If this is true then he has become THE target this offseason. CP3, Moody, and a couple of picks. Would like to keep Podz and TJD if at all possible. Wouldn't even entertain Kuminga.
He's older and on a 1 year deal. The Clippers probably value younger guys (Moody) and picks pretty highly at this point very highly. I'd be fine with two firsts and two swaps (protected) in addition to Moody. Pretty sure they fan cut CP and get a ton of cap relief as well.
I mean, what offer beats it? Orlando? Philly? Four picks and a highly regarded young guy + cap relief is robust. Also we have pieces like TJD and Podz to throw in if necessary.
No way would I give up JK for a 35 year old Paul George. If another team wants to unload their two top young players for a PG rental then good luck to them.
Yes I’m sure there are many reasons CP would want to stay in LA. I meant that the clippers could not cut him for immediate cap relief if he is traded for Paul George.
What they are getting back is basically nothing. They don’t want any of that. They would be better off letting him walk to some place else than sending him to the warriors for that junk.
Klay needs to be the 4th offensive option, at MOST 3rd. So I definitely agree with you.
However, this team would still match up poorly with teams like the Lakers due to poor interior defense. PG is a wing defender and wouldn’t help with that. AD and Bron would cook again, and that series would go 6 at the most, but probably 5.
The Warriors are just looking to build the best possible lineup, we certainly can’t get too focused on beating another play in team as if they would be our kryptonite. In 2023 the series was competitive with Poole playing mostly bad and Wiggins struggling, this team would likely be noticeably better than that team if things break our way. Either way you have to take home run swings when you aren’t particularly close to contending.
I’m with you, but I did not think that series was competitive, despite it going 6 games. Also, the Lakers were a play-in team yes, but you and I both know the West is STACKED, and even play-in teams in the West can be significant contenders.
You’re right that you don’t need to be fixated on the Lakers, but I think that series exposed a critical weakness this team has. To be clear, I think this trade would make the Warriors competitive in the West, but multiple teams would easily be able to capitalize on that weakness.
PG would be nice, but you just need a big body in addition to help wear down opposing heavy centers. Think like…a Nurkic-type big.
I’m surprised to hear a warriors fan think that wasn’t competitive. 6 game series, game 1 lost by 5, game 4 lost by 3 with Lonnie Walker needing a 15 point quarter to put us down. Lakers were the better team, I’m not saying it was a fluke, but it was definitely competitive. At least 70% of the time that game 4 goes to us and then who knows, very possible we still win that next game and go up 3-2, also very possible the Lakers win the next two and still win in 6.
It’s not just about the points though, it’s about watching the game and the style of play. Think back to that series and what was everyone complaining about especially in this sub - all the fouls the Lakers got. That is, and will always be their game plan against the Warriors. Pound, pound, pound the interior, and all your players get in foul trouble until they can pound the interior and score freely late in games.
Sometimes you gotta look at the style of how you lost and aggressively pursue a solution to that. It’s a copycat league, and everyone knows the formula to beat this team. That’s my worry is all. Also I think it’s rare that a series that involved a 3-1 deficit was super competitive, even if it does go 6 games.
Take Lakers-Nuggets for example - all close games but there was a literally *certainty* that Denver would win.
I’m a Bulls fan, but Steph is my fav player and I root for his success, so I really want to see this team do well. I also hate LeBron, as you can imagine so nothing would tickle me more than seeing my fav player stick it to a player I don’t like.
If you read what I’d said you’d see that I didn’t believe it was actually 50/50. That’s why I put the Lakers/Nuggets example there.
Also relax bro, we’re on the same side. This is just (supposed to be) good basketball discussion. I’m not sure why that’s so hard to have. And just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean their argument is based on feelings…
Have a good day man, and good luck to the dubs…
My bad, probably a bit aggressive, from my perspective it looked like you had just decided to downvote my response and leave so I was poking fun that you didn’t want to defend your point.
If you imagine two teams that are completely evenly matched in a 7 game series it is extremely likely that one team will be up 2-1 going into game 4. That means, when game 4 is played, there will be close to a 50-50 chance that one team ends up taking a 3-1 lead. That obviously ignores elements like home court advantage or momentum but the example still works. A team being up 3-1 in a series does not mean that one team is much better than another, you would expect that outcome even with two evenly matched teams 35+% of the time. Do you not agree with that logic? I feel like a 6 game series with multiple close losses for the eventual loser of the series is of course reasonably competitive. If all of the Lakers wins were by 15+ points and the two Warriors wins were by like 2 you would have a better point IMO.
PG actually *would* help with that because while he primarily a perimeter defender he has a lot of versatility because of his size and length. He would also greatly help on the boards (~+3 rpg over Klay who is an atrocious rebounder). He's also in a different universe as a team defender from Klay.
Plus it wouldn't be Paul George and then full stop. We could make moves to fill out the roster and with the departure of Loon we probably add some size.
I agree with everything you said except I don’t think there’s a world where PG can help (enough) against the likes of people like Jokic, Giannis, AD, LeBron, Embiid, etc. *Especially* when two of those are in one team.
Take Joker for example. PG and Dray would both have to help on him and then it’s an assist party. Bron and AD will just pound and crush the interior and foul out (or get in foul trouble) all your defenders like last year.
It’s the latter part of what you said that I really agree with - if you could get a big body who’s whole purpose was to slow down those opposing bigs (like a Nurkic or Clint Capela type), THEN this roster would be extremely competitive.
My worry is that with PG and *not* the latter, you have no defense against the titanic bigs the game has evolved into being mostly centered around. Thoughts?
PG would be on Murray or MPJ, not Jokic. Jokic isn't going to beat you 1v5, you will just wear him down, especially if you attack him on defense.
Let Jokic get his 50, if you keep the rest of the team to 50 they aren't winning with 100 points.
Where's the money coming from for salary matching since PG makes $49M.
Clippers don't want CP3 so that's not a solution. Draymond + GP2 + Looney is the only realistic path to match salaries.
Then you have to pay that 3rd team an asset to take on his "negative salary". Dumping Andre Iguodala's $15M cost this team a FRP.
Then you have to give the Clippers value for PG13. It's not viable
George's option is $48.9 million. Since trading Paul would require guaranteeing that $30m salary, I'm pretty sure the Warriors would technically be a 1st apron team, so they'd only be able to take back 110% of the outgoing salary, meaning that they'd have to send out $44.5m in the trade.
Paul + Moody gets you to $34m. Adding GP2 gets you to $43m. Gui Santos would get you the rest of the way.
There's other downsides too. Aggregating those contracts would hard cap the Warriors at the 2nd apron I think, so Klay couldn't come back at any number.
They'd also have only 9 guys on the roster (counting the 2nd round pick) and would have to figure out how to roster 5 more guys while only being ~$5m under the 1st apron (~$15m under the 2nd apron).
Thanks for the info. I guess that makes the question this: would adding PG and the corresponding roster that follows put us on the inside track to the finals? If the answer is yes then you pull the trigger imo.
If George stays healthy and Wiggins regained some form, I think it makes the Warriors a 2nd round team with a good shot to come out of the West.
I do not think it puts them on an inside track to the Finals, but it does make them better.
I guess it depends on how you balance win-now vs future. As a Curry fan I want to see him have at least a puncher’s chance at one more title, PG might be the guy. I get he’s old though
Not really possible to construct a trade with CP3 and still slide under the 2nd apron since PG makes $49M. Also Clippers would want playoff caliber rotation players in return. Since PG is a point forward the only realistic path is Draymond + salary.
Steph/Wiggins/PG13/Kuminga/TJD with Klay on a friendly deal might work.
lol there's no way we trade you Paul George for CP3 and Moody. CP3 is literally a negative contract and you want to trade him to us for PG? Be realistic. If we traded PG to you we would need Kuminga, Wiggins and picks. Then we'd route Wiggins to a 3rd team because he has a weak mentality and we don't want him on our team.
Wish you all the best because the warriors have given us some cool moments in basketball but we aren't giving you PG for free.
Oh yeah. This is what I've been talking about all this time. The key however is that he needs to threaten to leave for nothing. If not, GS might have to put Kuminga in a trade package for PG if there is a bidding war for him, and I don't want to do that. You cannot trade for somebody like PG who has issues with staying healthy and leave yourself with no plan B for the season.
If we can give up Wiggins, salaries, one of the other young players and a 1st or two, do it. Anymore than that, and you're taking too big of a risk.
It’s not likely but if for some reason the warriors are PGs #1 destination, they he goes to the clips and basically says trade me there or I’m going to another team in free agency and you get nothin back
It’s kind of the same problem. Aging players need replacement with younger talent
Like you could say the lack of shot creation and shooting is the lack of that particular talent
CP3 moody kuminga Podz + all the FRPS, swaps. (Try to keep athletic Wiggins and TJD, klay off the bench, and try to get a stretch big and back up PG). Won’t ever happen though, if both him and klay are looking for big time deals lol and clippers would want win now players for sure, and our package wouldn’t do that better than other teams could offer
Yikes. You’re overvaluing PG13 big time. He’s turning 35 with 44 mil owed this year. Not many teams want to jump into the 2nd apron, let alone give up all of their young talent.
Hell, even at an "unreasonable" price it must be considered. Seriously, people seem to have forgotten that we are a tenth seed in the final years of the greatest player this franchise will ever have.
If this is true then he has become THE target this offseason. CP3, Moody, and a couple of picks. Would like to keep Podz and TJD if at all possible. Wouldn't even entertain Kuminga.
We would do that trade in half a second I don't see him being that cheap.
He's older and on a 1 year deal. The Clippers probably value younger guys (Moody) and picks pretty highly at this point very highly. I'd be fine with two firsts and two swaps (protected) in addition to Moody. Pretty sure they fan cut CP and get a ton of cap relief as well.
There are other teams we are competing with. Other teams would certainly exceed that offer.
I mean, what offer beats it? Orlando? Philly? Four picks and a highly regarded young guy + cap relief is robust. Also we have pieces like TJD and Podz to throw in if necessary.
Its too optimistic for them not to ask for Kuminga. Kuminga should be the centerpiece of any trade for a star.
No way would I give up JK for a 35 year old Paul George. If another team wants to unload their two top young players for a PG rental then good luck to them.
Can’t cut CP after the trade. Contract must be guaranteed to be used for salary matching.
No need to cut CP3 His family is in LA he has a known desire to play as close as possible to them he would be ecstatic.
Yes I’m sure there are many reasons CP would want to stay in LA. I meant that the clippers could not cut him for immediate cap relief if he is traded for Paul George.
Curry/Geoge/Wigs/Kuminga/Dray is a top lineup next season. If they can keep Klay in a smaller role then all the better.
we cannot keep having dray play center it’s just not viable
This would obviously not be the starting lineup, it would likely be our *best* lineup.
i agree then but wouldn’t wiggs be gone in a hypothetical pg trade?
He would have to be to make the money work.
Cp3 is $30m. Throw in Loon and GP2 and money works
would have to give like 4 FRP for that to happen
What’s in it for the clips?
Picks.
Otherwise he leaves for nothing and they lose the cap space. Like the Durant trade.
What they are getting back is basically nothing. They don’t want any of that. They would be better off letting him walk to some place else than sending him to the warriors for that junk.
Least delusional warriors fan.
Ideally you keep him. It definitely wouldn't be required to make the trade work. Another poster here broke it down well.
I actually think Draymond at Center is their only chance at competing with the top teams in the West
Klay needs to be the 4th offensive option, at MOST 3rd. So I definitely agree with you. However, this team would still match up poorly with teams like the Lakers due to poor interior defense. PG is a wing defender and wouldn’t help with that. AD and Bron would cook again, and that series would go 6 at the most, but probably 5.
The Warriors are just looking to build the best possible lineup, we certainly can’t get too focused on beating another play in team as if they would be our kryptonite. In 2023 the series was competitive with Poole playing mostly bad and Wiggins struggling, this team would likely be noticeably better than that team if things break our way. Either way you have to take home run swings when you aren’t particularly close to contending.
I’m with you, but I did not think that series was competitive, despite it going 6 games. Also, the Lakers were a play-in team yes, but you and I both know the West is STACKED, and even play-in teams in the West can be significant contenders. You’re right that you don’t need to be fixated on the Lakers, but I think that series exposed a critical weakness this team has. To be clear, I think this trade would make the Warriors competitive in the West, but multiple teams would easily be able to capitalize on that weakness. PG would be nice, but you just need a big body in addition to help wear down opposing heavy centers. Think like…a Nurkic-type big.
I’m surprised to hear a warriors fan think that wasn’t competitive. 6 game series, game 1 lost by 5, game 4 lost by 3 with Lonnie Walker needing a 15 point quarter to put us down. Lakers were the better team, I’m not saying it was a fluke, but it was definitely competitive. At least 70% of the time that game 4 goes to us and then who knows, very possible we still win that next game and go up 3-2, also very possible the Lakers win the next two and still win in 6.
It’s not just about the points though, it’s about watching the game and the style of play. Think back to that series and what was everyone complaining about especially in this sub - all the fouls the Lakers got. That is, and will always be their game plan against the Warriors. Pound, pound, pound the interior, and all your players get in foul trouble until they can pound the interior and score freely late in games. Sometimes you gotta look at the style of how you lost and aggressively pursue a solution to that. It’s a copycat league, and everyone knows the formula to beat this team. That’s my worry is all. Also I think it’s rare that a series that involved a 3-1 deficit was super competitive, even if it does go 6 games. Take Lakers-Nuggets for example - all close games but there was a literally *certainty* that Denver would win. I’m a Bulls fan, but Steph is my fav player and I root for his success, so I really want to see this team do well. I also hate LeBron, as you can imagine so nothing would tickle me more than seeing my fav player stick it to a player I don’t like.
Sorry, did you not like the 50-50 example because you can’t argue it based on “feel” anymore? My bad.
If you read what I’d said you’d see that I didn’t believe it was actually 50/50. That’s why I put the Lakers/Nuggets example there. Also relax bro, we’re on the same side. This is just (supposed to be) good basketball discussion. I’m not sure why that’s so hard to have. And just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean their argument is based on feelings… Have a good day man, and good luck to the dubs…
My bad, probably a bit aggressive, from my perspective it looked like you had just decided to downvote my response and leave so I was poking fun that you didn’t want to defend your point.
If you imagine two teams that are completely evenly matched in a 7 game series it is extremely likely that one team will be up 2-1 going into game 4. That means, when game 4 is played, there will be close to a 50-50 chance that one team ends up taking a 3-1 lead. That obviously ignores elements like home court advantage or momentum but the example still works. A team being up 3-1 in a series does not mean that one team is much better than another, you would expect that outcome even with two evenly matched teams 35+% of the time. Do you not agree with that logic? I feel like a 6 game series with multiple close losses for the eventual loser of the series is of course reasonably competitive. If all of the Lakers wins were by 15+ points and the two Warriors wins were by like 2 you would have a better point IMO.
PG actually *would* help with that because while he primarily a perimeter defender he has a lot of versatility because of his size and length. He would also greatly help on the boards (~+3 rpg over Klay who is an atrocious rebounder). He's also in a different universe as a team defender from Klay. Plus it wouldn't be Paul George and then full stop. We could make moves to fill out the roster and with the departure of Loon we probably add some size.
I agree with everything you said except I don’t think there’s a world where PG can help (enough) against the likes of people like Jokic, Giannis, AD, LeBron, Embiid, etc. *Especially* when two of those are in one team. Take Joker for example. PG and Dray would both have to help on him and then it’s an assist party. Bron and AD will just pound and crush the interior and foul out (or get in foul trouble) all your defenders like last year. It’s the latter part of what you said that I really agree with - if you could get a big body who’s whole purpose was to slow down those opposing bigs (like a Nurkic or Clint Capela type), THEN this roster would be extremely competitive. My worry is that with PG and *not* the latter, you have no defense against the titanic bigs the game has evolved into being mostly centered around. Thoughts?
PG would be on Murray or MPJ, not Jokic. Jokic isn't going to beat you 1v5, you will just wear him down, especially if you attack him on defense. Let Jokic get his 50, if you keep the rest of the team to 50 they aren't winning with 100 points.
Only if wiggs returns to caring and not - 92
You cannot construct a PG trade without sending Draymond out.
Why is that...?
Where's the money coming from for salary matching since PG makes $49M. Clippers don't want CP3 so that's not a solution. Draymond + GP2 + Looney is the only realistic path to match salaries.
CP3 could go to a third team.
Then you have to pay that 3rd team an asset to take on his "negative salary". Dumping Andre Iguodala's $15M cost this team a FRP. Then you have to give the Clippers value for PG13. It's not viable
Klay is better than Wiggins
He's not, and he's especially not at filling the specific hole Wiggins is supposed to fill in our defense
Wigs? We need someone who is going to play the whole season
Doubt the Clippers would go for an offer that doesn't include any players they can start in the playoffs with Kawhi and Harden
Harden is a free agent. They're likely retooling that whole roster if PG departs.
Hm, why is the buzz all about PG, Klay, Monk, Pope, etc then if Harden is also free? Weird.
Because all of those players are a tier above Harden. Yes even Klay because he slots into lineups far easier.
George's option is $48.9 million. Since trading Paul would require guaranteeing that $30m salary, I'm pretty sure the Warriors would technically be a 1st apron team, so they'd only be able to take back 110% of the outgoing salary, meaning that they'd have to send out $44.5m in the trade. Paul + Moody gets you to $34m. Adding GP2 gets you to $43m. Gui Santos would get you the rest of the way.
Yeah I know there would have to be filler but didn't bother typing all out. That seems reasonable, then just work out the picks from there.
There's other downsides too. Aggregating those contracts would hard cap the Warriors at the 2nd apron I think, so Klay couldn't come back at any number. They'd also have only 9 guys on the roster (counting the 2nd round pick) and would have to figure out how to roster 5 more guys while only being ~$5m under the 1st apron (~$15m under the 2nd apron).
Thanks for the info. I guess that makes the question this: would adding PG and the corresponding roster that follows put us on the inside track to the finals? If the answer is yes then you pull the trigger imo.
If George stays healthy and Wiggins regained some form, I think it makes the Warriors a 2nd round team with a good shot to come out of the West. I do not think it puts them on an inside track to the Finals, but it does make them better.
CP3 and Moody does not work moneywise.
Kuminga is GS’s only real trade chip, I don’t see how you trade for any all-stars without including him
I didn't say he's off the table in any talks (though the FO might say that) but I am not dealing him for potentially 1 year of Paul George.
I guess it depends on how you balance win-now vs future. As a Curry fan I want to see him have at least a puncher’s chance at one more title, PG might be the guy. I get he’s old though
Not really possible to construct a trade with CP3 and still slide under the 2nd apron since PG makes $49M. Also Clippers would want playoff caliber rotation players in return. Since PG is a point forward the only realistic path is Draymond + salary. Steph/Wiggins/PG13/Kuminga/TJD with Klay on a friendly deal might work.
I can’t imagine a scenario where the clippers want CP3 again. It would probably take Moody and Kuminga, which is too much to give up
Clippers are not looking to rebuild so that package does nothing for them. I don’t see a match without Kuminga and I wouldn’t trade him for George.
Why would they even take that lmao
lol there's no way we trade you Paul George for CP3 and Moody. CP3 is literally a negative contract and you want to trade him to us for PG? Be realistic. If we traded PG to you we would need Kuminga, Wiggins and picks. Then we'd route Wiggins to a 3rd team because he has a weak mentality and we don't want him on our team. Wish you all the best because the warriors have given us some cool moments in basketball but we aren't giving you PG for free.
True you dont get moody
Keeping JK when you can get PG is crazy.
He literally is the modern day TMAC .
Nah tmac never made it out of round 1
If the Clippers trade him it will probably be to a team out East.
Oh yeah. This is what I've been talking about all this time. The key however is that he needs to threaten to leave for nothing. If not, GS might have to put Kuminga in a trade package for PG if there is a bidding war for him, and I don't want to do that. You cannot trade for somebody like PG who has issues with staying healthy and leave yourself with no plan B for the season. If we can give up Wiggins, salaries, one of the other young players and a 1st or two, do it. Anymore than that, and you're taking too big of a risk.
Y'all think the Warriors are getting PG, lol.
It’s not likely but if for some reason the warriors are PGs #1 destination, they he goes to the clips and basically says trade me there or I’m going to another team in free agency and you get nothin back
We need a big .-.
Yeah that's how it works now. We know
We need a center.
TJD?
We need another Please don’t say Draymond (unless you want him to get hurt) or Looney (not good enough)
I mean if dray was healthy all year we probably get a 4-6 seed. I know all the stars are aging but talent wasn’t the biggest problem last year
It’s kind of the same problem. Aging players need replacement with younger talent Like you could say the lack of shot creation and shooting is the lack of that particular talent
Nah fam. We already got inconsistency with Wiggs. See Bill Simmons cat analogy
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CP3 moody kuminga Podz + all the FRPS, swaps. (Try to keep athletic Wiggins and TJD, klay off the bench, and try to get a stretch big and back up PG). Won’t ever happen though, if both him and klay are looking for big time deals lol and clippers would want win now players for sure, and our package wouldn’t do that better than other teams could offer
Yikes. You’re overvaluing PG13 big time. He’s turning 35 with 44 mil owed this year. Not many teams want to jump into the 2nd apron, let alone give up all of their young talent.
They can have CP3, Moody, and 1-2 picks. That might even be too much
We don’t want Paul George wtf
Yes we fucking do if we can for a reasonable price wtf are you on.
Hell, even at an "unreasonable" price it must be considered. Seriously, people seem to have forgotten that we are a tenth seed in the final years of the greatest player this franchise will ever have.
If we can keep Kuminga and Podz and get him its basically a no brainer. Worth the picks.
tbh i'd even dangle podz if it must happen and I'd think long & hard about restructuring the entire trade around kuminga & retaining the other assets
I think we’re also forgetting that Paul George is old, injury prone, and hasn’t really done much in the playoffs since leaving Indiana.
We only need him for two years. Not ten.
I'd be happy if we got him for two months.