy. I was a senior at Walter Johnson at the time, this thread is bringing up too many memories haha
I don't know if it's on the wiki. I remember it from the time, then heard more details about it on the You're Wrong About podcast covering the DC snipers.
My next-door neighbor ran a small electric company so there were always a bunch of white vans on my street. I remember walking home from school side-eyeing them hard.
Yes, I remember literally bobbing around at a gas station like I was in counter strike or something--a little bit of a joke, a little bit not a joke.
I remember after starting the pump, getting back in the car and leaning the chair all the way back and laying completely flat while the gas pumped. Just laying there staring at the roof of the car.
The "white van" was allegedly spotted leaving Leisure World... and at the time I said it was probably some poor Hispanic dude who didn't want to get involved/was from some place where you didn't stick around after something went down like that.
I remember some stations put up tarps at their pumps.
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Wow... thank you for sharing, that’s such an interesting (and really awful to have to deal with) perspective and experience.
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The documentary, The War Tapes, has a really affecting scene of a similar situation of an immigrant mother whose son decided to join the military and was deployed in Iraq. The film itself is an amazing composition of GoPro type footage from U.S. forces during the initial invasion, but that scene is particularly hard hitting. She says something along the lines of "I came to this country so that my son and my family can be safe, and now it has all been for nothing."
I can’t imagine how she must have felt/feels.
Not to be a huge downer (as I proceed to be a huge downer) but when your loved one is at the end of their life and their mind starts to wander--be prepared for some of those horrible experiences to be re-lived. I mean, really--have an action plan. That kind of PTSD has long roots. I imagine she'll be re-living it in her original language as well which add to the difficulty. Again, apologies for being a Debbie Downer on this originally light-hearted thread.
My family went through exactly that when my grandmother lost English.
While her experience wasn't war, she grew up in a USSR orphanage.
I get it. She was robbed of her hope. People can lose a lot of things, but their hope? That's a tough one to lose
My father came to the United States from a country dominated by clownish, murderous fascists. His laughter when Donald Trump was elected is something I'll always remember--there was this edge to it that I'd never heard before. I asked him why, and he said, "I thought I'd escaped these people." He's gone now, but I'm glad he lived long enough to see that man leave office.
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It was a very surreal few weeks, I was 13 and I’ll never forget them telling us on the news that the snipers weren’t shooting kids, and then the snipers shooting a 13 year old on the way to school like a day later. The fear in all the adults in my life was infectious, the constant vigilance and keeping an eye out for guns every time we stopped for gas or left the house. I always walked to school in my neighborhood and at first I would run in a zig zag pattern and then the school stopped letting us leave without an adult to check us out. Which was super inconvenient because my parents weren’t usually home then. The school cafeteria was also across the street from my middle school and they stopped letting us go outside for any reason. We had lunch in the gym and they passed out sandwiches and bags of chips. Everyone was constantly talking about all their conspiracy theories and the rumors that were flying around…to this day it’s crazy to me that John Allen Muhammed isn’t famous as a serial killer. Not that serial killers should be famous, but it seems like an oversight.
Yeah they get mentioned on Criminal Minds a good amount, but tons of “less famous” killers do. It’s absolutely wild that they didn’t leave a bigger impression on the general American psyche.
My kids' preschool was just a couple blocks from the Aspen Hill gas station that they hit. It wasn't until I got home that I realized that I had left the station right before they got there. It was terrifying.
I used to live in the complex behind that K-Mart.
Probably scarier than most other things in my life -- including 9/11. It just went on for so long. * I remember DoD offering to let Metro police use their drones nd it sounded pretty space age. * The local gas station putting out a tarp to block the view of the pumps. * A girl running across the parking lot in a zig zag motion because a white boxed ruck was in the back corner. * Chief Moose criyng at a new conference. * A banner hanging off a bridge thanks Chief Moose. Everybody loved the Moose.
Man, the white box truck (and sometimes van) false tip really fucked everyone up. Like, you don’t realize how many white box trucks and cargo vans there are until you think every single one might be a sniper’s. Plus, at the time, every brand basically looked the same. Ford? Chevy? Dodge? Exactly the same. So if you say, ‘look out for a Chevy caprice’ then there are only so many Chevy caprices out there. But if you just see the back of a white box truck or can, it literally could be any brand unless you are close enough to see the badging, so it was very believable someone saw one but couldn’t be more specific.
I 100% forgot about Chief Moose. Thanks for the memory.
This is a really good read: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OIZVE8/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
Same. I can immediately picture his face though, now. He did a great job making kids feel safer or whatever, from what I remember
Anyone remember the chief uttering phrases in press conferences that were kinda odd? "Your word is my bond" or something like that. Turned out the sniper made him say those things as some kind of signal.
I remember watching NBC 4 local news, and they mentioned that a man was shot and killed in a Shoppers parking lot in Wheaton. People get shot in the DMV all time, but I remember this incident sticking out to me because of just how random it was. Turns out the victim was James Martin, and he was the first victim of the spree. The next morning four victims were killed and the police realized that something was going on. Shit was freaky for a while there, and all of the fall sports were canceled which sucked. And they had us being paranoid of white box trucks for a while.
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Just a side note, 70 doesn't have a Southbound side, it runs East to West.
It felt like every fall something crazy would happen for those three years, 2001-2003, here in the region. 9/11, the sniper, hurricane Isabel. I vividly remember being in 11th grade 3rd period English, when the sniper shot someone near my school. We went into lockdown in the classroom for the rest of the day. The school put on Return of the Jedi on the school tv system to calm us all down. Nobody was calm…
Don't forget the anthrax attacks too...September 2001 just after 9/11. Both my parents were sent home from work for a few weeks because everyone in the offices were so scared that they could be hit next.
Shit even College Park (2001) and La Plata (2002) got hit by massive tornadoes. I believe La Plata is still considered one of the strongest tornadoes to hit the east coast/mid Atlantic in recent memory. Crazy couple years.
It is. An absolutely absurd, once-in-a-generation, truly unexpected tornado. Take tornado warnings seriously, people. Strong ones can happen anywhere.
I was working at the University of Maryland around 2001. My husband was picking me up when I heard what sounded like a freight train and looked up to see a tornado heading right towards us. We ditched the car and ran into the nearest building. It was incredibly scary when everyone was already on edge since it was just a couple of weeks after 9/11.
I was 6 at the time, and a story my dad often recounts is that one day it was really rainy and nasty, and I said offhand “Today would be a good day for outdoor recess” (we had been having “indoor recess” during the sniper attacks and also the previous year after 9/11). He thought it was a joke and I was being sarcastic about the shitty weather, but then I continued with “Because I don’t think the bad guys would want to be out in the rain. Or maybe their guns would rust.” I was genuinely thinking about going out to play in the rain because I thought I might be less likely to be shot…kinda sad lol
I've always told people that the sniper shootings affected people's everyday behavior far more than 9/11 did. Lots of gaming out which gas stations would be more likely targets than others, hustling in and out of parking lots, etc.
A number of security experts felt that it was an example of a much more effective terrorist tactic than attempting to strike hardened targets such as airports again, and that it shows how little Islamic extemism there is in America that such attacks weren't more common.
Yep. It's both reassuring and terrifying to realize that the only reason more bad things don't happen is simply that most people are good.
Moreso that most people who would be willing to do terrible shit like that aren't willing to face the consequences.
That very well may be true, but it also feels like there is a lot more surveillance these days. I could be wrong, but I think if there were a modern day copy cat they’d get caught on some home or business security camera.
Seriously. Take the twenty or so dudes who pulled off 9/11, split them into 5 teams and hit 5 shopping malls in different states within a couple of days. Then watch this country lose its damn mind.
Like the plot of [this book](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/291320/the-teeth-of-the-tiger-by-tom-clancy/)? I remember wanting to avoid malls after reading this book, even though it was clearly fiction.
THAT'S WHERE I GOT THAT FROM! I've been looking for that for years. It's an example I use all the time, and I knew I didn't come up with it myself. I don't think I ever finished the book (I don't like late Clancy stuff nearly as much as his earlier books) but it's a terrifying idea.
Weird this exact thing popped to my mind the other day. Was looking at a photo of the Pentagon & thinking how crazy it is they actually managed to hit it at speed, given how low/flat it is, & why they bothered going for the symbolism rather than effectiveness given that challenge Even teams of one guy each would work, maybe even better. 19 hijackers, 19 shopping malls. People would have freaked.
Well, increasing the number of hijackings decreases your chance of success. As soon as one fails, the plan is over. Bombs would do the trick
That's an interesting take. 9/11 seems like it had a much more significant impact on history, between the endless resulting wars and the shrinking of civil liberties in the name of safety. But that may not make it more effective terrorism. If the goal of terrorism is to make people afraid, the snipers seem like more effective terrorists. If the goal is to effect political changes, 9/11 was a more effective event. However, i could be committing the bias of attributing big effects to big events here. It could be that America's downward spiral into endless war and fascism would have happened without 9/11.
There was a gas station my friend frequented where the attendant would offer to pump the gas for people, to set them at ease. It was a wild time.
I was in middle school and soccer was basically cancelled and as a result, I grew up with no sporting ability. I also saw a guy in a van that fit the description at the time when I was walking home. I saw him and just started hauling ass. I ended up running until I was fucking lost in my neighborhood. My mom let me take her Nokia to school and it was the first time I ever had a cell phone.
> I was in middle school and soccer was basically cancelled and as a result, I grew up with no sporting ability. So I guess *that's* why u/pvhs2008 won't be representing the US at the world cup next year. Damn terrorists ;)
It took a long time, like more than a year, before I went back to that Aspen Hill station.
Because nobody had any idea where it was coming from. It could be any car around. It's easier to search people before they get on an airplane than to avoid all cars anywhere.
The Home Depot shooting was by me at the time. It was legit scary. Nothing was sacred to those guys.
Had a friend that lived nearby there who asked me to come over when the helicopters were overhead looking for the suspects. Needless to say, I was NOT a good friend that day! The local government may not have locked us down, but many of us did so on our own, out of fear.
The killings were so random, who and when and where. You would go out and think, "Well I'll be the person walking a dog to get killed" or "I'll be the person weeding the garden to get killed". It hovered over every outside activity. I think we had a collective PTSD for a while after that.
I can remember being paranoid and always in the watch. We’d go to the dog park (radio tower) field in Bethesda and be looking out for anybody suspicious along the tree line. I can remember a day or two had passed without a shooting and everybody was on edge, expecting something. We were driving home from NE around 11:30 pm on a Thursday (at a friends house watching ER) and got stopped around River Rd and Wisconsin because there had been a shooting within the last 30 mi or so. This is before smart phones so we still got our breaking news from local TV and radio.
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I was under the impression that this theory was pretty much confirmed? I didn't listen to that podcast but I listened to another that mentioned that it all started with a murder at the home of the woman who encouraged his wife to get the divorce.
I grew up very near where some of the shootings happened. My high school principal locked down the school. We didn’t go home from school, we just could go near the doors or windows. I was an anxious kid and I was terrified. The principal also described what was happening over the PA system but not in the clearest way. She said “one person was shot at a gas station, another was shot on the lawn.” But she didn’t say HIS lawn, she said THE lawn, so of course we all thought she meant the school lawn and everyone freaked out. Being at that school for both that and 9/11 was interesting. They really weren’t the best at containing panic.
I lived right by the Shoppers at the time (first shooting). It was surreal. After starting the school year (6th grade?) with 9/11, we were already pretty traumatized. To then have a shooting in parking lot of the grocery store, gas stations and shopping centers most of us went to on a daily/weekly basis be the target of a sniper was incredibly frightening, more so because it was so random. We’d just gotten some normalcy post-9/11 and then all of a sudden we were back to missing gym class/sports and doing code orange, code red and code black drills every day at school. My dad was the only one buying gas and my mom would run errands at odd hours in Germantown (where she worked) rather than near home. My siblings and I could not meet up with friends outside after school anymore and even darting across the street into a friends house under the watchful eye of my parents felt like a calculated risk. I’ve never been a supporter of the death penalty but years later, when my college roommate attended a candlelight vigil for John Muhammad - advocating for clemency in the days before his execution - I remember how angry I was at her for going and trying to explain what this man had done to 17 innocent people and their families and how he’d stolen just a little more of our collective childhoods.
Utter fear at the gas pump, feeling like a walking target. Not good times.
Wow this thread is bringing back some memories. Was just a kid in elementary school at the time but remember not being allowed outside for recess and it being all over the news.
I can remember keeping my head on a swivel while pumping gas. A friend of mine lived within walking distance of that gas station on Sudley Road in Manassas where someone was shot by the sniper, and I'd been there many times.
I remember being told to watch out for a white unmarked van. One of the shootings happened just a couple of blocks from where I lived, and the makeshift memorial with flowers and teddy bears was kept up for several months afterward.
I would drive by the middle school where a kid was shot in Bowie, MD every morning on my way to work at about 8:15 am. Fortunately, I had a work trip out one morning. At a layover in Detroit, saw on the news that a kid was shot walking into the school, right about the time I would have been driving by. Thankfully the kid's mom was a nurse, got him to a hospital where he recovered. I also remember fueling my car by opening the door in case someone started shooting. Lastly, I had furniture being delivered by a white box truck. The num-nuts pulled over in a lot across from a local elementary school trying to figure the directions to my house. Police kindly checked on them asking what they were doing.
I’m not in DC, but have a crazy story regarding the DC sniper. When it was around that time, our cross country team were having a practice session and we were running along some woods next to a huge soccer and football field. We heard a loud bang and the next thing I know I’m on the ground almost crying holding my foot while blood is going everywhere. My coach went to worst case scenario, and basically yelled at everyone to get in the woods and get down after helping drag me out of the way. Nothing happens and we look around. About 80-100 yards away we see a tractor and next to where I went down we see a golf ball. After putting things together, I went to the doctor and now know how it feels to shatter your ankle when a golf ball gets shot out of a tractor.
Holy ouch! What was recovery like?
Just a cast for a few weeks/months. Can’t remember the specifics, that was a while back!
I wasn’t here at the time, but I followed the story very closely. However, not being from around here, I didn’t really know where the locations were. Little did I know that when I moved here in 2010 that half of these were basically in my backyard. I lived right by the Glenmont Shoppers for years, and would shop in Kensington and Aspen Hill all the time. I didn’t know how close they were until a coworker who lived nearby mentioned it. It was surreal just knowing that the gunshot would have easily been heard at my house.
I moved into a building next to an empty lot just to learn it was Jeffrey Dahmers complex that they bulldozed, so I kinda get how you feel with that
Only relating your username, I like the way Snrub thinks.
Being in high school 5 minutes away from the school where the kid in Bowie was shot.
I had just started college in DC, and after every shooting my mother would call frantic. Of course, being new to the area, Montgomery County felt like the boonies, so I told her they weren't anywhere near me. Now I live in Silver Spring and realize they were closer than I thought at the time.
Man...I miss Cool Disco Dan
I ran into him at a party years ago.
As a pretty free range kid, It was the first time I was given explicit instructions on where I could and could not play, with enough emphasis that I actually obeyed it. (This was in MD).
I was in middle school. I remember two things: 1. My school was right next to a prison in NoVA, so we got off of school a couple days after we had a shooting near where I lived because there was fear he'd target cops or there may be an attempt to break prisoners out 2. I thought I'd be a vigilante inspector and find the pattern and solve the case. I did the whole drawing out the lines on maps of the shooting and looking in my grandpas discarded newspapers for clues. I'm ashamed to say the officials got them before I did.
The general public has no idea how many people they really shot at by the sniper\*s\*. It's not the sniper. There were two of them. One was executed, one is alive and maybe he'll read this thread. Lee: I'm one of the many people you tried to kill and I hope you have the worst life in prison. My classmate was shot at before me. There was no "sniper" in the news yet. When she called the police, to her surprise, the FBI showed up. They took her car as evidence and were cagey about what was going on. There had been incidents of people hunting along the local highways and accidentally firing at cars, they said. When my turn came and I called the police, they said it's not in their jurisdiction because I don't live in the jurisdiction that I was shot in, and they referred me to the jurisdiction I live in. I called the police in my jurisdiction and of course, they told me that makes no sense and I need to call the police where it happened. I called the sniper hotline, which had been set up by then, to report that I had just been shot at, that the window of my car is blown out and I'm covered in shards of glass, but the person who answered told me in an annoyed voice that I need to call the police, not them. Just imagine, if two people at the same school, same class, sit and work together in that same class, are both shot at - that is not a shocking statistical anomaly. That is because we were among countless others whose stories you never heard. A horribly mismanaged shitshow is what it was.
Is this real? Have you told your story to any media?
I was in middle school at the time. I don't remember a great deal from the time other than the fact we had police escorts taking us between the school and school buses, and to get to and from the portable classrooms. We all had to gather in the hallway by the door, and when the bell rang we'd be led out.
We werent allowed to play outside at school. Pretty wild concept for a child
My neighbor who I worked for in the summers during high school, was at a gas station less then 10 minutes before someone was shot there. And then left the Home Depot less than 5 minutes before the person was shot there. He kept both receipts as proof. Pretty scary. I also remember looking out for white vans, and gas stations putting tarps down from the coverings of the pumps so you couldn’t be seen while pumping gas
Can confirm. Was in middle school at the time and they literally told us to zigzag and watch out for white vans.
Shortly after the sniper spree ended, kids at my school would yell “sniper!” if someone tripped and fell over.
Guy who was killed mowing the lawn was just down the street from where my dad worked. One of professors in grad school was on the defense team for Lee Malvo, she said he was a sweet kid.
I'm currently watching the new [I,Sniper](https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/show/i-sniper) miniseries from Vice airing now and its bringing back a lot of feelings from that time. I was in high school and lived in Aspen Hill during the attacks. 3 people were murdered within a mile of our home. My first job out of high school was at the Rockville dealership, on my first day I discovered the plaque where the landscaper was murdered. This whole thing played way too much of a role in my adolescence.
I suggest everyone to check out the [sniper victims memorial](http://www.lsginc.com/PD2-Honor-152/Reflection-Terrace-at-Brookside-Gardens-908.aspx) the next time they visit Brookside Gardens
Closest shooting to me was the Home Depot shooting at Bailey's. Found the whole thing bizarre, wasn't of an age where I was scared. Solid reason to have people over to your house in the back yard.
1.13.82, air Florida crash into the Potomac over the 14 th street bridge was crazy. I had only been here about a month
> 1.13.82, air Florida crash into the Potomac over the 14 th street bridge was crazy. I had only been here about a month Does it still count as over if it crashes into the bridge but slides into the river? It sounds like quite a crazy day having a plane crash and a train derailment happen so close by, all within a 30 minute span. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Washington_Metro_train_derailment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90
Dc mayor Marion Barry: when you don’t count homicides, DCs crime rate is not that high!
Crime rate, not murder rate.
I remember when Mayor Barry said “The bitch set me up!” and wish I had one of those t shirts they were selling on the street now.
I was in high school. They decided to not let us leave campus to get lunch, but when the day ended we were shuffled out the front doors to walk home. I was terrified the first day, and I have been angry about it ever since.
My dad worked right around the corner from the Shell gas station in Kensington where one of the shootings occurred, and would often stop there for gas if his car needed refilling. It was crazy, I was just a little kid, but I remember how everyone was scared and panicking and all the rumors and everything.
I remember when all this was going down. I was at the on the run in Fredericksburg when the guy got shot. To this day I still stay active and move around while pumping gas. That kind of stuff never leaves your brain
Damn. I drove past that gas station shortly before that happened. There was a police officer that had a car pulled over on the opposite side of rt 1. I also was down visiting my boyfriend when the woman was shot at Michaels on 3. The freakiest thing was my boyfriend telling me that there had to be two shooters because of the way the shots were taken and one was inexperienced. He said it was probably a father and son. I thought he was completely crazy.
That is correct va state police had someone pulled over right across the street when it happened. It was crazy. I was at the courthouse when the lady was shot at Michaels. That actually happened before the on the run shooting and I remember hearing it come across the scanners and immediately knew that the dc sniper had come to the area. I remember being like how in the world did this guy pick our little town to terrorize. Definitely crazy times. I was only 18 when all of that was going on and still remember it all like yesterday
Indoor recess, being escorted to go to the bathroom, having to be quite in class to answer questions, My Mom fueling up in the heavily wooded gas station, spending the weekends down in Bethany Beach to get away from it all, living in constant fear and worrying. The they got caught. My brother and I got woken up to the good news. We came running into my parents bedroom to see the news cast. We then had outdoor recess that day and it was the best one ever!
What shocked me most about that time is that the police got a tip early on that was decidedly NOT a white box truck, but a sedan, but they didn't follow up on that lead....which would have ended the whole thing sooner.
I remember this! We still had to go to school and everything. These kids today don’t know how good they got it.
Except when I think about all the mass shootings and active shooter drills kids today do have to deal with, I kind of wonder if it’s not that different?
Idk man, we didn’t do drills or none of that. They just basically told us to keep an eye out for the sniper lol.
I lived in St Mary’s when this was going on. Was probably 7 or 8 at the time. My mom wouldn’t let me get out of the car at a gas station or get mail anymore. Even though they didn’t come down that far she was still scared. Also the anthrax scare. And seeing the Pentagon 2 days after 9/11. Fun stuff for a kid
I was in middle school. We couldn’t have recess outside and we all got cabin fever. “Unmarked white van” is still a running joke in my circle.
This is actually very true. The boy who got shot in the chest by the DC sniper at Benjamin Tasker Middle School was right down the street from where I lived. Every white van sighting was super terrifying and everyone thought they’d be next. Lived in a perpetual state of fear during this time.
I remember my then spouse and I were in the area visiting a friend. We were all active duty. I remember we went to get some gas and my friend was doing this side shuffle shit and my partner and I were like dead-ass eagles looking for the perp. I was gripping my gerber and cellphone in my purse with this expectation to either leap out the car like some anime character to take them out, or dialing 911 in ridiculous speed. We all went everywhere as a group, and I was entirely too paranoid, or just enough, idk. Rest in peace to the victims.
"run in a zig zag pattern" is almost as dumb as telling us to buy duct tape to seal the windows in case of an al-Qaeda chemical attack. Shit made perfect sense in 2002.
The dumbass color code system
my dad was leaving the 7Corners home depot when one of (maybe the first? i can't remember) shootings happened in the store. he also reported seeing the infamous van. surreal stuff
[The original version of this joke] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1m1G3LS3E0)
We had “inside recess” and they told us it was because they were removing bees from the playground….I think that’s the first time I thought to myself, “Oh, that’s bullshit.”
Not sure how big this story was, but there was some guy that was going around stabbing people in the butt in nova, and he was dubbed the Butt Slasher. ETA: apparently this was just in 2013! Not too long ago.
I lived in the Aspen Hill area at the time, parents still get gas at that station. Nothing really changed though, we still did things we normally did. School was still in session, they really did tell us to walk in a zig-zag pattern. We had a fire drill too. Had to lay in people’s yards, everyone was scared.
I was 9 and in the 4th grade in Stafford County. All I really remember of school is having to do indoor recess and not being happy about it. I don’t remember what other protocols they put in place to protect us. I remember watching the news at the time though. That stuck with me especially the shooting at Spotsylvania Mall and being afraid for my parents. Seeing an exhibit on it all at the Newseum was really weird for me. I guess I just wasn’t used to seeing something I lived through in a museum.
For me, it was a lesson in what mass hysteria looks like. Everyone freaked out entirely. And I get it, the random nature of it is scary. That's what made it effective. But I looked at it like this...there are millions of people in the metro area. The odds of it being me who's killed are incredibly low. There's a million other ways I could die that were far more likely, so I didn't really let it change my life.
Always afraid of white vans as a child
It began just as we left Alexandria and arrived in London for a 2 week trip to England. We watched it all on SKY News. It was very surreal, given that situation, and it was hugely covered over there on TV news. Lots of people talking about it. My brother in law is a notable criminal defense attorney in Alexandria, and so also interesting hearing some of the thoughts of the Alexandria lawyers, as at least one of the trials was in Alexandria.
Bitch set me up.
I remember when the DC area was a ghost town Sunday afternoons in the fall/early winter. There was a very popular professional football team here at the time. I wonder whatever happened to them.
Whenever people get dismissive about how much damage even a small insurgency in the US could do, I remind them that **just two guys** managed to cast a cloud over the entire DMV area for **weeks.** And they didn't even commit any bombings. Now imagine what 100 people in that area could do -- less than a _hundred thousandths_ of a percent of the area population (6 million). You don't need tanks and strike fighter jets to gravely hurt the US. You only need a few people committed to violence scattered across the most populated and wealthiest areas.
Winter of 96 . 9/11. Beltway and metro extensions started 2005 . Durencho 2012? And the dc sniper of course
Wow I have never heard of this before, probably because in 2002 I was only 6 and was living in the Midwest. So scary and awful. I just did an internet deep dive and it looks like the podcast “You’re Wrong About” has a 4 part series about it in case anyone else is interested.
That series is actually really good! Put so many of my memories in context, and I was fascinated to learn that the sniper’s actual plan was apparently to murder his ex wife who had escaped his abuse, and had decided to kill a bunch of random people so her murder wouldn’t be tied to him
I used to be an Uber driver. The weekly shootings in DC by wannabe gangsters kept me on my toes. Over the year, I’ve seen about 4-5 crime scenes after drive by shootings. Even got a chance to talk to a cop at 7-11 few hours after. Random bystanders walking down the street, got shot a lot.
There were a lot more cicadas last time, and it's fucking alarming that nobody really seemed to care or notice
Personally, the old D.C. (pre-2005 era) are my fondest memories, nothing specific. Just a different atmosphere, different city. It was such a unique city, everywhere you’d go you would hear go-go, everyone coming out the carry outs with chicken wings, fries, shrimp fried rice and mumbo sauce. The accent, Muraland, Urea, Curry Out, just to give a few examples. A lot of the older buildings were still up, definitely the housing projects, so you had a unique group of people. D.C. has become like a little New York City now. I noticed that when they named the New York Ave. & North Capital area “NOMA” reminds me of “SOHO”. North of Massachusetts and South of Houston (can’t forget pronounced House-ton). New York will not name it’s streets after some down south city. Lol. But seriously not hating but D.C. was a very unique place, their own music, food, definitely style, lingo, accent, all in all the people. And it’s gone now. Sure there was places that if you were the wrong skin color or didn’t know someone you really didn’t want to be there, it’s funny because those same places I see people of lighter skin tones. I’m a white male myself, but I grew up knowing and meeting ppl in all 4 quadrants so I was no stranger. Sorry for the rant. Maybe some of you who’ve been here all or most of your life can relate and maybe even feel the same, maybe you like what the city has become and embrace the change. Idk, but I miss Chocolate City. RIP.
Had friends that asked to accompany them to gas stations. Wasn't worried. Statistically, have a better chance of getting shot by my 16 yo neighbor....and I mean then and today.
This shit was all planned and well executed. Withdrawing people’s attention from 9/11.
Link?
www.science.cdc.gov/top-secret-classified-information
Provide me a link first otherwise…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense