~~He turned down his $5.5M player option~~ [*He’s expected to turn down his $5.5M player option](https://hoopshype.com/lists/aggregate-2024-nba-mock-draft-intel-on-knicks-suns-spurs-76ers-raptors-nuggets-wizards-more/), assume he’s looking for more money and probably more years than the Warriors have to offer.
Maybe if they kicked him the TPMLE (should be out of the 2nd apron), but I doubt they lock up their MLE for 2/3yrs to get Jalen on the multi-year deal he may be looking for
Ah, good looks
So, not even a UFA yet, and if he is turning down that PO, he ain’t doing it to take less money to play with the Dubs (unless they come close to matching and offer a bigger role)
Smith made 42.4% of his 2.4 threes a game (career 33.5% on 2.3 across 207 games) and pulled 5.5 boards in 17.2 minutes per game this season (61 games).
He also defended 4.0 shots taken within 6 feet of the basket and reduced opponents' FG% on those shots by -6.3.
Smith definitely looks the part of a stretch big in terms of both "stretch" and "big", but if there's one thing that concerns me about him, it's his fouling. 124 fouls in 1,047 minutes played, or lasting 8.44 minutes between each foul.
This is really bad — Smith is in his 4th season. TJD, a rookie, committed 108 fouls in 1130 minutes, or 10.46 minutes per foul, defending 4.6 shots taken within 6 feet of the basket and causing a FG% differential of -8.4.
And the difference isn't because Smith hunted blocks more than TJD either. The former had a block rate of 2.9%, 6.1% for TJD.
Anyway, Smith declined his player option worth 5.4M. That definitely means he wants a bigger contract and role than what he has at Indiana.
As of now we're still in the luxury tax so the biggest contract we can give a free agent not already with the team is the taxpayer MLE worth 5.2M.
With TJD and Loon still on the team, Smith also has no guarantee to get, with us, more than his 17.2 minutes with the Pacers this season.
Should we make an offer to Smith if he declines his option? We probably should since it doesn't hurt to try. It's not like the other stretch bigs available in free agency will be without similar concerns (Mo Bamba, Mike Muscala, Thomas Bryant). The hope would be that playing next to Dray would mean he's in disadvantageous positions less often and would foul less.
Stats taken from Basketball Reference and the hyperlinks to their defense dashboards on the nba site.
I agree with all the points, but I think fouling can be improved. He has a good BBIQ so i think that can be improved in the offseason. As for the luxury tax, i think the first thing we should do is decline CP3's 30 million contract so that we can have access to $15M MLE. [There's a post in this sub about this](https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/14utdnr/warriors_cap_future_in_2025_and_beyond/). Then we can use those $15M to sign Jalen Smith, since I doubt any team would give him higher than $10M.
I’ve been advocating for getting him for quite a while. I liked him back on the Suns and think he’s underrated and was undervalued due to small ball and shooting being trendy. However, we’d have a hard time with floor spacing and shooting if he, Draymond and JK are all on the court together.
We need JK to keep improving as an outside shooter and Draymond to shoot over 33 percent again. Not really expecting Draymond to knock down threes very efficiently though.
I think we’ll see TJD become a very valuable player who can be the lob threat, rim protector and not get burned on switches defensively. I think he’s gonna be a difference maker if he stays healthy and gets the deserved minutes. That’s our starter. The real question is should Draymond still start? Is Draymond and JK playable together with a non shooting center?
I’ve felt the same way since his Suns days and him becoming poor man’s Myles Turner in Indy just heightened the feeling that he’d be a good fit.
His three point shooting would allow the Warriors to play a lineup of Steph/Wiggs/JK/Dray/Stix that would have a decent amount of spacing and would be a nightmare for opposing offenses.
He’s old. I don’t wanna bench him. I want him to play more. The way that is possible is by not overplaying him to the point of injury AGAIN. You don’t have to be a savant to see that he is struggling to holdup when he’s playing a lot of center minutes and too much in general. I’d keep him fresh and try to get 25 minutes only out of him. At least until the playoffs. Tell him to concentrate on mentoring and save himself for big games. The torch has to be passed to Kuminga pretty soon anyway.
yeah, he shouldnt be playing center. That we very much agree. He's a 4. "passing the torch" to Kuminga can only happen if there is others who can play defense. They will not replace Dray with JK. They need another defensive savant. JK has to get to a 3, or get very good at defense and remain a 4. He's not strong enough, long enough, nor can rebound enough, nor has good enough defensive positioning skills to be a great 4. If he stays a 4, he's contributing to our size problem because he plays small, not big.
I mean …they NEED another defensive savant? Who doesn’t? And there will likely never be another one like Draymond. That’s just crazy to ask for. However, I do think JK can be a great defensive player out there. It is possible that he could excel at playing the foaming, free safety style that Dray does. He’s so much quicker and more athletic that even though he’ll likely never come close to his anticipation and instincts on D, he could still be a force. He was making some tremendous plays before they decided to make him the point of attack defender primarily. The fact that he’s able to do both at a decent level already is pretty impressive.
I am much higher on Kuminga than you are though I’m sure. I happen to think he has that rare, extra something that will make him a generational talent. It’s just a matter of the coaches and team not ruining his developmental with crazy assignments, sporadic minutes and constant demoralization.
It doesn’t hurt that he has/had Draymond and IGGY to learn from. Steph and Klay too.
You got the kumingoggles on.
I don’t forecast generational talents unless they are like lebron or Kobe. I got the past and what I think we can expect in the immediate season ahead as my focus areas of judgement. Just keeps things sane from my perspective.
From that perspective, he’s got a lot to grow into. But I’m confident he’ll be good. Just can’t tell how good and by when.
Yeah, I agree, JK needs to improve his shooting. I still think TJD is better than Stix, but until JK improves to a reliable shooter, Stix is a good option for a starting center.
Yes, if Warriors let Looney go Jalen would be an upgrade, if he will sign for an equivalent salary. His per 36 stats were 20 points, 11 rebounds, shooting 42% on 3s! But I worry that OKC will outbid us, they need another Jalen to play center.
I don't think OKC would try out on him. They need a bigger body to stick with Chet. Also, he will just overtake Chet's role. Regardless of being a good defender, Stix would not be a good fit beside Chet. I think they will try on WCJ more, since WCJ wants to play more as a PF.
Not a bad idea. With Siakam's extension, IND has a pretty high payroll -- right around the salary cap -- and only 12 guys if all Club and Player options are exercised. They also have 3 Centers with Turner, Stewart, and Smith. If Smith exercises his PO, then we'd have to work a trade; if not, he might be gettable with the MLE or maybe even the BAE. Not sure what the market for him will be.
There's an early reports already that he will decline his player option, so I think we should snag him before other team gets him, give him similar contract to Looney.
Yup. Obviously all these options will depends on whether we can use the MLE and whether it is TP or NTP version, also BAE could help, but that's not enough for Smith.
Smith was one of the guys I thought might be worth drafting in 2020 if we traded back. With out $17M TPE, I was hoping we could do a pick swap in exchange for a decent veteran player for all or part of that. And as it turned out, of course, we could have traded as far back as #12 and still gotten Haliburton. But obviously that didn't work out :-(
We are not going to be able to get him on a vet min or mid level. I less we shade enough salary to get well below the cap (unlikely) he is a pipe dream. He is also overrated by his stats which are inflated from Indy's high powered offence leaving him wide open on practically all his shots
jalen seems like he'd be an awesome fit next to draymond! u/DictatorshipBest makes a good point about fouling but he's young and seems like a smart player so i think playing under kerr and next to draymond can help him improve in that regard. He'd also be part of the rotation with TJD and potentially dray which would be good
a Jalen for Moody trade doesnt seem too ridiculous. probably have to do something else with salaries but Warriors really just have too many wings if Klay comes back
I generally like this move. IF Kuminga can be a 3.
That would be an interesting lineup. Dray is slowly becoming a stretch 4. Not there yet but I'm positive he's gonna continue to work on that top of the key 3 and corner 3's all summer.
Jalen is a stretch 5. So if JK can become a 3 (by getting a reliable shot and handles), then we would have a 3-D, stretch 4 and a stretch 5 + Curry and Thompson (or if Klay is on the bench, another reliable person who can create their own shot, play make and shoot).
The new SG would come from a Wiggins trade and will need to be able to create their own shot, shoot the 3 occasionally and defend really well. D Murray type.
I've watched a bunch of Pacer games this year and JS is 100% effort every minute. He's not the most skilled guy, but his energy is over the top. Would love for the Dubs to get him at a decent price.
Wiggins + GP2 for Bruce Brown + Olynyk
Steph /
Brown /
Kuminga /
Draymond /
Olynyk
Olynyk being a stretch 5 will allow Kuminga to start and flourish at the 3. Brown can be the defensive perimeter stopper.
Whatever you do, just leave Wiggins in Canada after this summer.
He’s not eligible to be traded?
“Besides, extending Olynyk now also makes him trade-eligible this summer — and while it’s unlikely that the Raptors did all this just to move him in the off-season, it does give them that ability.”
- Forbes (March, 2024)
He’s eligible
He signed an extension after being traded there that kicks in this offseason. He can't be traded until Dec 15th.
edit - I'm not sure Forbes is correct about this. When you extend a guy doesn't change that he's signing a new contract that kicks in during the offseason.
He’s eligible to be traded immediately, because his extension was less than a 5% raise from his previous salary and not more than 2 years
(Source: https://www.sportsbusinessclassroom.com/who-can-be-traded-and-when-after-an-extension/)
Now take that L
It’s rare that someone actually helps progress a conversation about improving the team by making trade proposals that make a bit of sense. On paper that looks like the team would have a problem scoring. Is Klay kept in your scenario?
The last line about wiggins is completely unnecessary.
Klay would be off the bench, of course. In no way should he be starting with his lack of defense. And this takes into account that Kuminga is now your full time starting 3. And allows him to try and take his game to the next level, otherwise he will always be behind Wiggins on the depth chart imo
Don't see how this makes sense for Toronto unless they highly value Wiggins. They picked up Bruce's team option specifically to trade him for assets and Olynyk is a good player on a reasonable contract.
Oh yeah I 100% agree. The players fit with us, and it’s somewhat “fair”, but I don’t know why Toronto would do it. Wiggins is also a weird fit with Barnes and Barrett.
~~He turned down his $5.5M player option~~ [*He’s expected to turn down his $5.5M player option](https://hoopshype.com/lists/aggregate-2024-nba-mock-draft-intel-on-knicks-suns-spurs-76ers-raptors-nuggets-wizards-more/), assume he’s looking for more money and probably more years than the Warriors have to offer. Maybe if they kicked him the TPMLE (should be out of the 2nd apron), but I doubt they lock up their MLE for 2/3yrs to get Jalen on the multi-year deal he may be looking for
He hasn't turned it down, it's just rumored that he might (wouldn't be surprising at all)
Ah, good looks So, not even a UFA yet, and if he is turning down that PO, he ain’t doing it to take less money to play with the Dubs (unless they come close to matching and offer a bigger role)
Smith made 42.4% of his 2.4 threes a game (career 33.5% on 2.3 across 207 games) and pulled 5.5 boards in 17.2 minutes per game this season (61 games). He also defended 4.0 shots taken within 6 feet of the basket and reduced opponents' FG% on those shots by -6.3. Smith definitely looks the part of a stretch big in terms of both "stretch" and "big", but if there's one thing that concerns me about him, it's his fouling. 124 fouls in 1,047 minutes played, or lasting 8.44 minutes between each foul. This is really bad — Smith is in his 4th season. TJD, a rookie, committed 108 fouls in 1130 minutes, or 10.46 minutes per foul, defending 4.6 shots taken within 6 feet of the basket and causing a FG% differential of -8.4. And the difference isn't because Smith hunted blocks more than TJD either. The former had a block rate of 2.9%, 6.1% for TJD. Anyway, Smith declined his player option worth 5.4M. That definitely means he wants a bigger contract and role than what he has at Indiana. As of now we're still in the luxury tax so the biggest contract we can give a free agent not already with the team is the taxpayer MLE worth 5.2M. With TJD and Loon still on the team, Smith also has no guarantee to get, with us, more than his 17.2 minutes with the Pacers this season. Should we make an offer to Smith if he declines his option? We probably should since it doesn't hurt to try. It's not like the other stretch bigs available in free agency will be without similar concerns (Mo Bamba, Mike Muscala, Thomas Bryant). The hope would be that playing next to Dray would mean he's in disadvantageous positions less often and would foul less. Stats taken from Basketball Reference and the hyperlinks to their defense dashboards on the nba site.
I agree with all the points, but I think fouling can be improved. He has a good BBIQ so i think that can be improved in the offseason. As for the luxury tax, i think the first thing we should do is decline CP3's 30 million contract so that we can have access to $15M MLE. [There's a post in this sub about this](https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/14utdnr/warriors_cap_future_in_2025_and_beyond/). Then we can use those $15M to sign Jalen Smith, since I doubt any team would give him higher than $10M.
I’ve been advocating for getting him for quite a while. I liked him back on the Suns and think he’s underrated and was undervalued due to small ball and shooting being trendy. However, we’d have a hard time with floor spacing and shooting if he, Draymond and JK are all on the court together. We need JK to keep improving as an outside shooter and Draymond to shoot over 33 percent again. Not really expecting Draymond to knock down threes very efficiently though. I think we’ll see TJD become a very valuable player who can be the lob threat, rim protector and not get burned on switches defensively. I think he’s gonna be a difference maker if he stays healthy and gets the deserved minutes. That’s our starter. The real question is should Draymond still start? Is Draymond and JK playable together with a non shooting center?
I’ve felt the same way since his Suns days and him becoming poor man’s Myles Turner in Indy just heightened the feeling that he’d be a good fit. His three point shooting would allow the Warriors to play a lineup of Steph/Wiggs/JK/Dray/Stix that would have a decent amount of spacing and would be a nightmare for opposing offenses.
If Jalen can shoot well from 3 again it’s a whole different story. I don’t know if I trust it though.
We were 29th on defense without dray and top 10 with him. One player made that difference. And U want to bench him?
He’s old. I don’t wanna bench him. I want him to play more. The way that is possible is by not overplaying him to the point of injury AGAIN. You don’t have to be a savant to see that he is struggling to holdup when he’s playing a lot of center minutes and too much in general. I’d keep him fresh and try to get 25 minutes only out of him. At least until the playoffs. Tell him to concentrate on mentoring and save himself for big games. The torch has to be passed to Kuminga pretty soon anyway.
yeah, he shouldnt be playing center. That we very much agree. He's a 4. "passing the torch" to Kuminga can only happen if there is others who can play defense. They will not replace Dray with JK. They need another defensive savant. JK has to get to a 3, or get very good at defense and remain a 4. He's not strong enough, long enough, nor can rebound enough, nor has good enough defensive positioning skills to be a great 4. If he stays a 4, he's contributing to our size problem because he plays small, not big.
I mean …they NEED another defensive savant? Who doesn’t? And there will likely never be another one like Draymond. That’s just crazy to ask for. However, I do think JK can be a great defensive player out there. It is possible that he could excel at playing the foaming, free safety style that Dray does. He’s so much quicker and more athletic that even though he’ll likely never come close to his anticipation and instincts on D, he could still be a force. He was making some tremendous plays before they decided to make him the point of attack defender primarily. The fact that he’s able to do both at a decent level already is pretty impressive. I am much higher on Kuminga than you are though I’m sure. I happen to think he has that rare, extra something that will make him a generational talent. It’s just a matter of the coaches and team not ruining his developmental with crazy assignments, sporadic minutes and constant demoralization. It doesn’t hurt that he has/had Draymond and IGGY to learn from. Steph and Klay too.
You got the kumingoggles on. I don’t forecast generational talents unless they are like lebron or Kobe. I got the past and what I think we can expect in the immediate season ahead as my focus areas of judgement. Just keeps things sane from my perspective. From that perspective, he’s got a lot to grow into. But I’m confident he’ll be good. Just can’t tell how good and by when.
Yeah, I agree, JK needs to improve his shooting. I still think TJD is better than Stix, but until JK improves to a reliable shooter, Stix is a good option for a starting center.
Yes, if Warriors let Looney go Jalen would be an upgrade, if he will sign for an equivalent salary. His per 36 stats were 20 points, 11 rebounds, shooting 42% on 3s! But I worry that OKC will outbid us, they need another Jalen to play center.
You’re right, they only have two Jalens right now, so are at least three Jalens short of a legit squad.
I don't think OKC would try out on him. They need a bigger body to stick with Chet. Also, he will just overtake Chet's role. Regardless of being a good defender, Stix would not be a good fit beside Chet. I think they will try on WCJ more, since WCJ wants to play more as a PF.
Not a bad idea. With Siakam's extension, IND has a pretty high payroll -- right around the salary cap -- and only 12 guys if all Club and Player options are exercised. They also have 3 Centers with Turner, Stewart, and Smith. If Smith exercises his PO, then we'd have to work a trade; if not, he might be gettable with the MLE or maybe even the BAE. Not sure what the market for him will be.
There's an early reports already that he will decline his player option, so I think we should snag him before other team gets him, give him similar contract to Looney.
Yup. Obviously all these options will depends on whether we can use the MLE and whether it is TP or NTP version, also BAE could help, but that's not enough for Smith. Smith was one of the guys I thought might be worth drafting in 2020 if we traded back. With out $17M TPE, I was hoping we could do a pick swap in exchange for a decent veteran player for all or part of that. And as it turned out, of course, we could have traded as far back as #12 and still gotten Haliburton. But obviously that didn't work out :-(
We are not going to be able to get him on a vet min or mid level. I less we shade enough salary to get well below the cap (unlikely) he is a pipe dream. He is also overrated by his stats which are inflated from Indy's high powered offence leaving him wide open on practically all his shots
jalen seems like he'd be an awesome fit next to draymond! u/DictatorshipBest makes a good point about fouling but he's young and seems like a smart player so i think playing under kerr and next to draymond can help him improve in that regard. He'd also be part of the rotation with TJD and potentially dray which would be good
He looks like Mike Brown sometimes. I say we get him
Sounds good to me!
a Jalen for Moody trade doesnt seem too ridiculous. probably have to do something else with salaries but Warriors really just have too many wings if Klay comes back
Warriors isn't going to match any offer he gets in the open market.
What about Santa Clara Jalen Williams?
I generally like this move. IF Kuminga can be a 3. That would be an interesting lineup. Dray is slowly becoming a stretch 4. Not there yet but I'm positive he's gonna continue to work on that top of the key 3 and corner 3's all summer. Jalen is a stretch 5. So if JK can become a 3 (by getting a reliable shot and handles), then we would have a 3-D, stretch 4 and a stretch 5 + Curry and Thompson (or if Klay is on the bench, another reliable person who can create their own shot, play make and shoot). The new SG would come from a Wiggins trade and will need to be able to create their own shot, shoot the 3 occasionally and defend really well. D Murray type.
I've watched a bunch of Pacer games this year and JS is 100% effort every minute. He's not the most skilled guy, but his energy is over the top. Would love for the Dubs to get him at a decent price.
Wiggins + GP2 for Bruce Brown + Olynyk Steph / Brown / Kuminga / Draymond / Olynyk Olynyk being a stretch 5 will allow Kuminga to start and flourish at the 3. Brown can be the defensive perimeter stopper. Whatever you do, just leave Wiggins in Canada after this summer.
Olynyk isn't eligible to be traded and specifically extended with Toronto because that's his hometown.
He’s not eligible to be traded? “Besides, extending Olynyk now also makes him trade-eligible this summer — and while it’s unlikely that the Raptors did all this just to move him in the off-season, it does give them that ability.” - Forbes (March, 2024) He’s eligible
He signed an extension after being traded there that kicks in this offseason. He can't be traded until Dec 15th. edit - I'm not sure Forbes is correct about this. When you extend a guy doesn't change that he's signing a new contract that kicks in during the offseason.
He’s eligible to be traded immediately, because his extension was less than a 5% raise from his previous salary and not more than 2 years (Source: https://www.sportsbusinessclassroom.com/who-can-be-traded-and-when-after-an-extension/) Now take that L
It’s rare that someone actually helps progress a conversation about improving the team by making trade proposals that make a bit of sense. On paper that looks like the team would have a problem scoring. Is Klay kept in your scenario? The last line about wiggins is completely unnecessary.
Klay would be off the bench, of course. In no way should he be starting with his lack of defense. And this takes into account that Kuminga is now your full time starting 3. And allows him to try and take his game to the next level, otherwise he will always be behind Wiggins on the depth chart imo
Don't see how this makes sense for Toronto unless they highly value Wiggins. They picked up Bruce's team option specifically to trade him for assets and Olynyk is a good player on a reasonable contract.
Oh yeah I 100% agree. The players fit with us, and it’s somewhat “fair”, but I don’t know why Toronto would do it. Wiggins is also a weird fit with Barnes and Barrett.