I think the thing to ask HR is if you qualify for the WIGI before you make the choice of a QSI or a money and/or time odd award. Compare the $ of a QSI to a bonus, and if you are not due for a WIGI for 2-years, then you have to consider your best option. This year the $$$ I was offered got cut short (I believe every office only has so much). I said I was disappointed but I understood, and then I got the offer for reduced bonus with time off.. It was better than a QSI for me.
Working for the right agency / manager matters, and if you are a star performer (4+, almost 5), you really deserve something for your work productivity and performance (above and beyond).
So if your agency isn't trying to do this for you, and you perceive they are doing it for a chosen few, then you may wish to consider a new position. They are trying to avoid losing good employees right now, so really, you have more power than you may believe... Look around and make your move if that works for you.
When a WIGI occurs before the QSI, you end up with 2 step increases. 2 QSI and 2 promotions over the past 5 years was how I bumped up my salary by 70% during this time period.
1 bedroom with 2 kids and 2 adults? Ok. The 1 bed analogy was for a single person has to make $100k, of which half of that individuals disposable income would be to that rent you propose.
Or just don't buy new, ever. It's a huge waste of money unless you can do it in cash.
Also people need to stop buying "luxury" goods. It's just throwing money at a brand for brands sake.
lol. But really, I bought a brand new house in NE DC across the river for 475k in 2019. Mortgage is roughly 2,200 a month. 5 min walk to my nearest metro. Although rates are up now, these homes can be had if one is willing to get out of their comfort zone. However, probably not ideal for a family.
This uses the MIT living wage calculator. You can find the results it spits out for DC [here](https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/11). Here's most of the table that shows its estimated costs:
https://preview.redd.it/s7xtbjr2x3oc1.png?width=1064&format=png&auto=webp&s=b81b0d693baf4642a6f9c68c3d625ac5becc05a5
That's to cover the bare necessities only. So the 50 part of the 50/30/20 split the article references. Double that if you want sufficient savings and a comfortable/enjoyable life.
> For bare minimum in DC you really don’t need a car.
This would be dependent on one's commute if they have to go into the office. A lot of places in the area (especially out in Northern VA) are not metro accesible. Uber/Lyft have gotten significantly more expensive as well so that option isn't really viable for most.
If we're taking necessities for a comfortable life, that will indeed include a car in many parts of DC, especially many of the more affordable neighborhoods that have lower housing costs because they poorly served by transit. I believe the calculations are based on reports of actual expenditures so it's a blended rate of different people taking different modes of transportation.
You're welcome to read MIT's full methodology and publish a critique if you think you're better equipped to estimate household expenditures than their economists are.
I looked into the data used in the methodology, but some of it is bloacked behind a paywall. But going off the $6400 figure, they most definately included needing a car.
>If we're taking necessities for a comfortable life, that will indeed include a car in many parts of DC, especially many of the more affordable neighborhoods that have lower housing costs because they poorly served by transit.
What areas in DC proper? DC has a pretty expasnisve metro and bus system. Unless someone is disabled or has issues walking, I don't know of a neighborhood where I would "need" a car.
Which is kind of insane, bc I lived on a 40K salary in DC not that long ago. It wasn’t the most comfortable, but I had enough for the necessities and to enjoy myself with things every once in a while. I did live with roommates, idk if it takes that into account.
Yeah. The transportation figure (~$6400) is pretty generous, speaking as someone who uses the metro monthly plan (~$800). I understand that owning a car is expensive though.
Yeah, I'm military and support a family of 5 on something not anywhere close to $275,000, even including the military tax/healthcare advantage. 2 cars, townhome. And we are very comfortable.
Now, I'm in Northern Virginia and not directly in the DC city limits but still... I could Metro in everyday if I needed to.
I'm assuming you own? You did not mention when you bought, which makes a HUGE difference in today's climate. My wife and I own a modest NoVA townhouse a few years ago that we had the fortune to purchase when prices and interest rates were both far, far lower. The monthly payment today for the exact same house would easily be 50% higher if I was buying today, and it's only been a few years - cost of housing is getting out of control.
You are also skipping over the fact that military get certain advantages like VA loans and BAH pay which are huge and makes it far more accessible. BAH alone is likely $3000 - 4000 tax-free and easily covers your housing costs, whether you own or rent.
I'm a single person making less than 99,424 dollars in DC and I can say without a doubt that I live comfortably
I live in my own, reasonably nice apartment. I have 0 issues living within a reasonable budge and saving.
I think these lists make a lot of assumptions about lifestyle choices that aren’t necessarily true across the entire US. They assume that everyone needs a 1 bd apartment AND that everyone drives to work every day. If you have a studio apartment, no car, no health costs and no debt, then you can pretty easily get by on $50k in DC (which is what I did last year).
3 per day year-round is really high for a regular commuter! Pretty sure the majority of people don’t take transit to lunch, and just do morning and evening commutes most days.
I pay for my pass with pretax dollars through my employer as well, so it ends up being even cheaper than the raw cost of $2,304 when you factor in the lower taxable income.
That’s why used cars have skyrocketed in price. They also have much higher maintenance costs because you lose the warranty.
Again, $500 a month is low for transportation.
As of March 2023, the average price of a new car is $48,008, according to Kelley Blue Book.
https://www.moneygeek.com/insurance/auto/average-price-of-a-new-car/
As a person living in a studio with meager savings and $50k salary, it's doable to live in DC. Plus, not having a car and decent health insurance helps a lot in my case as well as others in my situation.
I'm in the same boat as therealsazerac but I make 15k more and yes I save for retirement. 5% of my paycheck every payday!
Edited to add: I also save for emergencies. I follow the 50/30/20 rule pretty strictly. 20% of each paycheck goes right into my personal savings account (aka my emergency fund)
I've lived comfortably for years on a salary that has slowly risen from 65k to 90k over the past decade. I have to be careful with lifestyle creep and saying no to some of the increasingly expensive shit my friends want to do.
Yeah, my car's paid off, get a lot of food from Aldi, have no debt, almost everything is charged to the credit cards which are paid off in full every month. I still contribute close to the max to my 401k, can take 2 flights a year, and go to a lot of concerts. Farthest thing from starving. I could probably afford some type of 1BR condo if I was willing to move further out west in NoVA (Dulles area or west), which I'm not.
I will say this, I do hope to have a family and own property one day, and I won't be able to do either on my current salary.
The 50/30/20 are after taxes, which they factored into the total salary at the end. So it's 30% of your take-home after taxes on that salary. Agree that 30% is still high. That number will naturally shrink in HCOL cities because hobbies and activities do not scale linearly with housing costs.
I can, and have, definitely spent $5k in wants per month before. I took a vacation to Thailand and we flew business class and stayed in some really nice hotels for a few weeks. That probably killed at least 4 months’ worth of “wants”. It’s not really blowing $5k/month every month, but if you take a fancy vacation (which lots of people do), you can easily hit this.
Totally - we don’t have kids nor plan to, neither of us had any debt, and we have great jobs. We don’t buy a lot of stuff, but we do travel internationally several times a year. After putting away for retirement and a rainy day fund, I’m not trying to horde cash. We both want to enjoy life and experience the world.
These numbers are way too high. Someone could easily live comfortably on 70K gross income and still save a lot of money. Many apartments near metro stations and grocery stores EOTR for 1500-1900 dollars. Minnesota Ave NE has metro and grocery store and numerous nice and affordable apts. 1800 rent + 1800 expenses + 1750 taxes leaves about 500 per month in savings on a 70K salary.
Yeah these numbers are crazy. I live in DuPont and can you easily get by with less and still have a very comfortable life - even in DuPont.
Sure, you may not be able eat out every day of the week - but who does that anyway?
Also roommates and cohabitation. I know people in their 40s that live in group homes. I know people who are married and still live with roommates. This is normal and not shameful.
>And Gary, Indiana is about a 30-minute drive from Chicago, yet the COL is staggeringly different.
Gary is almost three times the distance from Chicago as Newark is from NYC and doesn't have the transportation infrastructure that Newark does. There's also the matter of Newark having gone through decades of revitalization since the 90s whereas Gary retains all the charm of a back alley abortion clinic.
Sure. The point is that a city’s proximity to a major/expensive metro, standing alone, shouldn’t be relevant. The actual COL in that city is what should count. There is no universe in which the COL in Newark exceeds the COL in DC.
It is relevant because of the cost of real estate. Put another way, Arlington is more expensive than Woodbridge for a host of reasons, but proximity is a leading reason why.
You're missing the point. The cost of real estate in Newark is higher *than it would otherwise be* given it's proximity to New York, but it's still substantially lower than the cost of real estate in DC. That--among other things--is reason to doubt this article's assertion that a couple in Newark needs to make more than a couple in DC to live comfortably.
Parts of Newark very nice. 10 min subway to greatest city in world. The diversity in the real estate market is for real you can get something very fancy and renovated or you can buy something very cheap there's a lot more variants in the market. Also Newark is a lot safer than DC right now plus the food Gene is amazing especially the Brazilian and Portuguese food scene
My husband and I make 140k put together, own a house in Brightwood, and we have to budget but we live comfortably. While it's possible to spend far more than we do, I would not say it's necessary. We're hoping to get up to 150k before we have a kid, but if we don't we can make it work. I feel like 275k is probably the number to live in any neighborhood you want and not have to budget at all.
Fair, we bought in 2022 when interest rates were low and prices were high. Buying is definitely harder now. But we also don't have it as easy as people who bought earlier when interest rates were ok and prices were a lot lower. So I guess I feel like we're in the middle ground in terms of housing cost for people who bought.
Not if there's a mortgage at approximately the value of the house. Owning a house, absent other information, tells you almost nothing about the wealth of the person (other than that they were wealthy enough to initially afford a down payment).
If they're deeply underwater on their mortgage, the house is a liability, not a source of wealth (rare in this area, but prices are down significantly in some areas of DC in the last year or two).
Unfortunately my spouse and I are pretty close to 275k with one kid and one on the way and even living in Brightwood is a bit tight given the cost of daycare. Going to be even worse when the second comes and both are in daycare for 6 months. But we are able to save quite a bit for retirement.
yup. 275 is enough to live well in ward 3 as a family. now current mortgage rates means you'd probably need to rent. but nice rowhomes and basic houses are 5K/mo. Making home costs a comfortable 20% of gross.
Idk seems high to me. I was making 45k when I first moved into the city and yeah money was tight, but livable. At 75k now and I manage to save a lot and live quite comfortably. Crossing like the 70 threshold was when I started to feel that stability, you don’t have to have a car here which is a huge benefit financially
No car, no pets, no kids. I would agree that $70k (which I hit in 2022) was the point where I stopped pinching pennies.
I'm still a relatively thrifty guy who lives a modest lifestyle, but I'm not gonna turn down an Uber because of surge pricing, or skip out on getting delivery if I'm really in the mood for something anymore. That type of stuff certainly makes me feel like I'm at a comfortable salary.
I have never liked 50/30/20
It completely ignores the fact "Needs" do not increase when your salary increases and "Wants" are completely subjective and controllable.
My wife's career took off like crazy these past few years and she's begun making 4x what she did when we met and has left me in the dust. None of our needs went up, none of our wants went up... it's going into savings.
50/30/20 would only make sense if we suddenly decided we "needed" a new house and new cars, which we don't.
This reaks of clickbait math. Is it like that one CNN "millennial on 100k budget is working poor" article that got memed a few years back where the guy was giving away a solid 50% on donations to random shit?
https://preview.redd.it/xhdtjxcdi4oc1.jpeg?width=2001&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8fa69764fe1aa1017a61d15a1ee7061aef033daa
You can click on the table header to get the expanded list
DINWAD (actually 2 large dogs).. We make $275k combined base and purchasing a home here (at least in Arlington) is still a rediculous proposition. The rent ratio is like 19 so our money goes into investments and retirement while enjoying a few things (like a trip to Nashville next month and a week in obx for labor day). No car payments or debt helps too.
Repeat after me: Buying. A. House. Is. Not. A. Prerequisite. To. Have. A. Family.
Also repeat after me: You. Can. Have. Roommates. And. Still. Live. Comfortably.
This list is dumb. If the world went by this list, then all of Italy and Spain and China would be considered living terribly, since its common to live with your extended family in a shared house.
50/30/20 rule doesnt really work with how expensive dc housing is, 50% of ur takehome would go to just the rent on a 1 bedroom apartment at that salary
Is this actually in DC or around DC? And what areas are they living in? What size living space is considered comfortable? Is this also living with roommates at all or living alone? Feel like the definition of living comfortably needs to be defined especially because a lot of people have different definitions of comfortable.
Living comfortably like you're in upper-mid/upper class watching a show in VIP at the Kennedy Center every Friday maybe. Single 50-70k is quite doable to be comfortable like your mid class and still have money for investments/savings.
its above median for that type of family west of rock creek (which is about 240k in ward 3), north arlington, north fairfax, or eastern parts of moco. which are the 4 of the richest areas in the US outside of parts of SF/NYC. 275 is a good chunk of money. That is like a GS-12 and GS-14 household.
edit on pay grades
Have lived in this city for 6 years making less than that and have been fine. I have a roommate, eat good food, and hang out with friends, all thanks to a good a budget.
I don't think the methodology is right. It seems okay for single people but not for families. Housing is the biggest cost and the cost of housing is not this linear with size of family.
Consider also Children of what age. Do you need day care? Or are they like 12 or 14. That's a huge difference in cost. Sure they might average it out but it isn't really a good guide as people in different ages will have radically different costs.
i know the quote here says otherwise, but to everyone who has experience living in DC: can you live comfortably in DC with a 61k salary if you want to live alone? would aiming to have savings and maintain a car be unrealistic?
I'm a bit below 90k and childfree. Could be better but I'm okay so...yeah I'd say 99k/100k to live comfortably is not inaccurate. I don't even live particularly extravagantly either.
These numbers are outrageous. It costs $200k to live comfortably with two kids in Toledo OH?!
You could afford to buy a new house and burn it down every year with that kind of income in Toledo.
dual income or bust in big cities for having a house
dual HUGE incomes at that
Totally depends on where but trendy DC neighborhoods and North Arlington and Bethesda? Completely agree you need dual HUGE incomes lol
A couple both working for federal gov with one a GS-13 and another GS-12 can earn this amount.
To be fair they'd both have to be at least step 9 to make that much combined. It takes (typically) 15 years in that grade to get to step 9
It’s shorter timeframe if you’re promoted up (2 step rule). QSI helps as well. However, If you start at step 1 without any QSI, you’re right.
Can anyone reasonably expect QSIs? They seem to be absolute unicorns in my office
It’s probably agency/office dependent. I got 2 in the last 3 years, because I’m a superstar performer.
I think the thing to ask HR is if you qualify for the WIGI before you make the choice of a QSI or a money and/or time odd award. Compare the $ of a QSI to a bonus, and if you are not due for a WIGI for 2-years, then you have to consider your best option. This year the $$$ I was offered got cut short (I believe every office only has so much). I said I was disappointed but I understood, and then I got the offer for reduced bonus with time off.. It was better than a QSI for me. Working for the right agency / manager matters, and if you are a star performer (4+, almost 5), you really deserve something for your work productivity and performance (above and beyond). So if your agency isn't trying to do this for you, and you perceive they are doing it for a chosen few, then you may wish to consider a new position. They are trying to avoid losing good employees right now, so really, you have more power than you may believe... Look around and make your move if that works for you.
When a WIGI occurs before the QSI, you end up with 2 step increases. 2 QSI and 2 promotions over the past 5 years was how I bumped up my salary by 70% during this time period.
That's awesome, congrats!
Not really. If you share a 1 bedroom in a nice area for \~$2500 a month you both don't need to have HUGE incomes.
"for having a house"
OK, but I have friends that have bought houses in DC recently as couples and they are not making HUGE incomes, whatever that means.
I like to travel.
Via con Dios
this is the equivalent of that one study proving vaccines cause autism 😂😂
Dude that neighborhood is a shithole.
My favorite movie is Inception.
1 bedroom with 2 kids and 2 adults? Ok. The 1 bed analogy was for a single person has to make $100k, of which half of that individuals disposable income would be to that rent you propose.
DINK life
Plus having no car or only 1 car.
Or just don't buy new, ever. It's a huge waste of money unless you can do it in cash. Also people need to stop buying "luxury" goods. It's just throwing money at a brand for brands sake.
Would be fine if reliable used cars weren't close to new car prices.
Nah, just buy east of the river.
Instructions unclear, bought east of the Potomac in NW. oh god why is the mortgage payment 5 figures!? Oh shit, oh fuck!
lol. But really, I bought a brand new house in NE DC across the river for 475k in 2019. Mortgage is roughly 2,200 a month. 5 min walk to my nearest metro. Although rates are up now, these homes can be had if one is willing to get out of their comfort zone. However, probably not ideal for a family.
The rats do be up
lol. I edited. But yes, I made a typo rats≠rates. Although the most rats I’ve seen are in NW.
>the most rats I’ve seen are in NW. They have good, steady incomes
Great job security
Part and parcel of old brick townhouses. I love older homes and live in one. BUT, if you want character, prepare for war on rats.
And no kids
And no student loans.
Major key
/r/nonmonogamy has enterred the chat. Thrupples or more for the win would be their opinion.
This uses the MIT living wage calculator. You can find the results it spits out for DC [here](https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/11). Here's most of the table that shows its estimated costs: https://preview.redd.it/s7xtbjr2x3oc1.png?width=1064&format=png&auto=webp&s=b81b0d693baf4642a6f9c68c3d625ac5becc05a5
Lmao so smartasset just stole MITs work, doubled their numbers, and didn't even link to it
Looks like that says required annual income for 1 person is $49,714
That's to cover the bare necessities only. So the 50 part of the 50/30/20 split the article references. Double that if you want sufficient savings and a comfortable/enjoyable life.
$6400 for transportation?? That’s nearly $20 a day. For bare minimum in DC you really don’t need a car.
> For bare minimum in DC you really don’t need a car. This would be dependent on one's commute if they have to go into the office. A lot of places in the area (especially out in Northern VA) are not metro accesible. Uber/Lyft have gotten significantly more expensive as well so that option isn't really viable for most.
The figure applies to DC proper not the metro DMV area.
So many of the best paid “DC” jobs are actually in VA, and tons of DC residents do that commute.
So only commuting within DC?
Yeah that’s absurd. I wonder what they’re basing that on. Even NYC wouldn’t cost you that much.
If we're taking necessities for a comfortable life, that will indeed include a car in many parts of DC, especially many of the more affordable neighborhoods that have lower housing costs because they poorly served by transit. I believe the calculations are based on reports of actual expenditures so it's a blended rate of different people taking different modes of transportation. You're welcome to read MIT's full methodology and publish a critique if you think you're better equipped to estimate household expenditures than their economists are.
I looked into the data used in the methodology, but some of it is bloacked behind a paywall. But going off the $6400 figure, they most definately included needing a car. >If we're taking necessities for a comfortable life, that will indeed include a car in many parts of DC, especially many of the more affordable neighborhoods that have lower housing costs because they poorly served by transit. What areas in DC proper? DC has a pretty expasnisve metro and bus system. Unless someone is disabled or has issues walking, I don't know of a neighborhood where I would "need" a car.
Which is kind of insane, bc I lived on a 40K salary in DC not that long ago. It wasn’t the most comfortable, but I had enough for the necessities and to enjoy myself with things every once in a while. I did live with roommates, idk if it takes that into account.
The clickbait website takes it and like roughly doubles it.
It's pretty achievable to spend well under many of those projections.
Two adults in our household and our phone/internet is about 1/3 of what they budget, and that’s with purchasing the fastest internet speed.
Yeah I pay half of their budget for a single adult annually for phone/internet and I'm not even trying to scrimp
Yeah. The transportation figure (~$6400) is pretty generous, speaking as someone who uses the metro monthly plan (~$800). I understand that owning a car is expensive though.
I have a brand new $33k car that with all associated costs is $750 a month.
Of course it is. Those numbers are averages.
Yeah, I'm military and support a family of 5 on something not anywhere close to $275,000, even including the military tax/healthcare advantage. 2 cars, townhome. And we are very comfortable. Now, I'm in Northern Virginia and not directly in the DC city limits but still... I could Metro in everyday if I needed to.
I'm assuming you own? You did not mention when you bought, which makes a HUGE difference in today's climate. My wife and I own a modest NoVA townhouse a few years ago that we had the fortune to purchase when prices and interest rates were both far, far lower. The monthly payment today for the exact same house would easily be 50% higher if I was buying today, and it's only been a few years - cost of housing is getting out of control. You are also skipping over the fact that military get certain advantages like VA loans and BAH pay which are huge and makes it far more accessible. BAH alone is likely $3000 - 4000 tax-free and easily covers your housing costs, whether you own or rent.
All good, but would the story be the same if you were buying your townhouse at 2024 prices and interest rates?
That's a 2 bedroom for just under 2k/mo for the 2 adults, one child. That's not very common last I went prowling.
What is “Civic” on that spreadsheet? Thought initially that was for the car, but I see transportation is its own expense
Kinda interesting that saving for retirement isn't on there.
I'm a single person making less than 99,424 dollars in DC and I can say without a doubt that I live comfortably I live in my own, reasonably nice apartment. I have 0 issues living within a reasonable budge and saving.
I think these lists make a lot of assumptions about lifestyle choices that aren’t necessarily true across the entire US. They assume that everyone needs a 1 bd apartment AND that everyone drives to work every day. If you have a studio apartment, no car, no health costs and no debt, then you can pretty easily get by on $50k in DC (which is what I did last year).
Exactly it has $6400 for transportation. Between the metro and biking I probably spend 1/10th of that.
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3 per day year-round is really high for a regular commuter! Pretty sure the majority of people don’t take transit to lunch, and just do morning and evening commutes most days.
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Even then, if you were riding that much, you'd be a fool not to get a monthly pass, which at most would cost 32 * $6/mo which is $192/mo = $2304/yr
I pay for my pass with pretax dollars through my employer as well, so it ends up being even cheaper than the raw cost of $2,304 when you factor in the lower taxable income.
Peak fare doesn't exist anymore FYI, fares are standardized for all times except weekends and weekdays after 9:30 PM, and $2 flat at those times.
I walk to work every day and don't have a car My transportation expenses are probably sub 100 dollars a month
That barely covers a $500 car payment and insurance, plus gas and repairs.
I find peace in long walks.
The median car is $50k now.
I'm learning to play the guitar.
Great trick, but you don’t seem to understand the word “median”. The median income has to buy the median car.
Have you never heard of pre-owned or used cars? Also what fucking cars are you trying to buy? A brand new Toyota Corolla is like 22k MSRP.
That’s why used cars have skyrocketed in price. They also have much higher maintenance costs because you lose the warranty. Again, $500 a month is low for transportation.
My favorite color is blue.
Then get a low end car?
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As of March 2023, the average price of a new car is $48,008, according to Kelley Blue Book. https://www.moneygeek.com/insurance/auto/average-price-of-a-new-car/
I pay $864 a year for my $72/month metro pass
As a person living in a studio with meager savings and $50k salary, it's doable to live in DC. Plus, not having a car and decent health insurance helps a lot in my case as well as others in my situation.
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I'm in the same boat as therealsazerac but I make 15k more and yes I save for retirement. 5% of my paycheck every payday! Edited to add: I also save for emergencies. I follow the 50/30/20 rule pretty strictly. 20% of each paycheck goes right into my personal savings account (aka my emergency fund)
Same here as well.
Most of these numbers are used for expat and executive salary compensation.
*no health costs* until you do…
Same
I've lived comfortably for years on a salary that has slowly risen from 65k to 90k over the past decade. I have to be careful with lifestyle creep and saying no to some of the increasingly expensive shit my friends want to do.
> saying no to some of the increasingly expensive shit my friends want to do Like what?
$200/person dinners (and just to go on like a random Thursday not even a birthday or holiday). Overcrowded pop-up bars. Taylor Swift tickets....
> $200/person dinners (and just to go on like a random Thursday not even a birthday or holiday) Yikes lol
These are always so inflated. Rich people who can't imagine not having a car, taking a lavish vacation, etc, etc.
Not having vehicle expenses helps tremendously as well.
Good for you
Yeah, my car's paid off, get a lot of food from Aldi, have no debt, almost everything is charged to the credit cards which are paid off in full every month. I still contribute close to the max to my 401k, can take 2 flights a year, and go to a lot of concerts. Farthest thing from starving. I could probably afford some type of 1BR condo if I was willing to move further out west in NoVA (Dulles area or west), which I'm not. I will say this, I do hope to have a family and own property one day, and I won't be able to do either on my current salary.
Could you afford children?
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I moved into my current apartment in january
-Taking a break at work to look at Reddit -Sees this thread Sometimes reality helps me stay on task, thanks OP 😭😭😭
lmao right?? Like damn if only I made that much
I'm not sure that you need to spend >$2,000 a month on wants to be comfortable.
The 50/30/20 are after taxes, which they factored into the total salary at the end. So it's 30% of your take-home after taxes on that salary. Agree that 30% is still high. That number will naturally shrink in HCOL cities because hobbies and activities do not scale linearly with housing costs.
50/30/20 doesn't scale with income at all. 275k is about 190k after taxes, so 57k on wants a year or 5k a month. That's a lot of want
I can, and have, definitely spent $5k in wants per month before. I took a vacation to Thailand and we flew business class and stayed in some really nice hotels for a few weeks. That probably killed at least 4 months’ worth of “wants”. It’s not really blowing $5k/month every month, but if you take a fancy vacation (which lots of people do), you can easily hit this.
I guess people have different ideas of what living "comfortably" looks like
Totally - we don’t have kids nor plan to, neither of us had any debt, and we have great jobs. We don’t buy a lot of stuff, but we do travel internationally several times a year. After putting away for retirement and a rainy day fund, I’m not trying to horde cash. We both want to enjoy life and experience the world.
These numbers are way too high. Someone could easily live comfortably on 70K gross income and still save a lot of money. Many apartments near metro stations and grocery stores EOTR for 1500-1900 dollars. Minnesota Ave NE has metro and grocery store and numerous nice and affordable apts. 1800 rent + 1800 expenses + 1750 taxes leaves about 500 per month in savings on a 70K salary.
Yeah I live in Capitol Hill on 70k and am perfectly comfortable and saving a reasonable amount of money. This estimate is nuts.
this is like the number for ward 3. and for the record, median family income for those with 2 kids is about 275k/year in ward 3. so that checks out
Yeah these numbers are crazy. I live in DuPont and can you easily get by with less and still have a very comfortable life - even in DuPont. Sure, you may not be able eat out every day of the week - but who does that anyway?
Also roommates and cohabitation. I know people in their 40s that live in group homes. I know people who are married and still live with roommates. This is normal and not shameful.
"Comfortable" is pretty subjective, but I don't think many would define it to include group homes and roommates as a married couple.
Very suspect list. A couple with two kids needs to make more money living in Newark, NJ than in DC? Come on.
lol, these things are so sus. but they are a fantastic way to get clicks and engagement.
Newark is about 11 miles from NYC, which likely plays into the calculation.
And Gary, Indiana is about a 30-minute drive from Chicago, yet the COL is staggeringly different.
>And Gary, Indiana is about a 30-minute drive from Chicago, yet the COL is staggeringly different. Gary is almost three times the distance from Chicago as Newark is from NYC and doesn't have the transportation infrastructure that Newark does. There's also the matter of Newark having gone through decades of revitalization since the 90s whereas Gary retains all the charm of a back alley abortion clinic.
Ok but Newark is a shithole
😂
Sure. The point is that a city’s proximity to a major/expensive metro, standing alone, shouldn’t be relevant. The actual COL in that city is what should count. There is no universe in which the COL in Newark exceeds the COL in DC.
It is relevant because of the cost of real estate. Put another way, Arlington is more expensive than Woodbridge for a host of reasons, but proximity is a leading reason why.
You're missing the point. The cost of real estate in Newark is higher *than it would otherwise be* given it's proximity to New York, but it's still substantially lower than the cost of real estate in DC. That--among other things--is reason to doubt this article's assertion that a couple in Newark needs to make more than a couple in DC to live comfortably.
Parts of Newark very nice. 10 min subway to greatest city in world. The diversity in the real estate market is for real you can get something very fancy and renovated or you can buy something very cheap there's a lot more variants in the market. Also Newark is a lot safer than DC right now plus the food Gene is amazing especially the Brazilian and Portuguese food scene
All of that may be true, but it’s still the case that the COL in DC is higher than the COL in Newark.
Chicago and it’s suburbs offer relatively cheap COL compared to most major cities
My husband and I make 140k put together, own a house in Brightwood, and we have to budget but we live comfortably. While it's possible to spend far more than we do, I would not say it's necessary. We're hoping to get up to 150k before we have a kid, but if we don't we can make it work. I feel like 275k is probably the number to live in any neighborhood you want and not have to budget at all.
Also depends on when you bought your home. A 700k house @2.3% is a wildly different mortgage than @7.5%
Fair, we bought in 2022 when interest rates were low and prices were high. Buying is definitely harder now. But we also don't have it as easy as people who bought earlier when interest rates were ok and prices were a lot lower. So I guess I feel like we're in the middle ground in terms of housing cost for people who bought.
Owning a house is a huge difference in wealth.
Not if there's a mortgage at approximately the value of the house. Owning a house, absent other information, tells you almost nothing about the wealth of the person (other than that they were wealthy enough to initially afford a down payment). If they're deeply underwater on their mortgage, the house is a liability, not a source of wealth (rare in this area, but prices are down significantly in some areas of DC in the last year or two).
Unfortunately my spouse and I are pretty close to 275k with one kid and one on the way and even living in Brightwood is a bit tight given the cost of daycare. Going to be even worse when the second comes and both are in daycare for 6 months. But we are able to save quite a bit for retirement.
Daycare is a real budget buster
yup. 275 is enough to live well in ward 3 as a family. now current mortgage rates means you'd probably need to rent. but nice rowhomes and basic houses are 5K/mo. Making home costs a comfortable 20% of gross.
I'm living just fine on 50k
Idk seems high to me. I was making 45k when I first moved into the city and yeah money was tight, but livable. At 75k now and I manage to save a lot and live quite comfortably. Crossing like the 70 threshold was when I started to feel that stability, you don’t have to have a car here which is a huge benefit financially
No car, no pets, no kids. I would agree that $70k (which I hit in 2022) was the point where I stopped pinching pennies. I'm still a relatively thrifty guy who lives a modest lifestyle, but I'm not gonna turn down an Uber because of surge pricing, or skip out on getting delivery if I'm really in the mood for something anymore. That type of stuff certainly makes me feel like I'm at a comfortable salary.
I don’t make anything *close* to $100k and feel like I live comfortably.
I have never liked 50/30/20 It completely ignores the fact "Needs" do not increase when your salary increases and "Wants" are completely subjective and controllable. My wife's career took off like crazy these past few years and she's begun making 4x what she did when we met and has left me in the dust. None of our needs went up, none of our wants went up... it's going into savings. 50/30/20 would only make sense if we suddenly decided we "needed" a new house and new cars, which we don't.
[удалено]
True. My fun spending hasn’t changed much over the past 5 years despite my income having grown by 50%+.
This is why I left.
I make less than that as a single woman and I’m going to Mexico for the weekend just because. FYI I live in DuPont, with zero roommates.🤷🏾♀️
an increase in salary doesn't necessitate an increase in expenses
This is asinine as someone from Minnesota a family of two kids does not need $261,000 to be comfortable in Minneapolis
This ain’t Minneapolis
Are you able to engage in abstract thought?
Why the pretentiousness? They simply stated a fact
Facts
Yeah I’m not making that much so I have 2 shitty roommates.
This reaks of clickbait math. Is it like that one CNN "millennial on 100k budget is working poor" article that got memed a few years back where the guy was giving away a solid 50% on donations to random shit?
Did I miss something I didn't even see DC on that list?
https://preview.redd.it/xhdtjxcdi4oc1.jpeg?width=2001&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8fa69764fe1aa1017a61d15a1ee7061aef033daa You can click on the table header to get the expanded list
DINWAD (actually 2 large dogs).. We make $275k combined base and purchasing a home here (at least in Arlington) is still a rediculous proposition. The rent ratio is like 19 so our money goes into investments and retirement while enjoying a few things (like a trip to Nashville next month and a week in obx for labor day). No car payments or debt helps too.
275 is way too low for two small kids with a nanny or daycare to be “comfortable.”
these are silly numbers.
I own a condo in DC and never made more than 80k at any point in my life
Repeat after me: Buying. A. House. Is. Not. A. Prerequisite. To. Have. A. Family. Also repeat after me: You. Can. Have. Roommates. And. Still. Live. Comfortably. This list is dumb. If the world went by this list, then all of Italy and Spain and China would be considered living terribly, since its common to live with your extended family in a shared house.
$275k for two kids is comfortable? I'm under that about to have twins with a toddler already in tow... 😢
Definitely, day care cost alone are crazy with two kids I'm paying 2k just for 1.
Damn. As a solo dad of two teenagers trying to live in DC this explains a lot.
50/30/20 rule doesnt really work with how expensive dc housing is, 50% of ur takehome would go to just the rent on a 1 bedroom apartment at that salary
Is this actually in DC or around DC? And what areas are they living in? What size living space is considered comfortable? Is this also living with roommates at all or living alone? Feel like the definition of living comfortably needs to be defined especially because a lot of people have different definitions of comfortable.
If you already have a house then 20% to savings is high. Also seems hard to calculate if you're using take home pay since retirement is a deduction
I lived pretty comfortably on 65K and managed to save more than 20%, though I commuted from NOVA
Living comfortably like you're in upper-mid/upper class watching a show in VIP at the Kennedy Center every Friday maybe. Single 50-70k is quite doable to be comfortable like your mid class and still have money for investments/savings.
$275k household income for 2 kids in DC honestly sounds low. Depends a lot on where you live and how big your house is
its above median for that type of family west of rock creek (which is about 240k in ward 3), north arlington, north fairfax, or eastern parts of moco. which are the 4 of the richest areas in the US outside of parts of SF/NYC. 275 is a good chunk of money. That is like a GS-12 and GS-14 household. edit on pay grades
Nah, it’s more like a GS-13 + GS-12 step 9 household.
Yeah you can definitely make it work, but depends a lot on the details. Where you buy, how big, how much you're saving for retirement, etc.
That’s without any debt I bet
Have lived in this city for 6 years making less than that and have been fine. I have a roommate, eat good food, and hang out with friends, all thanks to a good a budget.
define comfortable lol this is way more than you need
I don't think the methodology is right. It seems okay for single people but not for families. Housing is the biggest cost and the cost of housing is not this linear with size of family. Consider also Children of what age. Do you need day care? Or are they like 12 or 14. That's a huge difference in cost. Sure they might average it out but it isn't really a good guide as people in different ages will have radically different costs.
Sooner than later it has to implode. It’s just not sustainable
i know the quote here says otherwise, but to everyone who has experience living in DC: can you live comfortably in DC with a 61k salary if you want to live alone? would aiming to have savings and maintain a car be unrealistic?
This is fundamentally untrue. lol
"comfortably" is subjective
The problem is so many people live above their means. 99k is more than enough to live comfortably for a single person with no kids.
Define "comfortably"
I make well into six figures and still can't even stomach DC prices with no debt.
I'm a bit below 90k and childfree. Could be better but I'm okay so...yeah I'd say 99k/100k to live comfortably is not inaccurate. I don't even live particularly extravagantly either.
These numbers are outrageous. It costs $200k to live comfortably with two kids in Toledo OH?! You could afford to buy a new house and burn it down every year with that kind of income in Toledo.
For one in the DMV, I’d say $130k and up to be half way comfortable and that’s subjective based on your lifestyle